>> rose: welcome to the program, it's the end of summer and we're looking back at some of over favorite guests from the past summerment tonight, a comedian, writer, actor an a director. an encore presentation of my conversation with louis c.k. >> it's about a bar run by a guy named horace and pete am a bar opened in 1916 in brooklyn by two brothers, horace and pete. sand they each had a son, one named horace, one named pete and they handed it to their sons hor is and pete. so the idea is that this bar has been run always by the same family, always owned in the family by a horace and a peelt. they have been brothers, they have been cousins but always one of each, a lynn yaj. a weird kind of a, like a royalty tee thing. so it has me and steve bush amy playing the current horace an

pete. >> louis c.k. for the hour next. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: tell me about horace and pete how did you come to this? >> well, i just-- i don't know, it's weird. i feel like i found this family in my head somewhere. i don't know. i got interested in doing a show that was like multicamera, the way a sitcom is shot but without

the audience, without the laugh track. and without the need for the constant jokes that pumping of jokes that sitcoms have. because what you are left with is that live feeling. it is kind of like a multicamera drama or something. anyway, i kind of got the idea of a show that felt like that. >> st a drama. >> i think so. or something, i don't know, it is a show, it's a story. but. >> what is the story. >> it's about a family. >> two guys in a bar. >> it's about a bar run by a guy named horace and a game named pete. it was opened in 1916 in brooklyn by two brothers, horace and pete. and they each had a son, one named horace, one named pete. they handed it to their sons horace and pete. so the idea is this bar has been run always by the same family, always owned in the family by a horace and a pete. sometimes they have been brothers, sometimes they have been cousins but it's always been one of each, like a lynn yaj. a weird kind of a royalty tee

thing. so it has me and steve bu scemi play the current horace and pete. alan alda plays uncle pete from the previous generation. >> rose: it is a new form for you two, isn't it. >> yeah, very different from other things i have done before. >> rose: why there? >> it just grabbed me. i just believed in it. as soon as i started writing it. i have had a lot of ideas for different kinds of shows but there is a test, that does it write, can you actually get out the script. i started writing it this summer and it just kept coming, episode after episode and i realized i'm writing something that is worth shooting. s i started to get it under works producing it. >> rose: what about the actor, when you called up alan alda and steve. >> steve bu scemi called me to do i a benefit for a firefighter thing. >> rose: you said i will do your benefit, but by the way. >> i happened to be writing it, i didn't know where its with going. i had him on the phone, we're chatting. we're friends. i said do you want to do a show.

a lot of things is timing, he had just come up with boardwalk empire. if i came up with this idea the quer before t wouldn't have existed. he had just come off this big show. i said what you are doing. he said nothing. i'm looking for stuff to do. i said do you want to do a series with me. and he said yeah, sure. i said we'll play brothers. he said yeah, okay. once i got that in my head, we are the two brothers, i started writing. i saw an article about eddie falco saying she is done with nurse jackie. she is one of my favorites. so i wrote her into it. i was at the emmys and she was sitting with fob next to her. so i just sat next to her and said i wrote a part for you in my new show. and she said okay. she read it, and she wanted it. the writing is what act-- attracts the people. if you don't write in a way that interests them, they won't be in it. >> rose: alan allah. >> he asked me for the part. because i wrote his part for joe pesci without declined it. and then i was looking for somebody and alan's agent suggested him. and i thought i don't think he is the right part for it. and she smartly said you should

get somebody who you wouldn't expect to do it. alan really wanted the part. and he is great, so i thought he'll figure it out. so that was just, that was a faith move, like you know, alan alda will find a way. >> you didn't roll this out with a lot of fan fare. >> no, no fanfare. made it the opposite, made it secret yz why that the. >> i found it interesting, the way shows are presented to the audience, they tell you as much as possible ahead of time. >> rose: right. >> because they want to-- they just want you to get to you look at it. they don't care how-- . >> rose: by looking at it, you assimilate information about it. >> they want you to see how it feels and who is in it. and what it sounds like. they want to show you as much as they can so if it's the kind of thing you like, you'll take a look am but to me that feels backwards. in other words, it is like tasting something before you eat it, you know. it's like, you want to discover a thing and go i don't know what this is. >> rose: so you want what, you

want. >> i wanted them to though nothing and have no thoughts, no idea, just know something new. >> rose: just jump in the river. >> yeah, just start watching. you should be a little disturbed when you start watching. i don't know what this is, you should have this tension, like i done know what it is going to happen. then when it is all done you are like wow, that was really great. >> rose: i will come back with the next episode. >> and when it's all done, with all ten of them, you think i am really glad i watched it. after the first episode you shouldn't think that was great. you should think i want to keep watching. i don't understand what i am watching yet, that is what i wanted them to el too. after two episodes i want them to think i still don't know what i am much whatting but i'm curious. then after the third episode, i think after that show you go okay, i really like this. now i want to be watching it. and then when you get to ten, you go wow, you should say wow. but the thing is, tv costs so much money to make, they need you-- they want you to say wow i

want to see that before you see it. i think that's backwards. you should start with nothing and get to wow. >> rose: how do they pay for it? >> they have to pay for it through an intent to watch, that is what they call that. they track the show. there is an intent to watch. or they hire people to be in the show that they think will-- . >> rose: i have a sense that you want to own stuff you do. >> only because then i can do it-- then i don't have to-- you know when you ask somebody to fund something, you are asking them to take a risk with you. i into you that horace and pete was going to be such a strange road and i would do things so counterintuitively. i didn't want to risk other people-- i didn't want to risk other people's money. i didn't think that was right. i didn't want to go to people and say this was a success and then take them down the road. >> rose: are you convinced this is a success. >> yeah. >> rose: because you said it is the best thing you have ever done. >> my favorite thing. i think it is the best work i have done yet. i think so. >> rose: but did you believe it would be a success? >> i disn know either way. i didn't think of it that way.

>> rose: do you care? >> yeah, i like people to see it i like tons of people to see it. i would. an also i would like to be able to do a show like this again. so if we can train the audience into this-- . >> rose: what makes it unique. you can only get it through your website. >> that's right. yeah. you have to go to my website and buy it. >> rose: you created a new model to deliver a thing. >> i don't know, i think shall it-- i don't know if it will work for other people. i know how to make tv from nothing. >> rose: right. >> i know how to do all of it. and then distribute it. >> rose: how do you know? >> well, i know how to produce television. i know how to-- i have a company. obviously it's not just me, i people working with me. i know how to direct and write and produce and edit. i know how to put the thing out. and then how to make-- my website was really created to sell tickets to my shows. and a specials i did. >> rose: that is not the part of you wanting to own stuff and you liking to be in charge of the way you do things. you cut out the middlemen.

>> yeah. >> rose: you wanted it to be with you. >> yeah, i like that part. i like that part. >> rose: you do. >> yeah. it's fun. it's control and it-- . >> rose: it is control and also you direct. >> i think those one thing people liked, one of the things they liked about horace and pete was they got an email from me that i sent to them saying the next episode is ready. and then they went to my website it was very bespoke, they went to my website and watched it. there was nothing else going on. and they paid me their bit of money for each episode. and i went and made more. >> rose: so you self-financed it. >> yeah, i paid for everything, yeah, yeah. well, what's money for. that is what money is for. >> rose: to spend on things you want to do. >> exactly. to me it's more interesting to do that than to have it stored up somewhere, sitting and accruing interest. i can do that tomorrow, you know. >> rose: exactly. >> if you leave money for any reason, you go-- i can go on the road so far. some day. you can always get check mated. you always have to know at some point one or two things could go

wrong and suddenly are you really screwed. it's-- but everybody lives that way. >> rose: you created this. what is the creation prosession for you? >> i mean you decided that this bar. >> yeah. >> rose: and you loved the idea and the drama. >> so i thought about a family and they own a place together which means people work and live in the same place. i mean in other words, you go, you live with people and then you work with them. and then you can't escape them which is what family feels like. family is something you can't escape. a relationship you can't get out of, this is. >> rose: this is not cheers. >> no, no, not at all. it looks like it, it is a soundoff for two minutes and then even with the sound off jeez, that's not cheers at all. it's very-- it gets very down. it is funny in moments. it's very surprising and startling in moments. but yeah, so the creative process is like you kreelt the people and the world, and then if it writes, you sit down and

write, and it just flowed. i believed in the people. they felt real to me. >> rose: it just poured out, episode by >> yeah. and some things come out that way and this did too. every episode i would sit down and just be writing. i put the people in the rooms in my head and i have them talk to each other. and it's like i'm hearing it and quickly copying it like a citizennographer or court reporter. is that what a court person, that is what it feels like. and then when it's over i stop and i go oh my god, that was crazy. and then i read it and i go it's pretty good. rose: but how much writing do you do? i mean is it pretty much a string of consciousness when you do it or hammer it. >> a lot of it happens ahead of time. like that's when i get an episode written, when i sit down and write it. before i write it, i walk around driving myself crazy thinking about it. i do all the carving up here. and i know what's going to happen. i think about what it means in

each interaction and what direction it's going to go. i think about all of that for a long time, like being pregnant. and finally a regurgitate it on to the page. and after that, maybe right before we shoot, i would do a rehearsal, for a whole day we rehearse the show over and over again. and then i look at it and go maybe there are a few things, i cope the dialogue all the same, there is an integrity like how you first wrote it but i might cut or add things. i don't change the lines inside. i think that feels like tampering. >> rose: how is it different than writing standup? >> well, standup i don't sit down and write it. just go on stage. >> rose: you have to think about what are you going to say. >> but i just write one word on a piece of paper about the subject, just to remind myself t i work it out drk dsh it's the spoken word. it's better not to prepare in standup. it's better to let the first audience that tell the story to but, they pull it out of you, by the way they listen. >> rose: so you listen to them and you may add to it. >> yeah, they will tell you how

interesting it is. >> rose: is that what you are doing, working on another standup routine. >> yeah. >> rose: and the small clubs teach you. >> what is working and what isn't. >> rose: what works and does not. >> that's right. >> rose: do you find a lot of stuff you think might work but doesn't work. >> yeah, but you keep trying it. >> rose: with a different audience. >> you have to have-- you got to know a little bit more than them. in you just show them what they want to see, there is something-- a very satisfying and boring about that. an audience will come and see mething they didn't expect to like, to me that's real bold. >> rose: a great goal. >> that is what you want. have. >> rose: have them like something. >> they never thought they would like. they go that's so great and i never expected that to be something i liked. >> rose: tell me about the episode, episode seven i think it was. about a transgender. >> yeah. >> rose: dialogue. the dialogue is fabulous. >> thank you. >> rose: you know, you wrote it. >> yeah, well. >> rose: tell me about it.

>> well, that-- . >> rose: any reason not to tell me. >> no, i'm just trying to figure what to say about it. when i wrote that, i didn't expect that to happen in that story. to me that story was about-- it was about horace confesses something to her first about his life, something very shocking. >> rose: right. >> an to me that is what that scene was about. initially. that is why i wrote the scene. because they have a one-night stand, so they have an intimacy, an immediate intimacy and then the next morning they don't want to look at each other. which is how people sometimes feel in the morning. >> rose: right, yes. >> but he invites her to sit down and have some eggs. she says i don't want to be here. he says i don't want you here. so they have a first date with each other because they both know that they don't want anything, so they don't want to see each other again. >> rose: so they can be more truthful. >> that is what it is, like more truthful with someone than with someone they have a future with. so she asked horace about his

life and he has a very shocking detail about his life. and he just goes ahead and tells her. because it was easy to tell her. and to me that is what i sat down to white. and then-- to write. and then i had her tell a joke. he says you are not going to be able to air this, but he says you have a nice-- and she says yeah, i blsh blsh with my used to be. and i just have her tell that joke. you won't be able to use that but she-- she makes this joke. and he laughs. and then i felt like i was in the room with them. and i felt like, what if she is not kidding. what if she is kidding but she wants to toy with him more on the subject. and then i just, they just-- and i just started to trade lines down this road. that he finds himself in this situation. and then she's interested in talking about this. >> rose: and he wants to know who has he slept with. >> did he sleep with someone without used to be a man. and she says well, if i was

transgender, wouldn't that mean i am a woman? aren't we all saying that when someone becomes trans, transgender, i have pulled 50/50 which one you are supposed to say. >> rose: right. >> that is a woman. caitlyn jenner is a woman now. >> rose: right. >> with all the rights of a woman and here aye, she's a woman. and it's not polite to say that is bruce jenner in a dress or bruce jenner who got an operation,. >> rose: caitlyn jenner. >> a woman. so caitlyn jenner sleeps with a man, does she have to tell him i used to be bruce jenner. i think that's a really interesting, unresolved, for the average person without doesn't think about this kind of stuff all the time, which is what horace is. >> rose: yeah. >> in the show, that is who i am playing. a guy who has just got a my optic view. that is a really uncharted

wilderness. so i put him in that wilderness with somebody who has a little bit more, although she-- i don't know in the end, i don't know if she is transgender or not, the character. i still don't know. i don't know. i don't know, horace doesn't know. >> rose: but she says to him. >> what if i was. >> rose: she says to him at the end, you know, i'm a woman. you slept with a woman. >> right, and he goes one more time, who always was one. and she goes-- so you still don't know, still don't know. and i also think that horace is excited by the ambiguity. >> rose: he asked her out. >> yeah, elics it. i think horace is a little bit turned on by not knowing what or who,. >> rose: whether he slept with a woman or a man. >> especially by her command of the-- being able to stand on that shaky line. shetion's exciting him by toying with him. that is what happened in the scene. but i'm telling you all this from having watched it, not from having-- when i wrote it, i

didn't know what was going on. >> rose: that is amazing, you didn't have any idea. >> i didn't, then what would he say, and then says it, and then what would she say, she says it and i'm oh my god, that's so crazy he would say this, horace would ask this question. and then they just sort of talked in my head and i wrote it down. that is what it felt like. it doesn't always feel that way. he's a, you know, nothing, he's just a nothing guy. he is a guy who can't-- he has no agency. like he doesn't have a thrurs in life. you know, the greatest generation and all those guys. >> rose: right, right. >> even the vietnam veterans and the baby boomers, they all have these terrific names to their generations. and they had, they either had to overcome something or they had to create something. but then our guys, i was called generation x, like a nothing. and so a lot of us, we didn't want to be cruel like our parents were. or we didn't want to hit our

kids. so we didn't know what to do. a lot of us. i feel like, you knowk i'm a good parent and i'm an intended parent. i have sort of like an idea of what it means to be a citizen, or whatever. but i thought it was more interesting to write a guy who doesn't know what the hell to do and doesn't know even how to care about it. but the show is really about-- . >> rose: you're not writing yourself, clearly. >> there are parts of me in horace. >> rose: which parts? >> you know, he's a little bit slow, and a bit of a schlub. that is always me. >> rose: do you think of yourself that way at all. >> yeah, sure. >> rose: do you really? >> yeah, in life, i'm-- . >> rose: why? >> a guy, my gut is hanging out of my t-shirt half the time. >> rose: that's it. >> and i will put ice cream on my dhes like tony soprano an eat and watch shark tank. >> rose: this is just fastidiousness. >> yeah, well, that is who everybody is. i'm an ordinary guy. horace is ordinary. >> rose: you really think of yourself as an ordinary guy.

>> sure, yeah. hell yeah. >> rose: with all the creativity you have expressed to all of us. >> that is my-- . >> rose: the part to reach inside the human experience and-- you know, tell a story. >> that is because i'm an ordinary guy that i think i can tell a story about an ordinary guy. >> rose: you have to be one. you can't. >> but you love language too. >> yeah, i do. >> rose: i know you do. >> yeah. >> rose: i was laughing outloud reegd the whole thing about amazing. >> yeah, yeah. >> rose: your use of the word amazing. what are you going to do, a really amazing story. >> you have to have some sense of turning the volume up and down. >> rose: that's a perfect way to express it. >> you can't just go for the top every time. >> rose: there is a quote from gary shanked ling, the world is too noisy and distractly to ultimately survive. everyone has to shut the-- it be up. monks set themselves on fire to make this point, just consider it, what does that quote mean to you. >> gary wrote that to me in an

email. and it was, he wrote that to me a few weeks before he died. >> rose: just a few weeks. >> yeah, man a couple of weeks before he died. >> rose: unexpectedly. >> he was a great friend. and he was the kind of guy i could talk to him for hours. and then we never had enough time. like we talked for four hours and my mouth would get all dry talking to gary and i would get a headache because i didn't want to drink water or do anything to stop talking to him. and then it would be over, you know. and we would have to part company. >> rose: i always thought about him. he came to my show. i always thought about him as god, i just wish he was doing something right now. >> yeah, yeah. >> rose: you know. he was that good. >> he was one of the best ever. >> rose: i know. >> one of the greats. >> rose: and why the hell is he, you would ask yourself. >> yeah. well, he gave a lot. he gave a lot of great standup and his series, a lot of tv has been built on the back of that. >> rose: exactly right. >> i a lot of people don't remember that. >> rose: he was terrific when

he. >> that's right, i showed the episode of larry sanders to my 14 year old daughter after he died and she loved it. and it was fresh. and she watches 30 rock and new shows. an this show is right up against it, and it begat them. >> your role in this is very much of a guy who listens, who is a listener. >> horace is very quiet. part of that is because i wanted-- they want to have a lot of-- also look at the cast. steve and allen and jessica lang, these are all better, these people are all better than me. they are all better actors than me. >> you are right about that. >> yeah, for sure. i wanted to give them a flat form and be there as a surrounding board. >> you have been doing acting, are you surprised. you seem like a natural. >> i mean i try, i hope i am. i know i own a lot of terrible

moment on screen that i can't take back including on this show. because i'm a lit of a-- i'm stiff, i'm not really-- towards the end of horace and pete, the feelings about the show were so real to me i really felt like pete was my brother. and so when hard things happened to pete, i got very upset. and you created it. >> that is the amazing thing. you created horace. you created pete. you created the other character. >> like i was in the family. >> like you were there. >> when the show, when we shot the last episode, i was very-- i couldn't, it took me awhile to recover from it. i disn have to act. i didn't have to conjure something from my past or figure out how to get there. i was just very up sed for real. and all of us, we traded emails me and alan and eddie and steve, traded emails. >> rose: saying what. >> saying we are in withdrawal and that we were upset. it was hard to walk away from the show.

and it was hard how it ended. >> rose: does it have to end. >> no, not necessarily, no. but about i mean the season is over. >> rose: i know the season is. >> the story that we told is over. it was a ten part-- it's like a ten act play. that is what horace and pete is. more like a ten act play than like a series. see the thing with a series, when you write series television, you have to keep everything in tact all the time. you have to keep all the balls in the air. so you can't really have anything big happen or ery show has to reset, you't know. tv has this thing where it shows up at your house like a vacuum cleaner salesmen and makes a mess on the floor but they have to clean it up before they leave. tv is supposed to ef loo you the way it found you, that way you want to watch it the next week forever. it is a perp teuity thing. but so the idea of this show was to write something where every week it will take a piece out of you. it is going to leave you a little bit broken. and will you go like how the hell are they going to keep doing this. we don't have to keep doing it.

i didn't have to make more than three if i didn't want to. >> rose: what is the level of satisfaction. level of satisfaction from this compared to the other stuff you do. >> can you even judge it, weigh it. >> no, i can't because this was so personal and it felt so real to me. and it was so satisfying. >> rose: and a new direction too. >> yeah, brand new thing. the thing that is so fun, is to learn a thing you have never done before and then do it really well. body had.had.one a show like nobody had made a show. it was closer to saturday night live than to a sitcom because we had to throw it together and have it up on the site. we shot it wednesday and thursday. and had it up on the site saturday morning. so it was a very quick-- . >> rose: all the episodes had been written. >> they have been written but we did things about current events because it was a bar. people in bars talk about what is going on in the news. if they could talk about with was actually in the news, that is why we shot it so close to

the air date. but nobody had figured out how to do that. and i invented a way to direct the show that we could get it up quicker. >> rose: what was that. >> this color coding with the cameras and stuff. a thing that was tricky to figure out am but it was also fun, you know. >> rose: here is what i hear. you write standup the best. acting and getting-- not only get reviews but also more anmore roles. you're now a director. >> yeah. >> rose: you are now a producer. >> yeah. >> rose: you mounted this whole thing. >> yeah. >> rose: i mean do you come to some sense, i can pretty much do whatever i want to? >> there are a million things i can't do yet but thank god, you know. you want to keep trying, you want to get-- it's like if you are in the army, a friend of mine was in the army back in the '80s. late '80s. and so he just took his sergeant and go let's go to jump school. let's all go to jump school and they go for-- he was a, what do you call it, a reserve. so-his weekends instead of

sitting around playing ping pongk let's go to jump school. and then they got a patch for jumping. they go let's go to medic school. so they all got rated as medics and they got this big bunch of pamps, skills packing his head with. unfortunately war broke outnd weigh was sent right to shall-- look at the skills you have. we need you. >> exactly. so he had to do all this stuff. but it is like being a boy scout. and all of a sudden you can do that. you know like in, what's the movie, matrix. >> yeah. >> when there is a helicopter, and he says to her do he know how to play helicopter and she goes wait a minute, load the program. now i do. well, anyone can do that. it just takes longer. you just load a program. so now i know how to create a multicamera drama and mount it the same week that i shot it. and how to direct many great actors which i had never done before. >> rose: exactly. i rest my case. >> yeah. >> rose: never did it.

>> never did it. >> rose: and didn't know what was good, bad. >> yeah. so yeah, you just open yourself to the thing and go i have done other things. >> rose: i'm tbing to go down this. >> well, you start to get is this. instead of being able to say i've done this before. you say to yourself, i haven't done this before but i have done other things i haven't done before, before. is and it came out okay. so i'm not afraid of this. and also if this doesn't go well, what's the big deal. >> rose: what is going to happen. >> exactly. the thing that you learn the most that will help you do things you can't do yet is how to recover from failure. if you can recover from things not going well, then the work that happens is this is going to be a total wreck but i know how to recover. i know how to be okay after i wasn't. >> rose: somebody once said to me don't worry about it, because you always have your talent. >> tharytd. yeah. you always find something else to do. that is another thing by getting all these different skills. if i wash out in every possible way, i can go write for

somebody's sitcom, you know, quietly. i can just write. >> rose: let's look at the other side. you are doing everything and you are doing all of them well. what is it building to? >> in the end-- . >> rose: what journey is it? >> it's one show at a time and one-story at a time so i'm not trying to be some like guy who can do all of these things. i really wanted to tell this story about horace and pete and his family. and this is how to do it, so let's learn how to do it. >> rose: this is learning on the job. >> that's right. so what it is building towards, whatever stories i come up with that i want to tell. >> rose: is directing this different from directing louis. >> so different, yeah. cuz it was indoors, in the studio all day. >> and working with actors, that is what directing is. >> rose: that's right. louis was single camera which means that you shoot little pieces. >> right. >> and then you fill them together through the magic of

editing. this thing we shot like 20 pages without stopping. we did it like a play. we let people feel like they were at a play performance. so we didn't, so it was about rehearsing and preparing. and then just letting it happen, that's a completely different kind of direction. >> rose: i bet you, all of these experiences have show said to you why done i try a broadway play. >> yeah, i would love to do that. i have. i have to write it though. if i write a play, then i will definitely try to go make it, yeah. >> rose: is writing in the end what you are, a writer? >> i think it's probably what i am best at. the standup, i'm a comedian since i was 18. and i never stopped being one. >> rose: you said i didn't get good until i was in my 40st. >> that's how long it takes. it takes a good 30 years to get good at it. so yeah, i only got good at it recently. . >> rose: you are now 47. >> i been about five years that have i been worth watching,

yeah, i think so. that is the thing. i can claim i put in my years withstandup. and i put in the work and i made the sacrifice. a lot of hard years. and that's why i can do it now. writing would be second, i have been writing for about-- . >> rose: standup then writing, then acting. >> directing. i think acting is the last. if i had to drop one, it would be acting. >> why. >> rose: because i'm not the best at it it you know. and i'm not great at it. i can do it. i can do it. i know how to do it. i love doing it, it's super fun. if are you good, you know how to do it but you're not the best at it. >> i'm not the best at it and i haven't put as much of a commitment into it. you got to do one thing all the time to be great at it. that's why i'm going on the road for a year and clearing the decks. i'm not doing any productions because to be-- i haven't been as good as standup as i was in like 2008, 10. >> rose: did that eat at you? >> yeah, it bothered me because i still love it. >> rose: if i knew how good i

was and knew i wasn't performing that well. >> it is an awful performing. feel like i'm betraying the audience and also i'm betraying the thing i'm doing. i did three years, four years where all i dids with standup. and i was going on tour and make a special. and i wasn't doing anything else. and i think that's the best i ever was, between my 2011 and now, i put out a few specials that i am very proud of. and i did my best. but i-- i would have been better if i wasn't making television while i did those specials. >> rose: did you get to the point where you knew you were the best at standup anywhere period? >> no, i mean that's subjective. some people hate what i do. they don't like it. it's not their thing, you know. plentsee of people. it depends on who you say-- i am some people's favorite comedian and i think i am as good as doing it like in terms of like i'm as good as anybody. >> you can't compare standup, can you. >> i done think so. i think that is as hard as comparing people.

certainly artwork isn't quawl taitive. >> i know a ton about standup. and i know how to do it. >> by watching it and doing it over and over and over again. have i been on stage, i don't know, some millions of times probably in my life. it's a constant, constant thing. and if i don't do it for like two weeks, when i go back, i'm not as good again. you have to gear up. >> rose: other than being a father. >> yeah. >> rose: are you happiest. >> it's hard to say. i do love-- i love being on stage. i love shooting things. i love being on a set and shooting. i love the feeling of exhaustion at the end of a long a lot of work. and feeling like walking away, there are days i walked away from horace and pete. i used to walk home every day. and i would go damn, that was a homerun today. i fell like i hit a homerun. that was a good feeling. i'm happy sometimes when i'm out on a beach or in the water, you know. or out in nature.

i don't know, those are hard to compare. those are all big happies. being a dad is the best. >> rose: i think it was "the new yorker" who said comedians are popular. >> yeah, maybe. i guess we talk like other people. we don't talk like "the new yorker." >> rose: you don't talk down to them. >> no, we talk like other people. >> rose: that's part of it, so they identify. >> i think so, yeah. >> rose: they identify with you. >> yes, yeah, that's the way i learned it, just from talking. when i'm able to be a little more social, i come up with more material. >> rose: what makes you laugh is what makes you laugh what makes the audience laugh? >> yeah, sometimes. but i'm working really hard for their laughs so i'm usually not laughing. >> rose: is that it, you are working. >> yeah, it's hard work. >> rose: this is hard work. i'm fun as hell but when they laugh, and when you know it's so genuine, that is payoff time. >> oh yeah, i love that feeling, sure. >> rose: and it makes you better. >> sure. >> rose: to feel it. >> yeah. >> rose: what does-- mean. >> it's a new word. >> rose: what is it? >> i don't know.

i guess people that talking about things that make you go oh my god, that's cringing, right. >> rose: i think that is what they mean. >> a cringe is a repelling way from something. it's like an area you don't want to think about. i don't want to think about that. to me it's fun to take a deep breathe, which is the opposite of a cringe, and walk in there. >> rose: that's exactly right. >> and see what is in there. >> rose: that is the essence of you. >> i think so. >> rose: it really is. >> look, if you can make people take a whole zone of their thinking that they are scared of, and you can make them take a breathe and go in there, and then have a good time, i think that's positive. >> rose: i think gq said there nothing, nothing he can't and won't demystify or desentsmentize, take the sent am out of it. >> yeah, i think that is the worth trying to do.

yeah, man. >> rose: comedy makes you think about things in a different way. >> yeah. comedy can make-- . >> rose: think about things in a different way. >> yeah, sure. >> rose: just as we are talking about. >> i think so. i think it is the compact of things always made is we want to be able to laugh about stuff that is upsetting us. part of it. and then everybody gets up sed sometimes. and they all go how could we make such jokes. this is a terrible thing. but in the end, we always choose the humor. that is why comedy is always stayed in there. once in a while everybody says this is wrong to talk about these things. and you shouldn't joke about bad things or hurting things. and we all clang a bell because that's part of the process. i accept that, that is okay that people do that because it's part of it. you say that to yourself once in awhile because it lets you off the hook. i tweet it to everybody that i thought that joke was inappropriate. and then later you can laugh at a joke that is inappropriate. that way you get to have it both ways. >> rose: are there places you won't go, will not go?

>> only if it's not funny or it's boring. >> rose: but that's it. >> or if someone else has been there heavily then i won't go there usually because it's boring. yeah, it's only if its' boring. i remember saying one time that saying something is too terrible to joke about, is like saying that a di size is too terrible to try to cure it i mean that's what you do with awful things. you joke about them, that's how you get through it it's how you survive life. >> rose: that's the only way you can talk about. >> to say that's so terrible, i can't talk about it, that is totally counterintuitive. if it is that awful, you better start jokek about it. >> rose: where is truth in comedy? >> it's not always there. i think lying is effective way to get laughs. lying is like magic. >> rose: is lying. >> there are so many lies. >> rose: if it takes lying, then let's lie. >> there are so many lies in my act.

i have so many stories that i really convinced them that it's true and that's why they are laughing. like this really happened, man. and that makes them laugh because i'm sharing something. but it's riddled with lying s. and in the details, in the where i say it happened, how many of each thing. i lie all the time just to make stories interesting. you know. up all the numbers. all the stats in a joke. forget it, man. >> i'm not sure i'm disappointed in this or not. you wouldn't want to hear the honest version of my ak t would be really bland. >> rose: it makes it more powerful, more interesting, more compelling, more surprising and exciting. >> yeah, more funnier. >> rose: are you surprised that jokes, where does it start, is it just an idea, i wonder if? >> uh-huh, yeah, or like a moment, jokes have different forms. there are observations. like have i this thing that happened. or this is what people are like.

or an observed story. so sometimes this thing will happen and i go that's a bit. sometimes stuff has been in my head for years before i recognize why have i never talked about this on the stage. >> rose: give me an example of that. >> like there is a loop i have been doing about when you are in an email fight and you write an email, you know, when are you emailing back and forth. which is really those long emails where you say in june when i told you that i had this issue, and you promised to be-- you know, and you work on the email for a long time like are you beethoven and are you going deaf. and then you send it to a friend and say what do you think. and this is a new phenomenon. then they do a draft. email and they tell you i would take this out. cuz it seemed a little excessive. then you send it to somebody else who puts that back in, and you work on it for a long time with all this collaboration. and then you send it, and then you realize you left the

sentence at the top that says this is the latest draft, what do you think. and i have done that before and have i had that humiliation. >> rose: yes. >> of letting the person you are in a real fight with know that you have writers, you have a team of people working on the email. anyway, that has happened to me a number of times. only about a week ago i thought jesus, i don't know why i haven't told that story on stage. >> rose: and now you will. >> i have been. i have been doing it on stage and it's kilting. >> rose: people love it. >> yeah, yeah. >> rose: everybody does it, they can identify. >> they can i found out that they have, by telling the story. >> rose: but now, take that, that told story. how are you shaping it and changing it and refining it and sculpting it. >> okay, so there a bunch of places that work on it, there is this thing about when i say email fight, what is difference between a text foot, a text fight is screw you, i hate you, i hate you too, that is texting. that is how you fight, the email laugh the first is when i wrote

you in june and show people just know what that means. and i described all that stuff. so all the little details will get bigger and bigger. and i will find more and more little things in it. >> rose: are you not going to tell me what are you going to do for another series much louis, you don't know yet. >> i don't know. i really don't. >> rose: what will make the difference again? >> if i find if i crash into it is the thing i'm really dieing to do again. i have to be wanting to do it. i didn't want to make a show because there is a show and i have to keep doing it. that is not a great reason to make a show. >> rose: especially if you are you. >> yeah, i think some of i think i can't honestly keep making episodes of that show just because it was doing well and it's there. i did it as long as i could because i was very gratedful to the people that gave me the show. because i'm not the the only person. i'm like the center of all these people. >> and i'm in here. so all these people that i work for, that gave me the shot, i wanted to pay them off as long as i could. and once we were getting emmys and stuff, that means a lot to them. so i note that as long as i

could. and all the people that work for me, that make a living working on my show. >> right. >> it was a very hard to tell them you're all fieferred and tell all these people i quit. that's very hard to do. that is a lot of pressure. >> and how did you get up the nerve to do it. >> i didn't have a choice. i didn't it when i finally was like i can't do this. so and also because i still work for these guys. i make a bunch, i make an exact show. >> exactly. >> these people all work with me now on horace and pete and work elsewhere. in between each thing there is a like a-- what? where did it go. >> rose: would you have any interest in building a kind of creative factory. >> it's kind of what my company is. >> i know, exactly what it is. >> we make a lot of stuff. we make an animated show now with albert brooks. we make pamela avalon's show, better things. zack's show baskets, a big hit and a show on amazon. so we make a lot of shows. >> rose: politics.

>> yeah. >> rose: done all trump. >> oh, jesus clies. oh, god. >> rose: why did you launch into that? >> that was really drum. >> rose: you think he's a threat to your country. >> yeah, god. >> rose: you went pretty far, didn't you. >> yeah, i did. that was a lot. that was a lot. that was so much. i said so much. >> rose: you really did. >> uh-huh. never has anyone said so much about something of which they know so little. >> rose: did you want to real it back, or you don't care. >> i mean t is what it is, you say it and you live with it. after you say it. i mean i was like oh boy, after i wrote it. i mean the secretary after i sent it i was like,. >> rose: did you really? >> my daughter, i told my daughter, my ten year old. i didn't read it you about i toll her basically what it was. >> rose: you compared him to. >> they are going to kill you on this, they are-- you are going to get-- you're going to get killed on this. >> rose: your ten year old

daughter. >> i said are you never going to stop bugging you. they have. >> rose: and i'm bringing it up. >> it's fine, it's all right. i think the thing especially presidential politics, 74 years. we have this obsession. >> it's a discussion, it's very important. it's like a family thing. it's like a family thing. it's like a family decision, the way people take it. it's very personal. it's like a member of your-- it's like if you had an election in your family, if are you in a family that's like living as a family, and you had an election, if mom or dad going to be in charge for the next four years, or is our brother going to take dad's spot, you know, which is what it felt like to me when clinton won it. it felt like other brother tok over for dad, you know. >> rose: he was one of us. >> or maybe three of your siblings brought some woman that you don't know to the house and said is we're going to replace mom with her. and we have the votes to do it. and you go what?

the amount of anger and passion that an election in your family would have. >> rose: that is what will doing. >> that is what it is like. it is very emotional it is not a rational thing. it's not based on, you know, picking somebody to do a job. it's based on how we all feel and what we want to say to the rest of the world. and what we're afraid of and you know what i mean. it's a big deal. so i'm an american citizen. >> rose: yes, you are. congratulations. >> so whoever is president affects my life like it does everybody else's. it was always a personal thing and a personal right. but your vote also reflects everybody else. so it is a really tricky thing. and i think the thing about american politics is that it's always going to be a big messy fight. that is what democracy is. like people would feel more united and at peace if we were all being oppressed by one, you know, government. then everybody gets along better. but when we are all trying to decide and all very different from each other it's a big ugly

difficult fight. >> rose: democracy is ugly. >> it's really, really painful. >> rose: things have gotten really ugly this year. >> yeah, i think we always say that. but i think that's true, this one is really, really-- this one, there is a lot of pain involved. and i was really, i was feeling a lot of fear. and i wrote my email saying horace and pete's episode, whatever it was that week, i think it was six, is ready for downloads. enjoy. i got to go back to sleep. i was actually in bed. i was going to go back to sleep, because my kids are coming in a few hours. and i wanted a little nap. and then i wrote ps, all i meant to write was stop with the trump, just stop it. it's not funny any more. that saul i was going to write. i sat there and looked at it and say well kus this, and the thing is this, and this, and this and this. and i wrote this mall ig nant tumor of a thing. this wasp nest of thought. and i sent it to my mom.

she said sure. send it. >> rose: you send it to her. >> she said go ahead and send it i hate to put her on the-- spot but she said sure. >> rose: she said sure. >> and i was like, and there is part of me. >> rose: was this late at night. >> it was saturday morning. and so i sent it. and it was-- it's a very weird thing because i'm sending it to just people on my email subscription list, a little select growp of people. but then it is on twitter in seconds and then it's in-- i knew that more people would read it than who i sent it to. and i figured a few people would go oh, this guy is a jerk. and i knew that ever whatever. let's just see what happens. and then it is in every news publication in the world. >> rose: yes. >> and the more it grew, the more i was like oh god dam it, what did i-- why did i do this to myself. like this is, this is so dumb. and then all these things that i

kind of just thought, they're just feelings i had. and they were some of them contradicted each other. some of them were like jeez, i don't know this. jeez, i don't know. this but then all of a sudden there is just this weight and this spice being put on the thing. and these words are being tested. and none of them hold up. because it's just one guy talking like with a beer in his hand. it's just a guy, you know what i mean, it's just my opinion at the moment about the election. and it was based on some big feelings. and i stand by some of it. >> rose: you compared him to hitler. >> yeah, yeah, sure, not hitler when he was done, you know, i mean that's-- that's not. >> rose: when he was coming up. and how he seemed. >> in his rookie years. >> rose: and you said what. >> yeah, exactly. i guess i feel like there is a similar dynamic. yeah. i guess so. i guess i feel that way. and i did then, and i-- you know. >> rose: you vnlt changed. >> no, i think that-- i think it's a scaree-- scary time.

and i don't think you can-- every time somebody terrible comes along, and then we kill them, and then we say there will never be another one of those. and we say that guy was from another planet, that wasn't a human being. humans don't make people like that he came from an egg. that guy was hatched from an egg. and so as long as we done hatch people from eggs, we won't have any of those. well no, he had a mommy and he had a daddy and he was a baby. and he played. >> rose: he went to school. >> he went to school, he had friends. you know, all-- whoever i am describing, he has done all these things, he has been nurtured by parents. he's been a good friend to somebody somewhere. he has listened to ssh who needed to be listened to and then this thing goes and you will all these terrible things that he did that happened through him, you know what i mean. so i don't know. i don't know that i would, if i had it to do over again say all that been trump again. look, i think trump is more for my world than he is from

politics. is he my-- he's one of us. he's a showbiz guy. >> rose: an entertainer. >> he is an entertainer so i feel like we're responsible for him. >> rose: i hear this making its way into your routine. >> i done think. so i think i have got to-- i think i said everything i need to say about donald trump. jesus clies. yeah, i don't know. here's where i-- i felt a little bit bad because a lot of people got mad at me and they said just shut up. just shut your mouth. don't tell me, you know, a lot of times. >> rose: people don't know what to think, i'm not telling anybody what to think, i'm expressing myself during an election year. but i did come into their lives through the funny ha ha door. and then i took a big political serious-- on their table. so i get being irritated. i get it. i get it i get why people would be irritated with my having written that it is not what i do

best. it's not what i am known for. it's not what i am asked about. you know what i mean? if you invitedded somebody to your house because you knew they were funny and fun ang they said all of this stuff, you would be like what are you doing to me. i get why people got irritated. it's interesting to me. a lot of liberals got mad because i suggested that maybe conservatives or liberals have equal value. and that they should each have a shot at running government. >> right. >> rose: i. >> that's just the way i was raised. i came from mexico. when i was a little kid i came to mexico and i remember coming to america and discovering it as a little boy from another country. and the idea of democracy and free speech were-- was an incredible thing to me. still, i look at it with wide open eyes. i'm very ynt that way. -- innocent that way. and the way i look at the world is i feel a certain way about how the country should be run. but not everybody feels the way i do. so when there is enough of me to push the election over to our side, we get a president for awhile. but the other side who feels differently than i do, they

should get equal shot. because it's not all my country. it's a lot of people's country. you know what i mean. >> rose: of course i do. >> so democracy shouldn't, some people think democracy means i always get things the way i want them. i don't look at it that way. democracy means sometimes i'm really frustrated with the way the government works. then i know it's working right. that is the way i look at it. and i'm in my 40st. and so to me obama is a liberal, a liberal president. to some people he's a huge conservative t depends how you look at it. everybody looks at it differently. but i don't think trump is any of these things. i think trump is a guy who will dismantle the actual process. that is the only reason i said some thing. i am not known for making political statements. i have never done this before. there is no shall-- have i no track record of running my mouth politically. >> rose: will you do it again. >> no, i probably won't. but the reason i did in this case was because this isn't about i believe in the liberal cause and i want a liberal. it was because this guy feels like he could chuck it all away.

and he is even saying he wants to. he is saying he wants to make it that you can sue people for writing something you didn't like, you know, it's insane. so anyway. i shouldn't have said even what i said now but-- . >> rose: but you did. >> i shuntd have shall-- i'm sorry. i apologize. >> rose: you don't mean that. >> no, not at all, no. >> rose: can i just talk about family for a moment. >> sure. >> rose: the kids are older now. do they laugh at you. >> yeah, they do. we laugh together, you know, we out all kinds of stuff andlk laugh about life together. she reads a lot. she is a very intelligent kid. and she's very curious and thoughtful. so we have a lot to talk about. it's great. it's the greatest part of life. >> rose: talking to your kids. >> oh yeah, the thing about being with your kids, you don't have to be doing anything. you could be at the dmv or waiting in line at the grocery store and having a good time. >> rose: have they seen horace

and pete. >> my oldest came to the taping of the last episode and it was really something to have her there. they are bored by what i do. which is probably a good thing. they have their own tv that they watch. and sometimes i will be like hey, there san episode of my show that is like appropriate. and they are like rather watch, you know, portlandia. or gravity falls. toesbergers. very popular show with them. >> rose: my last question is, there was a time in which you weren't going to do another episode of louis. i think it may have been between 3, 4 and a. >> i took a break. >> rose: and then all of a sudden you have a thought. >> yeah. >> rose: and it seizes you. >> right. >> rose: and so all of a sudden you have another series. >> that's right. >> rose: so what might happen having to do with louis or anything else, some idea, just grabs you. >> then i have got to do it. no matter what it takes. >> rose: thank you.

>> thajs, charlie, pleasure. same here, always. always. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose. commodity. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

this is "nightly business re with tyler mathisen and sue herera. >> sizzler. august ends on a down note as the s&p has its first negative month since february. so, what does september hold? new heights. how one of the largest real leg up on the competitio venture. the hot new area attracting silicon money. ll that and more on august 31th. good evening and welcome. tyler mathisen is off. august went out with a thud. stocks closed out the month lower as inves took a step back and locked their