>> rosewelcome to the program. i'm jeff glor of cbs news filling in for charlie rose while he's away. we begin with roger stone. >> what you see is what you get this, the man the american people elected and i think these things have to be seen in some historical perspective -- crude, ignorant, uninformed, a wild man -- this is what they said about andrew jackson, an ego maniac, a guy who's constantly lying, these are things they said about theodore roosevelt, buone of our other greatest presidents, so it's hard in the eye of the storm to assess these things. i think it's kind of outrageous that people are trying to sum up the administration when the man massent even been president for two weeks yet. give him a chance.

>> we continue with the consideration of the senate's confirmation of betsy devos. >> when it came down to it, mitch mcconnell was not going to get the votes he feed to confirm devos as education secretary. over the weekend, there was a lot of agitating, a lot of democrats and constituents calling and hoping they could remove one more defector from the republican side to tip the nomination over, but in the end it seemed like it was going to be just those two republicans. >> we turn to charlie's interview with brad stone, author of "the upstarts." >> upstart could be a business or a person who creates something new, but it has a secondary meaning where it has a negative cono nation, disrespect of the status quo. airbnb an uber, you can look at both ways. >> we continue with nirav tolia,

c.e.o. of nextdoor. >> nextdoor, it's not something that's a new own violation. all we've done is create a technology tool that's made it easy to break the ice and come together. it's less about technology and more of the realization that if we can easily stay in touch with our neighbors, what are the things we can do to create stronger neighborhoods. can we take a divided world and have constructive dialogue about the issues that matter. >> politics, education and start ipsiwhen we continue. >> rose: >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications

from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> glor: i'm jeff glor of cbs news filling in for charlie rose who is away tonight. roger stone, longtime advisor and friend of president trump. his new book is called "the making of the president 2016, how donald trump orchestrated a revolution." welcome back. >> great to be here. >> glor: you've known the president for how long? >> i met him in 1979 when i organized ronald reagan's campaign for president. i was introduced to him by his attorney and was trying to put together a statewide campaign. i needed a finance committee, headquarters, telephone, so on. and cohn arranged an appointment for me. donald likes politics the way he likes sports, he follows it

carefully. i said, president trump, i'm roger stone. he said, please, call me donald. i called him the day after inauguration and said, mr. president, congratulations. he said, please, call me donald. >> glor: you met him in his early 30s. i wonder if he's changed since then. >> he has changed. he's calmer and has a great deal more experience. i wanted him to run for president as early as 1988, more earnestly in 2000 and certainly in 2012, but in retrospect, i think 2016 was the perspective storm. >> rose: when do you think he first started thinking about that? there is the "60 minutes" clip with mike wallace in the mid '80s. i'm not sure whether he was going for a presidential look or not, one bit. you first met him in the late '70s. when do you think he thought about first start running for

president? >> i think he took a serious look at it in 2000. ross perot and jesse ventura encouraged the him to look at the reform party nomination. like me, he was dissatisfied with the choice between al gore and george bush, and he, you know, concluded correctly that one can probably not be elected as a third-party candidate in this country. one probably needs to be a republican or a democrat because third-party candidates have to spend an enormous amount of money just to get on the ballot, and then there is the question of getting into the debates which has been impossible for third-party candidates and then, lastly, you start with no base. one thing he was always consistent about, i don't want to run unless i have a shot to win. >> glor: do you think today he feels most comfortable in one of the two major parties or in a different party in that ideal world for him?

for you? >> i think his nomination was the hostile takeover of the republican party because i think he feels, and i agree, the party has left its moorings as the party of smaller government and strong national defense, personal liberty. he's going, i think, now, to remake the party in his image, as all republican presidents have done, whether it is lincoln, theodore roosevelt, dwight ions hawks -- dwight eisenhower, richard nixon. >> rose: plan? he's a man of action. it's surprising to washington because, my god, the idea of a political figure who actually does what they said they would in the campaign is unheard of. george h.w. bush, read my lips, no new taxes, right up until the

time he raids taxes. so i think the washington establishment is more than used to elected officials who say one thing in the campaign for rhetorical or political purposes but, when they get to washington, they abandon that agenda. anybody who thinks that trump is going to do that doesn't understand donald trump. when he sets his mind on a goal, he's an extraordinarily stubborn, focused individual. he's going to take on this agenda. >> glor: as you well know, washington for better or worse is not necessarily designed for speed. >> that's true. >> glor: and, so, there is going to have to be some coming together or compromise or not. i don't know. is he -- is he expecting or is the administration expecting to bull doze what they can through, or do you believe -- i mean, you've said, i think, that the administration's potential biggest enemy is republicans.

>> conceivably. >> glor: if they don't cooperate, it could be trouble for the president and the administration. so if you're advising him right now on the best approach, and if the situation looks rocky with republicans, what do you tell him? >> well, first of all, i think that he will do as much as he possibly can through executive order. the trail has been blazed on this by none other than barack obama. therefore, those liberals screaming about his executive orders live by the sword, die by the sword. when it comes to legislative process, you have a republican president who won't be afraid to take on the republicans in congress, if that's what it takes. i frankly think in the campaign, when paul ryan attempted to put distance between himself and donald trump in the closing weeks of the campaign, that turned out to be a plus. he really was liberated. he is not a captive of the

elites of either party and, unlike previous republican presidents, while they had no compunction to taken to the democrats, if they have to take on the republicans, donald trump's ability to go directly to the people over the heads of all politicians i think may be unique in our time. >> glor: what has earn couraged or concerned you in the first few weeks? >> i obviously don't like the leaks out of the white house. >> glor: where are those coming from? >> it's impossible to say, but when you hire people who are not loyal to you or you hire people who didn't support your candidacy, i think you run this risk. it is disserving the president who hired you to leak. i am a good friend and have a very high regard for steve bannon. he's not a leaker, there's just no question about that. so the leaks are coming from elsewhere, and it's very disloyal to the president.

>> glor: bannon has gotten, as you've seen, a fair amount of attention in recent times. is there anyone right now that's listening to -- that he is listening to more closely than steve bannon? >> well, in all honesty, i think it's the other way around. i mean, this meme that bannon is trump's brain and bannon is really the de facto president, that's nonsense. that steve bannon and donald trump are copesetic, that they have a similar world view, there is no doubt about that, but, in fact, i think bannon is merely implementing what donald trump laid out in the campaign. nobody puts word in donald trump's mouth. nobody makes up his mind for him. i've known him 40 years, he is his own man. he'll listen to others and take in advice, but at the end of the day -- i hate to borrow this from george w. bush -- but trump is the decider and he is not a merrionette for anyone and he is

his own man and not beholden to anybody but the american people. >> glor: in other words, he's not going to change. the person campaigning for president and the person you see as president-elect and on twitter and other places is still the president and not going to change. >> what you see is what you get. this is the man the american people elected and i think these things have to be seen in some historical perspective -- crude, ignorant, uninformed, a wild man, this is what they said about andrew jackson. an ego maniac, a guy who's constantly lying, things they said about thee door roosevelt, bun -- theodore roosevelt, bun e of our other great presidents. it's hard to assess these things in the eye of the storm. it's outrageous people trying to sum up the administration when the man hasn't been president for two weeks yet. give him a chance. >> glor: a lot of focus on

jared kushner his son-in-law and his role in the white house. how do you see that? >> well, the president has confidence in jared kushner and, therefore, i think mr. kushner has the ability to play an important role. on the other hand, mr. kushner is discreet about his advice to the president. that's the way it's supposed to be. so i can't tell you what advice he's giving the president, i shouldn't be able to tell you. the airing of dirty laundry in public by people who work for the president through leaks likely disserves him. that is something jared kushner will never do. so he has the president's trust, he's highly capable, and he doesn't leak. i think he's going to do great. >> glor: the president talks about this movement, you call it a revolution. i wonder, does he want to unit the country, bring people together, or is the main focus you're playing to the base? >> i think he understands that if he is successful in

revitalizing our economy first and foremost, then he'll have the tools to bring us together. nothing makes people happier than a job and, therefore, i think he understands that, no matter what the chattering classes say, if he delivers on the big picture things that he said he would do, or at least he heads in that direction because these problems go back 30, 40 years, they cannot be solved overnight, that that's the single best way to unit the country. many times in the campaign, he would say, you know, after a year or two, you will see, i'm going to do a good job, you will see. i think that's exactly right. he's a manager, he's a pragmatist. i just argue he needs to be given a chance. >> glor: the unemployment rate is very low right now. a lot of people have jobs. >> the unemployment rate appears to be low because we've taken the people who stopped looking for work out of it. in other words, we rigged the numbers to make them look lower than they are. >> glor: the relationship with

the media has been a big topic in recent times, whether the media wants to talk about that or not, or anybody wants to talk about that and everybody just wants to keep doing their jobs, i think. the media's been a target. it's been the very, very dishonest press. how has his position on the press evolved over the years you've known him? >> well, obviously, his relations with the press have benefited him enormously. the fact that he came to this race with universals name i.d. perhaps enhanced by 15 seasons on "the apprentice" is an enormous asset. i like marco rubio, but first he had to tell people who he was before he could tell people what he wanted to do. trump had no such stop. extreme knew exactly who he was coming in the door. but i also think that this election was the one in which we reached the tipping point, and, therefore, the mainstream media,

which has enjoyed a monopoly on the dissemination of political information and lost that monopoly, it's been broken, perhaps because of technological advances, more people getting their political information from a handheld device than a television set. therefore, abc, cbs, nbc and the two cable networks have lost a lot of their strength and viewers as voters move to alternative media, not just conservative alternative media, but all alternative media -- net-based, radio-based and so on. if that were not true, i don't think he would have been able to win this election. i think it's the fact we have demassfied the media through technological advance that allowed a broader cross section of sources for voters.

in many ways, i think that is the key to donald trump's election. >> glor: do you think the media is dishonest. >> some members of he media are exceedingly dishonest. some of them have no journalistic ethics. i don't want to mention names, but for cnn to let john podesta to go on in prime time before the election and accuse me of having advance knowledge of the wikileaks and the hacking of his email and then come back on after the election and repeat it and afford me to opportunity to respond, that's not journalism. that's opinion. cbs, to their credit, when these charges were made, they sent a camera, they recorded my response and they played both of them back-to-back. that's what real news organizations do. >> glor: in fairness, you've also said dumb things about people on cnn and you've apologized for these. >> i've apologized for most of them, that's true. who among us is perfect? >> glor: you know, i was

fascinated by this clip, this old clip i saw from meet the press and it was tom brokaw talking to richard nixon years ago, in '88. you worked for president nixon, yes, .>> yes, i did. >> glor: brokaw asked him if there was anything he would have done differently. nixon's response is i suppose i could have treated the press better. he followed by saying i suppose they could have treated me better, too. >> that's a good line. >> glor: i wonder if at some point you think president trump might say something like that. ddo you leave room for that possibility? >> well, first of all, it was a very different time. the mainstream media monopoly was in full swing when richard nixon was president and, therefore, he took them on anyway despite the peril of that. in this case, the media is now much broader than it was. frankly, keeping reporters

honest and some news organizations honest is not a bad thing, but this election, i think, is also the first one in which the majority of the voters figured out that big media was in bed with the big establishment and that, to a great extent, many in the media parrot the establishment line. so the president has no choice but to take them on, and he's a fighter. he has enormous courage. sure, i think he will be complimentary to those he thinks are covering him fairly, but he's not at all hesitant to take on those who thinks are not covering him fairly. >> glor: so the approach then in the first couple of weeks is break some glass and then reassess from there. i know you're not inside the white house right now so you can't speak to what jared

kushner, steve bannon and reince priebus are telling him right now, but is that as far as you can gather one strategy, is that they come out really strong on just about everything and then figure out where you can back off a little bit? >> first of all, i think that it would be presumptuous to assume they have a strategy that's that macavalian. if he can continue to take the strides he's taken in a big picture way, all this other stuff is noise. whether the president is wearing a bathrobe when he's in the living quarters of the white house, i don't think any voter cares. i really don't. so it's not going to change. it will be out there, but if he's making progress on his agenda and the people are happy about it, it won't matter.

>> glor: that was an interesting article. >> it was. very controversial. >> glor: yeah. do you think that's a bad idea all the way around? >> in terms of -- >> glor: articles like that. well, look, i'm not -- it was too long of an article for me to recall all of it -- >> glor: who's leaking information about bathrobes? >> somebody who works for the president and is disloyal to him. >> glor: what are you telling him right now? if you're talking about the -- it is pretty amazing that -- it is two weeks, isn't it if a little more than two weeks. >> p hmm. >> glor: if you're talking to them right now and you may very well be, are you saying rash et it down a little -- ratchet it down a bit, or increase the volume, speed and efforts? >> first of all, i consider any conversation i might have with the president to be privileged and proprietary and private. i think the fastest way you can

end those conversations is by leaking. >> i take kind of neither position. i like where the president's going now. stay focused on your agenda, do as much as you can through executive order and then get ready to unveil a legislative program and go fight for it. his ability to use his twitter feed of 16 million people, to speak in an unfiltered way to the american people is an enormous asset. i don't have any false hopes about how easy it will be to move his agenda. we have had from the bush-clinton-bush-obama continuum endless war, erosion of our civil liberties, massive spending and debt, an immigration system that's left our neighborhoods and our communities unsafe, trade policies that have, as ross

perot said, sucked the jobs out of america, and a foreign policy in which we appear to be going out of our way to strengthen and embolden and arm our enemies and undercut our friends. there is a lot there that donald trump is going to challenge. that's the 30-year orthodoxy of the two major parties working together. undoing that overnight will be very difficult, but that's the fight that i think h he faces. >> rose: do you think he should be using the twitter account in different ways while in a governing position as opposed to a campaigning position? >> again, it doesn't matter what i think. >> glor: well, listen, he listens to long-time friends and takes the friendship seriously. so that's why i'm asking. >> a lot of people said it's not presidential and he ought to give it up just like a lot of

people told him he should give up his cell phone. you know, when our presidents have become isolated, richard nixon being the best single example, they lose touch with what the people are thinking. that's the single most dangerous thing that can happen. i think trump's greatest strength is while he's a billionaire, he's not an elitist, therefore, he speaks easily with people regardless of what strata from society comes from. he would rather have lunch with a group of cab drivers than fortune 500 executives. he both likes people and he's very likable. he has a great sense of humor, is fun to be with, he relates well to people. so i think ehe's going to be himself. this whole idea he needs to change and become more presidential, i reject that. he is the man we elected, and i think people will be pleased with his -- with his progress on issues and all this other stuff becomes a sideshow that the voters really don't care about.

>> glor: roger stone, the book is called "the making of the president 2016: how donald trump orchestrated a revolution." appreciate your time. >> thanks for having me. >> glor: welcome to the program. i'm jeff glor sitting in for charlie rose. we look at betsy devos as education secretary. senate confirmed voss with a tie breaking vote from vice president mike pence. it marked the first occasion for the vice president to break a tie on a cabinet nomination. o republicans senator collins of maine and lissa krakow ski voted against the devoss nomination due to her limit experience with the public school system. emmarie huetteman joins me from the "new york times." thanks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> glor: one of the more unusual and controversial

confirmation processes we've seen in quite some time i wonder if you can tell me, was it all still a question up to the end here? >> a lot of democrats would like to think that but really when it came down to this, mitch mcconnell would not bring this to the floor without getting the votes he needed to confirm betsy devos as education secretary. over the weekend, there was a lot of agitating, a lot of democrats, a lot of constituents calling and hoping they could woo one more defector from the republican side to tip the nomination over, but in the end seemed like it was just going to be those two republicans. >> glor: how much effort did it take from mcconnell's side to keep those 50 on his side? >> it's unclear, but clear they were doing a little arm twisting behind the scenes. they were holding out for a long time in scheduling the vote for one thing which indicated perhaps they were trying to keep things a little up in the air or democrats on their toes. however, in the end, i think that he was able to look at it and say we can bring vice president pence in and he can put through the tie breaking

vote and in that case senators collins and mer cowski could vote their conscience. >> glor: what moved them? they described it as their lack of familiarity with public schools. they come from rural districts and the problem with this as far as betsy devos goes is she's a proponent of school choice. school choice is great if you have a lot of schools close to each other and parents and families can decide which school to kenned send their child to but when you have the big districts it's hard to choose your school because it's hard to get to another school. in a many cases the senators looked ate and thought it was too difficult for my constituents to get to the schools and isn't interested in improving the school system we have so far. >> glor: the trump system made

bold moves so far. what do you expect from devoss in her first time to office? >> betsy devoss said i'm looking at a couple of obama administration policies, one whether for profit colleges would get enough federal funding based on whether enough students were getting into the employment force. also one that that did to do with sexual assault on campuses. she said it was premature to commit to following through on a more aggressive adjudication process for campus sexual assault. >> glor: as you've reported on and seen, a lot of concern from pool advocates over what the incoming secretary might do. do you have any indications beyond what we just talked about here about how betsy devos might navigate those waters and what she might do? >> she has some options but most end with congress. congress has really offered a limited appetite as far as going

forward on for example school vouchers. in 2015 they approved an overhaul of the education system that didn't include vouchers thursday indicating a limited appetite for them among lawmakers and, really, she's going to have to come to congress if she wants a lot of approval for her plans. she can do some things through administration which is to overturn some of the rules i mentioned. >> glor: how much appetite in congress is there for some of these changes? >> some. the fact she was a controversial figure doesn't help her. when she comes to talk to lawmakers, they're going to remember it was a tough confirmation process and two republicans were willing to defect against her which makes it harder for her to convince them. however, she does have those connections now at least, so i guess we'll see going forward what she can manage with them. >> glor: how is the incoming secretary handling these conflict of interest issues that

came up? i know she reorganized her finances, divested herself of whatever she thinks she needed to do. but are there outstanding issues that remain? >> there are some concerns. she did say she would step down from the board of at least one company she and her husband are a part of, however she retains her investment in that company. there is a pretty entafngled web of financial investments. she's an heir to her family fortune, the amway fortune and multiple interests all over the place and potential for pi pitfalls. >> rose: if the incoming secretary is designing her ideal school system in america for scratch, what is that betsy devos system? >> she's indicated she's interested in making sure that in that ideal system people can choose which school it is. she hasn't given many specifics as far as what that school looks like, and i think that's where some of the concerns about her

as education secretary really come from. >> glor: and, so, the choice being a variety of different schooling options including what? >> current schools that are privately run, religiously run, run by for profit organizations are all schools she said she wanted to h in her career so far divert federal funds to to make sure students could get the education they wanted. >> glor: has she then most focused on primary education on kids when they're younger or college education? >> it seems she's been mostly focused on younger children, which is right in line with the department of education's purview. she spent a lot of time in particular looking at families and the young students who are a part of them. in particular, she's talked about low-income families because she's concerned can about their school choice access and a lot of people on the other side, people have criticized her

say that th problem with that, of course, is that she's not looking at the fact that if you give school vouchers to some of these families they can't necessarily come the rest of the way to funding their tuition. >> glor: what do you expect teacher unions will do now that she has been confirmed and will serve as education secretary? >> they've told us they will keep fighting. they don't consider this the end of the road by any means. they've shown their willingness to protestnd said they would keep showing up at their public appearances, forums at schools. they say they're trying to look for pro public education candidates for school boards, legislatures and have made it clear if she has any missteps they will be there to remind people of it. >> glor: what can betsy devos change or dismantle inside the system if anything without congressional approval when she takes over? >> she can look at some of these obama administration rules that were put in place from the

executive branch policies part of implementing laws that came from congress. it's in the purview of the agency to interpret the laws and put them in place. she can look at the rules and decide how she will go forward, set her own, roll back some potentially. trump administration said they're interested in rolling back in obama rules. >> glor: thanks very much. thanks for having me. >> rose: brad stone is here. new book gies readers inside look at two of the most largest and successful startups in silicon valley, uber and airbnb, $68 billion and $30 billion valuations respectively. pleased to have brad stone back

at the table. "the upstarts." what's an upstart? >> i have fun in the book with a double meaning. an upstart can be a new business or person who creates something new but also a secondary meaning where there is a negative connotation, disrespectful of the status quo and established leader. when you take about airbnb and uber, you can look at them different ways. they created a lot of value, a lot of opportunity for drivers or homeowners but, you know, there are certain -- there is the opposition who would say that they have been disrespectful and, of course -- >> rose: no more disrespectful than amazon or anybody else. those companies are disruptive by nature. >> that's right. amazon's a great example, but uber and airbnb bring the realm of the digital into the physical world as amazon did. unlike a lot of other companies, they encountered a thicket of

local regulation that's different in every city and had battles. the entrepreneurs of the past had to be geeky and these guys had to be politicians at every step. >> rose: they were trying to protect their own local industries. >> companies who had basically made a living out of influences local politicians and getting regulators to focus on their needs. >> rose: and each have competitors. >> uber a little more. you've got lyft and you've got everyone working on driverless cars. airbnb, i'd put them in the amazon category in that they seem to have managed to establish a global network effect and, so, if i'm going to list the competitors of airbnb, i'm thinking of expedia or priceline, the big travel companies who don't quite do what airbnb does in terms of

home sharing, they do some of it. >> rose: what is the sharing economy? >> the misnomer. uber drivers aren't sharing their car necessarily, and a lot of airbnb are professional operators. i call it the trust economy. they're bringing strangers together. we never used to talk to our taxi drivers. you get in a car and almost always talk to your uber driver. >> rose: they do take an interest in you don't they. >> most people like to quiz their uber and lyft driver and see how they're doing. so in a weird way, it's kind of brought people closer together, but the sharing economy to me never quite fit. >> rose: who are the other companies? >> i would count lyft there, spent the last chapter talking about the rise of didi. >> rose: in china. yeah, the four companies copying uber emerged as winner. >> rose: most other companies are doing the same thing they're

doing. >> i think that's right. the other companies to eemerge from this period in activity and still come out like snapchat and slack are different, more in the mold of the previous generation of silicon valley, purely digital software focus. to me, this is uber and airbnb and smaller players drafting in their wake. >wake. >> rose: for a while uber ran into criticism. was that coming from the fact that in neighborhood communities they were taking work away from taxi companies and others? >> it started there. >> rose: then what happened? well, so there was big pushback from regulators, taxi drivers, fleet owners. but we also like to see from our tech knoll entrepreneurs a little bit of maybe mod city and travis cal neck, a true visionary and amazing operation, but also arrogant, right, a hard

driver, a competitor, and, you know, they got into troubles. there were missteps along the way. >> rose: what did they do? i run through the litany in the book, but let's take one, a competitive tactic called slogging. what it was was uber had a campaign to have lyft drivers to offer them incentives to basically defect and when these kind of tactics, you know, maybe fair play, it's a tough world, but when they became public, the exact things uber was doing, people started to say, well, maybe that's not my kind of company. fair or not, i think the negative reputation spiraled on something they battled with. i think uber matured a ton as a company but we've seen recently, you know, for example in the elite uber campaign around the trump immigration executive order that people -- there are some people out there that still have a negative impression around uber and are looking for -- >> rose: tell me about silicon valley and the action that has

risen against the immigration orders. >> in a remarkable way -- >> rose: the leaders. and the employees. there was a protest of thousands of google employees recently. i think a couple of things, one, these are blue-state companies. i think not many people in california wanted to eesee the -- wanted to see the outcome we have. so there is the opposition. >> rose: it seems to me -- i mean, there was a genuine sense they feel not because they're democrats but they feel that immigration has given them the valuable core in part of their businesses. >> that's exactly right. >> rose: computer scientists who came here, trained and were able to stay. >> right, immigrants are in the dna of silicon valley, from the c.e.o. of microsoft to intel. you go to any company in silicon valley and these are multi-national corporations that

draw a lot of their entrepreneurial energy from overseas. so, you know, they're protective of their employees. this is limiting the ability of some employees, limiting the potential to hire people from overseas, so, i think, you know, started with mike zuckerberg's post on facebook and we saw one by one these companies fall into line. almost to a point. the companies that didn't make a tough enough statement i think saw pressure from their employees and then came along and did better. amazon tepidly. and over the course of a couple of days added their name to a lawsuit by the attorney general in the state of washington and jeff made a stronger statement to its employees. oosh strengthen the statement there is a little herd mentality, but you feel it, the tech industry is passionately against the idea of restricting immigration. >> rose: some like to draw a difference between someone like

travis or brian or bill gates and saying gates and company, zuckerberg,er are more geeky, and these guys are more salespeople, marketing people. >> they had to be. they had to be story tellers. not only were they talking to regulators in every city, but they were trying to enlist their customers in the political blocs. the only way they were ever legal in the city of washington, d.c. is because travis personally got thousands of customers to email every member of the city council and tweeted them. these city council members thought the city was caving in on them they were getting so much mail and dropped some of the restrictive things they planned. i feel like the upstart cree c.e.o.s that did to be different. we talked to mark zuckerberg in the early days, brilliant but not story tellers. so travis and -- they wouldn't have gotten out of the gate. >> rose: where is silicon

valley now in terms of, you know, there is much talk now. you had facebook, the big five, you know, the big five being amazon, apple, google, microsoft, now you've got artificial intelligence, which it seems to me, and virtual reality, these are things these guys are simply buying into and using for an increasing competitive advantage. >> right. at one point last summer the five most valuable companies in the world by market cap were the five giants that we just named, and then things happened and berkshire hathaway and exxon moved away with microsoft and amazon, but that's the fiewvment these are the largest companies of the world, and the tent polls of the century, they're not going away and maybe uber and airbnb can join the ranks. when it comes to a.i. and virtual reality, some of that might be overhyped, but you look at amazon's echo the talking device people put in their

homes. my kids love it. it's a remarkable device. it's getting better and better. >> rose: how do they use it? talk to it, ask it questions. we play music. >> rose: everything else. everything. they're growing up knowing they can speak to computers. it's totally for to every other generation. i feel silicon valley goes in seven-year cycles. we're attend of this one. we're seeing uber and airbnb and sphap chat will go public soon. usually there is dips. the next wave is definitely coming around the corner. >> rose: what might that be? it seems to me there is not one company that sort of is just all about a.i. a.i. is something all these companies are about. >> it may be these five jugger astronauts are so big they're almost disruption proof at least for the short term, and instead of new companies being minted,

we'll see them all strengthening their position. not just amazon, it's the five we mentioned, i.b.m., sales force. they're also so richly capitalized now that they buy smaller companies as soon as they see promise. >> rose: the interesting thing about amazon, which you wrote the book about amazon, it is that jeff had a seven-year runway to develop the enterprise aspect of his business, where they had total freedom to develop something that now i think is the largest component of their business. >> getting close. i think retail is probably bigger. but amazon almost alone and maybe facebook and google enjoy some of this but has space for investors who aren't enjoying short-term -- >> rose: and amazon. and wal-mart. >> rose: wal-mart is not competitive in the enterprise zone. >> without a doubt. >> rose: they were in the cloud before microsoft and

almost everybody certainly with the scale they have. >> they've got a big lead and microsoft and google are hoping to catch up. i go back to the 1998 shareholder letter, the first one jeff wrote saying he wasn't going to focus on profits, he was going to focus on cash flow. he's like a batter who called his shot and has been hitting in the same spot ever since and the investors he has are in it for the long term and they let him take these experiments. >> rose: is the valley libertarian or something else in terms of how it sees politics? >> looking awfully democrat. >> rose: it is. classically we thought of it as libertarian. >> rose: peter teal gave it that connotation. >> to me, it looks very democratic now. the valley got behind hillary clinton. if there was any division, it was between hillary and bernie sanders. >> rose: peter used to say, among others, you should take

donald trump seriously but not literally, and some of his friends are saying, you know what, peter, you had it wrong, you should take it literally. >> it seems he was literal in some of the things he promised. >> rose: what do they worry about? >> well, he made some if you want to cull them threats and antitrust enforcement. eric sh schmidt, we saw him go into trump tower a couple of times. not a lot of word to show for it. we'll see who trump appoints for the department of justice. one thing i would point out. >> rose: are you suggesting the president might initiate antitrust action against jeff because the "post" is attacking

him? >> he said it explicitly in the campaign. he said he thought jeff was using "the washington post" to distract people from amazon's anti trust problems. that is nearly a direct quote. >> rose: what about bill gates' impact now that he's come back a little bit, a new leader at microsoft and taking on a new role? is he having an impact or can you tell? >> i think microsoft found its footing, the financial performance is great and it's catching up to amazon and the cloud and doing lots of things in its enterprise business. to the extent that i kind of follow our coverage there at bloomberg, i a new discipline hs been instilled in microsoft and given the employees a reason to believe in the company. >> rose: "the upstarts."

brad stone. thank you. >> thanks, charlie. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: nirav tolia is here, co-founder and c.e.o. of nextdoor, allows neighbors to connect with each other about issues that affect their communities. it doesn't connect members to their own preferences and favorites but simply through proximity. over 125,000 neighborhoods across the u.s. use it to find local resources such as baby sitters, plumbers and dentists. the service also encourages neighbors to report criminal activity. i'm pleased to have nirav tolia at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you for having me, charlie. >> rose: so where did you get this idea? >> we all use social networks. we use facebook for friends, linkedin for professional profiles, twitter to find people who are interesting. it's funny while technology has done a great job connecting us

to people who live far away from us or people we don't know, it hasn't done a lot to connect us to people outside our front doors and that's the inspiration for nextdoor, to improve the community around us. >> rose: you believe they can reach each other better through nextdoor or twitter or any other service. >> it's a different modality of use. facebook is for your friends. when started the company nextdoor, almost 30% of americans couldn't name a single neighbor by name. so much less than friends, we didn't know our neighbors. so we need add different platform to connect us with the people around us even though we didn't know who they were. >> rose: did you go to a neighborhood and give ate whirl? >> we started simply. we had a neighborhood memo park that we felt was interested in the concept. they were using a mailing list

prior. we talked to them about why they'd want to communicate, things they want to talk about -- sharing tips on plumbers, asking for recommendations on baby sitters, form ago neighborhood watch dnr and we took the things they wanted and tried to re-create a tool that would use technology, that would use the mobile phone so that you can carry your neighborhood in your pocket in a sense, and after listening to them, we became very convinced that even though it's not new to talk with your neighbors, there is a new way that you can facilitate that and that's using the internet. >> rose: do you rate them whether a plumber or baby sitter or another service? >> one of the biggest use cases is neighbors asking for the best service provider whether a plumber, baby sitter, doctor or dentist. that's a handy way to find a service provider. >> rose: what's the business model? >> like all other social networks, the service is free for consumers, but we believe there is a great opportunity to connect those neighbors to local businesses in the form of

advertising. >> rose: so it's an advertising model. >> that's correct. >> rose: how have you grown? from community to community or state by state? >> well, it's been one neighborhood at a time. so the first year, it took us quite a while to get up and running. we had about 175 neighborhoods in about 20 states using nextdoor. today we've got over 125,000 in all 50 states and that's over 75% of all the neighborhoods in the country. >> rose: how do you define a neighborhood? >> we don't define the neighborhoods, our members do. if you come to nextdoor and enter your aired we'll tell you whether there is a neighborhood available that's already working or whether you would like to start one. if you want to start one, we help you draw a boundary, a geospatial boundary. we help you name the neighborhood and most importantly in the first 21 days you have to get nine of your neighbors to join you and all verify your addresses and have a launched nextdoor neighborhood. >> rose: seems like a fundamental idea, connecting neighbors.

local newspapers connect neighbors in a way. have other people tried and failed? >> well, the beauty of the idea is that it is fundamental and simple and when we started the company there were probably 50 competitors. we are just exceptionally fortunate that we are the funds that have emerged as the leader, in fact, in all 125,000 neighborhoods that used nextdoor, we are the only service they use in thesea3 neighborhoods. so it's taken us quite a while, but we knew that the need existed and i it wasn't a complicated or innovative need, it was a simple one and that's the need for community. >> rose: warren buffett was here talking about growing businesses and how necessary it was to create a mote around them. do you have a mote around your business? >> the mote is we don't know our neighbors. so if there is a service that now gives you access to your neighbors, that's the service you continue to use. if you think about other social networks, especially facebook, it's possible to create a kind of facebook because you carry

around your facebook friends on your phone. you have an address book. in your address book you don't have the information about your neighbors. if you lose your dog and you need to contact people, nextdoor is the place you go. once nextdoor is established in the neighborhood and there is some kind of liquidity, some density, some critical mass, it is a powerful mode. >> rose: what's the notion of dedicated service reporting crime? >> there it is a big use for the case of nextdoorer which we called virtual neighborhood watch which is the idea to come together with your neighbors and help everyone feel safer whether in a time of crime or natural disaster. >> rose: how does that work? very simple. if you see something you think is suspicious, potentially criminal or something that should be reported to your neighbors, you can now post it to people and do so in a right way that's informative to all your neighbors. even if you're not in the neighborhood you can keep tabs on everything that's going on.

>> rose: do you connect or come up against racial profiling at all? >> yeah, when we started our company, we had no idea. as time went on, we became aware neighbors saying a dark man is breaking into a car had unintentionally racially profiled against all dark skinned people. we took it seriously, were saddened, shocked and convinced we had to do something about it. not only did we state this was unacceptable on the platform, we completely overhauled the product. we saw 75% reduction in problematic racial profiling type posts. we know the work is not done but any find of racial profile, anything that's divisive is completely antithetical to the sort of community we hope to create. >> rose: you're in the netterhands and expect to be in the u.k. >> we launched in the u.k.

all four countries. >> rose: you called it the gateway to europe? >> for tech companies. if you look to facebook, going oral any of the big multi-national players, they find the u.k. to be their second largest audience and second most valuable audience from a moditization stoipt so it's critical for us to be strong in the u.k. >> rose: we're constantly here at this program looking at what new platforms might be and obviously looking at new things causing a lot of attention whether artificial intelligence or virtual reality, what kinds of things like that might affect what you do? >> one of the really interesting things about next door is it's not a new idea talking with neighbors. it's not something that is a new innovation. all we've done is create a technology tool that makes it easy to break the ice and come together. in terms of what we think is new, it's less about technology and more this realization that

if we can easily stay in touch with our neighbors what are all the things we can do to create stronger and safer neighborhoods? can we take a world that seems increasingly divided and can we have constructive dialogue about the issues that matter? that's what we're focused on. >> rose: essentially you're saying can we create community? >> that's actually the mission of the company to bring back a sense of community to the neighborhood, and if you feel a sense of community in the rose: thank you for coming. rose: great to have you here. thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes,. visit us online at pbs.org and arlierose.com. #

this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. fund in the part by -- >> all it takes is a spark. one idea to take flight. the courage to seek the unknown toxin over 58. to, i to innovate. to explore a different perspective. we detect world. its ideas. its capital. its businesses. the people that drive global economy. the future isn't tomorrow. it's right now. all it takes is a spark. nasdaq. presidential pressure, intel invests $7 billion in an arizona plant even as other companies continue to move some of their operations to