. >> rose: welcome to the program, tonight we close the year by remembering some of the people we lost in 2016. >> i have the attention span of a grasshopper which means that it is very difficult for me to become a craftsman. i suppose that i'm quite promissious and a jack of all trades. >> artisticically, of course. life's changed. we have move add long. we've reached the plateau of maturity. i ch, ch, ch-changed. >> rose: funding for charlie rose is provided by the following:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: these men and women lived important lives. they enriched our culture through their inventions, their art and their enterprise. they appeared over the past 25 years of this program and we take a moment this evening to appreciate them. >> it kind of catapulted me into a status that i don't think i would have achieved had i continued doing r&b and pop. so it's a little bit-- you know-- . >> rose: would you have just been known as a jazz artist. >> orr & b pop artist. so now i'm singing with pass i hado domingo and jose car eras

and getting offers from all over the world to perform for royalty and getting invited even to social events. and people wanted to meet and look in the face of-- and it was like i got this whole new audience of people who didn't know anything about what i did before. >> rose: how much of it do you think was the album per se and what you did with the due et and how much. >> i think 90% of it was the album, no question. i think what this album did was it-- it's like a reawakened something in a lot of people that thought this music was pretty much gone. they would have to pull out their old records if they wanted to hear it again. they certainly weren't going into the record stores any more because this kind of music wasn't selling. and between radio and musicians that were performing, i mean, so many of them said thank you. you've given us work again.

>> rose: yeah. >> i close my book out with this and i tell this story. the last page of the book. i had gone down to the courthouse in washington to be sworn in to the d.c. bar. i was with a law firm and i wanted to be a member of the d.c. bar. when i went through the metal detector at the courthouse, the court houses are almost like airports now with all the equipment. when i went through that, when i went through that thing i set it off. and hi been looking down and suddenly i looked up and this big african-american man, about 6 feet 3, 6 feet 4 was looking at me and he had a scanner in his hands. and i thought he wanted me to spread eagle so he could scan me because hi set the metal detector off. and he looked at me and he said senator bumpers. >> and i said yes. >> he said i cried when you said you weren't going to run no more. and i said you know, that may be the kindest, most gratifying

thing anybody ever said to me. and he stood there for a full 10 seconds, i guess. he said would you tbif me a big hug. i said i would be delighted to give you a big hug. we embraced for about five seconds and i went my way. and i wanted to say to my father, you were right. that one experience made it all worthwhile. >> when i conduct in these different places, people always say well, you know, french orchestras have their own style, chinese orchestras have their own style. don't believe that. i try to change that style immediately to be a veen ease star, to be a mall arian style. so when i finished in beijing after 11 rehearsals they offered me, you would not have confused this orchestra with the vienna philharmonic but you would have thought maybe it was an austrian orchestra, so i believe maller

has his own language and that is what i learned over the years more than anything else. how do we get that language expressed but at the end of the day, you know, you bring your own life to this music. the music is so emotional and i don't think you can get a great performance if you simply follow all these endless de-- details. you must bring yourself to it and although i'm often credited with coming the closest to following what is in the score, i should, i probably know it better than anyone else, which is not bragging. i spent 20 years studying one score. i still feel at the end of the day i conduct a very idiosyncratic performance as people will hear moneyed night. >> markets go up, markets go down. i think there is too much emphasis on the scandals as driving the market down. there are other factors including the terrorist, potential terrorist attack, the fact that the economy doesn't appear to be growing as fast as we would have thought. there are other factors out

there. regional factors in terms of weather and the like. but it is a fact that people are concerned about it. you're right, half of the households in this country own equity. people follow the market. many people trade online. and that's all a positive thing. but i think most people are staying with the market. the individual investor despite all of the bad news is staying in the market. i think that's the important part to recognize. >> don't look at my personality. my personality is not important. for me the important is what you do, you compose, you write, all the music performed. i can accept that. because certainly i am, you know, i have a vision which is necessary if you want to do music. you have to have a-- and give you a vision of things. i mean i never objected to that.

i never-- i was never-- point of view at all. simply from the organization of music, of what i think is the music which is important and music which is less important, then i give my taste. are you not obliged to go with it. but i cannot really give me opinion. >> you are going very strong. you said you were just with the vienna philharmonic but are you approaching your 75th birthday, the year 2 thousand, correct? >> yes, absolutely. >> what would you like for the musical legacy to be. >> well, i would like for me, that's not so much the performances. performances are transyent. you know, that's just something that happens and are you happy sometimes. but i mean that's not the main thing in my life. i would like my workshop, i mean i think that the desire is very common to all artists.

>> when the worst was over, i felt that it was extremely necessary that those who died from mental illness, which was my brother died, my mother died by her own hand. i felt that they should be eulogized, that they should not be forgotten and that their illness should be put to some use. >> rose: and you dedicated it to your father. >> yes, yes, i did. >> rose: why? >> well, because he was incredible survivor. he-- he managed to become a very successful lawyer and to work in sports and to love music and to love art. and to live his life almost in spite of it all. and though he was, is a very opinionated man, he none the less breathed life, forced the

breathe of life into me. and therefore i surviveed. when i graduated from college, my burning ambition was never to be a lawyer or a judge. >> rose: you wanted to be a reporter. >> i wanted to be a reporter, yes. i thought i would be a great maker and shaper of world opinion. that is really what i wanted to be. i had, i looked a long time for a job. couldn't find one. it was very, very hard. i think i traveled the whole eastern coast. >> rose: to find a job as a reporter. >> to find a job as a reporter. and i finally did take a job in des operation at a little newspaper in union city, new jersey, as a social reporter. and i always described myself as a failed journalist because i went to law school only to get on the news side of the news paper. but i found that being in law school was lots of fun. >> rose: what is the difference today in terms of a young woman going to law school and the time that you entered law school, how many years ago that was. i went to law school as well,

and to duke law school. i think we had five, six, seven women in my class. maybe the same for you. today my guess is it's 50% or more. >> i went to law school 35 years ago, new york university law school and i believe i was one of about ten women at the time. i started in the evening division because i was so still hanging on to that dream of being a great reporter. and i moved very slowly into the ambition to be a lawyer. we were few women in those years. many, many men and you're quite right. today the numbers are probably close to 50%, and in some law schools, more than 50%. so i think the situation is quite different in law school. it's quite different in entry positions in the legal profession. i'm not sure things are all that different at the upper reaches of the profession. >> i think my ideal more is a synthesis, rather than anything else. i quite have always liked the idea of the cybernetics of our

culture. the way that you can draw several strands together and create a new thing. i hope and believe that what i do is more of a creative thing in that way. that i think it's fine to draw from opera or from the visual arts, from the underground, from mainstream. and just produce a new blend which is probably a more complete way of describing the way that we live. and creating a-- creating a sense of the cultural spin by amalgamating all these different threads. >> that's it, isn't it. that's what it's all about. >> rose: one of the things that people have always said about you is you keep an eye on what is going on with what is new. >> i can't take my eyes off them. it's, you know, i really, i have got an incredible an tight for what we do. and how we do it and how we

express it. and ever since i was a kid i always want to know what's out there. i always want to know what's happening. >> rose: do you think of yourself first as a musician? >> no, no, actually i find the idea of having to say that i'm a musician in anyway is an embarrassment to me. because i don't really believe that. i've always felt that what i do is i use music for my way of expression. i don't believe i'm very accomplished at it. and i give a little sigh of relief every time that i come up with something which sounds whole and complete and sort of functions as a piece of music. and fortunately it does seem to be there all the time. i never seem to go dry when it comes to writing music. but i don't feel like a musician >> rose: mollier and shake speers only wrote about life.

this was their mandate, just life. and the curiousness, the strangeness of this experience that we all share, you know. but what we-- and mollier, of course, dealt in obsession. people with-- obsessive people. and but i think that what it says in another way is that new york and indeed the united states, our country, as i told you before, i've lived here for 35 years. and the most disgraceful aspect of our culture is that there is no national theater. it's heartbreaking for somebody like me. because i would be there all the time. >> rose: yeah. >> but there isn't a company like the royal shakespeare company in england or the british national theater. can you tell me why that is. >> rose: i was going to ask you, you know more about that. why is it? >> because people in washington

are a pathetic. >> rose: about a repertoire. >> to the soul of this country. because that's what it is to do. theater is to do with, you know, it's food for the soul. these classical plays, this is why they are classical plays, because they mean something. and they have meant something to every generation since they were written. it's not because, you know, people are forced to learn them in school. it's because they're dense with meaning. to our lives. >> there is a lot of pressure to have some kind of public image in whatever your job is. i think that's one of the great things about being an actor. it is at your per toil lose touch with the child in you. >> you have to almost be in touch with everything as part of you to be a great actor, right. that's part of the genius is that they are in touch with all of their feelings, emotions.

>> yeah, hopefully, physically, head to foot, every emotion and things that you don't even know about. but very much your innocence. >> is that a learned thing or is that show intuitive and there? >> i think it's both. it's like, it's learned in the sense that i'm a great believer in training for actors. and so when you go to drama school, if you are fortunate enough to have great teachers, and i was, there is a painful process where they take you apart before putting you back together again. and i was very nervous about training, oh, it's just a sausage factory and they'll turn me outlining everybody else. but that's not it. they actually-- the acquisition of something called technique is really something that is there to serve your imagination. and to get rid of your bad habits which get in the way of

making your own unique imaginative response to a text, and connect to an audience. >> people collect things, it is essential because if you have a wide range of curiosity for people and different milieus and dimp worlds and you give and receive hospitalities in places, of course you have to have what you might call a network of acquaintances and friends it is therefore important if you want a group around you, but you do so in certain numbers. you can't do it one by one, you have to have more than 365 days in the calender. but that all sounds pretty self-serving. >> rose: but it is. >> it is a thing genuine, in reconciling and to bring people

together, sometimes just like bringing you together with somebody who you might not think at a moment would give interest to you and-- you have made a new friend. it's casting, isn't it. >> rose. >> it was like somebody else passes a baseball or tennis. >> rose: that's it, in fact. you say that the idea of interesting conversation with people who have something to say is your sport and your entertainment for you. >> precisely. it's absolutely. i love the idea of having different people from different countries together, find the similarity, study the way they speak. the again yality, the mannerisms. we have to learn to speak that way. if is that sort of thing, that is so interesting about people.

>> the constitution is a legal text. it's why it is discussed in this book on interpreting legal text. nothing in the document says that the supreme court will be the last word on what it means, at least in normal times. the reason we have become the last word is set forth in mar burry versus madison. marshal says this is a legal text. judges always have to treat the situation where legal texts con tra dect one another. where the contradiction is between two statutes says john marshal, the more recent statute prevails. it has impries italy-- the older one. but where the conflict is between a statute and a superstatute, the constitution. >> rose: a canon. >> the constitution must prevail. so that's our approach to the

constitution is the same as our approach to statutes. you start with the text, it's lawyers work. it's not politicians work. it's not sewsiol guests work, it's not economists work. it's the work of interpreting, giving the fairest reading to a text. without which democracy doesn't work. i mean, you know, the only way you can have democracy in an extensive nation is through its laws. and if you don't give those written laws the meaning that they were understood to have by the people who adopted them and more importantly by the people to whom they were promul gated, democracy doesn't work. >> it was strained by 15 years of dealing with the foreign-- of my country.

and during the very difficult negotiation with the israeli and we conclude the peace treaty. >> rose: in camp david. >> in camp david. so but i was attracted by the job because of the end. cold war. and the possibility to do something through this organization. the first year i was very optimistic because i was able to-- first of all i was lucky to have a summit meeting january '92 and they asked me to prepare a position paper on peace keeping, peace making, preventive diplomacy. and it was a success. but the second year i discovered that there was a fatigue of the member states, and their action was a kind of cycle. there was less interested in peace keeping operation. there was less interesting to provide the equipment. they don't want to get involved in different peace keeping

operations all over the world. the setback in somalia can be one of the reasons. the setback in certain parts of former yugoslavia. but i believe the simplest explanation is a fatigue. >> a fatigue. >> yes. >> how do you overcome that. >> this is what you are trying to do. you are trying to show that we will be confronted by global problems. and for the time being there is only one foreign who can help the international community to solve the global problems. by global problem, i say a problem cannot be solved by one or two countries. we need the natural community environment. it cannot be solved. they need international community. >> very few people realize that bill dwier, the sports editor of the ally timed, when i told him, i said they used to have a separate championship along with

cricket club then they came to new york to play the singles championship. very few people remembered that, and they decided when open tennis came in to put them together as the u.s. open, try to emulate wimbledon but it never really worked. the doubles has not get enits fair share of time. i got my start on pbs as you, doing the u.s. doubles championships in boston. >> when nobody was doing tennis on pbs. >> nobodiment and people loved it. they thought doubles, my gosh, the action is faster, there's more to it playing doubles. it is a different game from singles. but it just can't-- and older people come up to me and say why can't we see doubles on television any more. and i say because the commercial networks are convinced nobody likes them. >> rose: i am with them too. a and don't like it and don't like to play it. >> that means are you not a thinking man's tennis player. >> rose: exactly what it means. >> play it out here on the table, rose can't play doubles. >> rose: can't play doubles, doesn't like it.

>> my mom said you are a lousy writer, son. and i said that's very kind, mom. i like critics who say that, but usually you don't hear your mother say it and she says there is a reason for it. in this book you wrote that santini was pot we are in this house. i was pot we are. he had his strengths, his brutality, but i reigned. i ruled because i knew that power was sub terrainian. i knew how to make that house hum and work. are you not a good enough novelist to catch that. >> rose: she did not live to see the prince of tides published. >> thank god, no. she did not. >> rose: she would not have liked it. >> she would not have liked that particular portrait of the mother, there is no question en she asked me if i was writing about-- i simply lied and said i wasn't. >> rose: but when she was dying she said i know you're going to put everything in your damn book. >> and she was correct. and you know, mom said-- . >> rose: didn't say damn probably. >> mom was correct in that i

think my mother knew that i was sitting there at her death bed, recording everything she was saying. so i moo mother was good. she played the character. my mother liked lady macbeth. she delivered sol il key quoo-- sol il quee from her death bed, her philosophy of life. to try to shape the portrait eventually i would portray of her death. >> being a former c.e.o. in a similar business, you say well, what does this mean to chase, morgan, and what does it mean to merrill, goldman, goldman being in a strange little nich of the partnership still. and what does it mean to the other major insurance companies. so you figure out what is the next marriage will be. you know one thing, that in the present world, if one big guy does t and this was certainly a bold stroke, the other folks are quick to fall. that's the first reaction. the second reaction i have is god, i hate this. and why do i hate it? the first reason i hate it is

because the depersonnallization of everything that i have always lived with used to be that your money was something rather private and you talked to your broker discreetly. your banker knows what your bank balance. is and a transaction with a written check or going to the bank, i now feel myself further and further-- dealing with the telephone company when the phone goes down. >> late 97y josh ramo was the writer of the story, cracked through my reticence of talking about it in public. and in 97y i became a grandfather for the first time so i had an audience for the story. so i started thinking about it. i told time magazine, and time magazine the only thing i'm going to leave for my grand children. i can do a bit better, at least i thought i could do a bit

beter. >> rose: well, you have done better. >> you had not told it before because-- look, i've been on your show a number of times. you want to talk about technology. you wanted to talk about intel, you wanted to talk about industry. >> rose: and i want to talk about you. >> i didn't want to talk about it, the circumstances. the two subjects have nothing to do with each other. everybody has a past and a legacy. mine happens to be, including wars and repression and the like, i didn't want to use that to publicize my story any more than i would like to use the intel story today to publicize my personal background. >> rose: exactly. >> i started as a writer, as we've talked about before. i started writing on sanford & son write out of college, welcome back kotter. i am at heart a writer. i began acting you know, in the mid '80s which is-- i'm sort of

a late bloomer when it comes to acting and i'm still finding my feet, so to say, if that's the expression. >> rose: that's a good one. >> well, it's a technical acting term. finding my feet. and you know, i think i would like to try directing next. i directed some episodes of the show. and i think that's a real challenge for me. but i love actors. so i think i would like to try that. and i don't-- i don't know where i will ultimately end up. >> for all of human history the wealthiest person in the world owned land, goldk oil. sometimes they have got that land by being military generals but being wealthy was the natural resources. for the last hundred years starting with rockefeller and ending with the sul tan bruni in 1996, the wealthiest person has always been associatedded with oil. then in 1997 it is bill gates. he doesn't own any land, any gold, any oil. he has no buildings.

he has no equipment. >> rose: a monopoly on a operating system. >> he has a monopoly on a knowledge system, right. and so-- . >> the idea of a different kind of order, i think, allowed us, me anyway, to think in a different way. to represent in one way, to give you that seemlessness, i thinkment and the connection between the interior, extension drk dsh exterior becomes seems. so the idea you are bringing an urban life into the interior of civic buildings. >> rose: has this profession for you been worth the struggle? >> i think so. >> rose: you think so. >> yeah, no, it is not finished. >> rose: i know but you have. >> i enjoy doing what i did. so i know it was difficult but i did not see it at the time i was doing it as a struggle. and-- . >> rose: you just thought it as a process. >> a processment and i also

really believe it's possible to make these things. so always the goal that you know, eventually we will get it done. >> this is how i dealt. he was not sent to me to intergate. another friend of ours had sent him to meet terry hayden. and they were going to match up. and he came to me. and when she saw him, she was reading actors for the play that we were going to do, this property is condemned. and she had remembered seeing him in a play. and thought that he was terrible. so she led all the young kids go, you know, the boys who were junior, the juveniles. and she said and elie wol ak is

going to play the boy and i said which one is he. and he said the gentlemen with the uniform. and i said well, terry, don't you think he's too old. she said too old, he's a brilliant actor. and when you learn to act as well as he does, then you can give me vises. or something to that effect. she said it gently. anyway that is what she meant. >> rose: then after you got together was it magic? >> well-- yes. last year at the border there is no computer. this time they checked me out right away by the computer. i was escorted by the secret police in china in a small vehicle. the vehicle is made by audi. all the secret police have a

mobile phone made by moat moat. -- motorold blanca you have to see it two different ways. one way that the economy development, the trade, the benefit, yeah, it is benefit common people. the people talking about yeah, capitalism is thriving and finally we're beating socialism and then china will totally turn into new direction, bring the-- back. well, at this moment i don't want to argue about this kind of political ideament but anyway, you have to see the other side. actually most of the profit benefit is going to-- into the government. this' why today china has the money to buy equipment, buy the technology, to advance the missile system. >> rose: you are saying most of the advantages of commerce go to strengthen the engovernment and enlarge its power.

>> yeah, that's right. >> coming in there is a different political structure in los angeles than philadelphia that you have to understand and be much more politically astute from the beginning to do your job successfully. i'm not saying that that is right or wrong. i think it's wrong in some instances but that's what is required. you have to focus far more on making sure that you touch all the bases all the time in the city of los angeles, the community, the law officers, the political side, the media because anything that can occur in los angeles i know can be on the local news by 5:00 and on a national, international news by midnight or the next morning. things that never hit the national, international wires and other big cities, philadelphia, new york, chicago, or international news in l.a >> more so than new york even. >> we probably hear and see about new york three or four times a week, at the most. sometimes not even that much out here. but people can barely have a day

where there is not an l.a.-based story around the department or something going on no matter where they are. >> michael, jordan came to the camp, second week he got injured near the end of the week, but the first week he was thresk. he only tied for the mvp. >> so you had to come and get a chance to measure themselves against their other players, young players and also a chance to kawk coaches to look at them and they get a chance to learn something too, most importantly. >> he was at another level, teaching was awesome. and it started when bob knight came as the second year of the camp, coach knight from west point, came as our head coach. and he said now we're putting in stations this week. teaching stations. we're putting in stations. going to be eight stations, eight different skills. >> rose: right. >> and we did it.

because we hadn't done that before. >> rose: so that shooting, passing, drib elling. >> passing, one-on-one moves, moving without the ball, defense. and the teaching set the camp apart from everyone else. and bob knight is totally responsible for that. >> rose: he's a good teacher? >> oh, unbelievable teacher but a great leader. great leader. >> oneful privileges of office of this office is that you can from time to time go off and do something that absolutely intrigues you, one. and in a pretty serious belief that there are a few more people interested as well. and i didn't go off, if i had a passion for slof akian stained glass windows i don't think i would have indulged my passion. >> rose: let's assume you did. could you get it on the air?

>> you know, i think i could. >> when you sit down to actually write those first sentences, it's kind of mi a miracle. did i really think of that? there st. and as you get into it you learn to kind of depend on that and trust it and go with your instincts. and as danielle-- danielle has pointed out to me and others, the characters do assume a life of their own. you find that you can't make them do something they don't want to do. they just won't. and while you are writing, your head is just full of all these people, you know. >> if i read this book, will i know something about you? >> yeah. i think every character in some way or another is me. i mean there is no other way to do it, that i can think of. and-- is definitely modeled on myself. although i do give him a lot of-- venture capitalist would never fall into the trap that he

falls in. >> i read the newspaper of every single day. and then-- . >> rose: the newspaper of every single day for how many years. >> for the period particularly from 1868 to 1877, every day. and thases' why it took-- i once had an editor who said barbara, you go to sigh beria for a safety pin to i love to research. >> rose: do you really. >> i love it. >> rose: what do you love about it? >> oh, i always say it's my breakfast at tiffany. you go into a library. you open up these old letters and diaries that nobody has looked at in years. you read this letter. the last line says-- and there it is for you, a hundred years old. and it is giving you this wonderful present. >> everybody is focusing on what

we regret as essentially peripheral issues. if you have a strength in family life in america which i think most americas would say that is a good idea. you do not do that by working on pornography and homosexuality and all these issues. what you really want to do is to give important functions back to the family. work at home, that's good. that strengthens family. education in the home, surely the parents should have a role in that. there are hundreds of thousands of americans without do homeschooling, with the coming of the pc and communications, there will be a lot more of that. medical care, intravenous antibiotics, usually you have to go to the hospital with that. she was able to get that at home. there are a whole series of functions that were taken out of the home that are now gradually migrating back into the home. if you encourage that process, it seems to me you will build a family with many important ties to the community, with many important functions. you will strengen the family. and the other issues, abortion,

pornography, homosexuality, these are devices and they also are not necessarily strengthening the family. >> i really think, charlie, the thing that i like so much about coaching is that i get to teach on a daily basis. i get to influence. i get to listen. no two days are ever alike so i love the fact that i'm working with different individuals and personalityities and now i'm trying to mold them into a team. it's a challenge but what great rewards when you see little girls become young women. when you see them go from being shy, nonaggressive, to being really strong and aggressive and just really, they gain a lot of self-respect themselves. >> and what they did for black african-americans was in a sense what did he in the autobiography

of malcolm x. he brought alive something that they had heard about, they thought about, but had never really read about or understood. and he had such magnificent story-telling skills. and when he traced the voyage of ku ntekinta from the gam beah across the social to the-- ocean to the slave quarters, he really created something that we could understand. and i like to say he helped us to not only understand but to validate our african experience. he actually put feelings to it, faces to it, names to it. >> for many years i was afraid of having children. >> rose: did you not want to bring jewish children into a world that you thought was so inhumane. >> exactly. i fell have i no right to do that. have i no right to impose my past and make it their future. but then you know how it is.

you meet a very special person and you link your life to her. the child comes. and now he is the center of our life. >> rose: and so you found what? >> hope, naturally hope. hope is something that it is essential to life. you know just as the body cannot live without-- the soul cannot live without hope. you need hope. >> cam bodia was very, very different. everybody at the american embassy privately at least acknowledged that this was a country that had been taken into war by the great powers including the united states. and was being used by everybody for their larger purposes. a surrogate battlefield. there was never any sense that anything could be won. because this country, the americans were developing a government army in order to engage north vietnamese

divisions, distract those di d-- extract those divisions so americans could withdraw with fewer casualties. which may have sounded good in washington, but it didn't do much for cam bodia. >> i guess i'm a little bit more of a glass half full guy. >> rose: you find some optimism. >> i do. and i think part of the reason that i have a degree of optimism is because i was born and raised in europe. and one should remember that the cold war was not just a question of moscow and washington discussing arms control with each other and think tanks and academics looking at-- it had real victims it had two generations of very brave east europeans who were pawns in a struggle and a quarter el that was none of their making. whose life chances were stunted and whose freedoms were diminished. and i think what one has seen

over the last ten years is a gradual process in which from the standpoint of east europeans, europe becomes nearly normal. not quite normal because as steven rightly says, i mean this is a weekend in many ways very impoverished country, terrible poverty and deprivation. but every time i go to eastern europe, bud a pest, prague, i meet people for whom the end of the cold war is nothing but good news. >> i love the show, charlie. you don't have to wear pants, see. i worry what am i going to wear, but pants, nobody sees. people say i just lecture, at columbia they say what if we want to be everything. i sayo, you see, in the book that's terrible. one thing. because nobody likes a

renaissance man who's 21. nobody believes a 21 year old renaissance person. so. >> rose: a little early to know it all. >> i do everything. do one thing. i was always basically a writer. i still am. i feel that that is why they hire me to direct. i will fix a little something. >> rose: that's my point. >> they hire me to produce. even when i ask, do i just what is written and once in a while they say maybe could you think of something. and i try to help them. but filling blank paper slt hardest thing there is. and that's what i do. >> rose: it is the hardest thing. it's harder than acting, harder than directing. >> that is why my daughter had to write the book wrz why is it so hard, do you think. >> well, because you have no excuses. well, i can't work, you're making noise. you say the kids are making noise, i can't work. because you see a director can say they won't give me a chance. the actors can say well, they gave-- he hired his daughter or have all these excuses. a guy with a pen there is really

no excuse. >> some of the best advice i got was to move into the disease. the prog ses-- progress is inevitable it is inevitable. the steed will-- speed will vary patient to paish but the needs i will have are clear. they are clear in front of me. so to the extent that i can plan, anticipate, getting for example a wheelchair fitted when you can no longer stand is next to impossible compared to trying to do it when you can move from chair to chair and try the different chairs. silly things like that. but being able to lean into the disease really important. and two, for me, i just embraced the purpose of it. my mortality, it just comes on you instantly. you understand. now the question becomes what am i going to do with the time i have left. that was the-- that was the quickest thing that happened to me. a very quick personal discussion me, myself, with what do i want to do with the time i have left

and how do i want to use it. and if i hadn't known that, you don't have the opportunity to plan that way. and for me it's made a difference. >> you come in the white house, and by a strange juxtaposition of events, the key figures on the national security council staff were-- point dexter and oliver north and i did not know them. they were not buddies. they weren't in fact even particularly good sources. however i knew of their background. i knew that we shared a common background. and suddenly in november 1986 i ran-- iran con tra blows all over the place. and right there in the heart of it are north, mcfarland and point dexter. and i said to myself in effect, what the hell is going on here. these weren't guys out of watergate. these weren't people who tried to steal an election. as far as i knew, these were men who were imbued with the highest ideals of public service.

so what was-- what were they doing in the middle of this. and that if effect set out av exploration. >> you spend a hundred bucks or more to go to the theater, something should happen to you. maybe somebody should be asking some questions about your values or the way you think about things. and maybe you should come out of a theatre with something having happened to you. maybe-- you should be changing or thinking about change. but if you just go there, the only thing you worry about is where you left the damn car, then you have wasted your hundred bucks. >> rose: you just answered the question i wanted to ask you, without me asking. what should you get out of the theater? something that tells you and confronts you with something about the life that you are living or he place you are living. >> exactly, certainly. and it should ask-- ideally the place should hold a mirror up to people and say look, this is the way you behalf. this is the way you live.

this is the way you react to things. >> rose: this is what you accept. >> if you don't like what you see here on stage, why done you change. >> i don't know, it's like where did i learn to write. where did anybody learn. where do actors learn how to act. the mechanics of directing are actually quite simple. those i got a feel for when i first started out, i went on sets doing photo journalism an i took pictures on sets and did interviews that gave me the opportunity to be around and match the machine ree move a little bit. but beyonds that, it's storytelling. whether it's with the type writer on the camera. >> that is what mi interested in. what is the difference between the mechanic, understanding the mechanics which lots of people can, and being able to tell a story well. i mean what's that about. >> i think if you can tell a story well, you can tell it with whatever the equipment is, as i say whether it's a type writer, whether it's a camera, whether it's the music, whether it's the editing. it's all part of the story

telling process. i don't really differentiate the beginning or the end which is why i like all phases of movie making equally. >> the truth is that it is such a great game. and it has been so much fun for me to be a part of it. so i think about what influenced me and what made me do some of the things that you are talking about. like the golf associations from when i started right here in the western pennsylvania area and played in the west end golf association tournaments. and then theu sga, the united states golf association. what those people, whether you like them or dislike them, what they have done to make the game so great is part of what made me do what i wanted to do and have the opportunity to do what i wanted to do. to play the game, the history of the game. and you know, those things are

so important to me. that people, talk about the galleries, people that have inspired me to do what i did and to win and to have the pleasures that i have had in my life, my wife winnie, kit, my wife now, what they have done. how they've helped me do what i have wanted to do, is so important and i am most grateful for that. and i could spend the rest of my life just thanking people for the contributions that they've made. >> i was 60 years, i am asking what took most of my time, among people an their situations. as prime minister i hardly held

the world, yes i'm a president. i don't have an administration. i don't have-- i hardly hear the word no. and they discovered that 23 people feel that you serve them, they will respond gladly, if you give an order, people will resent. if you ask them to volunteer, you will be surprised how many of them will volunteer for everything. so the greatest satisfaction is to get good will and trust. >> what we've got here is two complementary businesses and you know, maybe it's easiest to think about it by way of just example. but without interfering with the broadcasting process and without in any sense damaging it, if a show should originate at disney

world, at one point in time, i think that's a sinner gee that helps. it is a little example. i think that we have with our disney channel, we have growth in europe. and they have growth in europe. they overlap a little bit so there are some other sin erjees there. so the more we think about it, the more we're convinced that there are things that we can do better because we do them together. >> during the chicago 1968 events, a young native american was killed. that hasn't really ever been examined. and certainly some of us thought that we would be hurt, injured, killed, jailed, put away for years. a spectrum of fears. and during the trial i think our lawyers told us on the first day that we should expect ten years with good time, maybe seven,

maybe five. and. >> but during the trial i think you just put your head down and you work on the case and see what happens. >> you evolve. >> we were successful. >> i didn't know that when i was covering the boston school committee in 197 will when-- my first job out of college and watched the way that school busing created such clashes in boston, i didn't know that that was going to be a theme that i could track through suburban baltimore and washington and throughout my entire career. and from the point of view of black candidates and white candidates where race is always going to be the clash, the tipping point, the clash, the flash point. and so when it all came together, the a bomba campaign provided a frame for a story it turns out i had been writing my whole life. >> when he first had success was the days of acid rock. and his songs were so totally out of what was popular at the

time. and through the years no matter what the current popular music was, he stuck to singing of nature, of children, and his music came out of folk music and i think he developed it and made it into a personal and very moving sort of communication with people. >> occasionally have i a good idea and usually give it to somebody else. >> yes, no, i'm not that creative. i'm creative enough that usually we know something when i hear it if it is good or bad. i am lucky enough to be attracted to very creative people. and i love to hang around. and i think that's-- that has value because they like to be

appreciatedded. >> what of those that you-- they just do things, writing in the case of burns & brooks soany others. they just do it a little better than some of the other guys. >> or maybe it is the people. there is a chemistry of some kind to which i have a reaction. and that is not a skill by any means. obviously. it's just my good fortune. >> if i can encourage other people into encourage their kids into something that they want to do as i was encouraged when i was a kid, then that's great. and if people recognize me and can i use it for that purpose, i think that's fine. >> rose: are you born with courage or can you acquire it through training? >> i think courage is i think courage is almost all acquired through training, would be my view. you are born way certain amount of courage and i think as you grow up, you grow up in a small town, you get a lot of confidence in your own ability

because of all the different things you do. that is part of it. but i think the best way to avoid being afraid, the best way to have courage to do something is to train and train and train. >> for more about this program and earlier episodes advice sit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

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