welcome to the program. we begin tonight with a look at the aftermath of the horrific shooting in las vegas. here at the report from this evening's "cbs evening news." >> pictures of the pandemonium continue to show up on social media, the happy venue quickly turned into a bloody killing field as some fans drop to the ground with nowhere safe to go. others literally ran for their lives. this cab driver was trying to drive away from the scene when she picked up some rattled passengers. >> there was a shooting. there was dead bodies everywhere! >> in response to question from norah o'donnell, 64-year-old stephen paddock set up cameras including one on a service cart

outside the room. >> where did he set up cameras. i don't know. for what purpose? someone to take him into custody. >> he was at the hotel for the direct line of sight to the music festival 400 yards away. 10:30, police realized he was inside the mandalay bay hotel and casino. a floor by floor search ended 10:34 on the 32nd floor outside room 135. the spacious vista suite paddock shot into the hallway through a closed door wounding a hotel security guard. during the next hour the floor was secured and s.w.a.t. officers arrived. at 11:20 police broke down the door. >> one suspect down. >> rose: inside paddock's suite they found 23 guns and rifles including this one, in

all the rapid fire shooting lasted nine minutes. >> i realize that he was -- i seriously thought he was next door. >> chris was staying two doors down and could hear what had been going on. >> the walls and windows were vibrating. you could feel the compression, the sound. >> when the shooting finally stopped, those who came for a night of fun were left clinging to each other and to life. >> i haven't had any sleep. i close my eyes, i relive the moment. >> rose: we continue with jon sopel of the bbc and paul viollis, law enforcement analyst for cbs news. >> you kind of go down with a sense of dread in your soul about your seeing the worst of humanity and for the reasons that we've just been hearing about what could lead someone to do something. amoral is the word. it's not just immoral. there is no sense that there is any right or wrong in the person. yet you also come across the very best of humanity and the extraordinary stories of people thinking quickly, putting

themselves in harm's way, doing their very best to help their fellow americans and their fellow music lovers, whatever it happens to be, they are just human beings who need to be protected and i think that that is kind of one of the uplifting things that always comes out of these most go desk events that you -- grotesque events that you see in this beating heart of so many americans there is a deep vein of goodness there. >> rose: also a performance and conversation with ed sheeran, his new album is called "divide." >> i there ever thought i would play stadiums, but i thought i would make a living doing music even if it's playing a pub show. i knew that was possible, so i never had any other plan. >> rose: you had no plan b. no. >> rose: we conclude with an appreciation of rock icon tom petty. >> rock and roll. rock and roll, we tend to think of it more as a specific thing, like played with guitar.

there's going to be a certain amount of attitude to it. there's going to be an honesty to it. whereas rock, i think they've lumped in so many things under that banner that now it's not quite as pure. >> rose: an update on the tragedy in las vegas, a conversation with ed sheeran, and remembering tom petty, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york

city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: the tragic shooting sunday night in las vegas at a country music festival claimed 59 lives, it has left more than 500 people injured. it is the deadliest mass shooting in modern u.s. history. stephen paddock has been identified as the shooter. he fired into a crowd of thousands from his hotel suite on the 32nd floor of the mandalay bay resort and casino. s.w.a.t. officers searching for the shooter found paddock dead in his hotel room from an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound. officers discovered arsenal of 25 guns in his suite and 1 in his home. investigators are searching for positive motives. joining me is jon sopel of the bbc and paul viollis, law enforcement analyst for cbs news. pleased to have both of them. jon, what is the latest in terms of the investigation and the

ongoing uncovering more information about the shooter? >> well, charlie, when i'm probably like you, you probably wanted the answers to the questions who, what, where, when and why. we know who did it, we know how it unfolded and certain of the details, but why this shooting took place is still a mysterious as ever, what his motivations were. and i think that is something that the police and the f.b.i. are still working their way through. the sheriff gave a news conference a short time ago and updated people. it seemed he had also -- i mean, what was clear is just how premeditated this was. there were cameras in the hotel corridor that would alert paddock if the security people were moving closer to him. he had cameras in the room as well, and i'm sure the f.b.i. will be looking to investigate those as well. and of course you've still got the human tragedy, the astonishing statistic of 59 dead

and over 500 injured and every one of them telling their harrowing stories of survival in the midst of the most appalling situation. >> rose: paul, what do we know about him and what does it say? >> well, what we know about him is he's a well thought out calculating individual. what's coming out today through interviews with family, and we'll hear more as the days and weeks go on, he's described as unstable by his family. people said they were uncomfortable around him. we already know that he was a loner. these behavioral characteristics will start to fit nicely into a profile over the days to come. we know that he chose this for a reason. we know when he checked in, charlie, he chose and selected that particular room, those rooms so that he would overlook that site. we know he meticulously selected high-powered rifles he could transport incrementally to his

room. scopes, tripods and also, you know, certain types of modifications on weapons that would enable them to rapid fire. so well-planned, well thought out and that particular event was for a reason, no question. >> rose: and he meets the profile of others who have done this in what way? >> thus far. when you start looking at people who are active shooters, there's a lot we don't know, but we already know he was described as a loner. >> rose: right. we already know he was described as a poor communicator, now today unstable, makes people uncomfortable around him. as these things build, we'll see more and more not just the characteristics but really the violence continuum or signs he displayed, things he said that were alarming. >> rose: what's interesting to me is, first, its horrific nature but he's kill people he doesn't know, not people he has a grievance against.

>> trying to discern what is the political motivation or the broader rationale behind what he is doing, these are entirely anonymous people who have gone to count music festival. one of the things we've apparently learned is he likes country music, so these are people who are kindred spirits in their taste. we have been hearing paul, what you've got there is someone who's pre-meditated and determined to inflict the maximum casualty numbers in the minimum amount of time and if you have a whole group of 20,000 people huddled together at an open-air concert, you can achieve your goals fairly easily when you have got those high-powered weapons, you've got a position on the 32nd floor, and it's going to take a while for the forces of law and order to close you down. >> rose: give me possible scenarios as to why someone would do this. >> broad stroke, charlie. he wanted to make a statement, he wanted to be heard. i would venture to say, having done this a long time, he wanted people to listen to him.

make he thought people weren't listening and he wanted people to stand up and take notice. it was a broad stroke. he was looking for media attention and body count. the interesting thing as jon said, wear are know and you said this, he wasn't focusing on a particular individual. this wasn't a workplace violent shooting. he was going after an entire group. he selected that particular venue, that music concert, but on the last day, he picked it when the head liner was there, the most people would be there, as jon said maximum impact. his motivation, clearly we'll know more granularly, but his motivation was to send a macro message. >> rose: has there been any message that might have set him off? >> that will come forensically by interviewing neighbors and family members. law enforcement hasn't really spoken about going to florida where he's from and interviewing co-workers and neighbors there. he's just recently moved to nevada over the last year or

two, i believe. so, you know, we really forensically need to peel this onion back and see what it looks like and we haven't done it yet. that information will come from those interviews. >> rose: a remarkable thing, too, are the incredible stories of brave rithat are coming and continue to come of people literally sacrificing their life to save someone. you're hearing that even today, i assume. >> one of the things that has struck me is covering a number of these mass shooting incidences that you kind of go down with a sense of dread in your soul about your seeing the worst of humanity and for the reasons that we've just been hearing about what could lead someone to do something, i don't know, amoral is the word, not just immoral. there is no sense that there is any right or wrong in the person. yet you also come across the very best of humanity and the extraordinary stories of people thinking quickly, putting themselves in harm's way and doing their very best to help their fellow americans and fellow music lovers, whatever it happens to be, they are just

human beings who need to be protected and i think that is one of the uplifting things that always comes out of these most grotesque events that you do see, that in this beating heart of so many americans, there is a deep vein of goodness there. >> rose: more than 520 people have been injured. how seriously are most of these people injured? are they minor wounds or are some of them bordering on being critically impaired? >> i think they go across the whole gamut. the people who climbed a fence and sprained and ankle right through people who have gunshot wounds which are life-threatening. if wear are to take any solace in anything out of such an awful situation, it is that the death toll doesn't seem to have risen today to far, and maybe that means that the people who are in the hospital now have been stabilized in intensive care, yes, but that they have stabilized their conditions. but for a lot of these people,

it's going to be a very, very long process of rehabilitation, of building lives again because what started off as an evening at kind of a music concert has turned into something very different, and hundreds of people, thousands of families will have had their lives changed in the ten minutes of that shooting spree. >> rose: any evidence of mental issues that may have come forward or may be hinted at? >> the interesting part here and i'm sure jon has been covering this as he sees this as well, the interesting part here is the connection with the father and the mental illness that the father had and the criminal history of the father, and i think, as that pans out a little bit more, that's going to speak more to the genetic side of the investigation, the forensic side of the investigation looking into the particular shooter, in concert with the fact that when they spell out his computer and phone, they see who's calling and web sites he was visiting, that will speak to the questions now with respect to motivation and what inspired him.

>> the thing i wanted to add was, on one level, how can you say that, you know, of course he's abnormal, of course he's mentally disturbed, he's done something like this. yet, at the same time, you've got to see that alongside the fact that this was someone who made calm, rationale, premedicated calculations about how this particular scenario was going to unfold and put in all the pieces that would be necessary to achieve his warped objectives. so you have got mental instability that makes someone want to do that, yes, but you've also got someone who is functioning at the same time. >> hence the sociopathic personality. absolutely, jon. >> rose: jon, thanks for joining us from las vegas. thanks, paul. >> entirely my pleasure, thank you. >> rose: we'll be right back, stay with us. >> rose: ed sheeran is here. three years ago, the "new york times" called him an unlikely pop star phenomenon. now two grammys and 26 million albums later he not only

established himself as one of the biggest pop stars in the world but changed the sound of pop music altogether. taylor swift says whether by choice or unconscious evolution, when he decided on musical ambitions, ed became less of a boy and more of a tank. his new album is called "divide." "the shape of you" spotfied the most extreme song of all time and viewed on youtube nearly 2.5 billion times. ed sheeran performing shape shape here in our studio. ♪ the club isn't the best place to find a lover ♪ so the bar is where i go me and my friends ♪ sat at the table doing shots drinking fast ♪ and then we talk slow and you come over ♪ and start up a conversation with just me ♪ and trust me i'll give it a chance ♪ now take my hand, stop put van the man on the jukebox ♪ and then we start to dance

♪ and now i'm singing like girl, you know i want your love ♪ your love was handmade for somebody like me ♪ come on now, follow my lead ♪ i may be crazy, don't mind me ♪ say, boy ♪ let's not talk too much ♪ grab on my waist and ♪ put that body on me ♪ come on now, follow my lead ♪ come on now, follow my lead ♪ i'm in love with ♪ the shape of you ♪ we push and pull ♪ like a magnet do ♪ although my heart is falling too ♪ i'm in love with your body last night ♪ you were in my room and now my bedsheets ♪ smell like you ♪ every day discovering something brand new ♪ i'm in love with your body oh-i-oh-i-oh-i-oh-i ♪ i'm in love with your body oh-i-oh-i-oh-i-oh-i ♪ i'm in love with your body oh-i-oh-i-oh-i-oh-i ♪ i'm in love with your body ♪ every day discovering something brand new ♪ i'm in love with the shape of you ♪ one week in we let the story begin ♪ we're going out

on our first date ♪ you and me are thrifty ♪ so go all you can eat fill up your bag ♪ and i fill up a plate ♪ we talk for hours and hours about the sweet and the sour ♪ and how your family is doing okay ♪ leave and get in a taxi ♪ then kiss in the backseat ♪ tell the driver make the radio play ♪ and i'm singing like girl, you know i want your love ♪ your love was handmade for somebody like me ♪ come on now, follow my lead ♪ i may be crazy, don't mind me ♪ say, boy let's not talk too much ♪ grab on my waist and ♪ put that body on me ♪ come on now, follow my lead ♪ come, come on now, follow my lead ♪ i'm in love with ♪ the shape of you ♪ we push and pull like a magnet do ♪ although my heart is falling, too ♪ ♪ i'm in love with your body ♪ and last night you were in my room ♪ ♪ and now my bedsheets smell like you ♪ ♪ every day discovering something brand new, i'm in love with your body.

body. ♪ oh i oh i oh i oh i oh i ♪ i'm in love with your body. ♪ every day discovering something brand new ♪ ♪ i'm in love with the shape of you ♪ ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ come on, be my baby, come on ♪ i'm in the love with the shape of you ♪ ♪ we push and pull like a magnet do ♪ ♪ although my heart is falling too ♪ ♪ i'm in love with your body ♪ last night you were in my room ♪ ♪ now my bedsheets smell like you ♪ ♪ every day discovering something brand new ♪ ♪ i'm in love with your body ♪ come on be may baby ♪ come on i'm in love with your body ♪ ♪ come on be my baby come on

♪ come on i'm in love with your body ♪ ♪ every day discovering something brand new ♪ ♪ i'm in love with the shape of you ♪ >> rose: i'm pleased to have ed sheeran back at this table almost two years to the day of his visit here. >> thanks for having me, man. it's wonderful being back in new york. it's really cool. >> rose: do you love touring? i really do. it's kind of why i do it. i think making records i find super fun but the buzz of being on stage is, like, irreplaceable. >> rose: just you and a guitar and a loop pedal. >> a loop station is basically, you press record, you play something in, you press play and it loops back, so every note shows the same, everything is always completely live and attend of the song you wipe it and it never exists again. so it's cool. >> rose: is it an adjustments to playing stadiums? you played wimbley which is

about 80,000 people. >> met life next year. >> rose: met life again. which is exciting. yeah. i think it's not really that much different, but you kind of -- i think if you exert more energy doing it, you actually end up shooting yourself in the foot a little bit. i think you still need to trace it the same. i walk out on stage and just want everyone to have a good time. you know the way that people at shows have a good time is they let themselves go, sing as loud as they want and dance, then you walk out drained of energy and feeling great. that's what i want the whole crowd to feel. >> rose: you've done other things. you have a few more tattoos i'm told. >> yeah, a few more. >> rose: what can you tell us about the new tattoos? >> they're all over my body now. i have them all over my chest and stomach. to be honest, no one sees them other than me. they're in the shape of a video briefly. they're just for me, i like

them. >> rose: made new friends like eric clapton. >> the last time we spoke, i met eric before then but we played in his record and he played on my record and we performed together and it's been pretty great. >> rose: on the time 100 most influential people list? >> yeah. i don't know if that's true because i don't know, like, how i'm influencing people. >> rose: well you are certainly influencing what you ople and you're influencinging music. >> yeah, thank you. >> rose: what else it you think that connects you to so many people in the pop world? >> i don't know because i'm not doing anything that hasn't been done before. >> rose: you're writing songs that you play yourself? >> yeah, and i think i'm writing songs from the heart that are honest and i think musicians for all time have done that, but i think my influence is probably unique to the music that i make, so, like, the music i make is probably not the most, like,

innovative ideas, but i think the music that gets poured into the melting pot for it probably are, the stuff i grew up listening to and stuff. >> rose: the last album had stories about ex-girlfriends. >> yes. >> rose: this album has stories about what? >> one girlfriend, is a girl i was with last time i saw you actually. she's a girl i went to school with and grew up with. yeah, we kind of got sacked off both of our jobs and went traveling for a year together and it's pretty much a year of experiences. >> rose: this is a year of that journey? >> yeah, i went to ghana so stay with musician friends of mine there and all we did was create music and eat really great food. >> rose: did you learn new music? >> yeah, the title means all is well in ghanaian. >> rose: eraser is about fame and fortune and celebrity. >> yeah, the first track of the album was something different

before that and it was a very dark song about all of that. i kind of wanted to sum it up a little bit more and pour more information in. so it's just an information overload. just to kind of, like, up to now story of my life basically. >> rose: it's all stories of your life, isn't it? >> yeah, but that one is really, like -- the other songs are, like, stories of my life in a kind of romantic view of it. so it will be a love song or kind of a song about a breakup whereas erase is like i talk about my dad taking me to concerts on a road called the a14 or, you know, i start off by saying i was born inside a small town and i lost that state of mind and then learn to singin' side the lord's house and stopped at age of nine. it's very specific of my life and reads like an autobiography. >> rose: castlele on a hill is

about a castle in your hometown. >> framlingham castle where henry viii kept his mistresses. >> rose: what's is the song about? >> i guess about a night out with someone but it's not exactly like the deepest song to read into because it's kind of just all there on the surface, it's basically, like, fans i didn't think a girl on -- fancying a girl on a fight out. >> rose: and gal go away girl. i had a girl come over and make this album with me. basically ten different times i've spent in dublin. ♪ baby i just want to dance with

my pretty. >> rose: when you took the year off with your girlfriend was the idea to lose yourself or find something? >> yeah, do you know what, she left our high school and came to university and did a bachelors degree and she was in university five years and i left school and toured. >> rose: at 16. yeah, but i left and toured. we both never really experienced -- most of our friends left school, went traveling to thailand and stuff, and we both didn't experience that because we just focused on our work. so what we both really wanted to experience was that but not on a budget and kind of going to japan. i have been to tokyo but i've never seen okinawa or actually

going around and seeing a country, because if you were top visit england and just go to london you're not really seeing the country. >> rose: absolutely. we just wanted to take in other coaches. >> rose: you've got enough money to spend and buy and have and do anything you wanted to do? >> yeah, but i don't live like that. i don't want a big luxury on a private scwet. i want to live in the country and eat fish and chips. >> rose: you don't think you've changed do you? >> i definitely have. >> rose: in what way? i'm 26. if you look at anyone from age 20 to 26 they change a lot because you move out of home for the first time, you're meeting new people and experience and you do great, so i think in that aspect i think i have changed personally but in terms of professionally year on year, i think i'm just getting more and more focused. when i first started out, i would be, like, i'll do anything, and now it's, like, very specifically doing things that actually will benefit the

music rather than just -- >> rose: but i'll do anything means i'll do anything to have you hear my music, i'll do anything to promote my song, i'll do anything to get the kind of traction i want. >> yeah, well, i would go and play, like -- >> rose: everywhere. yeah, i remember playing in, like, one of the london pods that go around like to 20 people. i think now i would do that but if it was planned out. out. >> rose: you went to london when you were 16,. >> yes. >> rose: how do you think you difficult it and so many people want to be you and don't do it beyond the idea of talent which is obviously crucial? >> i didn't have a plan b and i wouldn't class myself as talented. i think you have to work for talent. i i couldn't really play guitar or sing and i learned how to do

both. i couldn't write, and i learned how. i think persistence is worst more than talent. work great and persistence. like, i came to london and was mott the best singer-songwriter or the best performer in the scene i was in. and even at the time where i got signed, i probably wasn't the best but the more and more you work at something you give yourself no choice but to get better. so i think persistence for me was the key. that's what i tell any kid nowadays that comes up and says how do i become a performer? i'm, like, don't worry if you can't really sing or play. i couldn't really when i first started out, but i was persistent with it. i never thought i would be doing anything else. i never thought i would play stadiums but i thought i would make a living doing music even playing a pub show and getting 100 at the end of the night. i knew that was possible, so i never had any other plan. >> rose: you had no plan b. no. >> rose: how long did it take you? >> four years. four years.

but that was, like, playing shows -- every tuesday and thursday i play plea shows a night, sunday i play two shows a might and the other days i play one show a night. so it was four years of very, very intense gigging and recording and networking. >> rose: but that's an invaluable experience. >> yeah. well, now, like, if i get up at met life stadium i'm not nervous. i've done almost 2,000, 3,000 shows to feet to this point and i know it's going to go well. >> rose: do you vary the set list for every stadium? >> yeah. well, i mean, i have the same beginning and end and the middle varies. the beginning always goes well and the end always goes well but in the middle if someone's coming, like, for instance wimbley stadium, someone has two or three tickets, which is common for fans to come to multiple shows, i want them to see a different show every time,

playing different songs every night. >> rose: it's clear to me you develop a savvy sense of the business of music as well as the doing of music. >> that's the thing. i get a lot of people because i did an interview earlier in the year where i got kind of called shrewd businessman but in a negative sense, and my argument to that was, like, if i wanted to be a basement musician and still play pubs i would be, but i want as many people in the world to hear my music, and you can't not be business savvy and make that happen. you have to, like -- you have to in every way be, like, right, if pi go and see every single radio station in the country four or five times, i'll play the song and people will play the music and hear the album and have the whole thing. i want people to really, you know, take in. and it shows that the shows when you play a gig and you have -- you know, sometimes people

propose at the gig so they have their first dance or some people's first kisses and that's what i want the music to be. i want the people to be engrained in people as memories and good feelings and i don't think you can get to that point just letting someone else do it. i think you have to be focused. >> rose: is it somebody that works for you or you actually do it yourself. you're the guy who keeps your focus. >> i definitely keep my focus but in that sense keeping a focus you pick out very, very talented people to work with you as well. so the people that do my press and tv tnd my manager and tv and people who work on my tour they're all as focused and hard working as each other because they all have the same end goal. so the guy who does my sound engineering, he wants to be the best sound engineer in the world and it just so happens we'll link up and try to achieve the goal together. >> rose: do you remind yourself of any artist we might know otherwise? >> i've always kind of looked at brucbruce springsteen at my

benchmark because he's a workhorse and he's gig gig gig gig, show show show show -- >> rose: and three hours and more. >> i haven't got ton that point. but it's all about the fans, people walking away thinking i had a really good experience, so, yeah, he's like my benchmark to look at. >> rose: we did an interview with jeff bezos, and he said he only thinks of the customer which is the person for you in the arena. >> in my mind with the competition, i mean, it's different in jeff bezos' line of work because competition is everything, like if someone else takes over. but with music, music is so subjective that you don't really have competition because no one does what i do and i don't do what anyone else does so if there's another artist that will sell more than me or more tickets it's like they have their own lane, it's not like they're stealing. you make your music and someone else is, like, it's very

difficult to look at competition as a musician because everyone's kind of in their own lane and it's only when you come down to trivial things like performance slots on the grammys where it's actually a competition thing but that's up to someone else to be we want them to perform and not you but in terms of existing like a musician it's not -- i don't think -- i have a cettive streak with myself,, like i want to do better than last time, so thinking out loud, i want "the shape of you" to -- >> rose: so you are running against yourself all the time. >> yeah, but that's not, like, to take away anything from any other musician, everyone has their own lane and fan base and my fans aren't going to, like, kiss regard someone just because they're my fan. they're not going to be, like, no, i'm not going to listen to them. they'll have a wide music taste and go to a lot of concerts and listen to a lot of music online and i don't think competition comes into it but my competitive streak is more with myself to better what i did last time. >> rose: do you still have

time to write for other people? >> yeah, surprisingly is that so justin comes to you and says, hey, man, have you got another song? >> just happened. >> rose: is that right? just happened about a week ago. yeah, i don't know if it's coming out this year or happening at all but he did ask me. >> rose: did you then go and say, by the way, i've got this song, let me go git it? or did you say i'll write you one? >> well, i kind of -- i have a lot in the bank for him just in case. i have a lot that i've written because "love yourself" and "cold water "-- . >> rose: pretty damn good. i'm going to write a bunch in case somebody comes. so i had one ready to go, basically. >> rose: but do you know the ones you want for yourself? >> for me it's not about whether a song is more of a hit because i didn't know "shape of you" would be as big a hit. i don't know what's a hit and not a hit. >> rose: 2.3 billion streams is a hit. >> it's more about what the song

means to me. castle on the hill is about my friends and my growing up. >> rose: and your home. and having someone else sing that doesn't make sense, whereas love yourself would be about so many different things that it doesn't really matter. >> rose: will you ever cover "love yourself"? >> i did a house gig the other day for music cares and i dropped it in there but that was like to 30 people and it just felt fun. >> rose: it is said that you have literally gone to friends' houses who were having a birthday. >> yeah. >> rose: and you will perform for their birthday. it will be 35 people -- or a wedding. >> i was thinking of someone the other day, they're, like, what's your hobby? i was, like, music. in my spare time i like to write songs and perform. honestly, if i'm somewhere, like i went to go and see brenham mars' 2013 concert. he said hop up on stage.

i said yeah. in my spare time, i love to perform and play, which people find weird because it's my job, but i guess it's having a really, really good job is doing what you love, which i'm sure you do as well. so, yeah, in my spare time -- >> rose: find your passion and you will be okay. >> precisely. it's not like i go to these weddings and birthdays when i'm asked. it's just -- >> rose: but if i get married again i'm calling you. >> perfect. >> rose: deal. deal. >> rose: probably a deal you will never have to pay off on. >> i don't know, man. i go and play people's weddings like that. this was one actually i promised back in, like, 2009 when i wasn't obsessed with touring and i did it in '11 or '1, so i do keep my promises. >> rose: well the reason your life is totally about music in part is because that's what you care about. it's also you have no time for anything but music and friends.

>> well, yeah, but even with friends -- friends fit in between the music and they know. they say, after this, i'm going into the studio again and making a song, and i just love it, man. it's, like, i don't know why i would want to do anything else. >> rose: can you feel and see yourself getting better and better? do you feel better at it now? >> i definitely -- songwriting, i feel like, has become -- i think i've learned the art of it whereas before i would just chuck ideas together whereas now i kind of know -- >> rose: it's the art -- yeah, the art of it is all about, like, the structure and i think, for me, i was always so focused on lyrics, whereas, now, it's more about usually when i write a melody, lyrics will just fall into it and i don't really think about it. it's like a subconscious thing that happens and the lyrics end up being better than when i was 20 but it's more of a

subconscious thing. castle on the hill started off with me singing melodies that sounded nice. and a line said. ♪ sing into tiny dancer and i was like that's like singing to tiny dancer and that falls in. it's more feeling it and letting it happen. ♪ i'm on my way ♪ driving on 19 ♪ that old country lane ♪ singing to tiny dancer ♪ and i love the way you make me feel ♪ ♪ it's real ♪ we watch the sunset over the castle on the hill ♪ >> rose: how much of a risk element is part of your dna? >> well, i give myself, like, one or two sure things. so for me on this album, perfect

and castle on the hill were sure things. the rest of it i try new things out. go away girl is probably the most polarizing song i've ever released and it's either, like, the worst song anyone's ever heard or, wow, it's just -- >> rose: there's no in between. >> no, there's no grey area and people really hate that song. but i enjoyed making it and it was definitely a risk to do, and, in my mind, it paid off because it shows it's one of the best reactions i get. yeah, and it sold a bunch of copies and so i don't think it's -- i don't think it was a bad risk. but stuff like that or bibia be ye ye was me working with an artist town. nancy mulligan was a focus. so on my last record i had a lot of success with experimenting.

so this record i didn't want to do the same thing again and i experimented again and i think that's the way i keep it interesting. >> rose: what's the idea of plus, divide and multiply? >> okay, so there was five eps i released before i got signed. one was with band, one was programmed, one was just acoustic, one was a live c.d. and one was a collaborations project. i had this idea if i make five things at completely different genres, i release them in a year and flood the market i'm in and eventually i'll get record. by the fifth one, i signed the deal. plus it was an addition to those five things and multiply when it came out, was to make everything wigger. divide, if you look at divide as an album. >> rose: this one. 12 tracks, four bonuses, and it's divided. six of it pop r&b and six

acoustic and it's divided out basically. >> rose: where do you think you will be five years from now? >> do you know what? i feel -- >> you will be approaching 26 now? >> yeah, 26. i will be hopefully thinking about starting a family. that's something i would love to have. but musically i think, do you know i see the music industry going in one direction now, and it's -- if you look at the beatles and elton john and that era, they were releasing two or three albums a year and it was write a song and put it on an album and release it, it was very much like that. that stopped when cassettes and c.d.s came out because it took a while for c.d.s to get everywhere and then get bought and people to hear it on the radio. now i feel like the music industry was heading back to where it was where it's quick, quick, quick. i spent three years on each album but i think it's going to get to where people are going an

album or two a year. >> rose: and the question comes will quality suffer. >> no, because i think the album i had of this a year ago, it's not as perfect in my mind as this, but the songs were still good and i think, you know, us as songwriters and musicians, we write good songs all the time and we overthink it and we're putting an album together and we go i don't know. and you just overthink it. where i think the actual -- you know, the beatles never thought anything and elton john, they just put stuff on the record and release that, and we listen back to the records and some songs that never made it on an album were people's favorite songs. so getting back to that will be quite a healthy thing for music. >> rose: how many people have two songs both be number one. >> i don't know. that was, like, i can't take credit for that idea. i wanted to release castle on the hill first and the label was put out shape of you and the way we did it is let's stick them

both out at once and see which one's the winner. >> rose: who won. they both won in their own ways. >> rose: two very different songs. >> yeah, but i think that's what helped sell the album because you go, right, i've heard these two songs, they're so different, what else is on the album? if they're two of the same songs, you're, like, the album will sound like that. but giving people "divide," that was the divide. there was a pop r&b and not exactly acoustic but the two different sounds. >> rose: when someone buys this album, what do you think they're expecting? >> i don't real will you know. i can't pinpoint what my fan base is anymore. a show, i have, like, elderly couples coming because they like thinking out loud and i have,, like, you know, four-year-old or five-year-old children because they liked remember the shape of you and university students coming on date night. i can't really pinpoint my fan base.

so -- which is good because i think if you pander towards your fan base you're never really going to win. i just make the records. >> rose: be true to yourself. yeah, i just make the record for me and it's sort of the stuff i love and i put it out there. to be honest, it surprised me the breadth of people that have come up to me saying i really like the album. it's so many different people from so many different worlds and it's -- yeah, which i think is the good way to be. >> rose: you have said before and i've asked you this before, you are first in your mind a songwriter rather than a performer. >> yes. >> rose: is that balance getting closer, though? >> probably, yeah, because i think i've never -- like last time i saw you it was wimbley stadium and i never tha thoughti would get to play a stadium and we tour stadiums. i never thought i would become a stadium act. to be a stadium act i think you

have to be the best performer you can be because your competition is coldplay and u2 and bruce springsteen so you have to work to get on that level. i will say i will always be a songwriter but i will say the balance is balancing out now that there's a lot of pressure. >> rose: so when i get remarried, i'm calling you -- i'll find out where you are and we'll make it happen. >> perfect. >> rose: great. the album "divide," ed sheeran, great pleasure to have him here for the second time. i hope you will continue to stop by the table. >> that's another thing. i'll get loads of people coming up to me going, i love you on charlie rose. thank you for showing me to your audience. >> rose: great to have you. pleasure, man. >> rose: rock music icon tom petty died monday, he had been found unconscious at his home in malibu. tom petty and the heart breakers sold more than 80 million records including american girl, refugee, free falling and i

won't back down. bob dylan said he was a great performer, full of delight, a friend, i'll never forget him. tom petty and heart breakers completed a tour to celebrate their 40th anniversary, he called it his last trip across the country. he appeared on this program in 1999. here's a look at moments from that conversation. >> i think there's a lot of places to go from rock still. i don't think the whole story has been told or the whole song has been sng. i still think there will be innovations within the form. and there's something timeless about rock and roll. i like to have the roll on. >> rose: yeah. yeah, because the roll, to me, ent mates -- intimates a

certain thing. when the term changed to rock, this widened the form, you know, like any -- so many different kinds of music were just sort of lumped in under this term rock, where i think rock and roll we tend to think of it more as a specific thing like played with guitar. there's going to be a certain amount of attitude to it. there's going to be an honesty to et. whereas rock, i think they've lumped in so many things under that banner now it's not quite as pure. it's kind of standard these days with multi-track recording toedo add your solos later but we tried to learn the number as we'll perform it and put it down that way in the studio. because so much of this music is about feel as opposed to, say,

technique. technique is great, but it will never substitute for feel. that's what the heart breakers and i are striving for is feel, so that you feel it and you believe it, you know, to me, like, i mean, my singing voice compared to pavarotti wouldn't stand up, you know. but i think i'm good at getting over a believability, you know. if i'm going to play the narrator, i want people to believe me, you know, and i think those are the best singers, are the ones that you tend to believe. >> rose: there are certain songs you cannot leave the stage without playing. >> yeah. >> rose: how many of them? is it five? >> well, maybe, yeah. i think there are a few that people expect to see, free falling and refugee and mary

jane's last dance. >> rose: where do you choose to put them in a performance? wherever you feel like it? >> i try to put them wherever they're going to have the most impact. i continue like to always save them for the end or whatever. >> rose: encore or whatever. i think that's too predictable. sometimes i like to even open with one is a good way to do it. >> rose: that will get them going early. >> yeah. and, you know, it's hard because you can tire of these songs if you have been playing. some of them we have been playing 20 years or more, american girl, you know, but they really want it, you know. so i just have to remind myself that i'm the same way. if i go to see ray charles, i really want what'd i say. probably really tired of playing it. >> rose: did you put some limit on ticket prices for your concerts? >> i've tried to hold it down.

>> rose: to $50 or something? yeah. >> rose: successful at it? yeah, so far. our costs keep going up. i don't think rock needs to be $150 a ticket. i don't think concerts are really worth that. i think this music was meant to be accessible to people, and when i was a young guy coming up, an album was three bucks, and i'd go out and collect coke bottles or whatever if i really had t to have this album, i coud raise three bucks and get it. tickets were really cheap in those days. so i'm a little saddened to see -- i don't want to play only to the elite. >> rose: the notion is also that the material that moves your lyrics, where is it from?

>> my life and might have friends' lives. it's all around me. you know, inspiration is really never very far away, if you look for it. it's all around you, you know. i don't try to write a diary of my life in my work, but it is reflected, you know. i was telling someone recently if i -- if i sat down to write contensionlely, i don't think -- confessionally, i don't think i would write. it would put me off. when a some comes, it's kind of a magical thing. you know you're picking up some signal. you're writing and doing your best to questioned words and -- to get words and music down. they often come at the same time for me. but i'm much better, in retrospect, in looking back a few months later or even a week later and saying, oh, i see, i understand where this is coming from.

but i don't always sit down and think, okay, i'm going to write a song about this or that. i just let it go, and it does wind up capturing a lot of me. but i have written about other people and their problems as well. >> rose: you will always have material. >> sure, yeah. i think material is always around, and that's the great joy is to create something that wasn't there. >> rose: what's harder, the music or the lyrics? >> they're equally hard. they're equally easy. i'll tell you what's tough for me is when i write lyrics first, i have a really hard time finding the right piece of music that i think, you know, sort of matches the color of these lyrics. i always hope that i get at least a verse or a ch a chorus,

something come in as i find the melody, and that will usually guide me. but i has been tricky sometimes to get music to fit lyrics. for me. >> rose: i would think it would work the other way around. i would think that once you have the lyrics, you could think of the music. i would think that the lyrics would go in search of music rather than music going in search of lyrics. >> some people do it that way. for me it's the opposite. i have a tough time setting the lyrics to music. i don't know why. i have to find the right feel pore e. e -- for it. so i try to write at least a chunk of it at the same time. i tend to trust them more if they come in on the same bus. >> rose: are you writing all the time. >> no. >> rose: or do you sit town when you need to and write? >> i keep a guitar or piano

nearby most of the time, an i may have an idea or i may have a piece of a song here and there, but usually these days i write more when i know i'm going to have an album, you know, when time has been set aside to record, then i will set aside a few months, and i'll work fairly diligently, but, you know, some days you go into work. my job's a funny one. it's very lonely sometimes because you go in the room and you want to write and either you can pick up your guitar and it's either friendly and anything you play sounds very musical, and then some days it's not so friendly and it sounds cold. if it becomes a struggle, i've learned over the years to just walk away and go, okay, well, i'm not writing today because it's a struggle. and i just wait for those days

that it seems to be agreeable, you know. the gods are with me. >> rose: tom petty dead at 66. >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

♪ - okay, if i asked you to make a list of the great american culinary hits, you might include regional barbecue, or maybe layer cakes, apple pie à la mode, southern cornbread. but in terms of ingredients, american ingredients, you'd have to say peanut butter. well, in the middle east, of course, they use tahini, which is made from sesame seeds, not peanuts. but the thing about tahini is, it has a slight bitterness and savoriness to it. so we'd like to use it as an ingredient. and we're going to make some turkish meatballs