>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with a fight to retake mosul and the counterattack against kirkuk and talk to holly williams of cbs news who is on the scene. >> i've spent most of this week on the front line and i can tell you it's going pretty slowly. both kurdish forces and iraqi forces are taking back villages and towns on the outskirts of mosul, but it is very slow going. i mean, they're up against roadside bombs, they're up against suicide car bombers, bombs -- cars and trucks laden with explosives and driven at high speeds toward the front line. >> rose: while the fighting goes on in aleppo, syria, there are increasing calls for the world to do something. prince zeid ra'ad al hussein is the u.n. high commissioner of

human rights and he suggested today there are war crimes going on. we'll talk to him about that. >> how can we take pride of the achievements of humanity in the 21st century when our newspapers, the internet, on your show you all are exposed to the suffering at an extreme scale, and how could we not be moved? and as you rightly suggested, it's not just limited to one particular location but, because we see other crimes being committed in many parts of the world, these are allegations in most part that have to be proven in court. but what does it say about us? >> rose: a new film called "moonlight" is getting rave reviews at film festivals, directed by barry jenkins, stars trevante rhodes, andreé holland

and naomie harris. >> there is a performance of masculinity that the world is projected at you always. this is how a man walks, talks speaks to another man, speaks to another becomes hard to self-identify, the more you're receiving sort of like both positive and negative reinforcement of what masculinity should look like. >> rose: we conclude this evening with lauryn hill performing for the first time "rebel, i find it hard to say," right here in our studios. ♪ stand up and live >> rose: the bat toll retake mosul. the human rights commerges on the crisis in aleppo, the "moonlight" film and lauryn hill performance, when we continue.

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin overseas where iraqi and kurdish troops are pushing towards i.s.i.s. positions in and around the city of mosul. one american serviceman had been killed by a roadside bomb and i.s.i.s. fighters are resorting to suicide attacks in an effort to slow the advance. today as many as 50 i.s.i.s. fighters attack the city of kirkuk as a diversion. holly williams and her crew raced to the scene. >> i.s.i.s. infiltrated kirkuk overnight and laid siege to neighborhoods across the city.

( gunfire ) we were this kurdish s.w.a.t. team today as they fought a gun battle with i.s.i.s. the surprise attack started with multiple suicide bombings before the extremists hold up inside buildings, including this house under construction. >> we know there are between six to eight i.s.i.s. in that building. >> inside that building over there? >> yes. on the streets below, the bodies of dead i.s.i.s. extremists as well as local residents who couldn't move for fear of being shot. the s.w.a.t. team began firing tear gas canister, throwing up a smoke screen before sending a team into the building. so they have been shooting at the building and also firing tear gas canisters, and now the assault team is about to go in.

( rapid gunfire ) but as they approached, they came under fire and one of them was hit. the one of the s.w.a.t. team was injured, they had to pull back, and now they're trying to pin the i.s.i.s. gunmen down inside the building. commander muhamad is from kirkuk and told us he'll fight i.s.i.s. until every last one of the extremists is dead. what's in their heads? >> war and revenge. revenge, he said, for the mosul offensive. >> rose: joining me from northern iraq is holly williams of cbs news. thank you, holly. what's happening in the battle against mosul as kurdish peshmerga troops march toward there and the prime minister of iraq says they're going faster than he expected. >> prime minister haider al- abadi said the offensive is progressing faster than

expected. i don't know how fast he expected it to go, but i've spent most of this week on the front line and i can tell you it's going pretty slowly. both kurdish forces and iraqi forces are taking back villages and towns on the outskirts of mosul, but it is very slow going. they're up against roadside bombs. they're up against suicide car bombers, bombs, cars and trucks laden with explosives and driven at high speeds toward the front line. some of the i.s.i.s. fighters in these villages are willing to fight to the death. this, after all, is a death cult that many people join because, you know, they want to become a martyr. and even if i.s.i.s. runs away from some of those vegs, when the kurdish and iraqi forces get there, they find the buildings, the houses in those villages rigged with homemade bombs, with explosives, and they have to clear those before they can move on. so they have taken back a number

of villages and towns, but it is pretty slow going. >> rose: i mentioned peshmerga. who else is involved in this fight? >> well, it's the kurdish and iraqi forces, so far. when things begin to heat up and move towards mosul city itself, i think we'll see the participation of more local sunni militias. then you have iraq's shiite militias. now, they have been very effective in defeating i.s.i.s. in other parts of country, but they're also accused of carrying out atrocities of exacting, you know, retribution on local sunni muslim populations. now, my understanding at this point is that they are not going to go into mosul city. they are going to fight on the southwest edge of the city. >> rose: what's happening to the people inside mosul? >> well, we know very little. there are around, you know, a million residents inside mosul.

i.s.i.s. tried to stop them communicating two the outside world. it's prevented them from leaving. mobile phones are banned. some people are getting out. they often have very little intelligence. they can say what's happening in their neighborhood. they can talk about friends and neighborhoods who may have been imprisoned or tortured or executed, but they don't necessarily have intelligence about the big picture. interestingly, earlier this week, i.s.i.s. put out a propaganda video claiming to show life kind of going on as normal inside mosul with street scenes, people on the street, market stalls, that kind of thing, but they also put out a couple of execution videos for mosul, barbaric execution videos we've seen.from i.s.i.s. we're reminded that's part of normal life under i.s.i.s. in mosul. >> rose: there are also reports i.s.i.s. is using human shields. >> the united nations has said

it has information that several hundred families have been taken by i.s.i.s. and are specifically being used as human shields. we can't confirm that but we can say the million or so civilians inside mosul are all potentially human shields because i.s.i.s. is preventing them from leaving. remember, the fighting we've seen so far has been on the outskirts of mosul and most of those towns and villages are uninhabited. the residents left two years ago when i.s.i.s. blitzed across northern iraq, yet it's still slow going. imagine how much more difficult it's going to be when the kurdish and iraqi forces get into mosul city itself, which is a densely-packed urban area and they're fighting street to street and u.s. coalition airstrikes will be much more difficult because of the risk of mass civilian casualties. >> rose: understanding that, how well as american and coalition air power been used so far in the advance as well as

artillery? >> i think it's been instrumental. you know, we've seen air strikes that have taken out i.s.i.s. vehicles, that have taken out buildings, that are being used by i.s.i.s. there is no doubt it has enormous impact on the fight against i.s.i.s. earlier this week, we're in a village -- and this is very typical -- i.s.i.s. had built a network of tunnels under that village where they were hiding out. the u.s. coalition had intelligence that was the case, and they managed to hit those tunnels with four different airstrikes. so their normsly useful. interestingly today, the peshmerga, the kurdish forces put out a statement saying the u.s. coalition airstrikes hadn't been as useful as they hoped in the fight against i.s.i.s. to the north of mosul. >> rose: how many directions are they advancing on mosul? certainly from the north, they

said. i assume from the east. >> yeah, most of the fighting is there the north, east and south. so we have iraqi forces closing in from the south. on the east, it's a mixture of iraqi and kurdish forces and, from the north, mainly kurdish forces. >> rose: is there anyonict taking place between the forces opposing i.s.i.s. in mosul in terms of they come from different strategic interests and different cultural and historical backgrounds? >> well, as you know, there are very, very deep divisions along ethnic and religious lines in iraq. so far during this offensive, i'm not aware of any infighting. but there has in recent months been fighting between the shiite militias and kurdish forces, both ostensibly i.s.i.s. but joes ling for positions inside iraq. the big fear is during the offensive inside mosul and

perhaps after i.s.i.s. has been defeated, those different groups come into conflict with each other. >> rose: mosul is primarily a sunni city or not? >> that is correct. it's predominantly a sunni muslim arab city. >> rose: how long do they think the battle will last? >> i don't know the answer to that and i don't think anybody knows the answer to that. there are a whole loft variables there. first of all, what is i.s.i.s. going to do? we think they have fewer than 5,000 fighters in the city. are they going to and stay and fight to the death or run away? that's clearly a big factor. secondly, think about the iraqi forces because they're going to be the driving force, as far as we understand it, inside mosul city. now, iraqi soldiers ran away two years ago when i.s.i.s. blitzed its way across northern iraq. since then the u.s. military says they have been retrained, it's an entirely new army and they're ready to take on i.s.i.s.

let's see if that's true in this battle for mosul. the other important factor is the people of mosul themselves, what are they going to do? when i.s.i.s. first took mosul, many residents were on the streets cheering them on because it is a redocumently sunni sums city and most of the residents were fed up with the iraqi government in baghdad dom united by shiite muslims. have they changed their minds? do they no longer see i.s.i.s. as revolutionaries, as heros, and will they rise up against i.s.i.s. during this offensive? >> rose: there has been one american casualty. what is the american presence on the ground and what is the risk to them? >> well, that's a very interesting question. when you talk to officers in the u.s. military, they insist that their role during this offensive is to advise and assist the iraqis and that the iraqis directing this offensive and that the americans and the u.s. coalition is simply there to help. certainly, that's what they're

doing with airstrikes, that's what they're doing with artillery based south of molds that's being use -- mosul being used to hit i.s.i.s. however, we have seen american troops close to the front line, for instance north of mosul. they don't want to be captured on camera or talk to us but they are there. we actually saw other coalition troops from a european country firing on i.s.i.s. from that front line. >> rose: so they are on the front line and exposed. >> you know, the u.s. military stresses that they are not in combat roles, but this is still a combat environment and it's dangerous. >> rose: they also acknowledge they will be defensive and engage in combat if they have to. >> i'm sure that's the kay. >> rose: finally, there is the question of where is al-baghdadi? is there any sense of who is running the i.s.i.s. troops inside of mosul? >> you know, that's so mysterious, and al-baghdadi's whereabouts are also mysterious.

you know, the u.s. military told us that they have intelligence that some i.s.i.s. leaders and their families are fleeing mosul already ahead of this offensive and heading west toward syria, toward some of the strong holds that i.s.i.s. has there. raqqa, de facto capital in syria whether that includes al-baghdadi and his family, we just don't know. >> rose: but we can tell whether they have closed the route from mosul which has been a primary route from mosul to raqqa. that is still open for them to flee? >> they still have territory that connects those two cities. that's correct. >> rose: holly williams, cbs news. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: zeid ra'ad al hussein is here, u.n. high commissioner for human rights. he addressed the human rights council in a special session friday about the ongoing crisis

in aleppo calling the city a slaughter house. with coalition forces advancing in mosul against i.s.i.s., also warned of the possibility of human shields. i am pleased to have him back on the program. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> rose: you said that the bombardment of aleppo constitutes crimes of an historic proportion. tell me what's happening and why it brings such strong language. >> well, even on the scale of the atrocities we have witnessed in syria -- not just in syria, also in iraq, it's almost one battle space, after all. the fact that you have 275,000 or so people hemmed in, having endured the war for a number of years now and then being subjected to this bombing which

seems to be utterly indiscriminate, bakeries, hospitals, schools, almost nowhere is safe in eastern aleppo. now, of course, being put in a situation where they have to make choices. but the main point, charlie, is that they have to make the choice. if they want to leave, we should be able to bring them out. if they want to stay, we should be able to at least afford them some fort -- some form of protection. if they want to leave and return, that should be possible as well. >> rose: we've seen the hoer pacific pictures of children stunned by the toll of war. >> absolutely disgraceful. how can we take pride of the achievements of humanity in the 21st century when in the newspapers, the internet, on your show, we all are exposed to these -- the suffering at an

extreme scale. and how could we not be moved? and as you rightly suggested, it's not just limited to one particular location, but because we see other crimes being committed in many parts of the world, these allegations, in most part that have to be proven in court, but what does it say about us? >> rose: why are we impotent? well, i think, at the moment, we seem to have completely lost our way. my interpretation is that the narrowest agendas are eclipsingg the interests of the broader whole. there is a sort of greed in us, the pursuit of the -- i don't know if you can describe it as strategic, but it seems to be razor thin, and it comes at the

expense of communities, of cultures of people around the world and it's difficult to explain. >> rose: let's set the stage. aleppo, where is it in syria? >> it's in the north sort of western quadrant and not far from the turkish border. >> rose: second largest city damascus. >> that's right. >> rose: there is the east and the west. >> that's right. >> rose: the west is occupied by the regime. >> that's right. >> rose: the east is -- go ahead. >> yes, that's right. >> rose: and the east is occupied primarily by forces opposed to the regime. >> that's right. >> rose: who are they? well, it's a collection of armed groups and, of course, you've heard the russians make the argument that parts of this opposition, al-nusra, the ideological twin of i.s.i.l and they enjoy the support of the western and regional powers.

>> rose: is that true? to the certain extent, yes. to a certain extent, that is the case. but what we have seen in eastern aleppo -- and we have also condemned the use of mortars, these mortars that have incendiary sort of heads to them. the use of these by the armed groups. but what we've seen recently is that the vast majority of casualties are as a result of the aerial bombing by the syrian air force together with its allies, of course. >> rose: the russian air force and syrian air force are doing the bombing. >> that's right. >> rose: would sanctions be appropriate now? would they have an impact now? or would they cause either forces to do something different or to restrain themselves or to come to some kind of humanitarian effort? >> well, i think the point that i was trying to make earlier

today before the human rights council is that, whatever the position of either side or the three sides or the five sides in this chess game, the level and degree of human suffering insuring now needs to be -- surely now needs to be at the forefront of everyone's mind. whatever advantage can be gained by taking or defending aleppo, this must be outweighed now by the pounding of flesh and blood that has occurred over the last few days that needs to now stop. we have a pause. we have to hope that this pause is now lengthened and that this opens the way to some now very concerted effort to bring this war eventually to an end. surely, you cannot hope to have a sort of stable that part of the mediterranean, at least, but

beyond that, if this continues in the same way and then we have iraq next door, of course. >> rose: this would not be happening without the russian support of assad. >> i think the russians stated repeatedly that they're taking every measure to avoid civilian casualties and civilian casualties as a result of aerial operations, military operations. in every case, whether the bombings we see in yemen or the bombing we've seen in afghanistan when the u.s. forces attacked the m.s.f. hospital or in syria or in every case, we ask for a proper investigation where we believe the targeting to be indiscriminate and possibly a war crime, and if it was intentional then maybe a crime against humanity, then surely there must be a proper investigation and follow through with that. and this is what we need to do. >> rose: you calling it war crimes has created a response in terms of people take note, it's been in newspapers and online

all day today. >> yes. >> rose: what you have said. what was the reaction at the united nations? >> well, i think there is a sort of very lively debate that took place in geneva today on this issue, and i haven't seen the detailed responses, but i can imagine that the reactions would be quite strong. i have no reservations about making those comments because, as you yourself said, you know, just the simple exposure to what we've seen in photographic imagery, the sources that have been relaying this information to us make it very clear that the bombing seems to be indiscriminate in many aspects and, therefore, one has to draw the conclusion and subject to a confirmation by a court at a later stage that what we are

seeing before us is indeed the commissioner of -- missio commif massive war crimes. >> rose: do the syrian people in the east, men, women and children, want to evacuate? >> at the moment, it doesn't look like it. i think they are fearful of what may happen to them once they leave their homes. horrific as it may be to remain in their homes, they seem to want to stay unless, you know, further guarantees potentially are given to them. but for the time being, it doesn't look like they want to go. >> rose: they fear the unknown? >> they fear the unknown, yes. they fear the unknown. >> rose: but we know after the balkans, finally, there were people convicted of war crimes and went to jail. >> absolutely. >> rose: that's what you're suggesting, people who perpetuate this should be tried and, if convicted, put in jail? >> that's correct. i think that's where we have to make a very decisive departure from a humanity that is

unshackled that feels that, in wartime, anything is possible. i think cicero once said that when a war starts, the law falls silent. where the law shall not fall silent, there have to be limits to what it is competence can do and need to observe and i think, clearly, there has to be no impunity for the commission of these sorts of crimes. >> rose: there are others who argue that won't stop it, that the only thing that will stop it will be a show of force against assad and the russians, that, obviously, humanitarian appeals are not working. do you think that is not a wise solution? >> well, you touch on a very interesting point because we used to believe that if enough people were horrifieder, as we saw in sarajevo in early 1994 the marketplace was bombed there, i think 68 people were killed, it was very graphic, and

the n.a.t.o. mobilized -- >> rose: and discovered essentially the equivalent of genocide. >> this is the case, yes. and the feeling has been that if you show people what's happening around the world that they begin to mobilize and react, and what we're worried about now is there is a sort of -- people feel tranquilized, almost. they're numb. they don't know what to make of it all, and, so, the resultant pressure you would want to see on governments, on the u.n. security council doesn't seem to be there and knot withwith standing the attempts by people like yourself or us and the sort of human rights field and the u.n., and, so, there is an intense frustration. i mean, you hope that people realize that, when you see enough killing and wanton destruction, that we cannot possibly advance as humanity if we prolong this experience.

>> rose: it reminds me of the notion that unless you do something, history will judge you very badly. >> i think so. i think so. i mean, the pursuit of a narrow tactical gain, the pursuit of even a strategic gain at the expense of a very large number of innocent lives will not shield you from future indictment, from -- whether it be by historians or prosecutors, your reputation will be so entirely sullied, and deservedly so. so the long -- i mean, for one, you shouldn't be doing it anyway. there are rules, the basic rules of proportionality, distinction and precaution. proportionality, the attack has to be proportionate to the threat. distinction, you must distinguish between civilians and armed competence.

you take every precaution to see that civilian casualties do not incur. >> rose: does this need leadership from a nation state or can the united nations be the rallying point for doing something? >> well, i think it's the combination of different factors. it kneads leadership at the international level, and the united nations has been trying to create the right atmosphere to try and create the right space for these efforts to bear fruit, and i think stefan has been heroic in what he has been trying to achieve. we from our side will continue to report and speak out, no matter what the identity of the attacker, whoever is attacking, if there are victims that have suffered excruciatingly, or not, even if they're not suffering injuries that are that bad, we will still say something on their behalf. >> rose: what do you worry

about in mosul. >> in mosul, at the moment -- >> rose: in the battle for mosul. >> we have been very clear, and i'm sure you discussed this earlier today, that the use of hume upshields by i.s.i.l is deeply, deeply worrisome. we've heard they have kept certain communities close to their places of concentration. we've heard they have been moving populations from villages toward mosul. if there is any resistance, there have been allegations of on the spot executions which we are looking at, and the final analysis, of course, what we're worried about is that, in those parts of the outer sort of parts of mosul and then as you move in, that the iraqi security forces, the military and security won't be alone, that you will have these other armed groups and, as we saw in fallujah only a few weeks ago, they exacted their retribution

on those who had surrendered. and this places the people of fallujah in a very difficult situation. of course, you would assume they would want to flee from i.s.i.l, but if they flee from i.s.i.l into the path of an oncoming armed group representing one of the shia militia and are exposed to atrocities from that side as well, then they're placed before an impossible situation. what we've hoped and called for the iraqi governmentyto observe is that any vetting of any fighters over 15 years old needs to be done by authorized military personnel, not by these other armed groups. >> rose: dispensing what they call instant adjudication. >> that's right. and also that this is an important point, that when they see a young fighter who they believe is from i.s.i.l, to remember that that person is a child first and then possibly connected to i.s.i.l second, and

not to look at it the other way around. >> rose: you have a tough job. i do. >> rose: but thank you for coming. >> thank you so much. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: "moonlight" is the new film from writer/director barry jenkins. it is an adaptation of terrell's play focusing on three pivotal periods of a young man as he comes to terms with his sexuality and struggles to find his identity. it is written the film has the best take on black masculinity ever. here's a look. >> what are you looking at me like that for? come on, man, you just drove down here?

>> yeah. where are you? come on, i'm trying not to remember. >> it's so important you have to decide for yourself who you're going to be. can't let nobody make that decision for you. >> you want to tell me why the other boys kick hiss as all the time? >> i'm good. seen good. you ain't it. >> remember the last time i saw you. >> you're my only.

i'm the only. no, no, no -- >> no, no, you gonna listen. to who, ma? to you? >> i ain't seen you in, like, a decade. it's not what i expected. >> what did you expect? >> rose: joining me is writer and director of the film barry jenkins and three cars, trevante rhodes, naomie harris and andrée holland. pleased to have each of them at the table for the first time. welcome. >> thanks. >> rose: trevante, they're raving about you. what is it you hope to accomplish by this film? >> people has said "moonlight" is a story that doesn't get told often and character we don't see often, they're, like, voiceless, so my greatest hope for the film and it's what i've experienced in toronto and london, these

places far removed from the setting of the film. >> rose: miami. and inner city miami, just these four square blorks that people can see themselves in these characters who they assume are nothing like them. and it's been my experience that people are finding a way to genuinely empathize with the story we're telling and the characters that we're showing in this film. >> rose: you know miami. born and raised, yeah. >> rose: and how did that shape this story? >> hugely, you know. there is this almost anesthesia i think that happens when you're working in a place you know. i've seen in the film where the character says, you know, sometimes that breeze comes through the hood, you know, and the liberty city where i grew up is three miles from the ocean. sometimes you can smell it. i think knowing those kinds of things, you go into a location with more confidence, the same as the emotional currency you felt growing up there. >> rose: who is shirone. a beautifully flawed

individual, coming to terms with who he is, finding out what love is, finding the relationship with his mother and finding out about life in general. >> rose: tell me about his mother. >> paula who is a struggling single parent dealing with a severe crack cocaine addiction as well. >> rose: what's interesting is you see him at different parts in his life. how hard is that to pull off? >> i thought that would be impossible. >> rose: mother stays the same. >> i wanted to have a foundation and bedrock. i think the time between the chapters is changing the character. the men are shaped by the environment. the hope was if we found actors with the same feeling in their eyes that you could see the soul of the character across all three parts and so far i think that's what people are experiencing. >> rose: andreé, what was the

challenge for you. >> i play kevin a childhood friend of shirone and becomes the object of his affection. i came in at the end of the film, out of nowhere, we don't understand why he comes back and they're on screen for a very long time working through a problem and we don't know quite what the motivation of the character is. that was a big challenge identifying the motivation. >> rose: ta-nehisi coates said barry has this ability to capture black folks in their ordinariness without making statements or declarations. so often art bams about blackness or lgbt issues engages in a debate about whether we're human or not. barry spheps past it and says it's not an argument worth having. he tells the viewer you have to accept this, you have to accept

they're human. >> i wholeheartedly agree with that. not just because it's ta ta-nehi coates. the idea the characters are inherently human is not a foreign concept to us. we were just trying to accurately portray what we experienced growing up. i think you end up with something that's specific and universal because you're not thinking about this or that issue. >> rose: we talk about masculinity and identity. are they one in the same? >> i think for this character they are. they are one in the same. i think what happens is there is this performance of masculinity that the world is projecting at you always. this is how a man walks, talks, speaks to another man, this is how he speaks to a woman, and i think when you're getting that sort of stimulus so much from the outside world, you start to lose your grip on what your idea of masculinity is, which i think if you're a man growing up in

the world we grew up in, it's very key to your identity, and it becomes harder self-identify the more you're receiving this positive and negative reinforcement of what masculinity should look like. >> rose: when you were thinking about playing at the age you play him and the connection to andreé, did you look at the earlier performances? >> no. actually barry didn't allow it at all. we were both trying to find some semblance of something. >> rose: a thread. something, but barry, he was really adamant about it as well, but i guess that was kind of to depict how we change so drastically throughout our lives at certain point. so it's engenius that you knew mr. barry. >> i feel like the world is shaping the character so much that when you meet him in each chapter, he's become a different person, and i wanted to keep the soul of the character so if you look in his eyes, you still see the little boy, but he's a different person. he and andreé works where that

old person slowly comes back to the surface. >> rose: you come to the realization shirone is gay. how does that affect the relationship paula has with him? >> i think she really can't accept it, she finds it disgusting, unpalatablenned it's part of her further rejection of her son as well. i think she genuinely fears for his safety and what that means growing up in the kind of community they're growing up in. it's not something easily accepted by anyone in that community. >> rose: is homosexuality different in terms of perception, in terms of cultural relationships in the black community? >> i wouldn't say so. i think homophobia is -- we were talking about masculinity earlier -- is something that maybe is inherently in conflict with masculinity. i don't know if it's in conflict with blackness. there is an anecdote shooting the film where the kids are playing football in the story and they're playing throwup

tackle. in brazil you get newspaper, balls it up and whoever catches it, you tackle that kid. it's about power. we're filming and a white guy from the suburbs says what are they playing? tackle. he said, we call that smear the queer where i grow up. >> rose: he was from brazil? no, ohio. a white, middle class community in ohio yet the same game we're playing, one community labels it overtly in sexual terms, the other community is just about power. yet the community i played it in labeled it overtly homophobic and the other one doesn't have those associations. so it's a bit about perception. i think it's why the theme of masculinity was so important to the film. i think it's why people -- i have been to tel teruride and ln

and people see themselves in the film wherever you go. >> rose: the search for identity. >> and as men. i think the way other men around us when we're boys, teenagers and adults, this trying to reinforce what a man looks and sounds like and i think men all over the world can identify what that pressure looks like. >> rose: how did shirone's first sexual experience affect him? >> i think it confused him profoundly. i think he -- i mean, obviously, he you who he was, but he just didn't know that, for one, this person he felt this connection with was the same way and he didn't understand how -- he he didn't understand how to feel, i guess. you know, i think. >> rose: how much -- because you were so close and you knew the author and you knew the neighborhood, did you have to direct more because you had such a deeply-felt sense of this

story? >> you know, it's funny. no one asked that question but i did, and i thought i would have to direct less. that's what i assumed. but then we got there and particularly then naomie showed up because we had an issue with her visa, we ended up doing her work in three consecutive days, and directing someone who looks like your mom and as you understand like your mom and is being your mom is intense. i had to compartmentalize my personal leaf, then also it was impossible to keep it separate from the work, but i think it made the work better because we did things i hadn't considered and i think were very inspired and came from the character. >> rose: you obviously wanted her badly. >> yes. >> rose: why was that? well, because she's the only character that's in all three films. she tees bedrock of the piece and i thought, also, too, it would take a lot of skill to do the things she was doing that were very dark and in some cases ugly and still preserve the humanity of the character and i felt someone as gifted and

amazing as naomie harris could pull it off. >> rose: and how does kevin change? >> pretty drastically. he's the guy who, as barry said, acts out the performance of masculinity in the second story, but in the third story he let go to have the mask and has become a more vulnerable, authentic person. >> liberated. and is reaching out to this guy and drawing him out of himself nu what's the most challenging thing for you, barry? >> it was getting past the initial hurdle. i thought i would hide behind the playwright but i thought it's his biography, not mine, and i will keep myself out of it. >> rose: what are the autobiographical elements for you. >> everything involving the mother. >> rose: that was you in your relationship with your mother. >> yes. when the piece first came to me,

that's the first thing i saw in it. some of the things i went through with my mom and i hadn't talked about them. i think to the point i was going to accept the story and tell it fully was the biggest hurdle. >> rose: are you surprised by the reaction and did you measure the reaction? >> i wrote a journal about a week before the movie premiered to tell myself what i thought of the film, what i was proud of, and in the end, no matter what anybody thought, i was proud of the work we all did. >> rose: are you finding people want to communicate with you because of this film? >> big final. >> rose: why are you laughing? people are just deeply moved to see themselves represented in letters because they don't see themselves very often. these guys do a great job. they're seeing it in a true way. they say how did you know this? i said i didn't, but glad you saw it? this scene, a drug dealer

returning 9-year-old shirone back to his mother. here it is. (knocking) >> what happened? why didn't you come home like you're supposed to, huh? and who is you? >> nobody. i found him yesterday. found him in a hole on 15th. yeah, that one. some boys chased him in the cut. he's scared more than anything. wouldn't tell me where he lived till this morning. >> well, thanks for seeing to him. he usually can take care of hisself. he's good that way. but -- >> little man.

>> rose: who did the adaptation? >> i did. >> rose: you wrote the script as well? >> yeah, and i wrote it really, really quickly because it just came pouring out of me. it was like ten days, the first draft. >> rose: each of you, tell me about your reaction to having experienced this film and th message of it and the sense that you're part of something as a matter of fact resonates. >> it's been an extraordinary journey. it's so incredible to see people who you wouldn't naturally think are represented in the story be so deeply moved about it. it has the ability to strip back all the labels we attach to ourselves, that society attaches to us and connect profoundly with people's hearts and say this is a story about humanity, and humanity's search for connection, love and identity, and that's a universal search. >> rose: paula has a strength as well as vulnerability? >> yeah, absolutely. she's had to develop this incredibly tough exterior, but underneath that, she's

fundamentally a woman in pain. >> rose: congratulations to all of you. >> thank you. >> rose: there is much talk about future awards, and i wish you well. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: we leave you tonight with a special and exclusive performance by ms. lauryn hill, a grammy award-winning artist just released an updated version of her 2002 hit "rebel... i find it hard to say" song. same version, more context even more relevant now. available now. her world tour kicked off this week in los angeles. from our studios in new york city, ms. lauryn hill performing "rebel... i find it hard to say." t ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i find it hard to say, that everything is alright ♪ don't look at me that way, like everything is alright ♪ cuz my own eyes can see, through all your false pretenses ♪ but what you fail to see, is all the consequences

♪ you think our lives are cheap, and easy to be wasted ♪ as history repeats, so foul you can taste it ♪ and while the people sleep, too comfortable to face it ♪ his life so incomplete, and nothing can replace it ♪ replace it. ♪ and what i gotta say ♪ oh, is rebel ♪ oh we can't go down this way

♪ rebel ♪ and what i gotta say, is rebel, it can't go down this way ♪ rebel ♪ and while the people sleep, too comfortable to face it ♪ your lives are so incomplete ♪ and nothing can replace it

♪ fret not thyself i say, against these laws of man ♪ cuz like the bible says, his blood is on their hands ♪ and what i gotta say, and what i gotta say, is rebel ♪ it can't go down this way ♪ rebel ♪ what i gotta say is rebel. ♪ it can't go down ♪ rebel ♪ oh, all i gotta say, oh, is rebel ♪ ♪ oh no, it can't go down, can't go down ♪

♪ rebel ♪ uh-huh, you're satisfied, oh, you're satisfied, uh uh-huh, you're satisfied, uh-huh, you're satisfied ♪ ♪ then rebel ♪ rebel ♪ rebel ♪ rebel ♪ rebel ♪ rebel ♪ rebel ♪ you got to rebel ♪ oh, you've got to rebel ♪ you've got to rebel ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live

♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live. ♪ stand up and live. ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and -- ♪ stand up and live ♪ oh, you got to rebel ♪ you got to rebel ♪ you got to rebel ♪ oh, you got to rebel ♪ you got to rebel ♪ said you got to rebel ♪ said, you got to rebel ♪ you got to rebel ♪ stand up and live ♪ no, can't go down ♪ no, can't go down ♪ no, i can't go -- ♪ no, i can't go down

♪ no, i can't go -- ♪ no, i can't go ♪ no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no ♪ ♪ said i can't go down ♪ no i can't go down ♪ oh, oh, oh, oh ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ can't go down ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ stand up and live ♪ >> rose: for more about this

program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

♪> you're watching pbs. this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. where there's smoke. deal buzz lights up tech, tobacco and media. tonight, the reshaping of american business. tale of two blue chips. why investors cheered mcdonald's quarter, but jeered general electrics. and business sense. meet the woman who pioneered the home fragrances industry, and ended up making millions. those stories and more tonight on "nightly business report" for friday, october 21st. good evening, everyone. and welcome. numerous reports tonight of big corporate mergers, very big. the combined price tag of all would be in the nine figures. so let's begin tonight with a potential get-together of two very familiar names.