. >> rose: welcome to the program, we begin this evening with larry kudlow, he has written a new book called jfk and the reagan revolution. he's also an occasional advisor to the trump campaign. >> i want new bloods, charlie. want to see new blood. remember, reagan was new blood. reagan brought young guys like me into the government for the first time. we had no experience at washington d.c. and a lot was changed. now these things atrophy over time, i understand that. i think trump has the capability to bring change, and the capability to be a very strong leader in america's interests. >> rose: we conclude this evening with a conversation about a new netflix series called the crown, it's about the life of queen elizabeth 2. we talk to the writer and creator peter more began, the director stephen daldry, claire foy who plays queen elizabeth

the 2nd. and matt smith who plays prince philip and john lit-- lithgow who plays winston churchill. >> i think she says that she has grown into the role, she never had an apprenticeship or anyone to guide her aside from churn il, really. >> even though he didn't have a close relationship with elizabeth before, his audience is with her, which is why the scenes are so charged and wonderful. he's enormously protective, kind of, avu nku lar. he regards himself as her mentor. >> that is what makings is too interesting, is the conflict, particularly for philip, from d in the relationship. homecant and then his, i don't know, his sort of love for her and his desire, i think, to sort of be man of the house. >> rose: a look at the economic debate in the campaign

and a new netflix series about queen elizabeth 2-7bd when we continue. >> funding for charl c.e.o. rose is provided by the >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> larry kudlow is here, is he cnbc's senior contributor and an informal advisor to the donald trump campaign. from 2009 to 2014, he hosted cnbc's prime time show the kudlow report. he has recently written a new book. it it is called jfk and the reagan revolution, a secret history of american prosperity.

i am pleased to welcome larry kudlow back to this table. welcome, sir. >> thank you. >> greet to see you doing so well. >> thank you, sir. >> i'll talk about the book in a moment. so where do you see the campaign today? >> well, i think it's pretty close right now. >> republicans seem to be coming home so to speak. >> seems to be. i think two weeks ago it looked like hillary was going to run the table. >> it did. >> and then of course the fbi stuff comes in, and abedin and her husband and of course. and the whole investigation may be redone. have never seen anything quite lake this. at this point my best guess and you know, you need other pollsters to do this, but the national race looks very, very, very close. the question is on the battleground states. i think hillary has an advantage right now in the battleground states but that may be ephemeral as this week goes on. and trump is trying to widen, broaden his wings, we'll see. >> rose: there is a notion and

whether it has any impact at all, that there is, an i think this has been measured, more enthusiasm, how we quantity fie this, or what the metric is, i don't know, for the trump campaign. we seem to have caught a wind. >> he has got mo. >> rose: as george bush would say, bush 41. >> i think it's mo for two reasons. one is the the whole fbi explosion and so forth and so on. >> rose: but it doesn't seem to necessarily change minds. >> well, i don't know that. i mean-- . >> rose: i don't either. >> but the polling, i see some of the overnights from the campaign and seems like as you said, republicans are coming home, independents are crossing over. and i don't know-- . >> rose: trending to trump. >> that's right. these are good pollsters doing private stuff, all of whom were friends of mine.

so i take a look at it. he was narrowing before. he has gotten on message, the last eight or nine or ten days. i mean drain the swamp of corruption. he's talking about getting rid of obamacare which is very unpopular as you know. he's talking about economic growth and tax cuts. and he's talking about judges. so he's laying out his case in a much better fashion, much more con sighsly. he's using a tel prompter for discipline services. look, i'm from the old school, charlie. i still believe issues matter. and i think politicians who can get a good message out are going to be in pretty good shape. on the other side, what you've got because of the fbi explosion, their campaign is blaming comey who is not on the ballot. their campaign is blaming putin

who is not on the ballot. i heard my friend james carville, a very smart guy who is blaming the kgb who is not on the ballot. i see yesterday they hauled out they are really scrambling around for this. and i don't know what they're going to do in the next week. i just think mr. trump should stay on his message. growth, health care, you need an outside tore shake up washington d.c. those are important points. >> rose: do you believe in the message or the candidate? >> well, look, i like the message am i don't always agree with mr. trump. >> what don't you agree with. >> i agree-- i had a hand in writing his tax cut plan as you may know. >> in the economic speech they gave in detroit. >> in detroit and later new york. steve moore and i, and some others worked on that. i think it's very good tax cut plan, if i do say so myself. >> but other matters, look, mr. trump has said things that i cannot abide by. i have said so, out loud. i said personally. >> rose: which have offended

you the most? >> oh. >> rose: the muslim ban? >> yeah, i wasn't crazy about the muslim ban. >> rose: what he said about women. >> i thought the women stuff was not good. >> i thought this billy bush tape business was you know, a long time ago but not good. and i said so at the time. look, i have my own credibility and my own judgements in life. i agree with him on many issues, not so much on trade. i mean we have to enforce trade deals. >> rose: i. >> rose: i wouldn't think you would agree with him on trade. >> i'm a free trader, you're right, thank you for remembering. in my opinion he goes too far. and i don't want to go into the weeds. but we do feed better deals and better enforcement of deals but trade is a good thing on the whole. >> rose: did you soft nafta. >> i did, indeed. >> rose: and is he very much against that. >> he is very much against it.

i think there are glitches in nafta. >> rose: do you support pptpp. >> do i support tpp? >> rose: you do? >> i will if the fine print is changed. and i will tell you what i mean by that. there are too many international boards of decision making that i don't like. and i think trump has a point here that when we make these deals, we've got to keep the american economy and workforce first and fore moses. >> rose: republicans and democrats have made these deals. >> that's correct. >> rose: free trade has been a cornerstone of republican philosophy. >> used to be a cornerstone. >> rose: indeed it was. >> look, i support it. >> rose: bill clinton. >> right, when al gore and bill clinton-- . >> rose. >> tpp is flawed but can be fixed, okay. look, reagan, my former boss started it with the canadian free trade deal. and i supported it then. there are issues. you have change. some people are hurt. i get that. >> rose: do you think he

opposes trade or just sees it as a political. >> i think he message. >> i think he worries about american workers. that's what i think he does. i think he has at the beginning and st a very good thing and i agree with him on that. on the other hand, i don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water on trade. so that's a bit of an issue. i don't think trade deficits destroy our economy because we have a deficit but if you-- if i buy from you, whatever it is you are selling, a t-shirt or sneakers, okay, that creates-- you have my money. what are you going to do with that money? you're going to recycle that money. probably back into the u.s. economy. >> rose: well. >> so capital inflows are very big part of trade. and i don't think the trump campaign has really understood that.

>> rose: you have a classic understanding of the relationship between china and the united states is that china at to buy-- they took our debted and then they-- we used the money to buy their products. >> well, okay. we used-- we bought their products. >> rose: right. >> okay. >> that's been around by the way for 20 years plus, not just a recent development. >> rose: i know, but that has been the classic notion. >> and then they took the money. and in large measure, purchased our government bonds. >> rose: right. >> not the worst in the world. >> rose: we took the cash and bought their products. >> and they're investing in the united states. i don't happen to be a big fan of china right now. i want to make that very clear. >> what's your problem with china-- china. >> i think they break agreements. i think they're hostile. i think they often frankly steal our property rights. i think they lie, cheat and steal on a lot of areas. i think they're hacking us. i think they have military ambitions. i'm not their biggest fan. i just don't want to end trade. >> rose: but it is the largest

economic power in the world. >> they are, in a sense, yes, their gdp. not per capita, by the way. but look we have-- . >> rose: they have the largest macro economy in the world. >> they have the largest gdp but on a per capita basis it is way lower than that. >> rose: because of their population. >> and we have technological advantages over china, we have military changes -- advantages over china. i don't think we want to end trade over china but we do wish to may renegotiate deals with china. i think trump has a very good point there. >> rose: how well do you foa donald trump? >> i'm not as intimate as donald trump. have i known him for 20 some odd years. >> rose: have you had serious and long conversations with him. >> have i had great interviews with him on tv and on radio and recently this year we spent some time in his office. >> rose: and you advised him on economics. >> yes. again i'm not an intimate. >> rose: the reason i ask the question, do you have a prox imity that allows to you make a judgement about him.

>> yes, yes. and i am-- i am saying beyond the message, what is it about him that appeals to you as a potential commander in chief and president of the united states. >> i think he has great potential to be a strong leader. and i don't think we've seen that in recent years is. now do i know the future? i do not. i think it's a good time for an outsider, charlie. i think he makes good points. he may make them in ways that i wouldn't make them, but i'm not him. i think he makes good points about fresh, new breezes in washington, about breaking some eggs in washington, about overturning the establishment in washington d.c. i think those are strong points. i think that was the new clee us of this campaign and i hope he finishes on that point as he has been. i want new blood, charlie. i want to see new blood.

remember, reagan was new blood. reagan brought young guys like me into the government for the first time. we had no experience in washington d.c. and a lot was changed. now these thing as trophy over time, i understand that. i think trump has the capability to bring change, and the capability to be a very strong leader in america's interests. >> rose: brings me to the book. jfk and the reagan revolution, a secret history of american prosperity because the economic idea that you are arguing for here, and you talk about in this book, are assumed part of the arguments he's making, with how he wants to cut corporate income tax. >> that's correct. >> rose: how his economic and tax proposal differ from hillary clintons. what does he believe about entitlements? what does he believe about the national government support supporting science, supporting

space exploration, supporting all the things that have enabled america to be the country it is. >> you're talking about a guy who was an entrepreneur. and he understands change. he also understands growth. i mean as part of this book with kennedy and reagan, growth solves a lot of problems, charlie. it may not solve every problem but if are you looking for resources, the kinds of things you are discussing, we need growth. >> that is the essential question about the american economy, we need growth. >> we can't grow at 2%. we need to grow at four or five percent. >> rose: when was the last time we grew at four or five percent. >> the '80s and '90s, and the '60s. and it is not a coins dense, as i point out, jfk was the first supply side tax cutter. lower, marginal rates. you and i talked about this for many years, okay. >> rose: he believed if you cut taxes, revenues came in. >> that's correct. he wanted fult employment and growth. and he got it he got it.

now the model went awry in 1970s. we started raising taxes, destroying its dollar, reinflating. reagan came back, partially sold by jack kemp, my friend the late jack kemp, and mentor. why don't we just go back to the jfk tax rate reductions. it worked. and kemp brought it to reagan. and reagan bought into it. he wasn't a natural tax cutter. >> we had the kemp roth bill and reagan became a believer in the incentive model. if you keep more of what you earn, work, invest, risk, you're likely to go back to it because of the rewards and incentives are strong. >> rose: i think reagan became convinced of that even earlier. he realized that he was making a fair amount of money in hollywood and was paying a tax rate of 70 plus-- 19 percent plus. >> 91%. >> rose: he realized, so there was no incentive to work because most of it was going to taxes. >> and he, when he left and he went in with general electric

and so forth, they had ways and means to avoid all of those high taxes. and that was one of the problems. you know, it's very interesting in this, it was his republican treasury secretary, dowl dylan, the old banking house in incomer, that convinced kennedy that we should not only lower the tax rates which were outrageous, but we need to get rid of the loopholes that the well to do could take to avoid paying the taxes. salary workers could not avoid them. oid them.ess startups could not but if you simplify and lower the rates, then you would have a good package. my point in this book is a simple point-- . >> rose: hasn't that been a democratic argument as well? >> rose: think about it. >> not recently. >> rose: simp son bowles. >> yes, yes. >> rose: that was the essential, fundamental foundation of what they were arguing. >> i will go back to-- . >> rose: raise taxes but eliminate the loopholes. >> cut tax rates.

>> rose: cut tax rates. >> i will go back earlier. 1986 was the quintessential reform bill. reagan. >> rose: reagan. >> bill bradley. >> rose: bill bradley. >> gep hart, many others. it was a bipartisan bill. lower the rates, get rid of the loopholes. very important. he emulated kennedy. and it worked. >> rose: but obviously didn't get rid av lot of loopholes because donald trump takes great pride in that he used the loopholes. and pays no taxes. >> we took about, we, working on this thing, i was one of the budget deputies in those days. we took about 10,000 pages out of the federal register. we really did take a lot of loopholes out. unfortunately, they gradually made their way back in. >> rose: unfortunately i think the lobby in washington. >> you think? >> rose: who camped out at the house ways & means committee. >> well, you got yourself a pretty good reformer now in the ways and means, kevin brady and you have paul ryan. there is a movement to get back to this. the point we make-- .

>> rose: paul ryan didn't support simp son bowles am. >> well, he had thoos with simp son bowles but certainly-- look, ryan is a kemp reagan guy. we all come from the same part. all i'm saying in this book is the untold history, it was jfk who was the first. you know, everybody knows, most people know reagan was a big tax cutter. you know that. but what you didn't know is jfk started it. >> rose: no, i did know that. >> and there is a whole story of how that developed. >> rose: what is the story. >> well, not only was it sold to him by-- . >> rose: if i read this book i would find it. >> you will like the book when you read it it is an easy read, an easy read. >> rose: go ahead. >> the point of-- he had republicans in his senior cabinets. >> rose: douglas dylan. >> by the way, remember mcnam ara who was a moderate republican in those days, c.e.o. of the ford motor company, george bundy, national security, was republican. so that is the point we have

kind of lost, have we not? we don't do that any more. second point. >> rose: republicans from academia. >> well, science, two businessmen and one from academia. that's pretty good. there is no reason why we couldn't do that again, by the way. second point, kennedy took a risk. he said if i don't get five percent groart, i'm not going to be re-elected in 1964. he started out, he had distinguished liberal academic economic advisors, paul samuelson, walter heller, to bein and so forth. they said in '61, let's spend more. let's do infrastructure. it didn't work. and kennedy's coming to the end of '61 and he's being criticized. and some people are thinking there's going to be another recession. there were three recessions in the eisenhower years. so he took a risk. he was studied. he did it and then he gave his

ory out, lower rates, betterk growth, full employment, higher revenues. >> rose: what do you think of secretary you lar stagnation. >> i think it's a fraud. i think it's a total fraud! >> rose: did you tell larry? >> summers. >> larry summers is a friend of mine. have i a lot of respect for rose: basically arguing. there is a kind of built in. >> no, the american economy has grown since world war two by three and a half percent per year, okay. and in fact for the entire 20th century, honestly, i did the work on this, including the depression, charlie, the american economy grew at three and a half percent a year. >> rose: let me see. >> so don't tell me there's this cat gor kal imperative that we have to grow at-- . >> rose: we don't have any monetary policy to go to much any more reasons fair enough t needs reform but fair enough. >> rose: reform the fed or

what. >> reform the fed, their targets. we have a strong dollar, that's what i ask for in monetary policy. let's have a stable, strong dollar. >> rose: do we have a strong dollar. >> we haven't in 20 years. it's been up, down, up, down. >> rose: how is it today? >> today it's good, it's okay. >> rose: okay. and the obama administration. >> yes, yes. >> rose: do we have a strong dollar, that's not much left to go in terms of where you can stimulate economic growth from. >> the argument of many,. >> rose: from monetary policy. >> the argument of many is you have to go to fiscal policy. >> rose: which is where are you. >> yes. >> rose: then that is where the differences come, how do you stimulate growth. your argument is you have to reduce taxes. >> reduce tax rates. >> what else. >> roll back regulations, okay, rose: meaning thereforefs off what, in other words, anything that you do with respect to energy, in the interest of

addressing global warming is bad sph. >> no, we can do clean fuels. we can do clean fossil fuels. >> and emission standards are okay, a tax on carbon is okay with you? >> we have to talk about that. >> maybe. >> depends where it it it goes. but the point is we have had this technological revolution in energy, fracking. and predominantly it's natural gas which is clean, okay. and that is where we should go. >> rose: it's made us energy independent. >> it has. and unfortunately mrs. clinton wants to do away with it, federal, state and localme we regulations there wouldn't be any fracking. i think that is crazy. i just think she's on the wrong track there, so i would also go after health care. i think the obama care system which will play out as single payer government run, is if mrs. clinton wins is wrong. it's failed, the premiums are going up. the services are going down.

the young people don't want the pan dates. the numbers don't work. there is a financial death spiral going on. it's going to require massive bailout. this whole thing has to be put in the context of more choice, fewer regulations, lower taxes. i mean it's really a big prosperity. >> right out of the reagan playbook. >> that's right, surprise, surprise. i'm not breaking news here, charlie, as you may guess. all i'm saying is reagan used kennedy. i want to make one more point, an important point in the book, particularly today, charlie. what we need here to accomplish these goals, we are going to need bipartisanship, i believe that. i'm not afraid to make a deal. reagan made deals, kennedy made deals. i'm not afraid to make deals. >> rose: hill c.e.o.-- hillary clinton said she. >> her party has turned, has moved to the left and she's acknowledged that and the president has acknowledged that. >> but the great examples here, john f kennedy and ronald reagan

were civil people. they did not insult. they did not call you 2345eu78s. when they made arguments, they tried to persuade. and they reached across the aisle to get the job done. in fact, kennedy had to fight democrats and republicans, reagan had to fight democrats. >> rose: yeah, but ronald reagan sat down with tip o'neill and all of that, we know that. >> wait a minute, that's true but o'neill was opposed to the reagan tax cuts. reagan by dented per situation and civility and respect got about 75 democratic votes in 1981, charlie to pass his bill against the wishes of speaker o'neill. and then by the time he gets to 86 it was nearly unanimous. so i'm calling for some civility in the national discussion. >> rose: so where do you think you should go to make that call for civility? >> everywhere. i talk about this everywhere. i mean-- . >> rose: i am the greatest

believer in this as you know. >> if i disagree with you i am not going to call you names. i'm going to try to persuade you based on facts and hisry. >> rose: based on facts and history, who has been the most, who has been mounted the strongest-- onslawt against civility in this campaign, based on facts an history. >> they have both done a terrible job, charlie. i know you want me to say trump. >> rose: no, i want to you say what you believe. >> what i believe is they have been bashing each other from day one. >> rose: so they are equally guilty. >> in different spots, perhaps. and again, as i have said, mr. trump has said things can i not abide by. mrs. clinton said things that can't an bieded by. i mean i don't want to have to pick and choose there. the discourse of this national election has been awful. and i think that it's really a trend. and i don't know how to stop this trend but i don't like this trend. i don't think it it benefits this country at all. i think we need new leaders who understand, look, i did the

kudlow report for years every night on cnbc. i had my friends from the democratic party, okay, left of centre friends. but we conducted, many of whom went into the obama administration, i might add. we conducted discussions. and they didn't instult-- insult me, we tried to use facts and arguments. >> rose: everybody in america agrees with what you are saying now. >> with respect, but we're not seeing it at the national level, that's my problem. >> rose: there is a story today about the freedom caucus. >> yes. >> rose: john bain wear have made, he said this to me in an interview in the last month. would have been able to have made a deal without the strength put on him by his own caucus. >> you know that's true. ry good politician.friend of but remember, also. >> rose: and paul-- ryan will have the same challenge. >> but in 2011, he and obama were very close to it a deal and

the president-- . >> rose: the grand coalition. >> the president changed the revenue numbers at the last minute. >> rose: that is exactly what john boehner said. >> and boehner would have had trouble enough selling it to his kaw discuss. >> rose: john bain are does say that. >> a handshake should be a handshake, that is a business missing from american politics today. so what is the solution? the solution is for people of good will who want to help the country, just be civil and respectful. and understand that you're not going to get 100 percent of what you want. this was reagan's argue years and years ago. he used to say give me half a loaf now, i'll get the half a loaf later. he used to sometimes say if you and i agree, 70 or 80% of the time and we disagree 20 or 30% of the time, we are friends, not enemies. >> rose: are you saying jfk and reagan had the same instincts. >> i think so. that is what our historical research, we have quotes, go back into the discussions. i think they are two pretty

remarkable poll titionzs and i think they did a lot of good for this country. >> they believed in bipartisanship. >> they did. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me, as always. >> rose: lawrence kudlow, jfk and the reagan rev leutionz, a secret history of american prosperity, larry kudlow believes that we can get back to growth rates of four to five percent. everybody would love that. >> i'm an optimist, charlie. you know that. >> rose: back in a moment, stay with us. the new netflix original series the crown tells the inside story of two of the world's most famous addresses. buckingham palace and ten downing street. the series will begin with princess elizabeth's wedding in 1947 and carry through to the present day. with a reported budget of over $100 million, the series is netflix's most expensive slow to date. here is the trailer for the crown. >> it would help if we could decide here and now on your

name. >> my name. >> yes, ma'am, your regular name and that is the name will you take as queen. >> let's not complicate matters unnecessary. my name is elizabeth. >> and long live queen elizabeth. >> do you get sick of it all, and lonely? >> i do. that's why it is so porn to have the right person. >> you understand the tight. >> nothing is protected. he is the esence of. >> we have a new sovereign, young and a woman. >> no, sir, if you don't mind,

the crown takes press dense. >> you done think i would have preferred to grow up out of the spotlight? away from the scrutiny and advice ability? >> i know remember who you are, the queen of england. >> this new elizabethan age comes at a time when man kind stands on the edge of catastrophe. >> you are you my wife or my queen. >> i am both and a strong man would be able to kneel those. >> i will not kneel before my wife. >> your wife is not asking. >> your queen commands me. i beg to you make an exception for me. >> no. >> what kind of marriage is this? what kind of family. >> i need to speak to my sister. now! >> i am aware that i am surrounded by people who feel that they could do the job better. strong people, with powerful

characters. but for better or worse, the crown has landed on my head. >> i have seen three great monday arckees brought down through their failure to separate personal indulgences from duty. we you must not allow yourself to make similar mistakes. the crown must win. must always win. >> well done. joining us the creator and writer petter morgan, director tef endaldry and thee stars matt smith who plays prince philip, clar foy who plays queen liz bets 2 and john lithgow who plays winston churchill. i'm pleetioned to have all of them at this table. this looks fun and interesting. how did it come about? >> well,. >> rose: we know the history

it's drawn from. >> in my own life i wrote a film for british television about the relationship between tony blair and gordon brown and the producers, enjoyed it and said can you do one about the queen. and i tried writing the queen, and it was deathly dul t was awful. and then i added tony blair to it and something in the alchemy or chemistry of prime minister and queen, you know, of elected, as it were, constitutional head of state, that just became something that worked for me, or i could find myself into. and that then became the audience, well, it became the queen the movie, and the audience the play. and then i was so captivated writing the scenes between churchill and the young queen that i thought well, there's more to this. >> rose: every prime minister talks to the queen. >> they do. it is a con fetion-- confessional. >> right. >> rose: we saw that on broadway.

>> yeah, if you did see t thank you very much. >> so then you have got to have the best director you can find. >> that is debatable. >>z. >> rose: stephen said here he me. >> he was begging, on his knees. we've known each other because the community in london is smaller than the community here. and we all know one another. and stephen and i had been looking for years to find something. and so we did that. and then it has just grown out of that. >> rose: then the challenge is casting out yet. >> yes, it is. it was always going to be a tasesk am-- task. and we were pretty thorough. i thought we went through for-- i think we went through just about most of claire's contemporaries, if i'm being honest about it. >> there were meetings where i looked at the lists of the people that we were going to meet that day, and be like she's interesting, she's interesting. don't know her. and i think we had been through

about four or five levelses until-- of casting until i sat and listened to claire and i said but she's wonderful. >> what was it that made her wonderful, though. >> give me one. >> was it. >> claire, i think, i hate, i mean pardon me-- claire is the leading actress of her generation t is true to say. i think she does an astonishing. >> we didn't know that. >> rose: did you not know that. >> no, but. >> because there were all these other people that have had breaks in this movie, that movie, this movie, that movie. and technically, and just her suit ability for the role just shown immediately. and in answer to your question, i think it is something about being, which is not easy, about being both effortlessly beautiful, and then also quite, sometimes a blank canvas to be both modest and yet have a lot going on behind the highs-- eyes. >> rose: she could do "no"

very well. >> that was the only thing that worked. >> rose: and you've got to have prince philip, don't you. >> we do. and matt walked in the door and it was straight away. >> yeah. >> it was instant. >> rose: again because of-- a presence or because of chem. >> chem stree. the minute the two of them were together. >> what are you doing defacing this. it was-- it was an act of chemistry, not a sort of-- . >> rose: an act of chemistry, before they read or after they read. >> the minute they were in the room. i made the producers life difficult because matt is a fearsome negotiator or his agents are, and they were holding us ransom. and-- i said, i did say to the people, i said it is this or nobody there is nobody else. >> rose: then you have to go across the pond to find winston

churchill. >> which was the casting director's idea. and-- we did it on the queen, she chose james kromwell which was a really unexpected choice for prince philip and i think bringing someone in, it brings such a fresh perspective. and the minute john started reading, it was just this shall-- john was reading and he had his face in the text and there were about ayre hundred other people in the room who went like this, it was just fantastic. >> it it was amazing. >> rose: do you know what it was, what was your access into churchill? >> well, i thought i knew a good deal about churchill. i had played fdr once with bob hoskins as churchill, and done a lot of historical reading. but when it came time to play the part, i plunged deep into research, read about him, and found out how little i had known.

mainly about the whole sweep of his life. i was so fascinated by his very young years. his childhood teen years, his 20s, his 30see and they completely informed him as an old man. i clay the part between the ages of about 73 and 80. but i sort of found him in his childhood. and of course did an enormous amount of-- look digging around for audio and video and listening to that extraordinary voice. >> did you find the voice hard, john. >> well, i had a great cocon spir tor in a man named william connicker, a great dialect coach who helped me but i'm happy to say he spent just as much time with the english actors. >> very different language. >> it was an entirely different register, if you are a dialect, evolutionist and such people exist, then you chart the

difference in the vowell pronones yaition. it's absolutely breathe taking between the queen as a young woman and prince harry now, how far the english language has shiftedded. and you realize that we should go back to shakespeare's time. the reason so many of those didn't rhyme for us is because they were being pronounced in an entirely different way and an upper-class person in shakespeare era spoke like that, you know, extraordinary how it has changed, even in six years. >> and as for churchill, he had all of these extraordinary idiosyncracyies. and a very, very nasal voice, so i jammed cotton up my nose. and the problem is for an american, every englishman imitates winston churchill so you feel like you have a lot of competition. but at a certain point you just put all of that aside.

>> >> rose: are you trying to capture something, what is it. >> you are putting, well, first of all you are trying to catch a historical circumstances in a situation, a dramatic situation am and we do a huge amount of research. talking about making sure that we know exactly what actually happened so we can, if we're going change some authenticity we know why. >> rose: so the dialogue is not unreasonable. >> well-- i have got to keep you all awake. >> rose: they never said any of this. >> . >> again, going back to voices, had we done the actual dialect that they spoke of, in no way are you speaking in that very extreme dialect. >> that public voice, that is the interesting thing. there isn't that much, i fever got ahold of anything which is privately at that age and period of time it doesn't really exist.

>> rose: do you see today the woman that we know as the queen in terms of what you looked at in those early years when she is assuming the queenship? >> do you see the qualities that she has today present there and what you know about her early life? >> yeah, i mean it's tricky because i was sort of desperate to, in a way. but i don't know, i think she says herself she has grown in to the role. and that she never had an apprenticeship, never had anyone to guide her apart from churchill, really. and so she was sort of in-- . >> (laughter) >> well, you sort of-- i mean i-- yeah, but yeah, i don't-- but there was doing it together, that-- i think trying to find t and that is why the

story is so interesting is these two people trying to faf gate how to behave with each other and in a wider-- world. i think she's always been quite resilient, i think. but i think she's learned how to do the job and do it very well over time. her as a person, i've got absolutely no idea because she doesn't-- . >> rose: you didn't call her up and say-- well, stop by by for a chat, maybe you can give a few pointer. >> she always knew she was going to be queen. she knew at some point her father had died. >> rose: no male heirs, and he died so much sooner, so much quicker, and although it is the story of our first couple of episodes, the story of his progressive illness, he still died age 56 which is at least a decade if not 15 or 20. i think the young couple which was what excited me about

telling the story, they reasonably could have expected at least another ten if not another 20. >> to get ready and understand. >> no, to have a normal life. and they were in more tarr-- the entire mediterranean fleet was based. they were enjoying the life of, sort of an ambitious young naval officer who was going through the ranks. and she was going te repeated. i doubt it. >> and she is at the highest level of upon larrity-- popularity. >> she is. people keep saying that she is unelected. and of course that is true. if there was a strong ground swell of objectional protest one i would feel it. if there were an election

tomorrow she would win with a north korean landslide. there is that much, you know there is that much support. >> north korean landslide. >> the minds bog els. >> that has always been the-- has not always been the case. the fillk-- shall film, the queen, explored one of the lowest ebbs of her popularity. >> the '90s were a terrible time for her family and the history, i have to say, since dinah's death, she has reached broth both an age where she is so-- it's so stable now her popularity. and there came a poant where people suddenly thought it would be undignified to be too critical. i think there will be, and it will be healthy for there to be, a renewed critical look at the monday arcky-- . >> rose: probably after she dies. >> without a doubt. >> rose: how did churchill feel about her? did he feel pattern, did he feel mainly a sense of responsibility because he was the prime

minister or he was going to be the prime minister, but he was a part of the political world. >> i think he felt an overwhelming sense of responsibility. and as in many areas, he thought he was the only one who could do the job. >> rose: and that he knew best. >> he was the only victor yab left in the whole upper stratup of british parliament aree politics. and as such, you know, this was post war britain where britain had technically won but the country was absolutely devastated. and the monday arckee was on the bubble for george 6th to die so suddenly, to churchill it was desperately important that the monday arcky be saved. >> it was also an opportunity for him. >> he himself is superanu ated. he becomes prime minister way too old at age 75. and his primary job is to make sure the transition goes well. so even though he didn't have a close relationship with

elizabeth before, his audiences with her which is why the scenes are so charged and wonderful, he is enormously protective, kind of a vung you lar, he regards himself as her mentor and in the course of our ten episodes, that job becomes irrelevant. she becomes a strong monday arc. >> i always remember the dwoat when he lost, he said, clem entien, the wife said it must be a blessing in disguise and churchill said it is a hell of a disguise. >> so this championship is key. the relationship between the two of them, prirns philip and the-- how do you define t other than you have somebody who, his wife, he is the subject. >> well, yes, one of the definitions. it's quite temp pestious.

>> tempest yus. >> yes but it's also charged with a very profound sense of love and loyalty and respect. i think they are actually soul mates. you look at them now. but i think the trauma of the father's death and her sort of ascension to the crown would put pressure on any young people. that's what makes it so interesting is i think the the conflict, particularly for philip from his perspective, is the conflict of being sort of hemascu lateed in his relationship in the home and his sort of love for her and his desire, i think, to sort of be man of the house. and not being-- . >> rose: father to charles. >> yes, well, yeah. >> wait for season two. >> yeah. >> we are, the three of us are just representing this huge cast of fantastic actors.

and one of the really fine performances is jared harris as george 6th. and there is an extraordinary sense in philip when he senses that george 6th may dievment this may completely rob him of his own identity as a young man. >> rose: that his wife will be queen. >> and this performance is really something. >> rose: you are talking about matt or. >> at the moments it's matt. >> so tell me what was it you saw him in that you thought, other than the dilemma. >> in philip. >> oh god, so much there is a sorted of wonderful sense of rebellion about him. there is a great ranging, there is a sort of wonderful ranging to him physically that i love. is he terribly witty, terriblably funny, intel genlt-- intelligent and the sort of 58 yen. >> rose: terribly intelligent. >> yeah, i think so.

>> i think a lot of people just have grown up thinking sheer this guy that follows in the footsteps. >> they know nothing about him, he makes headlines by putting his foot in it. something inappropriate, makes all the headlines. and it was really, i read a wonderful book about him as a young man written by philip es. every page that you read, you sort of have to go and lie down. it is a process, the enormity of what his family went through, what he went through and cuz you know, he lost his grandfather, mothers, mental problems, and struggles. and his sisters. anyway, his own childhood was so difficult and full of challenges. and then, and yet he came out of this sort of rather complex, necessarily, with that sort of an upbringing individual. and into our most, as it were, conservative or traditional family. and here is somebody that nobody knows anything about. and one of the privileges of fighting and creating a show is

to be able to, for me to find out and to put flesh on these bones. >> rose: was there a moment in which he sort of got it being queen? in other words, she tried on the clown, obviously and we saw that in the trailer. did it take her several years in a sense to feel really comfortable with the authority she had at such a young age? >> god, i think-- i don't know whether-- i definitely don't think we've got to that point in the series. i don't think. >> the click moment was she suddenly pretty good at it. i think there were several moments in the show where she finds her feet, finds her feet and then in tandem with churchill, resignation and his aging. i think churchill feels he can resign, firstly because he needs to, because he's so unwell. it was scandalous with the stroke. but also his job is done. he feels his job is done, not only in public life but also, you know, as a mentor, as a guardian and guide to the queen.

>> rose: this say clip of queen elizabeth meeting and being lectured by winston churchill. here it is. >> do sit down. prime minister. i have ordered tea. or something stronger, perhaps. >> oh dear. did no one explain. i never-- a sovereign never offers a prime minister refreshments, nor a chair. the precedent set by your great great grandmother was to keep us standing like-- to waste time is a grievous sin. there is one thing i have learned in 52 years of public service it is that there is no problem so complex, nor crisis so grave that it cannot be satis fact orally resolved within 20 minutes. so shall we make a start? >> rose: well done, sir, well done. >> that is the first time i have

ever seen that. >> my god. who is that guy? >> rose: winston churchill. >> yeah. >> wow, that was something. >> really, isn't it. >> i always remember problem. >> i had to work on that. >> that is our first audience of queen with winston churchill. >> rose: this is what, 19. >> 53ee. >> you see, that is a scene from the play the audience and you can see the very wealth spring of the whole series in that scene. >> rose: for anybody that didn't see it it was about the moments in which the prime minister would come in for a meeting with the quen and you see a series of prime ministers including tony blair. >> the relationship, obviously the relationship between the queen and churchill by the end of the season is quite different. and it feels like-- . >> rose: what do you mean, the field kind of leveled. >> i think possibly.

>> it is wonderful when she finally chas tieses me, and boy is she good in that. >> and then he realized the job was done. >> i wish i could show a clip showing that. >> would you get in a lot of trouble. >> rose: after you got your characters and your script what is the big challenge for you. >> well, this is i a very-- there are many different story lines, it's a very-- funny, you start talking about expefnlts the issue with the show in terms of staging it is that they tend to live in very opulent houses. they tend to live in buckingham palace. when they go in public alot of people are watching them. they tend to have best clothes and big cars so needless to say, the show required a certain amount of financial support and it's a big show, when you go out on set, you feel like it's-- a great sense of scale. which was always going to be a requirement of the narrative. but we are blessed. i mean to follow what john was

saying, we are blessed. i mean really, through the cast it's been a total joy to work with such a great group of people. >> that's what we expect. >> nina gold. >> so skilled. >> and there are at least ten characters that have an enormous weight on them. i mean moral dilemmas, just the intensity of the high stakes, in very, very different stories. >> rose: boy, you've got everything we need here. if you can't make this interesting, peter. >> i could throw that back at you. >> rose: i mean we've got history, we've got royalty, we've got death. >> yeah, but i-- . >> rose: we've got matureation. we've got. >> do you know how perilously close i feel i am, you know, skating all the time to complete

parody and catastrophe. and when are you dealing with people like, this the tone, the the minute you veer too much so the right it becomes a hatchet job. you veer too much to the left it becomes a photo shop. it becomes something, a white wash. and there is such resistance to the idea that these people are three dimensional, three dimensional human beings. and it feels almost like treachery, treason to be writing about them as human beings. >> i think so. >> underline human beings. >> yeah. because you know, for example, in a young marriage, the idea that they would be mat ri monday yal scwawb els, when you write that sort of stuff, you don't want it to appear, you don't want to look in too much. and the minute the show becomes pur yent t becomes ugly. the minute it becomes sensational it becomes ugly. so although i do have fantastic

ingredients, i have to be really sober and careful. >> very, very careful. >> i'm sure you are up to that. >> i am trying. >> thank you all a pleasure, really is. thank you. >> no, thank you. >> congratulations to each of you. thank you very much. >> thanks a lot. >> rose: just think, november 4th is right around the corner. get ready for the election. >> very nice to talk about something are you so proud of. >> yeah. >> rose: i see why. thank you for joining us. we'll see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charl yea rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services world i would.

♪ervices world i would. this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. fear factor. investors are edgy, and it's easy to see why. the election looms, and today brought more hints of a fed move to raise interest rates soon. what to do with your money now. home sweet home. but what might a clinton or trump white house mean for the housing market? uncertain prognosis. coloradoans will have the chance to vote on a historic initiative. the creation of a universal health care system for the state. those stories and more tonight on "nightly business report" for wednesday, november 2nd. good evening, everybody. and welcome. a mood change on wall street. sentiment seems to have shifted in part because of two things. the