♪ "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the generous support of roslyn p. walter. >> good evening, everyone. and welcome to "amanpour" on pbs. at a time of unprecedented tension between the presidency and the press, a new movie "the post" is incredibly well timed. it features two hollywood giants, tom hanks and meryl streep, playing two giants of journalism. the legendary washington

>> the pen is so sharp. of course it's punitive. she compared tricia nixon to a vanilla ice cream cone. >> yes, she did. >> yes. why would her father want her to come? >> i mean, come on. >> i mean, are you sure we're striking the right tone, ben? the news style section.

the party coverage -- i've talked to you about this before. you are losing female readership. and i think you might want to focus more on women -- >> katherine, keep your finger out of my eye. >> you -- >> meryl streep, tom hanks, welcome to the program. >> nice to be here. >> so incredible film, and really what incredible timing. steven spielberg called it a patriotic film. would you agree? >> oh, absolutely. hing that gets down to the bottom of an assault on the first amendment and proves that a free press is one of the pillars of our democracy, i think that's a pretty patriotic message to put out. the original script i read was about the week katherine graham

became katherine graham. and the fold-in of all the, you know, a president that was trying to thwart the truth, attacking and delegitimizing the press, carrying it all the way to the supreme court, as well as the reality of what a woman faced in the board room when things are supposed for ameritcracy. put that all together, and this ends up being a cauldron for 2018 now, that when you can go back and study history and see how it relates to now, you realize this ongoing fight to form a more perfect union is as american as apple pie. >> i'm struck by what you see, it's the week that katherine graham became katherine graham. and she did become one of these -- the most amazing ceos who believed in equality, that was good for the business, and she was brave because she went

against her own group of friends, her own tribe. she was so friendly with robert mcnamara and all the cabinet secretaries. when you tried to internalize that, and you always do a great job of looking and sounding exactly like her. what were you aiming for in that portrayal? >> i was aiming really to portray a woman of my mother's generation, who confronted a moment in the '70s when everything changed for women. i mean, it was sort of a breakout moment. at the time this film takes place, it's 1971, just a week and a half in that time. but it was when kent state was happening, all those -- all the social upheavals. she was a woman of another generation. and she was sort of on the fulcrum of a change. she was one of the few ceos. there were no female ceos of any

industry, any companies at that time. very, very rare. she was only this that position because she inherited it. her father owned the paper, he passed it to her husband when it came time, and she was basically 45 years old when her husband died. and the mantle of "the post" and 3,000 employees and everything fell to her. she didn't feel totally qualified to be there. >> actually, a clip we're going to may right now is when katherine graham is looking a little bit unsure at a breakfast with you, tom hanks, ben bradlee, the legendary editor of "the washington post," and you're not quite sure who is who's boss. >> so can i ask you a hypothetical question? >> oh, dear, i don't like hypothetical questions. >> i don't think you're going to like a real one, either. >> do you have the papers? >> not yet.

>> was ben the sort of driver of events or was katherine graham his boss? you can see that he was pushing her to this decision. >> i think the only way that ben was katherine's equal is in his desire to do great journalism. he was not the man who made the call, he was the man who pursued it and got it and had to present it in this manner of, so what are you going to do? he knew what the stakes were. i think ben was confounded by having the greatest job in the world. he loved what he did. he was a pirate and a beast and he was just a cad in so many ways. he loved his job, and he filled up a room in a big way. everybody knew when ben bradlee was walking in because of this joy and expertise that he exuded. but he was second place behind the washington star in washington, d.c., they had the number two or three paper, depending on what the week was. when "the new york times," one of the big boys, to get the

biggest story in the world, he was -- he salivated in order to play -- >> he wanted to catch up. >> he wanted to catch up, and when push came to shove, he had the paper that told the truth, and to publish them would be to run afoul of the justice department of the united states of america. well, unfortunately, that was below his pay grade. and fortunately, it was in hers. >> my decision, yeah. >> it was your decision. you, katherine graham, and of course, meryl, all the president's men barely registered katherine graham. she's like somebody that was airbrushed out of that history. do you feel that this film, with her as one of the central characters, is part of the reckoning that we're undergoing right now? is it really about giving her her due? >> i think people looked up and

recognized that they're more aware of who's not at the table and who's left out of history. because often the more colorful personalities like ben bradlee commandeer the attention. but where the responsibility lay, where the really hard decision, that was her. and the only reason that woodward and bernstein were able to carry through with the watergate investigation, that they had the confidence that they would be supported by the whole washington post organization, including all the television stations and everything, was because of the success of the pentagon papers, where they really in a moment of crisis, beat down the bad guys and they won. >> you were at the golden globes, you were all there wearing black. oprah winfrey on sunday night,

decided to give a speech that everybody, including yourself, says it was her -- launching her presidential bid. do you think she is? that's the gossip and the conversation around the water cooler. >> she's certainly raising the bar for whomever decides to run, because they better burn the barn in the same way. because it's just -- we realize how thirsty we are for that sort of return to a passionate adherence to our values and our principles as a country, as a people, men and women. and it's -- you can really pull a big army behind you with that kind of rhetoric and real feeling and smarts. i think she's amazing. >> some people have said you should be running for president. >> i've told him that often. >> as vp, i just hope president winfrey gives me occasional rides on air force one, the

helicopter she goes around in. this great thing that has been said about our country, anybody can grow up and become president of the united states, and our current chief executive has proven literally that anybody can become president of the united states. that is a sort of something that is hanging over us. and the possibility of someone that is incredibly smart and passionate, who is always putting forward a message of inclusion and cooperation and with the authenticity of someone who says i want to wake up every day and make the world and our country and your city and your neighborhood better than it is, i think that person is the type of president i like having in the united states. >> so you think it's a legitimate bid? would you support it? let's face it, she also is inexperienced in the matters of

running a country. >> she's run a major corporation that didn't go bankrupt three or four or however many times. yeah, i think she's more than qualified. intellectually she's qualified. her energy, her stamina, her passion. i think she's more than call feed. >> as for everybody growing up and thinking they can be president. for half of the population that's been true for our entire history. >> let me walk back the statement i just said. i'm so glad that you have enheightened me. and i became enlightened simply by listening to what you had to say. and i cannot argue with the empirical truth of what you just pointed out. there's a number of ways for history to be made here, and i think the first woman chief executive of the united states would need to have oprah winfrey's qualities. whether or not she sees -- look,

people joke around with me all the time, you make a good speech, you look good on tv. why don't you do it? that's not the same thing as someone who really may need to step in and say, boy, there's some heavy lifting that has to go on here. and i might have to do it. >> it is a fascinating moment. there is a sense that, well, anybody can do it. they can try. let me ask you about the triumph of truth that your movie "the post" pays homage to. in our era of fake news, alternative facts, at the golden globes, what you started there a year ago support of the free press and support of the committee to protect journalists. the hollywood press association announced a $1 million grant in donations to the cpj. how important is that do you think for you both? >> well, i mean, i think the press is under seek globally. we've seen so many journalists

jailed and exponentially greater numbers now. part of that feels like some kind of permission issued tacitly by the united states that says, you know, might makes right. if you want to shut it down, shut it down. and we've had journalists killed, jailed, famous ly the woman who brought out the panama papers in malta, the woman in russia. you know, the bad guys will always want to shut us down. >> you knew ben bradlee. >> i did. >> you played a journalist on broadway. what does it mean to you, the sanctity, the ability of a free and independent press to operate

unhindered? >> i go back to what daniel moynihan said, you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. there are empirical truths that are out there. it is very cold outside. say it's 42 degrees outside right now. 42 degrees is a number that you cannot argue with. two times 12 is 24. that's physics along with a truth that you have to accept. what tyrants do -- i study history and i read it for measure. what tie rayrants have done, ba the point where they were printing clay tablets with hieroglyphics were to denigrate, in this case, let's fast forward, tyrants want to denigrate people that go out before the state. the journalists who go out and try to determine what the truth is. and in the united states of america, by and large, have the -- have the functionality in

order to make sure you don't print it until it is confirmed. tyrants want to delegitimize any effort to do that, and say no, no, we have the truth, so you have to believe us. the next thing they do is try to put those truth tellers out of business, and they do everything they can. in some cultures they take sledge hammers to printing presses and slice the necks of women journalists who go out and get the truth. and the end result is you have a state-run, here's what our king did today, isn't he wonderful man? and the next thing you know you're living in romania. that's the way it works. and for there to be the true first amendment, which i think is the -- i think they could have maybe just given up after they -- once they wrote that, the government can't tell you how to worship god or who not to associate with. you're not allowed to scream

"fire" in a crowded theater unless there is a fire. and finally, a freedom of a press, for journalists to put the record straight. this is what has made america america. and to have any sort of guerrilla war against them is a threat to us all. >> one of the great closing themes of the film is when the journalist meg greenfield is taking a call from the supreme at we've won.ls the newsroom it's fantastic. and then the cheers that go up. so i want to ask you, why you decided not to go to a white house screening for the show -- >> there was no invitation. >> oh, really? >> the question was, it was a , if you were invited to the to white house, would you go? and i said i probably would not, because i don't want to put

forward such a false front as to disagree as passionately as i do with the -- what's the word? >> the current incumbent. >> well, yes. i think that there are bad -- we now have neonazis in torchlight parades. we have jokes about pocahontas put forward to the navajo code talkers. i think there's a disconnect with the system of governance that i could not, in good faith, go and take part in. >> do you feel the same way, meryl? >> no. i would go. i would go. i think you have to speak truth to power. ce and say what i thought.is but you know, i think there is no way we're going to emerge

from anything if we don't talk to each other. >> the first director of the s.e.c. basically wrote about tom hanks said he would not participate in the screening of the film in the white house. tom, with all respect to you my favorite actor, i think it is trump more than anyone else who needs to learn the lessons of this film. >> we heard that he asked for it friday, for a copy for the white house and camp david in case -- you can't get through the whole thing. >> i hope he sees it and takes ministration to heart.he nixon >> it's a thrilling movie. >> yeah, it is. >> it really is. >> he'll dig it, i can tell you that right now. also, we have not been invited to anything. this is

it's obviously the metoo battle. and it started -- it started with gretchen carlson on fox news in outing the sexual harassment at the top of the pinnacle of power there, and a year later coming to hollywood with harvey weinstein. as i said on sunday night, just about everybody was wearing black in protest of what's going on. where do you think, as a woman, this movement is going? are we teetering on a sort of abyss? has it got direction, has it got focus? is there a second wave of what's going on other than a few trophy scalps? >> well, i think someone said we're building the airplane while we're taking off at the same time.

the metoo movement really started with terana burke ten years ago in response to abuse of young women of color in the south. and she worked and continues to work on those issues. i mean, in oprah's speech, she mentioned reesy taylor who was raped and refused to shut up about it, even though she was warned. and rosa parks' part in that. i found that -- i did not know that. >> i did not know that. >> so this is a very old battle. it's a battle of dominance. same with the freedom of the press. who's going to get to be top dog? the weird thing is, we elected the silver back because people want that clarity.

but actually, sometimes it's an out moded way of government. >> i know you talked about this before, but where do men come in to support women? sexism, misogyny, is a male problem. they created it. they have to fix it. she said, what is -- what about matt damon coming in and saying no, i'm not going to take that role unless my co-star is paid the same. >> this is what has to happen. >> would you say that? >> absolutely. not only that, but look, i have an office and we are always seeking out -- because early in here, the airplane right now is made of canvas and wire. so if you honestly want to make the lasting difference to say that it's not just about preaching to the choir, then have to say let's find the women that will take these jobs. let's put women -- the parity that is necessary, that if 50%

of the board of say weinstein pictures had been women, somebody would have said what is going on here? it is parity that is going to -- >> it's congress. that's a slush fund. it's shocking that there's a slush fund that will pay off sexual harassment. >> nondisclosure agreements. >> you can deduct your sexual harassment settlement off your taxes. but you can't, you know, there's a cap on your real estate. i mean, really, it's a problem of an imbalance of power. and dominant culture, and the dominant voice has been -- has distorted justice. >> what's the next sort of set of dominance? people talk about the assista assistants, the agents, all the people who helped harvey weinstein lure people to their bedrooms? >> the next one is, in the

military, it's in the hospital industry, it's in -- at goldman sachs, it's not just hollywood. hollywood is why we pay attention because they're boldfaced names, and that stands out. but it's everywhere. and i think the fix is in. people are not -- women are not going to turn around and go back. >> obviously, it's been all over the place, and you rebutted it very movingly. what is it with rose mcgowan who accused you of tacitly knowing and not saying and all these years you worked in some respect for harvey weinstein? >> i'm sure in many ways she wished i knew. what happened to rose is unbearable. it sticks a knife in everyone's heart, that this man was allowed to continue in his -- the way he

worked on people, over the bodies of women. he made a business over the bodies of women. and going forward, we have to support the survivors, figure out solutions why legislatively it will never happen again. we should have the e.r.a. that would make it illegal -- i mean, there's so many imbalances. but for rose, i think i have nothing but empathy and a hope that she finds a way to heal. i really do. and i think she and so many of the women who step forward, annabela, and the others, these we owe them a debt of gratitude,

because they've changed the 21st century. >> on the record, you said that you were probably too big for him to try anything like that on you. >> yeah, the assumption is that i needed him for my career, but, i mean, the eiron lady, i was paid $1 million to make "the iron lady" by bbc films. harvey picked up that film -- and i also gave my entire salary away to the effort to build a national women's history museum. i didn't need harvey, harvey needed me. and he, i guess, hired mussad spies so people would not know this information, so it would be suppressed. but what happened to rose will never happen again, because there's a network of women now that is pretty formidable. we all talk to each other.

our business has benefitted from the fact that we didn't, for years and years and years. and this is making people in the corporate suites shake in their boots. the agents shake in their boots. it's going to change the face of our industry, because from so many years we've been undervalued, underpaid, and exploited. so that's over. >> do you think i'm going to follow that? >> no, and i don't think you should. that was great. tom hanks, meryl streep, thank you so much. >> pleasure. >> an extraordinary film. that's it for "amanpour" on pbs. see you again tomorrow night. >> "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the generous support of roslyn p. walter. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

steves: salzburg's cathedral, constructed in the early 1600s, was one of the first grand baroque buildings north of the alps. it's sunday morning. the 10:00 mass is famous for its music, and today it's mozart. enter the cathedral, and you're immersed in pure baroque grandeur. ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ since it was built in only about 15 years, the church boasts particularly harmonious art and architecture. in good baroque style, the art is symbolic, cohesive, and theatrical, creating a kind of festival procession that leads to the resurrected christ triumphing high above the altar. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ dona nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ pacem ♪ music and the visual art complement each other.

the organ loft fills the church with glorious sounds as mozart, 250 years after his birth, is still powering worship with his musical genius. ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ nobis pacem ♪ ♪ nobis ♪ ♪ pacem ♪

katty: you are watching "beyond 100 days" on pbs. a wealthy area of california is swamped in terrifying mudslides. christian: at least 15 people have been killed in the hills of santa barbara. katty: rescue helicopters have been used to pull people to safety in an area that is home to some of america's most a miss -- famous media stars. the great republican exodus -- another top conservative lawmaker says he is calling it quits amid signs the party is struggling. christian: thousands of tourists remained stranded at popular european s r