>> glor: welcome to the program, i'm jeff glor of cbs news. as many of you know, charlie will undergo heart val of replacement sirnlgry tomorrow and will spend several weeks recovering. charlie writes to continue to live this amazing life so full of challenges and friends, including so many of you in the audience, i have chosen to replace my val of with a new one. the timing is my choice, i will see you in march. during charlie's absence this program will continue with a series of guest hosts sitting in for him at the table. for myself and many others, charlie has been a friend, a mentor and an inspiration. we will aspire to bring you the highest standard of conversation just as charlie has done over the last 25 years. we all wish him the very best. we begin this evening with adam liptak of "the new york times" and a look at president trump's controversial immigration order. >> they basically have three

choices. they can uphold its travel ban, they can continue to block it, or they can issue some kind of split decision. but whatever happens, the path of the supreme court seems pretty likey. >> glor: we continue with the actor dev patel and his new film "lion." >> all of them were so open to us coming in, this big hoddee wood film production walks up to the tiny shores of task mania, and then there was that moment where i got to meet him. and it sounds like a cliche but it's the god's honest truth, i felt like i had known him. i had done this pill grammage as him, i had traveled the trainsk i met the women that showed what could be his life in australia, these two people, sue and john. hi done it all. so when i met him, we, the conversation was pregnant. >> glor: we conclude with charlie's conversation with the cast and director of the film "a united kingdom." >> the one thing that we talked about quite extensively was this idea of what is-- what is a leader. is a leader someone who rules

over his people, presides over them or is it someone who is in service to his people. and there was something about the real threats, say, that was humble. he had a lot of hum did shall-- humility and we wanted to make sure that on conscience and sub conscience ways we wove that through the film. >> glor: immigration and two new films, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> glor: good evening, i'm jeff glor of cbs news. we begin this evening with

president trump's controversial immigration order. the 9th circuit court of appeals questioned attorneys yesterday on its legality. the ban suspended entry from people for majority muslim country, a ruling on whether the lower court stay on executive order will stay is expectedded in days. an appeal to the supreme court is likely. joining me now from washington is adam liptak of "the new york times." adam, welcome. >> thank you. >> glor: so no decision today. do we have any sort of time table on when we might expect this? >> the court has said it is going to try to rule this week. so thursday or friday would be a good guess. >> glor: and what happens when that ruling comes down? >> well, it depends what they do. they basically have three choices. they can uphold the travel ban. they can continue to block it it. or they can issue some kind of split decision. but whatever happens, the path to the supreme court seems pretty lakely. >> glor: well, the white house has been pretty firm on this. they are saying at least that this is just a ruling on the appeal itself and not the order.

>> yeah, we're at a preliminary stage. this is a ruling on whether there should be a stay of a temporary restraining order. those are the earliest parts of the litigation. and the courts are just now looking at whether they should freeze the status quo while the courts decide. this could take a long time, whether the travel ban is lawful or not. but none the less, which way they decide how to go on that will have enormous practical implications for lots and lots of people and it will also either sustain the trump administration's general position or it will deal them a political below. >> glor: let's take this apart if we can just for a moment, adam. so the parts of this are, this is the-- the suspension of the refugee program for 120 days, this is the restriction of entry from the seven countries that have been talked about so much now, for 90 days. this is the syrian refugee program being restricted indefinitely. and there's also some other-- other parts too, the biometrics they talk about.

what parts of this are potentially most vulnerable in court. >> that's a very good summery. the distinction the government would like to draw is they anticipate they may lose some of this. and they would like to say listen, we can live with letting people back into the country who have already been here. or people who are here now and want to go visit somebody abroad and come back. but they would like the court to sustain at least that part of the ban that applies to people who are abroad and have never come here yet. and those people generally have fewer constitutional rights than people in the states. so that may be a place where the court draws some distinction. >> glor: adam, from your reporting, what was the genesis of this-- of this executive order? who did it come from? or was it-- was it a consensus? >> you know, i haven't done a lot of direct reporting on that. but others have reported that it was-- didn't go through the normal vetting processes. was thrown together, certainly

was sprung on the nation with no notice which caused the chaos at the airports a couple of weekends ago. >> glor: i wonder if you can talk about what things have been like for you from-- a newsroom perspective in washington right now for the times. >> well, i am, of course, the least of this story. but it's not easy to cover. we have been working flat out. i don't know the last time i didn't work 14 hours a day trying to make sense of, keep up with all these legal actions around the country, trying to make sense of what the administration is doing, is trying to achieve what different courts have struck down or suspended different parts of the order. so it's been a real challenge. >> glor: when the washington decision came in, though, last week, that did provide some clarity. because that applied to the whole country. >> it was clear in the sense that 2 was the broadest ruling yet. it really suspended every key part of the executive order. and you know t came on a friday

night. so people had to scramble to make sense of that. but the administration quite promptly started to comply with every part of a judicial order. they-- they didn't much like at all. and over the weekend they filed an almost immediate appeal to the united states court of appeals for the ninth circuit in san francisco, which has gone about looking at this case in a very met odd kal way, probably from the administration's poib of view, a too met odd kal way, asking for briefs, holding on tuesday evening east coast time an extraordinary telephone hearing that so many people in the u.s. listened in on. and now apparently working hard to give the supreme court a full and reasoned decision for the justices to review. >> glor: can we talk about the uniqueness of that phone call? >> i have not seen anything like it. i should say that the ninth circuit has been extraordinarily responsive and transparent. and has really tried to make it easy for the press and the public to have access to this

important judicial proceeding. so they made available by live stream a telephone hearing. telephone hearings are unusual too. but the judges in the case were scattered in san sai and phoenix and honolulu. so the lawyers were in washington state and washington d.c. and we listened in, as there was an hour-long, quite interesting, quite robust, quite lively, sometimes technical discussion of what the right decision here should be. >> glor: and the judge who, if he wasn't famous because of the ruling that he issued, certainly became famous because of twitter, not long after that, can you talk a little bit more about him and what his involvement is, if any, as this case moves forward. >> well, judge robart of the district court, of course, issued the broad injunction -- injunction shutting down president trump's travel order. he also, maybe this is a west coast phenomenon, televised the hearing before him.

he acted very fast and his decision to the frustration of some, didn't have a lot of legal reasoning. so even as he issued a very broad, temporary restraining order, he didn't really explain to us which part of the constitution president trump's order had offended. so that's one reason why it would be nice if the ninth circuit would really unpack these quite complicated issues. because there are pretty decent legal arguments on both sides. >> glor: assuming this does reach the supreme court, does the nomination of a new justice at all play any role in how this case plays out? >> in the short term, no. i would imagine that this goes up to the supreme court on an emergency application. the court typically acts on such things within a matter of days. the current supreme court nominee judge neil gorsuch, if all goes very well for him will maybe be able to join the court by the end of april and hear arguments then.

but this particular train will have left the station by then. so i don't imagine he plays a role. and that of course leaves the possibility of a 4-4 tie on the current eight member court. >> glor: and if there is a 4-4 tie, the original decision from washington stays? >> well, whatever-- whatever the ninth circuit, whatever the appeals court does gets upheld without-- without reasoning from the u.s. supreme court. so if there is a 4-4 tie, whatever the appeals court says goes. >> glor: right, okay. adam liptak from "the new york times" joining us from washington. we appreciate your time, adam. >> great to be here. >> glor: i'm jeff glor of cbs news filling in for charlie rose who is off tonight. dev patel is here, hi news film lion tells the story of saroo brierley, a story of a young indian boy who gets separated from his brother at a train station and ended up more than 1,000 miles from home. later adopted bri an australian couple. he struggles with memories of his birth family 25 years later

and uses google earth to find them. the film has earned six oscar nominations including best picture and best supporting actor for dev patel. here's a look at the trailer. >> where are you from. >> calcutta. >> which part? >> i'm adopted. i'm not really-- i'm starting to remember. >> a beautiful boy. >> be very proud of yourself. >> i have forgotten. >> are you okay? >> i had another family. a mother, a brother. i can still see their faces. >> what happened? >> i have to find my way back

home 6789 how long were you on the train? >> a couple of days. >> a couple of days. it will take a lifetime to search all the stations in india. >> do you have any idea what it is like, how every day my real brother screams my name? >> i always thought that i could keep this family together. i need you saroo, what if you do find home and they're not even there? and you just keep searching. >> i don't have a choice.

>> beautiful. >> every night i imagine that i'm walking the streets home and i know every single step of the way. i whisper in her ear. i'm here. >> glor: we are so happy to have dev patel at this table for the first time. >> yes, thank you, thank you for having me. >> glor: welcome. we were just talking about how many times you have seen the trailer. but this story never gets old, does it? >> i mean, i'm so happy to be promoting this film, you know. so i feel, i feel very privileged right now. >> glor: when did this-- when did this movie and this story first come to you? >> oh, god, i don't remember the exact specifics. but i was sent a news article by one of my agents. and i read it, and was

completely enthralled by this young man's journey. and you know, the resilience he kind of showed as a young boy on the streets of india. and then being plucked out of that and being plopped in this community in hobart and tasmania and having such a vivid mem yee-- memory, to be able to try and find his mother from space, using this app, google earth, that was kind of mind bog elling. and i straight away called up the team and said i've got to get in the room with the filmmakers. this is something that is really appealing to my soul. and ended up knocking on the writer and directors' door as they were developing the script. they hadn't even begun putting pen to page and i was there trying to pitch my stuff for the role yz this is garth davis the director, by the way, his first feature film. >> first feature film. he had done television, he did top of the lake and conquered the world of advertising in australia. >> glor: and he at first

didn't think you were right for the role. >> yeah. yeah. that's no shall it-- that's no secret. he didn't want the guy from mar i gold hotel s what i was told. and that only made me more excited. cuz i didn't want to just be known as the guy from marigold hotel. i'm 26 years old. i fell like i had so much more to offer, but i never found roles that allowed me to really spread my wings. and i was told to get in the back of the line and send in a tape, which i did, from l.a he watched it. and then there was that awkward couple of months when you don't hear anything. and then i bumped into a screen writer at whole foods, just by chance. and i was like how did it go. i'm dieing to know. and luke was like, it was beautiful work and you've got my vote. and then it came to-- i came to london to do a film with jeremy irons and that is when i got in the room with garth and we had a

proper six hour screen test. >> glor: easy to get pigeoned holed, right. >> it's easy in a way, because the kind of pond i'm fishing from is a lot smaller. so to try and show a diversity within that, a versatility is the word, actually, is difficult. and also to pick roles that resonate with big audiences has been at the back of my mind also. and you know, i feel proud of what i have done. you know, i don't think you can compare slum dog to marigold hotel or lion. >> glor: you did slum dog, you did newsroom, whatever else, i find it interesting that you are called the guy from marigold. >> yeah, i mean, i guess he was looking for something that was in terms of performance space, a lot more raw, more exposed, more simple. and i hadn't, you know, i did a film just before this, called the man who knew infinite about

jeremy irons. it is about a very famous indian mathematician and this was kind of the appetizer to this journey. but it hadn't hit the theaters yet. so there was nothing for me, apart from slum dog where i was a skinny, tiny child, that had showed me as a man. and that was part of the discussion when i got the role was look, we're going to need you to not only change your voice to sound australian but you have to put on some weight, curl your hair. i need you to look like an aussie, feel like an aussie, move like an aussie so that is what the next eight months were about. >> glor: prep was eight months. >> yeah, my prep of, you know, going to the gym, getting the accent down, that took a long time for me. and then we actually-- they shot sonny first because you know, he begins the film, you lead with this beautiful young boy, kind of-- . >> glor: extraordinary period. >> extraordinary. and he has the confidence of ten men. and he's just, you know, his eyes really, are windows to his

soul. he's a beautiful young boy. and i got to go to india for three weeks and watch him perform with the indian mother and abu who plays his older brother. and that was important for garth and me because a lot of my performance is about nostalgia, it's about remembering a past that was so long suppressed in this young man. and you know, watching them do the scenes, i got to take those mental images as my own memories and then i went to shoot my first scene which was, in fact, the climb axe of the film. >> glor: oh really? >> yeah. >> glor: okay, so did they-- and did they split it up in terms of shooting-- they shot sony first, almost entirely and then you, sony is the boy who plays you as a child. >> they shot the entire indian portion first and then we flew to australia. and he has scenes with nicole kidman and david wendtham there also. and then i began my journey there. >> glor: and the thing about

sony's performance is that he doesn't-- i mean he is yelling at times but it is almost all in the face. >> so in the face. and to think that he's never been in front of a camera before, is just astonishing. but it was interesting to watch him grow because he came, you know, you know, beginning the film, not knowing what marks were, or boom mics, it's a lot. and also the physical pressure of having to perform for nearly, you know, over eight hours a day and be present is so difficult for a young child. but i would watch him grow and understand and grasp such complex emotions by the end of it. he would walk away and get into his head space and-- and gartd was great because they don't share the same language. so he would use sign language to communicate with him. >> glor: and you stay in touch with sony. >> yeah, we were just in los angeles together yesterday. and we are doing the whole press talk together. >> glor: okay. that kid has a future.

>> yes. >> glor: i think. you described this as a role of a lifetime. i mean this is a sort of career-defining stuff, no the that you are done. it surprises me to hear that he didn't think you were right for it to begin with, because when you see it, it is sort of like who else would have worked here. >> i mean, it's one of those things where you become an obvious choice and that can scare filmmakers away because there are so very few actors of asian origin, you know, being portrayed on the screen that they're like he's the obvious guy. we need to find someone knew. and i had to go and throw my hat in the ring and show why i get some of the work. but-- . >> glor: what is saroo like? >> he's just, you know, i wasn't able to meet him when i first started filming when we were in india. and then we got to hobart and were filming minutes away from his home. i actually met his parnlts first, sue and john and they

took me around the home, showed me the taskmania t-shirt that he turned up off the plane on and all these pictures of him and his brother mantosh. and you know, all of them were so open to us coming in, this big hollywood film production walks up to the tiny shores of tasmania. and then there was that moment where i got to meet him. and it sounds like a cliche but it's the god's honest truth. i felt like i had known him. i had done this pill grammage of him, i traveled the trains, i met the woman that first showed him the picture of what could be his life in australia, these two people, sue and john. i had done it all. so when i met him, we, the conversation was pregnant it was already, we were just talking about such complex stuff and i just wanted to know a lot of my performances is a very still space. it's a man in front of a laptop trying to grapple with his past

and with each click of that mouse he's getting one step closer to reunification, his destiny. and i wanted to know how that felt, how plausible it was in his head. did he actually think that he could find her. he spoke about this thing called astral travel which i never heard of before. and i was like how did you refer, you looking at these blurry pixels. google had just come out then. and it was just-- . >> glor: google earth. >> google earths, sorry, not google. and you know, the technology was still, you know, the refresh, the time it took to refresh the pictures was, it took forever. and he goes my mother, the first thing i did when i got to australia, she put a big map of the world on the wall. and she pointed to india and went that is where you are from. and every night when she closed the light he would go to sleep and his heart would start to race and he would feel like he was coming over his body, hovering over india and all of a

sudden he would materialize there with his mother and his brother and be with them. and he would whisper in her ear that i'm here, i'mith you, and everything is going to be okay. and he would wake up almost as if he has run a marathon in sweat. and he goes, he did that from a child to a grown adult. and then this app came out which mirrored what he was doing in his brain every night. he would hover above the map, go over india, and then zoom in. and that blew my mind. and that's how he could retain those memories so vividly. he was there. >> glor: i feel like there's three main actors in this movie. it is you, as sony and st google earth, to a certain extent it played such a big, big role. >> geography. >> glor: in him finding his moment. saroo struggles with depression in the film. i wonder from your conversations with him, does he still-- i mean what i life. does he still deal with those

issues today? >> he does. it's hard without the-- i guess the spoiler alert, but you know, the moment he reunited with his mother, he-- this is from his own mouth, he said the day i learned my hero had died. and that was his older brother in india. and he still is coming to terms with that cuz they were on the train tracks together. and he doesn't, there are just so many complexities to that, and the guilt. so as a family, they're growing. but the thing is they're growing together which is beautiful. and you know, it's a delicate situation. but he did battle with guilt for a very, very long time, the idea that he is living this wonderful, privileged life and back in india, you know, there are his mother and his brother, they could have been, you know, trolling the tracks every day looking for him.

>> glor: has his relationship with mantosh, his brother, his brother in australia, we should mention, they, his adopted parents also adopted mantosh after him. that is a conflicted relationship in the film very much so. i-- has that relationship changed at all since he found. >> you know, it's interesting. because when -- we had this big barbecue where we had the fake family, the on screen family and the real familiment and i got to say, it was a really beautiful moment. and you see there is a real connect with the two brothers. you know, they really do love each other. and sue is this force, the mother, this kind of umbrella over the two that will fiercely protect these boys through thicket and thin, you can see it. and it's exposing to have a story like this out there. the fact is, in saroo is the first person to say this, he is the lucky one. you know, there are 11 million clirn in the streets of india.

not only did he get a second chance at life, but he was able to bridge that gap and find his other mother. sew, in fact, has these two beacons of love. whereas mantosh was in this horrible, horrible orphanage for a lot longer. and he kind of witnessed a harsher brutality. so you know, he comes, he came into the family with more demons to battle. and i think, you know, i wouldn't want to talk too much about it, that's very personal to him and the family. but you know, they are growing together like i say. >> glor: and this is one of-- one of the more poignant scenes in the movie is when you and nicole kidman, when she is discussing, you say to her, i'm sorry you couldn't have kids. and she said i could. i made the choice not to and to help to bring in some one or two kids who had dealt with these

difficult situations. and there's a nod to the kids who don't have families, at the end of the family too. i think that's a point that should be remembered by everyone. >> absolutely. >> glor: which, is maybe something people don't think about all the time. >> the thing is, we person fie single journey of those 11 million children on those streets. >> if anyone has seen it, one thing i can say with 100 percent confidence, is it is harrowing, it is completely moving. and to think that there are so many more children that, you know, are living such an existence t is really sad. you know, the film is aligned with three charities, magic bus, india, child line india and ro-wick children india. and they try to raise some money. and it's a really horrible situation. >> glor: garth had you do some weird exercises to get ready for this movie. what were those and why, why did he do that?

>> so many reasons. i think, so the beginning of the film when are you following a child is is a very external reactive performance to an environment. the second part is all about an internal struggle where a character is afraid of realizing something and talking about it. so when you are following a character who can't talk about his feelings, that's a very difficult space. and you've got to try and project that to an audience is hard. so a lot of it is isolation. he had me traveling the trains, writing diaries, visiting orphanages. me and rooney actually did something which was quite funny as when we first met, called the monkey exercise. where he had us, he took away the dialogue from a scene. and it was a kind of moment where i was trying to bring it back around to me, but i couldn't say anything. i was walking in the room, and he's like cut, cut, i needs to you act like a monkey, so i'm

actually on all fours coming up to rooney, and she was the same. and what it brought out was a tact tillity, cuz you can't talk. so to move the hair off her face, turn her around, that built a chemistry that is really hard to manufacture in such a short amount of time. but it-- we felt like we had been together for a long time in the relationship. because you are all of a sudden rubbing noses and doing things on camera that you would otherwise be afraid to do. >> he also had us lie on the floor on the canvas clothed and draw around each other and paint what we saw and all sorts of crazy-- quite spiritually inclined man. >> glor: sounds like it. >> when we were in india, me, sony and-- he had us play hide and seek in the forest, that the character walks through at the end. and he recorded the sound of those leaves. and when i was in hobart googling, looking at this blank

screen trying to muster these big emotions, he would play the sound of sony laughing back to me. and all of a sudden it transported me back to a really beautiful space. so he, these techniques that make him really a great actors' director. >> glor: i got to meet this guy. >> yeah, he's incredible. >> glor: but some of these exercises, it it sounds like the sort of skill and intuition of an experienced director. i know he had done commercials and other things, but again, this is his first film. >> yeah, i think for garth, speaking on his behalf, it's purely by choice. he was waiting for-- he waits for stories that really tug at his soul. and you know, top of the lake did that. and this film when it came about, he was with the "60 minutes" crew when saroo was reunited with his-- brought his australian mother to india, to meet his indian mother. he was the man filming that and orchestrating that moment. and he just felt like a natural choice to continue the journey. and then you see his technical

prowess as a filmmaker to capture these two massive canvass, india and australia which are so different in texture and color and smell and sound. he's really accomplished film making. >> glor: up next is hotel mum buy. >> yes. >> glor: which is dun shooting, in post production. this is about the terror attack that took place in mumbai a number of years ago. >> 2008, yeah. >> glor: this is different material to be sure. what brought you to that and i wonder how much you can talk about that right now? >> yeah, i mean, we did a scene at the end of slum dog millionare, danny added this in as an ode to the celebration which is is bollywood and india which is this massive dance on one of the most chaotic, busiest train stations, thousands of commuters go through this train

station. it. victoria terminal. and it was a moment of absolute euphoria. and these two characters are rejoin-- rejoicing in love. and finished that, done the whole press tour for slum dog. and coming back into london i open pie door and i see my parents standing in front of the screen. the tv with tears in their eyes. and these terrorists had walked in, these young men, opened their satchels and taken out a k-st and opened fire. so all these unsuspecting travelers, families, kids. >> and it was a horrible thing and when i heard that they were making a film, i wanted to be a part of telling their story and make sure it was told with sensitivity and done right. and it just so happened that the director really, i was his first choice for this role. but it was-- it wasn't quite-- i

wanted to be different. i wanted to go deeper with it. so we sat down and spoke about how we could shape this young man. we made him a skih waiter which is a man with a tur ban. he comes from a slum and he goes into this hotelment and hotels are fascinating because they are like airports, you know, a whole plethora of society comes in and collides in this one space. and you've got a poor man from the slums, and you've got a rich russian billionaire, and he's wearing this, you know, uniform and he can pour this man blue label vodka that which he could never afford to do and when the terrorists come in, and you see what happens to the structure, the society, and what happens to the humans in this confined space. and it really, the heroes of this were the staff, you know. there is a saying inside the hotel, they say, and you can see

it on many documentaries, i'm not giving anything away, guest is god. and they literally were running in front of ak-47 fire, with baking sheets taped to their chest to save these members. it is a really beautiful story it is close to my heart. i'm also exec producing it which is the first one, i. >> glor: congratulations. >> i have been able to develop that. fingers crossed. >> glor: when does it come out. >> i'm not sure, they're in the editing suite now, so we will see how it shakes up. >> glor: dev patel, thank you for being here, pleasure to meet you. >> thank you for having me. >> glor: . a united kingdom is the new fill frm director amma asante, the film depicts the true story of the certificate etsy khama king of bats wanna and they are in a conflict not only with their families but also the british and south african government in the 1940s and 50s he.

hollywood reporter calls it a rousing love story and triumphant call to gestures, here is a look at the trailer. >> what is this song supposed to be? >> i don't know but they are tell-- bell-- telling. >> i have never trusted an englishman to play it. >> do you like to dance? >> father will hate him on-site. >> you're cleverer than him and he's black. >> i never see you again. >> you must see moo again. >> are you insane, white, british, and what about your people? >> my grandfather was a king. i am his heir. i have a responsibility to return home to my family. >> i will never achieve anything worthwhile if i leave my heart here. >> if you choose to marry the leader of an african nation you will be responsible for the down fall of the british empire in africa. >> you choose a life of exalt

and shame. >> i know what you are asking, what it means. and yes, i will mary you. -- marry you. >> over two decades of preparing you to be our king. >> my home, our home. >> what do you think will. >> as if it were your place to be our queen. >> mall nutrition, mall aria. >> we need him more than you. let him go. >> we've misjudged this, haven't we? >> i am told you no longer wish for me to honor my duty as your king because of the color of the wife i have chosen. >> this could make your country ungovernable. >> we have concluded you should be exiled for life. >> i can't do this alone any more. >> i am your way back, i am your way back. >> the whole world is much wag.

>> he's stronger than either of us suspect. >> she is a woman who has loved. >> i am ready to serve you because i love my people! i love this land! but i love my wife. am. >> rose: joining me is director amma asante and the filma two stores david oyelowo and rosamund pike. i'm pleased to have them here at this table. someone said to me that he had to convince you to direct this film? >> he didn't have to try too it hard. but it true that david and gi back a long way. david met me when i was four years old, 20 years ago. and-- . >> rose: that makes you. >> 24. and so we sort of worked together back then, watched each other's careers develop and he came to me a couple of years ago

and with a book that he-- about a book that he had read called chal i bab by susan williams, an incredible book, a book that had obsessed him with a photo essay of the couple which was incredible, and a script that existed at the time. and it did, it didn't take much to convince me because this is a great, great, powerful story and one i knew nothing about until david's approach. >> rose: did you know anything about it, rosamund. >> no, i didn't know anything about this couple. and again, when i-- when i read about them and saw these pictures of them, it was a kind of heartfelt leap to say yes. because the photos that david sent me and amma had the most extraordinary effect on me. they, i think when you look at this couple, you could see the love, but you could also see some journey was yet to be told that was behind them being together. and it moved me to tears. and i had to pay attention to that feeling. >> rose: what was it for you,

david? >> i was just shocked at the fact that i didn't know this story. i was so compelled by their story. i was so inspired by their love for each other, and the effect that that love went on to have not just on them but those around them and the country in particular, botswana was a country that lived in a positive way, the leg see-- legacy of the love between these two people. >> rose: botswana is a country that lives in a positive way connected to the love of these two people. >> uh-huh. >> the love and the legacy of these two people. mean they see themselves now as a post racial nation. they don't recognize race. and that largely is borne out of the leadership of the two of them. because certificate etsy went on after having to abdicate the throne as king because of pressure from the u.k. to become botswana's first elected

president. >> rose: and tell me about him. >> an extraordinary man. what i loved about him when i read about him was the fact that, you know, unlike a lot of the portrayals we see of african leaders, this is a man who had huge capacity for love, and huge capacity for love for his people. so often what you see of african leaders as depicted in film or in the media is them being corrupt, them caring nothing about their people, let alone having capacity to love. and you know, having lived in africa in nigeria, specifically, myself for self is enyears of my life, i know that there are people like this all across african history, that we don't get to see. and so i was very keen for that to be seen in a film like this. >> rose: a capacity for love and a capacity for leadership. >> exactly, yes. leadership in the best sense, sack ri figure love, the ability to do that sacrificially. >> rose: for something larger

than yourself. >> yes. >> rose: and her. >> rudd was a very ordinary girl when certificate etsy met her and they fell in-- certificate et see met-- seretse met her and they fell in love. but she had been one of those women liberated during her experiences in the second world war. she would have stepped into jobs that would have been previously closed to women. she drove a ambulance in a crash field in the south of england. and i think she was the vanguard of those group of women who had survivorred the war who felt that the future was going to hold new and brighter and bolder opportunities for woim. i don't think she drement it would have been in this direction. but during the course of the film we see quite eye-- you know, a shell terred young woman have to take up on the public stage. >> rose: was she resistant because she was worried about him and his destiny.

>> well, there is a very interesting scene where seretse after a sort of wonderful walk through london by night tells her that he is, in effect, a royal person and will be in line to rule his tribe and pretty much his country in a few years. and she, of course, assumes that's him saying this can't go any further. which would be her understanding as a commoner in england, if a prince came to you and said i am a prince. would you take-- you would gracefully bow out. and in this case, seretse said no, i feel that we need to see this through, there is more to this story. >> rose: take a look at this, this is where seretse is proposing to ruth, here it is. >> am i late? >> no, no, not at all. >> something the matter.

>> i have been thinking about my responsibilities back home in botsz wanna. ---- botswana. i need to do this. an i know that i will never ever choose anything worthwhile if i leave my heart here. i'm not asking for-- an answer this very second. all i ask of you is that you go away and think about it. because there is a lot to think about. and. >> i don't need to think about

it. i know i love you. and i know what you are asking. what it means. and yes, yes, yes, seretse, i will marry you. >> rose: tell me about fimming that scene. >> you know, i remember us going into the rehearsal for that scene and the moment when seretse or david gets down on one knee and takes off his hat. and i remember during the rehearsal rosamund immediately tearing up, and even myself immediately tearing up because there is something wonderfully just traditional and old-fashioned and gentlemanly about the way that david played that moment and you know the

story for me is very much not one about how they fall in love, but what happens once they fall in love. and so the courtship is very small part of the film. it's about what happens after they decide to get married. but the moment of seretse proposing to ruth had to be romantic. and we wanted them surrounded by london. i had taken a stroll with my husband on my wedding day across a bridge in paris, and had all of paris surrounding me. and there was something beautifulfully romantic about it and i thought how romantic would it be to have seretse propose to ruth in front of big ben and surrounded by all of these elements that are quintessentially british right before he whisks her off to his country which is quintessentially-- botswana. >> rose: and you wanted him to be on his knee while he is proposing. >> absolutely. the one thing that we talked about quite extensively is this idea of what is a leader.

you know, is a leader someone who rules over his people, presides over them or is he someone who is in service to his people. and there was something about seretse, the real seretse that was humblek, he had a lot of humility. 57bd we wanted to make sure that we conscience and sub conscience ways wove that through the film. so the idea of this king getting on his knees to this woman that he loves, because he's asking her for a lot. he's asking her for-- it wasn't as if she was going to go to africa and live this life that was completely privileged, in a way. it was going to be a life of challenge. not that they knew what they were going to come up against. but in the sense that this was a south london woman who was, you know, had lived within the four walls of her home comfort comforts, her creature comforts. and to go to africa at that time was to challenge some of that. and to live a beautiful life, but a very different life. and he knew that he was asking

her to give up what she knew. and, and she does so. and she does so very quickly. i just lover the moment when she says, you know, i don't have to think about it it. i don't have to, because you know, your soul knows. >> rose: does he leave diaries and notes and letters, or did she? >> well, what i read was a lot of transscripts of speeches that he had made. >> rose: what does that tell you? >> it told me how passionate he was about this lady. i mean there's a scene we have where he addresses his people. and even though we boil it down to the one speech, you know, there are transscripts over four different-- where basically their particle am, as it were, where he had to appeal. and he appealed in ferocious-- ferocious terms. some of the back and forth between him and his uncle got really quite acrimoniousment but through all of it, it was rooted

in a conviction that he simply couldn't see his life without this woman in it. and yet he was completely dedicated to serving his people. >> rose: i mean it's almost like his people and people who had either-- had appointed themselves with a stake in this love affair are characters in this film. >> absolutely. and that's a very tough thing. when are you a filmmaker, you are looking for subject matter that is going to be compelling, full of drama, full of conflict. can you imagine what it feels like to be in love. and it's not just your parents who are opposing your marriage but it's countries. i mean literally nations are. >> continents. >> yeah, continents clashing to get you guys to be apart. >> rose: what did the ekes aisle do for the affair, the love affair. >> well, it was a very-- it was certainly a pressure on a very, very stable and very strong marriage. but none the less, you know, i

think to have withstood it is more than most marriages would have been capable of. i mean soon into their life in africa, and the british government said that they wanted the couple to return to england. and seretse wisely surprise miced what they really wanted was ruth in england and him to stay in botswanaland. so he said to ruth i think we'll give them the opposite. i am going to go to london and you will stay here. what he didn't bargain for was the fact that once he got to london, he was actually exiled for a period of five years. so ruth, you know, at that time, which is one of the things that drew me to the film, you see the experience of a white woman trying to belong in an african world. craving inclusion and meeting suspicion and rejection. but during that time where she was forced to live alone in his home country, she really won the respect of the local community because she didn't give up. because she persevered, because she gave birth to their first born child, a daughter in a

local hospital. she didn't sway to the pressures to go and have the baby in south africa or even somewhere, you know, with potentially better medical care. so she really earned the respect of the people. and i think that saw her through, you know, the rest of their marriage, seretse's leadership and her life in botswana after his death. because he died young and ruth continued to live there. >> rose: how old was he. >> it was in 1980, so she had another-- gosh, she didn't die until 2008. so she had quite a bit more of life to live without him. >> rose: 23008, that is 28 years. >> yeah. >> rose: here is a scene when you go back to meet his family. here it is. >> uncle, in is ruth. >> i'm very pleased to meet you, sir. >> i always pictured my nephew,-- refreshments will be provided in the house.

>> over two decades of preparing you to be our king, and this is how you -- a white woman by your side? >> uncle, you are trying to tear us apart. >> i am seretse's sister. >> he has told me so much. >> don't. >> why would you do this to us? >> be something that makes no sense. look at them. they are fighting because of you. i mean you no harm. >> do you understand what mother, mother of our nation means? >> rose: what did they clang? was this the end of britain?

>> well, it was the beginning-- it was the beginning of the end of the colonialist regime in africa. and you know, botswana was one of the countries in that wave who attained independence. i'm from nigeria myself, it happened for nigeria in 1960. and in fact, botswana celebrated its independence, the anniversary of its 50th year of independence last year. so the film has been a big part of this celebration there. but what you see in the film is an empire trying to hold on to its imperialistic values in the film. and you know, some one like seretse, having the smarts not only to outsmart great britan at this time but become one of the few countries in africa who retained a lot of their own

resources. >> rose: how did he outsmart them? >> well, you know, in the fact that had they had it their way, they would be excited for the rest of their lives. but and he would have abdicated the throne. >> rose: but he came back as head of the first democratic. >> he came back and knew his people would elect him president. >> along with holding on to the mineral rights for their country, which meant that they became a very rich country, because it meant when diamonds were then discovered, those diamonds belonged to the people and not to the british. >> you see them move from being swayed as kind of moveed around the board by like chess pieces to exposing the lies that the british government were undoubtedly telling at the time i mean soon after seretse made it clear he was going to rule with this white woman by his side, the british government ordered an investigation into his suit ability as a leader. and the investigation came back clearly stating that he was a

most suitable leader. but they buried that report because it didn't suit their ends. so you know, in the end, ruth and seretse exposed a lot of lying and you know, duplicity on the part of the british government. >> rose: you produced this. >> yes. >> out of necessity, actually. you know, these are tough movies to get made. a film that has africa as part of its narrative, a film that has, you know, a black male protagonist. and you know, and a historical film as well. so you know, what happened is after i had been introduced to the story about seven years ago, anyone i had loved working with and who would humor me by listening to my obsession about this story and who, you know was

intoxicated by it, they came on board and these two ladies here were some of the people who joined me for the ride. >> rose: lucky you. >> very lucky me, yeah. such talented people i was surrounded by. >> rose: thank you, thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you. the film is obviously called a united kingdom. it opens in new york and l.a. on friday, february 10th. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> rose: see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> on pom's pbs newshour making sense of the effect of the trump presidency on the trump brand.

tonight on "quest" -- all living beings share a common ancestry. today, this is a basic idea. but when charles darwin published it, he transformed the biological sciences forever. in celebration of darwin's 200th birthday, "quest" follows california academy of sciences beetle expert david kavanaugh. can darwin's principles on evolution, coupled with modern dna analysis, help him prove the existence of a new california species?