>> welcome to the program. i'm filling in for charlie rose who is away this week. we begin tonight with part two of charlie's conversation with bill clinton, ahead of the final clinton global initiative conference. >> if hillary wins i would be both the former president and spouse. i think i should make those roles as consistent as possible by saying to the president and the senior advisors, whatever you want me to do, i'll do. i'll serve. >> we continue with an interview charlie taped yesterday with u.s. open champion stan wawrinka. >> i was ready for the match. i was ready for the grand slam.

it's always tough to go there but i was playing well all the tournament. i knew i was feeling really well for the final and i was ready to try to find a way to win it. >> we conclude with senators tim scott and cory booker. charlie spoke with them at the national museum of african-american history and culture which opens late there are month in washington. >> the powerful thing we share is not only the experience of being a young african-american growing up and the same age, but having parents and grandparents who have been telling us stories, who have been hoping for america, who have been loving for america aud praying for america, and this is a building that i wish my grandparents could have seen open. i know it would have given them a sense of legitimacy, a sense that they belong with america's embracing the african-american community in really not a symbolic way but a deeply substantive way. >> the conclusion of charlie's

interview with bill clinton, stan wawrinka and senators tim scott and cory booker, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: foreign policy. you have been to north korea. they now have or are increasingly look like they will have the capacity to deliver nuclear warheads on intercontinental missiles that could reach the united states. could we or secretary clinton allow that to happen?

>> well, we're going to have a debate soon. we had the commander-in-chief's debate. i want her to speak for herself. i worked very hard to avert this when i was president, and my former defense secretary bill perry and the general who was the chairman of joint chiefs of staffs, passed away, said we can't let this happen so we worked very hard to avoid it with some success. i think for right now what hillary has suggested and what the president has supported basically is we need to toughton sanctions and increase the things that are covered and try to get the support of russia and china and japan to do that, and then they'll just have to work through it. >> rose: but they have not done it yet? >> they haven't done it yet. >> rose: the chinese haven't done as much as they can. >> that's right, they can do a

lot more. north korea is -- it's a funny country. that is, they're good at making missiles and bombs and can't grow a rice crop. >> rose: they think making a bomb gives them more power than making rice. >> they believe you and all of us in the political world, we never think about them unless they misbehave. that's what they think. and they know they can't survive without infusions of cash. and this young man, he may be more militant than his father and grandfather. >> rose: he killed off some of his father's generals.

>> yeah, so i think those who are more current with what's going on are better than i am -- >> rose: my question, is is it unacceptable for them to have a nuclear warhead that could be delivered by intercontinental missile and reach the united states so that, if, in fact, it is close to that, we should take it out? >> now you're asking me to go to a place that as a former president i shouldn't go to. it's not appropriate. i don't know what the intelligence is. i don't know. >> rose: in my waning moments -- >> let me just tell you, it's important. i think it should be discussed at these debates. i think president obama should have a chance to talk about this extensively. but anything i say on this could be used to complicate the debate and not increase america's security. i don't want to do that. i know what i did, and i don't have enough intelligence to know what i'd say if i knew everything. >> rose: everybody wonders

this question -- if your wife is president, and you've answered it a thousand times but let me understand it with a bigger and better answer -- what might you do? might you be an envoy to the middle east where you have the closest, most people believe, we've come to peace because of your friendship and communication with arafat, it could be a public or private role. take me further than you've been anywhere else. >> there was an article in one of the papers the other day saying i should really be a first lady -- that is, i need to help her accomplish the full

transformation of the gender role and they pointed out there were four presidents in the 19th century who are widowers who picked out the white house china and i could start doing that. i remember we stick with what we've got and save the money. >> rose: picked by nancy reagan, as i remember. >> the last group. we had to replace some things. >> rose: okay. but i think first and foremost, i should do whatever i'm asked to do -- that is, if hillary wins, i would be both the president, former president and a spouse. so i think i should make those roles as consistent as possible by saying to the president and the senior advisors, whatever you want me to do, i will do. i should do that. i should serve. i've had a wonderful life for the last 15 years. this is the longest i've ever had a job running this foundation and, you know, we've saved millions of lives and

created lord only knows how many jobs and i've loved it. so this is a new challenge for me, and it will be a new role to define. it's very important that my wishes be way the last thing to be considered here. >> rose: but your talent should be the first thing. >> and the needs of the country. so there are lots of things i could do. >> rose: like? i would like to be sent to all these places and then left out and left behind. i believe this country is so close to being able to really grow again in way that lifts everybody. i think the things we need to do are affordable, achievable and certainly straightforward. i think they are threatened by political grid and slow growth around the world in terms of

trouble and turmoil. but i have been in the lead for 15 years. how do you actually do this stuff? i'm not as good as i used to be in politics. i can look at you and tell, you know, i don't have the 15-second answer anymore. but if you sent me to puerto rico to figure out how they could work their way out of bankruptcy, i could do that. if you sent me to indian country and figured out how they could diversify their economy by using cash and getting a affordable broadband, i could do that. if you sent me to a country to use uh a tax credit to give them a whole different economics i could do that. i would be good at that, i think. >> rose: suppose she wants to send you to make sure she wins this election. could you do that? >> i doubt it. >> rose: we have to go, but go ahead. >> i don't know. maybe i'm not mad enough at anybody. you know, i really have learned

that we waste so much of our lives in these outbursts of anger. i know, you know, it puts you in a terrible position because i know what spikes ratings -- not you personally, i mean the media. the economic precious on media outlets are enormous today. and we live in a time of discontent, so people want to believe the worst. but i still think answers are better than anger and empowerment works better than, you know, division, and i think that responsibility is bert than resentment. it's simple, straightforward, that's what i believe. so if she wins, i will do whatever i'm asked to do in terms of the foreign policy in the middle east or anywhere else, that really depends upon not only the president but the

players. you know, the united states seeking to affect a peace in other countries can only do it if the players are convincible. in other words, i was blessed. i was blessed with rabin and arafat and king hussein. >> rose: people look at you and worry about you. >> because i lost weight. >> rose:because you've lost weight and people say, he's a vegan. but can you assure people that you feel good, you're in good health? any questions about your knowledge? >> no, not to my knowledge. i had a physical not too long ago and passed with flying colors. i can do nothing about the fact i am now the oldest man in my

family in two generations. but my dad lived to be 76, and i have lots of medical advantages over him, treatment. but every day i get up and feel great. i get up and hit it. let me say one other thing about politics and my foundation, too. i worry that so many older americans may be worried too much about all these culture changes, i think they ought to embrace them. you and i, unless some unforeseen medical miracle occurs, have more yesterdays than tomorrows. that seems to me to argue for making every tomorrow more important and to try to open up things so the future will be better for people and, in order to do that, you should embrace change. so i try cultivate this mental

state every day that i should be grateful for every day and make the most of it. that's why i wasn't just being clever when i said i'll do whatever i'm asked to do. when i had the presidency, i made the decisions, i tried to, insofar as i could, impose my will to help other people, and now i've spent 15 years to try to help people make better life stories. send me into a place and i'll try to make the most of it. but i learned that from hillary. make the most of it. figure out how you can get people together, agree and go make something good happen. and we degrees praty need to get back to that. i realize how hard it is in an environment of discontent which is legitimate because of the economic troubles and understandable because all the social upheaval, but we've got

to get back to that. we've got to be builders. we've got to get in the future business again. so, yeah, i think my health is good and i think if you think about the people we know who are still working in their '90s, it's because they're thinking about tomorrow and not yesterday. >> rose: an inspiration for me. >> you and i know people who are working in their 90s. got to say focused on the happier you are, the more you work, the more likely you are to live long and when your time runs out, the more likely you will be gracious in ceding the stage, that's the best we can do. >> rose: thank you for your time and talking about issues that are important to america. >> thank you. >> rose: stan wawrinka is here, the 2016 u.s. open champion. sunday night he prevailed in a comeback victory over the defending champion novak

djokovic. hhere's the look at match point. ( cheers and applause ) he has won each of the four grand slam events except wimbledon. he is now widely considered to be among the game's elite competitors known as the big four, roger federer, rafael nadal, andy murray and djokovic. i am pleased to have him at the table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> rose: explain this to me. you did not even play in the grand slam till you were 28? >> i didn't make the semifinal. >> rose: until you were 28. yes. >> rose: and now you're 31. and you've won three of the four. >> it seems crazy for sure but it took me time to be at my best game, and since three years now i have confidence every time i

step on the court, doesn't matter who's in front of me. >> rose: even though you were beaten by him before, you were not intimidated when you walked on the court and lost the first set? >> no, i was ready tore the fight, for a long match. iit's tough to go there. i was playing well the whole tournament. i was feeling well for the final and i was ready to try to find a way to win it? can you be number one? >> no. ( laughter ) no, i because i won three grand slams but i'm not confident enough. novak is making -- winning every tournament he's playing. i can play amazing, i can win one, but i'm not playing well enough during the year. >> rose: that's a head thing, isn't it? >> it's a little bit of

everything for sure. it's mentally, also. but, yeah, tennis, you play week after week and that's why they're so good to be called because they're winning or being in the final every single tournament week after week. >> rose: all right, i'll rephrase the question. in the grand slam events, are you the best in the world? >> no. ( laughter ) no, but it's the reality. novak this year on the one-one, novak made final also. and i'm not looking for that. i'm happy with that. something amazing for me. i'm going to try to win as much as i can matches all tournament and we'll see when i stop playing. >> but you're looking to wimbledon next year, which would be great. >> it would be different than

right now, three grand slams. but i have been trying to improve over the year. >> rose: for plays like me who still have a one-handbook hand, we love you. why did you never convert? >> i thought i might and then i changed when i was eleven because it wasn't great. it wasn't feeling good the feeling. when you're young, it's tough to go for one hand and after a while it was easy and normal. >> rose: roger is your hero? yes, he's the hero for a lot of people. >> rose: yeah, but especially tennis players. >> yes, yes. we're really close friends. we won the cup together o link gold medal and, yeah, we share so many good memories together. >> rose: how has he influenced your game?

>> when i was young, he was already at the top, so it was a chance for me to share some talk about the other player, about the life and to practice with the best player ever. it makes you improve and, so, for sure, he helped me a lot. >> rose: between now and the australian open, what are you going to try to do to make your game better? >> i'm going to try to work out every day with my coach. >> rose: he's there. physically there, yes. as far as the tennis, there is many things i can improve. but now winning grand slam, it's something amazing. i need to enjoy it and keep going. >> rose: are you in better physical shape than you've rver been? >> yes, yes. >> rose: because you say -- my impression is from what you said before the finals, if it goes long, that works to my benefit. >> that's most of the time what

happens in grand slam. >> rose: so you're ready to go to five sets. >> yes. normally i am. that's what happened last, i was the stronger player physically on the courts, and i'm really happy with that and i know in tough condition in the u.s. open, i can play with that. >> rose: five minutes before last night's watch you broke down in tears when speaking with your coach. >> i was a little bit nervous. >> rose: that was just nervous? >> it wasn't emotion about what you had done and might do? >> no, i was feeling nervous from the morning i woke up, i wasn't feeling right and i was really stress ford the final. >> rose: and how does stress affect you? >> when it's like that, most of the time, i can get through this. when i arrive on the courts, i'm focused on my game and the

match, and there is nothing else that counts, only the match point after point in my game. >> rose: how do you get up for break points? you treat them differently. >> my break point or to save them? ( laughter ) >> rose: okay, your break points. let's start there first. if the break point -- if you're taking serve and it's a break point, do you say to yourself, if he puts it here, i'm going for it, a winner? >> depends a little bit of the match, but sometimes, yeah, you tell yourself, okay, my plan is to get to that point of the rally, that's when i can really crush the ball. so, yeah, it can happen. >> rose: and what if it's a break point against you? >> the same, i'm trying to be even more tougher with myself not to give a ball, to make him win the point. if i pla -- if you play better,

that's okay, but try tot to give a free point. >> rose: is your strength your game. >> yes, that's one of the reason i can serve good. >> rose: why is that? how did you get to that point? >> practice. but why, it's because i can mix a lot, i can mix the speed, the spirntion the target, also, always changing. so my opponent doesn't know where it's coming so he cannot always really attack. >> rose: you practice with novak a lot. >> i try to. he's a good friend and i practice with the best player. >> rose: what's a practice like between you and -- >> most of the time -- >> rose: end up laughing, having fun, let's try this, help me get to this point? >> it's tough. we push each other in practice.

i think you can ask his team, also, every time we practice, we finish a practice, we all really happy with what we've done. we push each other, try to improve. most of the time we do one hour, two hours, and it's good also because we like eachouter. >> rose: what brought you to tennis? why tennis for you? >> it started when i was eight years old. we had the tennis club next to the house with my brother, and we just start tennis like soccer or anything else. i enjoyed tennis. i enjoy the game. most of time you're alone on the court, you need to find the solution. >> rose: what's the role for him? was there magic in terms to have way -- this is the guy you break down and cry with. >> yeah, i know. but for sure he has something

special because he adopts the player, he gives the player more confidence and i'm happy to work with him. >> rose: you get the sense that it's sort of come together, you could feel it coming together. the game was short, the serves were better, the second serves were, all of that, young feel it. >> i feel it in the tournament, yeah, during the match, and that's what happened again at the u.s. open, when everything -- all the pieces of the puzzle are together, then i know that i can win the tournament. >> rose: confident is a big thing. >> yes, it's time to come and go out quickly, so it's never easy to have that confidence. >> rose: and your record against djokovic is 5 vs. 19. >> that's okay. i play him many times.

he's the number one player in the world. i'm really happy to beat him three times i won the grand slam. >> rose: you must feel good about the game now. you at 31 have a good shot at wimbledon next year. >> i'm far away from that, but i feel really happy with where i am right now. >> rose: any reason wimbledon will be the toughest for you? >> my game takes time to adapt to the grass. the grass is a little bit different, it's a little bit faster, tougher for my game. i need normally a little bit more time to put my game together. so we'll see. but i have been playing great and making the final so we'll see. >> rose: you need a lot of preparation on grass. >> yeah, i try. the season is one week longer so i have been practicing three weeks. >> rose: how does it feel to have this? >> really good. this is very good. >> rose: puts you up there

with roger federer. >> so many champions there. >> rose: there is nothing better than working hard and all of a sund, when you're 21 or 31 -- >> 31, yeah. >> rose: -- no, but even if you're 21 or 31, to win the u.s. open, to win three of the four grand slams, it's a remarkable feeling tore a game you love. >> oh, that's a big chance. i love playing tennis. i enjoy. i those big stadiums. yesterday, it was something special. it was crazy. >> rose: the crowd turns you on. >> yeah, i love it. i'm sorry. that's also why you play tennis, to see that people enjoy it, to see that people are happy to be here and they enjoy the match and i think yesterday they did enjoy the finals. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you. >> rose: congratulations. thank you. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us.

>> rose: what's interesting is you come from two very different backgrounds. you're the democratic senator from new jersey, republican senator from south carolina, and what units you? >> there is a kinship and bond i felt with tim almost instantly, a friendship, a commonality of experiences. we may have come out of two different backgrounds but we share a common heritage and experience, a common african-american experience, a common families. my ancestry is from the south, and a lot of those things people might expect our politics, i'm sure if you look at our voting record it's very different, but we found so much common ground and worked on legislation together. i think we can both share a sense of common mission when it comes to our country as a whole as well as when it comes to freanders in the country. i think. >> i think we share a love of country. we both love people. we see the objective of solving problems for folks as our

primary objective. we may take different perspectives and approaches on solving the problems, but the od news is we actually see the same problems so often, and too often we celebrate differences in this nation. >> rose: why is this so rare in american politics? >> good question. i think in order to make progress in this country as elected officials or everyday citizens, you first have to have rapport. we were able to establish rapport, we found common bond. then you need credibility, transparency and trust. then you have the permission of the other side to solve problems. we were able to develop the four very important steps quickly and we have been able to work together to solve some of the problems the nation faces. >> rose: have either of you been in this building before this afternoon? >> i have not, no. >> rose: tell me just with a glimpse of it, what do you think it means both to america and to you individually? >> i'll tell you, when i walked in here, looking at the bronze

on the outside, the distinction on capitol hill, i first thought of my graduate who are passed away in january of this year, i thought about taking him to vote for the first african-american president, a day that he never thought would come. walking in here, understanding the weight of history, the gravity of the circumstances that we face as a nation, encouraged me, saddened me, and made me understand the important role that we can play in making this country better together. >> rose: as senators? yes, sir. i have been jogging the capitol mall for some time now and watching this building go up, and, you know, there are times i would stop on my run and just look and feel this sense of gratitude, this sort of emotionalism well up inside of

me. i mean, the powerful thing he and i share are not only the experiences of being a young african-american growing up about the same age, but even more powerful than that having parents and grandparents who have been telling us stories, who have been hoping for america, who have been loving for america, been praying for america, and this is a building that i wish my grandparents could have seen open. i know it would have given them a sense of legitimacy, a sense that they belong, that america is embracing the african-american community in really not a symbolic way but in a deeply substantive way. and i thought about it. i joked as i was coming in, but to cross the threshold of the building, that moment of walking into this building, i just almost felt as if my ancestors were rejoicing in that moment. then i had a chance as i was walking to be interviewed in this space to talk to two of the curators of the slavery to freedom section of the museum, and to hear these two women

speak, i suddenly realized that there is an aspect of african-american history that frustrates me sometimes. it's such a rich history. every war african-americans have fought on and died for, it's only the accomplishment. we take for granted now in our culture, we see the president, entertainment, athletics, business, but there is a shadow that still hangs over the truth and depth of the contributions of african-americans in this country, and as i heard this two women talking about this exhibit, i realized this will illuminate our country more to the depth of contribution and citizenship and service that blacks have made in america's history. >> validation. this building, in many ways, i started receiving phone calls from people to visit this location as if i have tickets to come whenever people want to come. ( laughter )

at first you hear this lean-in concept. you sense people leaning in to want to be a part of this historic building, as if walking in here makes them a part of history because they know that the ancestors are part of the history. so to validate a reality that we've all known, but for the first time in the nation's capitol, we know that african-american history is american history. >> rose: and they're part of american history. >> what a beautiful thing. >> rose: and their history is part of american history. >> so important to have that. >> rose: it's interesting, too, because so many young people don't have a sense of history, of their own history, whether african-american or not, but especially african-american history, and they can come here and they can see the casket of emmett till and understand where america was and where we hope that it is and becoming better.

>> yes, but you have to understand black history isn't for black people. black history is for americans. it's for all of us to feel pride, all of us to feel that this history is so much a part of them, no matter what your background or race is, and i agree. it hurts me how little folks often know about the contributions of african-american leaders, what folks endured. the feel to this nation's highest years old, even when people were betraying those ideals, this idea that we'll make them real and true. and you talk about the pain from the middle passage to the tuskegee syphilis experiments to emmett till, and even things that are going on today, there is still this wonderful spirit that comes from the african-american communitiy, "i have been through sorrow's kitchen and liquid out all the pots," but the second half of the quote is the sense of hope is born from despair, it's a

choice you make, it's never letting despair have the last word. here's a community who found hope for america and making significant contributions to making real on the hope in america. >> rose: and the first african-american president of the united states will cut the ribbon when it opens. >> yes. >> rose: speaking of issues of conflict between community and law enforcement. ving speech on the senategave a floor in which you talk about what an assault on dignity it is, how many times you'd been stopped by police as an elected official. >> yeah, seven times in one're 2016. for me, what i hopped to do with that speech was to bring light to a very old issue, one that most of us who are especially african-american males have experienced time and time and time again and without the

camera, without some way of recording the incident, it appeared that it wasn't happening or it was in question, i wanted to validate the kerns of so many -- the concerns of so many folks and say, it's real. at the same time, i spent a lot of time reminding folks that 95% of the time, maybe even more, law officers are doing their job and doing it right. the unfortunate reality is too many men of color have been the victims of when it's not right. >> rose: and in some cases, death. >> absolutely. we saw in south carolina, april 2015, walter scott fleeing from an officer being shot in the back. we set up, of course, the non-police-related incident at emanuel church. my state is filled with american history and not all of it has been good for folks of color, but the beauty of south carolina and of america is that it's home

of the beginning of the civil war. >> rose: charleston. they elected me to be their congressman and then their senator . so the evolution of the american spirit can best be seen from my perspective from being a pinner in south carolina, the orange massacre to fast forward to a place where the first senator from the south of african descent comes out of south carolina. >> rose: you said i have felt the pressure of scales of justice when they're slanted, felt the agoer, frustration, sadness that comes from feeling that you're being targeted for nothing more than just being yourself. >> absolutely. i think that quote is the best way to say what i felt and what i feel because the truth is our nation continues to evolve. a painful part of our history, a painful part of our present is that strained relationship

between the community of color and law enforcement. and myself with trey gowdy started a group with law enforcement officers to build rapport and untangle the very difficult issues to solve and present the solutions to the country. >> rose: when you look at this, this is not a republican or a democratic solution that is necessary. what is necessary? >> well, i think what tim is doing is a great representation of that. he's a republican but, yet, there is a wonderful aspect of african-american tradition that is true in a lot of other traditions in this country is speaking truth with power. here's a united states senator and has been in my opinion graidges by not in any way amending his troops and standing on the senate floor and speaking like that. the trick is that's one part of

what is needed. the other part that's needed is to have courage in their empathy, cranes empathy to listen to the truth about defensiveness but be open to the truth and experience, an those are the things he listed off before to begin to create an environment where we can actually do something. i worry in america we're not listening to each other with our hearts. we're not shoring that courageous empathy to really try to understand other people's experiences. we're judging first or reacting first or not even listening but just preparing our defense. and this is something that i value that's coming out of leaders like tim, not just wanting us to listen and show empathy, but willing to tell the truth no matter what the consequences. the speech you gave, you have to understand in his election year, in a state that i'm going to say it that despite the heroic things that you've seen, the church in charleston, heroic, racial courage and healing and coming together, but there are still issues in south carolina

like new jersey, that for him an election year to stand up and give a speech where there could have been a lot of backlash and criticism, that's the kind of courage that we need from leaders in congress and we also need leaders courageous enough to stop and listen and do what's necessary when it comes to empathy to create an environment where we can actually work together to solve these problems. >> you, in fact said, even though i'm angry, i'm not going to speak in anger. >> if you ever want to get off track looking for solutions, speak with great emotion during an emotional time. i had to -- and i have had to take my time and allow the emotion to dissipate so that i can have an honest conversation with folks not about how i feel but about how people feel who are in that position. i thought it was very important for me to share my experience without the emotion of my experience because then it would

have been about me. my goal with was to validate those of us who have been in that situation, who have had that experience, who have felt threatened sitting in your car, who just because of what you look like, you've had an experience that shakes you to your core. it's hard to articulate with words the frustration, the insecurity, the sense of being invisible and then completely visible. it's hard to validate to those of us who have been in that situation, especially when you've done nothing wrong. >> rose: there is also the brian stephenson said we have never really confronted the legacy of slavery and our history of racial injustice has compromised on all of our abilities to see each other fairly. the legacy of slavery. tell me how you site and how

we -- tell me how you see it and how we confront it. >> for me, it's very frustrating. i live -- i don't know where all my colleagues go home, but i go home to inner city, i go home to newark, new jersey. i love my community and city. what folks don't understand is they often talk about things as if they're so far away, but they don't understand these things have been compounded on each other generation after generation. slavery, one of the most violent periods of terrorism in the united states of history was the period right after reconstruction where there was massacres on american soil of black business people, mass kerrs, and on top of that replaced with the vicious white supremacy of jim crow. that affected american policy. people don't understand that from the g.i. bill to fair housing, all of these things were put forth in a time where we celebrate f.d.r.'s alphabet soup, don't understand that these were all opportunities

that were often constricted or denied to african-americans. i see the legacy in newark every day of bigoted housing policies that went well into the '70s. my family's stories as a child being denied housing, having to get a white cup toll pose as us. this legacy is alive today and we can't be defensive about it. we can't ignore it and hope it goes away. we have to have courage to confront with love what's going on in our country's history and address that injustice so we can be the country that we all hope and want to be. >> 40% of the slaves that -- that leave came through charltseston. we have a provocative history. you can see that manifesting through our state. i think we have to have an equilibrium as we have that discaution discussion because if all you can see is the pain and misery of our past, it is very difficult to look into the future with hope and opportunity.

>> you can't move forward if you're not willing to confront the wounds of the past. you cover up wounds and ignore them, they will fester and grow worse. if you give attention to them, if you acknowledge them, this is why you see this in other countries with truth and reconciliation, talking about what happened and what went forward, and that's the thing. we can't try to homogenize. even using things like this, i know they're going to tell the truth about people like martin luther king. a friend talks about the santa cause-ification of martin luther king. he was deeply unpopular. he truly shook the norm in this country. everyone wants to say how much they love muhammad ali. he was deeply unpopular in this country for the stance he took. we can't warp history to make us feel good. >> rose: and malcolm x to the naacp. >> absolutely.

i think corey says it well, no one should whit whitewash our history. those of us who have lived it in the south, especially in south carolina, every day, we have reminders of where we have been, where we are. not often enough. we sat down with president perez in israel. one of the things he said was, we don't have enough teachers of the future. so while i am absolutely a lean-forward kind of guy, an optimist, it's not because i'm ignorant of my past, it's because every day when i go back home, south carolina, we celebrate our past, we celebrate the pain of our history. >> rose: and your mother said to you as a young man, do what you do, and what you would do and ask yourself what you would do if you could not fail. >> look, i came from a family of

no excuses. i came from a family that modeled for me what it took to make it. grandparents who were successful, overcome odds i can't imagine. my father born poor in jim crow south to a single mom and they would not allow me with the blessings i grew up with, with the richness, my father would say to me, boy, don't walk around like you hit a triple, you were born on third base. >> rose: i always wondered where ann richards got that. ( laughter ) >> never let fear, never let pettiness, never let injury, never let these things hold you back. but the common thing i love about what we took from both of our families, and it's so deep in the african-american tradition, as well as the american tradition at large, is this idea that you define your greatness not by your personal accomplishments but by your

willingness to do for others. service is the measure of greatness, because you inherited a legacy of struggle, sacrifice and overcoming, and that's the legacy that you've got to continue and be loyal to. >> this place, is at least in black culture where i grew up throughout the south, and i think true for cory as well, our faith played such a pivotal role in keeping hope alive. one of the scriptures i'll never forget my grandmother reminded me all the time is my goal in life -- according to here -- was matthew 25:21, well done good and faithful servant. >> rose: because of the unreasonable number of african-americans, especially men, incarcerated, a growing sense that there has to be something done in the criminal justice system, and i seem to feel a recognition that this is

common ground for republican and democrat. >> please understand that there is not a sense -- there is a fierce, relentless urgency to address this injustice in america. african-americans are four times more likely to be arrested for doing things the last two presidents admitted to doing. it's such a massive reality that our prison populations and jails are filled with the poor, minorities, mentally ill, drug addicted, so overwhelming, and this isn't new or old. it happened since 1980, 800% increase in the federal prison population, 500% increase in the nation's prison population. we are the land of the free and incarceration leader of the globe on planet earth and it's affecting every area of american life. we have 20% less poverty to our

peers, even voting rights, one out of five black people can't vote because of this explosion in incarcerating people mostly based on a failed drug war because there are more people in jail now for non-violent drug offenses than all the people incarcerated in 1975. this is an urgency. you didn't expect to come to black church to a young man who grew up in the church, but now the christian evangelical movement, white and black, this has been a big bonding area, when it says in mathew 25, when it says did you visit me in prison? what have you done for the least of these, addressing the injustices, we are here unequivocally, this museum is here unequivocally because of the idea of faith in the black community. in the bible it says the faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains, well this is humble faith that helped

overcome a monumental injustice, but there is still outrageous injustice going on in the criminal justice system and african-american males being decimated by this drug war. i'm rejoicing i3 i'm co-sponsoring legislation with tim and grassley, durbin, both sides of the aisle, seeing a common urgency because people are being put in a poor house to explode the prisons to the righteousness crew said that if we're to be the land of the liberty we need to do this a different way. >> one of the reasons i found myself working with ways to partner with cory on criminal justice riform is because of his passion and the facts. second reason i decided to jump on the bandwagon of criminal justice reform is because of

having a home in south carolina. at least in south carolina, the estimated prison population for our state should have been around 30,000 this year. it's actually 20,000. they closed six prisons, six prisons in south carolina because we figured out how to punish those who are a threat to society and not puppish those who are either angry at or afraid of. the change has been monumental, the lives restored can't be measured, and the impact -- the good impact on our society is being seen every day, and the good news is south carolina's safer today than in my lifetime. >> and that's the profound thing. states are realizing, federal government hasn't moved, but red states are moving in america lowering the prison populations and, surprise, surprise, crime is going down as well. when you empower people to succeed, they do better. when prison becomes about retribution and putting people

away in disproportionate manners you're making the problem worse. >> rose: but urgency present today in the political system to deal with mass incars ranges to deal with these -- mass incarcerations, to deal with the questions of too many people in for the wrong crimes and differences between white and black sentences. >> there is urgency but not enough. the essence of perverse privilege is when there is a serious problem but it's not affecting you or your family personally then it's not a problem, well that to me is the worst kind of privilege, and we as americans who may not be -- by the way, we're approaching a point in america where one out of three adult americans have an arrest record, black, white, whatever. by the way, what we do to people with just an arrest record, it's legal in most states to discriminate against them, deny them housing, jobs, just because they were arrested even if they is is a national problem but i'm telling you it is

disproportionately affecting poor folk and we don't have the sense of urgency and the political will to actually solve a problem and we have examples to point to of where we're solving the problem making all society better? let me close with this, we're sitting here in this magnificent new museum, in this mag sniff sent mall. this is the washington monument right there, a man who had slaves, the president of the united states, the first president of the united states. what do you hope, as this museum will open september 24th, it accomplishes, it reminds us of? what would be your deepest hope that this will accomplish and represent? >> i hope that one of the beauty uhys of this museum being here will be an understanding and an appreciation of the depth of the pain, agony and tragedy of slavery.

i hope that the suffering from decade to decade to decade will be understood in a very real and tangible way. i hope that the the weight of the past will slow your gait and bow your head and, as you walk out of here, i hope that the sense of freedom and a sense of expectations will overwhelm you and that you will feel individually responsible for making america the most amazing country for every single citizen in our land. >> that was beautiful. >> rose: it was beautiful. very beautiful. i'll make it even simpler. go past the washington monument, go to the jefferson memorial. that's a man who had a very complication relationship with black folk and a painful one

with black folk, but if you read his words at the declaration of independence, he said in order for this country to make it, for us to succeed, we have to have an irrational commitment to one another, we have to pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. that necessitates courageous empathy, it necessitates leading with love. it necessitates a level of citizenship where we understand that i need you as much as you need me, and i'm hoping that this museum helps us get and reignite that principle, that ideal in every one of americans where we begin to understand that when i see you, i don't see another, i see myself and my destiny interwoven with yours and i need us to pledge to each other that my life, fortune and sashed honor, if we as americans manifested that level of sacred honor, there is nothing we

cannot achieve together. the old african thing. if you want to go fast, go alone. if you want to go far, go together. i hope this museum can bring us together in that way. >> rose: equally ol' quint. thank you, senator. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you, senator. yes, sir. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

>> announcer: the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ >> must have soup! >> the pancake is to die for! [ laughs ] >> it was a gut-bomb, but i liked it. >> good. i actually fantasize, in private moments, about the food i had. >> i didn't like it. >> you didn't like it? oh, okay. >> dining here makes me feel rich. >> and what about dessert? pecan pie, sweet potato pie.