>> welcome to the program. the program is "charlie rose: the week." charlie's away. i'm jeff glor. just ahead, the senate and the showdown over health care. the upset at uber. and the guitar-driven ballads of singer/songwriter jason isabelle ♪ it's knowing this can't go on forever ♪ likely one of us will have to spend some days alone ♪ maybe we'll get 40 years together but one day i'll be gone ♪ one day you'll be gone. >> we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: and so you began how was it luck or something else? what's the object lesson here? >> follow the money. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. >> glor: this was the week senate republicans released their answer to obamacare. the king of saudi arabia named a new successor, and golfer briewks cepkerr won the u.s. open at erins hill, his first major. >major. >> rose: another attack shakes london. >> this was an attack on muslims, and like all terrorism, in whatever form, it shares the same fundamental goal. >> u.s. navy recovered the bodies of seven sailors missing since an american destroyer and a merchant ship collided off the

coast of japan. >> for the first time, the u.s. military shot down a syrian air force jet. >> federal prosecutors have charged a canadian man in the stabbing of an airport police officer. >> otowarmbier has passed away. >> uber, the founder, travis kalanick, stepping down as the company's c.e.o. >> royal shake-up in saudi arabia. king salman what promoted his 31-year-old son to. >> senators are working on a health care plan right now that no one else has seen and they want to force a vote on it before july 4. >> so if you're going to blow your fingers off with fireworks, do it on the 3rd. >> that guy spotted the rock on the road and ran out in traffic to get that selfie right there. >> all we do is win, win, win ♪ all we do is win, win, win

>> democrats are now 0 for 4 on special elections this year. >> when is there not an election? >> sean spicer may be out as press secretary. ♪ you're gonna miss me when i'm gone." sean, i have so many questions. if you go, who will not answer them? ♪ you're gonna miss me when i'm gone ♪ when i'm gone >> glor: we begin this week with health care. on thursday, after a month of closed door negotiations among a hand full of republicans, the senate leadership released a draft of their version of repeal and replace. majority leader mitch mcconnell is pushing for a vote next week. joining me from washington is kelsey snell from woech. and ezra klein, editor in chief of vox. the bill has had more than a day to soak in on the hill. how is it sitting? >> well, at this point, the big

question is can mitch mcconnell get to 50 votes? that's how many he needs to get this to pass. they're using superb budget rules so they need a bare majority of 51 votes to pass. they can call in back-up from mike pence to vote one vote. they have 52 republicans in want senate and they can only lose two. right now we are looking at about four conservatives who have said they don't support the bill nonetheless current form but they left open a lot of wiggle room so they could potentially get themselves to yes with a few concession. the real question at this point is what will happen with moderates, like senator susan collins of main, and lisa murkowski of alaska, who have not yet committed one way or another. >> ezra, the four she mentioned, and heller and flake, mitch mcconnell has to do this dance with everyone. >> he does have to do this dance with everyone. and the question is what are different people's policy bottom lines. it's important to step back and look at the bill in context.

you have the moderates saying they should do more to protect medicate caid. this bill actually over time has deeper medicaid cuts than the house bill. the house bill over time put medicaid on a growth rate on how much medical costs grow. it's actually a much deeper cut to medicaid, but the cuts don't begin for longer. what you're getting is more plausible political deniability and less policy protection. why, if you said you want to protect medicaid that would be your bargain, i don't exactly know. on the other hand, you have the conservatives is what they wanted was the architecture of affordable care act gone-- the regulations, the entitlements, the guarantees, the way it interacts with the medical system. what is interesting about the way the bill works it retains most of the architecture from the affordable care panth it

ends up in a little bit of a place where liberals don't like it because it doesn't get what the affordable care act gets done, done. and the conservatives are not quite there, the building of the affordable care arct platform on which it stood, is still around, and in the future the democrats could come back and refill it with money. in theory, there is still a lot of policy disagreement here. but if republicans just want to pass something, well, this is something. ♪ ♪ >> glor: it was a rocky road for the ride-sharing unit uber this week. cofounder and c.e.o. travis kalanick was forced to step down after a revolt by the company's board of directors. so what's behind this board room drama and what's next for ride sharing? i spoke to max chafkin of bloomberg "businessweek," derek thompson of "the atlantic" and mike isaac of the "new york times." >> this was pretty stunning in

the sense travis kalanick, the c.e.o., had full control of the company in almost every way. he was c.e.o. he had voting control. and he had board control. so he had to be the one to decide to step away, and it's something that was pretty much unthinkable a few months ago. >> glor: derek it will be led by someone, least for now, other than travis kalanick. but travis kalanick was and is uber. >> exactly right. travis is as responsible for the bottom line, rest new, as the culture. in many ways the revenue came out of culture, this incredible relentless focus on improving the product, making sure it was as good as possible, growing, growing, growing, and allowing some of the top reformers in the country get away with that with what we now know was heinous behavior. >> glor: the company is still losing money. >> they have big battles in many sphaeps they have been pouring money from venture capitalists for years and years subsidizing every ride we take while pushing

their drivers to accept less and less money, and the fact they're still not making money is trouble. >> glor: the whole tipping thing has been a huge point of discussion. >> the tipping thing is actuallyally funny because for years, travis kalanick actually was the sort of weird stopping point on driver tipping. i had talked to people inside the company who said they'd essentially built the mechanism already, but for some sort of philosophical reason travis thought it added more friction into it. but it was kind of indicative of how uber really treated their drivers for years now. they sort of saw them as a dispensable-- disposable labor force that they can churn through quickly and always sort of find more supply of new people by just spending more marketing dollars to get more drivers. i think at this point they realized there's a finite number of people who are willing to work for this wage, and so we need to actually treat our drivers a little bit better and maybe we'll have better

retention over the long run. i think they're starting to figure that out now. drivers are really mad. they built up a lot of bad will over the years. i imagine it will take a long time for them to actually believe some of uber's overtures now. >> glor: in the meantime, max, they have all this-- the folks who are now running the company have to get up to speed-- no pun intended >> and there are, like, a dozen important vacancys. the entire senior management team has basically turned over, over the past, i don't know, six months or so. and obviously, most importantly, a c.e.o. who will be willing to step into this, you know, arguably toxic environment with this very aggressive, strong-minded former chief executive and cofounder, you know, kind of hovering over them. it's hard to imagine who is going to be willing to take on that challenge. i'm sure they'll find somebody but i don't think it will be as easy as maybe some people imagine. >> glor: i don't know that this has been discuss aid lot, but steve jobs was force out at apexpel then triumphantly

returned. travis kalanick has a lot to deal with right now, but it's not like you're ripping all the travis kalanick roots out of uber right away. >> you have an entire company that is made in one man's image, and on the one hand, he was instrumental in growing out this revolution in getting around, a $70 billion company, most valuable private company in the world. but at the same time, because the company seems to so clearly have been made his image, it allowed some of the dark side of travis kalanick to be represented throughout the company in ways that were hard to take out. and i think that was part calculus here-- in order to extract the toxicity of the workplace, you sort of of have to cut the head off the snake. >> glor: jack ma is the founder and executive chairman

of alley bawb athe giant internet marketplace. now he is focused on harnessing america's small business to meet the demands of china's exploding middle class, the largest in the world. charlie interviewed him this week. >> the world changes so fast. i worry a lot, the artificial intelligence may take a lot of jobs away. and i worry about if we do not move. fast enough, a lot of-- if we do not innovate enough, if we do not spend enough time giving simple, easy product application, technology, for small business, most of small business cannot survive in the next 10 years. if the small business cannot survive, we cannot survive. >> rose: what does small business need to survive? >> today, i would say next 10, 20 years, the small business, no matter where you are, if you do not try to globalize your

business through internet, you may not have a business opportunity. it's not like a-- oh,, you know, i can-- i do local, local business in the future is going to be more and more competitive. think about it. how can you sell products across the board. your products, your chocolate, people in your village already know about it. but the people in china, they love these things. think about how can you sell your products across the world. >> rose: i mean, you gave a speech in which you talked about the warning for decades of pain unless you recognize the coming advent of artificial intelligence, robots, the whole range of things that could challenge how you had been doing business in the past. >> yup. >> rose: you also have mention retirement. >> yeah. >> rose: jack mah at what,

50-something. thinking about retirement. >> yes, i have been preparing -- >> you said you have been preparing since you were 40, thinking about retirement. >> when i left university i was 30 years old. and my president of my university said, "jack, one day you want to come back, any time, you are welcome." i said, "president i will not come back in 10 years. of the so i thought when i'm 40, i can go back to teach. but when i'm 40, oh, my god, life was so tough, so tough. my company almost in big trouble. so i said i should not leave. and i said when i'm 45 i should retire. when i'm 45 i cannot stop it. and then i start to prepare, saying-- people say, "jack, you are the next bill gates." i said, "i cannot compete with bill gates but i can compete with the bill gates who can

retire earlier." ( laughter ) >> glor: in the 1870s, the osage tribe was driven off its land in kansas to northeastern oklahoma. it was later discovered the new reservation was sitting on some of the largest oil deposits in the united states. the osage quickly became the richest people per capita in the world and also became targets for murder. david grann 's new book. >> i heard about the story from an historian, and i made a trip out to osage territory in northeast oklahoma when i first heard about it, and i went to the osage museum. and on the wall was this large panoramic photograph. it was taken in 1924.

it showed members of the try, along with-- of the tribe along with white settlers but a portion of the photograph was missing and i asked the museum director what happened to the missing portion of the photograph and she said it contained a figure so flightening she decided to remove it. she pointed to the panel and said the devil was standing right there. the book grew out of finding who the figure was and led me to one of the most sinister crimes in u.s. history. it was the systematic targeting of osage one by one for their oil money. >> rose: to become one of the biggest business in the world. >> the chief said we should move to what was indian territory then. it would later become oklahoma. and he said we should move there because the land is rocky, it is infertile, and the white man considers it worthless and my

people will finally be happy in this land. so the osage migrated to this territory. they purchased it. they migrated there-- it was about the size of delaware-- and this seemingly, was sitting on the largest deposits of oil and they became the wealthiest people per capita in the world. >> rose: how many were there >> there were only 2,000. they received what would be worth today $400 million. they lived in terra cotta mansions. they had servants, many of whom were white. all this belied long-standing racial stereotypes. it was set at the time where one american might own a car, each osage owned 11 of them. >> rose: and then what happened? >> and then they began to be targeted? >> rose: who was behind it. >> what made the crimes so deeply sinister was the only way to get the money was through

inheritance so it involved people marrying into families, white settlers, marrying into families, pretending to love these people, sometimes even having children with them, while systematically plotting to kill them. by 1923, there were officially more than two dozen osage murders, the unofficial death toll was actually much higher. and it was then the osage tribal council issued a resolution pleading for federal authorities to step in and the case of taken up by an obscure grant of the justice department, the bureau of investigation. we know it today, later renamed the federal bureau of investigation, or the f.b.i. >> rose: and what happened to the money? >> sadly, millions and millions of dollars were swindled during these crimes, during this criminal conspiracy. and a lot of the oil gradually was depleted. and so some of the osage still receive oil money today, but it's not the millions that they

once did. >> rose: the director oliver stone's latest sprct now running on showtime. the putin interviews a distillation of roughly 20 hours of wide-ranging conversations between the russian president and the director. >> it was 20 hours with them over two years, four different visits. and it's-- it was a massive amount of material to org. it ended up being four hours because i-- basically, i felt that was a natural pattern. it started in about 2000, when he becomes president. and there's quite a thick history in there, where you pick up in 2000 with u.s. relations, and it works its way forward up until the 2007 munich speech, and then it ends up, of course,

with ukraine and syria. and post, that a new crisis develops with the election. so one thing after another terminating right now, in this period-- there will be another cries, i'm sure, but write now it's as pretty bleak as it's ever been in terms of temperature. >> rose: did you see yourself as a diswrrlist, as an ally, or as someone once said, a fool? how did you see your role there? >> well, he knows i'm a m a movie director. and i approached him as such. he knew some of my work as a filmmaker. and we asked for a longer interview. it started like that. we never knew how defined it would be. it was sort of a loosey-goosy arrangement. if he liked it and wanted to continue we would continue. >> rose: there has been some criminal, as you know, "criticism, asun, not changing enough, and you must have a point of view on that because

you chose the technique you thought would be most effective in accomplishing what your goals were. >> you catch more flies with hone than with vinegar. when you see somebody for 20 hours in front of a camera, as you well know, it's hard to-- you do see character. you get the sense of the person. and asking him the questions i did over that period of time, you have to realize i get-- i get a very strong view of him, but i'm listening, i'm watching. i wasn't arguing the issues with him. the issues-- he knows his way, and the americans have their viewpoint. i don't want to get in between that. >> rose: you know, he has said the worst thing that he experienced, he thought the worst thing in the 20th century for russia was what happened with the fall of the russian empire. >> i know the statement. he said that was one of the worst things in the 20th century. >> rose: fair enough. one of the worst things. that's been used against him,

too. >> i'm not using it against him, oliver. i'm trying to ask you, how did it affect his objective now that he has the power he has. does he want to speak two the 23 million people no longer in russia because they went other places that now surround russia. >> no, no. it's a tragedy the way it happened. it could have been better handled. those years are past. i never sensed any desire for a greater empire at all. he explains it very lucidly to me on the crimea situation. we spent some time on that, to make sure that audiences understood the way he sees that. >> rose: there is also this-- its meddling in the u.s. election. what does he say? >> you saw it. >> rose: yeah. >> i pressed him on it. he denies it completely. >> rose: end of story. >> in the film, yeah. he denies-- they do not meddle,

he says, in domestic policies of other countries. ♪ ♪ ♪ i couldn't be happy in the city at night can't see the stars for the neon lights ♪ sidewalk's dirty and the river's worse ♪ underground trains all run in reverse. ♪ nobody here can dance like me everybody is clapping on the one and the three ♪ am i the last of my kind? am i the last of my kind ♪ >> glor: jason isabelle has been called the new king of americana music. >> when i got sober i started seeing people very differently. i started lobbying around and seeing everybody as connected in a lot of ways, and before that i

thought i'm different from everybody else so i need to drink a lot to bring myself down to their level. and then i realized, oh, no, no, no, we're all in the same boat. you're just not paddling. >> rose: you're saying that to yourself. >> yes, yes, most certainly. and once i started paddling, i thought now we're all working together. >> rose: is this diminishing value, an album? >> not creatively, no. commercially, yeah, yeah, yeah. not that version, the vinyl lp, those are going up. but the album as an idea i think is diminishing in value commercially. you know, we find ways. we find ways around those things. i'll tell you one thing that a lot of people might not realize, the checks that the streaming services send out to the record labels look very different from the ones that they sends out to the ayersts. and i didn't know this nil started my own record label, and one week i got a check as jason

isabelle, owner of southeastern records and i got a check as jason isbell singer/songwriter. one was a very big check and one was a very small check. it led me to big old companies screwing over little songwriters like me. >> rose: when do you write? >> if i have my druthers i get up and have some coffee and write at the house. i write in every situation -- >> where it comes. >> yeah, on the road a lot, on the bus. >> rose: people who tell me they have this reputation tell me they're inspired by a muse or inspired by something beyond them to write. 's sit taig table looking at at blank sheet of paper." >> i have heard it said that the muse likes to find you working, you know. and i really like what chuck close said, "inspiration is for amateurs. the rest of us just show up and get to work."

>> here's what's new for your weekend. the annual glaston berry festival runs all weekend in england. the red sox will be retiring david ortiz's number saturday at fenway park. >> it looks like he's fighting back tears, joe. >> and p.g. records is releasing a deluxe edition of prince's "purple rain." and here's a look at the week ahead. sunday is the end of ramadan and the festival o of ede. monday is the 20th anniversary of the publication of the first harry potter book. the swimming champions in indiana. the henry regatta in henley on

thames england. thursday is the first day of meetings between president trump and south korea's president at the white house. friday is the start montrow jazz foaft val in switzerland. saturday is the day canada celebrates its serks squitennial. gl. >> glor: that is "charlie rose: the week" for this week. from all of us here, thanks for watching. i'm jeff glor. we'll see you next time. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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