>> rose: welcome to the program. tonight we begin with president trump's most recent response to the aftermath of charlottesville in a press conference at trump tower. we talked to joshua green, author of "devil's bargain: steve bannon, donald trump, and the storming of the presidency." >> there's one thing we know about trump that was vividly on display after charlottesville is that he is loathe to apologize for or condemn any of his supporters, and that's especially problematic in a case like this one where those supporters are racist. >> rose: and we continue with tennis and a look at the upcoming u.s. open with katrina adams, chairman and c.e.o. of the u.s. tennis association. >> it's great to be in the stadium and to fill the energy and excitement that comes out of there and watching some of the top players, but in the first ten days we have 16 other match

courts going on, and your top players are also going to be out there, and to be able to walk around and feel the excitement and the energy from all the players and watching the coaches and being as close as we are, i really call the u.s. open as a true experience, a true fan experience. so many things are going on entertainmentwise, social media outlets, et cetera. that's what, when we have people coming out, the majority of our people are actually buying grounds passes. >> rose: we conclude with the netflix comedy "unbreakable kimmy schmidt." we talk with ellie kemper, tituss burgess and carol kane. >> i think she was born with this nature to persevere. she has seen the worst of human behavior so i thnk nothing can shock her. instead of giving up hope in her fellow man, it only reinforced

it. >> rose: charlottesville, tennis and the "unbreakable kimmy schmidt," when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: president trump faces increased criticism for his failure to condemn neo-nazi and white supremacist groups in the wake of this weekend's violence in charlottesville, west virginia. here's the president's initial reaction saturday.

>> we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. >> rose: monday, the president did attack racists, white supremacists and neo-nazis. >> racism is evil and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs including the k.k.k., neo-nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as america. >> rose: finally today in an angry confrontation with reporters the president went back to his point that there was blame for violence on both sides. >> when you say the alt-right, define it for me. let's go. >> as the same groups -- >> rose: what about the alt-left that came charging at as you say the alt right, do

they have any semblance of guilt? what about this, what about the fact that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? do they have any problem? i think they do. as far as i'm concerned, that was a horrible, horrible day -- bait way the manet. i'm not finished. i'm not finished, fake news -- that was a horrible day -- ( questioning ) >> i watched those more closely than you people watched it, and you had a group on one side that was bad and a group on the other side that was also very violent and nobody wants to say that but i'll say it right now. you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit, and they were very, very violent. ( questioning ) >> go ahead. do you think what you call

the alt-left is the same as neo-nazis? >> those people -- all of those people -- excuse me. i've condemned neo-nazis, i've condemned many different groups, but not all those people were neo-nazis, believe me. not all those people were white supremacists by any stretch. those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of robert e. lee. and you take a look at some of the groups and see and you would know it if you're honest reporters which in many cases you're not, but many of those people were there to protest the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. this week it's robert e. lee. i notice stonewall jackson is coming down. i wonder, is it george washington next week and thomas jefferson the week after? you really have to ask yourself where does it stop? ( questioning ) >> excuse me. you take a look at the night

before, they were there to protest the taking down of the statue of robert e. lee. infrastructure question, go ahead. >> did the statue of robert e. lee stay up? >> i would say that's up to a local down, community or the federal government, depending on where it is located? >> how concerned are you about race relations in america and do you think things have gotten worse or better since you've taken office? >> i think they've gotten better. look, they've been frayed for a long time. you can ask president obama about it because he'd make speeches about it, but i believe the fact that i brought in, it will be soon, millions of jobs -- you see where companies are moving back into our country -- i think that's going to have a tremendous, positive impact on race relations. we have companies coming back into our company. we have two car companies that just announced. we have fox com in wisconsin that just announced. we have many companies i'd say pouring back into the country. i think that's going to have a

huge, positive impact on race relations. you know why? it's jobs. what people want now, they want jobs. they want great jobs with good pay and, when they have that, you watch how race relations will be. and i'll tell you, we're spending a lot of money on the inner cities. we're fixing the inner cities. we're doing far more than anybody's done with respect to tinner cities. it's a priority for me. ( questioning ) >> are you putting what you're calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral a plain? >> i'm not putting anybody on a moral plain. i'm saying you had one group on one side and one group on the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was vicious and horrible. it was horrible to watch. but there was a group on this side, you just called them to the left, that came violently attacking the other group, so you can say what you want, but that's the way it is. ( questioning ) >> you said there was hatred and

violence -- >> i think there is blame on both sides, you look at both sides, i think there's blame on both sides, and i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. and, if you reported it accurately, you would say. ( questioning ) >> excuse me. you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. you had people in that group -- excuse me. excuse me. i saw the same pictures as you did. you had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from robert e. lee to another name. ( questioning ) >> george washington was a slave owner. was george washington a slave owner?

so will george washington now lose his status? are we going to take down -- excuse me. are we going to take down statutes to george washington? what about thomas jumpsen. you like him? okay, good, are we going to take down his statue? because he was a major slave owner. so you know what? it's fine. you're changing history, you're changing culture, and you had people -- and i'm not talking about the neo-nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally -- but you had other people in that group condemned other than neo-nazis and white nationalists and the press has treated them unfairly. in the other group also you had fine people but you also had them with troublemakers and you see them come with the blackout fits, the helmets and the baseball bats. you had a lot of bad people in the other group, too. >> rose: many suggest steve bannon the president's chief

strategists is at least partly responsible of the president's response. bannon has long attracted attention for ideological ties to members of the far right. some are calling for his ouster. joining me is washington washington from washington. wrote about the political partnership between the president and chief strategist in the recent book "devil's bargain: steve bannon, donald trump, and the storming of the presidency." green is also national correspondent for "bloomberg businessweek" and cnn. pleased to have him back on the program. begin with what you're hearing with respect to the future of steve bannon, josh. >> in the last couple of days, clear from leaks in the white house and other major papers that bannon was on thin ice for two reasons. run, feuding with h.r. mcmaster, the national national security advisor. the new chief of staff general kelly wants to bring

order to the white house. it looked like bannon was on thin us a because of that. there was the publicity that he's gotten because of the book. and the fact trump reacted so viscerally in the press conference to the criticism over his response to the charlottesville riot i think shows he is disinclined to fire steve bannon, is still listening to him and is speaking about this matter in a way that steve bannon would speak about it. so he doesn't seem to be somebody on the verge of pushing out his chief strategist. >> rose: does he need steve bannon? >> i don't know if he does or not, but i think that bannon and trump have a kind of connection. i think trump understands that bannon is someone who viscerally understands him and understands his politics and is able to channel this nationalist,

populist world view that trump and bannon together used to get trump to the white house. having said that, trump has come under an awful lot of criticism for taking steve bannon's advice in the wake of the charlottesville violence and refusing to call out the alt right racists, the white supremacists and the neo-nazis. that was a tactic that worked during the presidential campaign when hillary clinton put pressure on trump to renounce this violence and he didn't. it did not work at all in this instance because here we could see on our own television sets the violence that was happening and the lives that were lost as a result of it. >> rose: can you tell us if you know the role that bannon played in shaping the president's response to charlottesville? >> well, i know based on my reporting and others have reported this, too, that while steve bannon was not in bed minister with trump, the two of them had phone calls and trump solicited his advice on how to

respond. i don't know what was said in those conversations, but what trump said in his initial response, blaming many sides and refusing to specify the alt-right as being culpable for most of the violence and his latest press conference in which he angrily returned to that position, both of those are the positions that steve bannon would take on this issue, not only because he believes the alt-right is an important part of trump's political base, but because he characteristically does not like to bend to the demands of the mainstream media and the democratic party and even the republican establishment all of which have been telling trump you must condemn these people and specify they are responsible and no one else. >> rose: but the president seems to adhere to what he said today. you had a group on one side that was bad and a group on the other

side that was also very violent, nobody wants to say it, but i will say it now, the statement i made on saturday, the first statement was a fine statement but you don't make statements that direct until you know the facts. >> i think that this is trump's way of obfuscating and deflecting blame. this is a tried and true trump tactic he's used again and again. he'll say something vague that implies there's more there -- we need to stop immigration of muslims from foreign countries until we figure out what's going on. we need to withhold judgment about charlottesville until we know all the facts. i don't think that really means there are a lot more facts we don't know, but it's trump's way of avoiding having to specifically apologize because one thing we know about trump vividly on display after charlottesville is that he is loathe to apologize for or condemn any of his supporters and that's especially problematic in a case like this

one when those supporters are racists. >> rose: how much of the people we talk about supporting trump are racist and how much of them are neo-nazis and white supremacists? >> i don't think you can poll this very clearly. i strongly suspect the subset of trump supporters who are actual racist and nazis is very small. however, i think bannon believes they are a critical part of trump's core of support because they are the truest believers, the people that come to breitbart news, that show up at his rallies, that are active on social media. we know trump is aware of them because he often retweets them and has in the past couple of days even though he is routinely condemned for this and sometimes has to back off. i think that trump himself believes that condemning these people is capitulating to his political opponents. he refused to do it last august when hillary clinton gave a

speech and called on trump to fire steve bannon and distance himself from the alt-right. he wouldn't do it then. he is obviously loathe to do it now in the wake of charlottesville and having been forced into it a couple of days ago, now we can see in this press conference he essentially returned to his original position, and i think it shows two things, charlie. he is not listening, trump is t listening to businessd he's leaders. instead, i think he is experiencing this viscerally through the lens of cable news and is responding with real anger to the torrent of criticism that he's gotten these last few days with how he's handled this crisis. >> rose: clearly he's not listening to his daughter either. >> no, but that's nothing new. why she often tries to sand off the rough edges or steer him in a more moderate direction, trump doesn't seem to listen all that often. he didn't do it on the paris

accords, he didn't do it when it came to his desire to ban transgender soldiers in the military, he certainly didn't do it in his response to the charlottesville violence, so i don't know what effect that really has on the president. >> rose: so for the president is it political opportunism or racism or is there no difference in this case? >> i would choose a third option, and i would say this is who trump really is. he response viscerally to this criticism. i don't know that he's a racist, although the fact that he is so unwilling to criticize racism when she's so easy to criticize other people certainly makes you wonder. but trump's response to this cry crisis is not dissimilar to his response to other political attacks that don't involve issues of race and that is a

truculence to admit he's made an error or accept criticism. trump just won't do it. i think on an issue like charlottesville where race and identity are at the center of this debate, that tendency that trump has become heightened in a way that's very ugly and moral will upsetting, not just to voters and business leaders but to member of his own party and apparently to members of his own family. >> rose: there is also this, though, a fight with h.r. mcmaster, certainly at breitbart, and you assume breitbart would not be doing it without the acquiescence, perhaps the urging and certainly the knowledge of steve bannon, and john kelly has stepped into that, it is reported, so if you have h.r. mcmaster and a lot of moderate people who feel strongly about him in the military like mattis and others, and you have john kelly feeling that this is not healthy for what he needs to do to straighten up the white house,

that's a couple of powerful people aligned against steve bannon. >> it is and i think if bannon is fired it will be because of his feud with mcmaster. this has been going on for months and it's become especially intense and especially public over the last couple of weeks. it's now pulled in mainstream media outlets, the "wall street journal" editorial page has been very critical of steve bannon. in return, breitbart news has been extraordinarily critical of h.r. mcmaster. kelly wants this to tamp down, and the message he has sent to trump's senior team is that this needs to stop, people need to stay in their lanes. mcmaster is the guy that kelly is empowering on foreign policy as is appropriate from his role in the nationa national securitl and the fact that bannon is a part of it, if bannon accepts those structures and will report to kelly and slow down these

attacks in the media if he's able to, then i think he's going to be able to survive. he's yous harming your presidency and it's time to fire him. >> rose: what do we know about how much the president is listening to john kelly? >> there is ant lot of evidence he's listening to kelly. kelly was supposed to run a tighter ship, and instead we've had twitter exposes from trump, he's come unhinged at the press and others. there are so many stories and crises clashing at once, i would say kelly's tenure is off to a rocky start. however, he is still conducting the staff review. he is still trying to get things in order and he has said he's not going to try and curb

trump's behavior or even take away his twitter account. so i don't know how much of an effect he can really have on trump if he's going to leave aside those two critical areas. but i think we need to give him a few more weeks to see if things can settle down and if trump is able to get beyond charlottesville which he was supposed to be attempting to do today with a press conference on infrastructure which was going to be the next thing. instead we saw from trump's own reaction that he wants to return to this fight about charlottesville. that's not something you can blame on steve bannon or an advisor. this is donald trump and nobody seems to be able to control donald trump. >> rose: we always come back to that point, don't we? >> we sure do, and until that can change, and i'm not sure it ever will, i think we'll continue through these trumpian cycles of chaos and purge. >> rose: josh, thanks so much, josh's book is "devil's bargain." thank you, josh. >> thank you. >> rose: we'll be right back.

stay with us. >> rose: katrina adams is here, she is chairman and c.e.o. of the u.s. tennis association. the u.s.t.a.'s mission is simply to promote and develop the growth of ten misthroughout the country including identifying and nurturing top u.s. talent to compete on the global stage. the u.s. indian ocean owns and operates the u.s. open. all eyes will be on federer, the 36-year-old will be seeking a third major title after winning the australian open and wimbledon tournament. pleased to have katrina adams at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: are you the first person to serve as c.e.o. two terms? >> i am. >> rose: my goo goodness and the first person who was a player to become c.e.o. as well. >> yes. >> rose: did you love tennis from the first moment. >> absolutely. when i picked up a racket at age

6, i loved it. i didn't know it was professional but i loved the sport. >> rose: you have great hand-eye coordination that makes great athletes. >> i grew up with brothers. when i picked up sports, having been an athlete at a young age, it made it easy for me to pick up the sport. >> rose: what did it mean to see arthur ashe win wimbledon? >> it was the first summary i picked up a racket in 1975, and i didn't understand the sport or the dynamics of it, i didn't know what the significance of winning wimbledon or a tournament like that was but i do know that when i watched him play on a 1 inch black and white television i said, wow, you get to do this on television? that's really cool. it wasn't until years later i understood what i witnessed. >> rose: we talk about u.s.t.a. and developing talent. how do you do that? how do you develop young talent?

because we've seen waves of american talent, strong at one decade and not so strong in another decade. >> well, i think we've had strength throughout the sport over time and it's about how the players really adapt to it. developing is really providing opportunities and what we're doing these days with our tenant under program and providing an opportunity for these kids to learn the sport with kid-size dwiment, smaller rackets, lower bouncing balls, smaller courts where they can really understand the movement and the strokes at an early age, they can develop that much quicker. i said, if i had had that opportunity when i was that age i might have had a better forehand than i did. but it's about making sure we have the proper programs for them that are available to them and accessible to everybody in every community. >> rose: and how about the participation of african-americans in tennis? >> we've had a big spike in that over the years. >> rose: because of the williams sisters. >> with venus and serena and you had a lot of kids that saw them

and wanted to be like them. it's like any sports, any major athlete, like michael jordan in basketball, everybody wanted to be like mic. we had or african-american girls who said i want to be vehicle venus or serena, but it also transcended to anybody of color that started to gravitate towards them. that's how we were able to really get a lot of our african-american players both male and female into the sport in the last 20 years. when you look at the the professional rankings now and see them and madison keys and sloan stephenson, taylor townsend and sasha, vickie duval, you can see how these players that started the sport because of venus or serena how it's really paid off. >> rose: what about latino? we haven't had as much success in that area. one of my major initiatives is bringing tennis to the hispanic communities and understanding how to communicate within the

different cultures of those communities and to make it a platform and opportunity for cultures that really haven't gone towards tennis. they play a lot of soccer, baseball and other sports, but we're making it more accessible. we had a 12% growth in our hispanic numbers after our first year of really making a major push in it. we have a young man doing wall now, ernesto escobedo and see what he's doing. >> rose: it will be a similar tobl young kids. >> and then christina, of cuban descent. you have role models you can look up to and for the players to go out into the community, they're doing clinics, and wherever they can to make sure the kids are getting involved. >> rose: is the use of drugs for enhanced performance going to be a big issue? >> we haven't had that in our sport. when you tack about the kids and getting stronger and bigger,

it's about being lean and fast. when you look at football, you're thinking about the kids trying to get so bulky and using performance-enhancing drugs, but it hasn't been that big of an issue that we've ever seen with our kids. >> rose: how would you describe the way they handled maria sharapova? >> it's something she came out and admitted. >> rose: tests were positive? yes, that the test was positive. she owned up too it, took full responsibility for it, she served out her term and it was something that was legal that turned to be not legal. so it wasn't something that was on the banned list forever and that's something that's been dealt with and everyone's moving forward from there. >> rose: what do you see as your biggest challenge? >> in the sport is continuing to get kids in the sport but also to keep them in the sport. there are so many other opportunities out there these

days with our youth, with other sports, with what technology is providing them. we have so many couch potatoes because they're dealing with their tablets and phones, but as long as we can continue to make the sport exciting and engaging. we've started a new youth brand, net generation, that will be premiered really this summer at our u.s. open series and at the u.s. open and hopefully we can get a lot more kids excited about being in the spot, let them know it's fun, engaging, a lot of our professional players are supporting it, behind it and promoting it, and that's really where we are is making sure we can get players in the game but keep them for a long age. >> rose: how much difference do you think it made in terms of serena and vanessa, in between the two williams sisters, how much difference did it make that they had a father who was as obsessed with the game as they were and a mother? >> for vein thinks and vein narks i think it was everybody has your own path. we do have those obsessive

parents in the game. >> rose: is it good for the game? >> we've always had them. depend on what their approach is. i think it's good anytime you can have a parent supporting their child and their dreams and making sure they have every opportunity possible to be the best that they can b. so what works for the williams sisters may not work for someone else. so we embrace any parent that wants to be in the sport and have their kids in the sport but we want to make sure that the child is protected, if you will, and making sure they have the right guidance and the support behind them that they're not overworked so that they can stay in the sport forever. >> rose: but you start very early playing tennis. even at the competitive level. >> well, we have ten and under tennis, that's true, but we've taken the ranking out of it so ranking is not an issue. age lot of times when youth are gunning to be number one that they start to cut corners and not really focus on developing.

they're only focusing on a ranking. that's something that we really try to promote throughout our game, particularly throughout u.s.c.a. player development is making sure that the parents and the players and the coaches understand that the development part is the most important part. the rankings will come. the success will come. and if you focus on just winning too soon, you're going to miss out on really being the best player that you can be. >> rose: do you continue to play? >> i do continue to play. i don't play as much as i used to. my knees are not holding up right now the way that i like to will you hopefully i'll get those taken care of and get back out there and be as active as i used to be. >> rose: what's the difference between a player who reaches -- say is somewhere between 50 and 100 versus a player who is between 1 and 5? what is it that those at the top have that those who are competitive and talented and successful don't have? >> well, i can speak from

experience on both sides a little bit. i only reached 67 in singles and never really was able to crack top 50 or above that. i thought i had the ability to be top 20, top 10, but i didn't make it, but i was top eight in doubles. so i understand what it means to be a top-ten player on that side and your focus and commitment. i always say champions are born. they're something that's innate and inside. >> rose: is it hard or in their physical structure? >> everyone can hit a forehand -- >> rose: there was something about his shoulder, pete sampras, the great server he was, there was something about the muscular structure of his shoulder. >> right. i think the physical part can be taught. >> rose: the hand-eye u can have the best forehand, best backhand in a serve, but if you can't put it together mentally and emotionally, you

can't get past a certain threshhold. >> rose: my guess is and it has to be a guess, my guess is the mental age kicks in when you geto the top ten in terms of being able to -- because you've got all the equipment necessary to be a great player, but there is something about the mental edge, the will to win that separates one and ten. >> well you still have to get to ten, so you still have to have the bill wil to win throughout your entire career to progress from 100 to 50 to 20 to 10. once you get into that 10 number as you mentioned, it really is -- it becomes mental and self-belief and understanding what works with you. it's not just on the court. it's off the court. you have to make sure you're feeling good about yourself, you're doing everything properly that can make you feel nothing but a clean thought while you're

out there on the court and executing whatever it is that you've trained on and that's very difficult to do when you are in this sport. >> rose: when you were number eight in doubles and 67 singles, did you have a full-time trainer, coach, new triesist, psychological instructor? >> no. i didn't really have access. i did have a coach. i had a trainer i worked with occasionally but i couldn't afford to have all those year-round like our top players today, so there is something that separates the levels of player based on what you can afford as well. >> rose: if you could do your career over, what would you do different? >> that is a very good question, charlie. i enjoy my career. i enjoy doing the things i did. i was involved off the court. i was on the board of w.t.a. and

the tour. i was involved in wanting to make a difference and give back and make the sport better. so even from the professional level, i was very active. so, therefore, my focus was not just solely on me physically and mentally in my preparation because i&was also focusing on the political side of the game which obviously has worked out well putting me in the position that i am in today with the u.s.c.a. >> rose: ronald reagan -- but i will say i probably would have trained differently, i would have loved to have had a full-time fitness trainer to make sure i i was in the best possibly shape. i did go to college so i kind of came out with what they called the freshman 15 or late built more and i had to learn how to get in better shape over time so it took time away from me i think early on in my career. >> rose: let's look at the u.s. open coming up on

august 28. how do you get prepared? how does the venue get prepared? >> it's he can tick. we are rebuilding louie armstrong stadium, so we've had to really shut down the construction, the rebuilding of the new louie armstrong stadium and dress it up for the public to come in. but we built the temporary louie armstrong stadium in what we call parking lot b, so that will be something new this year. but the remainder of the facility is done and, you know, the biggest thing was putting the roof over and opening up the grandstand court last year. so it's about cleaning up the site from the construction site, turning it into what people know from the u.s. open, but it's a lot of teamwork from every department of our staff and understanding every sector of the u.s. open is covered.

>> rose: one of the great things about the u.s. open -- and i have been to wimbledon and the french open, itch not been to the australian open, and watched a lot of tennis played at a variety of places, is that the u.s. open in the early stages of the tournament, you can walk around and be this close to a great player in the early stages of the game. i mean, it's wonderful to be able to have that kind of exposure to greatness. >> yes, it's exciting. that's the part that i call the u.s. open. it's great to be in the stadium and feel the energy and excitement that comes out of there and watching some of the top players. in the first ten days we have 16 other match courts going on. your top players will also be out there. so be able to walk around, feel the excitement and the energy from all the players and watching the coaches and being as close as we are, i really call that the u.s. open a true experience, a true fan

experience. there are so many things going on entertainment-wise, social media outlets, et cetera, and that's what, when we have people come out, many people, the majority of our people are actually buying grounds pass, our stadium seats 23,000 people -- >> rose: don't get to the stadium -- >> have access to every court but arthur ashe stadium. that's the best ticket to be able to go out there, be in the food court and be up close and personal. >> rose: how many players on the women and men's side, what's the number of people that qualify for the u.s. open? >> we have 128 main draw players on both the men and women and so the final 16 spots of each draw are provided to the qualifiers and-or wildcards. >> rose: so you can be a wildcard and have a shot and not are b ranked in those kinds of things? >> kim received the wildcard after giving birth and won the

tournament south possible. >> rose: what are the rankings on the women's side this year? >> good question. fluctuating at the top now but you've got angelique, is a amonia, christina, venus williams is nine now so we have one american a top nine but we have 15 women in the top 100, we have nine men in the top 100, three in the top 20. so it should be a good year for the americans. >> rose: on the men's side? ton men's side, well, nadal will take over the number one ranking this week after cincinnati, andy murray pulled out so he's not able to defend his points,. >> rose: roger three and four? good question. caught me offguard. >> rose: and djokovic is not playing because of injuries? >> djokovic not playing,

wawrinka is not playing. >> rose: why? he retired at wimbledon with a knee injure. >> rose: he's been at the table. >> so that's why the number fourth one escaped me because one of the top four won't be there. >> rose: will you assume roger will be the jimmy conners of the new york fans? >> roger's always been a new york fan, a new yorkers player, so i think a lot of people will be gun for him or rooting for him. going after his 20th grand slam title here at the u.s. open. a lot of milestones that we'll be celebrating. if he happens to win to celebrate his 20th grand slamtite will is something that hasn't been done. >> rose: at 36. at 36, correct. so he's remarkable. he is such a class act, so charming, so charismatic, a great athlete. >> rose: an elegant game, too. yes. >> rose: congratulations, nice to have you here. rose: best wishes for a great tournament. >> thank you very much.

thanks for having me. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: th "unbreakable kimmy schmidt" is an optimistic woman who experience us in found freedom in new york city after being held captive in a bunker by a cult leader for 15 years. emily writes by making horrible things funny it's suggesting surviving can be more than just living on, it could be a kind of freedom, too. the third season is this may. nominated for five emmys including outstanding comedy series. >> titus, want to take a free career test? >> no, took one in high school and told me to become a mannequin. >> that would be a good job because you get so still when you're angry. oh, no, are you angry right now? >> yes, i'm angry right now! last night i saw mikey going

into his apartment with another man! >> really? well that doesn't necessarily mean -- >> he's cheating on me, kim! they were laughing and touching arms and worst of all, you will need to sit down, i noticed mikey was wearing a date night outfit he wore on our first date. >> are you sure the other guy was gay? >> everybody is, it's the '90s. >> you have to give mikey a chance to explain. >> i know what i saw. don't overreact. i'm doing what any reasonable person would do in this situation. i'm eliminating. >> rose: pleased to have three of the stars of the series at this table. ellie kemper, tituss burgess and carol kane. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: when the idea was this was developed for nbc and

it ends up on netflix, was that a good move? were you worried? were you concerned? were you -- >> i think we were all relieved. we were all relieved, yeah. >> rose: relieved? yeah. only because we knew that the show was going to be -- >> rose: you why when netflix paid for it it would be on the air. >> yeah, because with nbc we weren't sure of the air date. so things were up in the air, to me. the change to netflix happened quickly to us. seemingly overnight. >> i got a call. it was, like, literally friday night to saturday. >> rose: but you will be on bad news no nbc. >> she's like well, you're going to hear something in a few hours but don't be alarmed. this is a good thing. i say, if you say it's a good thing, it's a good thing. >> rose: is the challenge to be able to find humor in dark? >> yeah, there's many challenges. >> rose: okay. first of all, i think the show is so exquisitely written

it makes our job easier. the darkness is in the writing itself. so that's a huge help. i think there is so much subject material that is borderline devastating, or outright devastating, and i think the way to navigate that can be challenging, but so much is there in the writing already. >> rose: someone suggests it may ban argument against cynicism. >> that's what's crazy about our show zits not cynical. at the end of the day -- >> rose: when you have every reason to be cynical. >> every reason. >> rose: you've lost 15 years of your life. >> but it's a hopeful -- people respond to the hopefulness. it's not cynical at all. >> losers who are fighters and who have hopes, yeah. >> rose: what do you think the attractiveness of the show is? >> you're looking at her. ( laughter ) >> rose: yeah, here we are.

it's hopeless optimism. that is so well put. hopeless optimism. >> i love it. >> rose: did you read about kidnapping stories so that you could have some feeling for what those people said it was like to emerge after captivity? >> yes, i dud, and at the beginning of the show i was worried about how this would be received and how you're treating this very delicate subject because you don't want to treat it lightly at all. being sensitive to that and saying this is the story that happens after you emerge. >> rose: there is optimism. you thought you would be in a dungeon forever and now you're not. >> yeah, and i think it can be relatable on a less dramatic scale to anyone because people have had terrible things happen and need to keep going forward. but you don't want to treat something like at lightly. >> rose: so wha what do your

friends say about your character? >> they're all trying to figure out which version of that i'm doing. >> rose: they all think you're -- >> they laugh. they're sort of used to my shenanigans inside of our friendships, our relationships. >> rose: what comes out of the character? >> they've seen versions of it. >> rose: but you draw on that? of course. a lot are my family members but they don't know it. i would never tell them which versions trr. i think there are only a few pockets that are me. rose: a few parts areheater. similar to you. >> very few, i think. >> rose: so define the character on screen. >> define titus. let's see here. i think titus is defensive but

only because he's afraid to be seen but he wants to be seen. i think titus is -- >> rose: he wants the light -- but he's afraid of it. he'll chase it at any cost but doesn't know what to do with it when he gets it even for a brief moment. very talented but misguided. very complex individual. hard to -- >> rose: but a perfect play off her optimism. >> a perfect play off her optimism. i think titus is -- i think kimmy's optimism has had a residual effect on titus. i don't think it's something that he would have chosen for himself or that her traits are something he wishes to incorporate on purpose. i think it's all because of some sort of accidental circle situation where he then re-examens his own personal character and sees why her

teachings are important, i think. >> rose: carol, how does lillian view these two characters? >> i think so grateful is that tell me who lillian is. >> i'm their land lady. >> rose: yeah. and some people think i'm the land lady of a building in harlem and i let slip a few times it's actually a tugboat that i've purchased. but i think that i'm so grateful because we need each other, and i think that i was probably before this break here very alone, outspoken in part of the neighborhood, but i think -- and before titus had another roommate, a lover, i believe it was, and i don't think i was so welcomed then. and now that kimmy is there,

somehow their home has become my home. i mean, i come down there and shave my legs while i'm watching tv on the couch. >> rose: in their home. well, it's my home that i'm renting to them. but i feel at home with them. i think that we are some sort of a strange little family unit. that's how it's going. and i think we all sort of really need each other is that kimmy went to college this season? >> went to columbia. not just any college. >> rose: because the season was in new york. >> yes. and kimmy gets into columbia on a rowing scholarship which is not an actual thing because ivy league schools don't give athletic scholarships because it's kimmy's what happens is a long story but a fellow rower happens to glimpse kimmy on a machine and one of kimmy's greatest traits is she's

impossibly strong from all the years in the bunker but i think she was born strong. she goes to columbia on this rowing scholarship. turns out she's not as smart as maybe we would like her to be. she's not book smart, she's socially smart. that's where we landed on that. i was disappointed. >> rose: meaning she gets people and she knows how to be friendly to people? >> i think so. again, how to navigate social situations for the most part. a spoiler alert she fails out of college. >> rose: what's the primary impact of what she spent these 15 years on her today? >> i think a relentless optimism. i think she was born with this ability to persevere and this tenacity, but i think that what she -- she has seen the worst of human behavior, so i think nothing can shock her, but

instead of giving up hope in her fellow man, it only reinforced it. i hate to say, i don't know how much of that can be taught or learned through an experience. i tend to think she was born with that and she sort of wills herself to make it through a situation. >> rose: how do we cover titus' breakup with his boyfriend. >> how do we cover et up? >> rose: no how is the story unfolded? >> about a year and a half beyonce released an album called lemonade we was revolutionary and provocative and highly praised, critically acclaimed and, so, the cultural impact that that had on pop culture has been long lasting, well into season 3 which premiered a year after lemonade, a proper premiere. any rate, the crew decided the

way to exercise titus' broken heart, his demons would be by way of lemonading. so titus has taken to, i think in titus' head, improving on what beyonce did. ( laughter ) but he goes and he pulls up -- he's very crafty, so he makes this wonderful costume in the likeness of what beyonce wore and goes singing and smashing everything in his path to demonstrate the gravity and the depth of the hurt. >> rose: how involved is tina and robert on this? >> they are very involved. >> rose: they're on the phone with you when the good news comes. >> yes, thank goodness. >> rose: about script, character development? >> oh, absolutely. but they're there, like -- not only on the phone. once in a while maybe a lunch is involved. >> rose: let's talk about your

character. >> well, i mean -- >> rose: or is it more likely to be tina? >> or both. >> rose: did they come together? >> yes. they're responsive to input but they also have a strong image of where you're going and they are very hands-on on the set, thank goodness. when tina comes on the set, i just about get down on my niece and beg her for any little tip she wants to give me. >> rose: you have been doing this acting thing for a while. >> well, darling, i have, but, still, you know, yes, too long, but, you know, talent doesn't have to do with chronological age. >> rose: you're actually talking to somebody who created the words you're going to say. >> well, yeah, and we really like to stick to the script because it's so good. once in a while one of us will

get this brilliant idea, i have an idea for that line! and we'll try like on one or two takes and think, oh, forget it. they wrote it perfect. just shut up, right? ( laughter ) >> i would say one or the other is always on set. is that fair to say? and, oh, no, that mug should be there, dotting every "i." >> rose: every detail. that's why they're so good. >> rose: you have a boyfriend? how do we say this? >> i have had two boyfriends. >> rose: what's happening this season? >> i broke up with bobby durst. it didn't work out. i got scared i would get killed. then i got a new boyfriend that stood for everything that i'm against in that he -- i'm very interested this keeping my

little neighborhood authentic and this guy is bringing like a huge supermarket in there, like a gentrified whole foods. this one gets scurvy and our bodegas o don't have fruit. so we shop at the market and he turns out to be a good guy. >> rose:ates fun production. so much fun. it's really a fun place to be. >> it's great because they brought some of the crew of 30 rock over. >> rose: did they capture the spirit of 30 rock? >> yeah, i think the writing, music, the same, jeff richmond did the music on both shows. there is such different subjects material but it's a similar tone. very zippy. >> lots of jokes, jokes that i don't understand.

>> oh, yeah, i never know what i'm saying but people laugh but i'm very grayful but then i have to say what does that mean what i said? ( laughter ) >> rose: thank you. thank you, titus. thank you, carol. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.

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