robert: a standoff with russia.f talk pardons and another cabinet shakeup. i'mst robert inside the latest diplomatic showdown and a changest the department of veterans affairs, tonight on "washington week." >> russia is responsible for aat horror risk attack on the british citiznd his cedaughter. gain they have broken the kem cal weapons convention. robert: days afterhe trump administration announced it would kick out 0 rushes -- russians, moscow kicks back, telling the same number of u.s. iplomats to leave and shutting down a u.s. consulates and as the community you hhlights in to hold russia accountab for his nerve agent attacks, the russiansnnounce a new sbontal

ell. stic mit president trump gives veterans affairs director david shulkin the pink slip. will the president's personal physicia rear admiral ronny jackson be confirm told take over the secondest -- second last re-- largest department in the freshma department? plus, did president trump's legal team consider pardons for former campaig dividors. we discuss it all with mark mazzetti ofyo "the ne times." shawna thomas of vials news. andrea nitchell of news and jon decker of fox news radio. >> this is "waington week". error rat funding is provided by -- -- court rat funding is provided by -- >> their leadership is instinctive.

they understand the challenges of today and research the technologi of tomorrow. some call them veterans. we call them pardon -- part of our team. >> on an american cruise lines journey along the columbia and snake rivers, travelers retrails the route forged by lewis and clark mor than 200 years ago. american cruise lines' fleet of paddle wheelers travel through american land scams to historic landmarks, where you can experience loam customs and culture. lines.n cruise proud sponsor of "wa."ington we >> additional funding is provided by -- entertainment studios. newman's ownoundation,

donating all profits to chairty and nourishing the common good. koo and patricia yuen for the bridging cultural differences in our communities. the ethics and excellence in journalism foundation. the corporation for public broadcasting and bybu contritions to your pbs station from viewers like you. once again, from washington, moderateor robert costa. robert: good evening. the fricti between russia and the west is escalating. after the trump administration and a number of u.s. allies moved to expell russians over a nerve agent attack on a former rushingen satisfy inside the united kingdom. russia announced it would expel 60 u.s. dip lo malts and close the u.s. consula in st. pierce. burg in retaliation for a similar move b washington. so far more than 20 countries

have kicked out more than 00 russian intelligence officers in solidarity with the.k. the back story, the kremlin is believed to be behind a chemical poison attack on a former russian spy and his daughte who are living in england. both are now recovering. yet tensions flare on friday when rusha tested its new missile. p presidenin claims the new mitchell is capable of reaching any point on the match. and remarks we've been studying the president and reportsing on him i russi for over a year now. and now this new chip. what toof makt? andrea: the president is sendsing mixed messages. first of all, it's been more than three weeks since that attack and he's not said o word about it. he didn't say a word about to it vlad near putin on the phone and much of the -- to the surprise of his own advisors, he

congratulated putin on his own sham ee ctions. weld that he's actually been tougher on the t phonen has been let out. saying if you wa to have an arms race, i'm going to that. current diplomats are saying he has to speak out andithout his voice, this is not going to be received in moscow by or anybody else in the kremlin. hit doesn't have the the voice of the united states and it's extraordinary that these expulsions have taken place, worse than anything i the cold war and we're getting involved in this titor tat but what we need to do is speak out and impose sanctions on putin's cronies. robert: is the u.s. now in sync with western europe and its strategy towards russia?f >> in terms what they did

this week, the answer is yes. there was a coalescing of the u.s. and its allies coming together and booting out, esntially, these rushen diplomats who all of these countries said were operating at spice inir country. to andrea's points, there is this spits aican-americanic approach that the administration seems to be taking on russia. we hear it from russians. john mccain very critical when the president congratulated putin oz -- on his election vibblingt rip. mitch mcconnell saying he wants to see a much harsher tone are from washington. >> there actually was tt for at the. the russians responded. the last time was at the end of the obama administration, where they expelled russian dip lo mats for the election interference and notably, pumeten didn't respond and that led to all sor of questions,

why not? this does sort of signal thesqu lation here. shawna: we have an omni bulls appropriations bill the president signed that had multiple things in its that were against the russians. it tried to codify a lot of the sanction -- sanctions and provided money for the amukrainians. ica is sevending multiple messages and no one quite knows what with it. even if we seem to be in line with aleast the u.k. in this one case. robert: you look at the pths president's comments this week on syria and maybe moving troops out pretty soon. what message does that send to russia? andrea: he's been saying that privately we understando his aides. he wants out of syria. russia is now in charge, russia and the iranians. it makes noense. it's also pulling out the rug from our kurdish all lies and

that is pretty much to erdogan there. we are not only retreating from world leadership in europe but also in syria. shawna: it's telling putz on the stick around in syria a see what he can get out of it. >> but there's some hope with in new national security team coming on board. mikepe p if he's confirmed and john bolton as the national security advisor, that they will take a mor hardline approach towards russia and convince the president to speak out on these issues more regularly. andrea: one points about bolton, there's a lot of concern even among some at the state department and at the pentagon. jim mattis has tried to show he's on brd with bolton but privately there's a lot of sourcing from other in the is very hat mattis

uncomfortable because of bolton's posture with the aaron nuclear deal. robert: when the defense secretary m bolton he said i'm meeting the devil incarnate.an ea: i think he was trying to defuels reports that he was very concerned and might even leave the administration. even though pop payo is hard lined and has been ver hostile about a lot of things from the obama administrtaion, the department is throwing out the welcome mat. finally, a secury of stateho can talk to the president, actually noles the policy the president wants and believes in the political process. he's a fmer politician, a former kansas republican congressman and might actually unls how to govern and lead a large bureaucracy. awna: and even if they're people who don'tagecessarily

e with trump's policies, they think mike pompayo will actually put people in the open positions. they're hap that maybe their offices have been -- can be influence staffed and they can do their jobs to a certain extent. >> and our allies are pleased. they want to know they're speaking on behalf of the president. mike pompeo has a close personal rhythm with president trump and that comforts them to know that he's speaking on behalf of president trump. robert: let's speak to the russian issue here at home. the "new york times" broke the story that president trump's personal defense attorney, john doumed, who resigned last week, reportedly dangled pardonens for two key pple in the russian probe. form early national security advisor michael flynn and former trump campaign chairman paul

manafort. before man for was charged with financial crimes and before flynn cut a plea deal with special counsel robert mueller in exchange to pleading guilty for lying to the f.b.i. last december president trump was askedonf he wouldder granting flynn a pardon. he left the door open. presiden trump: we'll see what happens. let's see. i can say this- when you look at what's gone on with the f.b.i. and with the justiceme depart, people are very,ry very a robert: when you look at your reporting at the times,jo mark, dowd, who's now gone from the legal team, he's denied having these discussions but what did yourttory reveal ab what happened? >> the facthat this issued -- issue was raised by doupped indicates there was concern on the legal team about what they eere to say if they might

corporate with counsel. certainly this period of time is important. the summer, the fall of 200 muller is building a case against -- 2017, muelleis building a case against both people and the white house is clearly concerned. what we don't know are a couple of things, the specifics of the conversations and also whether president trump put dowd up to it. did he encourageed dou to make those calls. those are stilley questions we don't know because it gets to this issue of, is there anything illegal or untoward -- untoward about this? the president has broad powers to pardon. however, if you're danger allege pardon exchange to buy someone's silence,et's say, that's where you get into witnessampering etc. it's been reported talked to witnesses in the white house about the pardon issue.

about whatns discussere held at the white house on the issue of pardonens sot's search an issue that he's looking at. andrea: and one of the things so extraordinary about mark and his lleagues' terrific reporting on this is that usually pardons are offered aceh jeweled occasion. usuay they're requested by the person involved, not dangled this way a there's a whole office in the justice departments which is supposed to coordinate with the white house's counsel offic robert: we talk about john dowd, he's a white-shoe washington attorney. he wd ked for the president now he's not there but he matters in the sense that the president has been negotiating with the mueller team a possible interview and john dowd has said do not interview with the mueller team.e' now that gone, are we going to see the president maybe sit down with mueller in theoming weeks? >> i doubt it. i'm going to put my lawyer halt

, member of the d.c. bar and your story was fascinating. it doesn't have the elements of a smoking gun, though. you think about the things you brought out there, mark. possible witness tampering, possible on instruction of justice and conspiracy to commit bribery but you nee to know more information in terms of what was said in those meetings and whether or not the attorney, john doumed was getting his instructions in his clientsen pres trump in perhaps dangling out those efforts. we don't know thatnd yet that's important to member. but as far as what you mention, and remarks there's precedents for puttingrd for presidential pardon efpble before a pardon takes place. 1982, christmas day. george h.w. bush issued six pardonens. kaspar wine burger. upset the independent counsel

at the time, upset democrats but the president did it because --e because h had the power to do it turned constitutn. robert: the at feericks matters too, right now in washington. this all comes as the attorney general decides not to move foard with a special counsel. there's a clamor among many republicans to have a special counsel. why did the attorney generalea indecide to move forward with anra attorney ge investigation? >> i can imagine that the p.r. of trying to doiaueling sp counse, how are they going to work together, whoets what? it creates more attention. look at me, look at this. when i think attorney general sessions wants to do his job in some ways but he also wantspu t attention over to other things.

i mean, he's running immigration stuff with d.h.s. the way people want it to be tone to -- done, especially republicans. he is onef the most successful cabinet members there is and i think he knows that calling more attention t b this is idea. >> and i am the goes to this sort of strategy,ights, for the republicans have tried to use over the last year, which in the -- with all this smoke about russia, the strategy is go after the investigation, right? examine the f.b.i., examine the justice department, the so called deep state. discredit the investigators as a way to discredit the in this has been the issue with comb illinois, mccabe. this issuet' of w going on in d.o.j. and f.b.i. is sometmpng that t talks about all the time. it's not going away. robert: you think about former f.b.i. director james comey h s book coming out in a few

weeks. the white house is ondge about that based on my reporting and you also have a combative pr aident who on twitter elsewhere is becoming more comfortable in office, turning his loyalists more often. and doumed was the link to mueller. two former marines talking on the -- on the pho occasionally. now he's not there and the e combatdes are around the president. andrea: the combative sexaveds former avepleds. he doesn't have hope hicks. as -- aides. doesn't have home hicks. as of the endf o this week she's gone. he's the presidentf the united states but no moderating influence. less and less from john kelly, that's clear. he wasn't there when the president wa calling putin. he hasn't been there for key decisions and here you have trump trying to hire joe by

general have and his wife, not -- digenova and his wife, not having vet them. >> this iss is significant and who is he going to get to represes him during this critical period whether he has an interview with ? eller or n you're finding this extraordinary situation in wra -- washington where the most reputable well known lawyers and firms are shying awayrom representing the president of the united states, which would be like thee pinna a career. this is not normal. robert: i talked to one big attorney this week and they kept saying it's about conflicts and political risks but they said the real reason they don't want to join the trump team because the president in their view as veteran lawyers, he wants to be his own lawyer and they don't think he wantso accept the counsel's recommendation. they look at the dowd

experience. cabinet another shake-up, in time at the department of veterans affairs. president trump dismissed david shulkin on wednesday and nominated navy rr admiral ronny jackson, the white house physician, to lead the v.a. dr. sugar kin was brought in during the obama administration but his leadership was rattled by recent reports that he use taxpayer money to take a tip to europe with his wife.ki sh downplayed the report, saying he has repaid the governmenthe charges. saying he was the victim of politically based attacks. he also told judy woodruff that he was fired because of his strong opposition to privatetizing the v.a., something president trump supports. p >> i don't svatization as a good thing for veterans and i think that those that are really sticking to a political ideology

or doing this for other reasons like financial reasons don't have the interests of veterans at heart. i think you jusave to talk to the veterans' group to hear that. robert: my colleagues at the "washington post" reported that many people inside ofhe white house, including dr. jackson, were surprised by his nomination. they wrote thatas jackson w taken aback and heads at the same t aed to take on such big job but the president continued to push and told the senior statue on monday that the doctor s his top choice. a senior white house said jackson went through an informal vetting process but without the extensive vetting that typically accompanies a selection.t we're looking a touch configure medication perhaps for the doctor. shaw: we are, despite the fact that a lot of people on both sides in washington liked a miriam dr. ronny jackson.

the probl here is -- bedid sort of dive into the v.a. yesterday on vice news tonight sw becouldn't find anything that looked le management for dr. jackson in terms of running anymore kind of l ge organization or even small organization really. so while he may be a a vy good ctor, it's hard to see how he's going to go into something as large athe v.a., something that david shulkin had been a part of before, didn't successfully get through his term as v.a. secretary and do anything. and he's going to toews if a a lot of questions and also about privatization.pl most paround town trip it is that idea of privatizing the v.a., something that some outside parties definitely wants, that that was why he was

not going too survive there. the other thingou have to member is the v.a. huge. it has 351,000 full-time employees. it is, i believe, the second largest organization behinds the dense department. >> it is. shawna: lots and lots of hospitals and out-patient assignments. it is basically a bank swell. -- as well. it gives loans. it is unclear how dr. jackson is going to answ these questions. >> seven out of the last -- individuals seven out of the last nine individuals who have headed the v. ramplet have either resignedr -- v.a. are either resigned or been fired. $200 billion budget and as you enttioned, there's no manag experience associated with the president's choice to lead the a. next and those touch questions are going to come from both democrats and republicans and you look at the veterans groups out there. r

amvets, whicresents 250,000 veterans has expressed concern over this choice of the president. you have the vfw expressing those same concerns. between the time that he's normalam and the time that the configure medication process take pla, it will give time for those organizations to gets mobilize leds and convince those senators who sit on the senate veterans affirms committee to vote against this nomination.: andr he has programs 25 or 30, maximum, employe now in the physicians office in the white house so when you speak, awna, about no managements experience, there's really zero management experience for thisf kind step-up. in fairness to dr., shulko had to explain after an inspector general's reports his wife accompanying him on a trip to europe which he said has been preapproved but still had been questioned and paid back.

that doesn't come close to some of the questions that have bn raised about some of the other cabinet members for first-class travel to ma rocco and poten oal conflict interest. robert: we only have half an hour on this show. there's some cabinet unrest. we'llor save that next week and welcome, john -- jon, "washington week." great to have you on the program and also to our favorites who are back. shawna, and remarks mark, always a pleasure. on the "washington week" extra, we'll discuss the controversy surrounding a question about citizenship onhis year's sense us. plus president trump's message to the leader of north korea ahead of their planned summit. watch it online tonight and all week long at pbs.org/"washington week."rt i'm roosta and from all of us here, happy pass over ander happy ea

>> funding for "washington week" is provided by -- >> their leadership is instinctive.er they undand the challenges of today and research the technologies of tomorrow. some call them veterans. we call them part of our team. >> my dad once said to me tragedy has a way of defining people. >> what the hell happened, teddy? >> they're treating this like a crime scene. >> we tell the truth or at least our version of it. >> senator, can we -- can we

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