captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, the trump administration faces several crises overseas. we examine america abroad and the international challenges facing the new president. then, we return to mexico, where the country is strengthening its southern border against central americans fleeing north to escape violence and poverty. >> there's a private security company that prevents migrants from getting on the train, and they have built these concrete barriers, just a few inches from the edge of the train. >> woodruff: and, learning history through song. high school students compose a choral history lesson about world war ii japanese-american internment camps. >> it's my hope that people can

really look at this and say, "we can't isolate a group of people just for who they are." >> woodruff: all that and more, on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> bnsf railway. >> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> supported by the rockefeller foundation. promoting the wellbeing of humanity around the world, by building resilience and inclusive economies. more at www.rockefellerfoundation.org.

>> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the u.s. military blasted islamic state fighters in afghanistan today with the biggest non-nuclear bomb in the american arsenal. the target was a tunnel complex in nangarhar province, near the pakistani border.

the bomb contains 11 tons of explosives, but had never been used in actual combat. president trump said it shows the u.s. is taking the fight to isis. >> if you look at what's happened over last eight weeks and compare that to, really what's happened over the last eight years, you'll see there's a tremendous difference. tremendous difference. >> woodruff: just last week, a u.s. army special forces soldier was killed in the same area where the bomb was dropped. syrian president bashar al-assad is out with a fresh denial of any role in a poison gas attack. the strike last week killed 87 people, including children, and the u.s. responded a few days later with a cruise missile attack on a syrian military air base. assad spoke with "agence france- presse" and said he would agree to an "impartial investigation." >> we don't have any chemical weapons. we gave up our arsenal a few years ago. even if we have them, we wouldn't use them, and we have

never used our chemical arsenal in our history. our impression is that the west, mainly the united states, is hand in glove with the terrorists. they fabricated the whole story in order to have a pretext for the attack. >> woodruff: meanwhile, the syrian army claimed the u.s. coalition hit an islamic state chemical weapons warehouse last night and killed hundreds of people. separately, the pentagon acknowledged another strike in syria mistakenly killed 18 rebels battling isis. the european court of human rights ruled today that russia used excessive force in the beslan school siege of 2004. more than 330 people died in the southern russian city. about half were children. heavily armed islamic militants

from checnya stormed the school, triggering a nearly three-day stand-off. russian forces used tanks and grenade launchers to end the siege. moscow vowed to appeal today's finding. back in this country, president trump signed legislation that lets states deny federal funds to planned parenthood. it also includes other groups that provide abortions. the action rescinds an obama-era rule that said states could not block the money. and, wall street followed financial stocks lower today. the dow jones industrial average lost 138 points to close at 20,453. the nasdaq fell 31, and the s&p 500 gave up 16. still to come on the newshour: the international challenges facing the trump administration; changing course, the president's shifting views on domestic policies; the deported, mexico secures its own border, and much more.

>> woodruff: the last week has seen significant changes in the way the trump white house views the world. and what began as a presidency emphasizing retrenchment on the home front, has been quickly refocused on the u.s. role abroad. >> u.s.a., u.s.a. >> woodruff: he bills himself the "america first" president, but it's world affairs that have risen to the top of his agenda lately. syria's use of chemical weapons, the u.s. response, and president trump's own words have raised fresh questions about his foreign policy. >> right now, the world is a mess. but i think by the time we finish, i think it's going to be a lot better place to live. >> woodruff: still, on syria, for one example, there are competing messages. defense secretary james mattis said tuesday the priority remains defeating the islamic

state, and not removing president bashar al-assad, despite last week's poison gas attack. >> this was a separate issue that arose in the midst of that campaign. the use by the assad regime of chemical weapons, and we addressed that militarily. >> woodruff: but mr. trump sounded a harsher note yesterday, calling assad an animal, and worse. >> that's a butcher. that's a butcher. >> woodruff: the issue dominated secretary of state rex tillerson's tense visit to moscow yesterday. tillerson said relations with russia were at a "low point." mr. trump agreed, but said he hopes for an eventual thaw. >> it'd be a fantastic thing if we got along with putin and if we got along with russia, and that could happen. and it may not happen; it may be just the opposite. >> woodruff: today, the president tweeted:

"things will work out fine between the u.s.a. and russia. at the right time, everyone will come to their senses and there will be lasting peace!" another obstacle to that "lasting peace" is north korea's nuclear testing and missile program. the president has dispatched an american aircraft carrier group to the region, and he's pressing china's president xi jinping to help bring the north to heel. >> he's a terrific person. we spent a lot of time together in florida. and he's a very special man. so we'll see how it goes. i think he's going to try very hard. >> woodruff: that vow comes amid reports that pyongyang may be readying for another nuclear test. and, japan warns the north may now be able to load a missile warhead with nerve gas. for more on the challenges facing the trump white house, and its options going forward, we turn to two men with deep military and diplomatic knowledge. ambassador william burns retired from the state department in 2014, after serving as deputy

secretary of state under president obama. he also was ambassador to russia, and to jordan, over his 33-year diplomatic career. he is now the president of the carnegie endowment for international peace. and, retired admiral james stavridis, who served as nato supreme allied commander from 2009 to 2013, the first naval officer to hold that position. after 37 years in the u.s. navy, he now serves as dean of the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tufts university. and we welcome both of you to the news hour. right now we're thinking we remember all this analysis during the campaign that this was a president who was going to be reluctant to use u.s. force abroad, to project the united states militarily. but admiral stavridis, with now this news today, dropping a bomb in afghanistan, the strike on the airfield in syria, the threat in effect toward north

korea, are we seeing something very different, a president who is very prepared to use military force? >> i think if you look at the personality involved, there's always been a persona of toughness about donald trump, so i'm not shocked or even really surprised at this. it does fly in the face of some of his campaign rhetoric, judy, but i do think that the strike in syria, which i believe is really the one to concentrate on, is a fairly well-thought-out, strategic message that says the united states will use force. we intend to be at the table in the middle east. and i think it has a hopefully sobering impact on china and north korea. the big bomb today is really a tactical move. it is a big bomb, but it is not going the change facts on the ground or send a big signal. it's the strike in syria to focus on. >> woodruff: ambassador burns, do you see a strategy in all of this right now?

>> i think every new administration undergoes a lot of changes on first contact with reality. but i have to admit that the pace and scope of the changes we've seen even in the last few days in the trump administration really do make your head spin a little bit. i think the big question is whether or not the tactical shifts, the reaction, the impulses add up to a strategy. in other words, a disciplined approach to america's role in the world, which lays emphasis on our alliances, on our ability to mobilize other countries around the world to deal with common problems, it sees them not as the trump campaign rhetoric held, but as huge assets as opposed to lonelier major powers like china and russia. >> woodruff: apply that to the situation in syria. on the one hand you have the administration saying this is a one-off. it was an attempt to send a signal the president assad that the u.s. will react if he uses

chemical weapons again. on the other hand, you have the president describing president assad as an animal, as we've heard. it isn't entirely clear i think to everyone watching what the u.s. approach to syria is. >> i completely agree, both with your comment and with ambassador burns. i think it is interesting to note that all this occurs with an overlay of the nato secretary-general coming to washington and having a, by all accounts, a very good meeting with president trump. i think bolstering the point that ambassador burns is making is that america is so much better, so much stronger together with our allies, with our friends, and i hope that in syria nato can be brought along to be part of a coalition against the islamic state and perhaps over time against assad. we'll see. but the salient point here is the use of force and the willingness to do so.

i agree with ambassador burns, we have yet to see a coherent strategy emerge. let's hope we coand let's hope it includes the ideas of allies, partners and friends. >> woodruff: apply the question, ambassador burns, the one you just raised a minute ago to, what we're seeing in syria and connect that to this what appears to be a new approach the russia. the president sounded very complimentary toward vladimir putin again for months and months. now he is saying putin is on the wrong side os this major question in syria. >> it was an illusion to think that the trump administration is going to be able to pull off a grand bargain, a total normalization of u.s.-russia relation, because there's too much of a disconnect i think right now in the way each putin and russia and the united states sees the question of international order. but i'm surprised with the speed with which things have flipped over the course of just the last week or so. >> woodruff: how does what you're hearing, admiral

stavridis, the administration say and do about russia fit into what you just described a moment ago with regard to nato and the fact that this does now seem to be a president who is ready to work with nato? >> i think it's a reflection of the fact that there has been a wreath we used to talk a lot about, a reset with russia, which hoped to move us in a positive direction. here we see a reset of reality, exactly as ambassador burns says, it's a wave of russian bad behavior washing over, that, judy, has a very sal youtory effect on nato. its stock goes up as russia's stock goes down, precisely because in order to work with russia, we have to project strength to russia. that means using the nato alliance as part of that. i would say that we should confront russia where we must on syria, cyber attacks on the united states, on the invasion of ukraine and the annexation of crimea. confront where we must, but

cooperate where we can. will let's find some zones of cooperation. >> woodruff: there's so much more i want to ask you both about, including china, but i don't want to let you get away, ambassador bill burns, without asking about the president's approach. this unpredictability, this notion that he's keeping america's allies and adversaries off balance. is that a strategy in and of itself? >> occasionally unpredictability can be a useful thing. but i think you have to be careful about, you know, the importance of consistency in american foreign policy. whether it's friends or foes, we generally get further in the world when we're consistent and coherent in how we approach our strategy in the world, because otherwise friends begin to doubt our resolve or sometimes doubt our leadership, and foes are attempted to try the take advantage when they're not sure the approach the united states is going to take. >> woodruff: admiral stavridis, what about that? >> agree completely, and i'll simply add to it that, again, we

want to be tactically surprising. we don't want to telegraph our raid or the weapons system we're going to use or where the next carrier will pop up, but strategically we need consistency, we need a plan, and that is yet to be seen from this administration. i do feel that the last few days we've seen things moving in a better direction. let's be hopeful that that kind of strategic consistency evolved, that we keep tactical surprise when we need. to together they will help us create a positive foreign policy. >> if you want to pursue the kind of strategy that jim stavridis was just describing, you have to sustain the institutions that help you to carry that out. when you propose a budget that would essentially gut some of those institutions, reduced by 30% at least in the projection, you know, the state department's budget, the budget for foreign assistance, you're creating a situation in which you're almost inevitably going to overrely on

the use of force as your tool of first resort, and you're going to miss opportunities diplomatically as well as using foreign assistance smartly with regard to key fragile states to try to avoid the kind of concepts and failures that ultimately drag in the u.s. military at far greater cost. >> woodruff: all of which is worth taking another long look at that. ambassador bill burns, admiral james stavridis, we thank you both very much. >> thanks so much. >> thanks, judy. >> woodruff: president trump has been observed to change his stated position on issues-- sometimes within days or even hours of what he last said. the president and his team have said he's being flexible, and that many people have changed their views to match his. but he has made some moves that reverse statements he made during the campaign, in particular on economic policy.

hari sreenivasan in our new york studio has the story >> sreenivasan: for president trump, it's all about pointing out that he's done what he said he'd do. he tweeted last night that his administration has kept promises "on the border, on energy, on jobs, on regulations." but he's also made a series of reversals in recent days. in an interview yesterday with "the wall street journal", he said he will not label china as a currency manipulator. that's a stark departure from his posture throughout the presidential campaign, that he'd brand beijing on day one. >> we are going to stand up to china on its massive currency manipulation. because they are beating our companies. >> sreenivasan: and, just 11 days ago, he told the "financial times" that the chinese were the "world champions" of cheapening their currency to boost exports. then came his meeting with chinese president xi jinping. now, mr. trump says xi's government is not currently manipulating its currency, and

that claiming otherwise might jeopardize chinese cooperation on north korea. in the same interview, the president said he would not release guidelines for tax reform legislation until he gets "health care done." that underscored what he told fox business network a day earlier. >> we have a great health care plan that i think will happen, and if it happens, then i go immediately to tax reform. >> sreenivasan: but that's a 180 from last month, after house republicans failed to rally the votes to repeal and replace obamacare. >> so now we're going to go for tax reform, which i've always liked. >> sreenivasan: and on the subject of taxes, in the "fox" interview, mr. trump declined to say outright that he'd support the so-called "border adjustment" tax to give u.s. companies favorable treatment on exports and imports. >> when i hear "border adjustment," adjustment means we lose. we lose. so, i don't like the term "border adjustment." >> sreenivasan: the president also did not rule out keeping federal reserve chair janet

yellen for another turn. and, he said he likes the fed's low-interest rate policy. during the campaign, he said the opposite, on both yellen and interest rates. ditto on the export-import bank. on the campaign trail, he called it unnecessary. in the "wall street journal" interview, he praised it for helping small businesses and overseas companies that buy american. let's try to unpack some of the reasoning behind these changes, and their impact. carol lee of the "wall street journal" interviewed the president on wednesday; and robert costa covers the white house for the "washington post." carol, let me start with you. currency manipulation not something we talk about very often, but the president did talk a lot about this on the campaign trail. what he said to you was the opposite of what he's been saying for a very long time. >> that's right. during the campaign then-candidate trump promised many times, it was one of his go-to lines, that he would not only label china a currency

manipulator but do it on day one of his presidency, and when he spoke to us yesterday in our interview, he was asked about this, and his response was two fold. one, he said, china is no longer a currency manipulator, so he doesn't need to label them a currency manipulator, that they haven't been manipulating their currency he said since he took office. they've been doing it for some time before that, but that was his first reasoning. number the work he said, even if they were manipulating their currency, now is not the time because he needs china to take steps to help him implement a policy that confronts north korea, the north korea threat. so two reasons, but it's a prtty significant reversal because it's one that he promised that he made multiple times on the campaign trail and now he's saying he doesn't need to do it. >> sreenivasan: robert, health care according to these

interviews is back on the table. you fawmly is got the phone call after the health care bill didn't make it to the floor. he said it's not health care, we're moving on the taxes. what happened, do you think in. >> there's a big push from the republican base to have the g.o.p. majority in the congress and of course the white house white house follow through on the promises they made during the 2016 campaign. you saw this on the ground this past week in the kansas house special election. you see it ahead of next tuesday where there is a special house election in georgia. republicans want to see action on health care and on taxes. that's why as much as the president told me and others that he may shelve the health care bill for the moment and look for democrats down the line to come back to the bargaining table, he's at the top of a party that wants movement, and that's why we see congress during this recess starting to reengage on that issue. >> sreenivasan: carol, was there some rational that he offered to you about why his

thinking is changing on these things? >> well, there are different rationales for different changes that he made. he discussed the one about currency manipulation. he also talked about his views on the chairwoman of the federal reserve, janet yellen, who he was sharply critical of during the campaign. he said he met her, he liked her, he respects her. he left open the possibility of nominating her again. he spoke about russia, about china. there was one particular instance where very early on in the interview he talked about president xi of exn and meeting him and how he went into that meeting telling him he thought it was easy for china to pressure north korea, that they had a lot of power over north korea and he should be able to easily handle that issue, and he said president xi went into the history of china and korea, and within ten minutes president trump said that he realized it's not so easy for china to just take care of the north korea problem because they don't have as much power as he thought they

did. so there is, you know, he walked through his thinking on that. so he's more sympathetic to the chinese in terms of what they're able to do to help him on the north korea issue. >> sreenivasan: robert, what carol is saying, certainly some part of it, the president realizing that things are much more complicated when you're behind the desk. how much of it is the forces at work inside the white house, the different power struggles that you've been documenting? >> the political environment inside of the west wing is certainly a factor as president trump thinks through his decisions. based on my reporting, there are certain people right now who have very flannial -- influential voices in the ear of the president, in particular gary cone, a former goldman sachs executive, dina powell, the deputy national security adviser and a former george w. bush official in that white house, as well as jared kushner, his son-in-law, and his daughter, ivanka. they comp out of a more centrist

republican, even democratic air a like cone. you also have h.r. mcmaster, who is a republican hawk. so these non-interventionist instincts that we saw with the president teem to have faded with the syria strike and now this action in afghanistan. and we see steve bannon demoteed, still in the white house but not at influential. >> sreenivasan: speaking of bannon, he minimized his role. >> he did. it was a very interesting moment. we asked him what to make of his comments the previous day in the "new york post" where he said that, you know, he didn't distance himself from steve bannon. the president says he's his own strategist and tried to diminish that role. we said, what should we make of those comments, and the president's response was, well,

you know, he's a guy who works for me, which is a really understatement, and he said he also said, "i am my own strategist, and in saying that, it was something he repeated again, it is very clear that he is trying to set the tone, that he's in charge, and not only was he frustrated with some of the overshadowing that was happening with steve bannon and some of the parodies that were out there about him and how he was controlling trump. i think the president also then as robert reported very -- got very frustrated between tin fighting with steve bannon and his son-in-law. he told them they needed to work it out. we asked him if he planned on having the same team in six months. he said, i like my team, but i don't know. maybe i'll make some changes. maybe i don't. >> sreenivasan: how do you cover a president, robert, something ten days previous to this that he's going to do

something completely different than what he does? >> in a way it's almost predictable, having covered the president for a few years, you know this is a non-ideological president, unlike president obama who was mounting his own version of a liberal progressive project or george w. bush with his compassionate conservatism or even with ronald reagan, decades ago, with his conservative movement, but with president trump at the center of it all, he wants to do what's best for him, his own popularity, his own standing rather than necessarily his party or an ideology. so he is susceptible to shift with the political winds and to make decisionsful. >> sreenivasan: all right. robert costa, carol lee, thank you both. >> thank you. >> woodruff: stay with us. coming up on the newshour: what the u.s. could learn from simpler tax systems used by other countries; high school

students write a musical work about u.s. internment camps; and, a lawyer's brief take on racial injustice in america. but next, we head back to mexico. on tuesday, we reported from mexico's northern border with the u.s. tonight, we travel to mexico's southern border-- guatemala, honduras, and el salvador are the world's deadliest countries outside war zones. many central americans flee violence and poverty, and hope to reach the u.s. mexican authorities are now trying to block their movement, but critics are asking: at what cost? special correspondent nick schifrin begins his report tonight in ciudad hidalgo, on mexico's southern tip, on the river that separates mexico from guatemala. >> reporter: on this border, the sound of the water is the sound of hope. the suchiate river separates guatemala from the southern mexican state of chiapas.

every day thousands of central americans cross north, dreaming of more peaceful and prosperous lives. there's no security and no authorities. the rafts are inner tubes with plywood planks. entire families travel together. women bring their children. each crossing costs 50 cents, but many can't afford that, so they walk across for free, barefoot. leading the way, in the backpacks, are 21-year-old dilber avila and his 15-year-old brother, eduardo hernandez. they're from honduras. >> ( translated ): we're very poor there. the house we live in is made of mud. it could collapse on us at any point. so we went on our way to look for a better life. >> reporter: they're not sure how far north they'll go. they've heard the route is dangerous, but they're hopeful, and willing to sacrifice. >> ( translated ): this path is tricky. you never know how it'll go. with the help of our lord watching over us as we travel, we pray, and he sends angels to help us on our journey. >> reporer: in total, 450,000 people are crossing the border

every year. some will just go for the day, to shop or sell. but for many others, this is the first moment of a long, dangerous journey north. their first destination is the mexican city of tapachula. the shelter, run by todo por ellos-- "all for them" in spanish-- offers them a safe place to stay. in the last two years, more than 900,000 unaccompanied central american children have crossed into mexico. 11-year-old luis uno de lyon fled el salvador to escape horrific violence. >> ( translated ): i have a brother who was in a gang, and they told me they wanted to kill me. they entered my house. they hit me and said they will kill me. i had to leave. my dream as an immigrant is to reach america and meet my mother. i don't want to stay here. i want to go and stay in america. >> reporter: this is his bed. he's been sleeping here for a year. what do you want to be when you grow up? >> juez de migrante.

>> reporter: a migration judge. why? >> ( translated ): to help migrants achieve their dreams. >> reporter: increasingly, those dreams stay alive here-- outside the local immigration office. this group of hondurans are applying for mexican humanitarian visas so they can travel north more safely. >> ( translated ): i am trying to get to america. i know that there are many risks travelling through mexico safely and i have heard about people getting hurt. i don't want to be hurt, so this permit will protect me. >> reporter: 22-year-old nata jimenez is from honduras. he says many immigrants believe under president trump, the u.s. is harder to reach, and deportation is more likely. but he won't be dissuaded. >> ( translated ): even if i can send a minimum of $100 per month, it means a lot to me. america is the land of opportunity. >> reporter: but mexico has always struggled to assist central americans who are here temporarily, before they move north. at night, the group of hondurans wanders the street. they didn't bring any paperwork from home, so they can't work. they can't afford to rent rooms. where will you sleep tonight? >> ( translated ): well, i keep repeating myself, but the truth is that we don't know. i haven't been told, and no one knows where they will go.

>> reporter: why is it worth having to sleep on the street in order to get to the u.s.? >> ( translated ): there are gangs and so much crime and violence back home. i believe that this is an important goal that i must achieve, and all the suffering i face will be worth it. i have to think about my family and about helping them. >> reporter: 40-year-old rosa knows her future will be in mexico. she's from el salvador, and has lived here for four months. she received asylum and spends her days selling traditional stuffed tortillas called pupusas. she too fled violence and poverty. >> ( translated ): then they sent someone to attack me. they asked me for $75. i couldn't pay my rent, so i couldn't afford to pay them. >> reporter: she longs to live in the u.s., but the journey would cost $5,000. so she's staying. tapachula is safe. >> ( translated ): i wake up early and nothing happens. i am out till late, selling on the streets, and it's safe. back home, at 6:00 p.m. everyone goes inside and you can find danger at every corner. >> reporter: more and more central americans are deciding to stay in mexico. in 2011, 752 central americans applied for asylum in mexico. in 2017, the u.n. estimates that

number will be more than 22,000. these are the persons who have no choice but to leave their paola bolognesi is a u.n. refugee agency protection officer. she says asylum cases started rising two years ago, thanks mostly to an education campaign. >> we are making a big effort to providing this information. >> reporter: mexican authorities say fewer migrants are coming in because of efforts to stop them. for the last three years, the government has created rings of security within 100 miles of the border. police use checkpoints to find drugs and migrants. mexico is now finding and deporting more migrants than the united states is. in the past, la bestia, or the beast, used to be covered in central americans riding north, toward the united states. but today, mexican authorities have tried to make it much more

difficult for migrants to ride these trains. there's a private security company that prevents migrants from getting on the train. and they have built these concrete barriers, just a few inches from the edge of the train. the idea is to make it much more dangerous to jump from the train. that danger has reduced the number of train riders, but it's also killed three migrants in this stretch, says immigrant rights activist sergio luna. >> ( translated ): we call these structures is a clear violation against the human rights of migrants. >> reporter: luna runs la sagrada famiila shelter, right next to the train tracks. we are 500 miles north of the mexico-guatemala border. he says mexico's methods to deter migrants are brutal. >> ( translated ): mexico does the u.s.' dirty work, in a way. some migrant controls have even militarized. we're at a turning point, when it comes to a marked increase in institutionalized violence against migrants.

>> reporter: why can't you better protect these migrants who are moving north? >> the issue is that it is not the authorities who are violating human rights. you have to include drug trafficking. >> reporter: carlos sada solana is mexico's deputy foreign minister. but do you acknowledge that there are some authorities in southern mexico that are abusing these migrants? >> well, i think that everywhere. you cannot say in the united states that there is not. >> reporter: in the last five years, mexico has passed a handful of laws guaranteeing migrants' rights, but many of the migrants accuse authorities of threats and extortion. 21-year-old david gonzales is from honduras. he crossed the border 18 days ago, hoping to get to the u.s. >> ( translated ): i was approached by state police. they took me to the station, accused me of burglary, took everything i had, stripped me down, left me naked, took all my money. they gave me a choice. i can either take my money and they'll lock me up for a crime i didn't commit, or i can leave without my money. so i left. we're no longer migrants, but a business for those who take advantage of our situation. >> reporter: he used to live in

texas and north carolina, and made in one day as a gardener what it took him one week to make at home. but he says he's now giving up on getting back to the u.s. >> ( translated ): it's no longer worth it. laws have changed, a new president has been inaugurated who doesn't want us because he says we're "the bad guys;" what he doesn't understand, with all due respect, the migrant who goes there, goes just to work. >> reporter: 25-year-old mendez menedez has also given up his american dreams. we met him on the train tracks. >> ( translated ): i was scared of being detained. it wasn't worth me going, there's so many people who have lived in the united states for years who are being deported. >> reporter: but he says he's been treated so badly here, he doesn't trust mexico either. so he's headed south, back home to guatemala. >> ( translated ): i don't feel safe here in mexico. aside from organized crime authorities who also extort us, they ask us for money, if we don't hand it over, they beat us. >> reporter: menendez climbs the train, and asks his friend to take a photo. it's the closest he gets to the journey north. the train leaves without him, without so many others whose

difficult journey north meant they lost hope. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin in apizaco, mexico. >> woodruff: it's tax season, a dreaded time for many americans feeling taxed as they complete forms that many feel have become too complicated. so, as congress and president trump weigh changes to the tax system, our economics correspondent paul solman looks at what we can learn from other countries. it's part of his series, "making sense," which airs every thursday. >> reporter: taxes. americans have been griping about them ever since the revolution. 200 years later, in 1985, president ronald reagan gave this assessment of the tax code: >> complicated, unfair, cluttered with gobbledygook and loopholes designed for those with the power and influence to

hire high-priced legal and tax advisers. >> reporter: the next year, reagan signed into law our last major income tax reform: lower rates, fewer loopholes. a lot of good it did. 30 years later, house speaker paul ryan told judy woodruff: >> we have the worst tax code in the industrialized world, bar none. >> reporter: so, what we can learn from the rest of the world about taxes? writer t.r. reid took us to the new zealand embassy in washington to explain. >> new zealand is a model of good tax policy. they've done what all the economists think is right, to get a tax code that is simple, fair and efficient. >> reporter: reid, a former "washington post" foreign bureau chief, has reported from around the world for decades. for his latest book, "a fine mess" reid went on a global quest for a better tax system. he really liked new zealand's formula: b.b.l.r.

>> b.b.l.r.: broaden the base, lower the rates. so you broaden the base by making everything taxable. if your employer gives you free parking, well, in new zealand they say, "gee, that would cost $20 a month, that's income to you." if your employer pays your health insurance, "that's income to you." and then, you know, you want to buy a house with a mortgage, that's fine, you don't get a tax break for it. they have rates less than half of ours, and they bring in more money per capita. >> reporter: and for kiwis like ben contreras, filing couldn't be simpler. >> for most people, you don't have to take any time out to take care of your taxes every year. >> reporter: but contreras has worked in the u.s. for three years. filing his taxes now requires the help of often bedeviling computer software. a heavy price to pay, says reid. >> americans spend about six billion hours a year collecting the data and filling out the forms. we spend $10 billion to h&r block and other preparers. and on top of that, $2 billion in tax preparation software,

which still takes hours of work. it's outrageous, the burden we put on people. >> reporter: and how long does it take to do your income taxes or file your income taxes in some of these countries, if it's so simple? >> i was in the netherlands on march 31, that's the day before their taxes are due. i was with an executive who makes $200,000 a year, two mortgages, a lot of investments. he'd have to fill out 12 forms in america. i said, "michael, how do you pay your taxes?" he pops a beer, he goes online. the government's filled in every line. if the numbers look right, he clicks "okay." it takes five minutes. in japan, you get a postcard from the i.r.s. that says, "we think you made this much. we withheld this much. we owe you a refund of that much. we'll put it in your bank on april 1." it takes one minute, if you think the numbers are right. and i said to my friend togo, "you know, in america, people spend hours, days, filling out these forms." and he said to me, "why would anybody want to do that?" >> reporter: you explained to him nobody does. >> i said nobody does, yeah.

and guess what, paul? we could do that here. the i.r.s. could fill in every line of the return for most american families. they know all the numbers. have you ever gotten a cp-2000 letter? this is the one that says, "on line 48q, you entered $4,211, but actually it should have been $4,681." and i get that every year, and i think, why did i spend hours trying to fill this out when they knew? so some members of congress have suggested that the i.r.s. fill out the forms for us. and h&r block and the tax software companies lobby against it. so here's the deal: you do more work, they make more money. >> reporter: so what are the most egregious absurdities of the tax system, in your view? >> there are hundreds and hundreds of giveaways for specific groups or specific companies. i have this scene in my book where the president goes to congress and says, "here's a great idea. let's send a check for $7,500 to anybody who buys $138,000 bmw

hybrid car." we'd never do that, would we? it's in the tax code. i have a list here of stuff you get a write-off for, you ready? >> reporter: sure. >> you get a write-off for contributing to charity, taking a night school course-- >> reporter: hey, wait, stop. contributing to charity, surely that's a good thing? you want to encourage people to give to charity, right? >> yeah, but it doesn't work. many countries have gotten rid of it, and there's a pattern. for one year, there's a small blip in contributions, and then it goes up again at the rate of income increase. people give because they want to help. >> reporter: and of course, the charitable deduction is just one of thousands. >> so, you get a deduction in america for taking a night school course, growing sugarcane, moving to a new city for a job, replanting a forest, insulating the attic, destroying old farm equipment, employing native americans, commuting to work by bicycle or buying a plug-in hybrid sports car, or buying a recreational vehicle. i mean, there are hundreds of them, and most of them are nuts.

>> reporter: so why can't we get rid of these provisions in the united states? >> because in the united states, unlike any other advanced democracy, money really talks. and there are more than 400 additions to the tax code every year, and most of them are giveaways to one or two taxpayers. now, if there were good reasons for these clauses, they would put in there who's going to benefit and what's it for. but in fact, if you read the tax code, it says, "here's a tax break for any company incorporated in delaware on october 13, 1916." now that's general motors, but they never say that. and the tax code is full of these things, where they don't mention the name, but it helps one taxpayer. >> reporter: are americans right to hate the aptly named tax burden that we bear, both in the income tax and taxes overall? >> well, we're right to hate how hard it is to file, but if you take the amount, the check you have to write, no, we're getting off easy. of the 35 richest countries in

total tax burden, u.s. ranks 33. and in return, our government spends less as a percentage of g.d.p. than other governments. you hear all this stuff about spendthrift big government? relative to other rich countries, our government is a penny-pincher. >> reporter: so we pay less, but we complain more? >> yeah, americans complain about tax more than any other country. in many countries, the i.r.s. agency is the most respected government agency. get this: in japan, this movie, "marusa no onna," or "audit bureau woman," won best picture, best actor, best actress. it's about this perky, pretty young auditor in the tokyo tax bureau who goes after a big evader. he rides around tokyo in this chauffeur-driven white rolls- royce, and our heroine is chasing him on this little scooter. it's total david and goliath, and in the end, she nails him, and everybody in the audience cheers. can you imagine casting meg ryan

as a peppy, pretty i.r.s. auditor who goes after people? i don't think hollywood would do that. >> reporter: well, i was thinking julia roberts, but no, the i.r.s. superhero remains an oscar long-shot. but there is hope for the system, says reid. >> everybody and every party agrees that our code is a mess. it's unfair, it's complicated, it's inefficient, needs to be fixed. and the way to fix it is to do it big, as other countries have done. so i think even the u.s. congress will figure this out. >> reporter: t.r. reid is one thoughtful and well-traveled journalist. but i remain the pbs newshour's skeptical economics correspondent, paul solman, reporting from washington d.c. >> woodruff: next, some california high school students are singing to examine a painful chapter in u.s. history.

along the way, they're discovering some connections to their own lives. jeffrey brown reports from los angeles. >> ♪ where can i be an american if not in america? ♪ >> brown: where can i be an american, if not here? it's a question posed by students at van nuys high school in los angeles, part of a 45-minute oratorio they wrote and composed, working and singing with professionals from the prestigious los angeles chorale. titled, "in america," it's about the experience of japanese americans forced to leave their homes for internment camps during world war ii. the chorale has been doing this work in l.a. schools for 15 years, choosing historical themes the students would find relevant. this time, says alice kirwan

murray, who served as lead teaching artist, they got more than they bargained for. >> this story is an enormous tragedy, and i find it fairly alarming that 75 years ago this occurred. but what i also found alarming was that the students were not that surprised by it. many of them, as immigrants themselves, have faced similar suspicion and bias and mistreatment, and they were not that surprised to know of this story. it's very relatable to them. >> brown: van nuys high has seen its share of stars: among its famous students were marilyn monroe, robert redford, and natalie wood. this area and the school were once mostly white, but now are majority latino. some are very new immigrants, like sophomore rafael gomez, who came here from mexico last summer. >> ( translated ): i enjoy singing this because it has a lot of meaning. especially the part where it says "don't judge me because i

am different." just because someone is of a different race or has different color skin, they shouldn't be judged before you get to know them. >> brown: to learn about this earlier moment in american history, the students read, researched, and visited l.a.'s japanese american national museum, where they heard stories of survivors of the camps. mas yamashita was six when his family was sent to topav camp in utah. >> i was able to tell them about my personal experiences, and it seems to always help students to relate to the experiences if they can meet somebody who actually experienced it. >> brown: seniors olivia rodriguez and lucy white said they didn't know much about that dark period of american history, until now. >> how hard it was for everyone to leave their homes and what they knew? there was a huge divide between the american people, the japanese american people and the japanese-born people. >> i really just wanted to illustrate truthfully the struggle, the awful, awful

struggle that these people went through, and that their country forced them into. >> brown: the students also conducted interviews with family members about their own immigration stories. brianne arevalo is the school's choir director. >> even students that weren't immigrants themselves, they may have family members, maybe grandma or grandpa were immigrants. neighbors. in this community, everybody knows some immigrant. and so, whether they've gone through it personally themselves or they were able to share in somebody else's experience, every single student got something so powerful and a really deep meaning out of this project. >> brown: for everyone involved, the resulting work, nine movements in all, resonated with today's political debates. >> ♪ dream the american dream >> brown: olivia rodriguez is a second generation american of mexican heritage. >> i repeatedly say "move to america, move to america.

live the american dream." >> brown: what do those lines mean to you? >> i think i was trying to be that hope for the people, and show how important it was for these people to come to america. and then towards the end of the piece they're saying, "how can i live in america if i don't feel american, if i'm not being treated like other americans?" >> brown: for mas yamashita, who attended a final rehearsal, the emotions of long ago were still raw. >> they were flashing pictures from the camps, and the lyrics the students wrote was just bringing back a lot of those emotions. i was ashamed of being in the camp. i never told anybody. it was probably 30 years before i discussed the camp. >> brown: because of the shame you felt. >> yes. it's my hope that people can

really look at this and say, "we can't isolate a group of people just for who they are." >> ♪ don't suspect me because i'm different ♪ >> brown: and for the los angeles chorale, this outreach is also about the power of art. >> it's important to us certainly to engage young people in the creative arts and performing arts and choral arts. it is the first art form, really, the human voice. we all possess this. so for us to grab those students and let them know that they have that ability, they have that power. it's the ultimate communication. >> ♪ in america >> brown: from van nuys high school in los angeles, i'm jeffrey brown, for the pbs newshour.

>> woodruff: finally, another in our "brief but spectacular" series. tonight, we hear from attorney bryan stevenson, executive director of the equal justice initiative. >> i was doing a hearing in the midwest. i had my suit and tie on, i was there early. it was the first time i'd been in that courtroom, and i sat down at defense counsel's table as i always do. and the judge walked in, and the judge said, "hey, hey, hey, you get back out there and you wait out there in the hallway, until your lawyer gets here. i don't want any defendant sitting in my courtroom without their lawyer." and i stood up and i said, "i'm sorry, your honor, i didn't introduce myself. my name is bryan stevenson. i am the lawyer." and the judge started laughing, and the prosecutor started laughing, and i made myself laugh because i didn't want to disadvantage my client. but afterwards, i was thinking,

"what is it that when this judge saw a middle-aged black man, it didn't even occur to him that that man sitting at defense counsel's table was the lawyer?" i worry about that judge. i worry that he's sentencing defendant of color more harshly. i worry that he doesn't value and accept the testimony of black and brown witnesses the way he does other people. i worry that a narrative of racial difference compromises his ability to provide fair and just treatment of all people. i don't think we're free in america. i think we are burdened by our history of racial inequality. we have a history of horrific mistreatment of people based on color, and i think that narrative of racial difference that was cultivated, to justify that mistreatment, has created a kind of smog, and we've all been breathing it in. if you read the 13th amendment, it doesn't talk about narratives of racial difference. it doesn't talk about ideologies of white supremacy. it only talks about involuntary servitude and forced labor, and

because of that, i don't think slavery ended in 1865. i think it just evolved. we had decades of terrorism and violence, where black people were pulled out of their homes, burned alive, hung, beaten to death, sometimes literally on the courthouse lawn, and we never talked about that. and then we had this era of civil rights resistance to racial segregation, and we've made progress, but we haven't confronted the narrative of racial difference. unlike south africa, where you are required to hear about the damage done by apartheid. unlike germany. in berlin, germany, you can't go 100 meters without seeing markers or stones or monuments placed near the homes of jewish families abducted during the holocaust. but in this country, we don't talk about slavery. we don't talk about lynching. we don't talk about segregation. and our silence has condemned us. when i went to harvard law school my first year, i didn't want people to know i started my education in a colored school. i didn't want them to know i was a great grandson of enslaved people. i thought it might diminish me. and then i realized that my

power, if i have any, my strength, if i have any, my insight, if i have any, was shaped by those people who survived slavery. and it's in that story of survival that i think we have some greatness that we can offer, and not just people of color, but all of us who've learned to overcome. my name is bryan stevenson, and this is my "brief but spectacular" take on justice in america. >> woodruff: you can watch additional episodes of "brief but spectacular" on our website, www.pbs.org/newshour/brief. on the newshour online right now: it's exciting! nasa scientists say the waters swirling under the surface of saturn's moon, enceladus, may possess life-sustaining features previously seen only on earth. read all about their new findings on our website, www.pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday: we examine efforts to

save the historical convents of southern spain, seville, part of our "culture at risk" series. i'm judy woodruff. join us online, and again right here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> bnsf railway. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh ac

boom! hello, i'm julia child. welcome to my house. what fun we're going to have baking all kinds of incredible cakes, pies and breads right here in my own kitchen. flo braker, california's well- known baking teacher and author reaches back to classic french technique for her ladyfinger génoise which is the basis for creating these delicately delicious, decorative miniature cakes.