. >> welcome welcome to the program, we begin with senator elizabeth warren from massachusetts and talk about the plight of the middle class. >> donald trump heard the anger. the people who are angry, and you know what, who are right to be angry. angry, angry, that their kids can't get an education without getting crushed by student loan debt. angry that their wages haven't gone up for an entire generation. angry that after a lifetime of hard work that they qunt retire with any dignity and economic security. people who are right to be angry, only the difference was what donald trump promised and what donald trump has delivered have been night and day. have been in exactly opposite

directions. >> rose: we conclude this evening with a look at a new film called the promise, about the armenian genocide and starred christian bale, angela sarafyan, and directed by terry george. >> i was determined it would be pg-13 because ultimately it is a love story where we take the audience through these events and i wanted it to be accessible to teenagers and also to people who might feel that an a rated film about a genocide is something beyond which they want to see. the horror in it is psychological and suggested as much by our great actresses. >> rose: elizabeth warren and the armenian genocide when we continue. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: elizabeth warren is here, a senior senator from massachusetts and former harvard law school professor. she's also a long time champion of working families and the middle class. in february she was rebuked by the senate by quoting cor eta scott king during a debate on jeff sessions nomination for attorney general, here's a clib from cbs sunday morning. >> republicans voted to silence warren from impuning the character of trump's attorney general nominee alabama senator jeff sessions. >> she was warned. she was given an explanation. never the less, she persisted.

>> reporter: warren was reading a 1986 letter from the widow of martin luther king, jr. that criticized sessions. once silenced, she kept right on reading outside the senate chamber. >> mr. sessions sought to punch older rack iivil rights. >> do you think there was sexism. >> i think what was really going on there is a problem with having jeff sessions as attorney general of the united states. >> not secretariesism, would he have treated male senators dish from you. >> all can i say is the next day four men stood up and read the exact letter and all got to finish. >> rose: her book is called this fight is our fight, the fight to safe american's middle class. i'm pleezed to have elizabeth warren back at this table. >> thank you t is good to be here. >> rose: is this book, we see these come out within three or four years before a presidential election. president obama did it it.

secretary of state clinton did it. is this a kind of campaign campaign-- this is what elizabeth warren believes? >> it is about what elizabeth warren believes, but no, it is not a campaign, charlie, this is my 11th book. for me, books are part of how you fight. how you get in a fight and how you make an argument for what is t is that we need to change in this country and how we're going to get together and how we're going to change it that's what this book is about. >> rose: the battle to save america's middle class that is so, for me, anybody who follows politics, it is an essential argument that ought to be made. >> yeah. no kidding. in fact-- . >> rose: republican, democrat, libertarian. >> absolutely, vegetarian. >> rose: vegetarian. >> that really is the point of the book. the book has two things that wave all the way through. one is a long arc story about, it starts in 1935, it goes right up to 2016. and it's about how we built a

middle class, and about all the things then that took the legs out from underneath the middle class. it's a big economic argument about what has happened not just since trump got elected, what happened since 1935. >> rose: i think this is an important conversation. tell me how we built the middle class. >> so coming out of the great depression, i want to you keep this in mind. here comes the first part. gdp starts going up, and it keeps going up all the way to 2016. there's some bumps along the way but that is basically the long. >> gross domestic product, america is getting richer, richer, richer, good news, right? but i'm going to divide this line into two parts. 1935 to 1980, and then 1980 to 2016. so 1935 to 1980. what happens during that period of time. and the answer is is gdp is going up. america has progressive taxation, it's got pretty firm regulation on the biggest

financial institutions. and pretty firm regulation on the biggest corporation so that gives a lot of small businesses a chance to start up and make sure that banks aren't cheating people. but most of all, with that progressive taxation we're taking that money an we're investing in opportunity. so we're investing in public education, in a gi bill, we're investing in infrastructure and roads and bridges and national highway system. in power out in rural areas. we're investing in research, in a giant pipeline of ideas that help us build a robust economy. now here's the deal. it worked. it so worked. it's the part that just gives me goose bumps about what happened. 1935, to 1980, 90% of americans,-- everybody outside the top ten percent, 90% of all of america. upper middle class, working

class, the working poor, the poor poor. that 90 pergs of america got 70% of all the wage growth created in this country. okay, the rich did better. but the pie got bigger. the pie got bigger and everyone was doing better. and look, it wasn't perfect. african-americans locked solidly at the bottom. but even there, the idea of opportunity had taken hold. so in the 1960s and 1970s, the black, white wealth gap which has been with us for as long as we've measured, in the 6 0see and 7 0see, shrinks by 30%. we're not where we need to be. but we're on a good path. then we get hit. 1980. trickle down economics, ronald reagan, deregulate, turn giant corporations loose to do whatever they want, lessen forcement of antitrust laws. tell the banks to just haul off

and have a good time. and cut taxes for those at the top. and once you cut taxes for those at the top, you start dialing back on the investments in education, in infrastructure, and in basic research. in other words. >> rose: everything except defense. >> that's exactly right. make government work for those at the top, the rich and pot we areful get richer and they have more power. >> rose: this is a less idea logical argument. >> it certainly was but that is what it does. >> rose: it's not about getting rich but. >> no, it's about letting those at the top keep more of their unam. that is what tax breaks were sold on. and it would show trickle down for everyone. >> rose: they would invest it and create jobs and create companies. >> let them eat more cake and there will be more crumbs for everyone else. that was the argument. what happened, 1980, to 2016, gdp is still going up, country is still getting rich her.

the 90%, everyone outside the top ten percent, what proportion did they get of all that income growth, answer, zero, none. nearly 100% of the income grow from 1980 to 2016 goes to the top ten percent. >> rose: when you say income growth you mean. >> all the new income that is produced. all the new stuff that is coming in. that since 1980 the new growth in this country in income, people earning, what they get, how much money they get, has gone to the top ten percent. >> rose: but the top ten percent don't make their money, most of their big money from income growth-- they do from income but not from wages, not from salary. that's ordinary income. >> no, they do both. and that's the point, charlie. it all moved to the top. and the black white wealth gap tripled in that time period. in other words, what has happened in these two time

periods, is government once worked, made its filter, made its central middle of the target how do we make america work better for the middle class. now they switched it, from the '80s forward is how do we make it boxer for those at the top. >> rose: now it is 2016, and all of those things you suggested, people might pause at some of the arguments, but let's assume essentially are you true. >> plenty of documentation in the book. >> rose: american growth went forward and people felt like there was a huge income inequality, aboard that had lots of play before 1916 and before the campaign coming up. there was a election in 2016. and guess who one. >> i know. >> donald trump won. >> i know that. >> so did did donald trump win, the person were you campaigning for, the person you were infusing with ideas didn't win because he show had the capacity to speak a language-- language

that the people in part left behind responded to. >> yep. >> rose: agree? >> yeah, donald trump heard the anger. the people who are angry, and you know what, who are right to be angry. angry, angry that their kids can't get an education without getting crushed by student loan debt. angry that their wages haven't gone up for an entire generation. angry that after a lifetime of hard work that they can't retire with any dignity and economic security. people who are right to be angry. only the difference was, what donald trump promised and what donald trump has delivered have been night and day. have been in exactly opposite directions. >> rose: examples. >> all right, so he starts out after having carried on and on and on about goldman sachs, right, you remember that. >> rose: so did you.

>> i did. he then goes in and he hired an entire team of billionaires and bankers. he has got goldman sachs employees at the white house-- they can open a branch bank there. >> rose: so carry goan works for goldman sachs. who is to say he is not the most qualified person to have the job that he has. >> what i want to see, is somebody who has had some experience of seeing this economy from the other side. we've had enough people in republican and democratic administrations who have absolutely seen the world from the point of view of the billionaires. that is a problem we have had for a long time. >> rose: suppose you were the president-elect. >> okay, i will take that. >> rose: think about that for a moment. >> okay, got it. >> rose: what are the main tenets of your economic agenda beyond what you want to do in terms of reducing the income inequality, beyond what you want to do to make sure that the middle class is not losing place

in the american economic sphere. >> so let me answer this in a very personal way, because this really is what gets me up in the morning. >> rose: i can also say that you have said in this book that this is your life's work fighting for the middle class. >> it is. i grew up in a family that was holding on to its spot in the middle class truly by our finger nails. ups, a lot of downs, when my daddy had a heart attack when i was 12, long period of time with no money coming in. we lost the family car. we nearly lost the family house. my mother got a job at sears, minimum wage job. it saved our house, it safed our family. i wanted one thing in my life, i just wanted one door to open. and it was i wanted to be a teacher. i wanted to be a teacher from second grade on. i talk about this in the book. >> rose: and you talked about it in previous books too. >> and college is the only way

you get to be a teacher. >> rose: education is the key. >> that's right, education is a key, st a long sphorree but the bottomline is is, the only way that could happen for me was a commuter college that cost $50 a semester. it opened one door, and from that one door, here i am, the daughter of a maintenance man who ended up as a harvard law professor and a united states senator. now let me do the comparison straight out of this book. kai is a young woman in this book who has the same kind of dreams, has the same kind of ambition, she wants to work in a computer field. she's sure she can do this. she has in effect been practicing since she was a little kid. she's ready to go. only the difference with kai is that she gets her feet tangled up with a for-profit college and i pick her up in this book at 27 years old, with no diploma and $100,000 of student loan debt that she's trying to manage on a

waitresses salary and here's the part that really twists the knife. the united states government is making a profit off kai's loans. now the difference between those two girls who had dreams, young women who set off for college, elizabeth and kai, elizabeth grew up in an america that was opening doors. opening doors for more and more and more of our kids. kai grew up in an america where those opportunities are shrinking every day. that is fundamentally wrong. >> rose: how is your constituency, those people who have supported you or who today believe in your ideas different from the donald trump constituency that essentially elected him. >> i don't know, charlie. i mean i get out-- . >> rose: you don't have the same issues. >> as i see it. >> rose: i know. >> these are issues that affected working families all across this country. >> rose: so you are appealing

essentially to a same large group of people who have the same economic issues, the same issues about health care, the same issues about education. >> yes. >> rose: who have the same issues about losing their pengs. >> yeah. >> rose: all of those things. >> that's right, about jobs, about opportunities, about retirement, you bet. that is the heart of america. >> rose: okay but let me ask you this then, you said, i think, that everybody in the republican party was talking about, and the democratic party who was of consideration for president was saying, you know, i would love to run against our unhinged knit wit. >> uh-huh. >> rose: that is going to be the nominee of the republican party because they thought that they could easily beat him. >> uh-huh. >> rose: why didn't hillary clinton? >> charlie, come on. >> rose: are you a politician. >> you need a pundit. >> rose: no, i don't neat a pundit. you cannot be where you are without understanding both the economic and the politics of it. >> look, i know what i fight

for. >> rose: okay, but i want you to be-- you have said it was like watching a trainwreck in slow motion. >> it was. it was. it was. >> rose: what was it it you were seeing. >> that the democrats just didn't get out there and talk about what was wrong. the too much they said happy days, look, stock market is up, gdp is up, unemployment is down. all of which are good, good numbers. but the problem is, those numbers have giant blind spots in them today. they hide the lived experience of much of america. >> rose: so was it necessary then to have run against the incumbent, president obama. >> i think it was necessary to touch the lived sparyns of most of america. >> rose: would you be in favor of taking a lot more out of the defense budget. >> i would be in favor of making a lot of changes.

look, the defense bunk right now hasn't been audited. how can it be that we audit on the other side of the ledger and we don't audit on the side of the defense budget. that's a lot of money we spend. >> rose: when you look at this book, the fight is our fight, and think about your other book which was called a fighting chance, one of your other books, these are arguments you've been making. it's not like you show went out in a log cabin somewhere and basically thought and thought about what was right about america and what was wrong about america. this has been a central theme of your political life. >> it's been a central theme of my work for 35 years, that's what i have been working on. and my personal life. look, charlie, this is my life. let me put it this way. i open the book with this point, i was telling you this story a little bit go about my mom was a stay at home my, my three older brothers were all off in the military. my mom when she got that minimum wage job, that made all the

difference in the world to my family. we kept our house, it saved our family. but here's the deal, it was a minimum wage job at a time when congress had said we got to think about minimum wage in terms of what supports a family. so a minimum wage job would support a family of three. and it meant my mom's minimum wage job at sears could make a mortgage payment. i will tell you something else. she had a 40 hour week job. not 30 hours-- if sears had a lot of business, she had 40 hours a week. and if sears had no business she still had 40 hours a week. you roll that forward to today's workers, the minimum wage is set where a momma working full time, 40 hours a week cannot support herself and a baby. she cannot afford a medium prized two bedroom apartment in any city in america. >> rose: you will want minimum

wage at. >> i will take all of the above. >> rose: but what do you recommend. >> i am in the fight for 15, no doubt about it. but here's the point. look at how congress looks at it. congress looked at it a generation ago saying what does it take to support a family. and remember, they set the minimum wage right, gdp kept going right on up. today there are so many folks in congress who hear from wal-mart about what the minimum wage will be. who hear from the big corporations about what the minimum wage will be. who ignore and plaster over the data that say raise the minimum wage. it's not going to have an impact on jobs. it is that-- they're not think being working families, they're thinking about the top ten percent. the profits that go to them. we can't continue to run the government like this, charlie. it matters to everybody. >> rose: you have to get power in order to change the government. >> yeah. >> rose: how are you going to do that? what is your prescription for the democratic party. >> look, that's why i ran for

the united states senate. >> rose: why didn't you run for president? why didn't you run for president, don't just. >> no. >> rose: why didn't you run for president, lots of people wanted you to run for president. >> because i had just-- i had just been elected to the senate. and i-- . >> rose: barack obama had just been elected to the senate. >> well, i thought i should learn my job. and i have learned my job. and there are places where i do make a difference. and it matters. i'm in this fight. i want to be in this fight. and going-- . >> rose: chuck schumer is giving you a kind of leadership position in the senate, has he not. >> he has. >> rose: so your voice is heard in the united states senate. >> yeah. >> rose: so what does the democratic party have to do because there is one thing that has happened is the women's march. all right? why are you looking at me? >> i'm smiling because this is where i draw the book, to the end is to talk about the women's march. >> rose: so what has happened and what is it its potential. >> so here's how i see what is going to happen when we write

the history of this time period. it's going to be dissh drn. >> rose: you mean from 2016 forward. >> wherever, right? this time period, yeah, donald trump's election is going to be a big deal. and occupy a lot of space. but the day after his inauguration is also going to be a big deal. because that's the day of the women's march. and that's the day when women at boston common and frensd of women and-- women in washington d.c., and north carolina and even around the world, change democracy. they said our voices will be heard. we will make sure that washington hears it. >> rose: so. >> i was going to say, and it matters. and let me tell you how i know it matters. we get in fights, and i get it. we're going to lose fights but look at what happened on health care. the republicans said 65 times or whatever it was, 60 plus times in the united states house of representatives, they voted to

repeal obamacare. donald trump said how many zillion times while he was running for president, on day one. we will repeal obamacare, right? senate is ready to go. day one came and went and they didn't repeal obamacare. >> rose: well, they said we're going to repeal and replace. >> no, no, no, charlie, they did not say that. i'm sorry, have i to stop you right there. what they started out with was repeal, repeal. >> rose: but they did come to repeal and replace. >> but why did they clang? they changed because of the voices. >> rose: you mean the democrats. >> because people across this i c, it was more than just democrats. people across this country protested. they went to townhalls, they made phone calls. >> rose: don't take this away until you show me what you are going to do. >> and even donald trump started saying repeal and replace. and then when they had to replace, they had to show what they had on the table. >> rose: and that's where. >> and that's where it it was-- they were going to take away health-care coverage for 24 million americans, they were going to raise the cost for many middle class families and do all of that, why?

to produce a tax break for a handful of millionares and billionaires. and americans across this country said no. now look, i get it. that at the end of the day the reason obamacare, trumpcare failed is because for some republicans, it was not brutal enough. but the key is the rest of the republicans did not follow them over that cliff. >> rose: and they like certain aspects of obamacare which they did not want to give up including. >> don't use that tired voice on me. these are good things. people-- . >> rose: it's not a tired voice, stop that. >> people said all across this country, they began to look at what it means to have health-care coverage. >> rose: exactly. >> and they said, in effect, health care is a basic human right. and we're going to stand up for health care. and it wasn't just-- the number of votes we had, that democrats had in the house and the senate was, did not increase.

what changed was democracy. and that started with the women's movement, i believe. i think it started with the women's march. >> rose: in the direct connection between women's march and what happened in the votes. >> absolutely. >> rose: in the house. >> yep. and that, that changes where we go next. that is why it's so important to talk to people about how to get in the fight. >> rose: has the democratic party turned left? >> i'm not sure left right makes as much sense. >> rose: explain it. where do you think the democratic party is going. is it a different democratic party than under mt obama. >> i think it is. >> rose: how is it different. >> i think it's a different democratic party because i think the energy of the democratic party right now is about getting out and fighting for working people. >> rose: is this different from the message of bernie sanders. >> i think bernie is a big part of that. i think bernie is very much a part of the energy of the democratic party right now. bernie has been out there on the front lines. and there's been others out on

the front lines. but i think the key is that we are-- we must be there to fight for people. >> rose: but also do you believe that you must resist in addition to fighting for people, in addition to moving for forward ideas, you must resist what donald trump is doing at every step. >> it depends what he is doing. >> rose: tell me what you have supported. mpaign that he was in favor oft glass steagall, breaking up the biggest financial institution, boring banking, checking retail statements we do investment banking differently. exactly right. he said he wanted to break those up. i have a bill that i have had for three years now with senator john mccain, with senator maria kantwell, can senator king. my view is, come on. president trump, you said you wanted to do this. i will round up some democrats. you round up some republicans. let's do it. >> rose: you want to restore

glass steagall. >> you bet i do. >> rose: donald trump is for that, are you for that. >> i'm for that, you bet, let's do it, in fact, gary cone, his koan economic advisor we were in a meeting a couple of weeks ago with the banking committee, closed door meeting. >> rose: yes. >> and everybody is talking about this i said i want to ask you about glass steagall and he said after a little back and forth, he said yeah, i could get behind that. so let's do it. >> rose: he's from goldman sachs. he's from goldman sachs. >> you bet. >> rose: so you can deal with goldman sachs. >> no, can i deal with glass steagall, come to the table over glass steagall and let's make it it happen. i mean a real glass steagall, not a fake one. you have to stitch up the e from nonprofits, i mean ite it is who the person is. it is where is there intelligence and what is it that they want to do to change america.

>> charlie, of course it is who cessarily, not necessarily paipting them with a broad brush from wall street, therefore they have no humanitarian instincts. >> i will make two points. one is, it matters where you spent your time. it matters who you have seen and what you have done. let me make a different point. let me make a slightly different point about a problem with having a whole bunch of goldman sachs or a whole bunch of city bank c.e.o.s running our economy. when the then, the next c.e.o. of city bank or of goldman sachs makes a call to the secretary of the treasury, do you think they take it? i bet they take it, do you think they listen carefully. >> rose: i do. >> on every single point that comes up, do you think they take a call from my brother david back in norman, oklahoma. >> no. >> rose: i'm-- no, but they wouldn't take a call from my cousin either. >> but that's part of the point. the question is, what information do you get, what

understanding do you have. >> rose: they take a call from the head of. >> of what, they take a call from the head of the labor union. >> yes, they would. >> rose. >> i think i want a couple of labor union guys in here to talk about that. >> rose: we've seen the president talking to labor union guys. >> i'm sorry. did you watch the negotiations over the trade deal with tpp. >> rose: i did. did you see who was opposed to it? >> did you see how actively involved. >> rose: indeed, but they can be opposed on one issue and supportive on another. >> the labor unions were not actively considered in large parts of the negotiations. in fact-- . >> rose: wait, wait. >> if we are are going to do this on tpp because this really matters. d the answer is, about 85% of. them came from, they were either c.e.o.s of major kormingses or they were lobbyists for those corporations, orthos industries.

and they were the ones out doing-- . >> rose: certainly had the academics in there. >> no. my point is it was 85%. people who have the point of view and were there to represent the industry. >> rose: we are not talking about who would take who's phone calls. and i said leaders of labor unions could have their phone calls be taken. >> you said in effect they had as much swing. >> rose: i didn't say as much swing, i don't think. >> how much swing did they have. that is my question, 85%, 15% was left over for the environmentalists, the labor unions, for the-- . >> rose: i was making the point, in the same way gary cohen was talking to you, a united states senator and he from the trump administration, economic advisor in the white house, i mean it seems the issue here is that the people who matter are a, not listening to as many voices as they should. >> that was my point. >> rose: my point too. >> okay. >> rose: but clearly, but clearly they're not talking. they're shouting past each other. that's happening in american public life, is it not?

>> it is. but the point-- . >> rose: and then labeling each other, then labeling each other. >> but the point is that personnel is policy. and part of personnel is what experiences you have, part is who you know, and part, let me just offer it, is do you have some demonstrated independence to be able to separate yourself from the people who paid your check for the last 30 years. >> rose: i totally believe that's important. >> so my only point-- . >> rose: most agree that is important. >> and my only point is we got to have people who have the keys to our economy. who really are driving the bus on the economy. we got to have some people who have a range of experiences and who have some demonstrated independence. that doesn't mean they've never been to waws us waws. and it doesn't mean there aren't wall street guys who can come in and do that. it's not about labeling. but it is about saying personnel matters. and the experience of the people

who get to help run our economy matters a whole bunch. >> rose: i think that's fundamental. >> well, i think it's fundamental if it weren't for the fact that donald trump has put together a big team of billionaires and bankers who don't have much demonstrated experience of ever having worked in public interest. or some other way that says they can separate, they want to spray,-- separate and they will separate. look, does that mean i won't try to work with gary cohen, you betted i will. >> rose: you had a kfertionz with him. >> you bet. and if he will step up on glass steagall. >> rose: if he will step up and agree with you. >> no, no, i'm there, donald trump is the one who said he is in favor of glass steagall. i'm ready, i've written the bill, i'm ready to go with them. >> rose: i promise i would only take 15 or 20 minutes and it is now 35 minutes. >> are we having fun though. >> rose: yes, we are. >> good. >> rose: do we always? >> yes. >> rose: with respect to the democratic party, and respect to

its election that just took place, one of the things you don't talk about here is when hillary clinton came to talk to you, did she talk to you about running on the ticket as vice president. >> yeah. >> rose: she did. >> yeah. >> rose: were you open to that? >> she didn't make the offer. >> rose: but you can express interest or not, you can say-- you can say look, i would like to help you in anyway i can, if you think i can help you by running as your running mate, i am here for you, did you say that 1234 something like that, probably. >> what i said is here's what i think is important. and i said that before the vice presidential thing was on the table. and i said it after the vice presidential thing was off the table. here are the issues i really, really hope will you talk about. and here are the things i really hope you will do if you get elected. >> rose: that is what you said on the podium with her. >> i yeah. >> rose: same thing. >> i say the same thing pretty much in private that i say in

public. >> rose: two quick questions. is anyone in the democrats have now connected this in some instances that i have read about in tax reform, are they going to be able to in some way get donald trump to release his income tax? >> well, i don't know. here's what worries me, charlie. >> rose: about? >> about donald trump and his taxes. he's already admitted and said oh, i don't pay taxes t makes me smart. and he got over what was probably insurmountable hump for mitt romney, right, on taxes. sos that he's not what is hiding in his taxes. >> rose: what's hiding in his taxes. >> exactly. and he's already gotten over the getting elected without doing his taxes. so what bothers me can what is in his taxes. where has he gor rowed money

because that will show up in your taxes, who do you owe money to. and that's a scary thing. because that's a question about who has leverage over you. >> rose: and there are rumors and suggestions that maybe it was some russian oligarch. >> yeah. about where did the money-- where does your money come from, where are you tied up. where are you exposed? because those maybe things that could affect the decisions that he makes as president of the united states. it is like the ultimate in concern over our conflict of interest. are you putting the interest of the american people first. or are you putting the interest of protect iting your own fanny first. and what is he hiding in his taxes. >> rose: what is your answer to that. >> i can't see his taxes. u know, i think there needs to be an investigation between,

about donald trump and his ties, his campaign's ties to the russians. >> rose: there are two investigations. >> i mean, an investigation with a special prosecutor, and an independent commission. and the reason for that is just think about the facts we know. the intelligence community has made clear that the russians hacked into american systems in order to influence the outcome of the election. the fbi has an active and ongoing investigation into the relationship between trump, trump's campaign and the russians. and major figures in the trump kal maybe-- campaign had to resign in disgrace because of the connections with the russians, that is enough for an investigation. and again, i really want to be on this one, nonpartisan, apolitical. whether you are a republican or a dem kr59 or a libertarian or a independent, whatever you are,

you should get in about getting to the bottom of whether or not the russians have finning a eled the most central part of our democracy, the electoral system. we need an independent investigation. we need it now. and we need to get to the bottom of it. >> rose: the book is called the fight is our fight, the battle to save america's middle class. elizabeth warren, best selling author of a fighting chance, and democratic senator from massachusetts. thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: back in a moment, stay with us. the armenian genocide which occurred from 1915 fll 1923 claimed the lives of over 1.5 million people. how many countries have recognized the event including the united states and turkey have not, a new film from director terry george is one of the first feature fims, one of the first feature films to depict the genocide. here is the trailer for the promise. >> .

>> guess what. >> thank you. >> the world is at your feet, do us proud. >> you're going to become a doctor. >> yes. >> krition tofer miers. >> a toast to old friends and new. >> bravo. >> a fine woman. >> you make me feel i've come home. >> she's very fofned you, it's obvious. >> it's very dangerous for armenians right now. i want to get you out of here.

>> if it's not safe for me then it's not safe for any of my people. >> what is the associated press reporting on the war. >> there is no warrior here. >> i have to get us out of here, there is no time left. >> i was told the drk dsh. >> how can i help? >> do you love him? >> how can i keep going. >> when i-- you trust no one.

>> chris? >> we will build a future together. >> rose: joining me now is the film writer and director terry grornlg, as well as three of its stars, christian bale, oscar isaac and lang angela sar avian, let me begin with you, this is ace historical, tell us what happenednd why there is so much controversy, you know, and why there has not been a film. >> well, the background to the genocide itself is that when the first world war broke out, the turkish government at that time, allly the ottoman empire government there was no turkey, they made a decision to basically to eliminate the armenian population. and they used the cover of the war between the turks and the russians and the northern board

tore say that the armenians had ridden up and that he had had to moved out of that war zone. what in fact happened was the bulk of the population, from iran, the ottoman empire were basically hearded into the desert and walked to death or massacred in rivers, fields, cliffs, drowned at sea. and so this was-- it wasn't the first genocide of the 20th century but a key moment in these catastrophes in that the word itself, genocide came from this event. >> rose: why has the united states refuse to clearly call it a genocide. >> well, the fact that it hasn't been covered by film and the reason why the united states hasn't called it a genocide are merged together in that turkey has enormous influence, strategic influence both during the cold war and now and the

turkish government set about denying the event and suppressing the event itself in terms of film making and reporting. and in fact, twice attempts were-- attempts were made to make a film about a particular ft leaned on both the statekish department and studios and had it squashed. so it's been one of the great unknown catastrophes of the 20th century. >> rose: and still being fought over. >> yeah, it's still-- president obama, before he was elected promised to recognize the genocide and then reneged on that promise. >> rose: did he go so far as to say he will study it it or something like that? >> well, his last comment was my opinion of the event hasn't changed. but the g-word could not be spoken. and ambassador par who is a friend was unable to say the g word either even though she had written a book called the problem from hell and won a pulitzer prize, highlighting the

armenian genocide at the beginning of the american government's reaction to these events. so it is a very emotive topic and now with president erdogan. >> rose: the authority he has. >> increased this week, indeed, and i don't see a change in turkey a attitude to it or even president trump's attitude. >> rose: angela, this is also a love story too. >> yes, yes. >> rose: i mean tell me about that. >> well-- . >> rose: because it involved both of your costars. >> well, i play marral, who is a traditional armenian woman in a small village where mi kail's comes from. and i believe that there are two different kinds of love in this love story. and in the one here, i believe marral is very much in love with mick ail but in the case of mick hail, he marries her for

practical reasons. and well, is betrothed to her for practical reasons and goes off to become a medical student to pursue his dreams, to bring back that knowledge to the small village where they live. and so i was lucky enough to play this armenian traditional woman, being armenian myself, both my mother and my grandmother, fine examples of what that is. and this film, this story was very, very personal for me because i have heard the story from my ancestors brought down to my grandparents who then told us about how they survived. and so it was very special to be a part of the film. >> rose: who is your character, christian? >> i play a character called crist mazu a member of the associated press, so he is there to cover the events. is he there fuelly more lead by his love for a different armenian character in the film who wants to return to her

roots. he's a more kind of des lawsuit character, very acerbic, quite arabic and proud but irritatingly correct about a number of things. and finds himself ceasing to be an observer and starting to be a participant in the events of the-- story. >> rose: what is happening. >> because he sees it up close. because he sees these massacres that, like angela is talking about, you know, sees the immediate impact of it, the brutality of it. that the information is being suppressed. it was illegal to take photo documentation and get that out of the country. most of it that exists is actually by german soldier called arman wegger in and he has a change in spirit. there are two lines in the story by make hail oscar's character who says to my character trk must be so nice, so convenient to be able to come and visit and witness people's pain and report on it and then return to the comfort of your own home, it's very valid point.

and then chris' response is, yes, but without the press, nobody would know anything about the armenian genocide. >> rose: but does he then have deeper involvement? >> he does, yes, yes, he actually becomes involved and participates in trying to save these people on the armenian's. >> rose: oscar has been here a number of times before. what do you hope people take away from this il-- fill snm. >> well, i hope people recognize not only the atrocity of what happened and that it helps shed light on that. but also that they make the par a legals to what is happening today. in the same parts of the world. the same types av tack on this country on the press. and on the idea of refugees, that there is compassion, that it elicits empathy. particularly with this story, you know, as the years go by it becomes quite abstract, the number 1.5 million armenians killed. it is easy to kind of see it as a statistic. hopefully the movie helps

humanize these events and gets closer to eliciting that empathy and be able to see it is the same thing going on now. i remember we were shooting scenes of us jumping in the water to save orphans that were fleeing as refugees from syria, from the desert, at the same time that it reports were happening of all of these refugees drowning in the water about this man trying to save his family that all drowned. so it was very impactful to know that that same thing was happening again. also, the fact that people can go and know that 100 percent of the proceeds of the film will go to charity. to humanitarian charities. i think that is unprecedented. >> have i never heard of that. >> i haven't either. >> it goes to the enough project, century run by john prender gast to amnesty international, human rights watch, all charities involved with holding people accountable for genocidal activity for human right as beuses and for your

refugee crisis. >> rose: was john in anyway involved in this? >> no, no, he wasn't. but with a number of consultants and supporters, and now he's active in helps ing us promote, keep the promise drive which is-- so. >> this is the story that families pass on from generation to generation. >> yeah. >> just like my family did, there are several stories. it's interesting. if you see the film, the orphans in the movie are really may great great grandparents that survived. and the funny through line that kind of brings everything full circle is my great, great grandparents left, i guess, i would call old armenia because they were old villages that were destroyed with old monuments of churches that now kurds live in, basically they're the very things that have existed before christ or during christ and now they're the walls of hopes of other people.

and they left old armenia and wt to syria to aleppo for rev geuj and today people from syria leave and go to other countries for that same thing, they could go to spain or other places. and it just t just seems so pertinent for that reason, that a hundred years later the same thing seems to unfortunately happen. >> how much did you know, christian about. >> i knew almost nothing, it is embarrassing to say, i knew almost nothing t is stunning. i found that many people know almost nothing it is like the great unknown genocide. thanked is just horrendous. 1.5 million people died and i didn't know anything about that. and you have to think that the lack of quenszs to-- consequences to this genocide may well have provoked the other genocides we have had to witness in the century since. >> rose: right. >> it is that infamous stiement by adolf hitler when he was marshaling his generals to go into poland and ordering them to show no mercy. he said who after all remembers the armenians. and that was reported by admiral

canaries who subsequently was executed for trying to assassinate hitler. so the lack of knowledge about the armenian genocide became a rallying call by hitler to his generals. >> and it also just was started the promise foundation for human rights at ucla, isn't it, which sole point is to educate people about genocide, not just armenian but all genocides and human right as beuses and to be a resource of education. and very much you wanted this film to be seen by young people and educate them. >> like hotel rwanda i was determined it would be pg-13. because ultimately, it is a love story where we take the audience through these events and i want it to be access isable to teenagers and also to peement who might 23e8 that an r rated film about a genocide is something that beyond which they want to see. the horror in it is psychological and suggested as much by our great actors as anything on the screen. >> rose: what do you mean by

how is it psychological. >> well, when you-- when oscar's character in particular encounters the aftermath of a slaughter, i play the horror on his face and on his reaction rather than show any of the goriness. and the sutionz all the time is it's always better, i feel, that the odd yengs imagines what took place before hand than to attempt to re-create an event that you can't possibly show the true horror of it on screen. >> rose: what is the definition of a genocide? >> it's an attempt by a group, a government or a group to exterminate either a nation, a describe, a religious sect or organization. and it, a system attic attempt by that.

>> how many have there been. >> the ones i know, there was one in the movie committed by the germans which was the first genocide of the 20 the century. there was the armenians. aughter of ukrainians duringe stalin's war. cam bodia, swes swes, rwanda and currently guatemala, the amal clooney and jeffrey roberts are prosecuting or pushing that situation of theia glidi. >> kre questions in northern iraq yzidi. >> are they christians twns is a separate sect but the christians were also percent cuted but that particular incident of the yzidi being trapped on mount sanjar and systemic slaughter by isis, amal clooney and the organize around her want that recognized so that-- and the purpose of this is beyonds just recognize-- it is to identify the perpetrators and have them pursued in the same way that mill os vich and mall add itch

were prosecuted for genocide. >> actually the word was established by a laura feal lampkin to describe what happened to the armenians and subsequently what happened to, in the holocaust. so the whole denial, the very word that was con conducted is denied by the turks which is kind of ironic. >> there is denial, don't you think that is-- it is a bit like the debate about climate change here if the u.s., you know. people do a smoke screen to pretend there is a debate, the facts are in, there is a climate change, it is is the similar case with the armenian genocide. >> rose: lets of people make that argument, especially now, al gore among others make that point. but this is your kind of story. >> well, my kind of story is when ordinary people with their ordinary-- with their weaknesses are confronted by monumental events and catastrophe and find the inner strength to survive and carry others with them and triumph over evil that is what i always look for, whether it is

gerree conlan in the name of the father or-- hotel rwanda or mickhail andan and chris in thisment i like the noarks of 0erd people confronting these events and finding their inner strength. and that's, for me that's the greatest form of stoverree telling to get a message out. >> rose: do you choose this role because are you being offered, i would assume, because of the story, because the script, because of the other actors, because-- what. >> way, there was a lot of reasons. but i think really it is is that scene that he mentioned about coming upon a whole village, his family, his betrothed, everyone slaughtered by the side of the river. i couldn't read that without et going quite emotional about it. every time i tried to consider other things or-- that was undeniable, that scene. so i think above everything else it was that scene that made me say i want to understand this or at least shed some light on this or try to experience a little

bit of that. >> rose: thank you for coming, great to see you, thank you. christian, it's always good to see you, thank you, thank you, terry, much success. the film is called the promise it opens in theaters on friday, april 21s, that's friday, april 21s. thank you for joining us. see you next time. >> for more about this program and earlepisodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlie rose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

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