>> rose: welcome to the program. we continue our campaign coverage with a look at the clinton e-mails and the actions of the f.b.i. director james comey. we talked to anne gearan of the "the washington post," devlin barrett of the "wall street journal" and molly ball of "the atlantic." >> the clinton campaign strategy is to muddy the waters and make it look as a partisan attack so people who are galvanized are galvanized to support her more rather than having doubts about her. but the amazing thing about this story is how little anybody knows. >> rose: including the f.b.i. the trump campaign certainly doesn't know what's on that laptop, the clinton campaign doesn't know what's on the laptop. >> the f.b.i. or the white house doesn't know what's on the laptop. even huma abedin says she doesn't know. >> rose: we continue with jon

meacham, the biographer of george h.w. bush. >> the 20th century ended early. clinton understood the new world we were living in, cable tv, the intersection of celebrity and politics. as i said before, bill clinton went on arsenio hall. bush thought it was a building. >> rose: and we conclude with tommy hilfiger, an american designer. >> i never wanted the business to slow, stall or get steal, so i continually think of what is next. i love technology. i love taking that next step. i love taking risks and i love e business forward. so i think we're at the forefront of changing the

paradigm in the fashion business. i think tommy hilfiger the company, my incredible team, and i are looking at really changing the rules in the entire industry. >> rose: the presidential campaign, jon meacham and tommy hilfiger, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin with our continuing coverage of the

continue verse surrounding james comey. some pointed out he was in a difficult damned if he did and didn't position to come forward with what's in the e-mails. justice department officials said no further information will be released until the investigation is completed. the f.b.i. director has been accused of partisanship and trying to interfere with the election. spokesman josh earnest said he believed the f.b.i. director had no intention to influence the election. here with me is devlin barrett of the "wall street journal," anne gearan of "the washington post" and molly ball from "the atlantic." pleased to have all of them here. devlin, tell me where the investigation is today and what we're expecting to happen between now and the election. >> they have thousands of what they call potential hits meaning the original metadata on the

computer that they are looking at indicates messages to or from the hillary clinton email server. so they're now in the process of scanning through those actual e-mails, looking at the actual content of those e-mails and seeing if they are duplicates of e-mails they've already seen, how many are duplicates and, most importantly, how many aren't duplicates, how many would be essentially new e-mails and if there's any of that information classified, and they've begun that process. most of the folks i've talked to involved in this work expected it to take weeks in part. if you have just one email that mentions something sensitive about foreign relations they will look at it to determine relevance. >> rose: does that mean there is anything disclosed that will have an impact on the election? >> people say there is an outside exans they will say something before the election. most of the people i talk to are skeptical they will be able to

pull it off, but there is some hope if all they find are duplicates and they can figure it out quickly they may be able to say something before election day. >> rose: how do they view that because donald trump says if they don't do this, we may have an indictment of a sitting president. >> rose: i think investigators will tell you generally they don't get to pick their schedule and frankly there is no way to make it go faster without possibly missing stuff which frankly would only make the situation worse. so i think what a lot of people talk to me say, look, it's very likely that the next president, if it's hillary clinton, could be sworn in while an investigation is ongoing, and, frankly, while more than one investigation is ongoing. >> rose: but looking at "the washington post" today, f.b.i. chief, the lead story, draws storm of protest, all sides

demand details of email probe. do everybody, the hillary clinton campaign, the trump campaign, want this to be released before? do they want the investigation not to extend into past election day is this. >> well, certainly from the clinton campaign standpoint, they want something out there that gives some shape and direction to this. as devlin just said, one possibility of it is that the f.b.i. could say in an initial scan of this material, it appears that most all or some are duplicates and, you know, we're going to proceed with a smaller slice of the pie to see whether there is any relevance to classified material. that would at least narrow the scope and kind of give some form to this. one of the biggest problems for clinton campaign is they're dealing with a whole series of

unknowns and hypothetical questions, which is basically the worst possible position for them to be in. they don't even really know what they're fighting against, and you saw that, you know, the campaign sort of flailing around yesterday trying to draw equivalency between this investigation and reports that comey had not released information that might potentially tie other hacks to the russians in a timely fashion and saying that he had been behaving with a double standard. that's just a hair away from accusing him of partisan bias, which other democrats are doing. that kind of back and forth doesn't really help, and the campaign from the clinton perspective, the clinton campaign has to gut it out a few days and hope they have greater information. on the republican side, this is manna from heaven and the

uncertainty actually, i would think, benefits their side of the argument because they can fill in the blanks with a lot of things that may be true but no one knows whether they are or not. >> rose: molly, will it have an impact? it's already evidently having an impact, so you have to start with the fact that what's happened so far has an impact. >> it's hard to know not only because it's hard to predict the future but there was already a trend of tightening, by the polls, before this dropped. it's to the benefit of trump campaign to paint this as a cloud of suspicion over hillary clinton, whatever she does, the impression she has so much baggage, that is something his supporters already believe, but the clinton campaign may have worried she may have had soft supporters, particularly republicans and conservative-leaning independents who find trump

unacceptable. after that last debate a lot may be willing to consider her acceptable and this may have shut the door, cut into their margin. they are confident she will win the election because of battleground states and the fact millions of people already voted. but i don't see any way in which this is beneficial. i suppose there is an argument it could galvanize supporters. as anne said, the clinton campaign strategy is to muddy the waters as much as possible and try to make this look as a partisan attack because people who are galvanized to support her more rather than having doubts about her. but the amazing thing about the story is how little anybody knows. >> rose: exactly, including the f.b.i. >> the trump campaign doesn't know what's on that laptop. the clinton campaign doesn't know what's on the laptop. the f.b.i., the white house doesn't know what's on the laptop, even huma abedin says she doesn't know what's on the laptop. >> rose: does anthon does anthoy

weiner know what's on the laptop? >> i haven't had the privilege to ask him. >> rose: devlin, no one knows what's there? >> evidently. forensics takes weeks. obviously they will put a lot of resources and manpower into this but anything they do quickly will be a heavy lift for them. i don't think anyone has a good grasp of what's going on. my latest information is the term people are using inside the f.b.i. is potential hits. this tells you the unknowability of what they may have. >> rose: what does that mean, potential hits? >> the reason they figured this out at all is because the people handling the separate investigation were looking at the metadata on the computer, meaning the tos and froms like the outside of the envelope for a mail. they saw traffic from huma abedin's accounts into and from

the clinton accounts, linked to the clinton email server. they don't know what they are because the original search didn't allow them to look at the content of the messages. what they have begun doing now, they have a precise warrant for that information, is they're scanning all that content. they'll scan it, see which ones they think they need to have an actual human eye go over and they need to pair those up with what they've already seen in other parts of the investigation. someone was telling me this could be as complicated as we've already looked at five e-mails in a chain and this computer has the sixth response to those five, so it's that level of down in the weeds granularity they have to sort through. >> rose: exactly how many e-mails are they looking at? >> the whole laptop i'm told has 650,000 e-mails on it, but that's not the universe they need to worry about. they're worried about a smaller

universe, more than a thousand e-mails that have the metadata that seem to touch the clinton server. >> rose: do political pros including yourself see electoral pathway for donald trump? >> i mean, he has the same extraordinarily improbable one that he had last week before this happened. there are mathematical scenarios under which he can piece together an electoral college victory, but they have been unlikely for weeks now, and until this happened, all of the momentum was away from any of those implausible scenarios become morgue plausible. >> rose: but now? now, i mean, if he picks up florida and ohio and north carolina, he certainly has the beginnings at least of a plausible chance. i would call it a plausible chance. again, those are the three biggest prizes among the

battleground states on the map as we see it now. it's unlikely either candidate is going to pick up all three, but were he to do so, yeah, he could still piece together a win. >> rose: right now, according to what i understand, he's ahead in ohio and florida but behind in north carolina. is that correct? >> that's right. and the florida number is very much in dispute. the clinton campaign disputes "the washington post" abc tracking poll that came out yesterday that showed trump up by 1 in florida, but certainly the direction has been -- that clinton's lead has been eroding and it's essentially a tie in florida. >> rose: molly? it's still the case that in addition to those three big states, trump basically has to run the table of all the other swing states including place where is he's fallen further behind like colorado, then hold states that haven't been swing states in the last like arizonay hillary clinton is campaigning

this week. it means given the strength she has in campaign organization, given the number of surrogates she's able to send out into the country that trump doesn't have because there are so many republicans unwilling to campaign with or for him, she's able to blitz all of these states at once while he and mike pence, his running mate, can hit a smaller number of targets. so we have trump doing multiple events a day, both candidates are doing multiple events in florida in the next couple of days, signifying the importance of that state. but whereas if hillary clinton wins florida, it's pretty much all over and even if she doesn't, she still can probably piece together a win. for trump, it's florida or bust. it's the necessary but not sufficient condition. >> rose: does he have to win pennsylvania. >> probably has to win pennsylvania, and he's done a lot in pennsylvania, more than a lot of the other swing states. that's a state where his

campaign thought he could make headway and it hasn't been happening because there seems to be a population of pennsylvania democrats who are willing to cross the line and vote for trump but seem to be outweighed by the number of pennsylvania republicans, particularly republican women in philadelphia who have been alienated by him and are going to other direction. >> rose: what about the impact of the obamacare debate and conversation? can we somehow find a way to detect whether that is influencing voters or is it simply confirming the feelings of people who already committed to one way or the other? >> very interesting. i know a lot of sad republicans these days, what might have been republicans who look at the way this campaign might be unfolding with a different candidate on top of the ticket, one who was really able to drive home a consistent and policy-based message on something like obamacare, so that the latest bad news about obamacare would feed into a message they already

established. instead, we do have donald trump now talking about it somewhat, although certainly betraying the fact he doesn't seem to understand what obamacare is on occasion, but, you know, giving a major speech about obamacare, trying to put this before the electorate and there just seems to be at this late date with so many people already having voted and so much noise out there, so many scandals and developments, it's hard to break through even with an issue as significant as that. >> rose: what do all of you expect in the next week? we have one week to go. simply the candidates barn storming around the crucial states and nothing really dramatic happening. >> i think a lot of dramatic thricts happening simultaneously. >> rose: what beyond the email is happening. >> i think a lot of stories are coming out over the last day about potential links to russia.

the whole access hollywood tape and the women being assaulted, it's hard to remember that that was just in the last few weeks. so a lot of these controversies i think would have consumed months of a normal campaign end up being blips in the radar just because we've seen so many rapid-fire developments. the most important thing is so many people are voting. so much of this election is over. >> rose: what do we know in terms of turnout and how well each candidate is doing? >> that's very difficult to read. what seems to be the trend is that the clinton campaign sees good prospects in a lot of state where they are relatively unopposed but not as well in ohio where they have a governor

that operate well-run machines where trump never built a campaign on his own. so promising for republicans in oh oh and iowa. florida, the democratic vote looked strong early on, now looks more like a tie. we political reporters sound like broken records every year talking about florida. >> rose: we have a popular vote going one way and the electoral going another? >> i doubt that just because of hillary clinton's strength in the electoral college. >> rose: let me come back to the email controversy one more time and ask this question. brett stevens, devlin of your newspaper had a quote in a column today where he basically said "now he has flouted justice department protocols to protect his position and reputation.

that's harsh criticism. do you have see that coming from sources you might have expected, does that have an impact, is the f.b.i. being taibtd, are there -- tainted, are there long-term consequences of this? >> i think there are. you hear in politics all the time investigations hurt politicians because it's a cloud that hangs over them. i think you're seeing a very interesting dynamic which is the investigation may also hang over the agency doing the investigating. this is causing real toxicity and distrust within the f.b.i. i've written about that about internal disagreements about how to handle clinton issues within the f.b.i. and dodge. this only aggravates that. the other question, are other people in law enforcement concerned about the way james comey has handled this, the answer is absolutely. so much to the extent that some of the people who believe the

clinton investigations have been held back by the higher-ups, even though they believe that, they still think the director was wrong to handle this the way he did because it's too far outside the norms and the process. what they sometimes say at the d.o.j. and the f.b.i. is the process protects us because we'll get crit sued anyway and now we're deviating from the process. >> rose: the president said i think through the words of josh earnest, there is no doubt in his mindhat the f.b.i. director had any intent the affect the elections. >> right and tun one of the things you hear is james comey is honorable and fair. if nothing else what this shows is he's not afraid to put a big bet on the table. this is a big bet he's making this will end up proven to be the right move. but i don't think it's at all

clear yet that the rest of the government will end up agreeing with him on that point. i think there is a lot of consternation within the justice department about what he's done and a lot of consternation in the congress about what he's done and those are two areas that he ultimately answers to and that's going to be an interesting dynamic to see how it plays out. and imagine if this turns up nothing. imagine if down the road we're told these are all duplicate emace, this doesn't really change anyone's opinion of anything. then all these discussions get intense in terms of why did he do this. >> rose: devlin thank you so much. anne. molly. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: jon meacham is here, pulitzer prize winning historian and executive editor at random house. his most recent book destiny and

power was published this month and offered historical insights into the presidential campaign. his october editorial in the "new york times" traces today's divide g.o.p. to the right wing forces that took shape under president bush in the late 1980s. welcome back to the table. >> thank you, sir. >> rose: win or lose, what happens to the republican party? >> well, having noted that it was in opposition to this president that you wrote about. >> there is a moment october of 19 # 0 where cnn does a split screen of george h.w. bush walking out with congressional leadership to announce the budget deal that broke the no new taxes pledge. on the other side was newt gingrich going out the front door. >> rose: there it was. that is the partisanship bronco chase, in many ways. he knew the economy was in

trouble but he somehow -- did he know he was signing his -- >> yes, he knew that he would be dead meat, correct, but he believed -- and this is what redeems george bush, in my mind. >> rose: explain the decision he had to make. >> in late june of 1990, because of what -- we used to care about the deficit back in the day. there was an enormous deficit. there was a great sense of imperial decline, paul kennedy's book, rise and fall of the great powers, there was very much a moment that we believe deficit spending was costing us our power. bush faced a strongly democratic congress. george mitchell running the senate, tom foley running the house, jim sacert running the

budget committee, very tough guys, he was facing enormous pressure to raise taxes in order to deal with the deficit. democrats have been out offpower, for at that point, ten years. ronald reagan had fundamentally shifted american politics in the summer of 1991 by passing kemp roth which lowered marginal rates to the highest, 28%, and the democrats had been chasing to get that back up through the decade. bush had very little political capital. he had run on the "read my lips." he was uncomfortable continue vert to -- >> rose: his his thing was foreign policy. >> very much so. if june of 1990, feeling the pressure, he agreed to excise taxes -- cigarettes, liquor,

gas -- >> rose: consumption taxes. exactly. the right wing ultimately led by newt gingrich bolts on the president, their president, which totally throws bush off because bush was and is the best of party soldiers, in many ways. >> rose: and former party chairman. >> former party chairman. after gingrich bolted the democrats sensed sweetness. they did something in the ultimate package that had not been part of the initial compromise which was to raise marginal income tax rates. the republican rebellion exacerbated the policy result and bush paid for it forever. i suspect, in many ways, the 1992 election was lost on that day when he said that. >> rose: lost to bill clinton in '92. >> with a big assist from ross perot. in many ways, the 20t 20th centuries ended eight

years early, the first baby boom president, clinton understood the new world we were living in, he understood cable tv, the intersections of celebrity and politics. >> rose: exactly. so there's a line between all of that and what's happening with trump and trump now. what i find moving about president bush, and it's not sentiment, is, on a couple of occasions in his life like all great politicians, he made significant compromises in the pursuit of power. opposed the '64 civil rights act in texas. runs a rough campaign against michael dumichael dukakis -- itd in fair play. it's almost impossible to imagine in the current climate a piece of far reaching domestic

legislation originating in the republican party, yet this was 25 years ago. >> rose: in 1992, the victory about bill clinton was the end of the 20th century. >> bush sat adone in the dark in suite 271, the houstonian hotel. mrs. bush was asleep. he couldn't sleep. he went into the living room, turns on his tape recorder, his diary, and says people say i'm out of touch. i never thought i am but obviously i'm out of touch because people just elect add draft dodger. it was for him the elemental question of service, military service, was a defining one. >> rose: back to the end of the 20th century, because i had this quote in front of me, bush nurtures the collapse of soviet union, kicks saddam out of kuwait, he loses.

ms. thatcher dumped by her party, ma roany loses in canada. japanese prime minister loses, australian prime minister loses. exhaling on part of the electorate when a shift in affairs and they look to another party. it was a sense of an order changing. >> exactly. >> rose: from the leaders who shaped the world before. >> and how fast it happens. look at the summer of 1945. winston churchill is given the order of the boot, as he put fit his memoirs, over six years of harrowing experience and a standoff against hitler, i was dismissed by the british people from any conduct of their affairs. >> rose: and his wife said it was a blessing in disguise and churchill said, it's one hell of a disguise. >> very well disguised, exactly.

this is important, this question, because i actually believe that george h.w. bush has more in common culturally and temperamentally really with the founding fathers than with the current crop of politicians, born into a certain place in society where public service was expected of you. this is not to make him st. george or put him in a powdered wig or anything like that, but one of the things i think we have to do in our business is, if you see virtues worth commemorating and emulating in the public square, you're not serving any end by cynically overlooking them. you should commemorate them and try to emulate them. >> rose: he has announced he's going to vote for hillary clinton or simply told somebody who told us? >> he has privately said that.

i think he'll do it. >> rose: going to vote for hillary clinton? because he believes donald trump -- >> too much a risk for the country. george bush's central question and what he wants to be judged on in his own legacy is would someone put the country first, and i believe that he would see in trump someone who's consuming narcissism would do dangers to the republic. >> rose: you've written other biographies before this. the interesting thing in all of them who had this quality. bush, often in politics, believed that tend justified the means -- believed the end justified the means. he played politics and chose the roughest of the rough. roger ailes his media advisor. lee atwater. there is a thing in your book, lee atwater proposed donald

trump as a possible running mate. >> atwater and trump had been having conversations. atwater went to vice president bush at that time and said trump was willing to be considered. in bush's diary he says, strange, unbelievable, and moves on from it. again, no st. george here. he knew how to fight. he knew how to win. >> rose: or he had somebody else do it for him. >> well, right. but it's all on him. >> rose: right. and -- >> in his name. in his name on the ballot and in the history books, and it's one of the tensions of his life, what's makes him fascinating is his mother said don't use first person pronoun. his name was have half bush because he would cut a candy bar in half and give it to the other kid but have half bush wanted

everything in public life and was running with the first recorded moment is in mrs. bush's diary which he generously let me read, she kept it 1948 forward -- >> rose: meant to be published after his death. >> yes, and i said, look, you're not going anywhere. the interesting thing about the bush project and this says a lot about how history is made is the condition was he would talk to me as much as we wanted, he would give me his presidential diary and he had no right of review. mrs. bush, a woman who had been an observer of politics for 60 years -- >> rose: and no reservation about expressing her opinion. >> exactly. it would have been biographical malpractice not to have gone and ask. >> rose: did she say of course

or let me think about it? >> there was some thinking. ( laughter ) > my favorite thing is when bush 43 found out i had his mother's diary, he said, what? >> rose: speaking overthat, what does he know of distance between us and the time of the iraqi war and his son's conduct thereof >> he supported the invasion >> rose: but did he support it simply because he thought my son has facts and sees information i no longer see so i believe he's trying to do the right thing? he supported him because that's the best thing he can get from me, or because he looked at all the facts and said, well, yes, he shouldn't have allowed the actions to continue which is the big issue >> remember, he'd been to this

movie before >> rose: one of his extraordinary achievements, that movie >> but one of the myths about the bushes is that george herbert walker bush was dean afterrerson who happened to be president and george w. bush was douglas mcarthur who happened to be president. when you claim back inside, what you find is that george h.w. bush was willing to be impeached by and willing to unilaterally exert force -- american military force to remove saddam where kuwait even in the face of an active negative from the congress. he made up his mind that this was the thing to do, and that sounds -- if i describe that to you but didn't show you which

one, you would say, that's w. it was the father. the father was more hawkish than the son and, ultimately, they had at least one conversation at camp david in late 2002. president bush 41 wrote a note saying you've made the right decision. it's impossible to say what would president george h.w. bush have done on the day after the attacks of september 11, but i will say this, the reflexive mythology is not true >> rose: exactly. what if we learned in the interim time about -- because especially maureen dowd was fixated on it >> she is the poet laureate >> rose: saying avenge father, son trying to outdo father -- >> it's wonderful to read.

all i can say is my search of the documents, my interviews suggest that no one from friends of ours who are quite aged and used to hold great power in foreign policy all the way to people who have explicitly criticized the second iraq war and used 41 as kind of a battering ram against 43, none of those people, none, were ever able to say to me, george h.w. bush told me this >> rose: you couldn't find one single person >> not one person, not one document. not one >> rose: to say his son made a mistake or shouldn't have done that? >> there is not a witness >> rose: not one not one. and i went to them all. he criticizes -- >> rose: colin powell, never

said it to anybody like that? >> no >> rose: and the interesting thing is his secretary of defense became vice president. dick cheney became the vice president of the united states and had influential -- and in a sense, shall we say not friend, donald rumsfeld became secretary of defense in his son's administration >> you know the old line the wing of the butterfly that creates the hurricane >> rose: the wing of the butterfly creates the hurricane, right >> if john tower had been confirmed in march of '89 >> rose: as secretary of defense >> -- dick cheney would have stayed in house leadership, newt gingrich wouldn't have gone into house leadership, and that rebellion might have quelled >> rose: and such history is made. and president of the united states barack obama is leaving office in january. one of the people he expressed real admiration for is the foreign policy and the temperament of george h.w. bush

>> and the domestic and the a.d.a. and he's very -- i interviewed him for it -- of course, because president obama speaks in camera-ready paragraph. i think one final note that tells you everything about the two men, 2012, 2013 when obama was particularly unpopular in texas, he's flying to houston for something, bush hears from the secret service, his agents, that the president's coming. he asks the agents to drive him out to the airport to greet airr force one. the obamas come down the steps, say hello. bush makes sure the houston chronicle is told that reason he wanted to do it is that when the president of the united states comes to your town, you pay your respects. that's george bush >> rose: the book is called

"destiny and power: the american odyssey of george herbert walker bush." back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: tommy hilfiger is here, opened his first clothing store, people's place, as a teenager in 1969. 15 years later he launched his namesake brand with a men's wear collection. now encompasses men's and women's sportsware, kidsware, footwear and fragrance. last year, earned over 6.5 billion in global retail sales. hilfiger's book chronicles his personal and professional life, called "american dreamer: my life in fashin and business." i'm pleased to have him at the table. welcome, sir >> thank you, charlie >> rose: it's a remarkable story. it's also about your relationship within your family. as gayle king my colleague on "cbs this morning" had a wonderful interview with you and talked about your relationship with your father, both a

challenge, inspiration and huge factor in your life. what was it like growing up? >> my dad had a high bar for all of us >> rose: and there were nine? nine children. but i was the first boy. so my father had dreams of me going to harvard, being a doctor, a lawyer, i mean, really, really succeeding educationally in whatever i did. i felt i would never be able to live up to his expectations, so i did what i could to prove to him that i could be successful. but i didn't realize i was dyslexic until later on in life. >> rose: how late? i was in my 20s >> rose: you didn't know why you couldn't read oike everybody else? >> exactly. so i had trouble in school. my brothers and sisters, who were not far from me agewise, were doing very well, or, you

at the top of the class and iy was at the bottom. so my father thought i was not really focusing, paying attention or caring, when, in reality, it's because i couldn't read. and i decided i had to do something. so my friends and i cobbled together some money, $150 each, and we opened a small shop in elmira, new york, when we were teens >> rose: and later went into bankruptcy >> that's right, and we were in our early 20s. and that was my m.b.a. >> rose: you learned what is this >> i learned how to focus on the business part of the business. being creative is a lot of fun and it uses a different part of your mind but to really balance the creative with the business acumen -- >> rose: and without the business, you don't have time for the creativity?

>> that's correct >> rose: and there is no place for it, because the business won't succeed? >> you need both >> rose: eve st. lauren had a business partner who took care of business >> that's right >> rose: and others had a parallel perp and you had to do both? >> i mad to do both. then i found a backer, mohan rajani who owned gloria vanderbilt jeans at the time, very successful in the '80s, but they started having difficulties. so i had to fund myself. then i met a couple of guys and had a partner. so we four created the tommy hilfiger corporation as it stands today, and we -- >> rose: you created the corporation, what did you have? >> we had a product, a name. i had a dream.

lawrence had experience in europe with ralph lauren. joe horowitz had experience running businesses >> rose: you had the brand i had the brand >> rose: how established was the wrapped at that time? >> known as a result of george lois' ad campaign within the fashion circles, but wasn't globally known or nationally known >> rose: but what made it brilliant? >> i really believe that surrounding myself with the right partners was the right idea because each one of the partners contributed something mainly >> rose: but what made the branding by george lois brilliant? >> uniqueness. breakthrough in disruption >> rose: you showed the colors we showed the colors but he compared my name to other big names in the industry and i was not known. ralph lauren, calvin klein, i was not known >> rose: by a wide margin.

that took a certain aw audacity because people were saying where is he coming from? these guys have lucrative businesses and he's just starting >> exactly. it was george lois' genius. >> rose: you had a brand before a reputation. >> yeah >> rose: and before you had a product of significance. >> that's right. >> rose: so you had to say, how do we make this product be as good as the brand. >> that's exactly right >> rose: but you had a combination of talents to do it. >> i had a great team. it's like having a band. we really worked together for many, many years building it. we took it public, did licensing deals, expanded globally. with we did all the things that were necessary in building a global lifestyle brand >> rose: so in building it, what were the most important things that helped you? >> product number one, market imaging advertising >> rose: what was the market

you were intending to penetrate? >> we wanted to sell everyone a premium product. >> rose: began in men'sware yes, went to women's children but we wanted to be a lifestyle brand. >> rose: were you copying ralph lauren at all? >> i times we could be accused of copying ralph lauren, but i didn't want to copy ralph lauren. i wanted to be younger, cooler, nor irreverent >> rose: more hip. exactly. ralph was very british, aristocratic. i wanted to be more looser, laid back, cooler, hipper, more relaxed. >> rose: then something happened, you got a photograph that made you the hippest. >> with snoop dogg >> rose: yeah. well, she was on "snl" wearing one of my logo jerseys, which is red, white and blue with the name, so all the street kids picked up on it.

>> rose: if he had it, it was good enough for them. >> it was the cool thing to do. >> rose: the same way with sneakers. >> yeah >> rose: they had to have your clothes. >> exactly >> rose: it was like light ago fire under the brand. >> absolutely correct >> rose: then the controversy because this nasty rumor started that you said i don't want black people to wear my clothes. >> which was a nasty rumor. >> rose: untrue. i never said it. >> rose: they said you said it on oprah, or they said somehow she was tied to the idea that you told her, correct or not? >> yes, they said i was on oprah and i said it, and she kicked me off the show. but i had never been on oprah at that point. >> rose: you were scheduled for the show -- >> no, i wasn't even scheduled at that point. a year or two went by, the rumor continued on the internet. she said, tommy, i know what kind of person you are, come on the show and let's dispel the

rumor, and she told the audience this is a big, fat lie. and it was. it was ridiculous. >> rose: and what happened? i think it subsided a little bit, but then i heard from jewish friends that in the synagogue people were saying he's anti-semitic, and then i found out from my latino friends that, oh, we hear you don't like hispanics, and then i heard from filipino people that i didn't like filipinos, and i heard from my gay friends that i didn't like gays, and all of a sudden this rumor got out of control. but in reality, it was all created from someone who might have been jealous, someone who wanted to ignite it. >> rose: you think it was a competitor, don't you? >> a lot of people think so. i don't know. >> rose: so what's the business today? >> the business is a global

fashion lifestyle brand. >> rose: owned by? p.b.h. >> rose: right. we took the company public in the '90s. we took it private in 2006 and sold it again in 2013 -- 2012 >> rose: and what did your father live to know? >> he saw us take the company public in the beginning. zoo rose: so he knew his son was a success. >> he was very proud >> rose: did he say so? yes. we made amends >> rose: he said, i'm glad you did it your way? you created something so it made me feel great, so all was -- >> all was good. >> rose: and you now give him credit because he infused in you the will to be something >> and be motivated. i think the motivation is really

important because lots of people can have dreams and ideas but if they're not motivated to really, really push the ball forward, they may turn around at the first obstacle >> rose: so you think part of the success and part of the lesson of "american dreamer" is having dreams but you have to be willing to pursue them >> 24-7 >> rose: execution execution >> rose: you're a good businessman >> i am a good businessman >> rose: and silas is he's an excellent one. > lawrence stroll is also a great businessman. joe horowitz is a great businessman. i really was fortunate enough to rround myself with incredible business genius us >> rose: do you and have you been able to somehow get a sense

of where the street is in terms of -- and not just the sort of urban street, but a sense of where millennials where, where social media is and all that. i mean, to look at you, you seem not someone who would be as savvy as your business success would suggest. >> okay, well, it's a very good point because, you know, a lot of businesses get stale. i never wanted the business to slow, stall or get stale. so i continually think of what is next, and i love technology. i love taking that next step. i love taking risks, and i love really, really pushing the business forward. so i think we're at the forefront of changing the

paradigm in the fashion business. i think tommy hilfiger the company, my incredible team and i are looking at really changing the rules in h the entire industry, and we recently proved that changing the rules could happen in a very positive way >> rose: what rules are you changing? >> years ago, charlie, they would have fashion shows, the designers would have shows in february showing the fall collections, and they would ship the clothes into the stores the following september. people would wait, people would go into the stores and buy the clothes they would have seen on the runway in february. we decided to put the clothes on the runway on not only beautiful models but social media stars and create what we called instant fashion, buy now, wear now. >> rose: gigi hadid

yes. her fans and our fans could watch the show, open to the public, click and buy immediately so they could wear it that night. immediate gratification is what the millennials want and they also want experiences. so they don't want to do it the traditional way. i wanted to be a disruptor. i wanted to change that whole paradigm. >> rose: what's happening -- because i read something and i have it here -- it is this notion -- and now this is -- challenges abound, many premium american brands have experienced stalled growth in the last decade. go to any t. j. max and ralph lauren and you will find tommy hilfiger hitters piled up in closeout bins and goes on and on -- >> mm-hmm >> rose: what this is saying seems to be true and i had to change my business model and means of reaching my consumers.

>> you hit it on the nose. i saw that happening and said we have to change. we cannot be in this sea of mediocrity. i said, how do we do it? we needed to invest. so the chairman of p.d.h. said, okay, guys, go for it, do what you have to do. so daniel greeter, our global c.e.o. and avery baker our chief branding officer said, okay, look, we do have to do something out of the box. why don't we do what we have been talking about? why don't we do this open to the public, buy now, wear now, fashion ex trav extravaganza. it takes a lot of investment and thought, changing the calendar of manufacturing, getting everyone in the company to change their ways, so we really turned it around very quickly.

took us about a year >> rose: so how long do you want to do this? >> look, every day -- >> rose: you have seven kids? seven. five of my own and two step kids. >> rose: right i love my life. i love waking up in the morning and doing what i do because every day is different, every day is exciting, we're always thinking of something new. we're taking the show on the road. we're opening stores all over the world. we're opening a store of the future >> rose: still a need for brick and mortar >> but new. we're opening the store of the future in london this spring >> rose: how is the store of the future different? >> it's not going to be racks and shelving full of clothes >> rose: it's going to be what? >> you will see, but i'll give you a hint >> rose: all right you walk in and you see enormous screens >> rose: right and you can either click and buy with your device or you can walk up to the screen, touch the screen, see yourself -- >> rose: why would i do it at the store when i could do it at

home? >> it's an experience >> rose: my life in fashion and business, written with peter nobler >> thank you, charlie >> rose: thank you for coming thank you for inviting me >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

♪ this is "nightly business report," with tyler mathisen and sue herera. november nerves. a tightening presidential race and a bed meeting put investors on edge today, as a month gets off to a rocky start. high gear. the auto industry remains on track for near-record sales this year. and open enrollment. why one health insurance startup sees opportunities, not obstacles in the obamacare exchanges. those stories and more tonight on "nightly business report" for tuesday, november 1st. good evening, everyone. and welcome. i'm tyler mathisen. sue herera is off tonight. well, maybe it's the election, and that tightening presidential race. or maybe it's this week's fed meeting, and the prospect of higher ies