>> rose: welcome to the program. as 2016 comes to a close, we take this time to look back on some of our favorite programs of the year. tonight, for the hour, an encore conversation with tiger woods. how do we measure the best to ever play golf? is it jack simply because he has 18 majors, or is it some general appraisal simply that that person had more talent and applied it better than anybody? >> that's a great question. it is so hard because we never had a chance to play against one another except one time and played with each other in 2000. when you cross generations, it's difficult to see who's better than each other, in all sports, but i just think that, for me, i

would take my skills up against jack any day and i'm sure he would feel the same way. >> rose: do you believe you will get 18 pages? >> to be honest with you, no. >> rose: you don't? no. >> rose: you've accepted that? i've accepted i'm going to get more. ( laughter ) >> rose: an encore presentation of my conversation with tiger woods for the hour, next. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: tiger woods is here. he is considered one of golf's

greatest players, if not at his best the best. in 1997, at age 21, he won his first major tournament at the masters by a record 12 strokes. he was previously the only male to win three straight u.s. amateur titles with a total of 14 major championships under his belt, he trails only jack nicholas who has 18. in recent years, he has been side reasoned by injure including three back surgeries. tiger delayed his return to competitive golf to this month stating my game is vulnerable and not where it needs to be. this year markets the 20t 20th anniversary of the tiger woods foundation, focusing on youth education and intends to double the number of students attending college through its scholarship this year. pleased to have tiger woods at this table for the first time. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: we have been trying for this for a long time, so i thank you. >> absolutely. thank you. >> rose: this has been an

interesting several weeks for you. there was the ryder cup. you were instrumental, according to patrick reed, you were with him on the course and says you were with him in his head. you announced a new company tgr involved in live events, restaurants and golf course management, other things. >> right. >> rose: you celebrated the 20th anniversary of the foundation. you announced you would play in the safeway tournament and then withdrew saying your body was okay, saying that your golf was vulnerable. >> mm-hmm. >> rose: what did you mean? well, charlie, before the ryder cup, i was playing and able to shoot scores and able to play at home, then took time off during the ryder cupp and was focused on that. and i never quite got my scoring around, and i was so excited to play. i wanted to compete.

i went out to stanford right before safeway and was practicing out there, we were with the team and hanging out with them, and really working on my game, and it's a hard realization knowing that, you know, i'm not scoring like i should be. my feel for hitting, you know, 150-yard 7-irons and taking stuff off it or jumping on a 9-iron and hitting the correct distance, shaping shots, all that stuff, i kind of lost the feel of that and, trust me, as a competitor, i was ready to go, i wanted to compete, i wanted to compete, but in my heart of hearts, i knew i couldn't shoot 63s and 64s and, trust me, as a competitor, it doesn't feel very good. >> rose: as the greatest iron player in the history of the game to take a 7-iron or to take a wedge and not be able to do what you know you have done before, what you have felt

before, what does it feel like? >> well, it was more the feel of hitting those shots because i haven't done it enough, and i was in a groove playing at home. i took the time off with the ryder cup, and trying to come back after that, i just didn't quite have the same feel. i thought i would pick it up right away. i was ready to compete and go, and, man, it's tough knowing that i see a shot and i can kind of feel it but it's not quite there yet. if it's not quite there yet, you've waited over a year to get back to this point, let's be smart about it and not rush it. that's from my brain saying that to me, but my heart is saying, tiger, let's play, let's go. come on, let's get back into it. >> rose: have you come back before when you think now it's too early? >> i've done it so many times either through surgeries or injuries, i've played through them, come back early, i've damaged the body to compete at a

high level so many times, and this time i took a lot of time off to get it right, and there's no sense in hurrying and injuring myself anymore or shaping the shots and getting the feel for it. i want to do it right at the same time and have it come together. at safeway, i thought i was ready for it, and i wasn't. i thought, take a step back, you've waited this long, there's no sense in the urgency of doing it again, make sure your stuff is ready and when it is, you will know. >> rose: and you will know. oh, yeah, i'll know. >> rose: but jasper and others have said, i've played with him and, boy, he's back to being amazing. i mean, have you had those kinds of rounds? >> as i've said, i've done that at home and knowing that i have to do it in a scoring environment on a pga tour and shooting the same scores once we get home, the mid to low 60s and then doing that again, i wasn't quite ready for it yet.

and because this is the longest layoff i've ever had in my career, and i've never had this long a layoff, my plays aren't what they should be be. i need more practice, more play time, playing more money games with the guys on tour at home. >> rose: you live around a lot of golfers. >> i believe there is 33 pros that play out there. >> rose: you play with them. i have been playing with them and taking a bit of their money here and there. ( laughter ) >> rose: for me, there is a difference between the driving range and the course. >> totally, correct. >> rose: a difference between playing with friends and a tournament. >> yes. being ranger rick is one thing and then playing the tour level is a totally different deal. beyond the tour level is the major championships, so there is

a progression and i'm not quite at the tour level progression yet. >> rose: do you believe the talent is there? >> oh, yeah. >> rose: you're sure? yeah. >> rose: how do you know? oh, i'm hitting the shots, i can feel the shots, i just don't quite have it all yet, and i like having the full repertoire of shots. i really wasn't there yet. >> rose: let me just analyze your game today. the putting. the putting is what made you great. >> right. i can putt. >> rose: you can putt. i can putt. >> rose: there is no problem there. >> huh-uh. >> rose: the long irons? not a problem. >> rose: what is it? just overall scoring. >> rose: it's not a particular aspect of the game you can fix and then you've got it? >> no, it's just putting it all together. >> rose: keeping it in the pairway. >> keeping it in the fairway, i'm not quite as long as i used to be. >> rose: by how much? ten yards. i can carry the ball over 300 yards but the big boys are now 330. it's a different ball game. the game has gotten a lot

bigger. i was out there at the ryder cup watching some of the guys hit golf balls. it was 52 degrees out and they're using the track band. i'm looking at the numbers, 52 degrees out, and i'm going, i just carried 308. it's 52 degrees and we're looking at each other going, can you hit one out that far? >> rose: do you feed to make any adjustments to your swing? >> that's ebbing and flowing. i'm making slight tweaks here and there, and that is something that i've always done. it's just making a little bit of tweets. >> rose: that's the search for perfection? >> not perfection but professional excellence. we're not perfect. so i've converted the word into professional excellence. >> rose: you were thinking perfect? >> i was trying to get better. >> rose: but you've always done that? >> i've always done that. >> rose: that's the search to different swing coaches, and what can i do, because i'm as good as i am, when you were

experimenting with your game, winning every tournament you can see. >> i was doing that when office kid, always trying to get better. >> rose: mindset, will to win, clearheadedness, that's there, sure. >> mm-hmm. >> rose: those who suggest vulnerable means not just the game but vulnerableness somehow about not having the same sense of rightness that you had at the best of your game. >> well, when i played my best, that was 16 years ago. >> rose: yeah. so most guys aren't jumping and doing 360 dunks at the age of 40, okay? most guys aren't taking off on the foul line and doing dunks at age 40. so we have to make adjustments as we get older, and i've done that throughout the years. and throughout different injuries, i've played around them, and this is no different. >> rose: i do get the sense,

though, that you don't want any more surgeries. >> oh, god, no. >> rose: well, no, for a different reason. you want to play with your kids and all that stuff. you've suggested you've had it with surgeries. >> seven is enough. >> rose: seven is enough. seven is enough. >> rose: and part of the reason is you want to play with the kids and all these other things and you don't want to be in pain. >> i love playing soccer with my kids and being able to toss the golf around, playing ball with charlie. i love doing that. for us to do soccer drills and just to have fun. to me, when i was hurt after the last surgery and i couldn't do any of that stuff for months at a time, that was brutal. that was hard to take because daddy, let's go play. daddy can't move. >> rose: but do i get the sense, i mean, if terms of what you're doing, announcing the company, that you are prepared, if golf is over, to have another life. >> well, charlie, it's basically, the tgr branding is

bringing all our businesses under one umbrella. they have been existing. >> rose: right. but i'm setting up chapter two of my life. chapter one was the golfer, only the golfer, playing golf, winning tournaments. here i'm setting up chapter two without hitting a golf ball and trying to create a business empire and different business entities and growing that so i don't have to hit a golf ball is that to be a happy person? >> to do other things that are of my interest. the golfer can still be there, i can still play, i can still do those things, but it's not mandatory for my business to grow and for me to help kids with my foundation or with the restaurant or the tgr design or all that stuff. i don't have to hit a golf ball. i can eventually transition into being strictly an entrepreneur. >> rose: and involved with the foundation and other things.

>> 100%. >> rose: okay. here's what's interesting about you more than any athlete i know. it's not just you, it's us. we can't let you go. there is a sense that -- >> oh, you care? ( laughter ) >> rose: yes. but there is a sense that we never understood how it was to be so brilliant on a golf course. we didn't get how one could be so dominant in a sport. we didn't understand how you could lose that, either, you know, and we desperately, and i think this is everybody, because of the mystique and because of where it was and because of how it was lost is to understand and to want you to come back. they want to see it, that kind of dominance. it's reflected in television ratings. they want to see it one more time. you've thought about that. >> of course, charlie. i miss being out there. i miss competing and mixing it up with the boys and coming down the stretch. >> rose: you like being tiger woods? >> i like beating those guys. that's why i practice all those

hours and trained all those hours in the gym, ran all those miles is to be ready to take on those guys down the stretch, and do i miss it? absolutely, a hundred percent. and to be at my age now at 40 years old and to have gone through the things i've gone through, you know, physically, you know, hey, i'm the first one to admit i can't do the things i used to be able to do. most people can't at my age versus when they were younger. i have to find different ways to go about it. >> rose: you have to find other ways to win? >> yes, i do. but because of my mindset, i'm naturally a tactician. even when i was hitting the ball long and blowing off the top of bunkers, that was the strategy. so i used my mind, and eventually the method i used allowed me to match my craft. >> rose: that's why the mind is so important. you used your mind. you've learned that from your father, i assume. >> correct. >> rose: you learned mental

toughness. you learned how to win. you still have that, don't you? >> that part hasn't left me. i know how to get it done. i just need to get into a position to get it done. >> rose: but you have to do this yourself. there's no coach, no psychologist can tell you that. >> as an individual athlete, you're actually out there by yourself. i know joey's with me on the bag, but no one's pulling the trigger, no one's bailing you out. the manager is not coming in and bringing the righty in when you're struggling. you're by yourself. there's no time-outs, no i'm not feeling good and we'll play the guy off the bench and fill your role, ire by yourself out there. >> rose: that's part of what you liked about the game. >> i liked the grind of it and the ownership of it. what i really loved and still love is getting out there and figuring out a way to get it done, just figuring out a way.

>> rose: you love figuring out a way. >> whatever you have, trying to figure out a way, digging down deep in myself to try to find a way to get it done. it may not be pretty, but finding a way to get it done. because i've won golf tournaments, as you know, hitting over fairways left and right, missing greens and chipping in. >> rose: and when it was almost dark, they didn't know how you could possibly see the hole. >> i'm a tiger. i'm a cat. i'm a night owl. >> rose: goes without saying. you said people don't understand when i was growing up i was not the most talented biggest or the fastest and certainly not the strongest, the only thing i had was my work ethic and that's what's gotten me this far. >> that's one thing you can't take away. you can take away all my physical attributes but you can't touch my mind, and that part of it is being mentally

prepared and having the mindset of preparing and digging in and doing the work. i've never been afraid of that. >> rose: some have said, to be tiger woods was both a gift and a burden. how is it a sphwhurd -- burden? >> well, it's a burden in the sense that the amount of obligations i have at a tournament, the anonymity that was lost, you know, if you look back, the only regret i have in life is not spending another year at stanford, and i wish i had that year. >> rose: that's the only regret? >> the only regret. >> rose: audit of all the things that happened? >> all the things. >> rose: everything? i've learned all the things i have been through have been tough, but great for me but i wish i had gone one more year at stanford. >> rose: why do you say that? the amount of brilliant people who were there, the

things i was learning at the time was i ready to turn pro? physically, yes. i won a bunch of tournaments and the college slam, no one's done that, the college region also and nationals, three amateurs in a row, but i was ready to go. i wish i had spent one more year learning from everyone who was there -- people designing their own computers, working on the accelerator. >> rose: there are stories about you reading physics books and being fascinated by things like that. you can always do that. >> but being around those people at that age, you don't likely get a chance to do that again and have two great years at stanford, it shaped me more than the years as, you know, subsequent. those two years really did shape me because the amount of people and plus going away from home for the very first time and for me to feel at home and comfortable around some of the greatest athletes on the planet, some of the brightest minds on the planet, and we're all so

young and doing it together, and this is before the internet, so having the communication and trying to get through study groups, you know, that's one thing i do miss. >> rose: in the '90s. in the '90s, yeah. >> rose: i want to talk about, one, how you became tiger, how you lost it and how you can regain it. we'll talk a little bit about that. why golf in the first place? >> well -- that's a great question. i have played it basically all pi life. i played baseball, i was a pitcher, i ran track and cross country. i liked doing those sports but i didn't love it. i kept coming back to golf. i kept finding myself running the miles in track and especially cross country, getting all that mileage in to get ready to play golf. when i was on the mound throwing, i'm thinking, okay, this is, like, number one, i've got to position my shot on the right side to have the fairway, this ball has to be outside.

my mind kept coming back to golf. whatever i was doing, it kept coming back to golf. >> rose: you watched your father hit balls in the garage up against a net? >> i did. it was one of those el niño years, so pops wasn't allowed to go out there and hit the amount of range balls because it was hosen down rain, storm after storm kept coming in southern cal, and i just happened to be born december of the next year, you know, el niño hits and, you know, here i am. >> rose: talk about him and your relationship with him. >> well, being my dad, he's a person i miss dealer. i think about him every day. he was more than just my dad. he was a person i could always turn, to a friend, a mentor, a

leader, and then eventually a follower and, you know, he put on so many different hats and was comfortable playing different roles, and that's something that, you know, i thoroughly miss. >> rose: and what did he give you? >> my dad? he gave me so much. he gave me his heart, his soul, and the fact that we were able to have the conversations we were able to have through all my childhood and when i turned pro and even when he was sick and he was battling prostate cancer three times, he would always find time and somehow find a way to be able to talk to me. even if he wasn't feeling well, he would sit up and we would have a great conversation. >> rose: let me ask about a couple of things, number one i guess the time you jumped out of a plane at fort bragg or

somewhere, and your dad said, now you know what my life is like, correct? >> yeah, jumped with the golden knights at fort bragg. >> rose: and what did he mean? well, it was -- i had grown up playing at a military golf course and been around the military and been around active duty and retired servicemen my entire life, but i hadn't experienced what he had to do, you know, for his job. >> rose: as a green beret? as a green beret, and as transportation to get your job. taking a car for me to go to the golf course. his was jumping out of an airplane. >> rose: right. but he said to you, now you know what i do. it was, like, i've watched you as a golfer, and now you can see what made me. >> correct, and the amount of physical work it took for those guys to do what they do, the operators operating in the past

around currently, it is physically demanding, it's brutal on the body and even tougher on the mind. so getting over fear and relying on others not only to basically save your life, that's something i never experienced, never understood. >> rose: he helped you understand fearlessness? >> not necessarily understand it because i was always kind of an adrenaline junky to begin with, but i understand where he was coming from now. >> rose: look at this video, sitting at this table tiger's pop, earl. >> imax mize his opportunity with his own assets and his own skills. i brought this out in him. he already had toughness, i might add. then i brought more to the table, taught him how to refine

it and develop additional toughness in him through experiential things. since that time, since he graduated from what i call woods' finishing school, he has exponentially gone even higher on the toughness scale, past even what i thought, and it's surprising him. he has called me and he says, pop, i am getting to tough, and every time i see him and i have been away from him a little while, i'm amazed at how much tougher he is. >> that's cool. >> rose: to see him. that's cool to see him. >> rose: and what he said. i mean, toughness -- people believe what you have had on the course, certainly at the best of those years when you had such a remarkable run, that it was toughness, that you were

mentally tougher than everybody else. >> i just knew i was going to beat you. >> rose: you did. i did. >> rose: but it was part of what happened to you. you were expected to win. >> that's fine. but i expected to win as well. the toughness, i think, came in through practice and, as you were alluding to, hard work. and me working hard and really feeling comfortable and hitting all the shots and pulling it off, all the shots you see me pull off, i've already pulled off. i didn't practice. if i can do it there, i can do it anywhere. >> rose: you're convinced you worked harder than everybody else? >> that's something i may not have. >> rose: hogan felt that, too. i just know that, as i alluded to, i wasn't always the biggest, the fastest, the most gifted, but you can't take away my work ethic. >> rose: but you wanted it more? >> i wanted to beat you more. >> rose: is this the same competitiveness that michael

jordan has? >> i don't know. >> rose: you know michael. i do know michael, and michael is tough and he loves winning and he loves beating people, and i think there is a certain commonality between all levels, forget athletes, but all professions. i think you just enjoy getting better and being the best. >> rose: and so what happens when they beat you? >> you go back to the drawing board and do it again. >> rose: is that right? absolutely. >> rose: to have always said, there's another day and i will be back and beat you? >> my winning percentage is not very high. you know, we lose more golf tournaments than we win. >> rose: yeah. it's like a baseball player. if you hit .300, you're in the paul o -- hall of fame, so you lose 70% of the time, but you're one of the best that's played. my sport is the same, the winning percentage is not very high but it's fun to come back and get it done. >> rose: how do we measure the best to ever play golf?

jack because he has 18 majors, or is it some general appraisal, simply that that person had more talent and applied it better than anybody? >> that's a great question. it is so hard because we never got a chance to play against one another except that one time where we played with each other in 2000. but when you cross generations, you know, it's very difficult to see who's better than the other. in all sports. but i just think that, for me, i would take my skills up against jack any day, and i'm sure he'd feel the same way. >> rose: do you believe you will get 18 majors? >> to be honest with you, no. >> rose: you don't? no. >> rose: you've accepted that? i've accepted i'm going to get more. ( laughter ) >> rose: you're 40. yes. >> rose: jack won the masters when i was 46. >> correct. >> rose: tom almost won the british open when he was 59.

>> i know. >> rose: but you've got to get started soon. >> whether soon or not, i need to get started and be ready to go. >> rose: when your dad died and you took his body back to kansas, did that take something out of you? >> having to bury my father, that was very difficult. i've never lost a parent. my mom is still alive. that was the first person that has ever been close to me that i've had to go to a funeral and bury, and it happened to be the person i was closest to. >> rose: the most influential person in your life, bar none. >> yeah, absolutely, correct. but also the person i was closest to, so i don't know if i'm in it -- if i'm the only one who's ever felt that way -- >> rose: of corrse not. -- but it hurt a lot. i didn't grieve right away. i put it away for a while, and i missed the cut at the u.s. open.

i played horribly, and i still hadn't really grieved yet. i came back at hoy lake and played well and for some reason it was the most interesting thing, playing the final round, i had an overwhelming sense of calm, like what is this feeling. normally you're pretty jacked up to play in a major if you get a chance to win, and i did, i had the lead, but all of a sudden i felt this overwhelming calmness, and it was like my pop was there. and then i finished the 18, and i never cry, but this started coming out, it couldn't control it. i just missed my dad. and i knew right then that he would never witness this again, and that was really hard to take. >> rose: he treated you like an adult. >> he did. one of the things i do with my kids that he did with me is, anytime we talked, he would always make sure that he was

always at eye level. so when he was up above me, he would always sit down. if he was laying down, when he was toward the end of his life and wasn't feeling very good, he would sit up. so we would be at eye level now, he would come up, and we would always work at eye level. that is something that is so important. he never talked down to his child. we were communicating. >> rose: there were times in which you were estranged from him, yes? >> i don't know about estranged. what do you mean i? >> rose: meaning you two were not getting along because you had questions and your mother knew he was sick. this is what is said and i'm asking if it's true. it's a perfectly natural thing to do. your mother said you've got to make up with your father, you don't know how long he's going to live and if you don't you will regret it the rest of your

life. >> i wouldn't say we were that far apart, not like that. we were still in communication, we were still talking, but i needed to get my relationship back to where it used to be. >> rose: but what was wrong with it? >> when dad was sick, he really sad some pretty outlandish things, and i think it was just him being sick, but i took it personal. so i said, hey, you know what? hey, you have been really sick and the meds you have been on, he was all over the shop, his diabetes was really bad, and i didn't understand it at the time because i was still playing golf and still focusing on the things i needed to do, and a couple of times when he was really sick, he would say, you know, hey, kentucky -- house of kentucky last week? i said, dad, i was here with you yesterday. he said pretty outlandish things

at the time and chocked it up to being sick. he gave me one last hurray about two weeks before he died. we talked for about an hour and a half, but it was my dad of old, and he gave me one last bit of himself, and then from then on, he quickly eroded and then finally passed away. >> rose: would you be the golfer you are without your dad? >> no. >> rose: you would not be the champion you became? >> without my dad or mother, no way. >> rose: both of them? no way. >> rose: because your mother stood by you and him. >> my mother was so supportive and so loyal and so great as a mother that there's no way. >> rose: she was also supportive after thanksgivingo fine when you had a public humeation -- thanksgiving of 2009 when you had a public humeiation. tell me about dealing that.

>> my mom was a mom. she said, i'm always here, i love you no matter what. she gave me a bunch of big hugs and that was really cool. yeah, did i mess up? absolutely. but my mom was still there for me. >> rose: that was important. absolutely, because i didn't have my dad anymore. it was just her and i. >> rose: some would suggest that that humiliation you went through publicly, your private life exposed, has a lingering effect on your mind and your have better communication than we've ever had, and i have talked to her about my life almost on a daily basis, and she does the same. so it was rough to go through

but, in the end, you know, here we are better than we've ever been. >> rose: how do you tell your kids why mommy and daddy are not together is this. >> it's because daddy made some mistakes. daddy made some mistakes. i would much rather them hear it from me. >> rose: you said, i regret what i did? >> no, i haven't said that. i said everybody makes mistakes, and the reason mommy is living in her house and daddy in his is because daddy made some mistakes and it's okay. but you know what? you guys are so lucky to have two parents who love you so much, not everyone has that. i was lucky enough to have two loving parents. my father did not. his parents died by the time he was 11 and 13, so he grew up without having parents. my mom's parents died early. so, you know, that, to me, i think is important in the end is my kids know that, no matter what whawhat happens that they d

and mom will always be there, it's just that we don't live together physically, but emotionally and spiritually we are always there with them. >> rose: you feel you have apologized to everybody you need to apologize to in terms of family and people you care about? >> yes. >> rose: did it make you more vulnerable? >> i won't say more vulnerable is the word. >> rose: what would you say? i had to be honest with myself. that's part of, you know, going through what i went through is i messed up. i shunned a lot of things. i didn't communicate with, for insans, elin -- instance, elin very well. but i learned from it. fast forward, i'm a better communicator now. i talk to people more on a deeper level, and i learned a lot. >> rose: and if she's forgiven you, then that's a starting point for you. >> she's forgiven me a long time ago, but we've worked so hard on

creating an environment for our kids, and as i said, she's one of my best friends, and to go -- not too many people can say that about their exes, that they're best friends. >> rose: so there's your dad gone, the humiliation you've dealt with, and then the injuries. when you look at losing it, are those three things responsible, or is it something we don't know or understand? why has tiger woods not won a major since 2009? >> 2008. >> rose: 2008. but at the same time, tiger woods has had good seasons, like 2013, after player of the year, after all those things. >> yeah. >> rose: so i'm struggling to understand why you are not playing like you used to play, as i assume you are. >> yeah. >> rose: and if you don't know, how can anybody else know? ggestions by all kinds ofds of people.

>> oh, yeah, there is a lot of arm chair q.b.ing. >> rose: yes, indeed. i've had three back operations and that's taken its toll on me. i've had a torn achilles, torn menace cues and blown knee. i've changed my swing three times. >> rose: because of the pain and surgery? >> trying to get around certain injuries and not duplicate them. >> rose: what's the best advice you've gotten for getting back to where you want to be? >> go back to my dad. his famous line. always said it to me, you get out what you put into it. >> rose: you get out what you put? >> you get out of it what you put into it. >> rose: you get out of it what you put into it. >> if you work hard, you get the results, if you don't work hard, more importantly, you don't deserve it because you didn't go

out there and earn it. >> rose: how much is physical and how much is mental? >> for me, the mental comes from the physicality, from having umpteen great practicing and training sessions and home and then, as i said, going on the golf course with the guys and eventually into a tournament setting and eventually down the stretch into a tournament, major championships and a major, all those progressions that starts with hitting putts and working from the green back. how i learned to begin with. chipping, drivers, you know. but it is the progression, and it doesn't happen overnight and takes a lot of effort. >> rose: and that's what will get you back? >> absolutely. >> rose: but the mental part was -- i mean, everybody knew you had early, when you went in the u.s. amateur, you had all the tools. but the mental stuff was so

important. i mean, you wanted to win, and you also didn't just want to win that tournament, you wanted to beat the hell out of everybody who was there. that was mindset that you had. you were a killer. a killer! >> winning was fun. beating someone is even better. >> rose: why is that? i don't know. i've always had that. you know, if you win a race, you know, you win a meet by a second or two, it sure feels a lot better if you win it by five or six, you know. striking four or five guys out, but, you know what, throwing a no-hitter is even better. >> rose: you just want to throw it right by them. >> absolutely. winning a golf tournament by one or two is great, but five or six is even better. >> rose: so it must be terribly hard for you to accept this. >> it's been terribly hard not to be able to do the things it would take for me to get to that level, and that is simply just

practicing. >> rose: you have a strong confidence as your dad did in hard work. >> that's where it came from. >> rose: ben hogan believed the same thing. that's how ben hogan came back from a car accident. >> correct. >> rose: he always said it's in the dirt. >> you've got to go earn it. >> rose: yeah. but you seem to be looking for all these swing coaches and stuff that, somehow, they will have a swing that will work best for you. and i'm wondering whether you need a swing coach because you had a pretty good swing, but you're saying you have to adjust a new swing because of the injuries which changed your body? >> correct, and having the mindset, you know, having the correct mindset to go into a change and applying it to creating a whole new mede that i think -- whole new method i think would be better and more efficient, and that's what i was always striving to do, and

that's why i've gone through swing coaches, and i've hurt my body. let's not repeat that. let's go somewhere else and try a different way. >> rose: yes. and i believe in that mindset, let's create this method, go down that road and master that. next thing you know, that didn't work, lte come back around and do it again. >> rose: you were so self-focused in thinking about the game, you didn't seem to pay a lot of attention to other people. yes? >> people who are closest to me, yes. also ten, again, i was have -- also then, again, i was very uncomfortable being in public. >> rose: so more shyness than arrogance and being a jerk? >> no, i've always been very shievment when i was little, i had a speech impediment and i used to stutter pretty badly where i had to go to a special

after-school program two years to learn how to speak correctly. i was in the back to have the classroom. if you called on me, i couldn't speak. i would stutter so bad the teacher would pass me and go on to the next one. i had to learn how to speak. that was hard. i could read, i could write, but i couldn't speak. so i didn't want to speak to anybody. i didn't want to talk to anybody. having to go through that difficult time early on in my childhood probably would shape me to what i am now. >> rose: people have said to me who know golf and you say they believe you can come back because they believe that the elite can come back. but it's the belief and it's also making sure that you face the new reality, which is what you're talking about. the new reality is i hit it differently today, i have to compensate to figure out a new

way to win. >> as i said, most 40-year-olds can't dunk from the foul line, so i have to go a different way. that's part of the evolution of my game and part of the evolution of the sport, you've got to find a different way to do it, and there is nothing wrong with that. as you alluded to, jack won the masters at 46, almost 59. but those guys weren't overpowering golf courses. they did it with their mind, strategically and through patience. >> rose: that's what you can do now? >> that's what i've done in the past but also have the physicality to go with it. >> rose: you've lost a little physicality? you can't drive it over the bunker? >> the bunker is now 320. >> rose: the idea, when you were at your best, the idea of laying up was not something, that was not an idea that went into your head. >> because of the fact that i could not only pull off the

shots but i was far enough down there. relative to the field, i was one of the players. >> rose: yes! but that was at 296. >> rose: now it's 320. now it's 320. the carry number back when i first came on tour, probably 20 or 30 guys still using persimmon. my carry number where i felt hitting a driver was 280. now i can hit a 3-wood 280 coming out of my chair. so it's a completely different game than then. the game is much bigger and longer. so relative to the field, i'm not quite what i used to be. but numberswise, i'm longer than i used to be. >> rose: right. timidate like you used to, and that was part of what you had. you intimidated everybody. you came expecting to win, and when they saw you, they expected to lose.

>> well, i don't know what they were thinking but i expected to beat them, yes. >> rose: you expected to win. you said to one person you expected to win, that's the demand on you because of what you achieved. >> forget what i achieved. i expected to beat you because to have the work i put in. >> rose: a lot of people work hard. >> i don't know how they work and i don't know how they derive their own confidence and self-belief. some players derive it from practice. some guys like to play a bunch of tournament and develop their momentum and feel and competitiveness that way. i have, for the most part of my career since probably '99, i really haven't played that much. some guys will play close to 30 events. i've never done that is that you tailored it for the majors? >> i tried to peak for four times a year. when i was younger, it was harder because i only had the u.s. junior one time a year.

>> rose: you won three years in a row. >> and then the amateur and two-aways. but as a pro four times. >> rose: when do you think you will come back? >> i'm moping to come back in december. >> rose: you are? mm-hmm h. >> rose: you're not going to play in the turkey thing? >> no. >> rose: but in december. december, yeah. at the challenge. >> rose: you believe you can do that, you will be ready? something happened between withdrawing from safeway and competing there. >> more hard work. >> rose: i want to talk about the game, too. of all the tournaments, which one meant the most to you, the first masters when you were 21? >> meant the most or the hardest to win? >> rose: both. meant the most, the '97 masters. the hardest to win -- >> rose: that was the first one. >> yeah. meant the most was '97 masters, and the hardest win was the last one in 2008.

my life was broken. >> rose: and you played through that. >> no acl, my leg was broken. >> rose: how did you do that? hell if i know. i look back on those days and i don't know how i pulled that off. >> rose: you said to me today, which i believe, what you love about the game is win -- is win, but more specifically beating somebody, that's what you love. >> that's fun. >> rose: what is it about the military? als that had you so engaged, obsessed, admiring. >> well, i grew up -- my dad was in special forces, green beret. being around special forces operators all my life, i've seen that world, and that world is, is it difficult? yes, absolutely, but also comfortable to me because i was raised in it. some of my dad's best friend

were operators. either currently at the time and then or formerly retired, then the guys who were operators were retired and so we still played golf. so to me that was a world i had grown up in. was it a big jump for me to participate and see it in a different light? not really because i've seen it all my life. you know, being a military brat, that's kind of what i was used to. >> rose: but one of your caddies said you talked about giving up golf to become a navy seal. did you? >> i told my dad at an early age i wanted to become a person in the military, a golfer or businessman. well, i got a chance to become a golfer and businessman, i just didn't go in the military. >> rose: arnold palmer died within the last couple of weeks.

what did he mean to you? >> he was a friend and a person that i pick up the phone and call and we would rap about so many different things and have a conversation and the dinners i've had with him were some of the great memories. probably one to have the fondest -- probably one of the fondest memories i have is at napa, i was in college. arnold would invite me to dinner and arnold picks up the tab. i'm not going to say i'm a college student, i'm going to pick up my tab. it's arnold palmer. my coach found out. did you i can up the tab? no, arnold did. i reported, declared ineligible. i go to the all-american el paso, and i have to write arnold palmer a $25 check for my

steak dinner. he has to cash the check, fax the copy back and i was declared eligible to play in the all-american. >> rose: how about jack nicholas? >> how about him? >> rose: what's your relationship with him? do you believe he is the greatest golfer to ever live? >> i think i'm pretty good, too. >> rose: do you think you're better than nicholas? >> i think we would have a hell of a duel. >> rose: do you think you're better than him? >> i think i could kick his ass. >> rose: right now? he's 70. >> rose: so 40 can beat 70. ( laughter ) >> no, jack has always been one of my heros. >> rose: you lusted for his record? >> i wouldn't say lusted for his record. i would say that was a gold standard because he had won the

most majors and the second most tour events, and, so, he was the most efficient, i think, at the highest level for the longest period of time, and, you know, how did it? one, eedidn't play that much either. he played a very limited schedule and paced himself and basically tried to get ready four times a year, and he was better than anybody else who had come along. walter hager's record was 11, he is 18. >> rose: and you're 14. correct. >> rose: and you believe you will have more than 18. >> correct. >> rose: and if you don't, you will say -- >> i didn't get there. >> rose: but you said in another interview in "time" magazine that anything i win from now on the gravy because you know you're in the hall of fame and the record books and people regardless of how many you win say you're the greatest because they saw that run and the level of that game and say i've never seen anything like

it. famously, the comment that bobby jones made about jack, that's not a game i'm familiar with. and jack said about you, that's not a game i'm familiar with. al thing. according to bobby jones, jack was, oh, my god. where i was hitting it, jack couldn't hit it that farm. technology has changed greatly, so i was able to do things jack wasn't able to do because to have the equipment, jack was able to do things bobby jones couldn't do because to have the equipment, but one commonality is we were all efficient at what we did, and we did it better than most people did. >> rose: someone else said to me the great ones never lose their fire, they only lose their ability. that's true, isn't it? >> there will come a point in time where, yeah, physically, i won't be able to do it. >> rose: how will you know? and how do you know that's not

now? >> i won't be able to prepare to be ready to go out and win. for me, if i'm not able to prepare to win, then i can't do it anymore. >> rose: what do you want to be known for other than a great golfer and a great businessman? >> what i'm doing with my foundation. what we've done for all the kids. all the kids have come through our learning labs, what we're doing with digital expansion, what we're doing for kids not just here domestically but internationally as well. i think what i do in chapter two of my life with this new branding of tgr, i think the whole second part of my life will be better and more impactful than what i did as a golfer, hitting a high drive and making a couple of putts. i think what we're doing to impact lives will far exceed what we've done on the golf course. >> rose: bill gates is known

more for philanthropy than he is starting one of the most successful companies in the history of business. >> i hundred percent agree. >> rose: that's possible for you? >> i think that's a great example of what can happen. >> rose: and right now you're going to try to be the greatest golfer in the world and educate through the tiger woods fowrntion celebrating its 20-year anniversary, by the way. >> i know, 20 years, doing this for half my life. >> rose: if it ends today, what is the legacy you want it? >> i was a pretty good player. i had some good years in there and won events. i really loved competing, i loved being out there and i loved being in that moment, trying to pull off something. whether i did or didn't, testify that opportunity to have that moment, fail or succeed, it was on me and it was at that moment,

that is fun. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you, charlie. thanks for having me. >> rose: thank you. tiger woods for the hour. thank you for joining us. a remarkable conversation about not only performance but the will to win. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

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