>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with dexter filkins who just returned from damascus, syria, and a conversation with bashar al-assad. >> we were sitting together in this small room. i asked him about being a war criminal, and he said, i don't cake it personally. you know, the west is against me. i've become a headline for them. this is how they paint the conflict in black and white, so i'm the bad guy and the rebels are the good guys. >> rose: we continue with jonathan karl and mike allen in conversation about politics 2016. >> if you're in trump tower, you suddenly feel like you have new oxygen. what the comey letter did was let trump off the mat and republican senate candidates off the mat. so the fact that republicans are still very skeptical about

trump, they're suddenly quite optimistic about their senate a candidates. >> rose: we conclude this evening with jon bon jovi. his new album is called "this house is not for sale." >> three iterations of boy band conversations has come and gone. rap has come and gone. grunge music has come and gone and what i never did was jump on those bandwagons when they were becoming increasingly more popular. so as i grew and grew up, i would not try to rewrite you give up a bad name or living on thonthe prairie. i was 24. i had something to say. or i was going to come and b.s. you. >> rose: >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and

information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: syrian president bashar al-assad met with think tank people in damascus this week, insisted his country's social fabric was better than before the civil war that began there more than five years ago and ruled out political changes until government forces had prevailed and declared he planned to remain president at least until his term ends in 2021. it is believed that at least 500,000 syrians have been killed and nearly half the country's population have been driven from their homes during the war, so far. the "new yorker" magazine's dexter filkins was among journalists who met with assad. he joins me and i am pleased to have him just back from damascus. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: how did this happen? and exactly who was in the room

and what were the ground rules? >> well, the syrian government, president assad, i think because they're feeling pretty good about themselves. >> rose: think they have a story to tell. >> and i think they're feeling stronger than they have at anypoint. >> rose: because of the support of the russians and hezbollah and everybody else. >> yes. they had a conference, some friends and family relations of his staged a conference in damascus, and, so, they invited a bunch of journalists and think tank people to come. from that, they just selected a couple of people to come and meet the president. so i didn't know that was going to happen until -- >> rose: you went for the conference and you and ann bernard from the "new york times" in a meeting with him. >> yeah. >> rose: who else was in the meeting. >> some think tank people. >> rose: six or eight maybe? three or four. >> rose: oh, three or four? yeah. we all got in a van and drove -- you go into a secure area, lots of checkpoints, lots of blast

walls. then suddenly we're at his house. he was standing at the door. >> rose: he welcomed you to his house. >> yeah. >> rose: before you talked about the conversation. tell me what's happened on the ground. what's the status on the ground as we speak? >> you mentioned at the top of the show what an utterly catastrophic war it is, a half million dead, the whole state is disintegrated, half the country is displaced from their homes, this massive refugee crisis threatening the european union. i mean, it's the great catastrophe of our time, and i think that everyone thought most of the world and probably including assad himself that he was going to go around maybe 2012, 2013. but basically what you've seen since then is massive intervention first by the iranians, then by hezbollah, and then finally by the russians which i think, last year, has been very decisive.

>> rose: did the iranians put people on the ground or support hezbollah. >> they've got people on the ground. maybe not fighting but they're directing the fighting. >> rose: princ prince armani is- he's on the ground now. they've diciviles changed the situation on the ground so pretty close to 70% of the population in syria lives in areas controlled by the government now. >> rose: what part? probably something close to three-quarters of the people left in syria. so many people left. >> rose: what's happening in aleppo as we speak? the russians said they were going to have a cease fire now? >> yeah. all of that is a prelude to what is middle eas -- what is a medit to the death. aleppo is under siege by assad's government. they have been bombing it relentlessly, bombing hospitals.

it's horrible. they're completely cut off there. what is a few days' cease fire by the russians, we'll give you a few days, anybody who wants to leave, get out, here are the corridors. after that, we're doing in. >> rose: going to retake aleppo, all of it. >> yeah, and i think we should stand back for a second and look at what's happening. i think the goal for assad and the russians is to capture all of aleppo, which before the war was the largest city in syria. you capture aleppo and essentially you have most of the population under government control. you have a long strip of cities going from aleppo to damascus, beirut to the mediterranean. i.s.i.s. is being squeezed in the west and east, raqqa will fall and who becomes president of the united states will be faced with a feta come pli which

is now we control most of the country. >> rose: we the government of syria have regained control our country, what the president of the united states inaugurated on january 20 will face. >> yes. i think assad finds himself in a strong position. frankly, that's why he had a bunch of journalists in. they haven't had american journalists in syria for three years at least. >> rose: they haven't let american journalists in three years? >> they haven't been granting visas in for three years, two at least. >> rose: just to get into the country. >> just into the government-controlled parts of syria. they have been keeping everybody out. >> rose: i thought someone from cbs news had been there. >> basically the only journalists have been going in from the northeast the kurdish part and a few people are braving the turkish border which is nuts.

it's a dangerous place. >> rose: back to raqqa and mosul and what's happening. you know that area. >> i was there, too. >> rose: what did assad say. you said how do you feel about being called a war criminal? >> yeah, i opened the consideration that way. you know, it's kind of anti-climactic when you go to a meeting like this because you're expecting something more, and, i mean, i think it's sort of the ikeman effect. you know, he's not -- he may be a monster but doesn't look like. it he's more like a clerk or a lawyer or banker. so it's slightly unexpected. so, you know, we were sitting together in this small room. i asked him about being a war criminal. he said, i don't take it personally. >> you know, the west is against me. i've become headland for them.

this is how they paint the conflict in black and white so i'm the bad guy, the rebels are the good guy. he went on to say, he painted this world view, very different than anything you and i would recognize. i.s.i.s. is a creature of the united states. the united states, turkey, saudi arabia are supporting i.s.i.s. so he's holding a line against i.s.i.s. that's essentially -- >> rose: what is his argument that makes i.s.i.s. a creation of the united states and saudi arabia and turkey and whoever else? >> well, this is the story they tell themselves. but, you know, you have the united states, saudi arabia, turkey, it is true that they have been supporting rebel groups who are fighting assad, and the united states is not supporting i.s.i.s. i pointed out to american soldiers -- >> rose: formally al-nusra

group, primarily? >> well, maybe not primarily. there are so many groups fighting in syria. >> rose: some of the people we support are supporting them? >> the latter. we don't support all nusra but a lot of money and arms that have been pumped into syria have been gotten to them, so that essentially allows president assad and the syrian government to kind of say, look, the united states and all their allies are supporting the evil i.s.i.s. >> rose: do they say that because you're fighting me, therefore supporting them because my enemy is them. >> yeah, basically. >> rose: which his enemy is rebel forces trying to overthrow him. >> they don't use the phrase "civil war." there is not a civil war. there is no great grievance the syrian people have against this government. this is a war driven by foreigners, by the west. >> rose: it is true, after the

arab spring and after he got engaged in civil war, that is when al quaida and i.s.i.s. and everybody rushed over there because they thought they could take advantage of the situation, correct? >> yes. the war now there is five and a half years long, so the war looked very different in 2012 than it does now. we'll never know, but the argument for western intervention back then was always, look, let's support the moderate groups before the crazies get too strong, and i think that moment has passed. >> rose: that was the crucial moment that you believe -- >> yeah, if there was a window, it was early on, 2012, 2013. >> rose: when the president elected not to do more for the rebel groups. >> yeah, if you remember there was that pretty critical moment where hillary clinton, secretary of state, petraeus. >> rose: bob gates. and gates all said let's arm

the rebels and do the big push, the moderate rebels, and the president basically said no. >> rose: does he continue to say no, or has that changed? >> no, we're doing -- the united states is doing some stuff, but not -- it's not decisive in any way. i think the saudis and the turks have been doing much more than we have been. remains, 2016, the strongest rebel groups are i.s.i.s. and al-nusra. >> rose: two groups that don't like each other. >> they don't, but they're groups we would never support, ever. that's how assad can view himself as sort of the bulwark of civilization fighting the islamic lunatics. >> rose: state department says

without leverage on the ground we have no conversation. >> assad today 2016 is stronger than he has been at any point since the war began. >> rose: so what does vladimir putin win by his intervention? >> i think he wins influence. i mean, syria -- >> rose: they owe him big time. >> look, the goal to have the united states has been to remove assad from the beginning. you know, president obama said that many times because the united states government believes he's the person driving the violence. i don't think assad's going anywhere, you know, frankly. h he is entrenched. he is -- again, he's stronger than he's ever been. he's got the russians, the iranians, hezbollah, i think they're feeling good about themselves. >> rose: a piece was rine this week saying the only solution is to split it up. >> it's already broken.

the question is it ever going to come together. it's like iraq. it's interesting how all this connects syria and iraq. you have the big battle happening now in mosul where the united states is supporting the iraqi government fighting mosul to expel i.s.i.s. from mosul which is the second largest city, but i think what is likely to happen -- let's say mosul falls, which i.s.i.s. is basically driven out of mosul which i think is going to happen. what happens then? i think what's going to happen is a lot of the i.s.i.s. guys are going to retreat into syria. i think a lot of the iranian-backed shiite militias that are now fighting in iraq against i.s.i.s. are going to go into syria. i mean, a lot of them came from syria to fight in mosul. so, essentially, that battle going to move into syria. assad actually talked about that. >> rose: what did he say?

that's what's going to happen? >> yeah, essentially, again, it was a conspiracy, but he said, look, he said, this whole -- you know, the americans fighting i.s.i.s., that's all theater. he said, what they're really going to do is push i.s.i.s. into syria, so we have to fight him here. >> rose: they've retaken mosul and the iraqis are in that fight, aren't they? >> yeah, they are, but the americans are in the sky dropping bombs. i think what's really problematic about what's happening in mosul is that you have this really large number of shiite militias fighting there on the side of the iraqi government and the united states, supported and trained and directed by the iranians. the republican guard, the i.r.g.c. are on the ground in iraq. >> rose: and in syria. absolutely. so i think what is likely to

happen, you know, mosul will probably fall, i.s.i.s. will be pushed out, but then essentially the iranians have been trying ps to give it to them and the kurds said no. they'll probably be able to secure that. >> rose: therefore, they would move into lebanony they have hezbollah friends. >> yes. if you look at the map up you have lebanon, mediterranean, syria, and assad and then you have iraq. you have this sphere of influence that the iranians have been tight to secure for many years. >> rose: the shia crescent. the shia crescent, and it's looking good for them now. >> rose: for the iranians. yeah. and again, we're kind of mixed up in this in a very -- i mean, i think if there is a legitimate criticism to be made about what's happening in mosul right now it's that the united states government is, you know, fully knowledgeable of the role of

these iranian militias in fight against i.s.i.s., and there is thousands of them and, you know, a lot of these guys -- i mean, you can name these people, the leader of iranian-backed militia hezbollah -- >> rose: are they shia militia supported by iran? >> shia militia supported by iran. bbazali kidnapped and executed seven american soldiers in 2007 in karbala. these are people we have been trying to kill. >> rose: do we have an option? we're doing air strikes. >> rose: but do we have an option? could we have kept them out? >> sure. the options are horrible. >> rose: there have always been options in terms of the iraqi prime ministers. >> it's a mess. how do we get i.s.i.l out of

mosul? the iraqi army disintegrated. >> rose: so the brunt of the fighting is coming from iraqi shia militias, who you just described killed the americans, are doing the brunt of the fighting? >> they're doing a lot of the fighting. typically what happened in fallujah and ramadi is you have american airstrikes, iraqi special forces very good, trained by the americans, very professional, and then you have iraqi army shia militias coming in behind them. what is really troubling to me is what's going to happen in mosul once they go into the city. they will be able to go inside the city. then what's going to happen? you're going to have these, again, very sectarian militias going into a largely -- shia militias going into a sunni city, pushed by an extremist

regime in tehran, the americans will be hard pressed to control that. >> rose: human shields used. yeah, i.s.i.s. is evil, so we've made this kind of ugly deal -- >> rose: this warfare makes strange bedfellows. >> absolutely, and that's find of what we've done is sort of signed off on -- >> rose: so where are the turks? they fighting or want to fight? >> they're trying to maintain their influence so they've crossed the border in syria and iraq as well. >> rose: so is it possible mosul will go? >> yeah, i think so. it's a question of how long it's going to take. it might take a long time. >> rose: what's a long time? weeks, months. >> rose: okay. do you think it's possible that, if they take mosul sooner rather than later, that they can then take raqqa? >> i think that's the plan.

>> rose: because i've often wondered if that's what the president really wanted to do, look, i've fought the battle against i.s.i.s. and we took all the land they have. they had no caliphate, nothing. the capacity to send people into the urban areas of western europe and the united states. >> yeah, what's distinguished i.s.i.s. from all the groups that came before it, al quaida, everybody else? they hold territory, a caliphate. mosul is the biggest city they have, second largest city in iraq, two million people before war started and raqqa is the capital. those are the two poles. i think probably what happens is i.s.i.s. retreats, what's left of it melts away into the desert and becomes what al quaida in

iraq was. >> rose: baghdadi released his radio tape. >> ranting. >> rose: telling them to fight to the last person. >> rivers of blood, yeah. which is interesting because a lot of people thought baghdadi was dead or gravely wounded but if you listen to the recording he sounds alive and well. >> rose: how did the conversation end with assad? >> well, i think he made it clear to us that he's not going anywhere. i mean, you know, he talks about this election they had in 2014 where he got something like 90% of the vote. he's very proud of that. but he said, you know, i'm the captain of the ship, and the captain of the ship does not abandon, doesn't jump overboard in the middle of a storm, so i'm searing the ship to shore -- steering the ship to shore. >> rose: by deposition, is the reality we're looking at mean the obama policy failed?

>> well, i mean, there are two policies here, one is syria and the other is iraq. you know, iraq -- >> rose: i'm talking about syria because this is about syria. >> we're preserving the iraqi state and we're sort of holding that together. you know, the -- >> rose: or i is the president right, it didn't have made a difference? >> i think president obama has made it clear that he thinks that if we try to do more in syria, we're just going to make it worse, you know, and you get yourself involved down in the weeds in the middle east and you're just going to get all tangled up and make it worse. but, look, president obama has been very clear, assad must go. that's the overall objective of american policy, it has been -- >> rose: since the arab spring began. >> absolutely. he's said it many times because i think he believes that the assad government is essentially the root of the problem which is

it's very oppressive and driving the violence. and assad hasn't gone anywhere. so, you know, if the united states has clearly failed in that objective, i think. >> rose: second paragraph of your piece. in the five and a half years since the uprising in syria began, it has become the most catastrophic war of our young century. assad most vilified national leader in the world, as many as 400,000 syrians are dead and some 11 million, nearly half the country's population, have been driven from their homes. hundreds of thousands have fled to europe, hundreds of those have drowned in the mediterranean. assad has been branded a war criminal, bombasted for government's use of torture, bomb batteredments of cities and use of chlorine gas. most countries including the united states severed diplomatic relations. president obama called repeatedly for him to step down. he has remained in power thanks

in large part to the west's reluctance to involve itself heavily in the conflict and a the sitessive military intervention on behalf of russia, iran and hezbollah, aleppo, you go on to say once the country's economic center is largely in ruins and the government through ares of brutal bombings is besieging the last enclave outside its grip, which many people look at as the human cay t.s.a catastrophe -- e of our time. >> i think so. what if say sad stay sth's what do you have? syria? it's broken, completely fragmented. awe sad may have the population centers but half the country has been driven from their homes. i don't know how he, the russians, us, anybody, i don't know how you put that country back together. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you. >> rose: dexter filkins. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: it is the final weekend before the presidential

election, and the only thing certain is that voters will go to follows on tuesday. where does the race stand going into its final days? jonathan karl of abc news talked with his friend mike allen of politico. >> thank you, charlie. it's great to be here on the friday before election day with mr. mike allen. so let's just look at how this race is right now from trump tower. how are the trump folks looking at this race? >> if you're in trump tower, you shrined feel you have new oxygen. what the comey letter did was let trump off the mat and even more importantly let republican senate candidates off the mat. so the fact republicans are still skeptical about trump, they're quite optimistic about the senate candidates. >> how do the trump candidates think they will win this? >> they've had what he's had from the beginning, momentum and

excitement. the argument is, going into this crazy weekend, if you have momentum, excitement and optimism that suddenly the polls meanless and the national movement is wide. you're hearing the same from the clinton headquarters, they know they can't mess this up, but there is quite a lieutenant of comfort with what's going on. they say they feel like this is bait, that people are not changing their minds, and there is four reasons that clinton remains the prohibitive favorite despite what you will see on the web orhat you will have in your conversations. one is the early voting, as you know has been faving democrats. second, it's a big theory of the brooklyn team of clintonen's

team, that we have democrats coming home to vote for a democrat. we have republicans coming home to vote for republicans. as long as that happens, as long haven't seen, she's fine.that it's the blue wall, the structural bandages. third, trump does not have the infrastructure and the get out the vote, the on the ground effort that any republican would want him to have. fourth, there's a strong feeling among the hillary voters that they are going to be able to take the votes that they have, those early votes, and the natural electoral advantage she has and 40% of people voted before election day even dawns. >> my sense, getting back to brooklyn, the clinton team feels more optimistic about a florida than even a couple of weeks ago. >> yes, one of the ways we see that is from the republican

senate polling. the best window into what's happening in the states is the republican senate candidates because they have real operations, reeling polling, and e the republican senateo, we ndidates marco rubio down in florida, rob portman in ohio, running way ahead of trump, and that's another reason that trump could win and why do people go to the races? because long shots come in. some like the day after november 9th. who are the republicans that will be standing tall? who is the head of the pack in 2020? >> i think you want to be somebody who was minute the middle. you want to be the senator tom cotton of arkansas. you want to be the senator ben sasse of nebraska. i think you want to be a nikki haley. and the one person who was involved in this who is getting very good buzz among republicans and could be better off is mike pence, right? he's the one person that around

washington you hear he could be in a better place for -- >> are you saying he's proud to be donald trump's running mate? >> newt gingrich said the general election of 2020, a trump-clintonen rematch, he said if trump doesn't win, he loves running and being a part of the move the and he'll form a trump party within the g.o.p., and if hillary survives investigations as newt put it, 2020 you will have temperature-clinton again. >> i'll take the no bet on that again. chris christie and bridge gate, we had the verdict guilty, his top aide guilty. what does that mean. >> much less to be attorney general, assuming it's trump. the testimony that came out, the governor hasn't admitted to anything, but in the testimony, it was all embarrassing and

pointing to a very widespread contention within his inner circle that he knew about the bridge closing. so the people who have been -- the critics of the governor have been very much vindicated by his verdict, makes a new exciting top job for him in washington, much more difficult in the coming day. >> all right, mike allen. thank you, jon. >> rose: jon bon jovi is here. this year marks 33r 33rd anniversary of the lead singer's legendary band bon jovi. the group sold more than 130 million records. it has played more than 2,700 shows around the globe. their 14th studio album "this house is not for sale" is out this friday. here's a look at the title track from the new album. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ they four walls have got a story to tell ♪ ♪ the door is off the hinges ♪ there's no wish in the well ♪ outside the sky is coal black ♪ ♪ the streets are on fire ♪ the picture windows cracked and there's nowhere to run ♪ ♪ i know, i know ♪ this house is not for sale. ♪ ♪ i'm coming home ♪ i'm coming home ♪ this house is not for sale >> rose: bon jovi known for philanthropic work as much as rock status. j.b.j. soul foundation celebrating the 10t

10th anniversary, hoping to break cycle of poverty and homelessness around the country and they are doing something about it. pleased to have bon jovi at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. great to be back. >> rose: 33 years. i know. i've earned the grey hair. it comes with the turf, but i'm happy to say, 33 years, yeah. >> rose: what's the secret, the magic poshe went to stay in power, to being as good today? >> i think there's no magic poshe went. hard work always comes first. being true to who you are i think is very important so that an audience that grows up with you can remain with you, and then those who have gotten off the train because life happened, next generation can come on with the certification of those who came before them. >> rose: more to this album in just a moment, but you have to change -- you have to remain true to who you are. >> true to who you are.

>> rose: but you also have to change. >> within the parameters of who you are. why i use the word "truth" and why integrity means so much to me is i have been around so much so long fashions have come and gone. three iterations of boy band generations, rap music, grunge music all have come and gone, and what i never did was jump on those bandwagons when they were becoming increasingly more popular i. so as i grew and grew up, i would not try to rewrite you give up a bad name or living on a prayer again. i was 25 years old. at 54, you have something else to say. or i'm going to come to you and b.s. you. >> rose: but at the same time you hate to play it when you're on tour? >> no, not so much i hate to play it, but i do know all the words and -- no, i don't hate it. >> rose: i hated to hear that, in fact, because it is -- >> it's taken a little out of context, but the truth is every artist is proud of his new record. >> rose: yes, of course. and you're very anxious to play the new one.

hence, that's why i did the four theater shows to explain owning a new record, only the new stuff. it was received well. but i have been blessed having written a number of big hits and, yes, living on a prayer is that song. i got it. i know the words. >> rose: but sometimes i look at a stage, and i'll see people looking down at the prompter. >> yes. >> rose: for the words. surely. they're there for me as well. not because i don't know the words. >> rose: for protection. yes, because my mind, in a perfect show, the last thing i'm ever doing is thinking about what's going on. i'm on another plane. >> rose: where are you? i am thinking about having a drink with you somewhere in the bar after because, in truth, i'm having such a great time that i am not in and of the minutia. if i hear a note go wrong, that's when i come back to it,

otherwise, i become that thing. >> rose: and that's the performance. >> oh, yeah, it's fantastic. >> rose: and you one with the audience at that time? >> most definitely. but on another plane. it's not about worrying about the minutia. it's abou about taking in the ey together. >> rose: why isn't your band in the rock and roll hall of fame? >> the truth is we've met all the prerequisites and if you want to be brutally honest, some of us have friends in the business and some of us have friends who are not such good friends and you have other people who are envious and jealous and i've had a couple of falling outs with some of those people and they're going to hold it over my head. look, statistics speak alone. the music has spoken for generations. but i won't get in while these guys are there. it's okay. >> rose: you can outlive them? well, rock and roll was founded on rebellion and i would rather have the integrity of knowing i went right to the guy and let him know which one of my

fingers was pointing in his general direction and it was very close. >> rose: who are these people? musicians, artists? >> the people in charge of the voting of the secret little ballot that they have. >> rose: oh. but the truth of the matter, none of our memorabilia is in there, i've taken it all out, and i had a falling out with a couple of the people there. more than one. >> rose: what did they do to yoto -- what did they do to piss you off? >> just enough to get me -- to say that. because i'm not a reactionary, i really don't behave like that. but the pride i have in our legacy and in my body of work was enough that, you know, you got under my skin, i said what i had to say, i don't regret it? you used to make an album which had a beginning, middle and end. >> that's right. >> rose: what's the status today? >> well, although there is a return to anything that's old is

new again and kids are going to find it's wonderful, but it's never going to return to the hay day. >> rose: the hay day was -- the late '80s, early '90s when you could sell 20 million copies of a record. these were the gold mining years of the record business. >> rose: and what killed it? in my humble opinion, i think that going to the well one too many times, asking the consumer to buy the record in different formats that kept coming out. we all needed the reel to reel to give us the cassette, the eight track to lead us to c.d. but all i'm saying is that the art form should have been presented as a whole, and if this art form was presented with a beginning, middle and end, i don't care how you distribute it because of technology, when you broke it up and said, johnny, it's about quantity. and i said, no, no, no, it's about quality. it's about knowing track seven

is what inspired the kid from the next generation to want to write the single, and that's very important. i said, you guys have crossed over to the other side. and i was chastised for it. again, i stand on my principles the book without the middle chapter doesn't tell you the whole story and the arts are interdependent. >> rose: are you a song writer who happens to perform or a performer who happens to write songs? >> i think i'm a very good performer, but my joy comes from song writing. song writing first, recording second, performing third. i enjoy the interaction with an audience, but i'm not an applause junky, and i know those who, are i don't live for that. writing a song to me is the closest thing that a song writer will ever know to immortality. if you are blessed with a song that has been on the charts for a long period of time or has withstood generations in music style changes, that's going to outlive anything else that i do.

>> rose: what did you think of dylan and the nobel prize? >> amen. i posted a picture right next to the painting of him and i said congratulations to the master and with all reverence -- >> rose: some writing can be poetry, and poetry can be literary. >> think of what he did for history. he's a literary genius and able to put it into a manner that the young kids and old people can understand, and it's spoken to many generations for over 50 years, may god bless bob dylan. >> rose: was he an influence. most definitely. i can tell you a story about the influence of bob dylan on the desire record in new jersey in the '70s. you have to go once a year with your parents to the state's car inspection station which in our community was located near the state prison and beyond the wall was ruben hurricane carter. and when i got "desire" and listened to a song about a man

named hurricane who was in that place and i had to sit in front of that place for hours on end after seeing scared straight and knowing that would happen, that was magic upon magic because this was talking about a man written by a man and telling me a story. yeah, he was a huge influence. >> rose: who else? the singer/song writer, performers. i was in a place where i loved the singer/songwriter and the performer. we're a mixture of everything, a product of our environment, whether the stones. >> rose: the pop at the time. sure. and had the guys of my era had the original van halen and journey not broken up in 1984, perhaps we would not have become as big as we had become and thank goodness for you. >> rose: created an opportunity for you. >> they sure did and we broke it. >> rose: how did you

characterize the band when you started? >> just a rock band. >> rose: just a rock band. certainly just a rock band. we definitely didn't want to be pigeon holed into anything. i have very few regrets but maybe one of them would be that my fourth album was called new jersey because no one ever compared us to anyone from new jersey before then. you know, we got lumped into being in those air bands in the '80s, but i kept thinking there's more to it. there's a bigger horizon. >> rose: is there any continent on the world that you don't tour? >> i have been to both places. out us we would play a paid toilet and use our own change, and he was right. >> rose: that's how much you wanted to play. >> yeah. >> rose: but you would rather be on stage than in the studio? >> no, not necessarily. the opposite. i would rather write a song. then when you write the song, you want to see it come to life. that's when you go out and share it. >> rose: but it comes to life with an audience. it doesn't come to life in the studio. >> it's a second life. it's a different life.

>> rose: you said, when you're on stage, after you've recorded this and you have performed it, that's when you take it and you say, here. here, it's yours. >> now it's yours. >> rose: right. you determine what the lyric means to you. >> rose: right. and then it takes on a different life. but hearing it come to life when the band counts off one, two, three, four, that, to me, is a time when they confirmed the notebook was worth something. that to me is the magic time. >> rose: is this a dark album? no, i don't think so. no, i think this is a -- >> rose: "this house is not for sale." where did you get the photograph? >> saw it in a magazine. every picture tells a story. i was thumb through a magazine innocently, the picture was taken in 1982 before the internet and photoshop and spoke volumes to nee. it was about the band. here's an old house, deep rotted, lots of history but it's in disarray, and it just spoke to me.

i started singing, these four walls have got a story to tell. >> rose: you say you have a lot to say and nothing to prove. >> yeah, i think so. i've certainly earned my place in this business. >> rose: where do you think your place is? >> well, we're very active -- >> rose: in rock and roll bands? >> no, i would never be that brazen. i don't think we try to sound like anything else. now when you hear a bon jovi record, it sounds like a bon jovi record. that's a goal. for a hundred years, i sad around and said, i want to sound like a stones record, until you get to the place where you say i want to sound like a bon jovi record. and that's where we are. >> rose: can you describe what that is. >> big optimistic, powerful choruses that are timeless and classic and can reach a lot of people from different walks of

life. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i'm going down >> rose: is there a theme, a center to this? >> yes, integrity and rebirth. >> rose: rebirth? yes, most definitely. there was a couple of things that happened to me in the last four years since the release of the last record. there's a member change in the band, richard left the band 20 shows into the last tour. i had a temporary falling out with my label after having been the longest tenured and biggest selling artist on the laicialtion but we came to terms and figured out a future. i was distraught over that. >> rose: you stayed with the label. >> with my label, the place i called home all these years. so once again, i was at a

crossroad and the answer was in the pen. after three years, i had something to say. >> rose: is this different because richie is not part of this? >> it's different because the personality is different, you know, but it certainly was going to go on. >> rose: the bon jovi sound is here but the lyrics -- >> not even the lyrics. i'm always going to guide it witwith regards. >> rose: how do you do write a song? >> me or you come in with an idea for a title, then you go back and forth, these chords or words sound better -- >> rose: with a guitar. sometimes a piano but oftentimes a guitar. very simple. >> rose: how did you do it with this? >> same. >> rose: did you sit there

alone or? >> several i wrote alone and several with john shanks. >> produced by john shanks and you mixed by michael brower. >> yes, new york guy. >> rose: it's very important. yes. to make sure that everything you got feels right, yeah. he was wonderful. >> rose: the opening lines of the title track say these four walls have got a tore to tell. the door is off the hinges. there is no wish in the well. >> yeah. >> rose: what do these lines mean? >> the four walls represent the members of the band. here's the history and everyone's going to have their viewpoint of what has happened on this rollercoaster. but as the song goes on, it says, this heart, this soul, this house is not for sale. and my integrity was, in fact, called into question, did richie have a fight with you, was this about money, no, no, no and no. >> rose: what was it about? he's got some things he had to deal with and that's for him to discuss at some time and place in his life, and then he's

decided not to do this anymore at this level, you know. it's unfortunate, but i promise you on your show, and said it publicly, there was a dispute and he never showed up. 20,000 tickets sold, 3:00 in the afternoon, my phone rang, guess what? oh, no. >> rose: did you expect it? no, it happened many times before. >> rose: but this is 20,000 people. >> four hours before show time, and we had to play that night. so the singer had to play a lot more guitar. i pulled it off and called the guy -- >> rose: the singer had to play a lot more guitar -- ( laughter ) >> he said he was in rehab. i said, can you come? there is a plane on the runway. phil was wonderful and has been there ever since. >> rose: he could just go right in. >> richie was in rehab and phil

came, and you can't stop a tour. there's people and families and record company counts on you. >> rose: one of the interesting thing is you do have a sense of business. >> true. >> rose: you really are. you think about owning an n.f.l. team. >> right. >> rose: you count among your friend some of the most successful business people around. >> thank you. >> rose: you enjoy their company. >> i do. >> rose: you know their language. >> well, i'm not 25 years old. >> rose: but my point is you have a sense that, you know, people are paying money for us to show up and we have to show up. >> well, that's most definitely the truth, but there is also that commitment to the people who work for you and their families and the record company and the promoter or the fan who works so hard to buy a ticket or your legacy. all of these things matter. you know, the cliche of 1970 and coming up the way i watch led zepplin come up was fun from afar or fun when i was 20.

but i gotta go to work, you know. just doesn't ring true anymore. >> rose: it's hard to keep a band together. >> it is. >> rose: they develop different ideas. >> it's a family and it's very difficult when you have marriages and kids and life goes on. >> rose: but the story i hear, and you would know more about this, is that, you know, nick and keith are always in conflict or competition. i don't know who it is that most wants to go on tour, but they get it together. >> i don't -- >> rose: and they do it. don't have the pleasure of knowing those gentlemen. i gotta tell ya, i would love to sit in a room with mick jagger. >> rose: what would the conversation be about? ( laughter ) what would you want to know? >> well, here's the first question, when in god's name are you going to quit so at least i know where the end zone is? let me just start this

conversation light. ( laughter ) just give me a at a and a date so i know where the end zone is, then the rest of it. but how does he do it and how has he done it for so long and how has he kept it together? they are, without question, my rock and roll band idols, without question. >> rose: because of longevity? longevity, the catalog of music, the performancability, how he kept it together. it's a band. they're not a solo artist, they're a band. >> rose: they really are. a shadow the line between the two. >> rose: very distinct personalities. >> most definitely. god bless them for it because they are the rolling stones. >> rose: do you look at yourself in the mirror and say you are one lucky s.o.b. because you get to do something that's demanding and challenging and requires all of your body and soul and brain and heart and everything about you in order to

do it, in order to keep it up, in order to go out there and make sure that people said -- say to you, bring it on, this is what i want? >> well, yeah, and you have to do the same, as does tom brady and your producer. you have to be ready to go to work and give your best every single day. >> rose: exactly. all i cared about and why i say i'm a lucky s.o.b. is i got to do what you wanted to do. >> rose: write music and perform. nted to do.tle boy, that's all i by 16 and 17 years old, there was no plan b, fortunately i was young enough and the drinking age was low enough. at 24 i got a record deal and sweat was off the brow because my folks didn't have to support me. >> rose: you built houses for people, supported people and that's what the foundation has done. >> yes. >> rose: and in significant numbers by the way. >> thank you. >> rose: you are a very wealthy man.

>> yes. >> rose: you want to buy an n.f.l. team. >> yeah. >> rose: you have been in pursuit of buying an n.f.l. team. >> yeah. >> rose: is it going to happen? how close has it come? >> we were on the doorstep. we had the wherewithal to do it. i haven't the issue. >> rose: so either with your own funds or partners. >> we're talking substantial numbers here, but we really did want very, very, very badly to buy the buffalo bills. didn't work out for me. >> rose: will it work out? do you see another opportunity? >> there is always going to be an opportunity. >> rose: once you get on the n.f.l.'s list, i assume you stay on the list. >> i don't know. we'll find out. when the opportunity arises, if -- >> rose: but you know owners too. >> i know many. >> rose: and they'll carry -- -- they'll vote. they've got a vote. >> most definitely. yes and no what. >> they don't have a vote. the team's for sale.

they don't have a vote in that. they can approve it. >> rose: in other words, whoever has the top dollar gets it. >> that's it. >> rose: why didn't you get the bills? >> we didn't have a chance to bid. it was a sealed bid and we were outbid. and god bless the guy who god it, good for him. >> rose: what else it about football? >> well, i love the game. my boys played it their whole chooldz. i have one that plays in high school and college. i've gotten camaraderie from it compounded by the fact that i felt i would bring something very unique to it. that was the allure to me. those 32 men and women are all very, very smart people, but i just think i bring something different to it. >> rose: so that you would be a very good owner? >> well, i don't know if i would be a very good owner, but i just

believe in it. >> rose: what something different do you think you would bring? >> i'm not giving all my tricks up on your show. but i have shared more than enough of them that i'm fortunate enough to be included in a lit bills with the league now and there are some things that i have been able to share with them that are great, exciting. >> rose: so you want to be part of the family. >> i would like that very much. ( laughter ) >> rose: much success with this. >> thank you. >> rose: "this house is not for sale," what a fabulous photograph. >> yeah. >> rose: and this is about within the band. >> yes. >> rose: the house is the band, the four members of the band. >> yeah. there is a great energy. i thank you. >> rose: pleasure to have you. thanks, charlie. >> rose: jon bon jovi. thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com.

♪ ♪ ♪ come on earth toll light house sphoat i will leave the porch light on ♪ ♪ i i will not live forever ♪ and it will never end ♪ we were just two strangers ♪ every word that you speak is a melody ♪ ♪ as we recite the songs of our lives ♪ ♪ everyone knows we don't want to go home ♪ ♪ but we can't stay here tonight ♪

♪ come on earth to my house ♪ let us make you feel at home ♪ come on earth to our house ♪ i will leave the porch light on ♪ ♪ all our wisdom at our table ♪ you can never stay too long ♪ come on earth to our house ♪ i will leave the porch light on ♪ captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ calories, calories, calories! >> wow, it rocked my world! >> it just kind of reminded me of boot camp. >> i don't know what you had, but what i had was great. >> it almost felt like country club food to me. >> don't touch. it's hot! >> i gotta tell you, you people are getting me all excited with all these d