>> welcome to the program. the program is "charlie rose: the week." charlie is away. i'm jon hockenberry. just ahead, conservatives and democrats both gather to chart the future. america 2017. what would christopher hitchins have thought? and the up-and-coming sound of lake street dive. ♪ a forgone conclusion to lose it ♪ it broke my heart ♪ i only got one part but i wanted it all, i wanted it all ♪ >> we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the

following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: so you began how? >> fill in that gap. >> rose: is it luck at all or is it something else? >> if i succeed, we all succeed. >> r what's the object lesson here? >> we shouldn't repay it with a crime. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. >> this was its the week the trump administration rolled back federal protections for transgender students. russia's ambassador to the united nations died suddenly in new york. and nasa announced they'd found seven new planets orbiting a star just outside the solar system. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. >> russia's ambassador to the u.n. died at a new york hospital. >> they should install some webcam ras in your polling stations, you know. this computer vote, we have some suspicions about that. >> the malaysian police say

toxicology report says the north korean leader's half-brother was assassinated with a lethal nerve agent. >> the president takes a hard line against anti-semitism. >> threats targeting our jewish community are a very sad reminder of the work that still must be done to root out hate and prejudice. >> lawmakers face off with angry voters. >> you work for us! >> 2020, you're gone! >> the trump administration rolling back federal protections for transgender students in public schools. >> a fiery last stand over the dakota acpespipeline. >> a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. >> seven newly discovered planets. >> the new solar system 39 light-years away. >> tom braid's super bowl jersey still m.i.a., so the pats quarterback posted a suspects board, including julian edelman and lady gaga. >> i'm going to fight until i die ♪ you've got to fight for your

right ♪ >> thousands of people held "not my president" rally on president's day ♪ i'm leaving on a jet plane. >> bao bao the panda is gearing up to leave the u.s. for china. >> bao bao turns four in august, so bao bao will fly bye-bye on a 16-hour flight from dulles international to china. ♪ laestles on a jet plane >> we begin this broadcast with some real political theater, comedy and tragedy. a stormy first month for president trump is capped off by two big gatherings going on right now, one celebratory-- cpac, the conservative political action conference is meeting triumphantly outside washington. and in atlanta, by the way-- and it's just a coincidence-- home for the center centers will fore control and prevention-- the democratic national committee has gathered as though at an autopsy to figure out what went wrong in 2016 and to see if

there's enough life in the party to elect new leadership. nick compensorry fromlet "new york times" is here. welcome. >> how are you. >> you can imagine more contrast ?aiz year ago the d.n.c. meeting was, you know, almost triumphant. and trump was-- was banned from the cpac meeting. >> that's right. >> now he's the gecht of honor. >> that's right. and steve bannon had to set up an ieflt cpac on the sidelines because he was also not allowed there. it's fascinating how the poles of the american politics have reversed, the sense the democrats had that they were the majority party and would soon become the dominant party, now totally in the dust. and republicans who feared that donald trump would leave them down the path to obsolescence, is now the president, you know, of the whole country. >> but how can you go from, "is he a conservative?" which is what the discussion air force year ago to, "he is our leader." isn't there some resolution that

has to be done? isn't there some jostling that has to take place within cpac? >> power is powerful and influential. i think conservatism has always had a high church and a low church, if you will. the high church was small government and liberty and think attentions. and the low church was nationalism. it was always there. what trump has done is elevate that strain-- and bannon as well-- have elevated that to the dispop you saw that today at cpac. >> today's press opportunity for the white house press corps, your organization, cnn, and other major organizations were kept out. what's that all about? >> well, it seems like it's one part retribution for recent news the president does not like. but i think the white house is also picking a fight with an unpopular group, which is the media, us journalists. you can't really lose a battle against the media at large. people are always going to more or less think you have a point on it. but after watching steve bannon attacking the media at cpac, i think this was the next round in

the fight. he wanted to have a fight after that statement with the media to at a of say to trump voters and followers, "look, we're taking the fight back to them." >> let's move to atlanta and the democratic national committee which, of course, was the subject of the russian hacks and now is going to rebuild the democratic party? there's got to be another leadership class emerge here, or want d.n.c. has no future. >> look, the problem is democrats have been on the losing end on their farm team for years now, not just this past election. they've been losing races for governor, for state legislature, and the cupboard is pretty bare. >> this is one of those moments. you know what i'm talking about-- everyone has an opinion. i've heard people this week say they've set rules, "are we going to talk about trump or not?" jon stewart retired last year,

but he's back on "the colbert show" virtually every night which is blowing away jimmy fallon's "tonight show" ratings. who do we really need back to guide us in this what do you call it time? we lost christopher hitchins in 2011 to cancer, but when he was alive no president, no monarch politician-- not even god-- was safe from his perfect cutting commentary, his historical wisdommizing. hitchins was unpredictable are a rapier wit, a voice equal parts gravel and whiskey. he was a 60s socialist and an ardent surnt of the invasion of iraq. no one wore the badge of contrarian more proudly than christopher hitchins as he once explained to charlie rose. >> not everyone wants to always be out of step, or against the stream. but if that's-- if you do feel that the consensus doesn't speak for you, if there's something about you that makes you feel

that it would be worth being unpopular or marginal for the chance to lead your own life and have a life instead of a career or job, then i can promise you it is worthwhile, yeah. >> so, what would hitch say? that's right what, would hitch say about america in this age of donald trump? with me are some of hitch's many friends and colleagues from sanford, california, is his widow, carol blue hitchins. historian douglas brinkley is in austin, texas. and here in the studio are the novelists martin amose and journalist and author lesli coburn. welcome to all of you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> carol, let me begin with you. you, memorably told me, right up until his last moments, he was engaged in the news. so we can absolutely predict that he would have had something to say about what's going on right now. >> yeah, i think he probably would have something to say every time he wrote a column or every time he came on tv.

and, sadly, we have to try to infer what he might have said and really only he could say it. but there you go. >> intellectual forensics -- that's what we'll call it. doug brinkley, he always hadab historical reference that nobody else had that could create a coined of parallel. what do you think he would find as the most important or significant historical reference that would describe this time of donald trump? >> well, he probably would have turned back to george orwell, who he loved so much, and the very fact of the matter is, orwell's books are back in circulation. and the one consistency of this contrarian, christopher hitchins, our friend, was his disdain of authoritarianism in any guise. and he would go after-- whether it's henry kissinger, the catholic church-- he did not care if he smelled authoritarianism. so i think the moves of donald trump to suppress the-- suppress

journalists would drive hitchins mad. >> although, it's hard for me ton where he would have come down on this election. lesli, what do you think? >> i think christopher would have been appalled by trump, but he also would have said, "who gave us trump? hillary clinton." i mean, christopher was not, as you know, a big supporter of hillary clinton. >> no. >> and feel that he would have said it's-- it's because of the way they ran that campaign that we ended up with donald trump. i think he would have laid a lot of responsibility at her feet. >> what do you think he would say about the people who support donald trump versus the people who have contempt for him? >> i think he would be very active in the resistance. i think he would sense that this was, you know, a moment that has chosen him. i don't-- i think he would have more or less ignored trump himself. and he-- he that you want bill

clinton was a "titanic" vulgainer. he would have jumped out of his shoes to see trump in his pomp. i think he would have gone for steve bannon. he would have honed in on steve bannon. >> the idea that bannon is, you know, the intellectual heavyweight and ideologue of this kind of supranationalist wing of the republican party is laughable. >> what would he think of bannon as, doug brinkley, a kind of svengali? >> well, he would have seen what martin just pointed out, i mean, how many-- like swiss cheese just filled with holes. hitchins was deeply well read and a brilliant interpreter of modern life. i do think he would have aimed for bannon as want intellectual poser, and also, leslie nailed it, too-- there's no way hitchins would have voted for hillary clinton. i don't think he could have vote

forward donald trump. so i don't know whether he would have gone libertarian or put in somebody else's name. >> but he would have had the commentary, the astute commentary on the state of the american system right now, leslie. >> well, i think a couple of things. one, remember, christopher said the totalitarianism is my enemy. not the person who tells you how to live or makes you pay taxes. it's the person who wants to control how you think. so he would be very concerned of what's happening in those spicer press conferences and it's coming out of bannon and miller and trump himself, this sort of controlling the thought process. it goes back way before orwell to tom paine, who made it very clear, if you can't think, then liberty, you know, is a shadow that quits the horizon. so i think that looking at the numbers, he would have, for example, on the whole russia

issue, i think he would have loved the putin bashing, loved it. but i think he would not have bought the notion that the russians threw the election in any way. i think he would have said that was the responsibility of the-- of the hillary campaign. >> i don't think christopher would have wasted much time blaming hillary clinton. i know he-- he very much dislikes her, and what she stands for. but, i mean, that's gone. that's spilled milk. >> it's passed. >> and he would say this is a real fight no, i think he would zero in on the-- these threats to the press. you know, everyone knows democracy can't work without a free press. and the of these dark, menacing remarks that bannon and trump have been making about the opposition party. and they say, "we're going to do something about it." now, that's-- that's what would

set off all the alarmbles. >> with republicans controlling both the white house and congress, one of the checks on one-party rule lies with democratic states attorneys. new york state attorney general eric schneiderman is one of them. his office is fighting the administration's immigration ban. he's already tangled with president trump in the now-settled trump university lawsuit and continuing investigation of the trump foundation. he was interviewed this week by jeffrey tubein. >> the damage to the country caused by such an extreme termination of immigration from any countries in the world, really, but certainly from these seven, we documented the real harm it would cause to new york and new yorkers. we are a state that lives off international commerce. and our health care sector would suffer. there were doctors who were not

able to get home from family vacations, medical technicians, our academic institutions, state institutions would suffer. our tech sect organize our finance sectors-- really we put forward evidence of the damage that would be done not just to the individual detainees but to lots of others, millions of other new yorkers and people all over the country. so i'm proud of the fact that the attorneys general around the country responded quickly, within 36 hours of this order dropping. we issued a very strong statement because we were getting nothing but obfuscation and confusion from washington. in fact, one of the complaints by the folks on the ground working for the federal agencies was they had no guidelines. there were inconsistent application of this elsewhere. we put out a statement that we were confidentlet court could strike this down, it was unconstitutional and un-american and we were, two minimize the pain and we followed through. >> so we'll see how that evolves. do you see yourself as sort of the voice of the opposition to trump? i mean, you have democrats in

congress, they don't have subpoena power. you have subpoena power. do you see yourself as one of the major checks on the new administration? >> well, i do see state governments and state attorneys general in particular as a major check because it's become clear that, at least up until now, the republican majorities in congress are reluctant to pose much of a check on this administration. that brings us back to the wisdom of the founders of providing for this federalist system where a lot of power is retained at the state level. and i do see myself and another group of democratic a.g.s as playing a leading role in this in really several distinct ways. first of all, we're in a position to fill in, if the federal government retreats from what we believe its duties to enforce the law. if they don't want to enforce the civil rights law, and aren't enforcing consumer protection laws as much or labor laws or environmental laws, states can fill in that gap. second, if they take an action, as with this ban on immigration,

that actually causes harm to the people we represent, we can challenge them in court. and this comes up in many different contexts. ironically, we're now defending the clean power plant, but the rules issued by the obama administration e.p.a. on greenhouse gas came after my office filed a notion of intent to sue them because they were too slow at following up on a supreme court decision that essentially directed them to do so. so our ability to file lawsuits to protect peernl the people we represent from over-reach or bad public policy coming out of washington, is unusual. and i think that we're gog have a new test of the strength of our federalist fabric. the opportunities are there. we're not looking for fights that don't exist, but the reason the immigration ban was-- became the first flashpoint was it took effect immediately.

>> the ambassador of the united arab emirates to russia is an author, "letters to a young muslum." he talked to jon meacham about the book and how modern muslims can stay true to their religion while navigating the modern world. >> my editor said wonderful but you might think about addressing people's concerns. and she gave me the idea of "letters. everything began to simplify itself. when i re-read the book i'm pleased with how the language has broken down into very basic elements here. >> is this the way you talk to him? >> it is actually the way i talk to him. and i talk to my younger son as well in the same manner. of course, the subject matter will be slightly different. but yeah i think it's important to be able to explain things in

a fairly simple manner. and i think it was also something that i was taught at university-- try to express things as simply as possible. the ideas can be complex, but the presentation should be easy. >> right, right. now, i admire you for having a 16-year-old and 14-year-old who could listen to this. i have a 14-year-old who i don't think would read a letter from me. tell me what was the most important message you wanted to get across? this was a complicated time in the muslim world, a complicated time in the western world. there are still some who want to say that it's enduring clash of civilization. there are others who would like to see coexistence and reform be possible. what's the-- what was the-- what's the impetus? what is your message to them? >> well, my message is actually something about our personal responsibility within the faith. so people can talk about a clash of civilization, between civilizations. i actually think there's a clash

within our own civilization. >> what is your greatest fear for, say, your 16-year-old growing up in an islamic world that has been given to extremism? do you worry that he would be surrounded by people who have been radicalized? do you worry about his own susceptibility, potentially? >> in the case of my older son, no, i'm not particularly worried about him. there was a moment that i did worry that he was, you know, interested in the wrong ideas. and, you know, initially you can think of it as curiosity, but when he began to defend those ideas i thought maybe-- >> which ideas. >> for example, the time when he got a copy of a biography of osama bin laden, and he began to think well, perhaps he had a point. but this is extremely important issue. and it takes me back to september 11. and, you know, the events on september 11, tragic and evil and a crime. and it made me think very clearly that we mustn't, as

arabs and muslims-- even if we think that we have been the victims of a crime, we shouldn't repay it with a crime. because that just makes a nonsense of our ethical system. so i felt that that was extremely important. of course my son, you know, after a few weeks dropped that-- dropped that idea. and moved on. but he's representative of a certain category of young man and woman who may look at certain actors within our world, within the arab world, in the muslim world, and say, "these are really quite heroic fellows," you know. "they've made a big sacrifice." i want tow try to take that negative energy and have it be more constructive and productive. ♪ your friends come over and meantime expln you were so strange ♪ you didn't have the decency to change the sheets ♪ when you were mine

you were so fine ♪ so fine ♪ maybe that's the reason that it hurt me so ♪ i know i know ♪ that you're going with another i don't care ♪ don't care because i love you baby that's no lie. >> the soul pop band lake street dive is having a great year. they released "side pony" and has just started a national tour that features several festival dates including new orleans jazzfest, and celebrate brooklyn. anthony mason say the s.a.t. down with lake street dive earlier this week. >> i feel like i'm one piece of the puzzle and i know my three bandmates have a lot of confidence in what i do, and i have a lot of confidence in what the three of them do, artistically, the way they write songs, the way they play, everyone's individual strengths. so i think that's really, really

helpful because, like, you know, anyone is like one individual's insecurities doesn't really-- like, it doesn't overtake you. you're, like, well-- like, we're in this together, like, fifail, we all fail. if i succeed, we all succeed. like, there's no-- no one's going anywhere. like, we will make this work. >> there's also something beautiful about being so, like, bad for so long. you know. ( laughter ) there's sort of, like, you know, it doesn't matter what we do anymore kind of because what we used to do was, you know-- like-- everything is a step in the right direction now from-- >> from where you were. but the stakes change, don't they? i mean, all of a sudden, you have a label. you have bigger audiences, and everything's on the line, and there's the whole idea of growth, both artistically and commercially. so there are a whole new set of pressures that come once that

happens. >> it's kind of like we were asked to do this, so, obviously, something about what we have been doing is deserving of that. and so we trust ourselves. and we kind of have to-- you know, that took quite a while to get comfortable with that trust, but that's how you, i think, have to start doing it. it's kind of a jump and a trust fall with your best friends. and then see what happens ♪ we got turned around but we can spin it ♪ call off your dogs >> i mean, something about the entertainment industry is, like, there's no recipe for guaranteed success. you just kind very far to keep, like, making music that you believe in and putting stuff out there and, like, after a while, if you're doing a good job, then hopefully one thing will hit, like, we continue to do that same thing, try to make music with integrity and creativity and then, you know, sometimes people hear about it.

sometimes they don't. and, you know, you just keep doing it. >> now here's a look at your weekend. little big town townrelease aid new album "the breaker." ♪ but i just miss you and i wish you were a better man >> the carnival season opens in reege de janeiro. ♪ ♪ and the crew of endemmian parades through new orleans on saturday. will and here's a look at the week ahead: sunday is the night the 89th annual academy awards are broadcast on abc. monday is the day congress returns after the president's day recess. tuesday is the day president trump addresses a joint session of congress. wednesday is the day of the

national audubon society's winter gala in new york. thursday is the opening of the new elvis presley museum and entertainment complex in memphis, tennessee. friday is the opening day of major league soccer's regular season. saturday is the start of the 2017 iditarod dogsled race in anchorage, alaska. that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. from all of us here, thank you for watching. i'm jon hockenberry. we'll see you again next time. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> hockenberry: welcome to the program. i'm john hockenberry sitting in for charlie rose. we begin tonight with a question -- what would christopher hitchens do and say in this unprecedented political climate? i talked to a group who knew him well, his widow carol blue hitchens, martin amis, douglas brinkley and leslie cockburn. >> yeah, i think he probably would have something to say every time he wrote a column or came on tv and, sadly, we have to try to infer what he might have said and really only he could say it. but there you go. >> hockenberry: we look ahead to the academy awards airing sunday. a.o. scott of the "new york times" talked to film critics david edelstein, josh horowitz and aisha harris. >> whether this is a watershed moment, is this a begin og offa new norma i