>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with hurricane irma which swept through with devastating consequences several caribbean countries, now moving towards florida. we begin this evening with cbs news. south florida's last-minute evacuees stampeded into gridlock on the florida turnpike. traffic stood still for miles. >> rose: turning to politics we talk to jonathan swan of axios. >> here's the real question, there are something like 50 or 55% of americans who cannot stand donald trump. the question is, if he starts doing more things that chuck schumer and nancy pleasey would like him to do, do some of these people then start to say, oh, well, maybe this guy is actually pretty good and maybe i'll vote for him. i don't know the answer to that question, but he's surely going to lose some of the people who

voted for him if he moves more in their direction. >> rose: "the deuce," i talk to david simon, george pataki, maggie gyllenhaal and james franco. >> labor is the product. you have this product that is street pornography. to this day there is no regulation of sex work, obviously, and you have this moment where an industry springs rapidly into being, and these people are the pioneers. >> rose: we conclude with an excerpt with my conversation from steve bannon former c.e.o. of the trump campaign and chief strategist in the white house who is now back running breitbart news, to be seen on cbs "60 minutes" on sunday. >> economic nationalism is what this country was built on, the

american system. >> rose: hurricane irma, jonathan swan, "the deuce" and stevensteve bannon, when we con. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> glor: good evening, i'm jeff glor in miami. anthony mason is in new york. tonight one of the largest evacuations in u.s. history is reaching a critical point.

more than 2.5 million people live in mandatory evacuation zones in georgia and florida and highways are jammed as people head north to escape the worst of irma. this is what the hurricane did in the caribbean, home after home destroyed. irma has sustained winds of 155 miles an hour and now the forecast models seem to agree south florida will take a brutal hit this weekend, the entire state may face hurricane-force winds. late today, the national weather service tweeted "this is as real as it gets. nowhere in the florida keys will be safe. you still have time to evacuate" >> we will have the latest on i remember e's path in a moment. first, let's get to our team of correspondents. we begin with mark strassmann in miami beach which is strangely quiet after so many people left. mark. >> south florida's last-moment evacuees stampeded into gridlock on the florida turnpike.

traffic stood still. shelters overflowed with pets and people. at this miami high school, 40 shelters in the area, 1,000 people turned away. >> the buses won't be picking you up. we'll find a place for you to be safe. >> people stood in line to buy propane, water and food. a storm of price gasping hit the state and florida attorney general bam bondi called -- pam bondi called on some companies by name. >> 7-11, this isn't the time to make a buck, help your fellow citizens. >> miami-dade county ordered people to evacuate. >> i'm really afraid. i have to be honest, i'm afraid that there might not be much. >> really? it's that worrisome? >> tony and rachel codington will ride out irma in their

condo. they live in a 15th floor of a miami high rise with a full week's supply of food, hurricane shutters and a good view of the storm when it barrels through. >> i'm not sure if it will be good or bad but we'll see what's happening. >> tough call? very tough. i want nothing but to be safe for my wife and dog and i think we can manage to a degree but it is scary. >> it's friday night in south beach. the sidewalk should be packed with people but take a look, this place is closed for business. jeff, anyone in irma's path here should be in a safe place by noon tomorrow. >> mark strassmann, thank you. meteorologist craig with our station in miami is tracking irma. craig? >> the latest advisory at 5:00 showing winds still at 155 miles an hour. the category 4 is a little deceiving because the speed only has to increase by 5 miles an

hour to make it category 5 again so it's right on the edge of category 5. heres the wind field. the red area is the hurricane force winds and inside the core, the worst part of the hurricane, the eye wall is the most destructive part. the forecast track shows the storm battering the cuban coast through the night tonight, the day tomorrow and then comes to a key turn right there starting to move north toward the florida keys. the latest advisory is calling for strengthening category 5 going into the keys sometime during the early morning hours on sunday and then after that it's to the north. this is the sunday 2:00 p.m. time frame, closest approach to south florida and miami. any shift to the east could bring that destructive core right into the metropolitan areas, then the rest of the state is under the gun, up in the tampa area where there's increasing concern for storm surge there, atlanta the wind threat and finally begins to wind down. the keys have not been hit by a

category 5 hurricane since 135 and that was catastrophic. category 5 hurricanes are very, very rare. >> craig from w.f.o.r., thank you. the island of barbuda all but wiped out by hurricane irma is in the path of hurricane jose, another category 4 storm. barbuda was home to about 1600 people. laura bicker of bbc news was there today. >> the island of ba barbuda was once a caribbean paradise. now it is lost. hurricane irma has reduced it to rubble. the ruins lie scattered, torn and ripped apart. having survived the worst storm in living memory and knowing another is on the way, people are exhausted, hungry and just desperate to leave. >> everybody is just gone.

the prime minister traveled from a antigua to provide reassurance. he knows there's a race against time before hurricane jose arrives in a few hours. the fragments of people's lives lie in ruins. they can only hope to one day call this island home again. now they must leave by any means possible including this towed large. laura bicker, barbuda. >> coral gables, population 50,000, some chose to ride out the storm aboard boats in canals. we checked in with them through the police chief ed hudak. >> i don't know if anything in the water will be safe. this is four times larger than something that came through here 25 years ago. >> all the boats that are here are not normally here. people tucked them in and tied

them up along the mangroves to protect them. the mangroves should provide a natural barrier and they think the boats will be okay. unfortunately many people made the decision to stay on the boats. >> why are you staying? i think we'll be all right. you think you will be all right? >> yeah. we have 1,000 gallons of water in the boat to keep it down. we'll sit here happy as a fish. >> not recommended. yeah, i know. if they choose to stay, and this is a tough decision they will have to make, there is going to be a time in this area that we're in that it could be up to 72 hours before we can even come down here, and if they yell for help, we can't provide it, which is partly why we give the evacuation orders. >> it is one of the heartbreaking realities for police that once winds reach the sustained level of 45 miles an hour, they cannot and will not respond to emergencies until that wind goes back down again. some of florida's first responders are just back from

another devastating storm, and adriana diaz has more on that. >> as hurricane harvey barreled through texas, units from florida's urban search and rescue rushed toward the storm. over five days they saved nearly 900 people. >> come here princess. and led pets and even a horse to safety. >> that seemed to be the most catastrophic damage i've seen with the hurricane. >> on tuesday rick and team returned from harvey to a hero's welcome in orlando and potentially even a worse storm, irma. >> you are on the front lines. you know what these disasters can be like. how do you feel knowing it can come right here? >> you see it, you know everything that can happen to my house. >> they're getting ready to battle another hurricane. ricolosays he'll take a gift to work that he received after

returning from hurricane harvey from his son. >> daddy, i love you, i missed you. daddy saves me. >> how does that make you feel? a lot of emotions when you see it. >> 40 responders from this area in central florida are standing by, given six hours notice before they're launched, and the storm is expected to arrive here sunday. jeff? >> adriana diaz in orlando. today, florida's governor held off on opening southbound lanes to northbound traffic on interstates because he needed those lanes for trucks delivering supplies, including gasoline. david begnaud now on a dwindling supply. >> if you're running late, it may be too late. >> out of gas. gas stations operating on fumes are shutting off the pumps. >> no, we have gas for four more cars then we have to closely. >> on south miami beach this afternoon this texaco was the only place to buy fuel. how much fuel do you have? >> less than a quarter tank.

and dana and husband were the last ones to get it. >> living right, i guess. michelle se evacuating to tampa. >> all the gas stations in tampa are empty. so far, so good getting here. hopefully it stays that way. >> a lot of stations that had long lines yesterday are clear today because they're either out of fuel or closed shop. this man drove 70 miles looking for fuel. nearly 40 stations in miami and a quarter of those so far north as tal tallahassee are out of g. they're getting help as fuel tankers are arrive big escorts. >> we need you to stay open as long as you can. we'll arrange police escorts for your employees so they can get out safely. >> if you are planning to evacuate tonight and headed up lando, you will want to stop

by pompano service plaza. things are running smoothly. there's no real line, the plaza says they will stay open till maybe midnight up until the florida highway patrol says it's time to shut it down. >> glor: david begnaud, thank you. anthony mason in new york. >> thanks, jeff. predicting damage from a hurricane is a guessing game, of course. a lot depends on which part of the storm hits land. lonnie quinn, chief weather caster at our cbs weather station in new york is here to explain. >> first and foremost, every inch of a hurricane can be dangerous and every hurricane is different. i want to take specifically a look at irma. the bulk has tropical storm force winds over 39 miles per hour, stretching out from the eye about 210 miles on either side of the eye. inside, a band of hurricane force winds, and this is where the winds are sustained above

74 miles per hour, this band extends 70 miles from the eye. then outside of the eye itself, the eye is where you find nice, peaceful air. but outside of the eye is the eye wall, and this is where you find the strongest winds irma has to offer. her 155-mile-per-hour winds are confined to an area 35 miles from the eye. so wherever that eye makes landfall that's where you will get the most devastating damage. keep in mind you can get a stronger gust within the storm. those are sustained winds. it also matters what side of the storm you're on. the worst part is the front right quadrant and the peak winds are made worse by the forward progress to have the storm, also the part of the storm that will spawn the most tornadoes. on the left-hand side of the storm, the winds will be a little bit less and that's because you're not factoring in the forward motion of the storm. the other big concern, we've got to spend time with this, is storm surge. i think it's going to be huge because the rotation of the winds, the front half of the storm is going to surge water on

the east coast of florida. the back half of the storm will surge water on the west coast of florida, and i think it's going to be a big problem, anthony. >> lonnie quinn of wcbs. thanks, lonnie. >> rose: we turn now to politics. there was a rare instance of bipartisanship this week in washington. president trump blindsided congressional republicans in a surprise deal with top democrats chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. the governor agreed to raise the debt ceiling and finance the government through december rejecting proposals from mitch mcconnell, paul ryan and treasury secretary steve my mnuchin. the announcement came a day after the president's decision to end daca. jonathan swan is joining me, political reporter for axios. pleased to have him on this program. let's talk about the daca decision or non-decision.

the republicans didn't do what he wanted them to do. he threw it back to congress. the continuing controversy republicans fear could hurt the election in 2018. speak to that for me. >> so i had a conversation with a source who had spoken to trump on friday last week friday, and this is when, you know, two days before it was written that his decision had been made on daca, he was going to rescind the program but give this sort of six-month window for congress to act. this source came away from the conversation with the president, convinced that his mind was not made up, and daca has been something, i can't speak to why, whether he genuinely feels for these kids who are brought to america through no fought of their own by their parents and, you know, had been shielded temporarily by the obama administration or whether he just understands that the politics and the media for him,

the images of him getting rid of his program will be so bad. but for one or other reason, he has grappled with this in a way that he hasn't grappled with any other policy decision throughout the first eight months of his administration. he has been very reluctant to rescind daca. i think it's still a very open question what happens in six months. there is very little chance congress will deal with this because congress can't deal with anything, and if trump has to revisit it in six months' time, who knows what he'll do. i think we shouldn't assume that trump will rescind this program just because he said he will. >> rose: and why is he hesitant? >> hesitant in what sense? >> rose: to rescind it. i think it's very clear. he is surrounded by people who are telling him -- i mean, look, jared and ivanka, there's a tweet from ivanka just before trump ran for president celebrating the story of an undocumented immigrant.

some of the people he's closest to in the world are telling him about the stories of these young children, saying to him, you know, please protect these children, and trump knows, he often talks about what he can sell and what he can't sell. he knows that his base -- that this is a decision that will appeal to his base, but he also knows that the news cameras and the cable news 24-7 will be rolling on images of young americans who have committed no crime being rounded up and sent around the country, the most heart-rending stories will be put on the newspapers that he reads every morning, and he's aware this is coming down, this is what's inevitable if he does this. he ideally wants to kick this to coming so he doesn't have to take responsibility, but it may well end back up on his desk in six months' time. >> rose: who is urging him to go ahead and rescind it now? >> jeff sessions, the attorney general.

i mean, so trump has been -- i mean, their relationship, you know, effectively died. it will never be what it was but it effectively died about four months ago or whenever it was sessions recused himself from overseeing the investigation into the collusion between russia and the trump administration. sessions have been in the icebox. they haven't been talking one on one. sessions stuck at it. if you saw his face, all you have to do to know why jeff sessions stuck with this administration, look at his face before the press conference announcing he's rescinding daca. he has a boyish grin. sessions lived for this. steve miller, senior white house aid, lived for this. he worked for jeff sessions. when they worked together on capitol hill and the senate and worked to understood mine the bipartisan immigration reform, they were in informal -- it's really a working group with breitbart where steve bannon was running the place. they were basically working

together on stories, they'd push stories about illegal immigrant crime, they did whatever they could to kill that legislation, now it's come a full circle, and this is why sessions took that job, it's to do things like rescind daca. >> rose: so we'll have to wait six months and see what the congress does? >> yeah, i think it's highly unlikely that congress can patch -- i mean, unless the democrats -- well, the democrats have a lot more leverage going into december because donald trump handed them everything they want with a three-month debt ceiling, so i assume the democrats will use daca as leveraging the end of the negotiation of the debt ceiling or government funding but remains to be seen whether they will accept the tough border protection measures that republicans will demand in exchange for what they regard as amnesty. i think it's still a heavy lift. >> rose: and where are mcconnell and rhine on this? >> ryan has been dedicated to

immigration reform. he would like to see this codified into law in some way,, but again, they won't let anything pass without toughen format measures, by border security, e-verify, things of that nature. >> rose: let me turn to the debt deal, are you surprised? >> yes. ( laughter ) yes and no. so not only was i surprised, but all of trump's team was surprised. so they had gained this all out beforehand. they were under the impression that trump and the administration were moving towards a deal of some description with mitch mcconnell and paul ryan. that's what you do when you're a republican president, you deal with your republican leaders on capitol hill. >> rose: and especially if they're in the majority. >> they're in the majority. >> rose: right. but as it's been described to me by multiple people, inside the room, in the oval office, donald trump had a burst of

inspiration, he -- look, there's a lot that's laid the groundwork for this. on a personal level, he can't stand mitch mcconnell. he's fed up with him. he views him as a failed leader, low energy, thinks he's past his prime, on a personal level can't stand him. trump has never liked paul ryan. he's always viewed him as dorky and dislocal, resented that he came out against him after the access hollywood tape during the campaign. they had a bit of a thawing of the relationship earlier in the year, but it was never genuine. trump never had a genuine good will towards paul ryan. people said today, yesterday, trump has been sort of gloating -- gloating is probably the right word -- giddy, almost, about how he has made ryan and mcconnell squirm and he's rubbing it in his faces. he's talking about his deal with chuck and nancy and sort of parading around this deal that

he struck with the two democratic leaders on capitol hill. but as far as i can establish -- and this is from multiple conversations with people around the president -- this was not pre-planned, this was something that he saw in the room, he was frustrated with mcconnell. schumer was playing ball, saying how about we do this, and steve mnuchin, treasury secretary, gave him a bit of a pitch and trump cut him off and sided with chuck schumer. >> rose: so now you have the reaction from the editorial community and the pundits, and some say trump loves the fact that a lot of people like that he did this. he wants to be loved and he likes this response, and it may open the way, may, to the beginning of something new, and he's even suggested that. >> yeah. always reticent to new eras in

trump. he is a day-to-day player. he's governed by his impulses and what's required to get him through the day, what's expedient at the moment. there's not a whole lot of long-range strategic thinking for a lot of his day-to-day moves. one thing that has been consistent for 30 years, he has an insatiable need for media and positive media attention. he doesn't mind media attention but just needs attention and better it positive. he reads the "new york times," "the washington post" every morning, and he was getting really rough coverage after charlottesville, rightly so for saying there were fine people among the white supremacists marching with the tiki torches. yes, people are mocking him for giving away the house to the democrats. but if you look at the "new york times," you know, sort of trump paving the path to

bipartisanship. he gets to look like the big national leader at a time of national crisis with the hurricane. he gets to look above politics and he's never identified with the republican party. he never felt like a republican. i looked at his inaugural address today. it's actually explicitly is presenting himself as an enemy of congress, as running as the anti-dote as to what's here on capitol hill. >> rose: jonathan, thank you so much, pleasure to have you on the program. >> pleasure. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: "the deuce" is a new hbo series from david simon and george pelecanos. the series chronicles the lives of the prostitutes, pimps and police officers working around times square in 1971. it's called substantive, provocative and entertaining, by the "new york times." here's the trailer. ♪ >> scary world out here.

we could own this damn street. >> i'm going to keep what i earn. i don't need you or anybody else to hold my money. >> frankie deals everybody in new york city. >> my twin brother. we don't have the cash to cover his debt. we're going to get it and deliver. >> no late payments, understood. everyone against the van. if i was you gentlemen, i would take any offer that moves your ladies off the pavement. >> and running women off the streets for a while now. the parlors are all paying us. >> but this, not news. we've called audit city corruption before. >> there's been a change. in the law, something about community standards. >> what about community laughter )y new york has none. >> pure innovation. we could turn a dime into a dollar like that. ♪ >> i want to learn how to make

movies. if they could sell that in europe, they can sell it here. >> how do you know? it's america, right? ♪ >> there is going to be an opportunity coming your way. a once in a lifetim lifetime li. >> what am i looking at? your future. when do we start? ♪ >> rose: joining me the two creators and executive producers david simon and george pelecanos and the star maggie gyllenhaal. james franco will join us later in progress, we hope. pleased to have them all here at this table. welcome. where did this idea come from? >> we backed into it. george pelecanos and i were working on the show tremay in new orleans and a guy was on the crew there, he had been researching the crew and made contact with a guy who was a mob front on 42nd street, a barman who ran nightclubs and became

involved in the massage parlors and his brother became involved in other stuff including pornographic films. as soon as we heard it, we were -- this sounds gratuitous, but mark asked us to meet with the fellow. after three hours, george pelecanos and i walked out and pretended to go smoke, even though neither one of us smoked, and we looked at each other and said we're going to do a show about the rise of pornography. >> rose: is that how you saw it? >> yeah, the characters were so rich, we really couldn't ignore it, and, you know, it kind of fit into lot of things we're interested in like labor and gender politics. you know, the labor aspect of it is, in this story, the people doing all the work, is typically true, get the least out of it. you know, they're not working in a factory this time, but they're

selling their own flesh. so that was very interesting to us. it touched on a lot of different themes. >> rose: at the same time, i assume when you go to someone like maggie, she has certain things she wants to make sure it does and doesn't do. yes? >> yeah. i mean, i think that was a part of every conversation we had from the very first time we ever met, you know. for me, it was interesting because i had never been involved in anything where the script wasn't written before we began. so, i mean, we had three out of eight, and they were incredibly well written. i mean, you know, when you're an ac to be -- an actor and you read the scripts and they're sorted through and you're getting the best ones and all of a sudden you read something like this and it's, like, okay this one is exceptional. so i had the impression that we all wanted to say the same thing but i didn't know for sure. >> rose: what did you want to say? >> you know, here's what i wanted to say, i didn't know exactly what i wanted to say going in. i knew that i was interested

in -- that somehow first of all on dined of an instinctive level this woman called to me and the writing called to me. but i also thought, like, aren't you kind of going right to the center of things, playing a sex worker and exploring misogyny? you can explore misogyny from any place, but to play a sex worker who gets involved in porn and just in general to look at being a woman in terms of in relation to sex and in relation to making money, in relation to art, i mean, she's an artist, this character, in relation to your own mind. i mean, playing a prostitute is, like, an interesting way in, but i guess i was a little nervous about it. i mean, in 2017, playing a sex worker is a very delicate thing, and we didn't know each other. >> rose: david simon, was this

something for you this becomes titillating if i failed? >> if that's all it's doing and if it's doing it to any point of gratuity. i was worried about it slipping off to any side, if it becomes prudent and victorian and preachy. we can only allude to what porn and prostitution are, we don't make it plain and brunt, we're moving into pretty woman country of mythologizing and not being direct about what's being sold. on the other hand, if the camera lingers too long or if the point of view is skewed towards gratuity, then you've fallen off the other side of the fence. so landing it was important. >> rose: or finding the balance. >> yeah, maggie made a point, you did it at t.c.a. and when she did it i realized something. >> rose: t.c.a. being

television -- >> i'm sorry, yes. she came out with it and i thought, man, that's smart. she saw it, not us. george pelecanos and i were most concerned about not getting caught up in making porn to critique porn. we saw that as being the real criticism of the show we wanted to address and we wanted to avoid the premise of that. but maggie, you basically noticed that if somebody starts to become titillated by anything on screen and these have become real people, these characters are now fundamentally real and human and you're now engaged in that dynamic of the acquisition of commodified in the film -- >> who's not turned on by sex and sexuality, that's fair enough. if you are turned on and then have to go home with that

person, see them take care of their kids, see what their apartment looks like, see the consequences for that person for the work that they do, then all of a sudden you have to take responsibility for what just turned you on which is just then you're really involved in the show. >> also a story about economics, too, isn't it? >> absolutely, yeah. i mean the one thing, when the fellow started telling us the stories, the one thing i heard as george pelecanos just put it, labor is the product, you know, and, so, you had this industry that had suddenly become street legal pornography, and the laborers are the product and there's no -- to this day, there's no regulation of sex work, obviously, and you have this moment where an industry springs, you know, rapidly into being and these people are the pioneers. so the opportunity to speak and make an al gore about

unincumbered capitalism to me is really special. >> rose: this is a clip in which maggie's character candy telling a pimp telling the man she doesn't need his support. here it is. >> i take care of my own self. as well you should. hey, you're not looking after me. you looking for a date? >> i ain't been nothing but good to you. ( honking ) >> where you going? where you going, baby? >> scary world out here, babe. you could get an arm broke, get cut. this one girl i know thought she could handle it herself. got served a cocktail -- >> threatening me? no, no, just the opposite.

i'm threatening them. not you, babe. >> nobody makes money off me. i don't need anybody else to hold me money. you're busting my groove here. >> money. , money, money, money. yes, ma'am. >> rose: we welcome james franco. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: tell me about the character. we started talking about the soaives what kind of series this was going to be. what brought you to it and tell me about the two characters you play. >> well, i have a long story about how i was brought to it. i was -- i'll say this as quickly as probable, i was on broadway about three and a half yearand years ago and i met with david about a project i ultimately couldn't do. i'm a big fan, i love the wire, my favorite television show, anything else you have in the pipeline? he says i have a show in the '70s, 4 # street, rise of

pornography, but he said everybody wants to do a show about pornography, you know, and they're going to expect sex and, you know, gratuitous nudity, all this stuff. he says, i'm not going to give it to 'em. and i thought, true, you know, knowing david and also knowing david now, he's absolutely -- he and george pelecanos are absolute perfect people to do this show because they're absolutely uninterested in pornography, you know, in itself. you know what i mean? i like to say david's pornography is exposing political corruption and that's like what gets him off. so -- >> takes me a long time. often eight, ten, twelve hours of television. >> rose: a lot of foreplay. yeah. ( laughter ) >> and i thought, okay, that's great.

but i thought, what's so great about all the shows that they've done is they show every different strata that's, you know, intertwaind in whatever summit they're focused on. >> rose: and it's always authentic and real. >> right, and, so that, you know, despite not wanting to short of get into the whatever, grittiness of pornography for itself, that it would have to be a part of the show, and that -- and i thought, you know, just as -- i don't know, a fan of gritty kind of television and film that that would balance out, all the metical corruption. so -- political corruption. so it would be a little entertaining along with the -- >> rose: television is a good place to go. >> yeah, i mean, television is where it's add. television is where the interesting content is. you can't make an independent movie. i mean, you can. ejust did this summer, but it was, like, we had nothing.

i was literally changing my clothes in the bathroom on the set in the staten island ferry. we had nothing. here you have what you need, you can tell interesting stories. >> rose: you can find an hour and a half. >> true. i don't think candy's story would really work in an hour and a half. i wouldn't buy it. >> you would be using shorthand for everything. >> yeah. now your characters as well. the whole arc of these two brothers, both of them, twin brothers. there's no character that can't be made more human by time. >> rose: wider and deeper. yeah, wider and deeper. that was the other thing that excited me about this is the fact that it was on television. there is a book called "difficultmen" that got some facts about david's private life wrong but they really laid out, you know, what's been called, like, the third golden age of television i guess starting with

the sopranos and the wire an shows like that and it just became so clear to me that as soon as they started doing fewer episodes because they're on cable or streaming networks, you could spend more money on episodes, the writers were then able to arc a whole season because they weren't incumbered with 20-plus episodes a season, so they didn't have to kind of go episodically. they could plan everything out a season in advance, or a series in advance as they've done this series. >> although the other incredible thing which i never experienced before is okay we had three scripts, started to shoot. i know you had lots of ideas of how you wanted to tell the story, but i also felt you guys responding to me, you know, it changed and the ideas changed and who candy was changed. we were having a dialogue in the relationship. >> rose: is that rare?

i don't know. >> rose: it was rare for you. i had never done it before. i did the honorable woman, a television thing, completely written and directed by one person and we shot that as if it were a big movie. we cross boarded it, meaning sometimes we would shoot episode one and eight in the same day. it was entirely completed before we started. but this, i don't know, i felt like we were in conversation all the time, not explicitly, but, like, i'd read something, it felt in direct relation to the way something had been played and, i don't know, i loved that. >> rose: george pelecanos? well, that's the way we work. i mean, the thing is don't get scared because if you thought about it too much that you hadn't written the shows yet while you're shooting you would get shook up, but i don't believe in overoutlining a novel either. i like the discovery of -- and the ability to change. >> rose: you want to know where you plan to go. >> we have a destination in mind but there's a lot of things to get there that we want to

explore and in the moment. i mean, we brought them in as partners, first of all, which is also unusual. >> rose: partners as producers? >> yeah,. >> rose: and you directed a couple of episodes. >> yes. >> rose: and you as well -- no, he did it beautifully, i think. >> they both read the scripts before published. we had notes from maggie. maggie would call me up at my apartment before scenes. it was smart and it was helpful. >> when you start a project, there's a biofeedback that results. actors take the roles and suddenly you have dailiys coming at you every day and you're sealing colors that you didn't anticipate and other things you thought might be there are not what you thought they would be, and it's important as you're building a universe to react to that and to take into account. so it's not even -- some of this stuff is, as you say, planned and why don't we try this and

thinking it through and arguing and debating, but some of it is just, you know what? the show is showing us a different direction. if you have all eight written in advance you're a little vulnerable. but you have to know where you're going. ultimately you have to know the point of the piece. thousand to get there can be an adventure is that if somebody says tell me five reasons why "wired" was so successful, good scripting, acting, those are essential things, but what is it that made "wired" so -- >> i think it's about something more than what's the overt theme on hbo and cable in general. so to take a show not my own, you watch the sopranos, is sopranos is magnificent not just because it's a gangster story, it's about family, it's also about an empty hole at the core of the country, this sort of

empty space that sort of the inquisitive, you know, he who dies with the most toys part of america can't fill. so, okay, if you're watching it just to see who got what could sunday night, you're seeing one level of the sopranos, but the reason it was resident is it was so much more. the wire was a critique of this divided america, of the fact that we have two separate americas, they're traveling along the same path but really not quite connected anymore. >> rose: what's the critique in "the deuce"? >> an opportunity to discuss gender politics which we've done very little of. but as we were filming this, we felt like there was something to be said about the culture of pornography and how it was almost this defining example of

unincumbered capitalism and we thought, you know, there is an interesting economic story here about anybody will say markets will determine the value and profit is the measure for measuring what kind of society you build. take a look, watch this product get made and marketed. so we felt like that was there. the thing that got added when we were filming is we were filming during this election cycle with trump and clinton, and that was -- all of a sudden, i started to feel like, you know what? capitalism is one thing, but misogyny, the fact that this is so ingrained in the culture, you know, the fact that he was able to run through that moment, you know, through the pussy-grabbing moment and become president of the united states says all you want to know about who we are as men and women.

>> rose: what does it say about who we are? >> that and what's directed at clinton and what's directed at almost every woman in public life, you know. my wife is a novelist, but if you're an essayist, journalist, novelist, artist, public figure of any kind and you try to opine or assert in the public realm your ideas, what comes back to you in the comment sections, on twitter, how men got to the point where they felt even anonymously they could talk about women this way, you can't tell me that doesn't have something to do with the last 50 years of pornography becoming ubiquitous and more and more -- >> rose: flesh as product? yeah. i mean, i think in some basic way, something's been transformed in terms of how men and women look at each other, especially how men look at women and what they feel entitled to, and i think this last election

cycle really defined that in a way that surprised -- i mean, here i am working on a show about misogyny and this is going on. >> rose: in 2016 and 2017. yeah. and we were on set and talking about it. >> yeah, i think we thought we were in a different place than we were, and after the results of the election, it was, you know, it was laid bare, it was all on the table the level of misogyny we're living with every day, you know, and you can't make a show about porn without some aspect of it exploring misogyny. that doesn't mean that's all there is in a show about porn or all there is in pornography but that's a big element of it and it's kind of an amazing time now that i think we've all been forced to take a look at where we really are in a lot of was but let's -- but let's talk about terms of misogyny in

america, it's such a time to talk about the show where that's such a major theme. >> rose: any relation to charlottesville and racism here? >> if you ask me politically what's going on at this moment in the country, i would say the backlash against women and people of color is distinctly linked in the sense of -- you know, in the most optimistic way we can imagine putting it. i think we're looking at the moment which is the last primal scream of white males in this society. the last moment of i just lived through eight years of a president of color, you're now asking me to buy in on a female president, and i'm going to go kicking and screaming because what was mine, what i perceived to be my status and privilege within the culture is now being laid bare as being entirely vulnerable and i'm fighting back, and i don't think you can divorce that from the phenomenon

that is donald trump. >> rose: how do you write that? ( laughter ) >> well, if any character said what i just said, we would have taken him off the page. >> rose: right. we come from an era where pornography for us was a playboy, a copy of playboy, which is basically looking at a picture of a woman's breasts. but the same kid today opens his laptop -- >> rose: sees whatever he wants to see. >> everything, including violent images against women. it can't help but permeate the psyche of the culture, and this is where we start is the beginning of it. >> but i think -- can i say an example of how you wrote it? there's this scene in the second episode where i go to make a porn and instead of cum they use potato soup and a turkey baster

and they squirt it all over me and this other woman's face, campbells potato soup, and i can't think of a more degrading image. it's also funny, kind of, like in a sick way, totally exploitive, and at the same time my character is, like, taking it because that's what she's used to and she can handle it and she's totally mesmerized by the lights that they're using to shoot the porn with and the frame of the camera because she's never seen anything like it before and actually she's a filmmaker. so in that one little image which is funny, which is awful and actually kind of heartbreaking and weirdly, strangely kind of like an opening up of this woman in this other way, you have actually said kind of what we're talking about without having to write, like, the political monologue you just gave. that's how you write it. that's one way. >> i don't know if my mom will

watch the show, but she watches charlie rose, so now i've got to go home and explain to dorothy simon -- >> no, now your mom is definitely not going to watch the show and neither is mine. >> rose: we love you here. the scene was written by richard price, i want to credit him. >> my mom will definitely watch this show. >> rose: because of you or me. because of this description. >> rose: because of what we're talking about. >> yeah. >> rose: even better. >> rose: tell me about your characters. >> i play identical twins. one is the more responsible of the brothers, and the other is just a guy who doesn't think about consequences and has never thought about them his whole life. >> rose: always depending on his brother. >> yeah, and the irresponsible one basically gets in trouble. he's in debt to the mob, and they the mafia goes to the responsible brother and asks --

you know, they basically tell them you better bail him out or something bad's going to happen, and that kind of starts the chain of events that pulls first the responsible brother vincent and then frankie into this whole underworld that was kind of opening up that is kind of traced to the mayor at the time, mayor lindsey who was trying to make the streets of new york look, you know, clean because he was running for president and, so, he made some back room deal with the mob that if they took the prostitution off the street and put it indoors, they wouldn't be bothered. so vincent and frankie kind of get pulled into that world as front men for that. >> rose: here's a conversation between the two brothers right here. >> boo! hey.

how about a ginger ale i ale? >> hey, brother. working stiff. >> (bleep) you man. queens. still betting? winning. my $4,000. >> let me see. he was sitting at the bar stool a couple of hours ago looking for you, wanting 30 large. >> tommy came to you? because you were in queens. (bleep). >> no, franky. this is going to by your ignorant -- >> i always said you was no fun, you proved it. >> ma ruined you. there you go. >> rose: what's the most interesting thing about your character, candy? >> i guess if i had to pick one

thing i guess, yeah, she's a sex worker and, you know, that's her job, but i think she's also really an artist and surprised by being an artist, and the way she finds out she's an artist is by going to someone's basement and making a porn, an it wakes her up in a way she can't put back to sleep. >> does it seem late in the run where you're trying to explain to the guy with the camera that he's doing it wrong and he's basically throwing the trougho hitchcock dialect of how the camera should move. she hasn't read that but knows it instinctively. we had a lot of fun with that. you said never mind mr. truffle, or whoever. never mind the textbook, i can see that that's wrong, that was the artist in it.

yeah. >> rose: great to see you. yeah. >> rose: great to see you. thank you. >> rose: thank you, george pelecanos. pleasure to have you. thank you, david. >> happy t to be back. "the deuce" airs sunday nights 9:00 p.m. on hbo. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> economic nationalism is what the country was build on goavment back to that, look after our own, our citizens, our manufacturing base and this country will be greater and more united and powerful than it's ever been. that's not astrophysics. that's every nationality, race, preference. as long as you're an american citizen, you're part of the populist, economic nationalist movement and by the way that's 65%, 70% of the country and we'll question that. that's where the smart guys in the democratic party understand it.

tim ryan get this, this folks around schumer get this, they're trying to get the identity politics out. the only question is left or right wing populism. >> rose: you said that. and that is the question to be answered in 2020. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

♪ >> lel low and welcome to kqed news room. i'm thuy have you. on this program a look at immigration policy. we'll talk to california attorney general about how he plans to help roughly 200,000 young people facing possible detatid deand a look at the life of civil rights leader de lore res horta. first, an obama era immigration policy is being threatened by the trump administration. on tuesday attorney general jeff sessions