>> welcome to the program. we begin this evening with the fbi director's decision to say to congress that he was looking at some new emails that may affect the hillry clinton email controversy. we're joined by michael isikoff, michael schmidt and jonathan karl. >> to have this kind of cloud hanging over there, over the entire campaign only to get answered a couple of weeks after the election say oh guess what it was nothing seems highly problematic will. is a lot of pressure on comey, whether or not it's doable, i question, is another question. but there is an obligation to try to at least answer is this a big deal or is it not a big deal. >> rose: we continue with a look at the chinese economy and sheel shen the found ef-- founder of sequoia capital china. >> there is something called a

new economy, and something called an old economy, old economy refers to tra diggal-- clearly a the love challenges and the new economy, are talking about sectors like information technology, health cares, and consumer secretariers which link to the consumption-- those are great. >> rose: and we close to taylor goldsmith, lead singer of dawes. >> i like the idea of looking at the relationship between a band or an artist and an audience as a dance. and we kind of have to get to this place where we are in line with each other. and when we, when you guys want to get big or we want to get big, we all want to go there together. >> rose: the email investigation, china and taylor goldsmith when we continue. >> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. investigation into hillary clinton's private server. emails were discovered through a separate fbi investigation into former congressman anthony weiner in a letter to his fbi staff friday afternoon, comey explained his decision saying quote it would be misleading to the american people were we not to supplement the record. major political fallout unfolded over the weekend as hillary clinton called comey's move unprecedented and deeply troubling. her campaign called on the fbi director to release all details of their investigation. at a campaign rally friday,

trump described the email scandal as bigger than watergate. authorities attained a warrant on sunday to search the emails of huma abedin, long time clinton aide and estranged wife of anthony weiner. several justice department officials criticized comey including eric holder the news broke with only a weak now remaining until the election. joining me from washington michael isikoff, the cheefer investigative correspondent for yahoo news, from washington michael schmidt of the "new york times," in the studio here with me, jonathan karl, chief white house correspondent for abc news. michael schmidt, where is this now? and what is likely to happen next? >> the-- you know, this review is getting off the ground. and the fbi is basically taking the messages, the emails and putting them into a program that will allow them to go through them and see, are there duplicates here. are these emails that we've seen before s there classified information here. it's not a man power issue, it

is an issue of getting the messages in a computer that allows the agents to actually take a look at them and see what's really there and get under the hood. >> so once they get under the hood, how long should it take them? >> well, that's the question. over the weekend the fbi folks i was talking to said you know, at the least this is going to take a few weeks. last night they were saying maybe we can get this done by election day. the pressure on them is immense. and i think that justice department is pushing them as well. and they are going to try and move heaven and earth to get this done in the next week. >> rose: is it fair to say, and this is for all of you, that everybody want this done before the election. everybody wants that, am i right or wrong? >> i'm not so sure of that. i mean unless they can definitively say that every single one of these emails has already been accounted for and they are exact duplicates of what they have already seen, i'm not sure they're going to say anything. and even-- and i'm not even sure

they would say that because at this point, anything they say about the substance of this matter is-- could be con streud as commenting on and affecting the election. and i think that they've-- they have been taken such withering criticism over that at this point that the probably the best thing they can do is just shut up until after the election. >> but there's so much ambiguity here. you have the whole election, you know, is in part pred kateed on what the answer to this question is. this may be absolutely nothing. these may be entirely duplicates of what they already have. >> rose: which is what the clinton campaign says. >> in fact, i think it is a reasonably good chance that is exactly what is going on. and to have this kind of cloud hanging over there, over the entire campaign, only to get answered a couple weeks after the election say guess what, it was nothing, seems to me highly problematic. there is a lot of pressure on comey. whether or not it's doable, i

think michael raises a good question, is another question. but there is an obligation to try to at least answer is this a big deal or is it not a big deal. >> rose: and how do they answer that? >> they have to go through and you can one way to answer it is if it turns out it was simply an information with duplicate emails where maybe huma abedin accessed her emails on this computer or maybe they came off the cloud, this is the same basket of emails that she already turned over, okay, the fbi has been through it. >> you are a political reporter s it hurting her? >> it is unquestionably hurting her her right now because it has given motivation to republicans at a time when the trump campaign was flagging, when republicans were demoralized and thinking that they were facing defeat. >> rose: if they say it was inching closer, that the numbers were between separating her and him were closing. >> the polls were certainly closing. whether they were closing fast enough is-- . >> rose: but still closing.

>> this helped accelerate that. the reason they are closing is trump has gone over a week without a major scandal affecting his campaign. >> it is is certainly possible and maybe likely that moses of these emails are duplicates of ones they've seen before. but all it takes is for, you know, several or even one, that they haven't seen before, there's a process they have to go through. does it contain classified information. >> but michael, remember, the bar is higher than that. when comey decided not to prosecute, he said that for this to be prosecutable, there would have to be either obstruction of justice or willful and intentional mishandling of classified information. so she's already been found to have had classified information on her server. >> even if there are dozens of new classified emails, it's not going to change much because we know there is over a hundred from his announcement over the summer. the interesting thing is if you are comey, is you probably want to wait until after the election if there is nothing here. imagine if comey came out on friday and said hey, we looked

at these and there's nothing here. he would get criticized even worse than he's getting now because people would say you created this whole hubbub for nothing. so if you are comey, i think you want this to play out over some time. and then be able to come back next mobt or so when the, you know, the pressure has come away from the campaign. >> rose: michael schmidt, suppose he finds something that is very pregnant? >> well, i mean we are certainly not going to know that before the election because if it-- look, a potential crime here would be why this might, might possibly be pertinent is if these emails were withheld for some reason. if he finds out that there is classified information, and it is sebs tiff, he wants to know why wasn't this turned over, huma abedin was supposed to produce all her emails to the fbi in the course of this investigation. why weren't these? was she hiding-- that's a whole separate exercise.

there's no evidence of this at this point but i'm saying if they find there is something in these emails that is classified, they haven't seen before, there an exercise they have to go through and it's likely to play out over some period of time. >> rose: is the criticism of the fbi director fair or unfair? >> i think that-- i think it's fair in the sense that this was highly unusual, if not unprecedented. he made a decision to affirmatively say something about an investigative matter after being advised by the justice department not to do that. that's something that any fbi dreblger would be criticized for do-- fbi director would be criticized for doing. so he probably should have anticipated that much more thab i think he did. i know there is a lot of discussion within the fbi about how to play this out and they did take seriously all the implications.

but i don't think they had somebody at the table who was quite advising him just what a furor this would cause. >> here is an interesting situation where he was criticized in part, for what he said the first time he made a statement, then when he went before congress. he was criticized at that time by donald trump and now criticized by the hillry clinton camp. i mean he-- he is damned if he dusker damned if he dnt. >> the clinton campaign has made a decision here to do what they did to ken star back in the 1990s to vilify the prosecutor and to make him the issue. they did it very effectively with ken starr but in this case you are talking about the fbi director. true, he was-- served under president bush, he was a registered republican. but nobody thinks that he is a shil for donald trump. and you have right now a democratic partisans like harry weid, basically accusing him of

using his office to try to get trump elected president. it's a-- i think it's an ot strategy when you consider that he is serving a ten year term. he is a guy that is seen-- this might have been a clumsy move, not the way to go. but is he not somebody trying to tip the scales in this election. and right now that is the way they are portraying him. like i said t is a ten area rose: michael.irector.m, hey >> comey saw this as the-- comey saw this as the lesser of two evils. he said i will get really criticized here no matter what i do. but i can live with the criticisms of my judgement for doing this now. but i don't think-- but what he says i couldn't live with the criticism that i suppressed information before the election. i think he thought the history books would be much harsher on him and harsher on the fbi if that were to come out. and that was too big of a risk for him. >> rose: so what happens if he discovers something that is damaging to her, maybe an email that was deleted that shouldn't have been deleted, whatever it might be, that was classified and they said they were not

classified. >> we're in incredibly unchartered territory here. who really knows what is going to happen in the next week. he could om out and give an update in a few days. he may feel the pressure to do that. to try and pri dict it is very unusual because no one thought that this would come back. this email thing was done. it was closed in july it was over. and now it's back going again. >> i think that jonathan made a good point of looking past the election, assuming hillary clen ton wins. yeah, james comey is going to be her fbi director. and just imagine what kind of relationship that is going to be. it was already almost certainly going to be tense because of the original comments that he made in july calling her actions extremely careless. which many people in the clinton camp and elsewhere criticized. so you know, now doubly to imagine that they're going to

have to work together, it is by the way, a parallel to go back to the first clinton administration. bill clinton and louis freeh were not even on speakk terms, louis freeh wouldn't go to the white house. and the idea that in the-- in a new clinton administration, once again the white house is going to be in a feud or war or battle with the fbi is not a healthy situation. >> i think comey wants the fbe to have this reputation where we follow the facts. we don't care about politics. so if he is seen one day as going after the republicans and another day going after the democrats, then that sort of plays into that narrative that they don't care. we're just going to do what we think is right and follow the evidence. >> rose: of course the justice department is saying you're not following procedure. >> right. >> we have well established rules for this. >> there are also questions here that loretta lynch, the attorney general has to answer. you know, she-- her people

advised comey not to send that letter, saying it violated long-standing policy. she could have ordered him not to send it. >> right. >> and she chose not to because i think we can assume she didn't want to be to face the potential political criticism of concealing or blocking the fbi from taking investigative steps related, that might be relate to the clinton investigation, so in some ways she went through the same sort of kal you can lus that comey did. now comey did an affirmative step to make something public so it's not quite the same. but i think the fact that they both had this kind of political kal you can lus, what am i going to be attacked for if i do something is worth noting here. and it may, it may affect hillary clinton's decision about whether she wants to keep loretta lynch on as attorney general or not. >> rose: does huma abedin know what is on that computer? >> we don't know. >> i don't think so. i don't think so.

because, well, if you-- you know, she was asked to turn over all of her electronics. all of the, you know, stuff that could have classified information on it and by all accounts it looks like everyone did turn over the things that they had to. and what we had heard from people that we talked to that had been briefed on the investigation is that she has no clue how these emails ended up on the laptop. >> rose: well, how did they? >> well, we do know from her interview with the fbi in april that she said at one point she routinely forwarded state department emails and documents to both her, clinton email account and her personal yahoo account. so she could more easily print them. and at one point the agents actually confronted her with an email that had an attachment of a pakistani policy paper written by an aide to richard holbrooke

that was on her personal yahoo account 57bd asked how did it get there, and that is when she gave that explanation that she forwarded them. so i think it's likely that this laptop of her husbands had either her personal yahoo account and or her clinton email account on it, and that is how they got there, and by the way, that 302 is an indication that this could well have the kind of substantive and possibly sensitive policy documents and emails on it. now whether or not they were turned over as part of some other production is what we don't know at this point. >> my question about that is did she say it was policy documents or did she simply say st was like state department pronouncements. >> well, actually, in her judicial watch civil deposition she said she forwarded state department press clips to her yahoo account. >> exactly. >> that's what she said in the civil deposition. but if you read the the fbi302

which i did over the weekend, there she is confronted with this policy paper. a pakistani policy paper. on it. and she said this is the sort of material she routinely forwarded to that yahoo account. so there is a discep see between what she said in the civil deposition and what she told the fbi in april. >> i assume they would not be classified, would they? >> i think some of them could be classified, yeah. >> rose: so she was finished over to that computer, that was classified? >> well, we know that there were classified emails that mr. being circulated by hillary clinton and their senior staffers including huma abedin so it is entirely possible that some of these were considered-- . >> rose: you have to raise one last point, help me understand what she was supposed to, what hillary clinton supposedly deleted from her server some 30,000 emails, they were all supposed to be personal, and ine

deleted as part of that, the clinton team-- they said they didn't go through each one, just through an algorithm and there may have been some mistakes made. >> rose: harry reid raised the question of whether the fbi is sitting on evidence of some link between the trump himself or the trump campaign and vladimir putin and the russian intelligence operations. do you know anything about that? well, what reid is saying is okay, so you go out and you notify and make this thing public about the emails. you go out and why is it you are talking about one and not talking about the other. now what comey, what the fbi is saying is basically comey made this pledge to congress to be as transparent as possible in the aftermath of the investigation.

and he basically would say that he made this pledge and he has to update congress because he told him the investigation was completed and closed. >> rose: we haven't seen any good polls that impact what is happening or not. >> we have our abc news tracking poll, we announced two days of polling data and our post comey and what it shows is further tightening of the race. we're now one point lead nationally. this will be fought in the battleground states. there is no polling in the battleground states. but our poll shows that republicans are now more energy identifies, more likely to vote and as a result it has come to a one point race nationally. >> rose: both michael is in washington, do you believe comey will say something before the election? >> i thought he might just to explain it, that was a couple of days ago. the latest i'm hearing is no.

but i think he's taking it day by day. he's certainly hearing all the criticism he's getting and that's got to sting. some of the crit im-- critics are people who he respects, has worked with. larry thompson who was his predecessor as deputy attorney general signed that op ed with jaimy-- taking him to task over this. that is not easy for him. so i don't know, at some point will want to explain himself. >> before the election, michael smith? >> you know, i would be surprised. i think the fbi's hope is they can just get through this stuff and get through the election without any more headlines coming out of it. but to mike's point there is this eric holder op ed in "the washington post" today which is extremely critical of comey. and holder was the attorney general when comey started out as the fbi director. now they weren't-- they clashed a lot, but at the same time to have the attorney general that

you worked for, you know, taking you to task publicly, that's got to have an impact. >> rose: thank you, michael, thank you, michael, thank you, jonathan. >> thank you. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. neil shen is here, one of chien a's most successful investors. in 2005 he founded sequoia capital china. its portfolio includes nearly all of that country's largest venturebacked companies. the firm has been instrumental in bringing american companies to the chinese market. these include linkedin, airbnb and w-- last week zto expressed sequoia backed chinese became the largest public offering of 2016. i'm pleased to have neil shen at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thank you, charmie. >> rose: goods to you have here. >> thank you. >> rose: tell me where you think the chinese economy is at this moment? >> i think, you know, if you look at last ten years the

g-- gdp growth has come down. i would say the quality of the growth has improved. if you are looking at the consumer economy, their weight in overall gdp has moved up. and i think will continue to do so. the last year or so you are hearing very strong policy towards the supply side reform. clarily the government tries to push for the consumer economy taking more weight, over the service industry. able to responsible more weight in the whole economy. these are great signs. >> are you aware-- worried about dead sph. >> clearly that's an issue people have been talking about. but in general w a high growth economy, i think a lot of issues could be solved. and if you are looking at today's chinese economy, there is something called a new economy. and something called old economy, old economy refers to traditional american business, clearly a lot of challenges. and the new economy, are talking about sectors like information

technology, health cares, and consumer sectors which link to the consumption-- those all do great. >> rose: and are you seeing american companies like apple make huge investments. >> exactly. not just information technology, in different stect sectors there are health-care companies. there is, you know, consumer companies all really want to pen straight into china or penetrate more into china. >> how long will it thaik them to turn this economy around from being an export economy to a domestic consumer? >> i tmink a lot of things already in the making. and great progress has been made. and i don't know how long it will take for the consumer economy to respond for the type of like you see in the u.s. but the trend is good. looking at one data point, last year in this quarter, november 11th, which is the online

shopping day for chinese consumer, 14 billion transactions was done through one single company, that is all i baba in the u.s. we know there is a cybermonday, we only have a billion dollar sales in a day. so the chinese consumer clarily has a very big appetite and i think this is the way to go. >> is alibaba going to go global? >> very much so. in fact, today they have sales into the u.s., sales into europe and to middle east noorks south asia. and if you look at all the major e-commerce company in china, not just alibab, jd.com, all actually have international ambitions. >> rose: and what about financial markets. >> well, it has been a bit volatile last year. >> rose: yes, an apt distribution. >> it's getting much better this year. in factd, i think we are seeing a clear reform measures in place

to encourage the so called new economy companies or the innovative companies to able to get listed more easily in china. and i think some of those reforms that the chinese government put in place. >> rose: you have had an interesting life. you came, you went to school in china then came to yale. >> that's right. >> rose: from yale to wall street. >> that's correct. >> rose: decided when things were getting really good in china, you leave wall street and go back to china. >> i got a call after i had worked for city bank for two years. one said it is great, you have a yale background, you came from china. we want you in china to helping the chinese company to raise money oversees. so i decided that's great. and it's just a starting point of those chinese companies trying to raise money either from hong kong listings, from u.s. listings. and i joined lehmann brothers and work on a number of chinese

financing and equity financing. >> rose: and were you involved in a company that went, that you helped build which was in the expedia business. >> that's right. so i am very proud of that. because in 1999 after working in the banking industry for more than six years i decided i should try something more entrepreneur. and so i cofounded sea trip together with two of my friends. >> rose: sea trip-- c trip. >> meaning chinese trip, we try to learn from-- . >> rose: kind of an expedia china. >> exactly. but today we're almost the same size, like expedia. >> rose: yes. >> with 16 years of history. it's a 25 plus billion dollar market company. >> rose: and so then you decided to go into venture capital. >> because i think my background-- . >> rose: with sequoia but making it run from china with china decision making. >> that's right. i think it's a very great setup.

on one hand you have a global brand. you have the 40 year experience and views on technology, on global basis. with sequoia. and the same time we have the decision making on the ground by local team. and that's very important. because they're a very unique dynamics in china. oftentimes some of those things work in the u.s. may not work in china and vice versa. >> rose: does china have the equivalent of a silicon valley. >> i think you don't look at one single city. i think if you combine the cities of beijing, shanghai, shin jin and-- to some extent they're bigger than silicon valley, don't you think? >> rose: but think of what you just combined. >> exactly. and to some extent they are unique edge for certain sectors. like you have some wonderful manufacturing facilities. >> rose: right. >> some wonderful supply chains which are already in place. so for a consumer electronics company, you might have a better chance to be successful in china

compared with here in the u.s. >> rose: so what do you advise american companies who first want to penetrate the chinese market what they sell cars or household appliances or whatever they sell. >> there is one important note here. 30 years ago if are you leading u.s. company, i think if you penetrate into the chain ease market, it is easy exercise. today the local companies are very competitive to you really need to think about whether you have an edge there. and on top of that-- . >> rose: you have to have a local presence too. >> exactly. not only local presence but you need to localize your product and services. and you better to do that working with strong local business partners and with a local team. because the chinese business people are very entrepreneur. >> rose: right. >> and you need someone, a top team in talent with an entrepreneurial mindset to help you, not just another guy listen to the head office. >> rose: what happened to

uber. >> i think they compete-- . >> rose: they went over there to compete and they basically said no, we're going to combine with the largest chinese company, they're going to buy us and we're out. >> i think there is no different than any other sectors in china where we see, for example, in the local listings are spaced two company, one called a 58. the other called a-- they compete for many years and finally decided to merge. and same for another company we have, found there, may tz twan versus its competitor t is-- . >> rose: but look at it in china today, whatever the major american tech success whether it's google or facebook there is a chinese verg. people look at what is going on here and then build their own company because there is such a big market, they are able to grow very fast, correct? >> correct. but i would say increasingly more. you see in some business models which you never see here in the

u.s. >> rose: how is that, what are they like. >> for example dt gi, the largest commercial-- company in the world, they are leveraging the manufacturing capability and supply chain. they have done a wonderful job that they actually are able to increase their market share. beating their competitor globally. again it's original technology. developed in china. >> rose: take apple, for example, when they look at a phenomenal success of the iphone and iphone six, the chinese market was a big part of that. >> for sure. >> rose: it's declining, yes? >> because there is competition. >> rose: very competitive product offering there. and there is no different. if you go to india, if you go to europe, you might have the same challenge. so any company, you know, you need to be successful in china. you have to be competitive. and chinese consumers are getting sophisticated. there are a lot of local companies who will have their very unique technology or business models.

you have to be prepared. >> rose: the interesting thing to me about apple, there was some skepticism that their price point would be appealing to chinese consumers. it turned out it was very appealing to chinese consumers. they wanted quality. >> but you know, if you look at a few emerging chinese brand, they also have a very high quality. >> rose: right. >> and you have to face that challenge. and you have to compete effectively. and i think there is not really a policy, it's really how much your product is competitive and make sure you have the local-- partner to work with you. >> rose: the burgeoning middle class, mr people have come from poverty in middle class than any time in civilization in china. >> you also create huge buying power, you are the biggest market in so many industries and so many companies around the world. >> rose: yeah. >> whether it's cars or television or whatever it might be. >> and including the chinese who are buying overseas products. and i see that is a great actually help for u.s. companies

because many of those u.s. consumer companies could actually have another layer of growth, thanks to that demand. >> rose: okay. tell me about zto express. >> i think it's such a fantastic story because-- sz sequoia made a billion dollars. >> a lot more than that, because this is a very typical local entrepreneur. he never went to high school. he actually start his business with his fellow friends. and he was brought newspaper mown taish-- . >> rose: what did he do? >> he identified his opportunity where people want a very good fulfillment in delivery services when they buy product at alibaba. so he actually noticed the opportunity, he acted on it. it is not easy. >> rose: that is why amazon spent a ton of money on delivery so they can deliver within hours. >> exactly. and they are able to become the largest express delivery company in china. lack at it, 15 million parcels are delivered daily with very

high quality of services. >> rose: started by one man and his friends with no college education, no high school education, wasn't it? >> yeah. he actually started before his high school, yeah. so you know, he came, he was brought up in a mountain village, just about one and a half hour drive from-- and obviously-- . >> rose: what do you attribute his success to, simply the drive to-- be good? >> first of all, he is a smart businessman, business savvy. secondly i think he run his business with transparency, with you know, shared his success with customers and his supplies. and you know, i think he had the right partner. honestly, we had been a big help after we made investment four years ago. >> rose: speaking of that, are you in business with my sometimes friend and sometimes business partner ari manuel, that is sports, what are you

doing? >> they have in china for more than seven years. what we want to do is helping them to escalate to the next level of success because sports mark in china is just in recession of high dpros. >> rose: marketing sports. >> sports, events, nedia, including online media, and i saw sports just like ten years ago when people starting to look at entertainment space in china. and when people are paying more attention to all those sports activities, the advertisement dollar came in, this is the right time. and i already are doing well in china. he has the golf tournament and he has various events in china. but with local, i think we can really become a very dominant force in china. >> you don't talk much about the government. >> if are you looking at the last several years i think the policy is very-- . >> rose: you mean a five area

plan, buy in, you think that is the plan. >> i will give a few examples. one there is a strong promotion about invasion and entrepreneurship, building an ecosystem around that. including government supported-- fund. and i think it is a very important fact ner driving entrepreneur splits in china. >> rose: you travel and the world. you also go to india. what is happening in india? >> i see actually a very similar dynamic compared to china. in fact, maybe especially is like a china pfeiffer, ten years ago. mobile internet is growing very rapidly. and they are actually disrupting many traditional service sectors. and technology has been applied more extensively. obviously people are catching up on our infrastructure side. but i see very similar dynamics just like ten years ago. >> is google back in china? >> i don't know the details but i'm pretty sure if a u.s. company goes to china they

should do the same as they do at linking airbnb, find a local partner, localize the product, and try to live with the market. >> rose: were you the local partner for linked in, prpb snu. >> yeah that is exactly the way to do it. because you know, the market is competitive. and you need people to help you. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> rose: neil shen from sequoia china. back in a moment, stay with us. taylor goldsmithed is here, lead singer and guitarist for dawes. they have been called the best band you have never heard of. their fifth studio album is a departure from their classical laurel canyon sound it is called we're all going to die. rolling stone called the album a slicked up version of their '70s ideals with a big fm radio sounds. here is dawes performing the single roll with the punches right here in our studio.

♪ ♪ ♪ separation was electrical. ♪ ♪ low groaing lists of demand, lines in the sand. ♪ trying most of the damage was-- . ♪ but still inspired some debate snoatd on all the principles of why are the people we love all the same as we could also hate.

♪ ♪ ♪ just roll with the punches. ♪ oh yeah. ♪ separation was-- snoatd deciding what belongs to whom. ♪ how dying lover meant. ♪ in a rug, decorations of a room. ♪ every promise was

negotiateddable. ♪ most of all the ones they made. ♪ what she finally took aim. ♪ learning how to not pick up the phone. ♪ just roll with the punches. ♪ until you can't feel a thing. ♪ just roll with the punches. ♪ oh yeah. ♪ if separation was a miracle.

♪. >> eye. ♪ feutd sin they sized. ♪ just roll with the punches. ♪ until you can't feel a thing. ♪ just roll with the punches. ♪ oh yeah. ♪ just roll with the punches. ♪ till you can't feel a thing. ♪ just rom with the punches. ♪ oh yeah.

♪ >> rose: i'm pleased to have taylor goldsmith at this table for the first time, welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> rose: there was much written about your effort to find the right sound. tell me about that. why it is important what you didn't want to be what you did want to be, and how do you do that? >> well, i wonder, i feel like to a certain degree any artist sort of shuns a label that is put on them. like you know when you start to tell nir vana you are a grung band, i feal like they would resist that. and or any example. you know, like someone like neil young, could you tell by how much the music changes, that it is clear that the artist identifies themselve as something that goes way beyond just a simple genre so for us, you know, folk music or 70s'

music are big influences but just the same as music that was made, you know, these last few years or whatever. so i feel like you know any artist, you want to give the full spectrum of what inspires you and what you want to express. and so i guess in that sense, it's always exciting and inspiring to try to incorporate whatever else that means so much to us, but that hasn't yet become a part of our catalog. >> the part about being unique and authentic. >> yeah, and also trying to find that line of how do you-- . >> rose: not looking or sounding like somebody else. >> right, and also honoring what feels good about what you already are. not abandoning your sense of self but just adding to it and elaborating upon it. >> rose: you had this interesting comment that art sometimes makes a suggestion. and sometimes art is disruptive. >> well yeah, i feel like for me, there's so many artists that

can make a mere announcement where, and it can be very effective where it can-- i can sit here with an acoustic guitar and say she left me, i'm alone, i'm sad. and that's going to make someone feel empathetic to a certain degree, like that's a sad story. but i feel like if you leave it at that, it can sort of leave someone hanging whereas the great stuff, not always but it has an opportunity to offer a means of moving forward and you know, whether that's through the lyrics or just through the sound of the music. something that like i said offers a suggestion where you can take something and learn from it and feel empowered or feel ed iified because of what the the music has brought you through, rather than just drag you through the mood. >> we're all going to die, is that it. >> there is the song and then the album. and i don't feel like its he to me it's not sad. i feel like as a songwriter, you have to write whatever inspires you. and for me, you know, you spend time think being or dwelling

upon the things that are on your mind. and so for me, the idea of death or with that song, it's more about our sense of purpose and our sense of self. >> you mentioned song writing serl times. do you separate yourself as a songwriter wir from being a guitarist or being a vocalist or anything else or just simply all the same coming under music. >> i would consider myself a songwriter first. i like singing my own songs. i don't want to shall did dish don't want to-- i've never had that feeling of i want to go to a certain city and just start writing for all these other people. i like being in a band and i love playing guitar and singing. >> because are you a songwriter. >> i think that is what compelled me to stay with it. >> is the live show the best thing for you? >> you would much rather be doing a live show than being in the studio recording an album. >> i feel more comfortable on a stage. because we clock to many hours. whereas in a studio we made five records and they have been fun but they all last about a month

each. every time they go in, it still feels brand new to me. and on stage it can change over the course from night to night but also from song to song where all of a sudden i feel connected and i feel like we're all communicating in a way that he with can't otherwise. audience and band. >> do you feel some sense that the artist comes in without a certificate peption of you and what you can do within that three hours or however long it is you change them in terms of how they see you. >> i think it's something that you earn. i don't think it's a simple thing of you are going to come in here and be quiet and you're going to let me do. this i want to be able to get to those slow balance adds where everyone plays and sings softly. and i want to feel like you wanted to be quiet and engage with us on this. i don't-- i like the idea of looking at the relationship between a band or an artist and an audience as a dance and we kind of have to get to this

place where we're in line with each other. and when you guys want to get big or you want to get big, we have to go there together. when we want to get down and int mantes they want to do the same thing. >> when you began did you identify yourself as folk? >> i guess so. when we began we were so unaware of so much important music. like we, you know, i would listen a lot of leonard cohen and bob dillon and we made our first record and people said you sound like are you from california, which we are. but i didn't even know what that meantment and people are like you got to check out jackson brown and warren glefon, joni mitchell, artists i wasn't aware of or only peripherally. >> rose: and you want to be informed but dns dns we didn't start doing our homework until people associated us with those artists. us to, when people say you play acoustic guitar and sing harmonies you are a folk band.

i guess that makes sense, we never thought about it. >> rose: debuted number one on the billboard folk charts. >> yeah. which is great. >> rose: i think folk is more of an ideal now, it's so impossible to put into any sonic terms or sonic context. i feel like folk just means a sense of-- it's a matter of perspective. if someone is more lyric conscience or focused, if that say priority at all for an artist, people will say the words country are folk, it doesn't matter if it sounds like lady gaga, that is just going to be the way people interpret it. >> it also gives you a chance to be a new band. >> yeah, and that's something that-- we kind of, i think that any band depends on. you look at any artist that you, that we all love that have been able to stay around through the years and there is also those turning points. in most cases, several of them. and if they don't, if they aren't brave enough to take those steps, they don't really stay in the conversation it seems.

>> this how do you say is an album and a song about what it is like to fall in love. >> if an indirect way, yeah. i had spent the last. >> were you falling in love when are you writing the songs? >> yes, even though it's not necessarily about art, because for some reason, i guess at this point in nie life-- my life, that aspect of my life became more sacred than ever before. it became something that i wasn't as comfortable with kind of putting on display. so the songs aren't necessarily about that directly, but they come from someone who i, i felt like hi this wake-up call and i felt like i had-- hi realized a certain joy and like i said, a certain sacredness that i had never experienced before. so the songs come from it, even though you know they are titles like quitter and for no good reason and we're all going to die. >> rose: where is she when are you on the road? >> she is at home. she's an actress working real hard with that. luckily she is as busy as i am. >> you open for bob dylan, his

2013 tour. >> yeah. >> rose: did you get to know him. >> i got to meet him briefly it was obviously a high point in my whole life. >> rose: did you talk about song writing? >> it was 20 seconds but did he mention, he did-- he did mention, he is like what is that. >> rose: it is nice of you to say it. >> he did say like what's that last balance add you play. and i told him the name of that song. he is like that's a great song. so that was our conversation about song writing. obviously it meant the world to me. i love all the stuff that is going on. >> rose: because it's a recognition of song writing as a serious literary expression. >> exactly. like i read an interesting quote, someone talking about how all these playwrights have gotten the same exact nobel prize for literature. and that stuff is not intended for the page. it's intended to be performed, to be heard. so for that to now be going to a musician, it's really no different. i love it inspires a debate. i have a friend who is a

professor who started calling me and texting me, because he teaches writing and he's like what do you think. all of a sudden there is this dialogue. and to me it's a no brainer. i'm a song wrierg so i'm biased. but to me it is like of course he deserves it. >> where do you want it to go and is it constantly changing in terms of how you see the music evolving it or simply something you will discover as you-- in other words, is there more vision, more plan or more simply be open to wherever it takes you. >> i think the latter. but i also think, for us it's always been a matter of just creating a work of art that starts to resemble our commitment to it and our entire life. like my heroes, musicians and otherwise, it goes beyond one song or one album or one povie or one book. but looking at the dedication that spanned for 40 or 50 years.

>> rose: yeah. >> like what you do. these examples of-- these examples of guys that have just dedicated to what they loved for so long, that overwhelms me. ando me, rather than saying to you i want to play in front of 15,000 people, as wonderful as that would be and as much as i want to do that, it is much more about i want to be able to look back and show my kids like look at these 20 or 30 records that i made, that speak for the times in my life when i was these ages or whatever. that is always been the dream. >> rose: much success to you. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you. we're all going to die, dawes, here it it is. thank you. snoatd. ♪ ♪ moving slow and drinking. ♪ i would love.

♪ ♪ ♪ down the hall. ♪ they had put on the stereo. ♪ the album just a song. ♪ there are a lot of leather jackets. ♪ there was a haircut. ♪ there was a lot. ♪ ♪ drinking champagne. ♪ we'll be drinking champagne. ♪ we'll be drinking champagne.

♪ the girls forgot their bathing suits but felt like jumping in the pool. ♪ right after making sure the underwater lights were on. ♪ i was staring at her silhouette. ♪ i was blushing like a fool. ♪ letting everyone pretend they had a planet all their own. ♪ with his glasses slightly bent. ♪ ♪ lady and gentlemen. ♪ we've gone the initial desent. ♪ now it's time to pull up on the wheel. ♪ we'll be drinking champagne. ♪ we'll be drinking champagne.

♪ we'll be drinking champagne. ♪ we'll be feeling no pain. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ western on the floor of the riff living room. ♪ i saw my past life. ♪ laying next to their handsome new plane. ♪ i see and recognize the face too much. ♪ except for the grimace on his mouth. ♪ he looked a lot like me. ♪ seemed to be insane.

♪ i didn't see the rising sun. ♪ i could feel the morning free. ♪ then i heard a voice speak up and say i think this party's done. ♪ she has to drive her home. ♪ we'll be dringing champagne. ♪ we'll be drinking champagne. ♪ we'll be drinking champagne. ♪ we'll be feeling no pain. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. funding for charlie rose is provided by the >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

>> announcer: the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ >> must have soup! >> the pancake is to die for! [ laughs ] >> it was a gut-bomb, but i liked it. >> good. i actually fantasize, in private moments, about the food i had. >> i didn't like it. >> you didn't like it? oh, okay. >> dining here makes me feel rich. >> and what about dessert? pecan pie, sweet potato pie.