>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: bono is here. this year marks the 40t 40th anniversary of the lead singer's legendary rock band u2. the group has sold more than 157 million records. it has won 2 22 grammys.

bono is known for rock star status and philanthropic works over the globe. $100 million commitment was made to the fight for aids, tuberculosis and ma lar. i can't he visited various countries and is in new york for the general assembly. i am pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. you are a traveling man. >> ivy a travel rat. i guess i signed up when i joined a rock and roll band age 16. >> rose: with a couple of teenage friends. tell me about nice and how close that was. >> when you talk about these

things, it's easy to forget your drama is a tiny shard of the dramas going on around you. we were there, bastille night, we were looking at the fireworks, left the fireworks, came back to this woman and her son hovered into a restaurant, got our party back to a window and under tables. we brought this woman and her son. the heavy thing was he was calming her down, he was, like, a 10-year-old, saying, momma, momma, it's okay, she was having a panic attack. we weren't panicked. i don't know if it was growing up in ireland. we were just, like, oh, it's

probably just the fireworks of spooked people. and you have awful thoughts. you're passive and you look at a blunt knife and you think, is there a gunman coming through? awful thoughts. the local services were amazing. the french did it right. they locked the place down, made sure everything with was safe. i'm very grateful to them and i've tried to pay respect to the families. that's really all that matters, really. >> rose: indeed you are right about that. but it was and people were concerned about you because of all of what happened to so many innocent souls. >> yeah, and it's the second time in france for us. we were in paris at the night of the bataclan and were rehearsing and were a mile away.

>> rose: that was on tour. we went back two weeks later. we brought the band on stage at the end of the show and that was a big, big moment. ♪ people have the power ♪ people have the power ♪ yeah! ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ people have the power ♪ people have the power ♪ people have the power ♪ ♪ >> you know, there is a thing about these groupsish these terrorist groups, they love the phenomenon of the grey zone which is where people get on, christians, muslims, they loathe the grey zone where people mingle, and they want to divide us, and i thought, you know, when we went back, it wasn't about the melody, it was about harmony. that's what i felt. i felt it wasn't about our song, it was about the crowds singing it back to us sort of thing. you know, it's powerful, rock

and roll, you know, as an act of defiance. >> rose: indeed, it is. that's the first thing i think about when i think about rock and roll, in part, is defiance. >> that's right. there is nothing more romantic in the world than fight, it's the essence of romance. >> rose: yeah. and joy, you know, is the really ultimate act of defiance. when you think of music, you know, the beatles or mozart or beethoven -- you know, irish people, we can surrender to men melancholy any day of the week and cry in the peer but u2 was founded on the pure act of defiance, joy. the music has given us the life. our music was always wrapped and social justice which is where you and i met in the fight against extreme poverty. but that's how i got in the

door. people were expecting i would leave. but when i would be up on capitol hill here or any capitol, you know, meme would take the meeting just sort of to have a look at this exotic creature, whatever, a rock and roll person, but then i didn't leave. >> rose: with all the passion you have for social activism, does it in any way diminish the music? >> well, you know, it has been of some pride for the band, the the work they've done, but it's also, i know i've embarrassed them a lot. there is people i meet that they just wouldn't want me to meet, and i remember bringing in jesse helms to the show. edge was very upset about that. as regards time, it's odd, because for me i see all the stuff i do as the same thing, you know. they might see it as

multi-personality disorder, but i see melodies and ideas as being the same thing. even little businesses. you know, startups, they're like melody lines to me. a great melody and a great idea have a lot in common. there is something you knee, present -- unique, presence. there is a an arc and an inevitability. you feel you know where it's going, though you've never seen one before. i feel that about a song, about the one campaign, or red or anything i do. >> rose: but do you feel, because of the accident in the park and because the guitar's not there -- >> no would say it was never there. >> rose: well... it's okay. it's okay. >> rose: you wouldn't say that and your band wouldn't say that. >> they would, actually. i wouldn't. >> rose: you wouldn't, but

they would. >> they would. ( laughter ) >> rose: but did it help you with the idea? if you heard the music in your head, now that you can't play the guitar like you did, does it mean that the idea in a sense is swimming alone? >> hmm, that's interesting. well, i mean, i'm sure you'd have these moments where suddenly you're very mortal, and i've had a few of them, and, you know, discovering my head was not as hard as everything i tried to butt it up against, not as hard as the ground, it's sum bling to me. i wasn't expecting it. i've always been on top of things. my body, edge says i look at my body like an inconvenience. i've never thought about it.

>> rose: i do, too. but on my back, i did -- you know, i had time to think about things. i had time to let the music come through me, and we've written some incredible songs, i think, and it's not about some stupid bike accident, but it is about realizing that there is an elastic limit in your life and that you as an artist don't feel it but you as a person are now part of that. i'm not sure i like that very much. >> rose: you went back in the last album, "songs of innocence," and it was about your mother. it was back about dublin. it was about the musical influences. >> mm-hmm. >> rose: there is a sense that you both go forward and then you come back. >> maybe to go back is what it's

about. we're always thinking about where we're going. but on the last time, i decided i need to know why am i like this? where does this come from? what is this rage that i still can't seem to shake? you know,. >> rose: why am i in a band? why am i in a band? all those kinds of questions. then i got to these very ordinary situations lots of people probably have had where they just go, oh, my god, my mother died when i was 14 and, you know, it's like, well, the way i got over it was, of course, i went into music, i lost myself in music and i went to the crowds and that became that sort of -- you know, that sort of love i was missing in my life, living in a house in the north side of dublin with two men i was fighting with. that's where the music came

from. alchemy. music is alchemy, we turn our (bleep) into gold. that's it? you once said if i am close to music and you are close to music then we are close to each other. >> yeah. music is the language of the spirits. i mean, you as sort of a jazz man, conversationalist, you're pretty musical the way you move around the table with words, but actually, it's when we shut up that another kind of talking goes on, our spiritual life or whatever you want to call it, so music, i think, connects us with our spirits, you know, our spiritual life, and then i think all music is worship, actually. and it's not if you don't believe in god, it can be anything. it can be a woman, it can be a lot of bad things, but it's

always worship. >> rose: you just had a hugely successful tour. (singing) ♪ ♪

(singing) ♪ ♪ ♪ >> rose: beyond money, beyond promoting the album as it does, does it speak to you in terms of how the audience sees the songs? do you get feedback from them about the lyrics? >> yeah, it's a very passionate thing going on there. we fight with our audience. it's like a lover's quarrel. i years ago would stumble -- not just stumble -- i would leap into the audience and wrestle with them. there was a concert in the '80s, i was in my early 20s, and i went into the audience

with a white flag. >> rose: i remember that! yes! >> it was in the los angeles times, a big review, said it's the most irresponsible thing they've ever seen. i went in with a white flag in the crowd and people ripped the flag and me smacking them. it's me making this whole non-violent protest and then i'm -- all of that. but that relationship with our audience is everything to this band. on our albums, our recordings are good. we've done some good stuff. >> rose: yes, you have. but it's great when we're -- because it's live, it's present, it's different. it changes. even if you're not improvising, sometimes we are, sometimes we aren't, always different. they do change. you're right, the audience changes the song and every night, because you pick up their feelings in the room. a song with mean something different in paris than in new york. it just means something

different. (singing) ♪ ♪

>> rose: do you like rehearsals? >> no. not good at rehearsals, with which is why i'm here, by the way. ( laughter ) they don't know i'm here. this is the story of my life.

i don't like it. i can't connect with it. getting into these songs for me, i wake up in the morning, feel a little ill, a little nauseous, i know it's coming and i have to step inside the song and when it's going great, you know, the songs are singing you and it's a transcendent thing. (singing) ♪ ♪

♪ mc. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

>> but that doesn't happen all the time. so there is a deep fear that it's going to be you singing and them. so rehearsing it's, like, what's the point. >> rose: yeah, writing, is it hard for you to write a song? >> no. i have been writing melodies since i was a kid, since the piano keys were taller than my head. so i remember, and i didn't know how to play, but i remember putting my foot on the pedal and finding out where the reverb was and making a sound of a note and then finding another note that felt good with it, as a child. so i had that. >> rose: what is this talent, though?

>> i don't know what it is. >> rose: i thing it's a gift. i guess it is and that's why you shouldn't be arrogant. having a gift, it's like inherited wealth. being talented -- i say this to beautiful girls, i say, you know, be humble. it's, like, you didn't work for this. these are gifts. we're all given these gifts. to have such beauty and talent, i mean -- ( laughter ) nu but take songs of ex. >> rose: but take songs of experience. how many have you written? >> 16 songs on the cooker, and we have to boil it down to ten or 12. we would rather it be ten, but it will probably be 12. >> rose: what's the question you're asking this time? >> well, i'm not sure i should say this, but there is a great poet. we're discussing -- >> rose: a remarkable book,

irish poet. >> there is a last poem called kite, for aging, which i think it's about his death. another poet advised me to write as if you're dead. >> rose: oh, i know! you said that. >> he said, to do that is to be free of ego, to be free of -- you know, gone, you're out of here. >> rose: you please nobody but yourself. >> so i've taken that position, and i've written some very, very personal songs to people, to my kids or our kids, to friends and to our audience, and then i caught myself writing to myself, but i didn't know it was me, and i was, like, what's this one about? i went, ooh. there's one called "the little things that give you away." i thought, oh, god, who's that about? me. >> rose: there's one called the morning after innocence.

>> ah, yes. that's kind of the theme of it. it's changed. that's odd. i told you about it and i shouldn't v. that song the morning after innocence turns into the little things that give you away. >> rose: i was living a lie and calling it compromise. is that right? >> right. >> rose: that's personal. mm-hmm. >> rose: what was the compromise? >> i sometimes think that the younger me who is very black and white, church mantel, a big pain in the as by right a lot -- >> rose: as in correct. yeah, might look at me now and be disappointed. i've written a couple of songs from that point of view. although i feel that i've found

the freedom as a person as well as a writer that i didn't have as a younger man. >> rose: we talked about terrorism earlier, and how it's all around us, it's in paris and in the united states and it's in brussels and it's everywhere. there's also politics today in which some people are very worried about forms of populism. they see it in europe, the move to the right in certain places, even in france. they worry about it here. when you look at donald trump and his candidacy, and you have said wonderful things about america -- you said america is more than a nation, it's an idea -- does trump come to you as somebody who's a change agent? because people are so unhappy about the status quo if o -- sts

quo? or does he come to you as something else? >> america is the best idea the world ever came up with, but donald trump is potentially the worst idea that ever happened to america, potentially, could destroy us because of what we're saying, because america is not just a country. ireland is a nice country, great britain is a great country, all the rest, but america is an idea, and that idea is bound up in justice and equality for all -- equality and justice for all, you know, and this is -- you know, i think in lazarus, those lines, give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, this is america. this is not from donald trump's

playbook. look, i have spent nearly 20 years, now, fiercely bipartisan and i'm going to stay that way. i have eenormous respect for the party of abraham lincoln. some of the greatest workers in one campaign come from conservative tradition. some close friends of mine are republicans. i don't think he's republican i think he's hijacked the party and i think he's trying to hijack the idea of america. i think it's bigger than all of us. this is rea dangerous, and i think, you know, it cannot -- wise people of conscience should not let this man turn your country into a casino. >> rose: why do you think this race is even about running against a woman who has been

secretary of state, united states senator , first lady of the united states -- >> i would not diminish trump supporters or underestimate their angst because i feel that, in a way, they have correctly assessed that the center parties haven't yet become clear -- >> rose: in other words, you're saying their angst is real and genuine, a sense that i worry about my country and where it is. >> yeah, yeah, but they're very real problems facing not just america but facing europe. and remember, who's in the white house? i'm irish, i don't have a vote and i can't be telling people how to vote and don't want to, but i have a voice and i can say

who sits in that office really affects everyone in this world. >> rose: you seem to be saying this is an absence of i worry he will put the country at risk, i worry about his instinct and -- >> yes, i do. i worry on every single front. the lack of civility and common decency and things have been bad enough in congress, do we really want this kind of thing in the sacred office? this is an incredible country. and by the way, the people w ll wake up out of this. it's a protest vote now, but they shouldn't make a protest vote with him. >> rose: some will argue, and i know her well and respect her greatly, that part of thish shiewf his -- part of the issue of his ride has to do in part with her, that she is not a popular candidate, that people

will want to see change and they don't think they will get change with her and, so, they are prepared to take a chance with him. >> because he's not a pop star or a show man or a showwoman? because she's not simplistic? >> rose: i think it's at the heart of whether she's not something -- there is an issue of trust. i'm saying that's clearly part of -- >> that is so mad. of all the mad things, think about it, just on a pure psychological profile, i mean, the woman is almost pernickety. if i'm going in there with the one campaign and walk into the state department, she is, like, all over us. she is -- it's tough love with her, and she's very proper. it's so mad that people would think it's something nefarious because she's the opposite and, okay, this privacy thing,

whatever, maybe she's gone overboard, who would blame her with that history, but, listen, i don't want to be on your show talking and, you know, trying to tell people how to vote, i can't do that. >> rose: but you are alarmed about donald trump. >> i am really alarmed and i'm ready to speak in a way that i haven't spoken for 20 years, and i'm not -- >> rose: it's not comfortable for you but you're doing it because you feel like what? >> because i feel this country is in real danger and this is really a dangerous moment. there is lots of thing. there is climate change, nuclear weapons proration, there is terrorism. there is all kinds of stuff. actually the biggest danger might be right here, and this fear of the other. i'm irish. can you imagine -- when he talks about illegal aliens, we're

drinking a spot of tea, half the irish people in there are probably stayed too long on their visas or whatever it is. it's not the level of mexicans. mexican people are some of the most extraordinary people you will ever meet in your life, and they are working, doing incredible jobs, some very sophisticated, some are jobs americans don't want to do, but i'm irish, i'm very offended, we were economic refugees. we got off the boat here smelling of (bleep) and, you know, we were rough and, you know, no blacks and irish, we know this story, but we've made a contribution to america. i think most americans will agree the irish are part of your story. >> rose: the country has been built on immigrants. >> the country is built on this principle. the promised land belongs to those who need it most, surely. >> rose: will you campaign? will h you get involved?

>> no, i can't do that. i really can't do that. but i just feel like we have to stand up and be counted in some kind of luminous way, and i will figure out a way. >> rose: let me talk about red, tenth anniversary. a couple of philanthropy things. not only one but red, and a push to unify africa. i remember you and i coming to sit at this table and talking about debt forgiveness. >> that's at this table, that's true. >> rose: yes, yes! you came here selling the yofd debt forgiveness. how long ago was that? >> that's a long time ago. probably 16 years ago. >> rose: because we've got countries in africa that can't get on with their development because they have an overwhelming debt, and the only way to deal with it is to find a way to forgive them the debt so they can use those resources. >> 120 billion later, by the

way, and 46 million africans going to school, because that's what happened with the money that was saved was spent. isn't that incredible? >> rose: unbelievable. what is electrify africa? >> that's a thing, absolutely right, what's going on now, the whole narrative about development's changed. it's changed because the world's getting excited about the continent. by 2050, it will be twice the population of china. you know, it will be, i think, a third of the world's youth will be african. can you imagine the culture, the music? so i think people are saying, well, how can we depart of this rising africa narrative? so president obama has been really keen on partnering with, you know, bringing power to africa. mark zuckerberg is trying to bring -- >> rose: the internet to africa --

>> -- to africa. >> rose: -- with everything else. >> so are a lot of people. i think actually, there's about to emerge a new security and development narrative, started in africa but partnered in europe and america, that's going to change the game that regards africa, north africa, the middle east, the refugee crisis people are looking at can we go to source here, what can we do here, because there is a phenomenon, the three extremes you could call them, and you have extreme poverty, extreme client and extreme ideology, and this unholy trinity is where all the problems are. if you go to, you know, from

northern mali, nigeria, sudan, somalia and all the way to afghanistan, parched earth, people scraping to make a living, hard, hard life. and we need to understand this, we need to be there. and african leaders, president bahery of nigeria, entrepreneurs saying we have to deal with this. in northern nigeriaia i have been to bourneo in northern nigeria. two million people are displaced, boko haram torched their houses and towns. even though nigeria knows we're making progress, they can't return to their homes because they're not there. 2 million people displaced in northern nigeria. the stated objective of boko haram is the destabilization of

nigeria, which is a grey zone. let me just put one thought in your head -- that's ten times the population of syria. the nigeria fails -- >> rose: so the risk is ten times the population of syria. >> the refugee crisis probably resulted in brexit, that's 20 million people, nigeria is 200 million people, and it's very important it succeeds because if nigeria fails, africa fails. if africa fails, europe fails. and if europe fails, america's in deep (bleep). >> rose: right. why africa, always? i mean, it was aids, debt relief, it's development. >> the thing why we all picked a fight with aids was because it sort of focused you on this inequality, you know, that you could get these two pills if you

had h.i.v. in new york or dublin but it's a death sentence, an accident on latitude and longitude. >> rose: geography. where you live should not decide whether you live, that was our tattoo. so it's justty. if you're asking what motivates, it's justice, not charity. as it happens, that whole mode is shifting now to a self-interest narrative, and europeans are realizing that the continent of africa is eight miles away and that if people are running from burning homes and burning villages, they will strap themselves to bits of wood, teachers, nurses, educated people will put their children in little dinghies and risk everything to find liberty. they would swim to europe, and we can't stop them, nor should

we. these were refugees, and we've all been refugees. so now europe is realizing we have to now understand what's going on in the continent that is our neighbor and particularly north africa and nigeria is whole west africa. you have an intelligent, honest leader there, praise the lord, let's make sure he can succeed and has what he needs. >> rose: you have been everybody involved in red, more than $360 million. >> that's right. >> rose: tell me how you see this in terms of this great rock star, what skills he has, what talent he has, what is it that motivates him and what is it he

uses to rally these points of power to make a difference? >> better ask him. ( laughter ) i want to say it back to you because it's the same thing that has this table become the stuff of legends. it's an old-fashioned -- it's app ancient idea, pretentious to mention, but it's that greek idea of the whole society, is it not? it should not be unusual to have scientists, artists, mathematicians, poets, drunks, comedians, philosophers contributing. that's how ireland was formed. everyone was welcomed in the conversation. the world of ideas. you're interested in it, i'm interested in it, and that's what motivates me. how could you, for instance, the development agenda used to be a thing of the left, a creature of

the left. oh, yes, they're hammering on about poverty, probably wrong. that was underestimating people on the right. what we tried in the one campaign, we can actually unit these people and have twice the support for people who are, you know, dying with an unnecessary and preventible disease or whatever. commerce is always left out of. this the engines of commerce, the creative engines, the creative departments of coca-cola, you know, that's their great advertisers. can we use their advertising? >> rose: they have trucks in africa that can be used to deliver medicine. >> absolutely right. bobbie shriver, founder of one and red worked with coca-cola to use trucks to get drugs to people in rural africa. refrigeration was the key to it. i'll tell you something i've never told anybody, i was in a meeting in coke and i put a can

of coke on the table in atlanta and the c.e.o. looked and i said, that can, we can put it on the cover of "time" magazine, it's going to change the world, but you're going to get into some trouble, but it will be the most incredible riot of interest in your brand that you haven't seen for 20 years. he said, what is it? it's just a regular can. i said, pick it up. he picked it up. he looked at it and said, i'm sorry, i'm not following you. i said, well, look underneath. underneath in the concave space we had a condom. not asking you, not asking you to put this in supermarkets where there is kids, but in sha beams, could we do it? yes, there will be trouble, people upset, you're a conservative company and base, but even the argument will wake up people. >> rose: the idea is the battle against aids. >> yes. so, anyway, of course, take

boring story, throw it in the bin. but the idea -- >> rose: what did they say? it was too hard to handle, that particular thing, but they went on with mutar and took charge, they became a red partner, and they have been great. like apple, starbucks, belvedere, we have so many extraordinary companies now. we're trying to use, to answer your question, finally, we're trying to use everything, everyone. don't leave anyone out of this. this is the most important project ever, which is the project of human dignity, the project of bringing people as of despair when they don't have to live there. >> rose: about giving them the essentials of life. >> yes, it's the most important project. >> rose: shelter, food -- not even giving them, helping

them -- it's by partnering with people. it's like -- >> rose: providing the opportunity. >> yes, the whole thing. >> rose: so they can provide for their own -- >> it's not natural. poverty and despair is not a natural condition, it's manmade and it can be unmade by men, said a famous african nelson mandela. >> rose: yes. but some would ask why you? why you? >> look, i'm not sure. i would say the irishness is part of this is that yeah. >> we call the irish out, we never forget, even across generations. it's probably that, you know, wherever you go in africa, there's people, you know, irish nuns and priests jumping out from behind bushes, and the irish people are very affronted by injustice, very affronted. i mean, everybody is, but i think maybe we're just very

vocal about it and we get organized. >> rose: in the end, you're saying it's your irishness and your life experience. >> it's part of that, and it is because my fate is something i don't feel comfortable talking about, i tried to serve it. i tried to serve -- service, i suppose, is important. it's an old-fashioned, slightly boring word. but that's -- you know, i'm not somebody who can wear that badge and you will easily catch me at it, i'm not a very pious person, but i believe in those values overservice and, you know, i think, in the scriptures, i think it's over 2,000 verses refer to poverty. >> rose: i think that's what christ's mission was about. >> aside from redemption, the

second theme of the entire scriptures is poverty. it's the only time christ speaks of judgment is how we treat the poor, in mathew 25, and he says, you know, how you treat the least of these is how you treat me. you know, people always think, oh, they have been done sexually immoral behavior or stolen something from work or whatever. no, christ never spoke about anything about that. he just spoke about how we treat the poor. in terms of judgmentallism, i think it's important to get our priorities right, you know. >> rose: at some point, people will start asking you this question, they've already asked bill gates this question and i think they know the answer, though bill is very proud of what he did at microsoft. but most people now will say bill gates will be remembered far more for what he has done around the world in terms of

global poverty and malaria, more than the fact that he founded microsoft. is there come a time in which we'll think of bono more about good deeds rather than good music? >> oh, i hope not. i tell you what i'm hoping. one has now 7 million members. 3 million -- the one campaign. >> rose: right. 3 million of them are in africa. i think in the next few years membership south of the equator is going to dwarf the membership north of the equator, and i think their voice is going to drown out ours and mine, and i look forward to the day. and i want to -- >> rose: who are they? our members. >> rose: but who are they? they're the young, the next, the new africans. >> rose: right. they're civil society people. they're university students who

know their potential is not being used, and they're changing their world, and we're just, hopefully, partnering with them. but i think i'm -- i will be, soon, hopefully out of a job as an activist who has to come on, sit at your tiger wood table -- >> rose: you knew it was tiger wood? >> i wanted to know. i was, like, what is this? ( laughter ) >> rose: are your mates wholeheartedly with you on this and say, go to it, brother, we're with you? or do they say, in some cases, did you have to go get involved? >> they are wholeheartedly behind us with caveats. >> rose: what are the caveats? don't make a (bleep) out of yourself. ( laughter ) they don't say that, but i know them. >> rose: don't embarrass us.

by the way, in red, they are enormous contributors. i think they're $15 million into red. red is going to get to half a billion dollars by the end of this replenishment cycle. we just had the largest replenishment cycle in history in canada because prime minister trudeau worked his (bleep) off. >> rose: what do you think of the pope? what is your sense of this pope? >> i haven't met francis. >> rose: you have not met francis? have you asked if. >> i'm due to meet him. we have accordance. he has the -- we have correspondence. he is a remarkable man and what i think, you know, in debt cancellation, all those years ago, the catholic church made debt cancellation a priority. you know, jubilee 2000, they put up in every church, my argument

with the catholic church at the moment is why didn't you tell people what was accomplished, because we succeeded. $120 billion of debts were canceled and that money was spent largely on education, an extra 46 million children went to school. >> rose: you were so alive, talking about this. it is a moving part, an energizing part of who you are, your being today, you know. and, yet, at the same time, the music is there and is central to who you are and central to what defines you. those songs are answers to questions that you ask yourself about who you are and what you're about and memory, you know, and --

>> clearly you love music, so you get it, and, you know, i've become more indulgent in music, probably because in my other life i get to do that. so a danger of so solacism here. >> rose: you like all of it? you mentioned bill gates and microsoft and people forget i'm in u2. you know, i think it's all the same thing. i mean, with bill, part of it is talking about him leaving mime soft. this is a guy who gets to change the world twice. who gets to change it once? he gets to change it twice, first with microsoft and a

foundation eradicating the diseases. i mean, we are one, red, wherever you find people like myself shaking the tree, you will find bill gates and melinda gates are in their camp. we couldn't move without the bill and melinda gates foundation. it's incredible. and it's funny. i remember having my first conversation with bill gates about advocacy and he wasn't sure about it because he's the richest man in the world, but even the richest man in the world discovered, as deep as his pockets were, he had to work in partnerships with governments to really shift the need which is what he's done. >> rose: he couldn't do it and unless you get government involved. government are the only institution that has the resources necessary and the power to do it. it has to lead the way. but what you have done and what bill has done in his own way and others, they have tried to

ignite the resources of the private sector, too, because there is so much talent there. >> right. >> rose: but it's talent. it's about technology, it's about mobilizing, as someone said about winston churchill, he mobilized the english language to defeat hitler. >> that's great. >> rose: it's about mobile idessing, you know, all of these tools to change the world. >> that's great. >> rose: beyond profit. but using profit. >> rose: yeah. and using -- >> rose: profit gives you the premed to do it -- the freedom to do it. >> it's entrepreneurial capitalism is part of the program. by the way, i started out as an activist who had no understanding or even regard for commerce, and now i understand commerce is essential and the

most essential component of taking people out of extreme poverty. i learn from africans to take commerce seriously. the great telekom guy, probably the strongest voice on the continent of africa, he was saying, invest in africa, why don't you. if you believe in us, if you take us seriously, if it's an equal conversation, then trade with us. so i find myself in a plane, over in dara salaam in a small plane, i'm in finnigan's pub telling this, i'm flying over and seeing the quarries and raleway yards and industry and i know what it means, it's jobs and this country tanzania is going to be great, and they're saying, whoa, whoa, brother,

chill. i was, like, whoa! i can go a little too far. but this is the arc of -- theres is where i'm at. >> rose: a couple of points of business for me. when is the album coming out, songs of experience in. >> only god and edge know. >> rose: but a tour in 2017? yes. yes, charlie, there will be! ( laughter ) and i can do that if i want! >> rose: thank you, pal. nice to see you. >> thank you. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by

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man: it's like holy mother of comfort food.ion. woman: throw it down. it's noodle crack. patel: you have to be ready for the heart attack on a platter. crowell: okay, i'm the bacon guy. man: oh, i just did a jig every time i dipped into it. man #2: it just completely blew my mind. woman: it felt like i had a mouthful of raw vegetables and dry dough. sbrocco: oh, please. i want the dessert first! [ laughs ] i told him he had to wait.