captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, less than three weeks to election day. some red-leaning states have become unexpected battlegrounds. and the impact that's having down ballot. and, a maryland man accused of stealing a massive amount of classified data from the national security agency was declared a flight risk today and is expected to be charged with espionage. then, mark shields and david brooks analyze this week full of election news. plus, garrison keiller hands over the reins: musician chris thile re-imagines the classic public radio variety show, "prairie home companion" for a younger audience and a new era.

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>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the presidential campaigns focused on states most up for grabs today, with republican donald trump promising no regrets in the remaining weeks of his campaign. it was a battle of the battleground states today... >> in 18 days, we are gonna win north carolina. >> hello ohio! >> woodruff: donald trump campaigned in the tar heel state, where he went after hillary clinton for a paid speech she made to a brazilian bank. it was revealed through hacked emails. >> speaking in secret to a foreign bank, hillary clinton said her dream is for totally open trade. there goes your business.

and totally open borders. there goes your country. there goes your country, oh, we love wikileaks. >> woodruff: then, he was off to pennsylvania for two more rallies. clinton's battleground stop was in neighboring ohio, in cleveland. >> on wednesday night, donald trump did something no other presidential nominee has ever done. he refused to say that he would respect the results of this election. (audience booing) now, make no mistake -- by doing that, he is threatening our democracy. >> woodruff: last night, the rivals sat practically side-by- side, at the alfred e. smith dinner in new york. the fundraiser for catholic charities is traditionally a place for political roasts. neither candidate held their punches, and one was booed. >> we've learned so much from wikileaks. for example, hillary believes

that it is vital to deceive the people by having one public policy and a totally different policy in private. >> donald wanted me drug tested before last night's debate. and look, i am so flattered that donald thought i used some sort of performance enhancer. now, actually i did. it's called preparation. >> woodruff: the clinton campaign, out with an ad featuring khizr kahn, a muslim american whose son died while serving in the u.s. army in iraq. >> i want to ask mr. trump: would my son have a place in your america? >> woodruff: the ad will air in key battleground states. in new hampshire, where trump is lagging, conservatives turned their focus to the senate. >> no matter who the next

president is, new hampshire needs a strong voice in the u.s. senate. that senator: kelly ayotte. >> woodruff: ayotte faces a difficult re-election bid, and hers is one the toss-up seats that could determine control of the senate, in just 18 days. we'll hear more about those down-ballot senate and house races after the news summary. in the day's other news, russia extended a pause in fighting in aleppo, syria, for a third day, to allow people to receive aid. that after the u.n. said planned evacuations of the rebel-held east were halted, due to a lack of security guarantees from the warring sides. meanwhile, addressing a meeting in geneva, the u.n.'s high commissioner for human rights again denounced russian and syrian airstrikes. >> indiscriminate air strikes across the eastern part of the city by government forces and their allies are responsible for the overwhelming majority of civilian casualties, and these

violations constitute war crimes, and if knowingly committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against civilians, they constitute crimes against humanity. >> woodruff: separately, the united nations set up a special inquiry today to investigate alleged human rights abuses in aleppo. in iraq, islamic state militants launched attacks today in and around the northern city of kirkuk. suicide bombers stormed a power plant, killing 13 workers, including four iranians. explosions and gunfire echoed throughout that area for hours. the assault was apparently aimed at diverting iraqi and kurdish forces away from their massive offensive in isis-held mosul. a passenger train derailed in the central african country of cameroon today, killing at least 55 people and injuring nearly 600 more.

some 1,300 people were on board, more than twice the normal load. first responders struggled to pull mud-soaked victims from the wreckage. heavy rains had caused several roads in the area to collapse. back in this country, a series of cyber attacks made dozens of popular websites inaccessible today, from twitter to the music streaming site spotify. the hack targeted the new hampshire-based internet infrastructure provider dyn. the attacks were launched from devices infected with malware, from millions of i.p. addresses around the world. the f.b.i. is still working to determine who's behind the hack. the president of the philippines has clarified comments he made yesterday about a separation from the united states. rodrigo duterte says he's not cutting ties with the u.s., but rather meant the philippines "need not dovetail the foreign policy of america." in washington, white house spokesman josh earnest voiced concern about the leader's

recent pronouncements. >> we've seen too many troubling public statements from president duterte over the last several months. and the frequency of that rhetoric has added an element of unnecessary uncertainty into our relationship that doesn't advance the interests of either country. >> woodruff: the u.s. and the philippines have been allies for 70 years. a u.s. navy warship sailed near disputed islands in the south china sea today, drawing a stern rebuke from china. the u.s.s. "decatur" drew close to the paracel islands, one of the territories contested by china and its neighbors, before two chinese ships warned it to leave. china's defense ministry called the move "illegal" and "provocative." and stocks were mixed on wall street today. the dow jones industrial average lost 16 points to close at 18,145. the nasdaq rose 15 points, and the s&p 500 slipped a fraction of a point. for the week, all three indexes gained a fraction of a percent.

still to come on the newshour, the road to the white house and the likelihood democrats could take back the senate. a former n.s.a. contractor to be charged with espionage after a massive data breech. mark shields and david brooks take on the week's political news, and much more. >> woodruff: we return to the presidential election. now for a look at where the race stands, what each nominee's path to victory is and how down ballot races are shaking out this year, we are joined by our own correspondent lisa desjardins and nathan gonzales, editor of the "rothenberg & gonzales political report" and elections editor for roll call. and hello to both of you. so nathan, let's start with you. the electoral vote map has

shifted a little. tell us what things look like now. >> secretary clinton has had the advantage both in the national vote and also the electoral college for quite some time. now there are a couple of states, florida and north carolina, just moved from tossup to tilting democratic, and that just adds to the 270 electoral votes. right now on our map we have over 323 electoral votes. the two tossups that are remaining, i think, are iowa and ohio. if you told republicans you would win iowa or ohio, a state president obama won twice, i think they would be ecstatic. but florida, wisconsin, north carolina, nevada, all these other states are in poor shape and a soft underbelly of traditionally republican states trump is risking losing as well. >> woodruff: lisa, given that, what is is donald trump's path forward? >> don't you wonder? this is where i get to say let's look at the map. i think the best way to think of

it is he needs to win 64 more electoral votes than mitt romney did in 2012. the simplest way is the big three states, that's pennsylvania, ohio and florida. problem there, pennsylvania, donald trump has not won a poll in pennsylvania since june, since before his convention. so let's imagine pennsylvania is off the plate. let's also imagine -- we don't know if this will happen -- that florida and ohio for the sake of argument go trump, that's what he's hoping for. what then? look at the remaining swing states we have across the country. donald trump now has to win two or three of these in order to become president. these are states like colorado, wisconsin, michigan, virginia, where they have in common, as you just heard from nathan, they've all been moving in hillary clinton's direction strongly. just iowa remains as a swing state in that group and as nathan said, he has problems on home turf like arizona, places moving away from him, and

north carolina that he needs to keep. >> woodruff: those are tough gets for donald trump, aren't they? >> yes, and this is going to be tough for any republican nominee. there were four tossups coming into the election, ohio, florida, colorado and virginia. once we saw colorado and virginia moving toward hillary clinton, it had to be pennsylvania or another a big state and it's not coming poght. >> woodruff: lisa, you've looked at the polls and why it is that hillary clinton has moved up, and i think it's interesting these results. >> a lot of people might think women are shifting. no, the polls in these key states moving the most, it's men who are changing. when you look at polls out of nevada, monmouth polls this month versus last month show men under 50 years old voting 53% for hillary clinton right now, but a month ago 29% -- an unbelievable shift of 24 points in a month -- and you see this in other states and nationally. it seems men are moving away

from donald trump right now. >> woodruff: there are stories all over the map. nathan, let's talk about the senate seats. right now, it is very much in republican hands. republicans seem to be holding on to that majority till recently, but now with this shift at the presidential level, what's happening? >> sure. democrats need to gain four seats in order to get to 50. vice president tim kaine will be the tie breaker. four is the magic number. for most of the cycle, republican candidates were resilient based on donald trump at the ticket. but then the access hollywood tape, second debate and now a steep decline in trump's numbers. the presidential race has always had an impact on senate races, but as his hole gets deeper that increases the number of ticket splitters these members need to survive. >> woodruff: what are democratic chances to survive in the senate?

>> this is a case where republicans walked in with a disadvantage. if you look at all the seats that are tossups this year, about eight of them we'll put on this map, the vast majority are red, held by republicans. there is one nevada that democrats are defending. if you take these seats, seems the most vulnerable for republicans are wisconsin and illinois. so let's imagine they go democratic. that's two of the four nathan says democrats need. then we've got six remaining swing states that, of those, democrats need to win three. so is that maybe a win in pennsylvania and new hampshire where kelly ayote was doing well and now having a problem, same thing in pennsylvania where we see the incumbent senator toomey is also having a problem. they were outperforming trump a month ago. now they're on the ropes. democrats need to just pick up three of this group of six swing senate seats. it's getting more and more within their reach. >> woodruff: nathan, if things

look better for the democrats in the senate, what about the house? that's been a reach. what about now? >> democrats need 30 seats to gain 30 seats. -- 30 when competitive is tough. they basically have to run the table. so far we haven't seen a uniform drop in republican candidate support across the country. there are vulnerable districts out there, but i think the margin is closer to 10, 15 seats, 20 seats rather than 30. because trump is getting destroyed in the suburbs. he is causing suburban republican incumbents to be vulnerable in the suburbs. but he's going well in rural michigan. michigan's first district, a seattimes have to win, but trump's performance is actually helping republicans keep that seat. >> so republicans losing some seats but not anywhere near enough to lose the majority? >> right now, doesn't look like the majority is in danger.

two weeks can be a lot of time in the house races are the latest ones to develop. >> woodruff: two and a half weeks to go. nathan gonzales, lisa desjardins, thank you. >> thanks. >> woodruff: next, a judge ruled today that a maryland man accused of stealing massive amounts of information from the national security agency was a flight risk and will remain in federal custody. william brangham has the story. >> brangham: this past august, harold martin iii was arrested at his home in the maryland suburbs of washington d.c. in his house, investigators discovered the equivalent of half a billion pages of documents and electronic data, some allegedly taken from the n.s.a.'s headquarters at nearby fort meade. among the documents were marked "top secret" and according to reports, some also included code used by the n.s.a. to hack into the computer networks of foreign governments. joining me now for more on this case is matt apuzzo, who's been

covering this story for the "new york times." matt apuzzo, welcome. i wonder if you would start off by laying out the case against this gentleman, and what is his defense? >> well, what is fascinating is there is the case that's been brought and it's you said, is this guy had terabytes, billions of pages of documents in his house, shed, in the back seat of his car, in the trunk of his car and, obviously, you're not supposed to do that. so there is that case. but then there is this other case that's kind of looming over all this, and the question is, is he the guy who, not too long ago, facilitated the release of n.s.a. documents basically for ransom, put them up for sale online? these were hacking tools, the way the united states government hacks into other countries an businesses and whatnot. so that's really what's going on

here. he mishandled classified information, basically admitted that, but is he part of some network that's putting information up for sale? >> brangham: this originally came about as a group called the shadow brokers who were auctioning off this software. is it correct that investigators who were looking into that release and that case, that's how they discovered martin? >> yeah. what we're told here is that martin sort of popped up on the radar screen during the early parts of the investigation into the shadow brokers release and using some clever forensics and old-fashioned investigative skills, we're able to identify martin, and then when they raided his house, i think they were stunned to find as much stuff as they found. we're talking about 20 years of classified information, a catalog of how the n.s.a. stored data. he has stuff on paper, c.d.s, thumb drives. it tells a story and it's an archive of the n.s.a.

>> brangham: what is martin's defense? >> we haven't heard a full defense. our understanding of what he's told the f.b.i. is he acknowledges that he took the stuff and he wasn't supposed to take it, but there seems to be a little bit of, well, i was taking this stuff home to study it to become better at my job, to become a better patriot, to be a better n.s.a. contractor. unlike somebody like edward snowden, who had, you know, a privacy, a libertarian bend, what we're hearing about martin is he was very rah-rah for the n.s.a. and its programs and believed he was a patriot. >> brangham: has the government indicated what they think his motive might be? why would he have these tools in his house? >> great question. more so, he's been doing it 20

years, -- why if he was doing it 20 years, but why would he start now? i think if the government would have known it, we would have seen it in the court documents and in court. a lot of federal investigators are scratching their heads saying we know we have a big case and a lot of smoke, but can we link him to the leaked documents and to a foreign intelligence service? so far, that isn't materialized in a provable way. >> brangham: more broadly, can we talk about how damaging this might be for the n.s.a.? this is a second instance where an n.s.a. contractor has walked out the door with truckloads of incredibly valuable data. what is the impact on the n.s.a. from this kind of a thing? >> sure. i think one of the things, the damage and risk assessment is going on, and one of the questions they will have to face is, if they can't figure out if any of the data has been compromised, do they have to assume that it's all been compromised? and does that mean you have to

start shutting down programs? but from a practical standpoint, it really does boggle the mind, that you can, for 20 years, just walk out of the building with papers and thumb drives and c.d.s and whatnot. it certainly does make you wonder how that happens, and you can bet that that's going to be something they will be looking awfully hard at. after edward snowden, too, that we're still having this discussion, it does bog the mind. >> a case for all of us to keep watching as it goes forward. matt apuzzo with the "new york times." thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. >> woodruff: stay with us, coming up on the newshour, the growing burden of student debt. and a new, younger sound for the radio variety show "a prairie home companion." but first, for the second time this week, we get the analysis

of shields and brooks. that's syndicated columnist mark shields, and "new york times" columnist david brooks, who's joining us today from houston. and it's so exciting, we get to see you twice this week. the first time, mark, was after wednesday night's debate, the final debate between the presidential candidates. what is has changed since then? >> the third debate, an awareness donald trump is not an intelligent man. he understood two things after the debates, a, that hillary clinton had beaten him in three debates, she was better prepared, she outflanked him tactically, she got him to go for the bait on things like choked when meeting with the president in mexico, and also there has to be the understanding that because he was trailing, has been trailing in the polls, this was the last great chance for the two candidates to collide, on the

same stage, he could challenge, change the terms of the debate, he didn't. he, i think almost as a consolation, has tried to divert the debate that he's losing to a discussion -- i mean to a reckless and dangerous discussion about the legitimacy of the american elections, something that's never been challenged before by any major party candidate. >> woodruff: where do you see things, david. >> i think there is an acceptance in donald trump's frame and the republican party about the likelihood he'll lose and the question becomes how do people react? in idaho, i ran into a guy that said trump will win because everybody is voting for him. i tried to argue with the guy saying in the polls he is not leading. the guy wouldn't accept that. it's not part of his lived reality. you get a sense from a guy like that if trump loses we will be angry and sensitive to the idea the election is rigged. yesterday i was in mississippi. there was a quietude and

passivity and acceptance in a lot of the groups i spoke to. even if he does protest the election in some way, i think there will be some acceptance he lost fair and square. >> woodruff: how much fallout is there over trump's unwillingness to say that he will accept the results of the election, whatever they are? >> well, first of all, judy, it puts other republican candidates in a terrible position. i mean, you've noticed the parade, the cavalcade of republicans attesting their beliefs in the ballot box, the belief in the legitimacy and validity of american elections. republicans are on the ballot on november 8, do they want the legitimacy tested? it's not restricted to the trump

people. there are democrats who don't believe -- there is a divide in this country like i've never seen before. if you're on the other side from me, you're not simply wrong or ill-informed or mistaken, we don't share the same country, the same values. you may not be the same kind of an american i am. i think it's really dangerous and it's an enormous challenge for the next president. >> woodruff: so, david, you're seeing that out there on the trail, if you will, where you have been traveling around the country. i want to ask you, though, about trump's continued -- i don't know, how do you describe the state he's in? he goes to the al smith dinner in new york city last night. this gets a lot of coverage today where instead of doing the self-deprecating jokes people traditionally do, he continues to go hard after hillary clinton. does it matter at this point that he's still angry? >> well, angry is what he does. i have to say i read all the coverage and expecting to be appalled by his speech and

cheered by clinton's. i thought they were both too harsh. his was worse but hers was not funny or particularly well delivered. eth will be a dreary couple of years of comedy acts no matter who is elected. i think his attacks, the line she hates catholics, is just tone deaf and inner bitterness coming to the surface in unattractive ways. i do think starting with not only -- but continuing with the claim he won't accept automatically the results of the election does fundamentally undermine the etiquette we have built up in our society. our system is not only based on rules but a series of self restraints that we won't be as barbaric as we could be in competing for power because the whole country and society falls apart. my critique from conservatives who say i hate the guy but i need to vote for him because to have the supreme court, the problem is the moral foundation of the society, the way we interact with each other is more fundamental than the supreme

court and if that gets polluted or destroyed by someone who's brutalistic and savage, it doesn't matter who's on the supreme court because we lost our country. so the argument that the supreme court is worth it is basically the wrong argument when he's behaving that way. >> woodruff: pick up on that, mark. >> al smith, it's a marvelous occasion, it's where candidates do come. one of the first thing every press secretary assures you is the boss has a wonderful sense of humor because not to have a sense of humor is considered flagrantly un-american. i remember george w. bush at dinner in 2000 standing up and saying, look at this audience, designer dresses and white tie and tails, the haves and the have mores. some people call you the elite, i call you my base. so he was laughing at himself that he was the candidate of the well off or whatever else. i think trump missed this completely. but i agree with david that

there was too much of an edge even in clinton's remarks. but trump just missed the whole thing, and it's a tone deafness that's unsettling. >unsettling. >> woodruff: let's talk mark and david about what hillary clinton is saying on the trail. she isn't hitting as many campaign stops as he is but, david, we see today she is talking to voters and saying things like think about the future of the country, what sort of future do you want, what sort of country do you want. she said at one point, you live your life, i'll do the worrying. does it sound like she's already winding this thing down? >> there is a lot of let's go for the landslide talk out of the democratic party which under normal rules of campaigning, that's a no no. you want people to come out and not think we have this one in the bag. so they may be trying to renounce the whole trump idea, i

get that, but it's come out in the wikileaks and evident in the debate, it's not clear what the core passion is. what is the core, animating thing she would go to the mat for. i think that's true still. in her rallies this week, i think it's evident she doesn't have a core passion except denying donald trump the presidency. i hope she finishes with something in the likelihood she wins, something to coast off of to give herself a sense of priorities for the next few months and the first hundred days. >> woodruff: that's a critique you and david have been making for some time. >> competitively. david makes it freshly. >> woodruff: some version of it, you both have been critical of her for not having a theme to her campaign. do you just at this point assume we're not going to hear it. >> yeah, i don't think it's

there. i don't think the lift of a driving dream or whatever, the obama lift, the reagan rift, i don't think it's there. >> woodruff: stronger together doesn't -- >> stronger together is, i think, a preposition and comparative adjective, but it's not really an action verb. i do think it makes sense for the democrats that trump has done a favor for them as far as turnout because there isn't that kind of enthusiasm and passion for her candidacy. by his question of legitimacy, the idea your vote does count and matter because, if it's close, he's going to raise questions about it. so i think, in a strange way, he's become the turnout agent for demcratic voting on november 8 by his questioning of the legitimacy and they say he's going to challenge whether the constitutionality of the vote. so i think, in that sense, it works. but don't think we're going to

get that -- not going to take us to the top of the mountain. >> woodruff: is he doing her that favor? go ahead, david. >> i would say i ran into a guy in new orleans, because i'm going to the fun places, too, and he said he was going to vote for neither of the candidates just because he was so appalled until that trump reference to not respecting the election results and then he decided to go for clinton because he said, listen, this guy's got to lose badly, we at least have to defend that principle. i think what he said overshadowed everything he said in the debate and will drive up clinton's margins potentially. >> woodruff: there is so much talk in the country about how divided the country will still be, mark, after this election. is there anything these candidates can do, either the candidates at the top of the ticket, paul ryan or any of the other candidates can do to begin to address that, or do you just wait till the election is over and hope it works out? >> you hope that there will be a sense of resolution.

i think democrats ought to be concerned, judy, that the party, in this election, has become almost prideful about the college-educated votes it's getting, the support hillary clinton is getting against donald trump. understandably, the white working class voters have felt abandoned, have felt, in many senses, dispar randall by the political -- disparaged by the political leadership of the company and they have been the core of the democratic party, the great stories of fighting for the underdog. and i think the democrats, i would hope hillary clinton and the democratic leadership would not be quite as smug about saying, oh, we've got the college educated, aren't we something, and understand that the anger and the sense of outrage and hurt that these people are feeling, many of whom are supporting donald trump, is legitimate and real and they

feel abandoned by the democratic party, by washington and certainly hurt by wall street. >> woodruff: so, david, no matter what the outcome, the democrats are due for some soul searching along with the republicans? >> well, everybody. i mean, i certainly hear a lot of people say that trump not only incited bad things, he also exposed things. he exposed pain in the country that a lot of us didn't have a full extent of and some of the divisions in the country, so that's been an education donald trump has given us to his credit. secondly, i heard a lot of desire for a snapback, that we've had so much vulgarity, so much throwing away of any standards of decency, that there is been a lot of people coming and saying, no, on matters of how we talk to each other and respect each other and relate to each other, let's not only stop do this, let's snap back and address the problems we have been suffering under in this

election campaign. >> woodruff: wouldn't that be something. >> the culture of the campaign did not begin with donald trump. we have had that in our country in the last generation. >> woodruff: mark shields, david brooks, thank you both. >> woodruff: student debt has been a big talking point on the 2016 campaign trail. hillary clinton proposes making tuition free for many students at public colleges. donald trump would expand limits on how much borrowers have to pay back each month. but what about those already holding debt? we take a look as part of our series, "how the deck is stacked," funded by the corporation for public broadcasting in partnership with "frontline" and "marketplace." marketplace's lizzie o'leary has the first of two stories. >> reporter: if everything had gone according to plan, chris

savelle would be on wall street right now, not biking through downtown detroit in a free, weekly community ride. savelle, who is 31, graduated into the teeth of the recession. he's got $100,000 in student loan debt on his mind. what does $100,000 feel like? >> it sucks. >> reporter: jessica love jordan is in a similar situation-- she started college late and is now working on finishing her masters in addiction counseling. she juggles school, work and being a single parent. sometimes the debt feels too much. >> when i look at the statement, and see how much i actually have to pay back, it's almost suffocating. i have those fleeing thoughts, let me just stop now. go work so i'll be able to live later on in life. >> reporter: when she graduates, she can expect to make about $33,000 annually as an addiction counselor. her debt will be about $90,000. the median student debt is much lower than savelle or love- jordan's-- about $27,000.

but their experiences are similar to those of many students who attended state universities at a time when their budgets were being cut, and as the great recession hit. that money had to come from somewhere. in most cases, students. where did you think you would be in your life at 31? >> work for an investment firm or hedge fund, chicago, new york, something like that. >> reporter: but when savelle graduated in 2008, the best job he could find was at a local walmart. he's recovered somewhat now. he works as a supply chain engineer, and supports his mother and sister. temple university professor sara goldrick-rab has been researching the rising price of college for years. how has the aid picture changed as median incomes have stagnated, really, for the last 20 years? >> the sticker price on a per student basis has gone up a lot while the amount of financial aid on a per student basis has gone down. the result is that the net

price, the amount that the families actually pay out of their pocket is rising and it's rising fairly rapidly. >> reporter: more than 40 million americans have student loan debt-- the total amount is around $1.3 trillion. even so, there are experts like sandy baum, who studies student debt at the urban institute, and says only certain people are being hurt. >> student debt is a crisis for some people but student debt is not the generalized crisis that the common discourse would make it appear. yes, people are paying more of their incomes for a college education, but still it's worth it for most people but not for everyone. >> reporter: sara goldrick raab says far too many people are saddled with substantial debt. you wrote that debt is a symptom, not the disease. it sounds like you think the disease is the high price. >> the disease is the price. we have a problem where people are being priced out of college and in their effort to not be priced out, they're taking on

debt that frankly, they're going to have real trouble repaying. >> reporter: people like jordan hoeft. he's been trying to get a more manageable payment plan. he studied film, but couldn't get a job in the industry. he now owes $100,000 in private student loans but was paying interest only until recently. he lives at home in the chicago suburbs with his parents. they already were tapped out after helping his siblings with loans. so jordan's parents asked his grandparents to co-sign. and when his debt piled up, the loan servicer came calling. >> my father co-signed for some of the kids loans after patrick and i were tapped out on signing co-signing for them. my father passed away and within 60 days of my dad passing away the private student loan venders were calling my mom harassing her wanting her to pay the balance in full, >> reporter: the whole thing? >> the whole balance and he,

they were not in arrears at all. my mom called me crying saying i don't have that money and they want me to pay this loan and i said oh no. >> reporter: she must have been terrified? >> she was hysterical. >> reporter: jordan hoeft's loans are serviced by navient, which spun off from sallie mae, and now owns its student debt business. it is one of the nation's largest student debt servicers. the company handles both private and federal loans. hoeft's loans are private, not federal, and had a high interest rate. >> i told them almost as a joke i said i can either have you guys lower my payments so i can make rent and then pay you or i can live in my truck and make the full payments to you every month and the woman on the phone dead serious told me i don't want to tell you to have to live in your truck but you might have to live in your truck. >> reporter: we asked navient about that phone call and they told us: "...our representative sympathizes with mr. hoeft, and the two establish a rapport in

which she dismisses his facetious comment that he may need to live in his car. our representative did not urge him to live in his car, rather she encourages him to consider a practical option such as finding a roommate to split expenses." jordan and his mother decided to do something about how they were being treated by their servicer and reached out to their state's top law enforcement officer. >> i have seen an increasing number of fraud complaints. >> reporter: lisa madigan is the attorney general for illinois. after noticing a rise in complaints against companies involved in higher education, madigan filed lawsuits against several for-profit schools. now, she is leading a multi- state investigation into navient. why did you decide to look at navient? >> it was the volume of complaints that we received and the serious nature of them. we have looked at over 5,000 complaints, we've listened to over 800 phone calls, and we've been able to determine that time and time again, the servicers are not providing borrowers with their repayment options. >> reporter: the majority of student loans are federal and

originate with the department of education but they're contracted out to a handful of companies who manage the payments. it's a $140 billion industry annually, and servicers, like navient, make about $2 billion in commission per year. >> most of the time what they do if someone is struggling it they'll put them into a forbearance, which is not going to make that debt any more manageable. in fact, it will often tend to grow that debt. >> reporter: there are several ways to reduce monthly payments, deferment or forbearance temporarily postpones federal student loan payments, but interest may continue to accrue while payments are on hold. for federal loans, there are several income-based repayment options, where a borrower can pay a portion of their discretionary income from 10% down to zero if they're unemployed. madigan thinks servicers are pushing borrowers into forbearance. >> unfortunately, the way it ends up working out is it's good for the servicer because they're incentivized through their compensation to get people

through the process, but it is bad for the borrower which is ultimately bad for that person's family and bad for our overall economy. >> reporter: navient declined to comment directly on madigan's investigation and instead sent this statement: "navient is a leader in enrolling eligible borrowers into income-driven repayment programs." "...we have been strong advocates for streamlining the enrollment process to make it easier for borrowers." pbs newshour requested an interview with the department of education. it declined. the department pointed us to this policy memo suggesting servicers provide better information to borrowers, but any changes, if approved, wouldn't take effect until 2019. borrowers like jordan hoeft may never see any changes. seth frotman of the consumer finance protection bureau says his agency is tracking complaints. the agency has started monitoring many key financial players including loan service companies. >> there's an amazing government audit that found that 70% of

federal student loan borrowers in default, so have defaulted on their loans were actually eligible for income-generated payment plan as low as zero dollars. i think that's an abysmal failure and i think that's a direct implication of student loan servicers and the oversight over student loan servicer. >> reporter: the borrowers most likely to default? those with $10,000 or less in student loans. they have lower debt, but are less likely to have completed their degrees and may have lower earnings. chris savelle's debt has affected his little sister's future as well. if it weren't for chris's debt, do you think katie would be in a four-year school now? >> i think if she could see that she could get an education without having a lifetime of crushing debt, i think she would. >> reporter: the legacy of chris's debt will be with him, his sister and his whole generation, long after it's paid. for the pbs newshour, this is lizzie o'leary in detroit, michigan >> woodruff: in our next piece, we'll look at what happens to

some students at for-profit schools. online, our coverage continues with a look at which student loan companies accrue the most complaints by borrowers. >> woodruff: it's never easy to step in and take over a popular show, especially one that was hosted for more than 40 years by its creator and stamped with his personality. but as the new season kicks in for one of public radio's longtime favorites, jeffrey brown has the story of how a new host is trying to put his own spin on it. >> i suspect we're going to have some fun this evening. >> brown: the new "prairie home companion," still at the beautiful fitzgerald theater in downtown st. paul, minnesota. still a two-hour variety show presented live on public radio. but now led by 35 year old chris

thile. >> i'm obsessed with the good things that people make to give to one another. this show is a place, has been one of america's most consistent sources of good things for 40 years. i feel like it's imperative that it continue. >> brown: since it's founding in 1974, of course, "prairie home companion" has been synonymous with one man: garrison keillor. he hosted it, wrote it, embodied it with a sense of the people and place he knew in his bones. >> that's the news from lake wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good looking. >> brown: two years ago on this very stage, keillor told me of the magic of radio and storytelling. >> i think there's-- there's a lot of power in listening to one person talking to you. and-- and this should never be

underestimated. >> brown: it was keillor who hand-picked his successor, one who'd been performing on the show since age 15 and had listened to it even earlier. >> some of my earliest memories are of hearing garrison keillor's voice in our living room, at a point when i couldn't even tell the difference between his voice and my father's voice. like an authoritative paternal sound coming from the radio. >> brown: thile, who grew up in southern california, was a child prodigy on the mandolin, with groups like nickel creek, and the punch brothers, he grew into a leader of a new generation of bluegrass-based, genre-bending musicians. he can seemingly do anything with his instrument: i first spoke to thile three years ago when he recorded an album of bach partitas. >> the fugal pieces where

they're all about precision and these second voices come in and then there's a third voice. >> you guys are on a historic mission! >> brown: musician, band leader, showman, and now, host of a program that's lost listeners in recent years, but still reaches some three and a half million. we watched rehearsal the day before the first live show. during a break, thile spoke of the challenge of bringing in new and younger viewers, while replacing garrison keillor. >> i believe strongly that quality is not a generationally exclusive thing. when you get to a certain level of goodness, it will appeal to everyone. i think there will necessarily be people who wanted exactly what garrison was delivering and don't want anything else. i have... >> brown: you may lose some people.

>> to let them go because they will be just as dissatisfied with my best imitation of garrison keillor's delivery of the show as they will be with whatever i would like to do with it. but, i also think they will be in the minority. >> and now another exciting episode of detective miller, phone cop. >> brown: the new news from lake wobegon? it's gone. as are some of the show's regular storylines. but actor tim russell has stayed on and now works with new writers. i asked what we might expect, and he went right into character. >> well, i must tell you chris, i mean, jeffrey, i'm sorry, i'm not good with names, okay? there might be a little political stuff, i don't know. you could ask bernie sanders but one tenth of what we do, will maybe be comedic. >> what this public radio station needs is a revolution. >> brown: bernie sanders and donald trump did make it into

one skit... >> it's true, it's true. only i can make public radio great again. >> brown: ...but the humor is still more "saturday evening minnesota" than "saturday night live." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the nasty political season did come up in a song about autumn that thile wrote. instead of a keillor-like opening monologue, he plans to begin each show with an original tune. he also plans to shake up the musical offerings a bit, which is just fine by longtime bandleader rich dworsky, who started at prairie home 23 years ago and will stay on. >> chris is 35 years old, so he knows a different set of music. he knows different cultural references. everything is going to be maybe a little bit younger and hipper and edgier. you know, like the kids are today. (laughing) >> brown: like those kids-- >> and now i'm the old guy!

♪ ♪ >> brown: for week one, the musical muscle came from a bona fide rock star, jack white. ♪ ♪ and from the pop/soul sound of a rising group "lake street dive." rachael price and mike olson think the new "prairie home" can connect with young people eager for a music experience that goes beyond pandora or spotify. >> the more formats change, the more relevant the older formats become because they have so much value. >> the desire to have a vinyl record and the desire to listen to a variety show, these kinds of things go beyond nostalgia. that's a very visceral experience. there's something directly transferable to a show like this. >> brown: to the extent that it can even be a cool thing? >> well, yeah. it's cool that people used to sit down in their homes and

listen to the radio together. that's a cool thing. there's no reason why we should stop doing that even though we have all these other ways to entertain ourselves. ♪ ♪ >> brown: this, chris thile feels in his bones. >> radio is a podcast that's happening right now, live radio. our show is a live show, so... >> brown: you like that aspect, clearly. >> i love that. there is nothing between you and what's happening. and i love the communal aspect of that. the idea that we could be connected in real time with that many people. the radio hasn't lost any of its relevance in our lives. it's still a unique piece of technology. >> brown: "lake wobegon" may be gone, that is. but a great show, live on the radio -- well, maybe that lives on. >> it has been a pleasure to spend this saturday evening with you, and i look forward to many,

many more. (applause) >> brown: from st. paul, minnesota, i'm jeffrey brown for the pbs newshour. >> woodruff: online you can watch chris thile perform his first original song-of-the-week for the new show, about this autumn season of leaves falling and campaign rhetoric flying. that's at pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: later tonight on pbs, an inside look into the making of the broadway hit "hamilton." the 90- minute program, "hamilton's america" offers a view of lin-manuel miranda's creative process during the three years leading up to the opening of the musical, including time he spent in aaron burr's bedroom. >> i write everywhere.

i write on trains. i write wherever i can, and sometimes, a couple of days, i've written in aaron burr's bedroom. it's pretty amazing to be in the space he was in the later parts of his life. talk about artist in residence, literally. this is my hamilton writing desk. i sit here, on the floor, not on the colonial furniture. there is a song in the show called "my shot." it's hamilton's big "i want" song. the second in the show. we see him make his great friends, john lawrence, hurricanherculesmull gun and jo. these guys are oil and water but they're revolutionaries, soldiers and lawyers together. they're elected officials together and, at some point, one shoots the other. >> woodruff: "hamilton's america" airs tonight on most

pbs stations. the debates are over and its the final sprint to election day. hillary clinton is leading in many battleground state polls. but donald trump says he may not accept the results if he loses. the panel on washington week sorts it all out. later tonight on your pbs station. and on pbs newshour saturday, a glimpse of the automation that will likely take jobs from people in the coming decades. and we'll be back, right here, on monday when we talk with a syrian activist whose views have drastically changed after five years of civil war. that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. have a great weekend. thank you and good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> supporting social entrepreneurs and their solutions to the world's most pressing problems-- skollfoundation.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. where there's smoke. deal buzz lights up tech, tobacco and media. tonight, the reshaping of american business. tale of two blue chips. why investors cheered mcdonald's quarter, but jeered general electrics. and business sense. meet the woman who pioneered the home fragrances industry, and ended up making millions. those stories and more tonight on "nightly business report" for friday, october 21st. good evening, everyone. and welcome. numerous reports tonight of big corporate mergers, very big. the combined price tag of all would be in the nine figures. so let's begin tonight with a potential get-together of two very familiar names.