>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, the trump campaign struggles with its message. justice stephen breyer and the future of the supreme court. and tennis champion maria sharapova is allowed to return to competition early. >> i have never used the word "rejection" in my life. i don't believe in rejection. i don't believe in "nos." i just get through it. i love-- i was born to be a warrior. >> rose: we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

captioning sponsored by rose communications >> and so you began how? >> figure it all out. >> is it luck at all? >> a celebration in and of itself. >> what's the object lesson here? >> a lot of lives. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. this was the week hurricane matthew devastated haiti and threatened the american east coast. the presidential candidates prepared to meet again for their second debate. and the united states team beat the europeans to take golf's ryder cup for the first time since 2008. and tiger woods announced his return to golf. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. >> this is going to be bad. >> cube athe bahamas, haiti-- all in the bull's eye. >> it is a monster out there. >> the dangerous category four storm with winds of 145 miles per hour. >> rose: another breach at the n.s.a. >> a contractor working for the national security agency arrested for allegedly stealing

highly classified information. >> you know there are more snowdens out there serving in the u.s. government? >> i didn't so until today. >> norway names a new nobel laureate. >> he has consistently sought to move the peace process forward. >> illinois summedded $30 billion in investment activity with wells fargo, due to its phony accounts scandal. >> kim kardashian held up at gunpoint inside her paris hotel room. >> i'm sorry. a family emergency. i have to stop the show. >> rose: the "new york times" digs into trump's taxes. >> he could have paid no federal income taxes for years. >> there's no one who has shown more genius in their way to maneuver around the tax code. >> if everybody in this country was a genius like mr. trump is and did not pay any taxes, we would not have a country. >> he says climate change was a hoax invented by china. >> it's pronounced jina! >> you and hillary clinton would know about an insult-driven campaign. >> i think i'm still on my time.

>> isn't this a discussion. >> she had a private server. >> rose: the running mates' debates. >> tonight is a debate between the vice presidential candidates tim kaine, and mike pence. they're going to debate which one is tim kaine and which one is mike pence. ♪ walk in fields of gold. >> rose: bees make endangered species list ♪ some people call me the space cowboy ♪ >> a spectacular launch. >> blew origin successfully tested its crew escape system. >> once we're completely confident in the vehicle, we'll start taking people into space. >> and touchdown ♪ some people call me maurice >> rose: we fin tonight with politics. the vice presidential nominees had their only debate on tuesday. hillary clinton and donald trump face off again sunday. and we're beginning the final mongst of the 2016 campaign. joining me from washington for the week in politics is bob costa of the "washington post." with me here in new york is amy

chazic of the "new york times." i am pleased to have both of them here. bob costas, let me begin with you. how is trump preparing for this debate? >> trump is preparing in typical trump fashion, charlie. there are no mock debates behind the scenes, not trump standing at a lectern, going through question by question. it's more informal, discussions with new jersey governor chris christie, former new york mayor giuliani. his staff, though dconvince trump on thursday to have a live rub-through, a dry run in new hampshire where he took questions for only about 30 minutes spp as we know, the debate's about 90 minutes. >> rose: amy? what can you tell me about preparation? >> hillary's preparation? well, her aides would say she's been preparing for had town hall-style format her entire campaign. it's been about small events, talking to individual voters one on one and some of her most relatable moments have come from these spontaneous interactions with voters. of course, those voters who come to her event are generally

supporters and this will be a very different format. she has been doing a lot of formal debate prep with her advisers. hillary clinton rather than going over talking points and attack lines is practicing body language-- how does she come across? can she show that softer side of herself? >> rose: bob, with respect to how trump will handle this, is this format good for him in comparison to the first debate or a negative for him? >> there's a divide within trump's circ bell how this will actually unfold, whether it will be better for trump or not, because there's a camp within trump's inner circle that things he's been extemp rains. he's been pretty good in town halls in the past in their view, in terms of making a human connection, of using his celebrity and ease with people to come through ask make a connection. but because of the unscripted nature of this, he can't memorize talking points. it's going to be very unpredictable, in terms of the questions people ask. there is some exprisk there is some vulnerability there what they acknowledge privately.

>> rose: cothey expect to be the subject of goading by her, so what he will do and respond the way he did in the first debate? will she get under his skin? >> they, of course, expect that. they look at the first debate. they look at how senator caine went after the vice presidential candidate for trump, governor pebs, in the v.p. debate. sp they expect he's kind of attacks. what they are hope charlie is not so much for trump to have a response and answer each point by point brought up by secretary clinton. what they would really like him to do is shift, shift in some way back to his economic populism, back on his message on jobs, because they think that's what he kind of failed to do after the first 30 minutes in that first debate where he centered on trade and kind of drifted off as secretary clinton made her critique. >> rose: i assume he'll argue about health care as well? >> there's an encouragement behind the scenes for trump to go after affordable care acts, particularly coming from reince priebus, who has taken an unusual role in these debate

prep sessions, both this past sunday in medminister, new jersey, and this thursday at trump power. priebus is trying on tell trump, my sources tell me, make a case for the republican party, glowft for trump. go over our poants that speaker ryan and others are try to make. >> rose: talk about donald trump's taxes and his refusal to release his tax returns once again dominated some of the campaign news this week. it came after the "new york times" revealed that the republican nominee reported a $960 million loss on hez 19 taxes, a loss that came from failed businesses and may have let him legally avoid paying tax of taxes for 18 years. reporter suesab craig and editor david bafferto broke the story. >> there are a whole tun of

things you can learn, especially from a tax return filed by donald trump. >> rose: so how did this begin? did you get a letter from trump tower? >> i got a letter in the mail. yeah. and i opened it -- >> with a 25-cent stamp or whatever stamps cost today. >> i think there was a "forever" stamp on it, and i opened it up, and it was folded over once, and i looked at it, and it was a 1995 tax return for donald j. trump and marla maples, who signed her name "marla trump." >> rose: and it was three pages of their tax return. >> just three pages. >> rose: were they summary pages? >> summary pages of new york state, connecticut, and new jersey, which, of course, showed a lot of details about what he paid federally. >> rose: and what else is interesting about this? what did you see there gee we saw that they disclose the one dependent. we saw a lot of different lines about how much in wages he disclosed. it was quite low, it was 6,000

and something. >> just over $6,000 in wages, salaries, and tips. >> almost $1 billion in operating losses. >> the numbers were kind of-- honestly, the numbers were mind-boggling. >> we didn't know, when we first got it, we were trying to figure it out, and we got our computers and pulled up the 1995 tax code and we started trying to figure it all out. >> we obviously immediately realized we needed tax help so we brought in some good tax excerpts and i remember one of the tax experts he looked at the numbering and said well, he's only lost $916,000. it was like his brain exoont computer. >> rose: he didn't say $916 million. he said $nine 16 million. >> i said, no, no, look again. >> it was interesting to watch people had they first saw it because the process they went through to say 916, almost million dollars. people had to get their heads around it when you would watch

them. >> rose: what were the components of the 916 million? >> that's an interesting question. we don't really know. a lot of it was lozs from previous years. there was a lot of red ink flowing out of some bankruptcies he had and some big business losses. >> rose: is there a consensus hay think the reason he is withholding his tax returns. >> the leading theory is he wasn't paying federal income taxes, primarily because when you're a real estate develop developer, there's just no better occupation to be in, in this country, to avoid paying income taxs. there's a whole set of just fabulous tax deductions, loopholes, et cetera, that apply specifically to commercial real estate developers that don't apply to anyone else. >> and that gets to the how he managed to do it, which is how i think -- >> how does he manage to do it? >> i think that's one of the things he also doesn't want people to figure out is exactly how he's done it.

>> rose: the supreme court opened its fall session this week in unchartered territory-- eight months after the death of antonin scalia, the court remains still one justice shy of a full bench. just stephen breyers was appointed to the court in 1994, by president bill clinton. i spoke with him about the future of the court wednesday at new york's 92nd street "y." >> it's not so terrible in this country. people have different point of view on the supreme court. it's a big country. >> rose: cothe justices of the supreme court agree much more and rule 9-0 or-- more often than we imagine? in other words, is there more agreement-- let's say you agree 70% of the time-- >> 50%. >> rose: it's 50. >> it's 50% we're unanimous. >> rose: 50% of the time the nine justices agree.

>> yes. and probably it's 5-4 about 20%. and it's not always the same five and the same four. and so i'll say that, you know, to a university audience, law school audience. and then they'll say-- that's our biggest problem. people think we're junior league politicians. that's what they really think. >> rose: are there any experiences, or skills that you wish you had as a justice of the supreme court? >>, of course, what you'd like-- you'd like, number one, you'd like to be able to know all the relevant things and have tremendous experience at different things that you don't have so you can understand-- that's like thurgood marshall saying that. he said that he had, can which was correct-- experience that the others didn't have. >> rose: right. >> and it was valuable having that on a court. it's valuable having a wide range of experience. of course it is. and i would like to be able to

write better than i can. >> rose: you said about justice scalia, you said he suffered from a good writer's disease. >> i have said that. i'd say a good writer, like a good comedian-- if he has a good joke, he's not going to give it up. the world could come to an end and show will he. he will not give it up. and the same is with a felicitous phrase. you find the felicitous phrase and he'll use and because the way it sounds. we all know that, and if it's aimed at us we don't take it personally. >> rose: his vacancy has not been filled. judge garland hab nopinated and will not be considered, and will not be considered perhaps until a new president takes over, perhaps after the election. what's the impact of 4-4? >> oh, 4-4, last year-- we hear -- >> not 5-4, but 4-4. >> i know.

we here 75 to 80 case, somewhere in that range. we decided 4-4-- see if it's 4-4, that's just as if the case was never heard. >> rose: exactly, that's my point. >> that's the point. >> rose: have you changed your mind on any particular-- after 22 years where you-- if you had another go-- >> i can think of a couple, yeah. but normally, we don't look back. we decide. that's the job. decide the case. do your best in that case. absolutely. but eventually, you have to decide. and then move on. >> rose: maureen dowd is a pulitzer prize-winning columnist for the "new york times." her career covering politics spans nine presidential campaigns. in her new book, she describes

this election as the most epic battle of the sexes. the book is called "the year of voting dangerously: the deragement of american politics." >> i majored in shakespeare in college, and it's the closest thing to me that you can get it to being a court-- a royal court reporter. you know, it's the drama, how people respond to power, you know, how either they become better people or it cruments them or the pressure they're under in a campaign is the closest thing you can get to that. and now i'm a "game of thrones "afficionado for the same reason. all of those alliances and fused and trying to get power is fascinating. >> rose: mayhem but not murder. >> ynot yet. >> rose: but trump keeps talking about it. in a sense he said somebody-- i could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and they wouldn't convict

me. my supporters wouldn't convict me. then he made the same kind of reflection on her the other day-- she could shoot somebody and she wouldn't be convicted. >> yes, it's the most incendiary political rhetoric we have ever heard, the craziest. i used to call political strategists to help me analyze want campaigns and now i call shrinks. >> rose: psychologists and shrinks. >> right. >> rose: do they give you helpful advice in understanding why donald trump is the way he is and why hillary clinton is the way she is? >> yes, because with hillary, it's sort of a nixonian paranoia. and with trump, he lacks empathy. so he doesn't understand why he can heckle people and insult them and, you know, they get mad at him. and then when they do something to him, he doesn't understand. for instance, he didn't understand why the bushes wouldn't come to his convention. he was really hurt, but he doesn't understand -- >> what he said about their son.

>> in his head, he thinks he's doing what he needs to do now, and then later, he'll be really flexible. you know, he said to me, "the 'new york times' will be very happy with me when i become president because i will be the kind of president they like." i said to him, "i don't recognize you on the public stage. you are this bigoted person who is spreading hate, and that's not person i knew in new york for three decades." and, you know, he said, "i can be that person again." anyone "i can be very presidential." but i think he just feels that he's riding this train, and he doesn't realize that train is taking him to very dark places. >> rose: maria sharapova is a five-time grand slam tennis champion. she is one of the world's

highest profile athletes. her future was thrown into doubt last january at the industrialian open when she tested positive for a wanned substance. i spoke with her on tuesday, an exclusive urnt view, shortly after a court of arbitration announced it was reducing her suspension from 24 months it to 15 and concluded she was unaware that a substance she had been taking for 10 years had recently been banned. tell me your reaction. >> friday morning was a beautiful day for me and my family and my friends, just the thought of coming back-- i was in my bedroom and the received the note from cass. and i just screamed down to the first floor to my mother that i'm can coming back. yeah, the last seven months or so, i've just-- i've been really strong. i knew that i had to, can and then i she came up, she ran up the stairs, and i gave her a

hug, and all of of a sudden evidence just so emotional. it was like everything let go, because something thatimented so much, i was having another opportunity at it. >> rose: how heavy did it hang on you? >> it -- >> your suspension. >> it was a lot. it was a lot. and it was-- i went through so many different emotions from finding out when i received the first e-mail that i had taken the substance and that it was a shock to me. i said how did i not know about this? so i went through this shock, anger, sadness, and then i-- i don't know, something inside of me just went above everything, and i felt like it was almost the process of going through a breakup. and i went through all these emotions . >> rose: a breakup? >> yes. i went through all these emotions, and in the end-- like after a little time, i just-- i felt really above it. there's some sort of strength in me that-- that just felt really good about things. and i went through two different

hearings, and all, obviously, it was i was very nervous about all of them. but i was so strong inside, and i knew that-- i knew that the truth of my story and me being up front and honest from the beginning would get me through this, and it did. >> rose: do you feel like it's a fair description of you to say-- being defined as tough in the face of adversity, that somehow the kind of life you have lived has given you some of that stuff? >> i believe so. and i've-- i've never used the word "rejection" in my life. i don't believe in rejection. i don't-- i don't believe in "nos." y just get through it. i was born to be a warrior, and in tennis and in my life -- >> how were you born to be a warrior? >> because there's something-- when i've-- when i've had challenges in my life, i've perce veered, and i,-- and that's not just in me. i feel that in-- whether you're a tennis player, whether you're in another career, when you have

challenging moments in your life-- my first one in my life came when i had shoulder surgery. i was out per a year. and there is something during that period that-- that builds-- you don't know it's happening, but it's something inside of you that builds. it almost becomes an immunity to pain almost. and during that time, i was training. i was doing everything i could with no knowledge that i would ever go back on the tennis court after shoulder surgery with no one they could look to that ever came back and won a grand slam after shoulder surgery. but i went through it and day after day after day, i grinded it out. i kept going. and when i went back on the court and i was playing tournaments and i was making errors and, you know, losing matches, maybe i shouldn't have lost, and people were saying, "she's never going to come back." nothing fazed me, because something they built inside of myself, this strength that i built over that time got me through that.

>> rose: issa ray began producing comedy for the web while still in college. 10 years later she became the executive producer and star of "insecure" a new series on hbo. she made the juch to television with the help of her cocreator, larry wilmore. >> i wanted to break into the television industry, and i felt like i found a shortcut by way of the internet. and i found that by way of procrastination, being on facebook and youtube. and spurred the idea, oh, my gosh, what if i made a show online to share with my friends. and that became "dorm diaries" about being black at brandeis university. and i saw that spread to other schools on a very minor scale,

500 to 1,000 views. and people were like, "oh, my god, this is my college experience." and i helt felt i had direct access to an audience and that was in 2007. that was my first web series, and i created another one in 209 and 2011. >> rose: when did you meet larry? >> i met larry, after i sold pitch to hbo for "insecure." they said you'll be a supervising producer or runner because you have never run a room before. we had the same management company, and they said you should meet with him, and if you like him, great, if not, find somebody else. and we immediately clicked on the first meet. he is so great and gracious and fun disple and you just talked? >> we just talked. we had a conversation. we got to know each other. and by the second meeting he said, "i really like what you've built here and i'd like to write this show with you if you don't mind." and i was like, if i don't mind?

heck, yes, let's do it." >> rose: did hbo say we want you to do something for us, or did you say, based on the success that you'd had on the web go to them and say,"look, this is what i do. i can do this in a larger, bigger, broader way." >> they actually called me which was a celebration in and of itself. they called me a short time after i had-- i had another series on another network that was passed on. and i was kind of devastated and thought i blew my shot, and then they called me a month later and said, "hey, we heard you're free. do you have any ideas? so i pitched them the concept -- >> "insecure." which is? >> it's basically the chronicles of a modern-day black woman and her friend. >> rose: two of them. >> two of them. >> i always listen to you. >> you only listen to me because i make you feel better about you! >> so two friends navigating their jobs, their relationships, each other, and just dealing with what it means to be a black

woman today. >> rose: here is a look at the week ahead. sunday is the day of the second presidential debate at washington university in st. louis. monday is columbus day. tuesday is the day musician darrell hall celebrates his 70th birthday. wednesday is the start of professional hockey's 2017 season. thursday is the 100th pulitzer prize ceremony in new york. friday is the first game of major league baseball's championship series. saturday is the opening of the bricks annual economic summit in india. and here is what's new for your weekend: the 17th annual new york festival runs all weekend in new york city. >> a lot of communication can happen in silence. but you have to listen. >> rose: nate parker's slave

drama "the birth of a nation" is released in theaters ♪ we'll rise up and we'll do it 1,000 times aain ♪ >> rose: and the rolling stones, bob dylan, paul mccartney, neal young, roger waters and the who headline the desert trip music festival in california. is there that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. on behalf of all of us here, thank you for watching. i'm charlie rose. we'll see you next time. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh