>> rose: welcome to the -- welcome to the program, charlie rose is on assignment. tonight we begin with tennis great maria sharapova. >> as part of the process of writing this book, i started by looking at all the journals i have been writing since i was a young girl and a lot of them were just these repetitive words that i'm going to do well, i'm going to defeat this player, i'm going to play well, i'm going to concentrate, i'm going to focus, and i was probably eight or nine years old while i'm writing these words. no one made me keep a journal or told me what to say. it was sort of this self-esteem confidence i put on paper and in my mind and i never shared it with anyone else. >> we continue with will dean, creator of the tough mudder competition. >> the reason we have been successful is because we have this mission and the mission is

creating community based on teamwork, camaraderie, overcoming obstacles. i think one of the central lessons whether or not you want to become an nearpt or not is this idea that great companies have a purpose above and beyond making money. >> we conclude with part four of charlie's interview with steve bannon. >> economic nationalism is what the country was built on, the american system. we go back to that, look after our own, our citizens, after our manufacturing base and this country will be greater, more united and powerful than it's ever been. this is not astrophysics. that's every nationality, race, religion, every sexual u are part of this populistn,e a economic nationalist movement and, by the way, that's 65, 70% of the country and we will get that. >> sharapova, tough mudder and steve bannon when we continue.

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: maria sharapova is here. she is a five-time grand slam tennis cham champion. one to have the world's most recognizable athletes, ranked number one five different occasions in her career. 2016 she was suspended from competition for two years after testing positive for banned

substance. the consequence was cut short after the panel found she didn't intend to cheat. she wrote a back called "unstoppable: my life so far." i'm pleased to have maria sharapova back. >> thank you. >> rose: a year ago, a very different time. >> a very different time. i remember this table and setting. it was my first interview. >> rose: tell me what's happened that you look to as sort of instinctive of where your future is. >> yeah. well, the first step of being back, back on the court, back playing has been incredible. it's what i wanted back when i was at this table. it's what i looked forward to, that competition that i miss so much of playing the game that, you know, that i have been doing since i was a young girl and getting that back in april is extremely special. certainly i've had my ups and downs with injuries since that and having that memorable u.s. open just a couple of weeks ago.

>> rose: why was it memorable? memorable for a few reasons. one because i hadn't played at the u.s. open in a few years because of the suspension and previous injuries, and it was the first grand slam back after 19 months, and there is just something more in the air. there is just something, there's a sense of excitement, there's nothing like going out and playing a primetime match at the u.s. open. >> rose: then you beat the number two seed. >> i beat the number two seed. i felt -- i came home to the hotel room after that match and felt happy. it was a really good feeling to have. the next day, didn't get much sleep. it was a late-night match after the press, after the treatment that you do and the recovery, you go to bed at 2:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m., i didn't want the sleep, i was so happy. >> rose: then what happened? then i went on the fourth round. >> rose: what happened to the game? >> what happened to the game? it was a physical match and, in the end, i just didn't have

enough. i didn't play smart. i felt like usually in those situations find myself playing with instinct, but i didn't feel like i had enough match play to really feel that yeah. um, it was sad. i wouldn't say upset. i understood the situation -- >> rose: which was your first tournament back. >> yeah, it would have been my first grand slam back. >> rose: why? i understood the circumstance and knew it was a tough decision and therefore i couldn't be upset about it. i think i was sad because i wanted to be there and because the tournament is so special. when you're a two-time champion at that event and it's a tournament you really want to come back at as a grand slam, it was disappointing, but i understood it. >> rose: so can you say now to me, look, i had a tough time, i

had to face a difficult issue, i had to be away from tennis, and now i'm back, i just beat the number two seed at the u.s. open, i feel good about my health, i feel good about my game, i feel good about my future, i'm 30 years old -- >> i feel like this is a life lesson. >> rose: a what? a life lesson. >> rose: yeah, you do. it is. i mean, very much so. i've overcome a lot in the last couple of years, and we talked about it in depth last time i was here, and it was a difficult time. it brought out a lot of emotions, a lot of uncertainties, and i faced it head on, and i'm on the other side of it. >> rose: that's my question, are you on the other side? >> i am. i feel like i am. i feel that i've moved on. i feel that i've -- just being out on the court, it takes away everything else that goes on around me because it's just me

and what i have to do. >> rose: are you happiest on the court? >> yeah, i love it there. rose: when you look ahead, is there any part of your game that still needs sharpening? >> a lot. a lot of things that i can take from the open, brave point opportunities, conversionings, serving smart, not giving them free points, being a little bit more consistent. i thought i moved pretty well after not playing for a long time, so that was a positive because, you know, the body has been struggling a little bit since i came back, but overall, yeah, i'm pretty happy with the future. >> rose: thinking about young women and young men who are just getting into tennis, where nobody hardly as young as you were. you went away to tennis academy between 7 and 9 years old away from russia and home to florida. >> right. >> rose: looking at the experience you've had sip since then, tell us how important your foot work is.

how important is the way you move on the court to becoming a first-rate player? >> it proved to be very important in the later stages. >> you're 6'2 inches. i am. movement is a huge part of tennis. so many quick steps. you see so many players sliding on the courts. ton hard courts. on the clay courts i slide here and there but on the hard courts i barely do that if at all. but you see a lot of players doing that. it's become quicker and faster. some of the surfaces such as the grass court the game has slowed down, the grass relies more on being in the point, getting yourself in the point than the serve and return you real lecounted on a lot. you still do but not as much as as in 2004 when i won it. >> rose: who's the most important influence on your tennis today? >> a lot of people. i think everyone, as i grow older, you know, you realize in

every stage of your career you need different influences and different people, and what you needed as a teenager from a coach is very different to what you need today. >> rose: how is that? i think, when you're young, you need more -- you know, you need a little bit more discipline, get your mind in the right direction. >> rose: is it somehow what they call a parent? >> its might be, but i always thought i've matured and i've realized that if it's not you who wants it then no one else will for you. but the team -- >> rose: parents can't give you that. you have to want it. >> you have to want it. they can want it as much as they can. >> rose: why you? and back to, you know, this "my life so far," what was it inside of you that maude you want it? was it that you loved it? it wasn't just winning for you. you wanted to defeat.

>> it's -- >> rose: it's a killer instinct or a variation of that. >> as part of the process of writing this book, i started by looking at all the journals i have been writing since i was a young girl and a lot of them were just these repetitive words that i'm going to do well, i'm going to defeat this player, i'm going to play well, i'm going to concentrate, i'm going to focus, and i was probably eight or nine years old while i'm writing these words. no one told me to keep a journal. no one told me what to say. it was sort of this self-esteem confidence that i put on paper and in my mind and i never shared it with anyone else. so i think it was -- i don't know, i know i got an incredible opportunity. i think i realized it. even though i didn't -- my parents didn't necessarily put that pressure on me, i wanted to deliver for them. >> rose: what's interesting here, too, is that you suggest -- you were not the quickest. >> no. i'm still not. >> rose: and you're still not.

not the fastest. >> not the fastest. >> rose: but you have stamina, or you've had stamina. >> right. >> rose: the capacity to come after it stroke after stroke after stroke after stroke. >> it's, like, the repetition and the habit that you create with repetition. it was, like, when my mother was making me memorize lines from russian poets, i was too young to understand what they even meant, but for her it was like a lesson that this is difficult and hard for you and you might not know its meaning but the fact that you are in your mind reworking these lines and phrases and paragraphs and you're memorizing them, i developed a sense of discipline that ultimately take you to the court when you have to hit 500 balls at a time. >> rose: and you also paid tribute to nelson mandela for this idea that it's not so much -- what's more important in life is the capacity to get up when you fall because you will inevitably fall. >> that is the quote that i start with in the book, yeah. i had that in my mind as i was

writing the book, i mean, i love reading and i know that when you open a book there's either a quote or a passage and a dedication and, so, i thought every page of that book would be important, and i remember exactly where i contributed to each page. >> rose: how much does all the attention, all the recognition, all the time you spend on branding and the companies you have, how much time does that take away from the betterment of your tennis game? >> i wouldn't say it takes away i think it gives me a chance to step back and do things that are different to what i do. because when you're in your world which for me is an athlete's world, a tennis player's world, you're so -- you're in this bubble, you're always around the same people. you know your team. and you really get out of it. it's great in so many ways because your focus and

determination goes on to this one thing and one path, but i do think it's important to branch out, and things that you want to work on and things that you want to be a part of, and i want to grow. >> rose: you're not going to play tennis all your life? >> no, i started when i was so young. i know that will be the best thing i know how to do, but that shouldn't limit me from wanting to grow in other areas of my life. >> rose: you went to so muchy after cher -- to sochi after chernobyl. you said if that hadn't happened your life would be different. >> yes. >> rose: how would that have been? >> i think my parents would continue still living in belarus which is a very poor country, and i certainly wouldn't be playing tennis or living in the united states. so i would say very different. >> rose: part of this book is serena who just had a baby. >> yes. >> rose: characterize the competition because i'm not sure what the latest is but at one point it was 19-2 in favor of

serena. >> yeah. >> rose: did she have your game, your number better than anybody or is she simply that good? >> i think it's both of those things, definitely. >> rose: she has your game, in part. >> yeah. >> rose: she knows how to win against you? >> yes. yes. and there are many things she does better than i do, yeah. >> rose: well, tick them off. tick them off. ( laughter ) >> rose: what do you do better than she? >> what do i do better than she? >> rose: yeah. i think a lot of that is intangibles. >> rose: yeah. i think she hits harder than i do, even though i'm an aggressive player. she serves better than i do. yeah, i mean, there are a lot of things, yeah. >> rose: how much of the game for you is mental? >> the game of tennis, a lot of it is mental. >> rose: when we say that, what do we mean? >> when i think of mental -- >> rose: the will to win, for sure. >> yeah, i mean, i think the mental aspect are things that you don't -- you're not able to

write down. the mental aspect of being in a situation when it's tie break and third set, those are not things your coach can teach you. you begin playing by instinct. a lot of tennis and sports are run by numbers and there are facts and statistics and game plans and you know where they're most likely going to serve based on their patterns. but when you get to that situation, you rely on your mind, your reaction, your experience, and that's all mental. those are not -- those are not numbers, because i always have this debate with my coach because, you know, he's very much a numbers guy as well and, you know, he pulls out the tablet, shows me all the statistics and says tennis is very much about numbers, and i say, well, there are a lot of things that if you measure me against other players, if you take me to the gym and tell me to use these weights, squats, sprints or take me on the

treadmill for this length, i will not win against anyone, but i can go on the court and beat them. if you measure me against those numbers, you'd think i have no chance. >> rose: so what's the difference? >> that i have this will and that i have this ability to know that it's not just about power, it's not just about strength, it's not just about endurance. >> rose: it's about the mind and the will to win and the ferociousness of your mental attitude? >> i think also knowing it's not about perfection. you know, it's not always about being great. something i say in the book, it's, like, there are only a few handful of times in my career where i felt like i finished the match and it was flawless, that i've things happened according to plan and i hit the patterns and i knew exactly what i wanted to do, but so many times i came off the court and i felt like i played terrible. i made a lot of mistakes, but what did i do to end up being on the winning end of things?

and that's what you -- those are the matches that give me confidence. >> rose: you should read, and i'm plugging the book because i read it and i thought it said something that's really incredible about him, tom brady, quarterback for the patriots, got a new book out called tb12, i think. >> is it the diet book? >> rose: it's more than a diet book. it's really an exercise book but it's also an attitude book and basically the sense he was not the top draft pick, he never started -- in college or in the pros, when he was expected to be the starting quarterback. >> yeah. >> rose: he worked his way up. yeah. >> rose: he was never the fastest, he never had the strongest arm. >> no. >> rose: he had none of those things. now, he worked on all of those things. >> yeah, you have to. >> rose: but he started out simply knowing that he had to overcome differences in people who were more athletically gifted, had certainly been described as having more potential than he did at the

time but he is now probably the greatest quarterback perhaps ever to play in the national football league because of the same thing you're talking about. >> yeah, i agree. >> rose: and the capacity to learn, and the capacity to be disciplined -- >> and to want to. i think it's a choice that we want to learn. >> rose: yeah. it's not like -- >> rose: somebody's forcing you to learn. >> yeah, i think that's what makes those athletes great is they choose to want to get up in the morning and learn and get better and know and accept their weaknesses. one of the shifts i had in my career was also realizing what those were in order for me to improve on them and get me better. >> rose: you won wimbledon when you were 18. >> 17. >> rose: 17. but 17, grand slam, wimbledon, how many years ago -- 13 years ago. has it worked out the way you wanted it to work out? if not, how do you hold yourself

spoons snbl. >> snbl -- responsible? think as a young girl i knew wimbledon and the u.s. open was the top of the top and that's where i saw myself and wanted to do really well. i wanted to hold those trophies, i wanted those championships. but what i really wanted, i wanted to get through the day and i wanted to feel like everything in that day, i did the best that i could. something in my mind -- and i also believe it's the discipline i learned from an early age is you put a string of those days together and you will get there. so i never had -- i never set a plan for myself, and i don't think -- it's just not the way i -- >> rose: so at that time when you were 17 and won wimbledon, maria, what's the most important thing in life? my guess is you would say winning tennis tournaments. if i ask you at 30, maria, what's the most important thing in your life?

what would you say? >> people. >> rose: people, really? yeah. >> rose: relationships. elationships with people. understanding -- >> rose: are you good at that? i could always improve on that, yeah, definitely, but it fascinates me. i love understanding and speaking to people and picking their brain and i think that's really valuable, the people that you hold in your circle, the friends and the family, those are the people that are with you, and i learned that very well in the last few years. >> rose: and how did you learn that? >> through experiences, through how they're able to lift you up when you're -- when you don't have anything. >> rose: do you believe that you could have been perhaps a better friend or a better teammate or a better any of those things but you were so focused on winning that you didn't allow that relationship quality to bloom? >> absolutely, definitely, yeah. yeah, absolutely. i've always been very career

driven and i think that's certainly -- it's been a limiting factor and particularly in relationships, definitely. >> rose: it's been a factor in relationships because you were so obsessed by winning. >> not necessarily winning but doing everything that i, in the future, do not have regrets because i don't like living with regrets. >> rose: so looking ahead, what's possible? >> many things. >> rose: and, so, what are you hopeful about other than better relationships?% >> i'm getting better. >> rose: grand slam wins? yeah, those are definitely there. the commitment. you know, i hope for continued commitment for myself, the effort. >> rose: does it get harder? because there are more choices now? >> no. no. i think -- i mean, i've had a lot of choices in my career. i've had to make a lot of

choices, and i've always chosen to be an athlete, and that's what's given me the biggest satisfaction, and something i know the best, because i've done it for so long is that and you do the best. i once asked ted williams for example why baseball? he said because i did it well early on. people said, gee you're good, i wanted to be better. the more they said i was better, i wanted to be even better. people like doing things they're good at. >> yeah. >> rose: and one of the great early things we should all probably achieve is find something that we have great natural instinct and skills for. >> it's not easy, though. i was fortunate my parents helped me with that, that someone like martina who was able to see a talent in me when i was only five years old or the fact that my father was able to pave this way for me and find the right people for me that guided me letterly to this stage

of center court at wimbledon. >> rose: unstoppable, my life so far, maria sharapova. and there she is, too, right there. how old were you then? >> seven. this is my first year in florida. >> rose: this is with nick bolnickbollettieri? >> yes, and my dad cut my hair there and it looks awful. >> rose: much success. come back to see me anytime. >> thank you very much. thanks for having me. >> rose: back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: and now about tough mudder, the extreme obstacle course racing industry has quickly become a $250 million business. leading the pack is will dean, founder and c.e.o. of tough mudder, with obstacles like electroshock therapy, tougher is the toughest on the planet. a look at tough mudder. >> take advantage of this moment. this course today it's about taking on your fears.

that's what all these challenges are, and when you cross that finish line, if you did this right, you will have that feeling. >> this is something bigger than me, bigger than i normally do. being outdoors, i get to run, climb, jump, i get to do everything. >> oh, it's a team building activity. it's all about having fun and getting close as a group. >> my first one, i was really scared, but they've really gotten me through it. >> i cannot imagine a greater group of people. >> this is definitely not anything out of the ordinary that i would go choose to do on a normal saturday in my life. >> it's awesome. i would not be able to make it through the whole thing without these guys next to me. >> you are the baddest of the bad. if you can finish a tough

mudder, why not try it out. >> rose: dean's new book gives readers the idea of what it takes to grow a successful business. it is called it takes a tribe, building a tough mudder movement. pleased to have him at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: how did tough mudder start? >> it started at a triathlon where the zipper on my wet suit jammed and i turned to the guy next to me in this race, neither of us were in any danger winning it, i said will you pull on the zipper, and the guy so focused on his own time said no. i said, i wonder if i could create an event that's less selfish and less about the individual and more about the team. i was getting my degree at harvard and i entered the business plan competition. my professor said it's terrible. we persevered, had our first event in 2010. we've now had 3 million people worldwide do the event. >> rose: describe the event.

it's not a race. it's challenge, teamwork and camaraderie. it's military-style obstacles. we have a 5k going up to the world's toughest mudder which is the 24-hour nonstop mudder that takes place in the nevada desert is that but what is it about it? >> it's all about team, community, bringing people together. we live in this age where more and more of us are connected by social media, we look at each other's lives online but spend less time interacting with other people, being a part of a team. tough mudder is a challenge you can be proud of. >> rose: that's the point. i would have thought harvard business school professors understand how team is the essential of successful business enterprises. and if this builds team, it would seem to me that they would in fact endorse it right away. >> well, the problem is this strange englishman. he knows nothing about putting on events which i can understand. they're probably worried about the liability part is that they

only looked at it as a business proposition. >> i think more at the time the conventional wisdom was races have to be races, there has to be a winner and everyone has to be timed, ranked, jujtd. the idea you just do something for the hell of it was alien at the time. >> rose: does it matter if you finish? >> most people get through it. a few don't. the vast majority do. but what doesn't matter is the course time. some take all day. >> rose: finishing brings a certain amount of pride. >> absolutely. >> rose: that they have been able to do it. >> correct. i think people are proud. one of the things i'm most proud of are the people who write me after the events and say things like i was getting bullied at work, and i went to work with my orange band on full of confidence and told my boss you don't get to speak to me like that anymore i'm a tough mudder. they challenge themselves and take it into other parts of their lives. >> rose: why do they want to do it? >> i think people want to push themselves, try out new things

and be big part of something bigger than themselves. if you see someone wearing a tough mudder shirt, you will probably high five them and the idea you're probably part of something that's bigger than themselves. >> rose: they can get it on the track when they finish? >> at the track after the event. many go away and go to a local tattoo shop and say get me the logo and send us a picture of it they're so proud. >> rose: where do you want to go? >> we started in the core events business. >> rose: seven years ago. that's right, now moving into the training space. we have tough mudder boot camps expanding across the u.s., taking the idea of community and bringing it into a gym environment, team training. we're also doing a lot in the media space. we have several different prod cast deals around the world. we're growing our sponsorship business. we started as an events company, becoming a sports media and entertainment company but also a global tribe. >> rose: the title is it takes

a tribe. >> yep snoold what does that mean? >> for me it was the story to create a company that i believe, you know, the reason we have been successful is because we have this mission and the mission underpinning everything is creating this community based upon these values of tea teamwo, camaraderie, overcoming obstacles. one of the central lessons whether or not you want to become an entrepreneur or not is this idea that great companies have a purpose above and beyond making money. tough mudder i don't say will cure cancer but we're getting people off the couch and living active lives. >> rose: where might it go. gyms, tv. the great thing, some of the events are competitive. the vast majority of the tv is storytelling. the everyday heroes. we're expanding internationally. we're in asia, we're in ten countries soon to be 20 countries. you're in the media, add in the new event concepts. we have a 5k, half, full, tougher, toughest and the

world's toughest. we have the events business, media business and the training business. >> rose: how many of these came from ideas you learned as a counterterrorism officer in the british services? >> i think the idea of teamwork, comrade ri, not letting other people fail, the idea that for you to succeed others have to succeed, and very little we achieve in any walk of life is a genuine individual accomplishment. almost everything is based upon team. i think it was essential to the five years i spent there, i wanted to take the ideas and use them in a business context. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you for having me. >> rose: will dean, co-founder and c.e.o. of tough mudder, "it takes a tribe," the story of building the tough mudder movement. back in a moment. stay with us. >> rose: you accept no responsibility for the failures of this administration? >> i didn't say that. failures?

eight months in, give me a failure. obama didn't have obamacare for the first eight months. if cassidy graham can go through, he may have obamacare quasi repealed and replaced in the first nine months of the administration. you're holding him to an unfair standard. on the economy, it's 3% growth. unemployment is all time low and by the way it's donald trump that has to keep telling people that because the mainstream media won't report it because it's donald trump being successful. this is back to my case. they're not out there to defeat him but to destroy him. on daca the other day, i don't agree with the daca decision but i understand how he struggled with it and he said last night in a tweet, he would re-think it. trust me the guy's in the far right, the guys on the conservative side are not happy. all last night, all cnn, msnbc and the main stream media is to

destroy donald trump. >> rose: can i remind you -- there is nothing he can do, charlie, knotting. >> can i remind you, a good catholic, that cardinal doland is opposed to what's happening with daca. >> the catholic church have been terrible about this. >> rose: okay. the bishops have been terrible about this, you know why, because unable to really -- to come to grips with the problems in the church, they need illegal aliens. they need illegal aliens to fill the churches. it's obvious on the face of it. that's what the entire catholic bishops condemning, they have an economic interest. they have an economic interest in unlimited immigration, unlimited illegal immigration. >> rose: tough thing to say about your church. >> as much as i respect cardinal doland and the bishops on doctrine, this is not doctrine. i totally respect the pope and

the catholic i bishops and cardinals on doctrine. this is not about doctrine. this is about the sovereignty of a nation, in that regard they're just another guy with an opinion. >> rose: you have a media image. i'm more interested in how you think of yourself. you said a lot of things. think of you as a barbarian. think of you as almost a leninist at one point. tell me how you think of yourself. you think of yourself as an historical character with historical opportunity. >> no, phil rucker in "the washington post" a week ago said bannon is the only person in trump's inner circle that thinks donald trump is truly a global revolutionary figure, historical, and i believe that.

i have been blessed to work on the campaign and one of the seniored advisers in the white house and to see a truly historical figure. he's a guy if he sees through, if he sees through the program that he laid out, he'll be truly one of the greatest presidents in the history of -- >> rose: you have in fact yourself said with respect to china that if, in fact, i can wage effective economic warfare against the chinese, 100 years from now we might very well see the triumph of western -- >> i said something very different. this is what i said -- in 100 years, they're going to look back at this time and the only thing they're going to remember -- >> rose: about you. -- no, the only thing they will remember us about, about who was in the government and this generation, the one thing they will remember, the one thing that will be historically is important is how we engage the chinese in this great strug

fortunately who's going to be a hedge power. i actually believe that. the long sweep of history -- by the way, you can't understand brexit or 2016 unless you understand the context of that. the contextual framework of that is china. it's the exporting of chinese deflation and the exporting of chinese overcapacity, okay, that destroyed the midland heartland of england and the upper midwest of the united states. that is the context. by the way, it's going to drive 18, it's going to drive '20, it's going to be at the forefront of our discussion. the 301, this, you know, action president trump is taking to try to actually revert their forced technology transfers to take away our innovation from silicon valley, okay, that is what is going to be looked at as the single biggest shot and reverse the economic warfare china's had

on us, the beginning of the reversal. i think it will take many decades to work this through. i'll tell you one thing, and i've got a pretty good track record of being able to see over the next hill, is the situation with china, our relationship with china, how we balance that relationship will drive politics for the next couple of cycles. >> rose: politics. yes, american politics. >> rose: because of its impact on the economy? >> absolutely. you see it in bernie sanders and sharrod brown, already, you see that they understand that the fact lis went to china. j.d. vance when he was here talked to me about the study. when the factories went to china, there is a direct correlation of opioid addiction among the factory workers. >> rose: the factories left and they turned to drugs? >> you can't flip burgers in burger king for too long. they have no jobs. the jobs are not there, the unemployment is there, the sense of desperation where not only can you not only take care of

your own family, you can't set up something for your children and grandchildren. >> rose: how do you want to be perceived today because you have a media image? >> i'm a street fighter. >> rose: more than that? i think i'm a street fighter. breitbart, our watch word inside breitbart is fights that matter. #war. we like to engage people and fight. i'm a fighter. i think that's why donald trump and i get on so well. donald trump is a fighter, great counterpuncher, he will not stop. he's releaptless, you saw it in the campaign, the primaries, the general election, he's a fighter, and he's a fighter -- he's a fighter for the american working man and they understood that. i am going to be his wing man outside for the entire time to protect -- >> rose: so you will not be attacking donald trump. >> no. our purpose is to support donald trump. >> rose: and destroy his

enemies? >> tomake sure his enemies know that there is no free shot on goal. after the charlottesville situation, i was the only guy who defended him. i was the only guy who said he's talking about something, taking it to a hiring level. where does this all go? does it end in taking down the washington monument. >> rose: i tell you where many people suggest it should have gone, it should have gone in terms of denouncing specifically from the very beginning neo-nazis and white supremacists and people of that political view, and it should have gone there because those were people that americans in world war ii went to fight against, and he should have instantly have denounced them, and you didn't at first instinct. in fact, you seemed to be doubling down in terms of a moral equivalency. >> i think he does -- i think he does see an equivalent. many antifa which has come out

as a domestic terrorist organization, they were there to pick a fight. what he was trying to say people who support the monument staying there peacefully and poe peopleo oppose that are part of the first amendment. but the neognatsias and white supremacist, no room in american politics for that. he said there are faults on both sides, also anarchists, also there for destruction and looking for a fight also. that's what he's at a saiing. he took it to hiring level the next day. the american people support him. 62% of the people in the polling that week, charlie, said they agree that the monuments that stay there ought to be a local thing, 88% of the republican party. donald trump said does it end at taking down the washington monument, mt. rushmore, churchill's bust out of the oval office? my problem -- my problem, and i etold general kelly this, when

you side with a man, you side with im. i was proud to defend president trump in the media that day. >> rose: no exceptions i terms of siding with someone? >> you can tell him, hey, maybe you could do it a better way, but if you're going to break, then resign. if you're going to break with him, resign. the stuff leaked that week by certain members of the white house i thought was unacceptable. if you find it unacceptable, you should resign. >> rose: who are you talking about. >> obviously gary cohen and other people, if you don't like what he's doing and you don't agree with it, you have an obligation to resign. >> rose: gary cohen should have resigned? >> absolutely. if what the media said he was so upset about et that he leaked it to the media -- >> rose: why do you think he was upset? >> because the president didn't go hard on them. >> rose: exactly. i didn't say you can't be upset about it. i didn't say you can't come to a different conclusion about it. >> rose: were you upset about it? >> i was of the opinion that you should condemn both the racists and the neo-nazis because they're getting a free.

>> rose: you said. hang on. they're getting a free ride off donald trump. they're getting a free ride because it's a small group, it's a vicious group, they had no val you and all they do is show up in the mainstream media and the left wing makes them up as part of donald trump's coalition. he condemned these people from day one. >> rose: david duke. they're not part -- >> rose: david duke. david duke shows up for every media opportunity. >> rose: no, the media does not make david duke say what he says that he applauded what the president did. that's what david duke did. >> the president has condemned david duke and what david duke stands for consistently. >> rose: and so do you. absolutely. i come from the south. i come from the catholic church. my dad would tell stories about the klan tarring and feathering priests in the '30s. anyone who grew up in the south understands the klan is a hate filled group. they have no part in the south

and know of part in american society. here's what happened. you have these mo rones, richard spencer and clowns on the racial things and the anti-semitic thing and the left media gives them a platform. it's ridiculous, and they're made up to be much bigger than they are. these are marginal people who have no impact in our movement. the economic nationalism by the way is the one unifying element because it's stopping the elites in this country from eviscerating the black working class, eviscerating the hispanic working class. it's economic nationalism that binds us, it's making this country as strong as possible for its citizens that is a uniter not a divider. the left all they do is identity politics. ill say it every day, the more you play identity politics and we focus on economic nationalism, we will win because hispanics and blacks understand that if there are jobs and

careers there and they can take care of their families and there are children and grandchildren and children and grandchildren can get into engineering schools and silicon valley and work that this country will be more prosperous, that's a winner. identity politics is a loser. you got me worked yo up. >> rose: stay with me. yes. >> rose: this is the first television interview you've done. >> yes, ever. >> rose: when you read someone's antisemitism, they say you. when they say you're racist. >> ridiculous. i'm from richmond, virginia. i was raised in a middle class white neighborhood, when it became desesegregated, the neighbors moved to the inturchlts we stayed there. tim kaine lives around the corner. predominantly black neighborhood

in richmond, predominantly black. they're neighbors. i was the paper boy. i was raised and lived with among black people in a totally desegregated neighborhood. >> rose: so why do you think people raise the question? >> because i think they saw immediately that they're afraid of this economic nationalism and the left immediately had to go white supremacist, ethnonationallism to defeat us. they couldn't. clinton, her first speech when she came off the beach was nonsense. this goes to something i want to address with you. hillary clinton is not very bright. everybody says she's so much smarter than donald trump, she's a grinder. she's the kind of person to do homework for nine hours a night to get as. she's not that bright. you can see it in her speech. she doesn't have a grasp on what's important and not and that's what's essential in a leader. donald trump has a grasp on what's important and not.

that speech of hers an embarrassment. breitbart alt right, ethnonationallism, white supremacist, it landed flat and you know why? >> rose: because you want no part of ethnonationallist. >> it's ridiculous. >> rose: you don't want any part of any of those people. >> first off, not only is it morally wrong it's also totally irrelevant. economic nationalism is what this country was built on, the american system, right? we go back to that, we look after our own, we look after our citizens, we look after our manufacturing base and this country will be greater, more united and powerful than it's ever been. this is not astrophysics. by the way, that's every nationality, every race, religion, sexual preference, as long as you're a citizen of our country, as long as you're an american citizen, you're part of this populist, economic nationalist movement and, by the i wax that's 65%, 70% of the country and we will get that. that's why the smart people in

the democratic party understand it, sharrod brown, schumer get this, they understand. they're trying to get the identity politics out. they're trying to run -- the only question before us, is it going to be left-wing or right-wing populism. that's the question that will be answered in 2020. >> rose: let's talk about the world view. clearly, this president loves military people, great confidence in general mattis, secretary of defense, respects military people because he pushed out more authority to those in the field, points that you have raised. do you worry about their influence with him at all in terms of getting more troops overseas in different hot spots like afghanistan? >> it's something deeper. i think the team with general mattis, general kellie, general dunford, general mcmasterers,

the president respects people who have been in trials and have had real-life experience and he respects the generou generals ae around him and these guys give him a lot of prudent recommendations. i think it's a really good team. i disagree with some of the policies but it's something different. they are raised bush my problem is not with the individuals and what they're proposing. myproblem is with this post-war, rules-based international order that has a system of financial and trade relationships in the united states as the underwriter and guarantor of its security from europe all the way to the northwest pacific. we can't go onreich that. okay, here's the reason -- they're not allies. it's a protector. up in the northwest pacific, japan and south korea, we call it a protect rat.

we have a system, we are the ultimate tbarn torse and -- guarantors and underwrite this rules-based system and the question gets to be is it time for something different? >> rose: why shouldn't a nation as big as china with its own economy, the secondent largest in the world, probably will soon be the largest economy in the world. >> i tink their economy is the largest in the world. purchase power adjustment. >> rose: everything except per capita. >> $25 trillion. >> rose: why shouldn't they have a big say so in the world economy, in terms of international organizations? >> i didn't say they shouldn't. i said we have to face a fact that they're at economic war with us. they're appropriating -- by the way, ask silicon valley. this is not steve bannon. the 301 was greeted on silicon valley and wall street is finally coming, forced technology transfer. our tribute as a tributary

state -- is that meaning what happens is when you try to go into the chinese market they force you to give over your technology to -- >> all of it. if you ask silicon valley, it's the problem. it's not just the stealing it's the forced technology transfer. that is going to be an incredibly difficult problem to solve because it speaks to our capital markets, phi dish your responsibility. >> rose: speaking of your world view, north korea. there has been a lot of sabre rattling on both sides, north koreans, the president and stern statements by general mattis, secretary of at the fence, dunford, chairman of joint chiefs. you have said repeatedly they're fooling themselves if they believe there is a military solution. >> what i've said, the important point of what i've said is the issue is between us and china, okay. at the beginning of the summer

we were talking about do they have -- >> rose: you said there is no military solution because it will kill too many people. >> the solution to north korea, an i've said this from at a one and this is in open literature and i've given an interview about it but the open literature about the military situation in korea is open literature. but i have said the problem is china. at the beginning of the summer, i think memorial day, we were discussing whether they had an atomic bomb. now on labor day we're discussing whether they have a thermonuclear weapon, a hydrogen bomb. >> rose: so we have no military options? >> my suggestion and my recommendation is to solve the problem in korea, you need to solve that problem with china. it is a client state of china. >> rose: the president tried to make deals with the chinese to get them engaged. he even said he would go easy on trade if they would help with north korea, correct?

>> and i think it's incumbent upon us and particularly incumbent upon us and the right to make sure we have the president's back in continuing that and maybe doubling down on those efforts, that those efforts, what's going to lead -- and, look, i'm one guy. he's not the best advice in the world. these are very -- rex tillerson, general dunford, general mattis, you could not have a higher quality national security team, and many people have said this in the establishment, around the president. and they have information that i'm not privy to. so i'm saying i have tremendous respect for them, but i'm just giving another alternative and that is the logical alternative. the solution to korea runs through beijing, and we have to engage beijing and, by the way, they're saying we're doing everything we can. it's not good enough. >> rose: thy being -- the chinese. we have tremendous leverage to force china -- >> rose: whaled you do? i think we have tremendous leverage on sanctions,

tremendous leverage in capital markets. i think we have tremendous leverage with chinese banks, tremendous leverage with the chinese financial institution. we have tremendous leverage. >> rose: behind we used it? you don't use it lightly. by the way, it would have an impact here in the united states, to doubt about it. >> rose: in terms of jobs in the united states. >> i didn't say that. in terms of capital markets, principally. >> rose: most people think if we get into a trade war with china or any other kind of war like that, it will have a detrimental effect on both economies. >> i am not advocate ago trade war. i've never advocated a trade war with china. what i'm advocating is china is at economic war with us, it's evident on the face of it and many experts back me up. their open source literature, unrestricted warfare written by two chinese generals that were generals in the late '90s. their main thing is to avoid military confrontation with the

united states of america and do it economically. >> rose: because they think they're getting better, bigger, more powerful and want to avoid conflict. >> exactly. one belt one road is the combination of the geopolitical theories of mckinder and ma han and spateman. basically the strategies that have driven western civilization 200 years, all with one country, setting up -- they say they're not expansionist. they're geopolitical expansionists and one belt one road says that. >> rose: the president, what are your conversations about? >> i don't want to talk about my conversations with the president. he deserves confidentiality. he still reaches out to a lot of people. i think the pressure ports he cut off with people he talks to is way overblown. >> rose: give us a sense of

what's life in the white house with donald trump? >> it's fantastic. >> rose: what's his day like? his day, you know, it's action packed. starts early in the morning -- this guy, because he doesn't drink or party or anything like that, he works 20 or 18 hours a at a, he's always working. he comes down in the morning, there's a set of meetings and briefings. >> rose: and televisions are always on? >> not no the oval office. i think his study has a tv but during the working day -- >> rose: he's not a president who watch as lot of television? >> not in the day. i think he watches cable news at night. but not during the working day. i've never seen him watch tv. where he eats lunch when he's having lunch, maybe now and again, but it's constant meetings and constant work. you know, one of the things president trump is and he doesn't get credit for is he's a great listener. he remembers what you said before. if you say something different,

he cross-reference what you said before. when you go in there, you better be ready. if you're telling him something different than you told him before, defend it because he'll remember it. >> rose: fo for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

this season of "martha stewart's cooking school" explores treasured recipes from an extraordinary part of the world -- the arabian gulf. join me in my kitchen as i celebrate its regional ingredients. we'll make rustic breads, mouthwatering desserts, and hearty stews with spices made famous by historic trade routes, learn new culinary techniques and creative tips for serving arabian gulf classics, from preparing small bites to showstopping dishes fit for any festive occasion. with its bold flavors and strong traditions, i've been inspired to get into the kitchen and add what i like to call a good thing to an already delicious cuisine. enjoy. "martha stewart's cooking school" is made possible by... ♪ announcer: al jazeera.