. >> rose: welcome to the program, we begin this evening with politics and we talk to al hunt about campaign 2016. >> i'm not sure that the james comey revelation last friday really had a big impact. i don't think she lost any votes am but i think there were some republicans who were resistant, we're talking in the margins now, charlie, who were resistant who said i dob want four more years of this. and it brought back all their old memories. so i think in a very small way, there are a number of republicans and some industrial states like michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin without have come home. >> rose: and we continue with david adjaye the architect who let the building of the smithsonian's african-american museum of history and culture. >> the reason why we won the competition is that we refused to see the the african-american community through just one lens,

the lens of slavery or oppression. we said it's also a story that is also remarkable, a celebration. so it goes from the arc of pain also to celebration. there's a lot to be done but a lot has been achieved. >> rose: we con clue with carole bayer sager, the songwriter. her new book is called "they're playing our song." >> forget about all the great collaborations and songs and amazing artists i got to write with. first of all, one of the things i realized that i started the book is oh my god, i had a really big life. >> rose: al hunt, david adjaye, and carole bagger sager when we continue. funding for charlie rose is provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> we begin this evening with a look at the presidential campaign, the race is once again a tight contest with less than a week remaining before election day. hillary clinton currently holds a narrow lead overdone ald trump with 45% of likely voters supporting her to 42% for trump. according to the latest "new york times" cbs news poll most voters say that recent dramatic revelations about both candidates have made no significant impacts on their decisions am joining me from washington is al hunt, without better to go to as this am pain closes than my friend al hunt, for a sense of where we are at this moment, al. and have you put this whole thing in context for us? >> well, context is very elusive these days, charlie. i think what you said is absolutely right, the race has tightened, more than many of us thought it would. if it's a really close race, a

one point race, say, she has-- she being hillary clinton has an advantage with the electoral map which only matters if it is a close race. if either trump or clinton win by three or four points, the map really won't matter. the polls are all over the place. i think the cbs poll say good poll, nbc is a good poll, bloomberg is a good poll. a lot of them are not good polls am i'm looking at a lot of early voting pattern. there are a couple people without really follow it closely, mike mcdonald in university of florida, if you look at those early voting, first there is an huge surge in early voting. in some states you can say with near certainty it is going to be-- it's almost clear who will win. nevada and colorado i think hillary is as close to certain as you can be at this stage. trump is doing better in iowa and ohio. florida, big surprise, is a tossup. which it probably will be in the wee hours of the morning of november 9. but let me add one thing. as i was in your home state of north carolina last week,

charlie. here is what is 2ring when you look at early voting. the republicans are doing a little better because the african-americans, mainly democrats aren't. but the big surge down there is among unaffiliated voters. you have 45% from four years ago. who are they sth people aren't sure. that i think really captures this election right now. >> rose: but i read a thing in "politico's" plibook this morning that-- play book that suggested there is no hidden trump vote. that whatever analysis they can make so far doesn't indicate what many people thought might be there, is a hidden trump vote. >> right, the so called bradley effect. >> rose: right. >> in california, many, many years ago. i agree with that. there was no hidden trump vote during the primaries, basically. if there was, you would have probably seen it then. i think people who are doing interviews whether focus groups or a lot of-- really don't see that most people for trump are proudly for trump. i doubt there is that. but again i'm not sure who that 45% that are voting early in

north carolina compared to last time, i'm not sure who they are. they may be young people. they may be suburban moderates who favor her but nobody down there is certain. >> rose: republicans have seemed to have come home in the last week or two. why is that? >> hillary. i think-- i'm not sure that the james comey revelation last friday really had a big impact. i don't think she lost any votes. but i think there were some republicans who were resistant. we're talking in the margins now, charlie, who were resistant who said i don't want four more years of this. and it brought back all their old memories. so i think in a very small way, there are a number of republicans and some industrial states like michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin who have come home. >> rose: there is one thing that you notice in this campaign, from the very beginning. when the focus is on her, because of emails, her numbers seem to decline.

when the focus is on him because of attacks on women, either verbally or otherwise, then the attacks, then he seems to go down. in other words f it's a referendum on her, her numbers decline. if it's a referendum on him, his numbers decline. >> yeah, that's why the comey thing was so upsetting to democrats. not because she lost vote or people say after that i'm not going to vote for her. but the story, what has the story been about, it has all been hillary, emails, f burks-- fbi and the investigation. and not about donald trump. that works to the republicans advantage. the question is over the last three or four days, well he once again exercise that great penchant that he's shown throughout the whole year of stepping on his-- stepping on his own narrative, if you will. so far he's been pretty disciplined the last couple of days. >> rose: do endorsements matter here? newspapers, magazines. >> no, no. i done think so. i really don't. i mean the only-- he's gotten an

endorsement from some little paper in st. joseph, missouri and the ku klux klan nup which they disowned. but that is the only encloserments that he's gotten. my sense is they feel that is almost an vap. see, the establishment is all against us. and i don't think those sorts of endorsements matter at all. i'm a little surprised. iheut thought the cumulative effect of the republican, either sitting it out or national security republicans endorsing clinton would have had an effect by now it but it is not. >> rose: when you look at health care as an issue, how is that cutting. >> well, what trump has gotten away with is saying i'm going to have a session right after the election to repeal obamacare. and i think probably a slight majority of americans say yeah, i'm for that. until the question becomes what is he going to replace it with, which they haven't answered for the entire election. but they've gotten away with that. there is not the people out there saying you will repeal

obamacare, does that mean we lose protection for kids up to the age of 25, or people with preexisting conditions? those are-- but he really has managed to avoid addressing not only on on health care but a lot of other issues. so i think on balance, the affordable health care act is a slight plus for republicans. >> rose: does media deserve some of the responsibilities for the fact that he has not addressed these issues? >> they do. and i think the worst offenses were early on. when, and i primarily blame cable television, some of the sunday shows. he was given privileges that no other candidate had. codo remote interviews, nobody else could do that. nobody really looked at his record until he was already the nominee. i'm slightly exaggerating but not much. i think there has been very, very good coverage. "the new york times," some of the networks have done a very good job. by and large the media let him get away with more than they should have. this is a blank slate and this guy could be president of the united states next january 20.

>> rose: you and i are part of the media, why did it happen? >> because it was a great story. we are suckers for a great story. all the talk about idea logical bias, that is really-- that's so secondary. what the media falls for, particularly with table television, social media is a great story. and trump was a great story. here is this guy who says incredible things about people, he insults people with disabilities. he insults women. he insults a gold star mother. i mean and that just, that really kind of captured the attention of the media. and there were, i think, voters out there who didn't particularly like these insults but said you know what, he's not carefully staged managed the way other candidates are. so that's why it works. >> rose: he was a bigger and better performer on stage. >> yeah. and i think where the media letdown, is to say okay, let's make the assumption he is going to be president, not just that he is a great story, a great entertainer or great on stage, but if he's going to be

president, what is he going to be like? what is he going to do. who is he going to surround himself with. and i think that that remains a blank slate five days before the election. >> rose: the national security community is clearly some republicans have separated themselves on that issue because that is where they have the most concern. >> yeah, brent, someone like brent scoa croft. >> rose: or bob gates. >> who monthsogue scoacroft said donald trump achieved something i thought impossible. i said what is that. he is making me support a clinton. i feel good about it bawg es-- because he's so dangerous. i think there lot of national security types who feel that way, first of all because of what he said. he hasn't offered any coherent national security policy. but also some of the people around him, and there is no one thattive goes them great confidence. >> rose: yet despite all of this, al, he's within perhaps three points in the national poll.

three points. >> he's within three points, charlie. and if things break late, which actually they don't do very often, but sometimes they do. >> rose: and you sa said and others said he has a bit more momentum and enthusiasm. >> he does. >> rose: and that counteds for something. >> that really does count for something. the offset there is whether this great clinton analytics data get out the vote targeting effort, whether that is an offset plus some, jim mess inna wrote about that in "the new york times," the former obama cam haine-- campaign chief. and sasha-- without worked for bloomberg poll tish-- politics followed this and wrote a book. he believes any state that is 45-45, she wins 47-44 because of that infrastructure technological advantage. >> rose: is that different. >> we'll see if that is the case. >> rose: is this different from what obama had? >> it is similar to what obama

had. she is as as good as what obamad because she has hired all the obama people. they invested in that early. and trump is lagging behind romney who lagged behind obama. >> rose: but there is some indication that trump has gone heavy on data in the last four or five months. >> they used this group, i think it's called cambridge, that the meressers support. but i still think there's a huge-- again, this is not my area of expertise but talking to people like sasha eisenberg there is a sense there say huge gap. and when you go in states, and have i been to places like pennsylvania and northed carolina, and you talk about, you know, offices, contacts, every indices we have shows that the democrats are better organized thanked the republicans. and does that offset that enthusiasm, yeah, that you mentioned earlier. >> rose: you talked about endorsements. what about surrogates, can barack obama bring out the african-american vote. can michelle obama bring out the african paryn vote which is lagging behind in terms of comparison with president obama. >> i don't think they'll get the african-american turnout that obama got in 2012.

but i think in these closing days, that both the president and the first lady can help with that. in north carolina, blacks have really lagged behind. they had a big day yesterday. so they're close to where they were, four years ago, but not there yet. and a lot of that is obama. obama was in north carolina yesterday. they're doing a lot of whatever they call them, robo calls, you know, every household, michelle and the president are rock stars in that community. and i think they can help. i will tell you one other person, if i were the clinton campaign, they never ask for my advice. if ohio-- . >> rose: and you wouldn't give it if they did. >> i would not, i'm going to do it right now. if ohio is as close as people think there is one other person i would use in that community. and that's lebron james who is probably more revered than anyone in that community in ohio other than the president and the first lady. >> rose: and he stood behind his indians to the bitter end. >> boy, wasn't that great to see him do that.

i mean that really was. >> rose: there is finally this notion of fbi director comey. everything has said it didn't, and has not had an effect, those who had been polled about it, on the other hand, it seemed to confirm for some people an impression they had in terms of their dislick like for secretary clinton. did he do the right thing? the president in the beginning said i have no question shall-- i have no doubt that he had no intention to influence the election. the president later began to speak about how he made mistakes. >> i don't think jim comey who is an honorable man intended to influence the election. and i think he made a terrible mistake. and i don't think he did it for bad or partisan reasons. i think he calculated this was better than not doing it. the problem with that argument, charlie, is that he had argued it was revealed in the last couple of days, only weeks earlier that the fbi would not

join the intelligence agencies in saying the russians are trying to influence the american elections because he said that's too close to election day. you can't get the bureau involved in something that has those kind of political implications a month before the election. but whether intended or not, that's exactly what he did last friday. >> rose: are we all going to be up very late on tuesday night? >> i was going to say, we'll be up late or early. at 7:30 ohio and north carolina come in. if ohio and north carolina both go some-- both gt same-- in they both go for clinton, i just don't think there is anyway that trump can win. if they both go for trump, we'll have a long night. >> rose: al hunt, thank you so much as always. >> thank you, charmie. >> rose: david adjaye is here, he is the founder and principal architect of ads jehe soshes. his firm is responsible for the designs of the nobel peace center in os lo, the moss coschool of management and the sugar hill housing project in

harlem. he was the leads architect for the the national museum of african-american history and culture in washington, the highly anticipated museum opened to the public this september and is the final structure to be built on the national mall. completing its 200 year master plan. i'm pleased to have david adjaye at this program for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: big honor for us. >> thank you. >> rose: this was not your regular commission. >> no. >> rose: tell me about it, the idea first expressed to rou, and how you felt about it, and how it motivated you to do such a magnificent piece of work. >> thank you. well, it was an incredible competition that the smithsonian sat in 2009. and it was an international competition. we were thrilled to be on the short list. we thought we got the incredible briefing documents. we were just inspired. i was deeply inspired by it, the

fact that this museum actually had a chance to be built. and really what we were trying to do and my team, adjaye associates and my office and myself, what we were trying to do is to see if we could make a buildingk a new kind of museum. a museum where the building had an emotional meaning to the content, not just to make a kind of excellent piece of architecture and put something in, but to see if we could marry the two. and that became the whole quest. >> so the building became part of the content. >> absolutely. >> for me that is the success of the project that the two were seen as the same thing. >> rose: and how did you make that happen? >> we decided that we would actually directly not just look at architectural references or good types of spaces but also look 2e history of the african-american community, their roots in africa, their migration, the slave trade, the sort of settlement in the south of america. the migration to the urban cities, and the way in which they professionalize and become integrated into american

society. and that became clues for deciding everything from the shape of the building, which is inspired by-- trying to carry through to the detail of the metal work which is inspired by the kind of fill imsimmons kind of iron work from north carolina, that wonderful architecture. and the narrative of the building which is going from-- which is more like a tree than a traditional architecture. you go from a kript underground knowing the underworld, the histories and rise up to the the top as though you are looking through a tree to the landscape where you get to the top and you have celebration of the communities contributions to american culture. >> rose: what is extraordinary about it, having been there before the opening and participated in a cbs news broadcast, was the idea that first of all, how long this had been planned as a museum. >> yeah. >> rose: before we get to the architecture. how it finally took, you know, president bush in the end, bush 43. >> yeah. >> rose: how then they had to go out and still raise money. >> yeah.

>> rose: how they had to reach out to the african-american community and find things. they were part of a history. >> yeah. >> rose: and then bring them. and how it became something special to so many people. it became part of them to be engaged in the process of bringing all the things toghtd. >> i think that's completely unprecedented. it really truly is a kind of people's museum because most museums have precious collections. when we did the competition, there was very few objects collected. so over the space of eight years, the collection blowsommed and hearing every month or every other kind of week, new things coming in, george clinton's spaceship arriving. getting louis armstrong's trum pet, all these incredible things, obviously from celebrities but also learing from ordinary families about their voting slip that their grandmother gave them, things like that, which are really

powerful, with so emotional to see. >> rose: probably one of the most powerful moments in the history of galleries, it's incredible in the museum now. >> so there is the history of pain and suffering. >> absolutely. >> rose: and there is also the history of celebration and achievement. >> exactly. >> i think it's really a full arc. i think the reason where we won the competition is that we relose-- refused to see the the african-american community through just one lens, the lens of slavery or oppression. they say it is also a story that is also remarkable, a celebration. it goes from the arc of pain, also to celebration. there is a lot to be done but also a lot has been achieved. >> rose: and the challenge of being on the mall, your next door is the washington monument, so what choices did you decide to make there? >> it was important that, you know, this incredible fight, probably one of the most charred sites on the planet, really, where the sort of founding

fathers, laid out the pal ass of culture on one side and the memorial grounds with its monuments and shrines to american culture on the other. and we were absolutely on the kruks of those two areas. so i wanted to make a building that was both a monument and a museum. sort of looking both ways, acknowledging both issues. so you know, for instance in the building's gee soment tree, i became very interested in making sure that we made relationships toy be now notified-- photographed with that building forever it could stand starkly against it it but i chose that we should go and rhyme with it, so the 17 degree angle of the pyramid at the top of the building became the guiding angle for this sort of appearance of the cor ona. and once we did that, it has been beautiful to watch as you move around the building it sort of fuses and disengages and creates a wonderful relationship, i believe. >> rose: this is not white marble. >> no, it is not a white marble building. that was from day one, we mr. clear that we were not going

to make-- we were clear that we wanted to add another quality to the classical architecture that was on the mall and that there was something else. and lonnie, after we had won the competition, we had done a dark blrks he always said this, for him, was also one of the attractions to our project was that we presented a project which had a kind of dark presence on the mall and he felt that that resonated with finishing the spectrum, the diversity that is america. >> rose: and how did you choose that? >> well, for me, it was also to do with the classical ran gage and saying that stone is one material of the classical language but also metal, cast metal. if you look at beautiful classical antiquities, bronze was the kind of great metal of the classical age. so i thought could we make a material that would speak to that casting tradition because it's also the tradition that was very boy ant and very powerful in the time of slavery, just before slavery, some of the greatest casters which is where the community come from, mostly. i mean a good proportion come

from west africa, so there was a kind of nice sort of sin erjee that could be made with america, to say this casting tradition which becomes the tradition that african-americans are famous for in the south, making beautiful houses, can be connected. and i thought bronze being a nobel material seemed right for the mall. i mean in the end we couldn't make it out of bronze for very technical reasons. so it's aluminum with a bronze coating. >> rose: what were the technical reasons, too heavy? >> that was one. it's more to do with the guaranteeing of the structure, buildings are very complicated things now. because you can do it and you can make it work. but we had to, because this is a building on the mall, we had to make it stand for 50 years. we had to deliver a guarantee for 50 years. no building has had. >> exactly. so aluminum is something that has been tested. but bronze hasn't been tested for that sort of duration. so it was difficult to get that agreed. so in the end, in the end, it

became a bit challenging technically for us. but also aluminum offered environmental sort of qualities that i also became very attracted to. it was a recycled aluminum, so it was sustainable. less onerous and in the end it also mentd there was less pressure on the structure. it would be lighter and in the end that was the right decision. >> rose: it's possible to suggest because the way you pronounce aluminum. >> or the way a pronounce aluminum is that are you not an american. >> it's a constant thing with my office. my american team and my office are like double taking on my words. >> rose: what is it, i mean do you have in your mind the idea that when they see it, especially african-americans, i want them to know and feel what? >> i wanted them to feel an emotional sense of inclusion.

and i know that sounds a bit, you know, what's interesting is people look at the form and have said so many things to me. they think it looks like a boat. they think it looks like a crown. have i had these incredible narratives but overwhelmingly what they have all felt is an incredible sense of joy. and that was really important to me. that when we were doing the analysis, that this motive really speaks of uplift and a kind of gee om tree that goes upwards really make you as a human being think of upward form and it's interesting to see how people have emotionally reacted to that. it actually works and that was a great relief. >> rose: yeah, there is the-- juxtaposition with or prox imity to the washington monument. >> yeah. >> rose: are you a-- amaze ad at la font the way he laid out the plan. >> i think it is a magazine nif tent lan scape strategy. >> rose: how could we have seen. >> he was such a brillianted plan. he planned way ahead, he allowed 200 years of development to happen and he allowed for contemporary and the classical language to all show work. he is a brilliant master

planner. >> rose: what is the building on the other side? >> that is the federal triangle. that is the secretary of commerce's building. so i know some of the teams in there. and they were, you know, they allowed us to see from there to the site. >> rose: the former was at dusk and this one is at dawn, i think; is that correct? >> uh-huh, that's right. >> things we have seen at dawn. >> exactly. >> the next slide, exterior of the museum from the washington monument, that is what it looks like from the washington monument. look at that. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> rose: i mean it is big. >> it is a big building, a 400,000 square foot building. so people thought this s you know, it's not a half building, it's a proper museum. >> rose: exactly right. >> the last one as i mentioned to be on the mall. >> this is it. >> it completes the master plan, he planned for buildings to be along that side of mall and this was the last building to be, that he thought would be built, so we have completed the vision. >> rose: you told the guardian that this is a new kind of

museum which is really bay narrative, about a narrative, about a people and a country. and that's different. >> yeah. >> i think that that is the thing that i think is new and it is about the 21s century. and it is a kind of very opportune thing right now. we all want to know each other's stories. and i think this building comes at such an opportune time for people to learn about each other's stories. >> rose: this is what you told "the new york times." i think about the building in three parts. the historical galleries which make a kript and underground space, the the second part deals with migration from the south to urban centers, the beginning of the professional class, and wanted the journey from the kript up into the the cor ona to be analogous to history as a kind of mieg ra tore process through the light, towards the light. >> krk. >> rose: as you go towards the light. then to the uppermost level, i called it now, about the ards so the apartheid structure relates to the cor ona's three tiers t is meant to suggest a link between symbolic form and the

museum's content. >> rose: there is also 24 link. >> yes. >> rose: between the building and the content. >> this for me is what i was strifing to doment and you know, it really for me, a conversation about whether architecture is now and whether for me we can stortd to make buildings which have meaning rather than buildings which are techniques, scientific techniques. so i am trying to see if there is a way in which we can bring culture and the narratives of our time back into the technologies that we have. which are amazing. we request do so much. and this building for me is the first test of that. >> rose: when you sit down, to think about what it is that you want to be inspired by, what, how do you go about that sth. >> you know, i'm-- i am not one of those that kind of has light bull be moments. >> rose: the idea of a great muse or a moment is overdone. >> it's overdone. i'm a great reader, i'm a great researcher. i have large libraries, so what i need to work, i just dive into information. and if i am not getting it through information,

gi to places. >> rose: yeah and the internet now is a powerful toolt. >> the internet is a very powerful tool to search the world. but i'm very-- i need to be in places so i like to go to certain places. i went down to new orleans and just wandered around the incredible architecture there. you know, i was in benin not too long before the competition started. so these things influence. and then i think as the brief gels in my mind, usually early in the morning, that's when sketching starts. >> rose: how early. >> i'm a 5:00 sketcher. >> rose: is that right? >> everything happens at that time. >> you must get up earlier than that. >> i get up around 4:30 is usually my time which drives my wife crazy but-- . >> rose: that's when are you freshest, when are you most. >> yes, my mind is really-- . >> rose: and how do you sketch? >> it's furious. it's not literal, it's not pick tor yal but a series of kind of marks. there is a kind of form, it's figure tiff but i'm not trying to make pictures but clarify my

mind the intent. >> rose: was there a moment in which you knew you had it? >> yes, it was an incredible moment. >> rose: tell me. >> i was drawing. and then it suddenly, you know, i kind of made this sketch of form, a building within a building with light pouring in. and i looked at it and i was like oh my god, there it it is. and i looked at the reference images i was looking at and i looked at the image of the structure and i went oh my god there it is. it has come fully through. and then i basically sent that sketch to my team and said i think i have t what do you think. and everyone went wow, this is it. >> rose: it was a kind, it is a moamentd when that is when you realize the thing is not just about you. >> rose: that is when it ratchets up in terms of acceleration, pushing you forward. >> exactly. >> rose: you know where you want to go. >> exactly. and you're clear about it. >> rose: what did you do in moscow. >> i built the business school, harvard business school, called the skull cover business school which is the first national business school for the country. >> rose: yeah. >> so are you doing stuff there all over the world.

>> all over the world. >> rose: you're from africa. >> yes, lived in the middle east. >> rose: yes. >> lived in europe. >> rose: yes. >> all those places shaped you? >> yes, i think so. i think you are a product of where you have been. >> rose: yeah. >> and where you have been steeped in. rose: and why architecture? >> i do not-- you know, i didn't even think i wanted to become an architect. i wanted to become a chemist. >> rose: a chemist? >> i know, my brother say fantastic genetic, he's a genetic scientist. he used to work in the in germany. >> rose: is he a chemist or biologist. >> a biologist. so i kind of was-- science was a competition amongst us boys and i thought i'm going to do chemistry. i want to be great tat. >> rose: how about your dad and mum. mother was-- worked as a cretary for a bit and then met my father and then became a professional housewife. so science was really new. exciting. really, the family was

diplomatic. business, lawyers, accountants. things like that. >> rose: so you are the architect in the family. >> i'm the first creative, that we know of. formally know of. i'm stheur there are lots of creative people in the family. >> rose: you also have said you were searching for a way to produce. >> yeah, yeah. i became, i was very fascinated by art. i was actually, when i moved away from science, you know, an art school teacher was instrumental in guiding me. i went to art school and i thought i wanted to be an artist but i became scared. because i wanted the dialogue in a really active way. and i also think i sort of wanted a professional career. i didn't know how to manifest being an artist. >> rose: what do you mean, i didn't know how to manifest. >> i felt scared, i meant i felt scared about the sort of solo world of just being by yourself, working on things and whether that would be a career. whether i could live in the world with that. >> rose: whatever it was that made you want to be an artist served the idea of being an architect. >> without a doubt. they are now twinned, i know. but i realize that now.

>> rose: if you talk to frank gerry he was more inspired by art than any other thing, and frank stellor was an inspiration for him. >> and if i'm honest, art is probably my greatest inspiration, from the classical period to contemporary art. >> rose: yeah. d because of celebration ofhis this, people saying i need me some david adjaye. >> no, it would be-- it is very nice. we have incredible calls, you know, we're working on a fantastic project in san francisco. our first master plan of the old ship yards site which is really amazing. we're doing our first tower in new york which is very exciting. right next to frank gehry's tower. >> rose: on spruce street. >> on williams street, really very close, very exciting. a large tower. and then we are doing the studio museum in harlem which is the next big cultural institution that we're doing. so i'm very excited about that for that. and we're also working all over the the world where we're doing

a museum srksz actually a museum in san antonio, for linda pace, a wonderful museum collection space. >> rose: also in harlem portable housing. >> we did broadway housing, an incredible foundation, organization that does work for getting homeless people into their first homes and helping them, you know, become integrated in society. i was so inspired by that as a new york model that you know, of all the projects happening, that was my first project that i wanted to launch myself in new york with, something that was about creating a kind of dignity and empower am but high design for this community. >> rose: so home is around the world but where do you go when you need to simply find a calm port? >> my family. wherever my family is. >> that's where it is. that is where the calmness happens. >> rose: congratulations. >> thank you so much. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you so much. >> rose: david adjaye, back in a moment. stay withs. >> rose: carole bayer sag certificate here, a grammy and a

academy award inning winning letterrist and one of the po most prolisk hit makers he's written for michael jackson, frank sin at ra, sell even deion, whitney houseton, carly simon just to name a few. here is a look at some of her many hit songs. ♪ i can hear you breathing in my ear. ♪ won't you agree. ♪ baby you and me. ♪ well hello there snoatd good old friend-of-mine. ♪. >> but i know that i can't go back any more. ♪ time for me to do it. ♪ on my own. ♪ i'm on my own. ♪ why did it end this way.

♪ just making me tired. ♪ it's a being in love. ♪ make me cry, cry, cry. ♪ ♪ in tiements when we don't know. ♪. >> you just said to me the prayer is one of your favorites. >> it is, you know, first of all, the song itself that i wrote with david foster, i think is one of the best songs that we've written, i've written. and two, the lyric lead us to a place guide us with your grace, to a place where we'll be safe, you know, is a theme that i think has run through my, although it was wrirch for a young girl and animated film who was going off on a dangerous adventure, i think it is a theme that went through my life for from day one, which was not

feeling safe and but back to the record for a moment. >> rose: well we come back to that. >> when you put the the voices of sell even deion and andrea bocceli on this song that i thot was good t suddenly took on a whole knotter dimension that i didn't even know was in the song because their voices are so close to heaven. >> rose: but that's what it is supposed to do, isn't it? >> yes, but not everybody moves you to a place where your heart is like almost overflowing, where you could feel a tear or you could, i mean, you know, the prayer ended up being a record that people get married to. they have memorial services and funeral service. i hear it at weddings and funerals. and i think it's because it touches a very deep place in-- inside of people because we all-- i think with so many of

us, where wanting that feeling of safety. >> rose: you wanted it your whole life but didn't feel safe until the 40see when you made it? >> no, no, no. i made it well before that. and i still, my whole marriage to butter back a rack i was always insecure, is he looking at that woman, does he like-- i never felt like i was enough, you know. i have pretty much never felt like i was enough my whole life. i think it's why i started by adding a simple e to carole to make it carole with an e because it just looked a little prettier. and then accumulated a series of names in my life. neil simon called me the girl with too many names who could have been a law firm, you know. so i think-- i think it comes down to if you felt loved as a child, if you felt crittized,

which-- criticized which i had an overly critical mom who didn't know how to be nurturing. >> rose: what gives you the capacity to write a hit song. what is that talent? what is that skill and with does it come from? >> we just saw a whole list of great songs by you. >> they weren't really the great ones. >> rose: what are the great ones. >> i think the great ones are that's what friends are for. >> rose: right. >> because not so much because of songs but because we have raised so much money for aids research. but i love the songs too. >> rose: what else? >> i think you and me, we wanted it all with peter allen, that frank sinatra recorded is one of my better letter esks. you and me, we wanted it all, passion without pain. you know, sunshine without rainy days. just, look how all our dreams

came true, see how you've got me. see how i've got me and baby you've got you, through it all just one thing, a little thing called love, feeling deep inside. i think i love-- i love music my whole life, songs, i listened to them as long as i can remember. i wrote lyrics to them when i was a little girl at camp. and it is just something i always knew i could do. and wanted to do. and my feelings could be expressed through-- i mean some songs early on were like songs to my future self. i wrote a song with melissa manchester early in the '70s called home to myself. and i wasn't home to myself yet. but the words were. and today i hear it and gi yeah, yeah, that's. >> what were the great collaborations for you?

>> i would say peter allen. >> right. >> incredibly underrated songwriter, talent in my opinion. marvin hamlisch who was a genius, and fast ille beyond words at the keyboard. writing with them and with peter was joyful. they were so quick. they were so alive, they were so-- and i-- and burtd, burtd but butter in a different way. butter in that i-- burt in that i acknowledge him as a genius, i think he is a musical genius but his process was not an easy one. he labored over which cord to use. do you like this cord? or do you like this cord i go

okay, i braic? -- i like that cord. but he disngtd really care what i liked. he just needed me in the room, so he would go back to this cord, this cords. and it was hours. mean but you know, when we got to writing the melody which he was completely like, this is my melody. don't change a note. whereas everyone else i had ever written with was yeah, that's a good melody that you saning, carol. or here's a line, what do you think of this lyric. there was a flow, there was a back and forth, with burt, i mean the perfect example was when we were writing that's what friends were for. and he played da da da da da. ♪ so i said okay, how about, i never thought i would feel this way. ♪ he said that's not what i played. i played da da. ♪ da da da.

♪ so yeah, just go, i-- carole, i need that note. da da. so i almost just-- so he went stated the piano and i. ♪ never i thought i would feel this way. ♪ an when i hear it on the radio, i go, you know, burt, that 16th note made the the song better. and made the lyric better by accident because now you're coming in on the middle of a thought. >> rose: would you tell him that. >> i told him that many times. >> rose: and did working together destroy the relationship? >> didn't help. it didn't help but in all honesty, i don't know if there would have been a relationship. >> rose: without the work. >> without me being this very hot songwriter at the time and burt being very cooled off at the time. i don't know if that-- . >> rose: he came to you because he needed help. >> i don't foa. >> rose: in his work. >> you know-- . >> rose: but the sheer fact

that you think that, maybe. >> yes. >> rose: says. >> says that there was going to be problems. >> rose: well, it says that there may have been a bit of an insecurity. >> a bit? a bit? >> rose: yes. >> yes, a bit. >> rose: i mean you were worried about him and other women, you were worried about. >> you know, when i met burt, i think i immediately began to make him up. and went into some kind of an illusion. i mean he was driving a big green lincoln. and i thought his real car was in the shop. he was living in a one room apartment on will shier boulevard with a piano and a sofa and sheet music all over the floor. and i thought oh, you are probably fixing his new home for him, you know. and in fact, burt, it's like maya ang how says when someone shows you who they are, believe them. burt showed me who he was and then i went on, oh, well, let's

buy this house in bel-aire an let's have elizabeth taylor as our best friend and let's have parties. and burt who, one of 9 things that i think i fell in love with, or whatever it was that i fell in approximate, illusion, was his voice. because he spoke in the rhythm in which he wrote his songs. so he would say like, hey, carole, you know, i don't want to be known for the-- for the parties i give. i want to be known, you know, for the songs. >> okay, well, we'll give less parties, you know. >> rose: but that's understandable. >> it is understandable. we were not really meant to be together, other than to probably write these songs and-- because the songs were good. and clearly we were meant to be together so that we could have

christopher, our 30 year old son. but brtd, burt goes to the beat of his own drum. >> rose: does a lyricist have a sort of elevated respect for the composer? >> well, i do, because it's the thing i don't do as well. i mean i have a respect for the composer. particularly when i get the luxury of writing with such a great composure. i think they have a respect for the lyricist. it's that wonderful old story when mrs. hammerstein met mrs. rogers at a party and you know that story with mrs. rogers saidz oh, my husband wrote oh what a beautiful morning. and mrs. hammerstein said no, your husband wrote, da da da da da.

♪ my husband wrote oh what a beautiful morning. ♪. >> that's great. >> rose: it's also the dedication for chris and bob tail ity. >> yes. >> rose: the wonderful husband within i think my life, i think i began to truly live my life when i met bob. >> rose: so how, what changed? >> well, going back to the original thing we talked about. >> rose: yeah. >> about the prayer. >> yeah. bob made me feel safe. >> rose: why? >> because he was real. he was, had his feet on the ground and he loved me. and he didn't love me because i could lay a golden goose and write a hit lyric. and he didn't love me for any other reason than z he seemed to love me. that was shocking to me. and he not only loved me, he was a man who when christopher was five years old and said

something not very respectful to me, said i heard a voice go, excuse me, that's no way to talk to your mother. and i looked around because i had never heard that in all the years that christopher was growing up until then. i mean he was-- he was a man who set boundaries. he is a man who can love. he is a man who is fair and decent and i never had that in my life. >> rose: what did you leave out of this, they're playing our song. >> i left out certain things about my relationship with marvin hamlisch. because i felt he is one of america's great composers. i loved him. i loved him as a friend, years after our relationship was over. and there was no reason to say things that might not be-- that i would feel someone might feel

bad about reading. >> you didn't need to say that in order to paint your picture of marvin. >> no, not at all. was it hard to write. >> yeah. >> how did you go about it? >> i went about it because i someone had said you should write a book and i went downstairs. i started to think about it. i thought you know, everybody be compared their insides to other people's outsides. and i thought my book could help people. forget about all the the great collaborations and the songs and the amazing artists i got to write with. first of all, one of the things i realized that i started the book is oh my god, i've had a really big life. >> you had a big life. >> and i didn't know it was a big life as i was living it. when i was able to live it. and then i thought you know, carole, you should tell your story. your journey.

not just the musical part, because there are people you can help. and that's why i decided to write the book. >> rose: did you want to be-- so many songwriters warrant to be vocalists. >> well, i guess i did i recorded three records. but i always knew no one was going to ask to hear my version of over the rainbow. i knew that i had this luxury because i wrote the song. >> rose: you had a number one hit in australia. >> i did. a song that i wrote with bete mid letter and bruce roberts called you're moving out today. it was perfect bete. the girl through the guy out of the house and we laundry listed. bete used to say to me, why you always use the same words. why you are always using home and light and you know, friendship. use some new words. >> and she started pulling out books with words in them. and we wrote this song where we laundry list why this guy should-- what this guy should be thrown out of the house and take with him. >> rose: but your ability to

write gave you a life. and you just had said a big life. >> a big life. and it not only gave me life, it saved my life. >> rose: because? >> because i think i could have been in a backward somewhere. i mean i was crazy frightened. i mean i'm not telling du-- -- . >> rose: frightened of what. >> frightened of bombs falling, frightened of diseases where i was sure i was dying of leukemia and multiple sclerosis. you wouldn't want to be inside of me or be with me except that nobody saw it. it was all inside. because on the outside i appeared to be a friendly lovely young girl. and then when night time fell, i was terrified to sleep in my own bed. i mean look, it made me who i am today, so i bless all of it.

and i did have a great healing year with my mother the year that she was dying of cancer. >> rose: a healing. >> yes. i made a decision i was going to love her unconditionally, no matter what button she pushed in me. i was going to try to see if i could do that. and for the most part i succeeded and she lived in our home the last year of her life. and she-- she all but for her illness, she was so happy because you know, she was being loved. and she was getting the attention she never got. >> rose: neil sigh-- simon wrote a play but and marvin-- marvin hamlisch. >> yes, they're playing our song. >> rose: they're playing our song. tell me about that. >> well, it was a fantastic,

easy, wonderful delicious experience because i had neil simon, who had, i don't know if he had ever failed on broadway. but certainly not-- a lot of hits. and i had marvin, who had come off winning the pulitzer prize for a chorus line doing the music. and i just felt wrow, this is not so difficult, plus it was fun. i mean it was supposed to be about marvin and me. >> rose: semi-- semiawe auto buy graph kal. >> a capital s on the the semibut some of it mirrored us. the unlikely duo of us. he was like in a three piece suited all the time and i was in t-shirt and jeans and that part, the backiness and neur owe cease as opposed to the button down. and marvin was quite neur otic which was part of his charm. >> so you have written this

book. st your store eyewitnesses my story within the story of your life, the story of your insecurities, your successes, the story of your big life. what else do you want to add to that life now? >> i want to give back. i want to give more to other people. spent an awful lot of time giving to myself. so i don't know what form that will take. and i am-- i mean i do work with donors, choose very closely and i work with los angeles county museum of arts. but and i don't know, i do say in the book that i have a need to be creative. so maybe something on broadway, maybe i don't know. >> rose: but you want it. >> i need to create. creates keeps me sain. >> rose: the book is called they're playing our song. carolinge bayer sager, thank you. >> thank you, so much. >> rose: pleasure to have you

here. >> you're so sweet to have had me here, thank you. >> rose: thank you for joining us, we'll see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ calories, calories, calories! >> wow, it rocked my world! >> it just kind of reminded me of boot camp. >> i don't know what you had, but this is great! >> it almost f