>> charlie: welcome to the program. we begin with las vegas and the tragedy that unfolded there. >> stephen paddock's assault was no suicide mission and appeared to hope to get away and had eyes on other venues. >> charlie: and we have david begnaud and the report from puerto rico. >> they knew it was coming. the governor predicted the power would be out the entire island and some places could be up to a year. >> charlie: and continue with the series "mind hunter" and talk to the stars. >> these are very sad people under grown up under horrendous

circumstances. and it's not to overstate the empathy for them it's simply a fact. we have seen so much of the literary conceit of a fine line separates the hunters from the hunted. >> and finally we look at the increasingly popular world of podcasts. >> i've been in podcasting since 2005 shortly after it started. we found when you put together a group of people they feel connected with they felt they were at a table with them or listening to their friends talk about something. >> charlie: the latest on puerto rico, las vegas mind hunter and podcasts.

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: we begin this evening with the continuing search for answers in las vegas. here's the cbs evening news. >> reporter: investigators are no closer to understanding what may have inspired 64-year-old stephen paddock to create such carnage. his preparations were so elaborate that investigators believe he may have had an complice. the clark county sheriff. >> he spent decades acquiring ammo and living a secret life

much of which will never be fully understood. >> reporter: the new video shows the harrowing moment the attack unfolded. >> do we have medical services? >> reporter: at 10:05 he fired the first shots from the mandalay bay. ten minutes later the shooting stopped. at 10:18 he fired more than 200 rounds from the room injuring a security guard in the leg and after that fired no mo bullets to the festival. he may have had more in mind. you suggested after he saw the security guard his concern became his sel-- himself. did you see evidence he tried to survive this. >> yes. >> reporter: what is that? >> i can't tell you. >> reporter: police used an explosive to breakthrough the front door. paddock not only sprayed bullets into the music festival, some

hit the aviation fuel tanks on the edge of the airport. investigators are trying to determine if they were stray bullets or he intended to hit the tanks. >> this guy is the boogie man. >> reporter: andy sutton is a consultant for cbs news. >> he had tremendous tactic. this showed tremendous tactics and who showed him to use the weapons as he did. >> charlie: puerto rico continues to reel in the aftermath of hurricane maria. more than two weeks after the storm half the population doesn't have access to drinking water. 95% of the power grid remains down. the official death toll is 34 but the governor expected that number to ride. david begnaud has been reporting and here's a look at some of his reporting. >> reporter: residents of puerto rico waded through the mess

hurricane maria left behind. flooding is widespread and electricity is non existent. 20 minutes from san juan, police and volunteers are working to rescue people trapped by maria's storm surge. they helped this man and his dog get out and get to dry land. >> the governor is sitting in the see the of his humvee and talking to people on what the situation is in their home. >> reporter: across the street, streets that don't look like rivers have no power lines. officials cannot say when it will be restored. before slamming puerto rico, maria roared across the island of dominica and the death toll climbed to more than 15 and the search for the missing still continues. a storm passed the island today and the storm with moving

towards the turks and caicos. president trump is declaring a state of emergency for prosecutor. with so many communities cut off the full extent of the damage is not yet known. david begnaud, cbs news, san juan, puerto rico. >> charlie: i'm please to have david begnaud. welcome. >> it's great to be here. >> charlie: you cover a lot of stories. where do you put this one? >> reporter: it got worse the report. it's gotten worse. i've never covered a national disaster where the emergency was endless 15 days out and it's still an emergency. >> charlie: is that because of the severity or because -- puerto rico was not prepared for this kind of thing and can you ever be prepared or is it because the rescue effort has been too little too slow?

>> reporter: what's happens is everyday the governor said we are getting everything we need from the federal government and they couldn't help better but i said what more do you need to move it past an emergency situation? he said i need extra helicopters and busses. they didn't have bus drivers. you know why? they couldn't get there, their homes were too badly damaged they had to stay behind for their family, for whatever reasons they couldn't move sly. the island was paralyzed. they knew it was coming. the governor predicted it and some places could be without power for up to a year. >> charlie: a year? i think i said to you on the air, someone in my apartment was able to talk to his mother in the last couple days. and reach her. there must be thousand. >> reporter: i know prosecutor puerto rico

>> reporter: i know puerto ricans that got on a plane because it was the only way to check on their family. >> charlie: how will puerto rico recover? >> reporter: they're in bankruptcy. they filed for bankruptcy earlier this year and you have a delapidated power system and if anything the governor said this could be what puerto rico needed. they couldn't get the money before the storm and now they have to have it but there's still places with no running water. still people drinking water from a stream and bathing in it. today we heard they're now sending tankers to areas of special need and they'll be positioned at each municipalities. what took 15 days. >> charlie: you're the reporter, what took 15 days? >> i said why do you keep asking for help you've told us you were able to get food to every

municipality around the island. why do people still need more? he said we think the food is going to a distribution area in the middle of town but people don't know it's there and we can't reach them because there's no phone communication. i said what are you going to do and he said we're going to go to mega phones and i'm going to encourage mayors telling people where to go and if we can't do it that way we'll use a helicopter. >> charlie: president trump came and by many accounts it's not what they expected in a variety of ways but this your report on his visit to puerto rico earlier this week. here it is. >> president trump and the first lady were treated by a friendly audience in one of the fastest areas to recover from the hurricane. the president handed out supplies tossing paper towels into the crowd. mr. trump also toured the neighborhood and met with people whose home were damaged by

maria. >> we're going to help you out. >> thank you, mr. president. >> reporter: the president and first lady got a look by helicopter. they didn't visit the hardest hit areas where people are forced to bathe and drink from stream water. earlier president trump praised the federal government's response but downplayed hurricane maria compared to hurricane katrina. >> if you look at the tremendous impact of katrina and the hundreds of people that died you can be proud of all of your people and our people working together. >> reporter: mr. trump criticized the u.s. territory for their more than $70 billion debt. >> i hate to tell you, puerto rico but you've thrown our budget out of whack. >> reporter: and later he seemed

to suggest their debt may be forgiven. >> they owe a lot of money to your friends on wall street and we'll have to wipe that out. >> reporter: not after he left the death toll was reported to have risen from 16 to 34 caused by flooding, debris and mud slides and there's anxiety, suicide and oxygen patient who's died when the power ran out. david begnaud, cbs news, san juan, puerto rico. >> charlie: so you've become so identified with the story. a friend of mine who said david is so into the story if he ever comes to new york i'd like to meet him. they've become an internet sensation as well. how's it look in the way people look at you do you they think you, the reporter, have to have answers for us?

>> i think it was the only place they were getting answers. and it started with this, i'll never forget going to the airport and there were 900 to 1,000 people laid out. there was no power, no ac, no food and water and kids stripped naked from the parents sleeping in their strollers as their parents fanned them with cardboard and a went to the governor and i said do you know what's going to the airport they said we saw your report and we ordered supplies and i said i just left and it's not there. i get questions how far involved in a story should you be? i didn't hand out food. i didn't hand out water but i was relentless in pursuing answers to questions the people there deserved. i didn't go with an agenda. i had never been there or know people there or know much about the culture. those are the most resilient,

patient people i've ever met in the face of disaster. >> charlie: thank you for coming. david begnaud. cbs news. back in a moment, stay with us. "mind hunter" is the new netflix series set in the 1970s. it depicts the behavioral science unit within the fbi. jonathan grof plays a travel agent interviewing convicted serial killers. here's a look at the trailer. >> it's not easy portraying people. it's hard work. physically and mentally i don't think people realize you need to vent. >> you + know there's a lot of more like me. >> you think so? >> 40 years ago your fbi was founded hunting down john dillinger.

now we have extreme violence between strangers. >> we travel around the country and teach fbi techniques to cops. >> she was found cuffed and latched to the bed. >> what people won't do to each other. >> how can we help? >> we should be using every resource we can. >> we talk to the smartest people we kind. >> are criminals born or are they formed? >> psychopaths are convinced there's nothing wrong with them so they're virtually impossible to study. you have found near perfect laboratory conditions. that's what makes it so potentially exciting and far reaching. >> it is not our job to commiserate with these. it's our job to electrocute them. >> you can't like everything we do. we're talking to serial killers. >> serial killers. >> i'm trying to warn you your attitude is going to bite you in the ass.

>> your developing a pattern of behavior that will not sustain you here. >> you leave i can't help you. >> there's no rule book for how to talk to these people. >> more. >> you have to get in the dirt with the pigs. >> how do we get ahead of crazy if we don't know how crazy think? >> charlie: joining me executive directo director david fincher and i have to say we just experienced a horrific thing happening. the questions that they're asking are the questions that your guys, your characters based on real-life people are asking. what makes these people do this? >> i think that's the -- if anybody has interest in true crime it's always that, right.

always the thing you can't quite touch or get at. you don't understand what makes them do what they do. >> charlie: is it insanity or not? >> well, there's obviously a huge argument against an insanity plea when shot blocker has plotted to carefully not to be caught. >> charlie: they know the difference of right and wrong. >> exactly. if somebody has gone through the motions and fantasized for long enough they've worked out all the problems so is there an insanity defense there? probably not. >> charlie: just based in your characters what questions would you be asking were in las vegas, the characters you play. can't talk to him. he shot himself. >> nobody lives to be in their 60s and suddenly wakes up one

day and decides to commit mass murder without any kind of warning signs without any previous criminal behavior of any kind. i would be trying to figure out what were the things that led him to that point that he did that. >> charlie: which brings me to this subject. what was it your character -- the approach -- i don't want to say empanely but what was the approach -- empathy but when was the approach to say where's he coming from to the young agent who believes there's a better way of trying to figure this out. >> i think on the show we're trying to see if we can fake empathy in order to understand the impossible to understand. i think along the way we glean

information and the show takes place in the late '70s where the information and the idea of doing this was very new. they acquire systems of labelling and compartmentalizing the different kinds of killers. but ultimately part of the reason people are so fascinated with serial killers, endlessly, is because you can ask as many questions as you want to and i don't know if you'll ever get an answer. >> charlie: or if they even know. you, sir -- >> i'm apologizing in advance. >> charlie: what is it about you? >> nobody sent me the remake of "breakfast at tiffany's." >> charlie: would do you that over? >> i don't know. i can only fall back on my -- i can't apologize enough. >> charlie: but we can fall back on things you've done before. there is something within you that ask where did aberration

come from. >> certainly when we were doing the rounds at quantico and what it had to offer. you round the corner under the library and there's a life sized wax or fiberglass rendering of hanniba hannibal lechter and john doe and the seven came around the same time and they were in the mold of the serial killer as wily e. coyote, super genius and i talked to the woman who was giving us the tour she asked is it going to be like silence of the lambs. i said no, i don't want to talk about the gourmet opera expert who -- to me these are very sad

people who have grown up under horrendous circumstances. this is not -- this is not to overstate how much empathy or sympathy we should have for them but it's simply a fact and we've seen so much of this sort of literary conceit of a fine line separates the hunters from the hunted. i thought it was time to take that back and make it really the reason that we are fascinated with them is because we're nothing like them. they are unfathomable. we -- >> charlie: you've looked at a number of them. do they share any common -- >> of course. there's a lot of commonality. the show is a series of conversations. >> charlie: somebody brought a book. >> the king of profilers. >> charlie: for the fbi.

you two, tell me about the dynamic of the two characters. that the part of the dynamic, is it not? >> here's what -- there are two guys the characters are based on and one of them is not with us any longer and one was a creative consultant with the show. and once we got into the time to divide the mythology, who did what, who went where and who was the first person to say x it got extremely complicated so joe pentonhahl the head writer of the show decided i need to be able to divide this leg work as i need in order to dramatize it because we'll never be able to -- so he was the one who said i'm going to call this guy this and then i'm going to make a crazy quilt of whatever behavioral impetus i need. >> charlie: but when he comes

talking about these ideas, your character is what? you look at it with skepticism or convince me? this is not my experience, you have to convince me? >> when we meet bill tench the character i play. he's in a failing marriage and an adopted son with whom he has a difficult relationship and hurts the marriage and he's not interested in the politics and the-nosing, if you will, he would need to do in order to got a promotion and he travels around the country and teaches the latest investigative techniques to local cops. in a sense he's running away. i think of him as floundering. he's almost forgotten why it was so important he be an fbi agent and what happens when holden, jonathan's character comes into

my life, his youth and his passion and enthusiasm and his intelligence really kind of revitalize me in a sense and make me remember what it was i loved. >> charlie: what is it that you have other than youth and enthusiasm? is it a new idea? what has made you different? >> i think one of the things that's interesting about the show is when you meet holden in the first episode, he's a little lost. the very first scene in the show he's in a hostage negotiation situation and a guy shoots himself in the face and he goes to the fbi and he says i did everything by the book and somebody died and i'm really confused and perhaps we're going about this in the wrong way. i think it's symbolic of hoover

was running the fbi up until the early '70s and there was this black and white vision of what crime was. it's like go get the bad guys and then we succeeded. the arab '70s was coming into the fbi and holden meets this girl getting her ph.d. and studying socialiology so he gets his mind blown and has this existential crisis and look for purpose and meaning and a better way to run his work at the fbi and gets stuck with this guy teaching behavioral science and through a strange set of circumstances finds himself sitting across the room from ed kemper who we now know is the serial killer. >> charlie: here's the scene. >> it's research. >> research?

>> a series of interviews. chatting with individuals not unlike yourself. >> we're just talking. i don't get to go some place and do a bunch of tests? >> no, just right here. >> why? >> because i believe it could be useful. >> talking about what? well, i don't know. you're behavior, i guess. if you want to, that is. i mean, we don't have to talk about anything at all if you don't want to. >> why are you so tense? >> hmm? >> your tense -- right now. >> no, i'm not tense. >> charlie: now, hold that thought. take a look at this. this is holt's character talking

to jonathan about the same inquiry. >> he's telling you what he's guessed you want to hear. >> why would i want to hear that? >> you're you. you told him about your university education and sassy girlfriend and he tailored his answers to fit. why did you tell him that stuff? >> too loosen him up. >> why did you feel the need to tell him about the girlfriend. he's your subject. be objective. >> i have to trust my instincts on this. >> in fairfield, iowa you were in the dark ages and now you have unimpeachable instincts? >> it's been a process. >> no doubt what happened in there was a profound experience but i have to have you understand that there's a distinct possibility he's manipulating you.

>> charlie: okay. so let's talk with the scene. first you, with the reputation you have for taking more than one take >> we did two or three. >> charlie: that little scene was two days? >> it was longer than that. there's potential for comedy built into the wide-eyed innocent agent across the table from this giant person. i was doing all the schtick in the takes and finding all this schtick and the line where he says why are you so tense and i say i'm not tense. in the previous takes i'd been

doing this schtick of i'm not tense and all this stuff. david goes, why don't you do nothing? this is like the middle of the second day. to me it changed the whole energy of the moment and took way the actory comedic schstick. >> charlie: that's why your david fincher. >> one of the millions of reasons why he's david fincher but that's one of them. >> charlie: you worked with him in a couple small roles. >> i was in david's first movie, "alien 3" and then i had a role in "fight club" but this is the first time i was invited back in a major part. for me it was a great honor. >> charlie: here's what you said it almost made all the years of struggle worth it. i felt like i graduated in a way. >> that's correct. and i've said this brin

interviews one of the wonderful things about television is you get to explore a character in much greater detail than a movie or play. have you more time you have more real estate. you can find yourself in many circumstances. >> that's an important thing. we cast jonathan. it was important to me i don't have the wet blanket. that i don't have the guy who's just going, i'm not interested in this. i needed an actor to be jonathan 20 years later the monolithic bureaucracy has taken it out of him and he has a callous. in order to do that i need an

actor who has enormous sensitivity and working with holt as many times as i have, i keep wishing i would have a part with him that had more. that had theory attached to other ideas and to offer somebody where you say hey, we could be doing this five years from now are you ready to dig? >> charlie: did you see this as a television series rather in that two-hour film? >> oh, yeah. two hours and no closure is probably -- get a babysity and find parking and wait in line and people with their phones on with your peripheral

vision -- that's asking a lot. i also think this is. >> charlie: we love conversations. >> it's difficult when you're an executive producer you have to find other directors because you can't direct the whole thing. ten hours is too much. other directors you give them an 11-page scene and say there's this movement and then this pivot and then it moves. it's terrifying. the guys we found interesting hi enough some from documentaries and another one was a writer who

had mede a film with riveting scenes where people talk into a speaker phone. >> charlie: when i started the program i said our conceit is that we believe people love conversation and they'll want to see it if it's real, engaging, passionate, you know. they'll be drawn to it. you don't need a fancy set or anything. you just need two people or more that are engaged by -- >> there's movements in the way people their agenda and try to understand and look for clarification and that stuff can be as interesting as people running through the street showing their badges. >> charlie: did you want him because he was great as king george iii.

>> i hadn't seen that. i met jonathan casting the social network and he was amazing and riveting. it was for sean parker. and i thought, the one thing that jonathan doesn't have access to that i have to have is he has to have a little venality. and you can't fake it. he has -- there was a little bit of the oily salesman, just a tiny bit. >> charlie: in sean parker. >> not offense to scene -- sean parker because i've not met him but i needed to know he would make 10%. i say this often but i think part of what makes a great

performance is, at some level, you shoot a 14-hour day and six days a week, at some point people are going to be exhausted. there has to be an inherent thing in the actor you can't beat out of them with a tire iron. that you know is always going to be -- it's always underneath that surface. curiosity, decency. and with holden, i think people mistakenly think of it as earnestness but it's a hunger to be better. it's a hunger to understand. >> charlie: we are living in the

midst of a podcast boom with the rise of mobile more people are consuming content in transit than ever before. podcast has also benefitted from the power of audio.gd6h james walcott of vanity fair writes, when the guests are compelling and the conversation covers the drum kit the hands of the clock disappear and i feel i've enjoyed a second-hand human experience. my guests are leading the revolution. alex blumberg of gimlet media and paula szuchman of wnyc studios and jed abum rad the creator and co-host of radio lab and "more perfect." tell me how this come to being and use to such popularity so

fast? was it filling a need or was it -- >> i don't know. i hope so. maybe the first and second. i'm a public radio refugee and i still live in the world of public radio. for me it feels a little bit like we were making a show for ten years and suddenly the podcast app appeared on the phone and it blew up. the thing we suddenly do was baked into smartphones. that really launched things. suddenly we have companies now making it and it feels like the world is expanding. >> charlie: everybody i know is thinking about it. >> it's a very easy barrier to entry the same way blogging did ten years ago. it's a people to get at you. right between the ear and nothing between the two of you. it's very intimate and it feels

like it's a close touch point. it gives people a platform that they can't necessarily have if they're trying to find a tv show or get a book published. that's also contributed a bit. >> charlie: what do the most successful ones have? >> they have intimacy. they have personalities that you are people you want to hang out with that you want in your ear and your head. there is no closer you can be to someone. from the early stage i've been in podcasting since 2005 just shortly after it started. we found when you put together people -- a group of people that the audience felt connected with they felt like they were sitting at a table with them and having dinner and going out for drinks. they were listening to their friends talk about something. and they responded in that way as though they joined a club or went to a dinner party. >> charlie: it makes me think i've been doing a podcast all these 5 years.

-- 25 years. >> i think there's a couple reasons. one is the companionship things and people like to be told a story. the best podcasts you sit down and also a big thing is people learn things and the best ones combine all three. what chad does is like they like you and hang out with you and they're learning stuff and they're being told a story. and i think when you do all three you're doing something special. >> charlie: what about you? >> i make a show called "radio lab" and recently a spinoff called "more perfect." it's as alex said, he started on this american life a million years ago. for me that was the model.

the idea is to tell these gripping personal stories that lead to you a moment of wonder where you think with the world differently and you're changed. you want every story to have that transformation moment. that's what we try and do. radio lab does it about all kinds of things and more perfect is taking stories about the supreme court and like who are these people and what are these ideas. >> what's the conflict and what is this country, these come before the court. >> charlie: has this been an opportunity for women? >> speaking as a woman, i can say, yes. it's been incredible. there were research done a couple years ago about how few women there were hosting the podcasts i think it was 20% in 2013. it's been pretty dominated by men like many things.

that number has gone up 23% and it's our goal and mission to get women's voices out there. i think podcasting can be a real agent for change. in that sense it feels like a feminist medium. i think it gives a platform to people. you had jessica williams on here recently. her podcast was something we developed and that's our show and we get -- and it's a platform for women, women of color, people who would otherwise not get the millions and millions of people listening to them that they wouldn't without the podcast and we get people writing in all the time for one thing we get people saying they want to join wnyc and we get people saying i never heard myself represented before. i'm hearing my stories in a way i never have before. it's very powerful and we have a

women's podcast coming up in a couple weeks and we get women from all over the world to come and sort of learn from each other and develop skills and be mentored and, yeah. >> charlie: is it becoming remun remunitive? >> you can make billions. come join us. >> charlie: part >> podcasts ads are among the highest cpm, cost per thousand of listeners of anything. they're in some cases two and three times higher than super bowl ad rates. >> really? >> yes, but the audience is much smaller than the super bowl but the per listener numbers are higher. >> charlie: it's higher than the super bowl? >> yes. because the advertising is very -- to use the word again

intimate. often the hofts are the ones who talk about the product. it's a throwback to old radio. >> charlie: it's connected. >> in a lot of podcasts there's a clear line between the ad but a lot of the times the hosts are delivering the ad. at gimlet, my company, we'll take the same story-based approach to the ad and you have a connection with the listener. it's a way of humanizing brands. they're very effective. >> charlie: what changes are underway now? now that it has legs and has growth and now that it has traction with the american public, how is it changing? how is it evolving? is it offering more voices in a variety of formats? >> i think we're at the beginning of the next golden age of audio. if you think of audio in the old days before television and people sat around their radios

and you think of all the talent that came from the radio back then, orson welles and luciel ball and now with on demand you have a flourishing happening. you talked about fiction. i think fiction is going to be huge. we launched a fiction show called "homecoming" that's done very well. >> charlie: most people consume by mobile devices? >> and a lot of people multitask too. >> they go walking, doing the dishes, gardening. you don't need your eyes. that's the great advantage. >> something you can do on your phone while your phone's in your pocket. >> charlie: is it taking audience away from other mediums? >> i don't have the data to back it up but my sense is -- because

radio is the radio show and the podcasts. i think we're mostly a podcasts at this point but i think they're separate audiences. demographically they're separate. age wise the podcasts are younger. >> we live two lives literally. what's on the radio at one time and what are on the podcasts are separate content. >> we see a lot of sunday night listening and that's a big tv night. i still think of us as competing for people's free time, period. >> i think of it as a separate sphere. there's the listening time the commute and workout and the subway and there's times you can look at a screen which are

mostly -- i don't know. i feel like podcasting has it own enclave. >> i think when people are gripped by a podcast it can te over and replace other things they were doing. certainly reading. >> i see what you're saying you will make decisions about your leisure time. >> everybody seems to be measuring it differently. for a while we would all obsessively check the i tunes rank and it start to not make sense anymore.

certainly i'd put this american life -- >> and the spinoff serial and f town are all large. >> you're looking at like mpr is in terms of sheer reach the most. >> and there's another one. >> there are essentially two kinds. there's broadcast that is being time shifted and then there's original podcasting. you do one of each, for example. i think going back to what we're taking away from i do think as people get more and more used to having things on demand like they have a dvr and few people that get a dvr want to watch it on the network schedule. i think as podcasting becomes more popular and it grows every year, people will get used to time shifting and that could

spell some trouble for radio, i'm sorry to say. it may be a generational thing too but it's too convenient to set your own schedule. >> on the other happened, with the stage of national politics what it is you kind of can't compete with the day's events. i still obsessively turn on the news because who knows what crazy things will be on the news that day. >> charlie: on television >> or the radio. the currency of radio is more transactional and faster and it feels important. >> i think people who have tv shows, everybody knows them. podcasting is a medium where they can play in a way they can't in other more traditional media. >> charlie: you mean have fun? >> flex creative muscles, talk directly to the people they're interested in, interview people

and maybe they're actors and suddenly want to have conversations with people and allows people who know them to hear them in a different way and the people who don't know them to get to know them. it's part of the appeal. >> charlie: this is a clip from the giant pool of money. here it is. this is audio only. >> call it $540 for round figures. >> you borrowed $540,000 from the bank and they didn't chk your income? >> it's a no-verification loan. it's almost like you pass a guy in the street and say lend me $540,000. what do you do? i got a job. okay. it seems that casual though

there's stuff that gets filled out and stuff flies with the fax and e-mails. essentially that's the process. nobody i know would have loaned me the money and i know criminals that wouldn't lend me that money and they'd break my kneecaps so i don't know why i bank did it. i'm serious, $540,000. >> i remember everything about where i was when i had the interview. we were at a foreclosure haven't. that show i did as the producer of american life.

adam davidson a reporter for mpr the business correspondent and i teamed up to do this big hour-long on mortgage finance. we were trying to explain what was going on with the financial crisis. and we had no idea how to do it and nothing like that had ever been tried like that at this american life. for inspiration we looked to the show called radio lab and they had a two co-host set up and it effective. they were talking about these complicated things. the one person could be like wait, what are you saying and the other person would say i'm saying this and we ripped it off. thank you. >> i remember hearing that and that came out literally when it was all happening.

the world was melting. no one knew what was going on and that was the first thing i heard where it gave me that moment. the thing you were talking about earlier about incredible story telling but you also learn and it take your perspective and shakes your perspective. it was a moment where just for a moment like oh, that's why we're here. we sensed as a culture we analyze that moment and our history to death but it's very early. >> i remember i was at the wall street journal because i come from print and he had my entire life was about the mortgage meltdown and a heard that and i was like well, that humanized it. >> charlie: it's like movie. the movie accentuates the experience. >> that was a good movie.

>> i feel podcasting is where films were in the nineteen-teens and you may copy me and everyone is learning from each other. >> our lgbtq show we call it my american life but only gayer. totally original. >> charlie: so there's this. what will change podcast over next ten years? it will obviously have a growth trajectory but will it be technology or what? >> we're in great need of better technology. it's still not as easy as sitting in your care and turning on the radio.

my ideal would be you get in your car and turn on a podcast and it's still hard to find new podcasts you like. it's called the discovery problem -- >> charlie: why is that? you need a search engine or what? >> you can go to i tunes or apple podcast -- >> charlie: if have you the titlm tunes. >> the most popular way is to hear about it from a friend. >> and you have to tell somebody like download a thing. if you can be like, hear, i'm going send it to you that'd be awesome.

>> charlie: can you imagine taking something like this and it's a designated device like a kindle. >> the original podcasts were named after the ipod. >> it's a horrible name podcast. >> do you have ways to change that? >> i have no idea. i think for people who consume podcasts maybe they call it radio i hope. to the radio is not the box on the mantle anymore. >> i came from radio and it's easier to say.

podcast is a clunky word. >> charlie: thank you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

>> announcer: this is "nightly business report" hurricane hit. harvey and irma take a bite out of the u.s. labor market, leading to the first month of job losses in seven years. but there was plenty of good news too in this month's job report. stacked chips. this week's market monitor has three blue chips he thinks you need to own right now. and staying on course. how one entrepreneur is on a mission to fix what some called the broken business of student loans. all that and more for friday, october good evening, everyone, and welcome. for the first time since 2010, the u.s. economy lost jobs. most of the losses traced back to the hit