>> rose: welcome to the program. it is the end of summer, and as we prepare for the next season, we bring you some of our favorite conversations here on "charlie rose. of the tonight, an hour of music with jon bon jovi, gary clark jr., john mayer, and chris stapleton. ♪ ♪ ♪ i got something in motion something you can't see ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> rose: an hour of music when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: jon bon jovi is here. this year marks the 33rd anniversary of bon jovi.

the group has sold more than-- get this-- 130 million records. it has played more than 200,000 shows across the globe. his jbjs this soul foundation is celebrating its tenth anniversary. it aims to break the cycle of poverty and homelessness around the country and they are, in fact, doing something about it. and i am pleased to have jon bon jovi back at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. it's good to be back. >> rose: 33 years. >> i know. >> rose: 33! >> i know. i've earned the gray hair. it comes with the turf, but i'm happy to say 33 years, yeah, yeah. it -- >> who is the secret, the magic potient to staying power, to being as good today? >> well, i think that there's no magic potient. hard work -- >> always. >> always comes first. being true to who you are think is very important so an audience

who grows up with you can remain with you. and then those who have gotten off the train because life happens, a next generation can come on with certification of those who came before them. >> rose: yeah. we'll get to more of of the album in just a moment. but you have to change-- you have to remain true to who you are. but you also have to change. >> within the parameters of who you are. why i use that word "truth" and why integrity means so much to me is i've been around long enough that fads and fashions have come and gone. three iterations of boy band generations have come and gone. rap music has come and gone. grunge music has come and gone. and what i never did was jumped on those band wagons when they were becoming increasingly more popular. so as i grew and grew up, i would not try to rewrite "you give love a bad name" or "living on a prayer" again. i was 25 years old. at 54 you have something else to say. or i'm going to come to you and b.s. you.

>> rose: but at the same time you hate to play it when you're on tour? >> no, no, no, not that i hate to play it. i do know all the word-- no, no, no. i don't hate it. >> rose: because i hated to hear, that in fact, because it is-- >> it's taken just a little bit out of context, but the truth is every artist is proud of his new record. >> rose: yes, of course,. >> and you're very anxious to play the new ones. and hence that's why i did the four theater shows. all the new record, only the new stuff, and it was received well. i have been blessed having written or cowritten a number of big hits. and, yes, "living on a prayer" is that song. i got it. i know the words. >> rose: yes, i know. but sometimes i look at a stage and i'll see people looking down at the prompter. >> yes. >> rose: for the words. >> surely. they're there for me as well. not because i don't know the words to them. >> rose: for protection. >> yes. because my mind-- in a perfect show, the last thing i'm ever doing is thinking about what's

going on. i'm on another plane. >> rose: where are you? >> i am thinking about having a drink with you somewhere in the bar after. because in truth, i'm having such a great time, that i am not in and of the minutia. if i hear a note go wrong, that's when i come back to earth. otherwise, i become that-- that thing that takes me -- >> and that's the performance. >> oh, yeah. it's fantastic. it's a spiritual -- >> you and are one with the audience at that point. >> most definitely. but on another plane. it's not about worrying about the minutia. it's about taking in this energy together. >> rose: why isn't your band in the rock 'n' roll hall of fame? >> you know, charlie, the truth is... we have met all the prerequisites and if you really want to be brutally honest, some of us have friends in the business, and some of us have friends that are not such good friend, and then you have other people that are envious and jealous. i've hay couple of falling outs

with a couple those people and they're going to hold it over my head. look, statistics people alone. the music has spoken to generations, but i won't get in while these guys are there, and it's okay. >> rose: you can outlive them? >> well, rock 'n' roll was found on rebellion, and i'd rather have the integrity of knowing i went right to the guy and let him know which one of my fingers was pointing in his general direction and it was very close. >> rose: who are these people? are they musicians, artists? >> the people in charge of voting of this secret little ballot that they have. >> rose: oh... >> it's the truth of the matter. none of our memorabilia is in there. i've taken it all out. and i had a falling out with a couple of the people there-- more than one. >> rose: are you a songwriter who happens to perform or a performer who happens to write songs? >> i think that my-- i'm a very good performer. but my joy comes from song writing.

songwriting first, second performing, recording third. i do enjoy the interaction with the audience but i am not an applause junky. i know those who are. >> rose: you do have a sense of business. >> true glu really are. i mean, you think about owning an n.f.l. team. you count among your friends some of the most successful businesspeople around. >> thank you. >> rose: you've enjoyed their company. >> i do. >> rose: you know their language. >> well, i'm not a 25-year-old kid -- >> my point is that you have a sense that, you know, people are paying money for us to show up. and we have to show up. >> well, that's most definitely the truth. but there's also that commitment to the people who work for you and their families, or the record company or the promoter or the fan that worked so hard to buy a ticket or your legacy. all of these things matter. you know, the cliche of 1970 and coming up the way i watched led zeppelin come up with fun from afar or fun when i was 20.

but i gotta go to work you know. it just doesn't ring true anymore. >> rose: it's hard to keep a band together. >> it is. >> rose: they develop different ideas. i mean that's-- >> it's a family, and it's very difficult when you have marriages and kids and life goes on. >> rose: but the story i hear-- and you would know more about this-- is that, you know, mick and keith are always in conflict or competition. >> mmm. >> rose: i don't know who it is that most wants to go on tour. but they get it together. >> i don't -- >> and they do it. >> i don't have the pleasure of knowing those gentlemen. i have to tell you. i would love to sit in a room with mick jagger. >> rose: and what would the conversation be about? >> oh, when i sit down-- there are so many -- >> what would you want ton? >> here's the first question i want to know-- when in god's name are you going to quit so at

least i know where the end zone is? let me start the conversation light. just give me a day and a date so i know where the end zone is." t how does he do?it. t? and how has he done it so long? and how has he kept it together. and god bless him for doing it. they are without question my rock 'n' roll band idols. yes, without question. >> rose: because of longevity? >> longevity, the category of music. the permanentance ability. how he kept it together, how they kept it together. you know, it's a band. you know, they're not a solo artist. they're a band. >> rose: they really are. >> you see i straddle the line between the two. >> rose: with very different personalities. >> most definitely. and god bless them for it because they are the rolling stones. >> rose: do you look at yourself in the mirror sometimes and say, "you are one lucky s.o.b.." >> sure. >> rose: because you get to do something that's demanding and challenging and requires all of your body and soul and brain and heart and everything about you

in order to do it. in order to keep it up. in order to go out there and have-- make sure that people say to you, "bring it on. this is what i want." >> yeah, and you have to do the same as does tom brady and your producer. >> rose: right. rk and give your best everygo to single day. >> rose: exactly. >> why i say i'm a lucky s.o.b., is i got to do what i wanted to do. >> rose: to write music and perform. >> as a little boy that's all i wanted to do. by the time i was 16, 17 years old, this was it. fortunately i was young enough and the drinking age was low enough they could do those things and i cannot have any other responsibilities. so by 20 when i got a record deal the sweat was off the brow, because there was no-- my folks didn't have to say, "we don't want to support you." >> rose: you have built houses for people, you have fed people. that's what the foundation has done. >> yes. >> rose: and in significant numbers, too, by the way. >> thank you. >> rose: you are a very

wealthy man. >> rose: yes. >> you want to you want to buy an n.f.l. team. >> yes. >> rose: you have been in pursuit of buying an n.f.l. team? is it going to happen? how close has it come? >> we were on the doorstep. we had the where with all to do it. that wasn't the issue. >> rose: either with your own funds or-- >> i have two partners. we're talking substantial numbers here. but we-- we really did want very, very, very, very badly to didn't work out for me. >> rose: will it work out? do you see another opportunity? >> there's always going to be an opportunity. >> rose: and once you get on the n.f.l.'s list i assume you stay on the list. >> well, i don't know. we'll find out. when the opportunity arises, if -- >> but you know owners, too. >> i money many. >> rose: and they've got a vote. >> most definitely. yeah. yes and no. >> rose: yes and no meaning what? >> they don't have a vote. the team's for sale. the owner sells it it.

they don't have a vote in that. >> rose: they can't control it. >> they can approve it but it's not true. >> rose: whoever has top dollar gets it. then why didn't you get the bills? >> we didn't have a chance to bid. iit was a sealed bid, and we wee outbid. god bless the guy who got it. good for him. >> rose: what is it about football? >> well, i love the game. my boys have played it their whole childhoods. i have one that plays in high school and one that plays in college. but what i found the game had given thesms commitment and dedication. what i had gotten from it was camaraderie, compounded by the fact i, i would bring something very unique to it and that was the allure for me. those 32 men are all very-- men and women-- are all very, very smart people. but i just think i bring something different to it. >> rose: so that you would be a very good owner. >> well, i don't know if i would

be a very good owner but i believe in it. >> rose: who is the difference you think you would bring? >> i'm in the giving away all my tricks even on your show. because they're all watching. but i have thaird more than enough of them that i'm fortunate enough to be included in a little business with the league now. at are great.are with themi have they're exciting. i love the game. >> rose: so you want to be part of the family. >> i would like that very much. >> rose: much success with this. >> thank you. >> rose: "this house is not for sale." what a fabulous photograph. nd, the four members of the. band. >> there's a great energy, and i thank you. >> rose: it's a pleasure to have you. >> thanks, charlie. >> rose: gary clark jr. is here. the grammy award-winning blues guitarist has been dubbed "the chosen one." his fans include buddy guy, keith richards and eric clapton,

who calls clark "incredibly inspiring." he goes on to say, "gary does what i'd like to do on stage without any effort at all." his new album is called "live north america 2016." here is gary clark jr. performing "the healing" right here in our studio. ♪ ♪ we stand in formation while they test and they see ♪ they compile information then try to make us believe ♪ that there is something we can't touch ♪ something we'll never feel

yeah, yeah ♪ when i feel like it's too much this music always reveals ♪ this is our healing this music is our healing ♪ we need some healing when this world upsets ♪ this music sets me free god only knows ♪ who will save who will save us now ♪

we got this music healing we got this music, yeah ♪ we got this music, yeah can't take it away ♪ no, no, no . >> rose: i'm pleased to have

gary clark jr. at this table for the first time. ,. >> thank you. >> rose: how did you know you wanted to be a musician? >> i saw michael jac jackson on stage when i was five years old in denver. >> rose: you were five. >> i was five years old. my parents took me to the show, and it was a complete surprise. and i just fell in love with the energy. >> rose: and the dance and the music. >> yeah, the dance and the music. and we had music growing up in the house. and i was always the kid right next to the speaker, you know. trying to figure it out. so i just knew pretty much from day one. i remember having a little-- they would make you sign out sheets when you were a kid of what you were interested in. what's your favorite color? what do you want to be when you grow up? and i would always say something that was somewhat safe, i guess. like, i would want to be a lawyer or-- you know, because i didn't want to be hooked at as

odd. >> rose: but you knew it was something else. >> i knew. i knew from day one i got to get up on a stage. >> rose: but it wasn't easy for you. i mean, you had to struggle like everybody else. >> yeah. i made a choice though, you know. i didn't do the school thing, and, you know, i moved out of my parents' house. didn't have much. and i was just like, "i'm going to survive as a musician sm of the so i played four, five, six, seven nights a week, four hours a night, playing for tips in smoky blues bars, knowing that, you know, i wanted to be alongside people that i'm fortunate enough to be alongside with. >> rose: and knowing that you were learning and all of that. >> i wanted that experience, and from all the experience and the

lessons and the blues guys, you have to have your 10,000 hours. >> rose: oh, yeah. >> you have to put in your time and work and figure out what it means to be on stage and perform live and be a part of a-- of a unit, you know. everybody can get up and play guitar solos all day long. but you're a part of something and you've got to understand how that works and understand how-- you know, you have to build confidence. you have to understand what works, what doesn't, and become more comfortable, you know. if i hadn't put in those hours and some of these gigs and these opportunities that still come up, i don't be if i would be able to own it, you know, and feel comfortable. but i feel like i worked, you know, for this. so... yeah,ic it wa, i think its really important. it was a struggle. i got my lights shut off. >> rose: you mean in your apartment? >> oh, yeah. >> rose: come in and say you haven't paid your bill, no more water, under more lights.

>> you'd be in the middle of recording something... >> rose: my question is you're more of a live guy than a studio musician. >> yeah. >> rose: well the title of this is, "gary clark jr. live: north america 2016." >> live and in person. >> rose: that's right. >> yeah some of my favorite records, james brown at the apollo. >> rose: oh, yeah, me, too. >> marvin gay, live in london. stevie ray vaughn -- >> you can feel the audience is what makes it great for me. >> rose: what. >> rose: you can feel the audience as much as the performer. >> i feel like that's really a place where-- for me on stage. i feel comfortable -- >> but touring is where the money is today, too. >> touring is it. touring is it. so we stay touring. >> rose: but that's true. it really has come to that, hasn't it? yeah.

it's an interesting record business. and that's, you know, part of why i'm so dependent on playing live, why i've been so focused on that. you never know. i feel like people will always want to come and see and hear live music. >> rose: yeah, i'm sure they do. how many gigs do you do a year? >> you know, that's a good question. i think maybe we are doing maybe-- not so much this year. i was getting to a point where i was, you know-- couldn't remember what day it was or where i was. i was like "i need to go home for a second." >> rose: it's terrible when you say, "hello, sacramento," and in fact you're in san francisco. >> you know what, there have been a couple of times i haven't said anything because i wasn't sure. >> rose. >> rose: i think some of the best have done that. thames we will not mention. >> "good night, y'all."

>> rose: just, "good night, y'all. been great to be here in your lovely city." ♪ she left me like she did the night before ♪ >> rose: where do you live? >> i live down in texas, outside of austin. >> rose: outside of austin? >> yes, sir. >> rose: great place. >> it is a great place. i moved around for a little bit. i lived in new york for a couple of years and started to get cold and scared me away. >> rose: like today, windy. >> yeah, exactly. i was out in california for a little bit. >> rose: but austin? >> yeah, i love to be home. i love being able to see my family. >> rose: where do you think you're going? where is the journey leading? what's the next step? is it just to get better? is it to explore new

experiences? >> yeah, i mean -- >> is it to, you know, be-- to open people's ears to a variety of music? or all of the above? >> all of it. i think you-- you expressed that better than i could have. >> rose: maybe i should be writing songs. >> maybe. there you go. ( laughter ) >> rose: no. certainly would be better for me to write them than to sing them, i can tell you that. >> well, how about if we collaborate. >> rose: there you go. i'll write and you sing. >> there gu. >> rose: now what's the hat about? >> the hat? i'll tell you this. my dad bought me a hat a long time ago. i loved seeing michael jackson wearing a hat. i remember him singing "who's loving you," when he was a kid in the jackson five and he had the purple hat and i i thought it was the coolest thing ever with his afro. but from that to stevie ray vaughn to hendrix, john lee

hooker. it's kind of like-- it's just a thing. >> rose: kind of like it blongd. >> and i never put it on. i had one-- my dad bought me one and i thought it wasn't right. and i put it on one day, and it took me a while. i didn't feel comfortable. and then i just stepped out, and got a couple of compliments, "oh, man, that's a good look on you." i said, "you know what? i think it is." >> rose: then it didn't feel comfortable not to have it. >> right. so i sleep in mine. >> rose: you don't! let me remind everybody, "gary clark jr.: live north america 2016." >> rose: john mayer is here, the seven-time grammy award winner has sold more than 30 million records worldwide. he has shared the stage with

guitar great like b.b. king and eric clapton. clapton calls him a master guitar player. he returns with his first album in four years. it is called "the search for everything." i am pleased to have john mayer for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: it was so good that you had to release it in stages. >> i believed in the songs that i thought they deserved to be seen without distraction, either the barrier to the entries of so many songs all at once, or other music coming in, and sort of-- or their being so many songs-- songs that aren't that great. a couple of extra songs that are, and i felt like the boldest thing i could do was say, other i think i did it, and take a look at these four at a time. the response to it has not only been positive for the work but positive for the format of releasing music that way. i was not alone. i'm one-half consumer, one-half artist. and i remember seeing some really great records from great

artists come up on, you know, my spotify or apple or whatever and i'd go, "12?" "this is deep dive. maybe i'll go for the singles right now." i wanted to put music out the way i myself would want to hear it as somebody on the other end. >> rose: is it hard to get acceptance for albums? i have had musicians come up to me and say, "what's happened to albums is disgraceful." >> i think i've been known traditionally now as an artist-- as an album artist. >> rose: right. >> so i think i probably engendered a little more trust with my audience with making records than maybe other ayersts have. i'm okay being a dinosaur in this time, being a guy who makes records. but even then, i've sort of-- sort of broken up the concept of a record. i want to ultimately have a record, but i think what this was, was about making it small enough for people to-- it's an easier point of entry into it, but ultimately ends up with a

record that has an arc, and we think about sequencing, and think about the power of serializing one song before the next and the next. that still matters, i feel like. may not matter now. but i think it may matter again. and what you want to do is sort of future proof it, so if and when people go back to albums, you never looked frightened. >> rose: the writing i assume you have some innate ability, too, beyond just learning process. >> yes. >> rose: clearly. did you have the same thing as a guitarist? did you have some sense of music so you adapt to the guitar and earned the praise of people like clapton and others? >> yes. my father was a piano player-- still has a piano where he lives. and that was my first introduction to music. >> rose: a piano. >> a piano. it's an interval instrument. it's a calculator. it looks to me a little bit-- it is a key board. it's an abacus. it is where i would show someone

how music works. i wouldn't show them on a guitar. >> rose: you would show them on a piano, not a guitar, how music works. >> it's a graphical representation of -- >> how good of a piano player are you? >> i'm really good in the key of "c." the guitar is instantly transposable. the guitar has this transposable geometry. learn a scale here, you just move it up and the key moves. a piano becomes relative to the sharps and flats. the best thing i can do is use a digital piano and transpose it up and play it in a different key but i'm still in "c." so i grew up very quickly going, okay this goes boom-boom-boom. and this goes bing-bing-bing. and then you start to subdivide it. it's a calculator dum-dum-dum-- that's a triad. >> rose: it's all

self-learned? >> for the most part. yes. self-learned from when i was younger sitting at a piano and working that out and a little bit of guitar lessons when i was a kid. my guitar teacher stopped teaching me how to read music. >> rose: because? >> because i took off on this other thing. he would do 15 minutes of book stuff and 15 minutes of-- like, you bring a song in, and he'll teach you how to play the song. i would bring these blues songs in and he would teach me how to do and, and i would go, "i got it." the curriculum gathered quickly on the blues things but we weren't doing the blues stuff. but my parents-- i think they were on to it. and if i remember correctly they said, "play this," and they put the book in front of me -- >> where did you think you were going. >> stevie ray vaughn, jimi hendrix, eric clapton, i was going to do that. that was my calling and still is. when i was 13 years old i went, "got it. of i remember the first night i

had a guitar, and it was bifer had lessons, which i now tell parents who say, "what do i do? i want to give my kid lessons?" i say give them the guitar first. let them discover their own nebulous take on it and fold in the actual theory. that's what i was able to do. i found the most distant room from my parents and play in the middle night of the. and i immediately figured out chords. and i'll never forget look at-- this is not revisionist history eye looked at it and i went, "okay." and that "okay" was so vertical it went through everything in my life. and i went, "this is what i am." >> rose. >> rose: i want to talk about two things you went through, one is the obvious, the four years. but secondly, touring with what's left of the dead. what did you learn from that? i mean, somebody-- a group that is so part of the american culture for certain people? >> yeah, for a lot of people,

and i think they're a lot more accessible than their fans would like-- like, they're a lot more accessible, but people like the barrier to entry. i get it now. because it's-- if it's presented to you in the right sequence of songs, it's-- i mean, it's phenomenal stuff. i seeto see this sort of fraternal, loving thing that feeds a bit off people not understanding it. >> rose: when you left for four years to montana, where were you going and what was the point? >> it's a bit of a reductionist thing. it's not your fault for sort of putting it in those words. >> rose: you put it in the right words for me. you help me. >> so 20 terng i go, "oh, i'm at the end of this idea. the top-star, flat-ironed hair, leather jacket thing. this isn't working. i don't have a dream -- >> not working or you're tired of it? >> nobody dreams past their

third record. i mean, when you're a kid in high school, you're not dreaming about your fourth record, and you're not quite sure how to say, i don't have a plan for this." and you're not quite sure how to ask anybody and you're not sure how to say you want to take a break. people say he's a mastermind. he knows what he's doing. i would call now in a tidy fashion-- i came to the end of an old idea. >> rose: and didn't know where to go? >> didn't know where to go. so you -- >> didn't to go where you were going? >> i just didn't know where to go next. i like organization. and you can have organization on your first record. you can-- you can state your case, and the world can understand it. but you start throwing other things do it, personal life, the misrepresentation of who you are as a person. whereas if you're a smart person, you look at the misrepresentation of who you are as your job to sort out. and i wish i had known that it wasn't, but you want to get

engaged. i'm a people pleaser. if you told me that one of the people on my way in here didn't like me, i would get up from this table right now and start shouting who it was. >> it's a little like people who walk boa room and know the one person who doesn't approve of them or like them. they can see the 99 people who love them. they don't go to them. they go to the one person. >> we want to make it okay. there's no possible way-- because we mean well. >> rose: right. >> there is nothing more dangerous than being a person who means well. >> rose: help me understand this. >> sure, sure. >> rose: the time you took a break-- >> well, i didn't take a break. >> rose: what did you do, then? >> 2010 i come off the road. i say i want to make a completely different record. i make "born and raised." i'm living in dismawrks i was completely left alone and it was really great. i did not move to montana until 2011. i made "bosh and raised" in new york and l.a. and then i had a vocal condition

that prohibit me from singing on tour. and then i made another record out there. i said, "i want to make records. that's what i do." guys like stephen king can write a short one or a big one. i mentioned it before, but george clooney is who everybody should aspire to be in their career, which is make a big one, make a black and white one. and i was like this should be a black and white one. and it gets flattened and reduced so people -- >> what's wrong with-- what is the picture people have drawn that's not true? >> rose: of me. that's a huge responsibility to be honest about because there are things in there that i don't deserve to say should be. that i moved to montana and wrote country songs. although, that's not that far manizer bothers me. womanizer. that's always bothered me. and i think if you really look into all of the times where i

sort of went-- it all sort of went dim for me and my mouth kept going and my brain wasn't there, i think it's-- i didn't-- see, i've been me my whole life. i've watched me. you make these decisions in life. you do the right thing. you give yourself a pat on the back. you get the sense throughout your life, if you do the right thing, you are going to be known as a person who does the right thing. but there's nothing like the hollywood machine getting your information wrong. and i give a lot of information. right? i'd be much better off if i had short answers. it's less t.n.t. to wire up. when they inevitably get it wrong, because i'm putting out so much information, this idea of womanizer comes in. and sosay i'm brisling at it is an understatement. it is a complete distortion of who i am and breeds this idea, well, if you've got this so wrong, then i'm going to be as wrong as you think i am. i don't know where that came from. does that make sense? >> rose: if you say i'm this

i'm going to be theret? >> if you say i'm, this i'm going to subvert this? if you same i'm there, i'm going to parody this. does that make sense? >> rose, of course, it does. you are influenced by what people say about you and you're going to do a parody or in some way go to some extreme of what you're saying just to say-- >> and i think the intent is to make people g, he's not that. he's playing off of that." but that's asking a lot of people's attention span to notice and that and possibly intelligence to notice that. if you have paparazzi on the way to a restaurant, and you're sitting with someone who is not entirely indoctrinated into this world. they say, "you should take a picture of them. why don't guoutside and take a picture of them?" it's everybody's first idea when they feel a little bit captured by something is to fight back. and part of the fighting back is intellectual, this requested of you can't contain me.

i'm going to over-intellectualize what you're doing. we're talking about hyperextending myself way beyond what should be taking place because all i want to do is get back to where it's clean-- here's who i am. here's what i do. i promise you i'm this. i promise you i'm not that. i mean well. and you can get lost in that. >> rose: and the reason they wanted to characterize you that way, as a womanizer, whatever it was, is because-- >> there was a period of time when i was sort of moving-- i couldn't-- it's hard to explain. it's hard to explain. i'm still unpacking it in my own life. it's just a situation where you fall into-- i dated a lot of big names. that's the ultimate. >> rose: you're right, that is the ultimate. >> i dated a lot of big names. and i think people get the size of the name mixed up with the number of people that i've been with. >> rose: so if you date a few big names it seems like you're out there with a lot of women.

>> i think so. and i can't blame anybody for thinking that. it took me a long time to realize people do not google search me. people do not think about me all day. people take a glance at you, and that's the takeaway. >> rose: they're not going to say, "let's see what john did today." >> they're not completists. they see the spikes. and because the music i was making did not entitle me, rightfully, did not entitle me to the kind of press that i was generating or being involved in -- >> it was about your personal life. >> bigger google searches. so i start going, "i'm not that. i'm not that. i'm not that." there was a correction that needed to happen for me. there was a market correction. but i think that sent me into a tailspin and hurt me-- and i never said "hurt me" because i wouldn't admit to it. the best thing i can do now is say, "ouch." the best thing say smart person

who tries to mastermind his way out of everything is say, "ouch." because ouch will lead you to the truth. >> rose: and "ouch" is better than "it hurts me?" >> it's the same thing. "ouch. this hurts. i hate this. this makes me feel bad." i wouldn't admit to it so i would become more militaristic about it -- >> a little like "don't let them see you sweat. of the. >> yeah, whenever you yell the loudest is when you're about to cry. a person yells the loudest and say they can take anything is the second before they're about to crumble. and that's where i was was, "you can't get me." and it was like, "no, they really canment." >> rose: how long ago was that? >> seven years ago. >> rose: and today past all of that stuff? >> past all of it, and understanding, again, people are not john mayer completists. it may take a second to reviewue may have to go over it again with people. does that make sense?

>> rose: is some of that in this album? >> not really. it was in "born and raised" a lot. that was a wounded sort of thing. but i got a lot of music out of going deep into myself. this is a different dive. this is a dive into being a certain age and i think there's a loss in relationship-- there's always one relationship loss i feel like that takes you with it. you know what i mean? it's not just somebody-- you're not just parting ways with somebody. there's always one that kind of takes you down. >> rose: you lose something. >> lose something. >> rose: right. >> yeah. and this is this idea of being as absolutely beautiful as you can be. like, look, let whoever the sort of intelligentia rock outlets and journalists say that it's light or it's bland. i'm going to be as beautiful as i can be about being sad. you know, that's kind of what this was. listening back to the song

called "emoji of a wave," that is what this feels like. which as an artist, a musician, you don't normally get all the time. you come close. you go, "we'll get them next time." 80% of how that feels. there are songs on this record they listen to and i g, i did it. i'm good enough a musician now to translate 100% how something felt," ands that is a possession as an artist that is more valuable than anything you can have. >> rose: and what artists can do is not only express what they felt but say it in a way so that all the fans-- it speaks to something they feel but can't express. >> if you do it right. >> rose: that's where the connection comes. >> that's when people say, "i i feel like i'm looking into a mirror." or, "i feel like you said something i was going through at that exact time in my life." >> rose: i hope you come back. it's been a great pleasure. >> would love to. >> rose: chris stapleton is here, the grammy award-winning

singer/songwriter has been called country's reigning outlaw. it is called "from a room: volume 1." "rolling stone" calls the album ♪ it's been so long since i felt anything you don't feel it all ♪ i used to cry and stay up nights and wonder what went wrong ♪

it's been hard but hearts can only do that for so long ♪ we can't just go on like this ♪ say the word we'll call it quits ♪ baby, you can't go you can't stay ♪ but i won't love you either way

♪ we can't just go on like this say the word, we'll call it quits ♪ baby, you can go or you can stay ♪ but i won't love you either way. >> rose: i am pleased to have chris stapleton at this table for the very first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: country's reigning outlaw. what do you think they mean when they say, "country's reigning

outlaw?" >> i think it's just a reference to music because i'm not much ofap outlaw. >> rose: what about the music? that's what i really mean. >> i don't know. i'm always have in my mind wayland and willy and merle haggard and it's a lot of my favorite things. there were a lot of things that i think musically they were doing right and not that there's a right and wrong, but things they prefer. >> rose: okay, but what were they doing? >> i don't know. just being themselves. that's -- >> yeah. >> and doing what feels good to them, versus trying to be what somebody else was doing. >> rose: when did the music thing happen for you? >> well, i always kind of played music and sang in church with my brother and my dad liked to play the radio a lot. my mom would sing around the house. but i don't know. i played guitar and sang.

i don't know. it was kind of always there. nobody-- i don't necessarily come from a musical family, like, it's not like we were a touring -- >> right, right. >> nobody went out and played. >> rose: you weren't singing in the choir. >> no, not really. but i don't know. at some point, i kind of fell into it maybe for a lack of wanting to do anything else. so... it found me, i guess. >> rose: but was it to sing or was it to write? >> to write initially, you know, when i really got serious about it. and i found out that you could have a job, that someone would pay you money to sit in a room and write songs for other people. >> rose: that's the job you liked. >> i thought that sounded like the greatest job in the world. >> rose: what amazes me is they all say you have the greatest voice around today. it's not even about the song writing skills. it's about the voice. >> i don't know about that. there are a lot of great singers

and a lot of great voices but, you know, hopefully i have something that is recognizable and possibly, you know, will hold up over time. >> rose: well, two million albums will say something, wouldn't it? >> it says we sold two million albums. >> rose: two million people willing to pay to hear you sing. >> absolutely. >> rose: when you're sitting in nashville and sitting in a room writing songs, tell me about that process. >> it can be different on any given day. if it's just me alone, i'm sitting with a guitar and strumming and humming something and seeing where that leads. and that's pretty much the process. or i could hear ray conversation out walking around somewhere -- >> a title or a line. >> a title or something somebody says may stick in my brain. or sometimes it just falls out of the sky into your lab. >> rose: i know how you feel about this-- i'm not trying to push you there, too. everybody-- for whatever reason,

people see you as a route back to wayland and others. you know, you mentioned willy. that somehow are you today an entry back to what made them-- >> i don't know that i would be an entry back, but i certainly wouldn't mind being being viewed as a bridge, you know, somewhere in between. >> rose: or spoken of in the same breath. >> well, i'm not going to put myself in any kind of a sentence with those guys. but yeah, i mean, i think it's important for me, personally, to always kind of have tip of the hat to those guys. but, also, old r&b singser, ray charles. i like all kinds of music, but i hope some of that shows up. >> rose: what happened it at the 2015 v.m.a. awards? >> well, yeah, a lot happened.

eight minutes that -- >> changed your life. >> changed your life for sure. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> rose: did you know it at the moment? >> i knew that we were going to have a really fun time playing music in that eight minutes because we'd spent two days rehearsing. >> rose: so the two of you coming together. >> it was a collaboration in the true sense. he's a remarkable kind of singular talent as far as musical people go.

if you're going to do something with him, it's going to be something good. >> rose: because his talent is so special. >> he elvates. he can elevate things. and he's a great, positive energy and a great performer, you know. he's not very old, but he's a veteran performer. there's a sing that he brings to the stage that not many people can. >> "traveler" sold how many two million? >> plus. >> rose: originally, you were-- i'm told. this is what i'm told-- that you were prepared simply to cut the album and then go on tour to perform all the songs. >> that was my request of the label, and their request of me was, let us find other ways to market things, and we'll think about this and approach it that way." that's what we did. we didn't have a lead-up single or anything like that. we put the record out, and whatever single went to the radio was-- which was "traveler"

at the time-- came out the same week and i booked some dates and i was going to go play. that's the way i knew how to do it. >> rose: touring is something you love? >> i do. i enjoy-- well, i enjoy playing music live. sometimes travel is a hard thing. >> rose: it is. >> but that's part of it. and we travel as comfortably as we possibly can, but i just-- i make the joke all the time-- i play the music for free. you pay me to travel. >> rose: that's great. >> music's free. you pay for the travel. >> rose: your ticket bought my bus or whatever it is. that's what you're paying me for. >> and i did for many years. i would go play for free, or next to nothing, just because i love it. >> rose: you've written more

than 1,000 songs. >> somewhere in that neighborhood. you know, i don't have an exact count. >> rose: but you keep all of them? >> i mean, my publishing company certainly keeps track of them as much as i can turn them in. but, yeah, you mean, do i have them, like -- >> if i said to you, you know-- >> i don't have them on my phone or anything, not on me. but if i wanted to hunt a specific one down, i would call the publishing company and go, "hey, do you have a copy of this?" or i'd track it down. >> rose: anything you're not doing that you'd want very much to do, in music? >> in music? i have been given so many opportunities in music in the last-- well, over my whole career, but particularly in the last two or three years, that i can't imagine that there's anything i'm not getting to do that i want to do. it's really amazing in that way. i tell my mom all the time, i literally have everything i ever wanted. >> rose: "i literally have everything i've ever wanted."

>> yeah, as far as, you know, things that you could hope for and want out of-- and that's a strange feeling a little bit. >> rose: how old are you? >> i'm 39. >> rose: and you have everything you've ever wanted. >> yeah. or ever even thought about wanting. >> rose: more than you ever thought about. >> for sure, yeah. and that's a strange feeling. but it's also-- there's a-- there's a-- i tell people, i've got to get new goals. you know, sometimes-- i remember there was a time when playing the rahman auditorium was my dream. we'd get to that and play a few in succession, and you're like, man, i literally left that gig going, "i'm going to have to get a new goal. i don't have a gig goal anymore." >> rose: the great thing about success, it gives you options. >> for sure. you have the options to do the things you want to do and hopefully, you know, you make

the right choices in doing the things that you want to do. >> rose: and the mur know-- my impression is the more you know the more you can see not only options and possibilities but also you can see, you know, how much further you have to go. >> yeah, i guess. >> rose: i don't mean in terms of talent. i mean in terms of-- once you're good, if you're good, you know, how good you are, but you also know how much better you can be. >> i'm always-- yes, yeah i always certainly have a sense of i need to be getting better playing or singing or, you know, i need to be-- and i always want that. i always want that. that doesn't go away. it's almost like this-- there's a lack of-- if there's a lack of satisfaction, it's in wanting to do something just a little bit better. you know.

and that's okay. i think that's what drives people to make things or to... hopefully, you know, work as hard as they can, you know. >> rose: to create. this isab amazing album. it's good to see you. >> good to see you. >> rose: come back anymore. >> yes, sir captioning sponsored by rose communications

captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

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