>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. and this is a special thanksgiving weekend edition of "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, bridging a politically divided america. >> they've still got to believe leadership somehow, if it get mobilized can channel those fears and anxieties into a positive direction. it was just as bad in the industrial revolution. those changes were as big to those people as we're feeling now. >> rose: we will have that story and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: and so you began how? >> you know, it's the way we govern. >> rose: is it luck at all or is it something else? >> to have a little bit more control. >> rose: what is the object lesson here? >> the whole world is being affected. >> rose: tell me the ssks of the moment. we begin this week with a look at the news of the week. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days: an alleged isis plot stopped in new york. >> officials say the suspect actually tried to join isis overseas and then returned new york, expressing support in recorded conversations for an attack. >> rose: water cannons are turned on dakota pipeline protesters. >> hundreds of pipeline protesters tried to push back a blockaded bridge last night. at least one person was arrested. >> rose: a deadly school bus crash in chattanooga. >> almost three dozen students aged kindergarten to fifth grade were on board the bus when it crashed. >> our thoughts and our prayers

are out to the family expr the students who were involved. >> mr. trump's office has become the busiest employment office in the country. >> one thing that trump clearly enjoys is just the intrigue around this. >> breitbart is the alt-right platform. >> hail, trump! hail our people! hail victory! >> in a meeting with the "new york times," trump said, ," of course, i disavow and condemn them." >> conyay west has reportedly checked into a los angeles company can and is reportedly under observation. >> i mean, the majority, if not everybody in the grandstands were holding up a 7 wishing me luck. >> wow. >> there was a huge shift today. ♪ bird, bird, bid >> rose: america celebrates thanksgiving. >> the president is about to name the national bird and pardon both of them. >> congratulations! ( applause ) yay! ♪ bird, bird, bird, the word

>> rose: as we celebrate our first national holiday since the election, america remains with many challenges and in many cases deeply divided. so want question is where does the country go from here? i brought together a panel on the eve of the election to talk about just those questions. here are historian doris kearns goodwin, walter issacson of the apten institute, jeff greenfield of pbs, curt anderson of npr, and cokie roberts of abc news. >> i think if you ask the country, "do you want bipartisanship? do you want a cooperative political system?" the overwhelming majority will say yes. they even say yes, they'd like to see a new political party. but people also say they want to exercise more, watch documentaries and eat broccoli. ( laughter ) how they behave in the voting boothing has not yet borne that out. maybe there is-- there are people who i respect who do think at this point the

disaffection may be sufficient that some kind of new political force can emerge. >> that new political force is called women. yes, because women-- >> hooray! >> rose: how can women make a difference as leaders? >> they do, in legislative bodes, they do come together, and we have lots of data on this, much more than men do. >> rose: because they listen? >> because they cooperate with each other. they particularly do on issues having to do with women, children, and families, but on other issues as well. they talk to each other. they listen to each other, and they behave. >> rose: was it you, cokie, that once famously said that covering-- it's good you were the mother of a two-year-old because it helped you cover the senate. >> right. ( laughter ) >> well, the other thing that affects us-- >> i think cokie is right. look at the number of womens who vote are greater than men. the number of women graduating from college now are greater, going to med school and law

school. if the collaborative qualities women have shown meeting the demands of family and working life, et cetera, and if they get more into politics, maybe there is-- you've just given me another ripple of hope. i'm there. >> oh, good, doris, i'm glad. >> rose: the interesting thing as i travel around the world from china to europe to russia, they're all asking us, "what's gone wrong in america?" that's the question. >> there's something jeff said early they're resonated with me, it was once said, history is about change, those who resist it and those who like it. the resistance to modernity, all the way through to the muslim world, europe, and now the united states is a major trend of the 21st century. >> but it's -- >> the resistance to modernity? >> you know, globalism -- >> but beyond radical islamism? >> cosmopolatism-- >> i think brexit is part of it. >> rose: globalism. >> a lot of it has to do with

technology. and the fact that the whole world is being affected by technology at the same time. and, you know, it's like the industrial revolution where everybody had to leave the farms and go to the cities or go across the ocean, and everything that they had done was no longer valued. home manufacture, particularly, which, of course, was women's work. and it was-- it was incredibly disruptive to use the modern term. and that's what's happened with technology. and so with people not having the kinds of jobs they used to have, not having the kinds of lives they used to have, and combine that with the cultural changes and the demographic changes, they look and around say, "i don't recognize my life." >> i actually-- >> but, you see -- >> hold on doirs, i'll get to you. one second. >> in an effort to find some opt mitch a few months ago i asked one of the key economic players in obama's first term, "i'm giving you a magic wand.

what do you do with the 50-year-old displaced steel worker?" and what he said is, "i can't do anything for that person. his kids i can do something with if we had an apprenticeship program, use the community colleges the way they do in germany other and places, i can do something. but people in late middle aged who have been displace read going to have lives less-- lesser than they had because the new jobs-- and he was very candid about this, he said if you want to tell a displaced 55-year-old displaced worker you're going toon a home health >> what is the responsibility of government to that person? >> it's a lot. but the first thing they have had to figure out is that guy right or are there some things you actually can do beyond the pieties of retraining. one of the things the democratic party owns is for 25 years they've been telling these people, "yeah you have lost your job in the steel industry, but we'll retrain you." >> no, it's a big cultural

challenge -- >> parent of that is because of technology. >> it's all technology. >> rose: the displacement, but also you've got to learn skills that have to do with-- that you're not familiar. >> and there may be fewer jobs. we have not faced that aspect of technology and auto missation. we have not discussed this in a political way, not that the machine overlords are going to take over, but this time it may be different, that the-- >> we don't have any data point that show that, though. it's amazing-- >> can we look back -- >> let walt finish. i know you can't see it so it's hard. >> the exact right question but what always surprised me is that there are more and more jobs and we've seen this in the numbers recently -- >> but are they jobs people are trained for? >> no, i think there's a displacement-- >> manufacturing jobs-- >> the number of jobs ever since weaving machines came in, in the 1840s, people have been saying there would be unemployment. and we're not seeing it this year. >> i know, and i hope that's correct. it may be different this time. >> rose: full employment.

>> to who jeff was saying, the next generation, the children, the sons of the manufacturing workers who are displaced need to be convinced and it's a great cultural challenge to do so, that being a nurse is not a woman's job solely. >> rose: doris. let me get doris in. >> i just wanted to follow up what cokie said because i think the industrial revolution does give us a parallel to some of the fears we have today. i mean, think of it then, as you said, people are moving from the farms to the city. lots of immigrants are coming in from abroad. the pace of life has sped up so much people feel we don't even know the country anymore, all this technological change has taken place with telephones and telegraphs. and yet eventually-- there was populism and anxiety and demagogues as a result of all that. and yet, eventually, that got channeled into the progressive part of the republican party and teddy roosevelt, and change took place in a rational way, and things began to feel better. so now we've got very similar situation with the technological revolution, with the

globalization, with people feeling the country's changing beyond what it want to see it doing, fear of all that. they've still got to believe that leadership somehow, if it gets mobilized, can channel those fears and anxieties into a positive direction. we did it-- it was just as bad at the industrial revolution. those changes were as big to those people as the changing we're feeling are to us now. and yet we somehow manage to move through it. >> i agree with that. >> i still think -- >> when was that? >> late 19th century, beginning of the 20th century. look, there were strikes in the cities. there were riots in the cities purpose there were hunger strikes. there are marches. the unions were just beginning to make their way felt. and there was lots of immigration and lots of resistance to immigration coming in from abrawld. and people were losing their whole sense of belonging to themselves on a farm. the gap between the rich and the poor had suddenly emerge people are seeing millionaires where before the richest people were some doctors on hills in your farm town. it was hugely disoriented and disrupting and somehow got channeled through leadership,

through the party structure, into positive form and we're feeling again. >> you sort of have to live through it. so you get, you know, the next generation and the next generation and i really do think that's the big hope-- >> which leads to another hopeful data point. if you look at all the polling that goes on, people under 45, and essential people under 35 and 30, this great polarization between "i can't deal with modernity and the new face of america and i can," is not there. >> we're also talking about a majority minority population. that is a huge change. i mean, i lived in mongomry county, maryland. it used to be the whitest of white suburbs and it's now minority majority. you have a very different america for young people. >> so put this on the the table as well because, you know, one of the things that i have actually sympathy for the political classes, the nature of what they're dealing with. so you start with the mobilization leading up to world war ii.

starting in 1940 through 1973, '74. we had the greatest economic expansion and growth broadly ever. i think annual growth was 4% a year. so if you came out of that world, everything was better every year. you know, the christmas club, you put some more money in. you know, the home was affordable. >> if you were a white man. >> granted, there were people left out. absolutely. but that partly is why we're talking about that disaffected class. since 1975, i think the annual growth rate over the last four years has been much more like 2%. and how does a political leadership talk to a disaffected group when in fact what are you going to tell them if you are honest is, "we can't have that again." >> rose: but, it's also why they have a new term called "the new normal." it's not going to be 4%. nobody thinks it's going to be 4% in the near future. >> basically in 1974-- you picked that date-- it's when two

things happened-- personal computers come into existence and basically the internet starts to spread, the networking of things. not only do you have a slower growth rate but for some people it's really, really good but for some people it's bad. >> that's what i meant at the beginning and the thing you were talking about, around the world, between the people riding this new world, and i would think to be candid, pretty much everybody in this conversation is comfortable with this new world. and people who have felt overwhelmed. >> and we haven't talked about what this election cycle has done to and within the republican party. now, are these fissures that will be papered over quickly or a major coming apart. speaking of globalization, the issue of trade. until five minute ago the republican party was the free trade party. >> as was hillary clinton. >> as was hillary clinton, exactly. >> afs was every president since herbert hoover. >> and what now? how does the reconsolidating

republican establishment in the legislature and elsewhere, how do they feel about trade now? how do they feel about free trade or trade deals? it's unclear. >> rose: all the conversation cans about trade go to the question of jobs. those people against trade are believing that trade and trade as it is practiced today means a-- means the loss of jobs. >> except for new orleans. >> except when you talk about the people comfortable with modernity, into technology. they realize their jobs come from being part of a global market. e fastest growing part ourare-- economy. >> but they don't say, "i can buy cheap stuff at walmart now, so i'm happy to have no job." >> right, right, but it was about immigration, trade. >> rose: and sort of the idea of globalization. >> but that's the other place the republican party has got to figure itself out is on immigration. what trump has done in terms of alienating hispanics might just bury the republican party. i mean, we've seen this

incredible, wonderful turnout of hispanics in the last-- over the early voting period. >> rose: it is the significant factor in this election. >> and we expect tomorrow is will also be very high. >> rose: latinos. >> this is the right reaction to somebody being offensive to you-- go vote and go say, "i'm going to, with my vote, show you what i think about that." >> and how long do you think it will take-- >> and you look at 2012 when the republican party understood, it seemed, that they had to break out and reach out to the immigrants because that's future. and then somehow this took it away from it right now. >> how long-- >> i'm sorry. >> rose: go ahead, doris. >> i can make one other point? it was said before montgomery county used to be all white and is now more diverse. the more we get people living in diverse areas, the more that they brush up against fellow citizens, the more they are willing, as we've seen, soopen

up acceptance to gays and lesbians in a way that they hadn't before. it's because they know them. thee see them. then the whole brexit idea, people were living in place where's the others were the others, and as we become more diverse, as we're seeing in florida, north carolina, and other states you have to hope somehow that desire and that fear of the other will lessen. and that's always been the critical thing about america. >> maybe what we need is a new land grant program like lincoln established where you take millennials and movie their coffee house houses and bookstos into these rural areas, instead of 160 acres give them low-interest loans. >> give them starbucks. >> that's actually not crazy. >> rose: we are look, at populism in europe and in china where there is a great tension between urban and rural and the the people from the rural areas want to come into the urban areas to find a job. you have party control there and more state control there. but they have some of the same kind of tensions. >> you know, the interesting thing is when things happen like

this globally, and then you get sort of this yearning for the outsider. and even-- i've read the bully pulpit and love it-- there some ways teddy roosevelt facing this exact same type of period, almost does it as an outsider talking about a square deal for the american people. and that's where i think something that donald trump may have done for us which is maybe outsiders, especially very wealthy outsiders, can, you know-- a howard schultz, whatever-- can say, "why not me? why not me? and it could possibly open the way to new people coming in. >> i think politically that is a really important point. for some reason, i went back and read a once-faims play called "state of the union," and the hero of that, spenlser tracy, is a businessman. he built the airplanes that won world war ii and they want him to run for president and he winds up saying, "i paid for this microphone. i'm not going to speak your cliches." but the idea of an outside who are bothered to inform him or

herself of the issues and reached across party lines and talked in a way-- that's the aaron sorkin fantasy, but there's something to. >> bring people together than divide. >> rose: is that where ronald reagan composite that phrase? you remember in new hampshire-- >> maybe it was a hell of a coincidence. i don't know. ( laughter ) but the point of it is, i think walter is exactly right, the impulse-- i thought in some ways the whole trump phenomenon was a hollywood liberal fantasy turned on its head-- >> it's warren battaliony's 1998 film. >> it's speaking truth to power in a way no rational person might recognize as truth. but there is something about that impulse that drove him as close as he may have gotten to this job. >> actually, it is a quite wonderful american moment to think about that. whatever happens, we're making history here. and the notion that somebody can come from the outside with every newspaper in the country, with the exception of two-- well, if

you count the ku klux klan three-- against him -- >> and be close at the end. >> and all of the intelligencia of conservative writers and all of that -- >> against. >> against him. and the former presidents of the republican party, and all of that, and still be so revered and so close to being president, if not president, i think that tells you something about -- >> what does that tell jew it tells you american-- the people actually do govern. the people rule. >> and there is a yearning for an outsider. >> and a democracy is maybe not all it's cracked up to be displt question was-- >> i'm sorry, go ahead. i was pointing out, that you took donald trump in a different form, you had something really special. like someone i know said about her late husband, we could have had a great life if only he had been a completely different person." ( laughter ) in some sense with trump, there's wisdom there.

>> rose: actually, donald trump has always said, look, i didn't create this movement. this movement there was and i went and enabled them to sort of see something in me as their spear carrier. >> there is no question people feel that the political system has let them down. a lot of people who support immediate trump. and it has. i mean, it hasn't answered the needs of a lot of those people. and yet, i still-- i just worry about the idea that we need to look outside. i mean, why can't we hope that somebody who cares about politics and has been a state legislator and maybe been in the military and comes in to public office, that the political system can produce the people we want. otherwise, we're just undoing the idea that politics is an honorable vocation. i still worry about looking as an outsider. i think we have to look at somebody hocares about politics but comes out-- maybe comes from a military background -- >> is it a belief in public service rather than simply seeing politics as a way for ego

aggrandizement? >> exactly so. and maybe they've been in public service in a different way than just in politics or electoral office. but at least they believed in doing that. i still oong and i remember, cokie, you said this a long time ago, that the fact people are not going into public service and politics now who were in the military in the same numbers they were after world war ii and the korean war means we don't have that sense of a common mission that people have alreadia accomplished by being in the military, that they're bringing into public life. maybe there's national service that has to happen. there are things we can can do. we just can't give up with of on that and i don't think we can give up on the political system and just hope for some white horse guy to come in. >> rose: it's always leadership, isn't it, doris it may come president ground up, but in the end it's somebody who has new ideas and grabs of reins of leadership. >> but the followers have to let them lead. >> rose: exactly. >> have we been in a time before when leadership has been challenged so viscerally and

immediately? that's what i was talking about, about f.d.r.'s, you know, first days. when everybody said, "come on. we've got to pull together because we're in trouble." even going back-- just one small example. so the bitterest supreme court fight we had in my memory was clarence thomas, 1991. 55 democrats in the senate. >> bork. >> i think worse than bork. here's the one thing the democrats never even thought about, filibustering. it wasn't done. and they could have easily knocked that nomination upon but at this time, 25 years ago, the thought of using that weapon in that way was literally unthinkable. and now, you know, it's the way we govern, or don't govern. >> but there are so many things we have discovered in this cycle and lately, since then, oh, that wasn't done yet. it wasn't-- it wasn't unconstitutional. it wasn't legally impermissible, but that wasn't done. as so much of what has been said in this presidential campaign. well, that's just not done. and we have-- we have stepped

over so many lines in that way. >> you know, i always hate to put too rosy a glass on the past, you know. there were lots of things that were done. in fact, the house of representatives used to be able to filibuster, and on the water of 1812 they were filibustering against the war of 1812, and the only way it ended was when someone threw a spittoon across the room and made an enormous noise and probably was thoroughly disgusting and everybody stopped talking-- >> the war of 1812. >> rose: let me ask you this. go ahead, doris. are we witnessing parallel to what we're finding in our politics-- i'll preface this by saying in a conversation with president obama i quoted him as saying we have the finest military, the best economy, we have the best science, we have the best technology, but all of that may not get us there because our politics are so broken. >> one of my favorite

journalists, james fallows, a couple years ago, was looking at the issue, are we in decline, most institutions are strong and can fix this, but our political system is the single biggest impediment to moving on. >> rose: the academy is strong. military is strong. >> it would be helpful -- >> business is strong. >> well, i have a loat of faith in the young people. i think the young people can come in and-- and fix this. >> women and young people. >> yes, women and young people. you all can go home. ( laughter ) >> rose: we'll all be on the island. >> because they are so diverse. and that's way the country always refuse itself is three wonderful waves of immigration, of people coming in from everywhere and with new ways of looking at things and a deep affection for this country that they feel very strongly about. and i think that's our great hope.

>> rose: here is a look at the week ahead. sunday is the abu dhabi grand prix. monday is the day congress returns from its thanksgiving recess. tuesday is the day the world's oldest living person celebrates her 117th birthday. wednesday is the 84th annual rockefeller center tree lighting in new york city. thursday is the day the nominations are announced for the critics choice awards. friday is the 36th annual john lennon tribute. saturday is the annual running of the sanities in baltimore, boston, and chicago. and here is what's new for your weekend: the weknd releases a new album. the annual hollywood christmas parade steps off on hollywood bfl oboulevard on sunday.

and warren beatty, lily collins, matthew broderick and annette ben regular in theaters with the romantic comedy "rules don't apply." >> well, hello! >> that's marlin may havey. >> what the hell is she doing here? >> you said you wanted the girl with the two ends? >> yes, marilyn monroe! >> ah! >> rose: that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. from all of us here, we hope you've had a great thanksgiving with loved ones and family. i'm charlie rose. we'll see you again next time. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by:

>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight a conversation with mikhail khodorkovsky. >> my opinion is that putin has already worked out that model that he would like to use with donald trump. he worked it out on berlstoni. he's going to look for some kind of personal understanding, personal relations along the lines of like here we are you and i way on top altogether just the two of us and everybody else is somewhere there below us. i'm not sure whether the american political system could