>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose and the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, donald trump and the transition. john glenn remembered. and director kenneth lanbegan's tale of tragedy and renewal. it's called "manchester by the sea." >> you know, he can always stay with us if he wants to come up weekends. >> do you want to be his guardian? >> well-- >> he doesn't want to be my guardian, for christ's sake. >> we're trying to lose some kids at this point. >> no, i'm trying to work out the logistics. >> jesus christ, will you stop. >> any time he wants. you know that. >> that's all right. i know that. >.>> rose: we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen.

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: is it luck at all or is it something else? what's the object lesson here? >> it's so different from the national mainstream. >> rose: heal me the significance of the moment. thiss of the week the syrian army recaptured the old city of aleppo. donald trump was named "time" magazine's "person of the year." and beyonce led the field with nine grammy nominations for "lemonade." here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. >> john glenn, space pioneer, patriot, and politician, has passed away. >> oh, that view is tremendous!

>> if you're capable of it, and you're physically able to do these things, why not go for it. >> godspeed, john glenn. >> rescue teams in indonesia are searching the rubble for survivors following an earthquake that destroyed dozens of buildings. >> the plane that crashed in pakistan was reportedly on fire before hitting the side of a mountain. officials say there were no survivors. >> with a huge majority, south coria's parl voted to impeach the president. >> russian and american military experts will discuss pulling militants out of aleppo. >> investigators still searching for answers in the horrific fire in oakland. >> in the time it took me to get on my coat and my shoes the entire wall was on fire. >> a victory for protesters. the u.s. army corps of engineers is refusing to let the dakota pipeline cross the river. >> president obama has ordered a full review into the allegations the russians tried to influence the 2016 election.

>> donald trump again what he is calling a thank you tour of the country. trump is holding victory rallies in all the places that helped get him elected, like ohio, pennsylvania, russia, the f.b.i., wikileaks, and hillary's campaign headquarters. ( laughter ) >> it'sin it's going to be quita star-studded grammy once again. a lot of good music this year. >> air force none. the president-elect says cancel the order for new presidential planes. ♪ baby we were born to run >> had man bolt out on to the tarmac of san francisco international airport. he eventually got tired and officers caught him ♪ i want to rock with you >> nordstrom is getting some confused looks for its latest christmas gift option. it is selling a rock in a leather pouch for 85 bucks ♪ gonna rock the night away >> rose: we begin this week with politicians and the trump transition. the president-elect's cabinet continues to take shape, even as

donald trump makes a victory tour of the country. joining me now for a look at the new trump team and the selection process is mike allen. after a long career at politico and playbook, mike has a new gig. he is the cofounder of a new digital news site. s it called axuous, which i understand in greek means worthy. >> charlie, this is a treat. thank you for the support over the years. we'll be launching around inauguration day with the best coverage of business, tech, media disprendz politics. so we'd love to have you along for the ride. >> rose: let's begin with the transition. tell me what it tells you about how president-elect trump might govern as president trump. >> well, charlie, you've been covering is every morning and evening. you've been watching this amazing drama that's playing out, and it tells us that this is going to be a fascinating, colorful, very public west wing. charlie, as you know from having covered them, transitions

usually pretty secretive, pretty quiet. here, you have literal contestants for these jobs being summoned to trump tower, coming in before the cameras, sometimes speaking to cameras on the way out, and it apparently doesn't hurt you to go on tv to make the case for yourself, which, of course, with some past presidents would have been a sign to get shown the door. so what we're seeing is that as long as trump is in control, as long as people don't cross him, he's happy to have his advisers out there talking-- making their own cases. his potential appointees out there, people have called the "apprenticization" of the transition. >> rose: it's clearly good, i would think, to have a president who takes an interest and who wants to talk to these people one to one over a series of conversations rather than have someone else do it. >> some of the people thought they were going to see convenient pence or maybe going

in to see reince priebus, steve bannon or one of the aides and there's trump. we talked to somebody who got a phone message from the president-elect, and called back expecting to get an aide. it was donald trump answered the phone himself. so very involved. we now, charlie, about 13 people who have been announced in this-- for cabinet-level jobs. we have four billionaires, three generals, two hispanics, one african american, and i guess a partridge in a pear tree. >> rose: yes, at christmastime. the other interesting fact is he evidently is having a lot of conversations with the president of the united states, barack obama. and even as he says, consulting with obama. and the president-elect says, "i really like him. i admire him" different from what he said during the campaign. the president was very critical of him during the campaign. but they seem to have a

pragmatic relationship, understanding they have differences, but being-- but having conversations that are very constructive for the president-elect. >> and there couldn't be a better teacher. 32 been a lot of conversation this week-- and this is something, charlie that authentically surprised me-- the fact that president-elect trump has been getting an average of one intelligence briefing a week. he could get much more. he has only made time for that, which is fewer than many of his recent predecessors. but i guess if you're talking to president obama, you feel like you're getting the ultimate tutor in how to run the world. >> rose: joining me now senator john mccain. you announced today cyber-security is going to be a

major oversight priority of the senate armed services committee which you chair. why are you making that announcement today? >> well, obviously, the-- one of the issues-- situations that has brought this situation to a boil is the allegations of russian interfering not only in our elections but in other elections around the world. that undermines, obviously, the fundamentals of democracy if there's-- if they're able to succeed. >> rose: do you believe that you have a different point of view than president-elect trump on this, who has tended to downplay the idea that it might have been the russians? >> every expert that i've talked to says it was the russians, and that's unclassified. but everyone i've talked to said the russians have played a very major role. but not just in elections, charlie. they are every day bombarding some of our industrial bases, particularly the military industrial complex. they are bombarding our

communications systems. i mean, it's just a fact is what they're doing. >> rose: as it has annually since 1927, "time" magazine announced the "person of the year" this week. this time, it's the individu who, for better or worse, had the most influence on the events of the year. president-elect donald trump might be the obvious choice, but the nation remains divide over why. with me is nancy gibbs, the managing editor of "time." i am pleased to have her back at this table. you have always framed this as the person who has the most influence. >> yes. >> rose: it is not the most popular. it is not anything other than the most influence. this is a slam-dunk, isn't it? >> it is, although, who interesting to me is the whole thick is is who has had the most influence on the year for better or worse. >> rose: right. >> there's what seems like universal agreement that he the most influence and disagreement

over whether it was for better or for worse. in presidential election years, it would be a little unusual for someone other than the newly elected president to have been the dominant fig that you are year. and-- and in any presidential year, the country is divided. you know, roughly half the country votes for one and the other. there is something that feels different this year, at least from where i sit, of the-- the level of surprise at the outcome-- and that's a lot of the challenge that the president-elect, i think, faces. he talks about wanting to bring the country together. i think even he acknowledges that that represents a pretty significant challenge. >> rose: he certainly was pleased by the decision, wasn't he? >> he was. you know, and it's complicated for us that he talks about it as an honor, and we have run into that for years that, you know, it sounds like the kinds of things that people honor people with at the end of the year. and we always have said, you know, look, this is a measure of influence. what's remarkable about donald trump that we have not seen before is somebody who-- who

comes in and deifies all expectations, breaks all the rules, shatters every sort of norm and convention for how you run for president, defeated not one but both major political parties on hez way to winning and did it -- >> and defeeted two dynasties. >> and did it with largely based on his own instincts not a huge cadre of political advisers and pollsters, not with the help of the republican party, infrastructure in particular, or the donor class. you know, the enormous army of people who are usually around a winning presidential candidate, and taking some responsibility for the victory. there's-- there's nothing like this in donald trump's case. he has, you know, a small caught ray of advisers and his kids and it's him. >> rose: you interviewed him before. you interviewed him with the eagle and all that. and then you go back a week ago?

how was he? was he different in any way perceptively? >> i would be the first to say that there's-- there's every chance that because i expected that he would be different that i saw a difference. but i did see a difference. the main one being-- the thing that struck me so much-- you know, i'm very interested in the relationship between presidents because of what that job does to you. and the-- the night before we spoke to him, he had been on the phone for 45 minutes with president obama again. , talking to him about ideas for his cabinet choices, and other topics that were on his mind. and he spoke with extraordinary warmth and respect. he talked about the chemistry he felt between them. and, you know, in listening to him talk, particularly, about his conversations with president obama, you-- you start to see a glimpse that he is-- is having to get his head around what has just happened.

>> rose: the 59th annual agreement award nomination were released this week. adele and beyonce led the way, each receiving nods for album, song, and record of the year. the biggest surprise came with the nomination for country singer sturgill simpson for album of the year. bryan hyatt is senior writer at "rolling stone" magazine. >> i think one of the things we're seeing is the grammys had taken heat for so many years being totally distant from what people saw the center of pop culture, and now it feels like they're right there in the white heat of it it, to the point of nominated justin bieber. >> rose: adele, work from rihanna, featuring drake, and is it between adele and beyonce?

>> nailed it. it's a really interesting thing. it's going to be-- i think that's probably the distinguishing factor of this year's grammys is that you've never had such a head-to-head battle for a while between two artists who are similar in some ways, very different in other ways. but the funny thing is they're huge mutual fans of each other. >> rose: album of the year: and "a sailor guide to earth" by sturgill simpson. >> isn't he great. >> rose: he is great. people i know who know music would include you in that. just been singing his praise. ♪ and long after i'm gone i'll still be around ♪ >> he's fantastic. i mean, it's funny, i thought his previous record was probably even better, but you can't pick the moment that they get the-- and i'm just happy for him because i think he's a fantastic talent and just sort of-- as you know, out of nowhere because he's such an old soul and combined so many interesting influences and he's so cool and

he's so different from the national mainstream. he's a true dark horse candidate in that category. >> rose: but, again, is it between adele and beyonce, between "25" and "lemonade?" >> yes, but sometimes you never know with the grammys. sturgill is about as unlikely as donald trump winning the republican nomination. anything could happen. but it certainly, logically speaking, is between adele and beyonce. and i think it is-- adele has had her grammy recognition. i think a the love people are going to feel it's beyonce's time. >> rose: song of the year "formation," beyonce. >> yeah, yeah. >> rose: "hello" adele. >> the difference between record of the year and song of the year, and i've said this is sort of the time of the year when people like me have to explain what the difference is between record of the year and song of the year. and the difference is, as you may know, song of the year is the underlying composition. whereas record of the year is the actual recording. so one way of thinking might be that they honor "hello" by adele

for sofnght year. because it's more of like a song-song. there's more of a kind of underlying composition. you could cover it in a lot of different ways. you could do, you know, an acoustic version or rock version. whereas formation is a honored record and it's absolutely fantastic. it's one of those honored records where the composition is so deeply embedded in the production. it's more of a record of the year type song, whereas "hello" is more song of the year type song. so i wouldn't be surprised if they end up splitting it that way. >> rose: kenneth lanar began's film is a homecoming tale. it stars casey affleck forced to return to his home town becoming the legal guardian of his teenaged nephew. it is called "manchester by the

sea." >> i like the tremendous effort the characters are making to do the right thing by each other, even though they're carrying this emotional burden around. casey's character is so stricken by what's happened to him, and he's still, every step of the way, doesn't of the to just take care of his nephew but take care of him properly. he doesn't start out wanting to have a personal relationship with him. he just wants to get him set up. the premise of the movie is that casey's brother dies and he's given guardianship of his nephew, which he doesn't want. but that part's very obvious in the story, but what's not so obvious sometimes is how he refuses to just send the kid away. like he could easily send him to relatives in minnesota. he could send him back to his mother who is very troubled and problematic, but he's sticking g it out as best he can. >> rose: when lee left manchester, what was his state of mind?

>> devastated. i mean, i don't know how much of the story you want to give away on the show. >> rose: not too much. >> he's left town because of an unspeakable tragedy and his life is essentially destroyed. and i think if it were up to him, he'd just go. but his brother is not well. he has congestive heart failure, a chronic, deteriorating condition, and requires help taking care of his kid and just genuinely needs help and goes an hour and a half away so he can be on hand if needed and he goes into a monastic existence in quincy, a town south of boston. >> rose: and then he gets the note to come back. >> and he comes back-- and it's implied in the story and it was in screenplay he comes back periodically, when joe has to be hospitalized and he discusses-- he comes back to take care of the kid when there's no one else to do it. he's been in touch but detached himself completely from the family from the town he grew up. >> rose: what kinds of stories do you like to tell? >> i like telling stories about

people who are dealing with things that are too big for them. >> rose: like grief. >> grief, the weight of other people's requirements, the fact that the world never does what you meant it to do. death. other people generally, institutional difficulties, difficulties with lawyers, difficulties with doctors, difficulties with the law. this movie has a lot-- this movie, believe it or not, has a lot of laughs in it. and i like-- i like humor just as much as anything else. and i like to put humor in everything i do. , yothat scene we just saw is py melancholy but there's quite a lot of humor in the movie. casey is funny, lucas is funny, and c.j. wilson-- >> casey said kenny never writes without some humor. he's funny. it doesn't undermine the drama.

it might make the tragedy felt even more. >> i think so. i hope so. i think, you know, my goal, my goal is to have it seem like it could be real or that it is real and if it's going to feel real, it's gog have some humor in it. >> rose: an american hero, john glenn, died this week. he was 95. much of his life was lived in the public eye, and most of it was spent in public service. he was a decorated fighter pilot in world war ii and korea. his wing man was the greet baseball player ted williams. he was the first american to orbit the earth. he was the oldest man to ever go into space, explaft surviving member of the original nasa astronauts. and finally, he was a distinguished senator from ohio, where he served four terms.

i spoke with him most recently at an event in ohio last year. he was also a guest at my table in 1999. to the end, john glenn remained a fierce advocate for space exploration. >> here we are, supposed to be the world's greatest space-farring nation, according to words used by president kennedy at what time, and i think we do have the best basic background in this area. but we cannot go to space, we cannot put a single pilot in space. we have to go today, we go and pay the russians $65 million per astronaut to send our people over to there, and they put them on a soyuz, and send them up into space and take them up to our space station, our international space station, that we made an international station voluntarily. we asked the other people it to

join us on this. we've been very good about sharing this kind of information and research. and the reason that president bush gave back at that time was he wanted to concentrate on the moon and then on to mars, and there wasn't money to do it at that time, and that the-- each space launch of the station back-- or of the shuttle-- the total cost of that was estimated somewhere around $400 million. a lot of money. it's expensive. it is. >> rose: $400 million. >> $400 million. that's for all the expenses you could put together that had to be there before you could get the-- go up into space on the-- take the shuttle and run the research that we ran on the shuttle. the shuttle flight i was on in '98, we had 83 different research projects on that one flight. and so it's expensive to do. that's true. but in my view, in the long term

for our nation, it was more expensive not to do it. >> rose: but you know the argument, the argument is it's all about national pride and it's not about what we've learned in space. >> well, i know that argument, but i disagreed with it. and after president obama was elected, i got an appointment with him, and went and talked to him, and his principal science adviser and o.m.b. director in the oval office. and we talked for about 35 our 40 minutes, and i gave him all the reasons i felt and the results-- the scientific advances we had made because of the station and the research impetus this had, had, and the example this has set for our yuck people who, by the millions were more interested in math and science now which was great for the future and all the others. he he didn't disagree way single thing i said. he agreed with everything i said except he said with this

impending recession that we have, we just don't have the money to do it. and much as he would like to do it, he couldn't do it. >> rose: there's an unusual art exhibit showing at the abrams art center here in new york. it is called "on the inside." it is a collection of works created by the l.g.b.t.q. community inside new york's prison system. the curator is tatyana von furstenberg. >> we're at the abrams art center, 466 grant center. it's part of an old settlement founded on the idea of inclusion. it's the perfect partner for this show because these artists need to be included back into

society. "on the inside "is a show of l.g.b.t.q. artists who are currently incarcerated right now. these artists identify first and foremost as artists, then as l.g.b.t.q. people, human beings. this is their souls expressing who they actually are. my idea was to basically put an ad in the back of the paper and ask for art and this happened. ♪ ♪ so these are, like, "i'm strong, i'm sexy, i'm so incredibly hot." and then over here we have more reflective still strong, resilient self-portraits of, but of a more reflective kind. the first piece that i got was jesus holding a black sheep. it struck me really hard because we have to love and care for people with differences. we have to be radically hospitable and be more inclusive

of all different kinds of people. my two favorite quotes are "don't curse and condemn the enigma. embrace and understand the mystery." and requested admireaise remove the veil for all of the universe to see." what i really hope thateb sees is that there is talent. there's complexity. there's poetry. there is humanity behind bars. you never know who anybody is until you really get to know them. >> rose: that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. from all of us here, thank you for watching. i'm charlie rose. we'll see you again next time. >> rose: funding for "charlie brought to you in part by:

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