captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, following the money-- conflicting stories from president trump and hipersonal attorney about payments to adult film actress, stepha clifford. then, i sit down with former c.i.a. director michael hayden to discuss what's at stake in this new era for the nation's intelligence community, and alesident trump's inaugural pastor about the role of faith at the trump white house. plus, ontario's inme daexperiment: a look at ca t program offering a les bureaucratic way to break the cycle of poverty. >> you don't have to show that you're sick, you don't have to show that you can't you get it as a right. >> woodruff: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshou

unding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> babbel. a language app that teaches real-life conversations in a new language, like spanish, french, german, italian, and m babbel's 10-15 minute lessons are available as an app, or online. more information on babbel.com. >> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. supporting science, technology, and improved economic performance and financial .teracy in the 21st centu >> carnegie corporation of new york. cupporting innovations in education, democra engagement, and the advancement of international peace and

security. at carnegie.org. e >> and with going support of these institutions: and individuals. >> this prram was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the white house finds itself tonight, fending off new questions about stormy els, and who paid for he ptlence. they e after a swirl of statements by a member of president trump's own legal team. am prayer has always been at the

center oican life. >> woodruff: the president marked thenational day of prayer" this morning, amid new disclosures about a payment to nt adult film star. >> mr. presidewhy are you changing your story on stormy daniels? >> shame on you! >> woodruff: one of mr. trump's personal attorneys, michael cohen, has long said he used his own money to pay $130,000 to stephanie clifford"sknown as 16y daniels," just before the lection. clifford says it was hush money, to b alleged sexual affair with mr. trump in 2006. the president has denied any relationship, and for months, a denied knowiut a payment. then last night, newly hired attorn, rudy giuliani, acknowledged president trump repaid cohen. >> that was money that was paid by his lawyer, the way i would do, out of his law firm funds or

whatever funds it doesn't matter and the president reimbursed that over the period of several months. >> woodruff: appearing on fox's "hannity," giuliani maintained the president was unaware of details of the stormy danis matter, until recently. >> he didn't know about the specifics of it, as far as i know. but he did know about the neral arrangement, that michael would take care of things like this. rk woodruff: giuliani told "the new yo times" that mr. trump made a series of payments to 0,hen of $35,000 each, totaling as much as $460,00or what he called "incidental expenses." he rejected any notionthe payments might have violated campaign funding law. >> thamoney was not campaign money, sorry. i'm giving you a fact now that you don't know. it's not campaign money. nn campaign finance violation. >> they ed it through a law firm. >> they funneled through a law firm, anthe president repaid it. >> reinforced the point on twitter

this morning. rn said that: "mr. cohen, an at, received a monthly retainer, not from the campaign and having nothing to do with the campaign. these agreements are very common among celebrities d people of wealth." giulianias back on fox again early this morning, saying the initial payment to clifford was made to protect the trumps from being personally hurt by false allegations. but he also suggestethe looming election was a factor. >> imagine if that came out october 15 in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. cohen didn't even ask. cohen made it go away. >> woodruff: still these latest revelations call into question the president's own words aboard air force one last month. th mr. president, did you know abou$130,000 payment to elormy daniels? >> no, no, wse? >> then why did mr. cohen make those if there was no trutto

>> do you know where he got the money to make that payment? no.no, i don't know. >> woodruff: cohen said in a statement in february that: "neither t nor the trump campaign was a party to the transaction with ms. clifford, and neither reimbursed mfor the payment, ther directly or indirectly." at the time, white house press secretary sarah sanders echoed pat denial from the white house briefiium. >> there was no knowledge of ath payments fropresident, and he's denied all of these , legations. >> woodruff: todnders faced a new barrage of questions. s >> as giuliani stated, ts something that wasn't initially known but was later learned, we give the best information we have at thtime. >> woodruff: cohen is now the target of an f.b.i. investigation. agents raided his home and office last month,eportedly searching for documents on the clifford payment, among other things. clifford is now pursuing her own ntvil suit against preside trump, for defamation.

we'll examine the implications of the giuliani disclosures, after the news summary. in the day's other news, the white house has a new reason for why president trump fired james co in his "fox news" interview last night, psidential lawyer rudy giuliani said it was "because comey would not say that he-- trump-- wasn't a target" in the irssia investigation. it's at least the explanation that the president and his aides have given for firing comey. iran's foreign minister insisted today that his government will t agree to any changes in the 2015 nuclear deal. a youtube video, javad zarif dismissed president trump's demands that europn leaders "fix" the agreement. >> let me make it absolutely clear once and for all: we will neither outsource our security, nor will we renegotiate or add on to a deal we havedy

implemented in good faith. the u.s. has consistently violated the agreement, especially by bullying others from doing business with iran. >>soodruff: president trump weighing whether to re-certify iran's compliance with the agreement, or end u.s. sanctions relief by may th. the trump administration staye mum today on whether u.s. special forces are helping saudi arabia battle rebels in yemen. "the new york times" reported about a dozen of green berets are helping to locate and restroy rebel missiles being at saudi cities. mae report said there is no indication the cos have a tually crossed into yemen. erce rainstorm roared through northern and western india overnight, killing more than 90 people. some 160 others were injured. the deluge brought winds of 80 miles an hour that blew down trees and destroyed homes.

most of the deaths and the worst of theestruction came in the tarthern city of agra. the famemajal is located where, but it was undamaged. mee, there's word the 10 cities with the most polluted air are all in india. die "world heath organization" released its fs today, based on data from 2016. hscording to the w.h.o., roughly 7 million de year, worldwide, are caused by air pollution. talks are underway in beijing, as china and the u.s. try to sert a trade war. treasury secretateve mnuchin and the u.s. delegation arrived today, as china'foreign ministry said any agreement must benefit china as well. n ( translated ): we welcome negotiatd consultation, but it must be on the basis of equal footing and mutual respect, and the result should be mutually beneficial. let's wait and see. >> woodruff: the talks will

ecntinue through tomorrow, with the focus onology trade and tariffs. back in this country, the u.s. h litary is now investigating the cr a puerto rican national guard plane that killed nine airmen. the aging c-130 hercules nose- dived onto a highway near savannah, georgia yesterday, just after taking off for arizona. it was making its final flight. officials say the plane was at least 40 years old, and possibly arizona teachers are set to end their six-day strike after scoring a major victory. the governor signed a budget bill today, including e 20% salary hr teachers, over t ree years. it did not meir demands for more school funding. opschools are expected to tomorrow. the motion picture academy today expelled bill cosby, after his conviction for drugging and sexually assaulting a woman. at the same time, the poganization expelled director

romanski. he fled the united states 40 guyears ago, after pleadinty to drugging and having sex with a 13-year-old girl. and, on wall street, upbeat economic data rescued stocks from an early swoon. the dow jones industrial average dropped nearly 400 points initially, but ended up five and closed at 23,930. the nasdaq fell 12 points, and the s&p 500 slipped six. still to come on the newshour: the former c.i.a. director michael hayden on the agency under the trump administration. on this national day of prayer, what's behind evangelicals strong support for the .president, and much more >> woodruff: as we reported corlier, rudy giuliani's

ents to various media outlets last night have created esnew legal headache for his top client, ent trump. we take a closer look at the l questions the statemen raise, with john carlin. he was a longtime justice departme official and federal prosecutor, and now works in prate practice. and rick hasen, an election law expert a professor at the university of california irvine tlhool of law. and, gen, we welcome both of you back to the program. rick hasen, i'm going to start with you. we just heard a few minutes ago i that piece we put together rudy giulill the anchors at fox news, he said there was no campaign violation, everything was done properly. how do you see it? >> well, i tnk it's a really open question. right now, what it lookss like i that michael cohen gave a loan to donald trump, and if that was tcampaign-related loan, then that h be reported on mempaign finance forms and each

he loan was paid back, the o yment had to be put in there. it's all goingrn on what did trump foe, when did he know it and was this cami related, was the motive to help the campaign or to help trump personally? w while we don't know enough to knther or not there's a campaign finance violation, there's certainly enough to investigate here and giuliani has made things much worse fo nald trump right now. >> woodruff: in terms of a reason, we heard rudy giuliani toy at one point it was connectehe campaign date but another point in the interview he said it was to spare president trump and his wife embarrassment. >> well it could havbeen both those things, but the timing coming just before the election, just before stormy daniels was supposed to be on television talking about the affai that's some circumstantial evidence campaign related a might be when the u.s. attorneys seized evidence from cohen's offices, they were lookinfor evidence of motive -- was this more about wisconsin or melania?

i think we don't kn that yet. >> woodruff: john carlin, there were so many parts of what rudy giuliani had to say, but i want to ask you about the comment he said, this is a private contract between two parties known as nondisclosure, an nda, he said these are common among celebrities and people of wealth. that true? are these kinds of payments done all the time? >> well, there are so many ainspectors of this current investigation that sm unusual, to say the least, one of which is the public discussion and disarray and chaos if the legal team in the way that the legalam ften does not seem to be matching up with what the client is saying which is never ideal when you're in a defense situation and you contrast that with the mller and his prosecution team. they never speak on the record, they never speak to the press. when they do speak, it's through official court filings and

documents and running this investigation by the book. and remember, outside the daily news is a serious investigation ouout a foreign power trying to undermin democracy, and it's all the more important we get to the bottom of that as we head towards another election cycle today. we just hea news today that a state election might be attacked through a cyber attack. we've got to get prepared. >> woodruff: again, back to heat rudy giuliani was saying and the on heels of a few weeks ago the f.b.i. raid going into the office and home of the president's former lawyer, michael cohen, does iet look you as if -- i mean, again, we're speculheatin -- what rudy giuliani was trying to do s clean up some of this because they know the f.b.i. has taken material from cohen's office? >> wl, trying to avoid speculation but, at times, they've attacked the search

warrant on cohen offices as something that was inappropriate or done through the muellr special counsel investigation, and they're different. what we're learned to daten is i the special counsel investigation, they apparently ing there evidence sh were crimes committed, and those crimes were sufficiently serious that the acting attorney general rod rosenstein said they feed to t investigated by an independ need to be investigated by an independent prosecutor's office anctsouthern distf new york which is legendarily independent, hard-charging prosecutors and it looks like they found serious evidence of crimes that ledoh wf attorneys' offices and easier of materials but as they put in their filing easier of his email. that's notpp easy standard to meet. so it does seem lik because of that, there's a lot of concern that, as they uncover the cris that were -- that they are w vestigating there that it's someing to lead back to

the president and is legal team. >> woodruff: so many strands. "the wasngton post" was reporting today the president had been advised by rudy giulia and perhaps others not to have any contact with michael cohen and then, of course, nbc was reporting earlier in the day that the f.b.i. was eavesdropping and modifd later to say the f.b.i. was monitoring phone calls going into cohen's office and there b may han a call with the white house. back to you, rick hasen. with we are trng to understand here whether laws might have beenbroken or not. so as somebody who understands election law, what more information do you need to know? you mentioned a minute ago motive. what more do u need to know to understand whether the law was violated or not? >> well, so once we know whenew trump hat he knew, if it was during the campaign period or even now because he's running

the 2020 campaign, the main question is going to be was this campaign related, and that's a motive question. this came up in the johnedwards prosecution, senator john edwards also receiving payments for a mistress and he argued they were peonal, not campaign related. how do you get evidence ofti ? you can infer it from the timing coming just before the election, but there might well be communications beten trump and cohen or communications with others which would indicate the payments were made to stop daniels from going on tv just before the election. if that evidence is in what the u.s. attorne gathered, that would be good evidence it's campailated and might be a violation, and that would be a civil probem handled by the federal election commission to potentially a criminal problem, and enough at stake and the motive potential jail time is something that's at least on the table if not something that's

likely to happen. >> woodrun,ff: john carow much does it matter when the payments made by the president to michael cohen and the fact they were done in installments? >> there are a lot of questions still to answer and one ofhich would be were people trying to intentionally deceive in the manner in which they made payments? the language "funneling" was ve odd to hear. >> woodruff: rudy giuliani used that word. >>hat was very surprising because it sounds like it might have been brought in, in order to hide the source of the funds, might be something they look into. t as you said, this is one strand of many, many elements, now, of evidence of different types of crinal activity by people surrounding the campa ogn persthe president. more to come. >> woodruff: so many questions. but at the center of this, this contradiction between what the president had said himself and now what his lead personal attorney rudy giuliani is

saying. john carlin, rick hasen, we thank you both. >> thank you. >> woodruff: president trump was elected at least in part, on a promise to upend the way washington and i bureaucracies work. that gave pause to some in the nation's intelligence community, including retired air force general michael hayden, who, during the george w. bus administration, served ennsecutively as director of the national security and the c.i.a. in his new book "the assault on itelligence, american national securithe age of lies," he , itiques the president's campaign tactis behavior, and his governing style, ipecially as it relates to the nation's secrets a spies. general hayden, welcome back to the newshour. general hayden, welcome back to >>e "newshour". hank you. >> woodruff: so you worked in

a republican administration but you're pretty tough on president trump. >> yeah, actually, i try to appear and be apolitical. i was a clinton appointee ton. a. but indeed i am fairly i ugh on the president. judyok at the as kind of a three-layer cake and, so, let me gin at the base layer which is not donald trump. l right? layer is us, al we have entered what the oxford dictionary calls a posruth world, a world in which decision-making is lessde ndent on data and facts and more dependent on the emotion preference, grievances, loyalty, tribalism, and what president trump did as a candidate he identified that. he e exploited that. frankly, and here's the crux of the book, as president, heeems to worsen that. then you've got those two layers, i've got a third layer of the cake that's somewhat troubling as well, and that's ao ign power, the russians, coming in through the perimeter

wire, taking advantage of all thatst described. >> woodruff: what is the problem that you have, theu criticism ve of his eelationship with the intelligence commi community? he's been very critical at times. >> at times. frankly, though, and e phrase you would use at c.i.a., the intel community right now is a littleit off of the x, the department of justice and the f.b.i. are on the x. >> woodruff: what do you mean? meaning they are the target of the president's criticism of both institutions and people. but that shouldn't be comfortable to the people in the intelligence community because you have a president here who seems to emphasize loyalty, personal loyalty to him over the norms that have governed these institution for decades if not centuries, so that could easily be turned to the intelligence community as well. >> woodruff: how do you know that this president iser so different from other presidents in his relatiship to the intelligence community? >> to be very fair, i've never briefed presdent trump.

i've briefed president bush, president obama, and i go to great pains in the book to point out it's our job to accommodate the president. we've had presidts who have argued with us. we've had presidents, frankly, who may not have told the truteh er. this is a president, and this is the distinction, who seams to make some decisions based on somethin other than a view of objective reality. he based decisions on some other criteria. back to that basic layer of a post-truth world. >> woodruff: one of the many e about, general hayden, is the so-called steele dossier. >> right. >> woodruff: the document, the report prepared by the former british intelligence agent christopher steele. you kn you've looked at that. how credible is it? i'm asking bause republicans and the congress have discounted it, they say itas pai for by the democrats, it's not worth the paper it's written on. >> i don't know chris steele.

i knowrk him as aolpl pe eo wwoeavho off hicr m.i.6. when i read that document, a couple of thought it became public, number one, it sounds like us. it has the sound overan intelligence report. it was familiar language to me. but if we had produced that wen would have had bold letters at the top and bottom "this is not finally evaluated intelligence, this is raw information." it would have been the beginns,g of a proceot the end. >> woodruff: you're saying it wouldn't have been completely discounted? >> oh, no. what we would have done, we uguld have gone thh every particular prop says, we would eave said who's the source, would the sour be expected to heow, has the hours reported reliable pli inast and do we have information that would sustain or not that data point. frankly, that's what's going on with bob mueller and others. >> speaking of rober mueller, special counsel, so much to ask you about here.

there's a lot, in fa everything we don't know about what he has learned, but we do know there have been an unusual number of communications, connections, between people around president trump and russian officials. unusuahat i think people are looking at that and saying is that someing we should be paying this much attention to? >> so, yes, an answer is, yes, thom my point of view. remembermueller investigation has gotten pretty broad now, but its origins are in a counterintelligence investigation. it's what were the russians trying to do and did anyoneov here engage in helping them. so we do have, i think, an extraordinary number of contacts between the trump campaign and the russian security services, and we khaw for a fact the russians were trying to do. now, the queston becomes for ecrector mueller, in those coons, is that borne out of naivety, out of ignorance or something darker. >> woodruff: is it possible,

and this emerged om the steele dossier, that moscow m view president trump when he was a candidate as a russian asset. i mean, is that even conceivable? >> i would not and i have used the word and some supporters of the prgident think i'm be a little unkind here, i've used a russian word for "the useful idiot," or "the useful tool. it's a soviet term of art. it's a nai individual exploited by the soviets, russians now, even though they may hold h in personal contempt. s woodruff: what do you worry most aboute investigation goes on? c the lack of resolution, the intelligenmunity report on what the russians did, when you look at what americans think about it, it looks like a national roar shack test.

we can't gut from under this cloud unless most americans sa well, that looks about the way that it happened. >> woodruff: two other things taking place in this administration, the possibility of a deal between the united states and north korea to potentially t rid of i nuclear weapons program. does that seem like something that could happen? >> the broad-based intelligence estimate for the longest time, judy, has been these guys aren't crazy, the koreans, and they would have to be crazy to give their weapons. when you look at the muammar gadhafis and the saddam hasseins and the ukraines of the world, whaens to a country when they don't have this stuff, denuclearization hn any way th meaning for you and me is something that's going to take place attend of a vy long process, which does not mean the president shouldn't go ong un and perha begin that process. >> woodruff: finally, a question about iran, suld the

trump administration stay in the current deal or should the u.s. ll out? >> my personal view is we should stay in for the time being. ofwas not a fa the deal. i had all my criticisms of theth deal, but k the consensus of folks like me is that iran is further away from a weapon with th deal than they would without it. we know more about the iranian program with ts deal than we would know without it. >> woodruff: looks like the president is preparing to -- >> i fear that he is and what i told you about further aw and so on, that's actually the intelligence community osessment, and we're back the premise of the book, how much of psidential action is based upon this objective view of reality as opposed to his original instincts and campaign rhetoric. >> woodruff: michael hayden, the book is "the assault on intelligence, american national security in the agth of lies." k you very much, general. >> thank you.

>> woodruff: president trump marked the nationaerday of prith an event in the rose garden as his support among e ph nual event was stood in contrast to the otenr news we've iscussing of mr. trump's payments to an adult film actress. william brangham has more. >> brangha joining me now is a leader amongst american evangelicals, a man who has prayed with, and prayed for, president trump. verend samuel rodriguez president of the national hihispanic christian leade conference and has served as an advisor in various capacities to president's bush, obama, and now, trump. welcome to the "newshour". >> thank you for having me. e president was here for national prayeray, he met with many leaders of the faith community. you are inhat inner circle. as we were saying before, the president has enormous supporg t

the evangelical community and i wonder if you could help me understand where does that support come from? >> public policy. evangelicals experienced or felt in the past number years, the past ten years, issues of religious liberty, issues of advancing their judeo-christian value systems stood threatened. sisterof the poor, hobby tobby, supreme court cases that evangelicals infringed their ability to advance the gospel of sgeds. all ofden, we have president trump, and the public policy initiatives as it pertens to faith is much m favorable to the evangelical mmunity indeed. >> brangham: there are many things on one side of the leverager that would aliente him from the evangelical community, three marriages, accusations of adultery, bragging about sexual assarelts. yorguing the policy side of the ledger is enough to make people think things don't matter that much?'t >> i dhink it's ever that

it doesn't matter. i think it comes to the point we n't want to write anyone off. you don't want to write off access to a president who can impact religious liberty and the sanctity of life. so it's ate mr of balancing nese narratives in a way where er sacrifice truth on the altar of expediency but likewise support policies that reflect our judeo-christian value. syst >> woodruff: r. >> brangham: it's more fundamental to evangelicals, they felt much more fundamental was at stake. >> some argued the futur of american christianity. >> brangham: is that right? absolutely. became that canopy. the impetus behind it, putting personalities aside, the imperative, what's at stake here. put it in per sperveghtive, religious liberty, sacrificing csur conscience on the altar of poligovernment obligating you to put away your belief system if you worked in a,

hospitatever that may be. there are a number of issuesro thatted evangelicals to support president trump. >> brangham: how much a role did abortion play? >> significant. arguably in the top two next to religious liberty. even in the latin evangelical community, 28% of latinos supported president trump when asked in the exit polling what drove latinos to suppot president trump, it was life. >> brangham: there were, as you well know, many people in your own congregation that didn't like your support of thed prt largely on the issue of immigration, i believe, and i know you have differed with the president on some of his stances on immigration what do you say to him? >> i pastor a multi-ethnic congrescongregation, 40% african-american, 40% white, 20% asian and latino, so i received on a stack of bibles no pushback tpushback.

i disagreed with president obama on a number iues. i mean, really respectfully disagreed with him buted h e man and respect the man. likewise weorge w. bush. so my congregation sees it as continuity inldhat they w deem as a prophetic role to speak truth to power, to advance an agenda of love, truth, grace, for immigration reform, education equality, preser aving life out of the womb, to them it's a continuum taking place. >> brangham: one of the issues is daca and the 7 to -- 7,000 or 8,000 people broughtto america as children. e u describe it as morally irreprehensis how they are treated by our legislators. what would you say to t president about that? >> i am able to speak to the present and his am. the answer has been, reverend, i

love these young men and women. >> brangham: used that language? >> absolutely. the president looked at me and said i'm a father and a grandfather, reverend, and i get it, and i don't want to do anything to harm these young men and women, to me. u i heard that from the president of tted states. then you heard him subsequently talk about a love agenda regarding these young pen and women. >> woodruff: how do you reconcile, then, president trump talking about a love agenda regards to daca with his other rhetoric about immigrants which many have called toxic rhetoric? f occasiona number o i have expressed in a very respectful manner my displeasure with comments and even wording, phrases that do not lean up with what i believe is a viable, sustainable message of love, hope and compassion. it's a conundrum, andhere seems to be not a dichotomy but there seems to be this sortf oflancing act that takes place and, at the en the day, what do i care about public policy?

i carehat hashe president sign in the rose garden. will these men and women created in tim of god be deported and protected and a pathway for galization of citizenship? that's what drives me to do what i do. so i tunderstand it, by grace of god i have had conversations with the president where he has celebrated, affirmed, validated the immigrant community in america.er >> brangham: rend rodrigues. thank you very much. >> thank you for having me. >> woodruff: the economy may be doing well by many measures, but for years there have real concerns over wage growth and the overall standard of living, perhaps it's not so surpsing that at least one recent survey showed growing public support for a new government program that would guarantee some income to citizens. there are small pilot projects of how it could work.

economics corr pondent paul solman traveled to canada to see that, part of his weekly series, "making sense." >> reporter: cheerios, it says utans gluten." otitluten." >> i may n speak french, but i've been in a bilingual country, so i know what sans gluten means. >> reporter: a tuesday trudge to the local grocery store in hamilton, ontario. >> love the organic vegetables. >> reporter: this is the first time 29-year-old alana baltzer has beenble to afford the healthy food here at the mustard seed co-op. because, she says, when you're po... >> it's buy the stuff you can afford, which is generally quick, easy and all processed and high in sugar antrans fats and all the other unhealthy stuff. >> reporter: that's all that baltzer could afford on her $575 a month welfare disabity check. but ontario willow give her $1130 u.s. a month, no questions

asked, as part of a three-year basic income pilot launched late last year. >> around the world, people believe that basic income could provide a simpler and more effective income support. >> reporter: the idea's also being piloted in finland and california. now it's ontario too. >> how are people's lives changed, how are they able to do better in their lives, prevent illness, stay in school, get jobs and keep jobs. >> reporter: ontario premier kathleen wynne. >> we should be looking at different ways of providing support, ways that ay don't punish people, but intually support people in geon with their lives and produce better outcomes. >> reporter: 4,000 randomly selected ontarians in three communities will get about $13,000 a year, u.s., for a single person, $19,000 for a couple. in exchange, recipients give up some social supports and the evvernment gets back 50 cents of

ery dollar they earn. >> it is dinitely the biggest basic income study in north america. >> you don't have show that you're sick, you don't have to show that you can't work. you get it as a right. >> reporter: research director kwame mckenzie and his team will analyze the results. >> we're going to see if it increases your chance of coming out of poverty. we're trying to see if it makes your housing stable. we're trying to see whether it improves your mental health. whether it basically decreases your use of other services, such as hospital beds. >> reporter: turns out manoba launched a basic income experiment in 1974 that the provincial government later pulled the plug on. >> it was an incomplete study. >> reporter: but long after, researchers studyingata found... >> we've got less health service use, we've got mental health improving, we've got people going back to college and they're getting better, getting

better skills to move forward. this is a great thing. r:ght? >> reporteut was it a fluke? and could the same policy produce like results 40+ years later? well, for jodi dean and family it seems, yes. >> see you tomorrow! >>eporter: 10-year-old h ughter madison has suffered from bbrittle bone disease epsy since toddlerhood. >> jodi, how was your day? >> it was okay. >> reporte yes, canada has universal healthcare, but not for the e.r. commute. co as far as parking goes, we're nored for that. that's $25 an emergency visit. >> reporter: how many times has she broken a bone? >> she's probably had at least 70 bres. >> how many times a month do you have to pay for parking? >> two to three times a week. >> reporter: basic income now covers, in effect, h the bill, a huge relief for someone who never dreamed she'd be poor, used to volunteer at the food bank, then couldn't

live without it. >> how do you go back to where you just gave that time and tell them now you're in need? >> reporter: jodi dean, like alana baltzer, lives in omilton, a once-thriving steel ci750,000 within an hour of toronto. >> we used to have 40,000 people working directly in steel, and today, it's probably clo r to 7,000. >> reporter: tom cooper, who msrects an anti-poverty project, cle's already seen benefits from the program. >> many of the individuals i've talkedo are on the basic income pilot are going back to school, wanting to improve their opportunities to get a better job. he reporter: moreover, he says: >> there's notversight we see in traditional social assistance systems thaires people to report monthly on their come or their housing status or their relationship status. >> reporter: while most poor ontarians didn't make it into the pilot, balzer did, and no longeras to deal with the

welfare system. >> you do not have the bureaucracy involved with welfare or disability. if you get a job, you simply callnd let them know, submit your pay stubs, bit a boom, bada bang, done. eporter: your mom made i into the program. has it had positive effects for her? >> oh, god, yeah. she's more ecstatic about not having to deal with ontario works, the welfare workers. >> reporter: the pilot has even induced baltzer to lose five pounds since november; more exercise, more confidence. to the first time in years i've been ablear high heels without groaning in absolute pain and sheer any. >> reporter: as for the depression she has long struggled to fend off... >> it's nice to not have a full- blown episode because i'm worried about whether or not i'm going to be able to eat tonight or be able to pay my rent or do something as simple as laundry. >> reporter: other pluses? vll, from the government's ubint iew, it no longer has to sdize baltzer's housing,

a the pilot is costing ontario less than $7onth more. >> it's important to measure that and measure use of government services. eporter: but if balzer attends college in the fall, as now planned, and then genm a job, govert would be off the hook entirely. >> it's also important to measure whether people are actually gerating wealth. because everybody's thinking often about the cost, but people don't always thinkbout the possible economic benefits. >> reporter: but look, say skeptics, basic income will cost a pretty, albeit canadian, penny going out, while benefits may never actually flow in. >> i don't think the savings are actually going to be there. so, i think that's misleading. >> reporter: that's local lawyer d vid wakely, who says if the program is extendeuniversally, ts would cost ontario two-thirds of innual revenue. and he doubts recipients will go to school or get a job. >> where someone can stay home

and get a basic income searantee. this juses as a safety blanket, a security blanket for them, because they've always got this income to rely on. >> reporter: and, as i asked former u.s. union leader andy stern, isn't that the time- honored objection to a basic income? if you pay people to do nothing, cn't that an incentive for them tinue to do nothing? >> there are always people going to stay at home and take advantage of government programs. there are a lot of wealthy people and children who are paid to do nothing, and in't seem to affect them being vital and involved in society. >> reporter: john clarke of the ontario coalition against poverty doesn't worry about poor people takg advantage of a basic income. but he does worry that the program is move to take advantage of them, by laying the groundwork forlimination of government-provid social workers, health care, the eventual privatization of social services.

>> so you're shopping for healthcare, you're shopping for housing, you're shopping for public transportation, childcare, all these things and this is the prevailing agenda at the moment and a basic income system takes us in that direction. >> reporter: moreover, says clarke, a basic incomerdreates downwa wage pressure on the working poor. >> if you create a situation where low wage workers are receiving a significant portion of their wages out of the tax revenues, then the pressure on employers to increase wages is reduced, the pressure on ments to increase minimu wages is reduced. >> reporter: so how to know, then, if the costs outweigh the benefits? >> we can have all these weoretical discussions. can say let's do a test and see what actually happens. what are the costs? is it a more efficient way of giving peoplwho need it, support? what are the benefits? r does it grow the economyt? and then we can have a rational juscussion based on evidence

rather than based on eory. >> reporter: and rather than based on promises of break pg the cycle erty which might or might not, in the end, be mainly ske and mirrors. for the pbs newshour, this is economics correspondent paul solman reporting, mainly from ontario. , >> woodruff: nw allegations of sexual harassment and a longtime abuse of power by a former top anchor, and this utme, as john yang explains, claims aust how much the network management knew. >> yang: judy, it was more than five months ago that charlie rose lost both his pbs interview show and his job as anchor of "cbs this morning." it came after the "washington arst" reported complaints about his behavior twomen at the pbs program. today, the post reports that the

incidents of ross sexual misconduct were far more numerous than previously reported, and that cbs managers were told about them as early late today, cbs news told its inployees it had hired a law firm tstigate the allegations in the post report. wrote both stories: amy brittain, who isinn the paper's stigative team. amy, tanks for being with us. >> of course. thank you forg havin me. >> yang: your story says this was more pervasive and widespread, the complaints. how widespread? >> 27 new legations against charlie rose, spanning 42 years ago, the oldest from 1976 and the most recent fro 2017. >> yang: sexual misconduct is a fuzzy term. a wh we talking about? >> there's a range of behavior included in the total. i woulsay the most serious incidents involved exposure of his gent also to a woman working

in the nbc washington bureau in the research library in 1976. some of the behavior later involved pulling women into his lep, makind sexual remarks, late night sexual phone calls,he asking about their sex lives, dproaping them in some cases. >> yang: originally cbs news isid they knew nothing about efore your story in november. but you found instances where cbs managers had bee told about this. >> right. after our first story we were kind of flooded with tips voice mails and people reaching out saying we had just kind of hit the tip of the iceberg with our first story, that this, in tfact, had been going onbs and people knew about it. my co-repoer and i set out find out what did they know and when did they find out. >> yang: what did you find? we found the earliest instance of somebody reporting this to a manager charlie roseng was ma lewd sexual remarks

to a young cler she laughed it off and said you don't have to be alone with him. he became a franchise player for cbs news, on "60 minutes" and "cbs this morning," and some of the recent incidents involved women going to executive producers at "cbs this morning" where he was a co-hor. ae case he forcibly kissed cbs employee and another woman went to the manager saying i'm uncomfortable about charlie's attention toward another young woman on the show. something esn't feel right. he was taking her to lunches e officeth >> yang: what was the cbs news policy about manag being told these things and whether they should report it up. >> i want to be clear and to the best of my knowledge there are actual humanes of resource complaints against charlie rose. so ne none of these incidents me

their way into human resources complaints in. no instances are we aware of any of the managers actually elevating the concerns about bov their heads. >> yang: should they, under the cbs news policy, should they ave? >> well, i think tse of the employ who was forcibly kiss is ec interesting casese when she went to her manager the executive roader of "cbs this" morninis woman asked him not to elevate it to h.r. and he ked not. he told us he s to charlie, he has not told us what he told ngarlie, but now cbs said they have c that policy and made it a requirement for managers to immediately report instances of sexual harassment to human resources. >> yang: so thi has changed? 'sey changed in 2016. nclear what provrptd the change or if they realized the policy was outthted. haven't said exactly why they changed it. > yang: some women you talked to aeparing to file a lawsuit? >> that is correct. we expect the lawsuit to be filed by the end of the week.

reere are young women, some of the most recent allegations have against charlie. two worked at "cbs this morning," one is one tharaised concerns to an executive producer about chaieas tention toward one of the other young women, and one of the we believe r women went on to work for his show on "charlie rose." it's an interesting case because it's against charlie rose, ink and cbs, and if it gets to discore or depositions taken, there can be a lot more questions asked about whatw. managers k >> yang: how did cbs respond to the post when you presented them with your reportg? >> cbs news president david rhodes said in a public forum in very broad statement, he said we add no knowledge. that's kind of a sweeping statement, at least itounds scweeping to me, and i think our reporting shows there was knowledge. we're t sayin every person knew but certainly some people knew and i think the question is how pervasive was it, how

widespread was it, hw much collective knowledge was there at c. >> yang: you cited a manager of someone trying to talk someone out of taking a job at charlie rose. >> a woman came in and interviewed for a position to be charlie rose's assistant and a cbs news executive pulled this woman aside and said i want yoto hink long and hard before you take this job. do you really want to be alone with this man? on yang: amy brittain of "the washinost," thank you so much. >> thank you. >> woodruff: next, another installment of our weekly brief but spectacular series where we ask people about their passion. tonight, dana mortenson, c.e.o. of "world savvy," talks about w the organization is reimagining k through twelve education to prepare students for a more glowolly connected d. >> the demographic changes

across this country are phenomenal.ul in 1970, the pion of the ops. was 88% white. by 2010, that had d to 75% thwhite, and it's estimate by 2050, it will be 47%, so for the fit time we will be a collective majority. no single ethnicity or culture all be in majority in this country and thateady true for the population under 18. students definitely find international affairs intimidati. vest of the studies that you see over the last l decades is that americans, particularly young americans, don't know a lot about the rest of the world. and so a natural byproduct of that is fear of things that we don't know a we don't understand. so world savvy's a national movement that's reimaginink through 12 education. and the way we work is by focusing on student engagement. to take complex issues in the world and learn about them and

create knowledge to action projects that help them take action, so that you can leverage diversity in the classroom as an asset. arlot of our methodology is nd saying we don't believe young people have potential to lead in the future, but that you ve that in the present. the way that international affairs was taught for so many years, was sort of food flag festival. you know we made a bûche de noe we celebrated cinco de mayo, we had a black history annth. shifting thaallowing young people to kind of do two things. one, to explore them, their history and their identity in that place and space and then also allowing then to kind o move towards the issues they're passionate about is a really way to kind of get them hooked on wanting to know something outside themselves. the reality is we are not preparing young people for a standardized world. the only sort of common thread with what young people will encounter after they graduate is change, particularly when you think about the kinds of problems that this next generation will inherit.

we're looking at climate change, migration, poverty, war. grappling with how tecy will advance. the other way we're sort of falling short with k through 12 education is that that focus on nehievement and how we've dewhat it is leaves very little room to measure what iftters. ou ask most parents what they want for their young people in addition to just graduating from school, they want them to be good people, to be able to work well with others. those are things that get lost in translation because people think they can't be embedded into educational discourse or that they lack rigor, when truly it can be done. it can be done and it can be measured. my name is da mortenson, and this is my brief but spectacular take on being world savvy. >> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. erjoin us online and again tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks. for all of us at the pbsyo newshour, thanand see you soon.

>> major funding for the pbs ney:hour has been provided b >> knowledge, it's where innovation begins. it's what leads us to discovery and motivates us to succeed. it's why we ask the tough questions and what leads us to the answers. at leidos, we're standing behind those working to improve the world's health, safety, and efficiency. leidos. >> kevin. >> kevin! >> kevin. >> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> babbel. a language app that teaches real-life conversations in a new language, like spanish, french, german, italian, and more. babbel's 10-15 minute lessons

are available as an app, or line. more information on babbel.com. go >> and with the ong support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

elyse: we're the history detectives, and we're going to investigate some untold stories from america's past. gwen: in this episode, we use scientific analysis to find out if this beautiful new england home once belon sd to an accusem witch. we in that timee been given to believe, rs that if a pe was, in fact, convicted of being a witch, the accuser would take their land. tukufu: we discover if this whaling ship provided a safe haven for fugitive slaves in the 1850s. so now we have some information. he's from the south, f 1m a slave state 6. s: and we uncover the remarkable story behind this early 20th-century jigsaw puzzle.