>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin tonight with a conversation with the president of argentina, mauricio macri. >> trying to increase commerce is the first challenge. so far, we didn't do much progress, but we are working. we are working. secretary rose is in charge and is trying to help. we are starting to export lemons. we need to solve the beef problem, the biodiesel problem and many other things. but there is a very good attitude from the government authorities to have a deeper and more -- and actual relation between the countries. >> rose: we conclude with "the washington post" columnist david ignatius talking about foreign

policy, saudi arabia, china and the united states. also his new book is called "the quantum spy." >> he does have a vision for where he wants to take saudi arabia, and many aspects of that vision i think people in the west would find attractive. the problem is that getting across this transition period is going to require a kind of authoritarian power that's going to be very uncomfortable for us. >> rose: macri a >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider

of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin tonight with the president of argentina, mauricio macri. he visited new york yesterday in honor of the five argentinian tourist who is died in the terrorist attack that took place in lower manhattan. i spoke to him today about the american society, we talked about argentina, their relationship with the united states and challenges facing the region. we begin by taking note of the recent attack. >> i wanted to be, if i was planning to come when that tragedy happened, i was willing more to be present here because we have to show one single attitude and one strong message against terrorism. they want us to panic.

they want us to freeze at home, to stop our lives, and we have to show them that we are developing the world. we know there are many things to be solved, still there is too much poverty around and we need to work together to solve all these type of problems but the way is through peace. the way is working together. terrorism proposes there is no future there. so i came and i thanked every new yorker that had expressed his pane because, at the end, five families were destroyed, 15 kids were left without fathers,

and these type of things have to be stopped as soon as possible. >> rose: it's been1/l two years sense you have been in office. you've had recent success since the election. give me a sense of what you wand to do and been able to do. >> since we met last, there was a doubt inside argentina and around the folder if it was real, this will for change in the argentinean community. i feel that the level of moderation of the community, the level of understanding of the real problems that create living so many years in a populist regime had been understood. so what happened in this mid-term election expresses with

real clarity that we are ready, we are ready to assume the effort that argentina needs, to reassume the importance of the culture of work, you know, and to have a society in which those ones that are engaged in the community that fulfill the law are going to be the winners. and not anymore a profession of cheaters like it happened for more than half a century in argentina. so what they had expressed was even though it had been hard, because as i was telling a group of businessmen at breakfast, populism is like going to a party where you get as much alcohol as you can and it's a lot of fun, but the next morning your head explodes.

that's populism. when it's finished, leaves a society bankrupt, without net worth, without infrastructure, and you have to start nearly from the beginning. but the citizens are ready, and they had assumed that we need to all put our best efforts, and starting from some elemental thing, basic thing that is paying the utility tariffs. they were giving the utilities for free so we are going to blackouts and infrastructure. >> rose: by risking nationaln bankruptcy they were willing to give things away to the people

or more than that? was it cultural or deeper? >> first, let me tell you that thanks to god many have come today with me in new york. we are all working together in this era. so that eliminates my critics -- ( laughter ) >> rose: it's a question i asked you before. >> but you know, you will find, if you analyze argentine history because the phenomenon is quite unique, that there were different parent and we are expressing what the last parent wanted to do and his illness did not give him time enough to take ahead. so i think we are all understanding we need to be part of the world.

isolationism only leads to poverty. we need to be part of the solutiono the global problems, not to add more problems. inside argentina, we need to work to be reliable, predictable, to have rule of law and that will allow sustainable development driven by investments, private investments, no? so we are working on that. in the past -- well, they go back and forward many times during the cycles but now i think they will have the chance to restart the party with this clear and different idea that is shared by 90% of the world. >> rose: so you're creating new parties and reforming old

parties? >> no, they have to reform their party. ( laughter ) i have a lot of work to keep the coalition working. that's working out. i don't want to take extra jobs. ( laughter ) i leave that job for the governor and many other members of the congress of the party. >> rose: you travel with all parties -- >> we have such a success in this mid-term election, we don't have the majority of either of the two chambers, so we need to continue to have new laws to tackle fiscal deficit and inflation and those are the two

things to stabilize averagetynan economy. >> rose: will is add to economic reforms as well as changing institutions in argentina? >> absolutely. i had called to achieve basic consensus. in buenos aires, we had a meeting together with all the governors. when i call them, i call key leaders of the society, members of the justice, unions, governors, congress, business communities, and i told everybody, this is the moment, it's now or never. we have to achieve gradual use of fiscal deficit, we have to arrive -- >> rose: a gradual reducing? yes, 1% per year. >> rose: right. and we have to achieve a single digit inflation for 2019,

and we have to be all committed. fortunately, everyone is agreeing and understands that's the only way. we have to improve the justice system, more independent. we have to be all committed to repeal corruption in argentina forever. we have technology, we can digitize all the paper stuff in the governments. we have to have open governments, public access to information and we're in that process and everybody is working and doing their homework. >> rose: where is the resistance coming from? >> well, still a group of citizens tried to convince the rest of argentina to go back to the last 12 years, but today they express a minority that say

20%, 25% of argentina, but and i expect that every moment that we keep showing results will convince more and more argentines to be part of this new political stage. >> rose: what road do you want -- role do you want argentina to play in the region in foreign policy and in the world? >> first we have to show that we can get rid of populism, as we are doing it. i think that's a lot for the world that is going into populism in many places. ( laughter ) second, i think that we have to be more dynamic and join the pacific alliance as possible. higher protection is disaster, poverty in both countries.

now i think we are both convinced that we need to open our economies in an intelligent way, because you can go from one side to the other, the pendulum is always dangerous, but we are working hard to find an agreement, the first agreement with the european union, with japan and pacific alliance. so i am very optimistic about the process that has gone through the neighbors or partners, so i think good moments are coming for the region. >> rose: do you have targets for reducing protectionism? >> yes, yes, inside we had to deal with that together because we are part of the same block. but we are working to reduce terrorists, and i think i will start in this specific agreements, no, with european

union, and it's also a great opportunity because after brexit, we need more relations and wage in the commerce. so i think this exchange will be in both benefit. >> rose: when you look at political direction, latin america, you have trouble in venezuela -- >> venezuela started being a preoccupation, now it's a pain for all of us. i started talking about venezuela when i was mayor of the city, and they will say chavez is a democracy, it is not a democracy. now things have gotten worse and worse. i'm really scared about what's going on there because we don't see which is the way out.

the people are leaving, i think that's part of the plan, to push away the leaders that are still there trying to recover democracy. we have to keep working together to find a way to reestablish democracy in venezuela, that really affects the region but especially colombia, ecuador, brazil are really affected. >> rose: how do you see the emerging, even in today's "new york times" xi jinping talks about seeing china along with the united states as the two great powers in the world. how do you see xi jinping consolidating power in the 19th congress in beijing and the role it's going to play in the world? how does argentina respond? because china is an important trading partner of yours. >> china has been very aggressive in the region.

they have invested in finance in the previous government. that was unique. lending money to that government required great courage. >> rose: meaning they didn't expect to get paid back? >> that is what is going to happen in venezuela. they did the same thing in venezuela and i don't know if they are going to get the payback of $50 billion. and i feel it's a great opportunity for our region, for argentina. i think we combined well our capabilities. there are great buildings of infrastructure. argta needs to build huge -- argentina needs big

infrastructure. >> rose: how does that work with china? >> with the previous government, they sign very important, direct contracts. now they are participating in the process. i talked with president xi. i said we believe that the best way to increase cooperation is that you should come and take part in the future tenders thatz will clarify prices and relations and they are taking part and they have been very successful. we have just finished renewable tender, three renewable tenders. the last one will receive $11 billion of offers, two-thirds solar energy, one-third wind energy, and mainly our chinese contractors who won participated in the last one. so they have very good technology. >> rose: are they employing

chinese workers or argentine workers? >> no, argentine workers. they accept to come and work and teach our people. we intend to create jobs. my main commitment for my citizens is to reduce poverty and create jobs for argentineans. >> rose: when you talked to me previously and everything you have said, your primary responsibility is to decrease poverty. >> absolutely. >> rose: how are you doing on that front? >> there is some progress. we went from 33% to 28% in the last two semesters. but it's a long way to go, no? it's just the beginning. we also need to improve the quality of the public education. we're in a deep battle with the unions. it's difficult to understand, but they don't accept the deval

wages of the teachers -- the devaluation of the teachers and students. we say you need to know the mistakes you're making to correct them. if you don't have good information, it's impossible to improve the system. the citizens agree so we are going to do it even though the union will be trying to stop us. and in the other sense, we are trying to get rid of stupid and useless regulations that have discouraged investment many years to encourage private investments because that's the way to create jobs, and the growth of argentina we are having today is really directed and driven ribiinvestments, not by consuming, and that's healthy growth. and let me tell you that we have achieved after more than 100 years to reduce expenses, reduce

the fiscal deficit, reduce inflation, reduce taxes and growth is going on for the first time in more than 100 years and that is going to occur again next year. that shows why argentina is in the right momentum. >> rose: whation the relationship with -- what's the relationship with the united administration? >> very good. >> rose: what are the challenges to it, what do you hope to accomplish? >> trying to increase commerce is the first challenge. so far we didn't do much progress but we are working. we are working. secretary rose is in charge and trying to help. we are starting to export lemons. we need to solve the beef problem, the biodiesel problem and many other things, but there is a very good attitude from the

government authorities to have a deep around more actual relation between the countries. so we are working very well and we are working also very well in something that's as important as the commerce, that's defeating drug trafficking. >> rose: yes. for us, that's another priority and we've done a lot of work. for the first time in many, many years, we've worked together and are very happen put in that because fighting against truck trafficking is related with terrorism, they're all part of the organized crime, so we have to work together in that. it's been very important, we established relations with the u.s. government in that sense. >> rose: latin america often felt like america's attention was in europe or asia? asia. do you believe that?

>> well, obviously the future of the world is related with what relanes we will achieve between the states, china and europe, no? we are all waiting and watching what is going on. >> rose: my question is what is your message to president trump to say to him america has a vital interest in argentina? >> in the past, being far from the center is a problem. now is like a good thing. >> rose: what does that mean? what we feel is when you go to energy supply, especially renewables, when you go to food security, when you look for young, talented people, it's very difficult to find a better region than south america. so i think this is our moment,

and i think that should not be very intelligent if the united states has been the first partner of south america's from so many years, leave that place to china or japan or to any other region. no, this is the moment in which you have to be present and be there and invest to develop the region and really establish the whole continent is stable and a good place to live. >> rose: what's the most important question investors in argentina looking at the history before you were there and looking at what hope they may have because you're there, what's the most important question they want answered in order to commit their own -- >> all these reforms are going to last. >> rose: exactly. and how do you answer that? >> i answer that saying that,

this time, i am the president because the citizens were looking for a change. not because i convinced them of the change. i feel they have understood. they have learned about our mistakes. they have learned being potentially a very rich country is not enough. you have to develop those resources. and for developing those resources, you have to have rule of law, you have to have clear rules. you have to try stop the cheating and corruption. >> rose: protection. protection. that comes thanks to the new generation, they can't even think of not being part of the world because they are all on the internet through the whole day, so they live in the world. >> rose: they live in the

global world. >> they live in the global world. that's a fact, no? so what i feel is that i'm representing what they wan and i think that everybody is understanding that. that's why the leaders oftz opposition are coming here to new york in this trip with me or -- >> rose: are you saying to them -- i should ask them -- but are you saying to them let's try something different, give this a chance? >> absolutely. >> rose: perhaps we can work together -- >> and we are working together. in the past, the history was the one that won the election never called the others. the day after we won the election, we call all of them and say let's sit down and i'm finding this basic consensus. >> rose: did you do that because you knew the other way would fail, that unless you took it in a new direction you would end up --

>> i feel that we have to answer that question i can't answer it by myself. it could last two years more maybe six but not forever. everybody be sure that this is forever, they have to be present and they have to accept what we are doing. unfortunately, we need them because we don't have the majority of the congress. south the only way. and the good news is that it's working very well. >> rose: what's happened in the case of albert nisman? >> we don't know. we need to know what happened. that's part of clarifying our future. >> rose: you need to know who did it. >> yes. >> rose: are you confident you can find that? >> we are working.

we are working to have all the resources they need to go ahead with the invitation. we need the truth in every sense in argentina. i promised my people to tell always the truth. i live my whole life saying the truth. there are more advantages you have when you tell the truth. it's quite what happens here. i always admire from the americans white is white, black is black. ( speaking foreign language ) that doesn't work. i don't like that even if you have more fun in italy than here. we need to create future and jobs for many people so we need to clarify things. >> rose: thank you for being here. a pleasure to have you and to see you again and i know this

audience is interested to know where you're taking your country. >> well, the thank you. ( applause ) >> rose: david ignatius is here. he is a columnist for "the washington post," covered national security and the middle east for almost three decades and the best selling author of ten espionage thrillers, the latest "the quantum spy," set in a race between the united states and china to build the world' first quantal commuter. we'll talk about that later but also saudi arabia, the middle east, president trump's trip to china and the rest of asia. i'm pleased to have david ignatius back at this table, welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: saudi arabia first. just explain to us what's going on and what are the risks for

mbs. >> crowmohammad bin salman al s, strong, set his course on modernization first. he wants to change the kingdom, allow women to drive, to attend public events with men. he has a vision of privatizing big saudi businesses like saudi ramco. saudi arabia needs to become a modern country. at the same time pb m.b.s. wants

to consolidate power in his own hands so he can force change and combat iran. he regards iran as a threat to saudi arabia and the region. so you have an attractive side, the push for modernization and change, drive against corruption which is the reason for the arrests publicly announced on saturday the good side. the bad side is saudi arabia is becoming a place of one-man rule. it's becoming if he's not careful more autocratic and controlling and more like a police state. the problem is once you start a process like this you push harder and harder. you arrest dozens of people and what do you do to their power centers? all the people behind them? you have to control even tighter, turn the screws even more. >> rose: what are the people he is overthrowing going to do? >> we don't know yet. >> rose: your point is it's not just them. there is a whole army of people

that supported them. >> a prime example, one of the people he arrested is head of saudi national guard, the former king's son. the national guard in saudi arabia has traditionally been the center of tribal power. anabdullah when crowned prince maintained the national guard as alternative to the army how he reached out to traditional power centers in the kingdom. when you pull his son, who do you put in his place? how do you make sure that that institution stays loyal to you, mohammad bin salman, the crown prince? there is no good answer. same with the security service. there is an internal security service and foreign security service. who's going to control those

services? will the professionals feel comfortable in the new environment? we don't know. the m.b.s. needs to be careful as he tries to establish greater control he doesn't create new problems. >> rose: where is the crown prince he overthrew in all of this because he's under house arrest? >> the former prince has essentially disappeared, was replaced suddenly last summer by m.b.s. >> rose: first move. first move in the consolidation, the power play. he wanted to be sure he would be able to succeed his father, king isman who is 81. he has a violation where he wants to take saudi arabia. people in the west would find it

attractive. getting across the transition period is going to require a kind of authoritarian power that's going to be very uncomfortable for us. >> rose: absolute power corrupts absolutely. >> saudi arabia is not easy to governorren. earlier rulers found tribal stive was too difficult so they balanced. one cost was the saudi religious establishment was empowered in ways we've seen around the middle east, the negative consequence. m.b.s. wants to break it. does he have the power to control, curtail religious establishment? we don't know. >> rose: there was a balance between the royal family and the religious -- >> the balance between the house of saud and the religious leadership is the foundation of modern scrape, the two pillars on which the country rested.

m.b.s. is trying to create a different power, a unitary executive, one sense very modern. i think his model is xi jinping in china. xi jinping tried to make the party more efficient and enhance his personal rule. that's what m.b.s. is trying to do with an anti-crushen drive, he doesn't have the party to purify that. the only thing is the royal familiar will you. >> rose: where is the trump administration on this? >> i think one explanation for why m.b.s. moved so decisively is the trump administration, the president, jared kushner senior advisor are all in with vaibz saudi arabia and m.b.s. i think mime pompeo unlike john (en who was close to baniaf,

pompeo is strongly behind m.b.s. and that's been a factor. we don't know whether the u.s. gave a formal green light but the fact jared kushner was inside saudi arabia only a few days before the events happened makes you think that at a minimum m.b.s. felt he had strong support from the administration and could go forward with what he wanted to do. >> rose: some will suggest that the idea of this began because of all the obvious things you have been talking about, the desire to modernize reform, the desire to eliminate competition, the desire to make sure you became the king and all kinds of things but this was not -- this got some momentum after president trump came to riyadh in may. >> so trump's visit to riyadh is first foreign trip i think is the cornerstone of trump's middle east policy.

trump made a bond with mohammad bin salman and father and made saudi arabia the centerpiece of what he is trying to do, the broad effort to restrain iranian power. he signed on to their agenda and vice versa. this is a close relationship. it was born before the inauguration and the meetings jared kushner had with saudi officials. i think a lot of this was pre-discussed. but that's why this young man 32 years old i think feels involved to take these radical actions. >> rose: people know him think what of him? >> so i've met him several times. what i make of him, i think he is brash, bold, the kind of personality that takes the air out of a room. he commands people's attention. he has a tend i is to be

impulsive, to start th he's not sure how to finish. best example is the war in yemen. he went to war in yemen soon after his father became king and the yemen war, whatever you want to say about iranian involvement and supporting the houthis in yemen, hasn't gone well for saudi arabia. the last weekend the saudis were saying it was an act of war by iran shooting a missile toward riyadh. whether this is the worked of iran or not, having people shooting missiles at your capital is not a good situation. that's a situation where m.b.s. boldly moved out believing many his ability to transform the situation and saudi arabia's power and so far that confidence has not been born out by events. >> rose: do you think the people of saudi arabia want reform? >> i'm struck by the hunger of younger saudis for a different kind of world. >> rose: they see what the rest of the world is like? >> they just look at their phones.

they're in the same connected world you and i are. they look at the phones, see what the world is, feel connected with each other in a new way and i think they do want a new world. i think they look at the royal family, 10,000 princes supping at the public trough, makes them angry. in that sense, m.b.s. understand younger saudis want different kingdom. he's counting on them to break the power of the traditional royal family consensus nu the president is in asia meeting with xi jinping. clear signs xi jinping will have huge pageantry. president is looking forward to this. wants to talk to x xi jinping, vladimir putin about getting on board against north korea, trade. will he be successful? >> i think the atmosphere will

be of a successful trip. xi jinping wants this to be mar-a-lago two. i thin they want photographs of smiling leaders, maybe of the leaders' grandchildren, this idea of the united states and china shaking hands, establishing a partnership for future stability in asia and the world. i think that's what the chinese want and also what trump wants. >> rose: but i was interested in today, i think may have been the "new york times" or your paper, the idea xi jinping is talking about china and the the united states, he wants to join the united states in ruling the world. >> i think china coz see a g-# world. >> rose: because it rejected that in the past. >> it has -- >> rose: saying we have to focus on other things. >> the chinese, the traditional program that western analysts use to describe the chinese approach was hide and bide, meaning "tonight show" your power too openly.

bide your time till you're stronger. i think the chinese look at their own country as much as they look at the united states in kind of retreat from its role in global leadership and says the time has come. you know, if you looked at the details of what xi announced at the party congress last month, he was announcing china's arrival as a dominant global force and laid out an agenda not simply through the end of his tenure in 2020-whatever it is but through 2050, halfway through the century, he laid out a series of very clear benchmarks for chinaa and chinese power. technology is an example. the cheese are talking about dominating a.i., quantum computing. every ajor technology the chinese want to be number one. >> rose: committed to building great universities, leading the way in sense, finding the most efficient ways to create

alternative fuels whether wind, solar -- >> he talks about the china dream. the china dream means establishing this global mastery of the instruments of power. don't nine to say this is necessarily threatening but the chinese see they're building a great civilization, economy and want to be recognized as that and i think trump's deal is help us on our problems, north korea, trade, other issues, and we want to help you be the great nation you want to be. good idea? we'll see, if p the chinese push at all the seams, people look back and say it was a mistake to cede to easily to chinese power. >> rose: is the relationship worse with donald trump than barack obama?

>> no, i think it's better. i think the chinese have seen trump as someone who's prepared to be a disruptor. eng they remember initially shocked to suggest he might have more direct dealings with taiwan -- >> rose: china was one of the principal villains of his campaign mples yes, talked about china raping the american economy. >> rose: taking our jobs. i think the chinese were worried. that's what trump wanted. the chinese were destabilized, what trump wanted.y)vñ meanwhile jared kushner was setting the table for the personal meeting -- >> rose: do people you talk to worry xi jinping is more skilled and talented and experienced than donald trump and make take the measure of him?

>> to me xi is the most effective and decisive leader in the world today period. i think you look at what xi has done in the last five years, i don't see a move to consolidate power, decisive use of the leavers of power that's remotely like what she has done. donald trump sex personsed, new to the job, has no political background. >> rose: so therefore. you rook at theú look at the two, xi is more experience. >> rose: rex tillerson has dealt with people at the highest levels of leadership. >> my worry is a point where trump is kissñi mantelling the traditional structures or at least the kind of surrounding

scaffolding of american power questioning our alliances, focusing on america first as he so often says that he's creating something of a vacuum and into that come the chinese who are ready to take a greater role in globalzv leadership. >> rose: the beginning of january -- >> there was xi jinping making the speech americans traditionally would like about global leadership. >> rose: and markets. and project themselves as the protector of that wor and those values. i think that's the danger for the u.s. long-term if we cede to china we will be on our wack foot for a long time. >> rose: there are things we can do, better relationship with india, japan and vietnam and some of the other asian

countries who fear the rising power of china. >> yes, i would credit trump for putting a lot of stress on the u.s.-japan relationship. i think that's very sensible. japan is a key power in the nation. we often forget how important japan is. trump and abe have hut it off. that's important in a balance to china. >> rose: bob mueller, we saw indictments last >> of manafort and his aide. more interesting, the plea agreement with george papadopolous, someone who's of us never heard of. >> rose: the big question as to whether michael flynn might come been the purview -- >> we never want to pre-judge the decisions about whether somebody is going to get indicted or not. >> rose: it is the question? it is the question.

there's a lot of issues that mueller has to work with. it's clear from some of the3éi recent leaks miewcial will try to squeeze flynn into making a plea agreement so he doesn't have to indict him and gets the cooperation he's had from papadopoulos. there was speculation therein was cooperating. that's less likely to me now. >> rose: what does putin want? i always said he wants to walk back to a global acceptance. russia was isolated, sanctioned after it invaded ukraine and i think putin wanted to be taken back into the family snowof influential. >> they're puffed up, wearing a better suit, the family of influential, g8, the club of cleerdz who matter. >> rose: he went to syria. he went to syria, exercised power aggressively, did all

those things. you think he wand a road back. i thinñrfrom their perspective e you would have to say this is an effort to manipulate, to shape american politics that backfired. russia now has more enemies. every member of congress lines up to say negative things about russia. >> rose: and everyone is worrying about whether they might be under the same kind of viewed scriewt any, hacking, cyberinvasion. >> he has created the antibodies to russian power and manipulation that are now make europe and europe's reaction to russia different for decades. >> rose: do you think america is abandoning its leadership in

the world? >> i worry we're retreating. charlie, you know as well as anybody, american power is so diffuse. it seeps into every crevice in the world, our companies, banks, technology, leadership, way of doing things, the ear that you breathe if you're in the global economy. in that se, american power is persistent, resilient, it's bigger and stronger than any individual president. barack obama didn't really weaken it. donald trump may be weakening it some. but i think there's durability. over time, you know, if the united states is in disagreement with key allies, withdrawing from key international agreements like the one on climate change, the world will begin to look different but there take a long time. our engine is running so fast it will take a long time for it to

run down. >> rose: is there a growing sense this white house is not fit to run the presidency? >> i think there's a worry, as i've written, this is a hollowed-out administration, that in terms of the process of making national security policy, there are too many unfilled positions. some of the people in key positions aren't strong enough. we have in general mattis an outstanding formerleader, former yrl who is a strong secretary of defense. rex tillerson is an experienced person that knows the world but he is undercut by the president and doesn't seem to care about being secretary of state and running the bureaucracy, so i think this is a worry about the sructure, the process and that the president is erratic and impulsive. when anything seems to be criticism he lashes out.

there are times when you wasn't a leader to be calm and kind of settle down. >> rose: people suggest he member unstable, you think that's going too far. >> it's not a word i would feel comfortable using. i think you look at the tweeting style, the tweet storms and you see that he does react very impulsively when he's criticized. somebody says even the relatively modest criticism and he -- so what's that all about? is there somebody who will say mr. president, you know, i wouldn't send that tweet, circumstances i really think there is a time to be calm and quiet. i don't know if that person exists or if the president would listen. >> rose: quantum spy, thriller by david ignatius. david ignatius writes big deal spy novels that big de'l people in hollywood make movies out of them. when i talk to my silicon valley friends and say tell us about the future, they say you know

about artificial intelligence, augmented reality and virtual reality, they say do you know about quantum computing? i say no. they say it's ten times more powerful than computing. what is quantum computing? >> quantal computer unlike any traditional computer in which the logic bits are either zero or one, the quantum computer are made up of cube its that are simultaneously zero and one and multiplies vastly think about it all the connections the power of this machine to solve problems. it's said a quantum computer can explore every possible solution to a problem simultaneous will you and alive at the answer in a flash. the example that's used that is the reason that our national security agencies are so interested in this technology is the ability to crack encryption, to factor enormous numbers created by multiplying prime

numbers together and to factor them, there is a, you know, dissolve the encryption scheme, quantum computer could solve a problem thatñr would take an ary of existing computers thousands of years to solve, it can do it in minutes or second, that's how fast it is. it's a fast order of magnitude. different. whoever gets this quantum computer first is going to have national security. there are a lot of people who saist theory ten years ago, now coming at us. in my novel i describe a quantum-like computer that already exists. i've seen it work. i've seen it solve problems, i have been to all these places as i do when i'm researching the the books. >> rose: a quantum computer could be essential to cyber security, digital war fair, all the things that will determine who controls the world, fair enough? >> the first person to get a quantum computer will have a

mast riof digital space for the time it's possessed awe roan will be unmatched. i liken this race between chain and the united states to the manhattan project. >> rose: the united states and germany. >> to build the first nuclear weapon. this is not a weapon that will destroy the world but will allow whoever hast to control the world. >> rose: who is hair res chang. >> the hero of my book. crail officer, served in iraq. he is as his name clearly implies an american chinese dissent assigned by the agency to recruit agents within china's intelligence service. >> rose: a race between china and the united states? >> book has two basic themes, one is we talked ant quantum commuting and technology. the other is the battle going on between our intelligence service, c.i.a. and the chinese

intelligence service the ministry of state security which is just a bitter bitter fight. we all flow about the k.g.b. and successor. the chinese are just as interesting. >> rose: does he have qualms. hair res qualms doesn't begin with moral qualms but as he gets deeper into the story an most spy sores we go through a kind of maze of different movements by the characters. hair res chang increasingly wore res he's being manipulated by his side and the chinese side but he's in the middle. >> rose: the haul of mer roars. >> the quantum ae is the person who is once the zero and one and that's our hero. >> rose: the quantum spy by

david ignatius. have you sold this to the movies? >> we're talking about et. we'll have to talk to create i've >> rose: thank you, david. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visi, visit vs online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

>> announcer: this is "nightly business repor with tyler mathisen deal breaker? at&t's proposed mega acquisition of time warner just hit a major snag. and it came from the justice department. doing the math. the gop's tax bill numbers don't add up. and that could prove to be a major obstacle. open enrollment. when choosing your benefits for next year, you don't want to make any costly mistakes. those stories and more tonight on "nightly business report" for wednesday, good evening, everyone. welcome. i'm sue herera. tyler mathisen is off tonight. an $85 billion merger hangs in the balance. at&t has reportedly been told by theartment of justice that it needs to sell time warner's