robert: damage control. the white house is blindsided by one of the president's new lawyers. i'm robert costa. we examine the extraordinary legal battlepl on mul fronts from russia to money to ghngress. toon "washington week." >> the fund and the president repaid t >> former new york mayor and attorney rahm emanuel -- rudy guiliani dropped a bombshell and claimed the president reimbursed his attorney for a $130,000 payment todu an a film star to buy her silence. that statement about the 2016 campaign contradicted the president's own words on airforce one just last month. >> do you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? president trump: no, no. >> why do people --um president you have to

ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney. you'll have t ask him. >> do you know whe he got the money? president trump: no. robert: on fridayi guilian attempted to clarify that any actions coh took were to protect trump's personal reputation. the president escalates his attacks on the justice department and the mueller probe after the special counsel warns t he may subpoena mr. trump to testify, writing in a tweet, at some point i will have no choice but to use the powers granted to the presidency and g involved. we cov it with carol leonnig of "the washington post," kimberly atkins of the boston herald, and jeremy peters and julie hirschfeld davis of the "new york times." >> this is washington week.e

corporunding is provided by -->> theireadership is instinctive. they understand the challenges of today and research the technologies of tomorrow ofme call th veterans. we call them part our team. >> on a cruise with american uluise lines, you can experience there of new england. our fleet of small cruise ships plores american landscapes, seaside villages, and historic harbors where you can experience local customs and cuisine. american crue lines, proud sponsor of "washington week."

>> additional funding is provided by cancer treatment a centers ofrica, newman's own foundation, donating all profits from newman's own food products to charity and nourhing the common good. koo and patricia yuen through ede yuen foundation, commi to bridging cultural differences in our communities. the corporation for public broadcasting, and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. once again, from washington, morator, robert costa. robert: good evening. it was announced friday the unemployment rate fell to 3.9% in april, the fst time it has dipped below 4% since 2000. and a possible breakthrough talks with north korea ahead of a plannedde preial summit continue. but as president trump left washington forallas to speak

to the n.r.a. convention, those pments and challenges were over shadowed by the legal battles he and his team are waging. at times out of step with each other. and by the ongoing special counsel probento russian election interference. an investigation mr. trump has long called a cloud over his presidency. that cloud, his words, only seemed to growth week. ty cobb his lawyer on russia who preached cooperation wh special counsel robert mueller ahead of a potential presidential interview resigned. rudy guiliani, the former new york mayor, and now the president's lead outside attorney, made a stunningem stt on fox news that mr. trump made a series of payments reimbursing his personal lawyer, mhael cohen, for a $130,000 settlement with an adult film actress, ms. stephany clifford, also known as stormy daniels. that's despite the president's assertion last month thate was unaware of the payment.

guiliani then issued a clarification of sorts on friday that read in part, there is no campaign violation. th payment was made to resolve a personal and false allegation in order to protect the president's family. it would have beenone in any event whether he was a candidate or not. he then went on to say it is dent's ted that the pre dismissal of former director comey, an inferior execuve officer, was clearly within his. article 2 pow it was in short a torrent ofin rmation and news driven by increasingly combative players that leave many unanswered questions about what's next for these investigationsndor president trump as he eeshuffles his legal team. carol, you've talking to rudy guiliani. im today. alked to why did the mayor choose now to try to get out in front of this issue and talk about it as something that wast a campaign violation, campaign finance violation, theseen

pa to cohen? carol: it really freaked out a lot of people in house because they didn't know this was coming on "fox & friends"erntil they lly tuned into the show. but, clearly, according to some of thosere advisers whoow trying to get up to speed, what happened was rudy had long conversation with the president about stormy daniels and the payment to cohen and he decided to get in front and clear up this mess by telling people what had happened, that there had beenepayment. the problem was, rudy created me another smal. legally you don't know exactly whether it put the president in more jeopardy but it clearly muddled the waters in the worst way. robert: when you look, julie, inside of the white house this week, what's going on with the president's legal advice? you have ty cobb leaving. he was prefecture cooperation with bob mueller. now -- he was preaching cooperation with bob mueller. now you have a veteran lawyer coming tid work i the white house. as carol said guiliani is on the outside working on the m. personal t who is leading the legal team and legal advice?

julie: i think the legal team is operating as a legal team trying to advise the president t you have aresident who does not want to be advised particularly. you have a president who feels he knows the best and has been close to rudy guiliani. he felt that conversation he had with rudy guiliani was a strategy convers ion that was going to lead to something that would end up beingte a b message publicly on all of this than he was getting previously. part of the problem with the legal team has been that they have been telling the president for months and months or the previous lawyers had that, you know, we need to cooperate, give them documents, cooperate with interview requests, to get this behind you. this will clear the air. he has waitedornd waited this to go away and it has not. he is increasingly frustrated with that. when you have rudy guiliani who he knows very well coming inin and s let's just get this over with and say what it is. we'll put it out there that you paid it back.

it has nothing to do with a legal violation. we'll just get this off the table. that is very appealing to the president. i think they thought that was how it was going to play b as carol said it's raised all these new questions. andou now have emmett flood and the lawyers who have to deal with the implications feeling very blindsided not to mention the rest of the staff feeling like they don't know what is actuallyer going one between the president and guiliani and where this is going to go. robert: what is the credibility cost for the white house, jeremy, when you think about the conflicting statements the prilident made in a about michael cohen and now guiliani hcoming out with own statements? jeremy: to the extent people didn't already know this is a white house that stretches the truth, that puts misinformation ou there, that t president, himself, does that, the president, himself, has lied at times, i think this is probably -- this doesn't change anything. as sad as that is, bob. think it's really true. we've known all of this about

trump and the people around him. when his press secreta comes to the podium every day she doesn't really know half the story. and tragically, we saw that this week whenbi her crety i think was even further eroded. but watching rudy guiliani go out there on sean hannity the otr night and just kind of free style, is indicative of how this president runs his white house. it is indicative how he ran his businesses, how he runs his personal life. i mean, he kind of put it all out there, right? it was free wheeling. it was unstructured. it was undisciplined. it put people in legal jeopardy. that's the story of this whi house. robert: that legal jeopardy question, kim, you are an attorney. you think about t comey walk back today by guiliani. they're worried it seems when you talk to people close to this legal team that the president could be in some kind of peril legally about obst.ction of justi if the intent on the comey firing last year is seen as something ehat was done to the russia probe, rather than

for another reason related to his conduct. kimberly: absolutely. that is one of the things rudy guiliani was talkingbout, giving all these alternate reasons for things like why the president fired jim comey. that was different both from what the official reason given and also from what the president himself said. he actually confirmed comey's own account tha he was concerned about the president really publicly wanting comey to publicly exonerate him in this way. i think it's reallyes intng that we have seen this rudy guiliani come in to be, you know, t former prosecutor and he can go and he knows mueller n this s going to r thing in but he went from legal position to p.r. position and rudy went back to the guiliani we saw on the campaign trail. just out in fl trump style saying all of this stuff. i think apparently t president liked it a lot at first but when he realized how problematic it wa we'veeen him pull him back in. that's why we saw that statement today. mpbert: such antant point, carol.

i kept asking myself this week, who is the audience for guiliani? is he talking to mueller? is this really about reshaping not juff the legal battle but the court of public opiniro? so you know the answer to that question, bob, because we've been talking about it af lot times. you know, the president wants a tv lawyer. ere's ban lot of grousing behind the scenes about folks saying oh, i guess i'm not a tv lawyer. he wants somebody throwing punches on the screen so the public sees his o poiview. and he, for a long time, believed ty cobb's view that youooperate, you get along, and this cloud will dissipate and the rain wil clear. everything will be great. that didn't work. he agreed with john dowd, one of his lead attorneys, until he resigned. he agreed i shouldn't probably do that interview. i should just sit tight and see where this all goes. but ultimately, rudy and the president are perfectly matched because what are they going to do? come out slugging on tv.

that's what he did. t nk about the clip you played at the top where the president turns around, mediately, without having to think when asked, did you know anything about the stormy payment? he says, no. and that right there is the reasrs why his lawhink it is a terrible, or any lawyer a who knowsnything about the facts here, should think it is a terrible idea to ever sit him down in front of robert mueer because president trump as one person who knows him very well explained to me is the guy who would pass the lie detector test even when he is not tellg the truth because he says what he believes to be true in that moment in order to get by. robert: let's talk about that. today the president told reporters he's eager to speak to mueller a that he would over ride the objections of his attorneys. president trump: i would love to go, i would love to speak. but i have to find that e're going to be treated fairly. >> are you sure -- president trump: wait, wait. i have to find we're going to because fairly, everybody sees it now and it is a pure witch hunt. right now it is a pure witch

hunt. robert: then during his speech to the n.r.a. president trump told the audience about a federal judge who questioned special counsel mueller's authority to bring tax and bank fraud charges against the former c trupaign chairman, paul manafort. julie, we see from theid prt today in dallas he came out swinging on the mueller probe and this federal judges giving him an argument. julie: it's true. hen you ask who the audience was for guiliani's performance in a lot of ways i think it the president himself. he has been very frustrated with the way this has all played. he doesn't feel like he is getting his view across. you're seeing things like that case to say i'm being treated unfairly. i would love to be forthcoming but i just can't because it is sonfair. what his comments indicated todais that his lawyers are still telling him, now, don't talk to mueller. he's s now the advice getting. because if he is saying i would overrule my lawyers you know the lawyers are telling him ehis is not a good idea for you. hing i wonder about and wondered a lot about aft

guiliani's interviews is what is emmett flood thinking right now? he has been through impeachment, through special counsel investigations. he thinks he is going in to rt of, you know, dig in for a long haul and figure out strategy to confront all of these potential challenges that are coming the president's way. if the president is just already ready to defy that kind of k advice, you don'tw -- i mean, it just begs the question of whether there is any point in having legal strategy at all. robert: what happens, kim? say the president declines formally to do an interview with bob mueller. does muell then do report on the president's conduct or could he subpoena the president? mberly: he definitely has subpoena power, but what happens beyond that is a complete open question because it's never happened before. they've never really had to figure it out. there are some d.o.j. rules that suggest that a president, if he defiesub aena and mueller tries to bring a contempt order or file some rt of charge,hat the president, a sitting president

cannot be charged, but that is d.o.j. opinion. it's never really been worked through the courts. if that'sushed, it would have to take it to the supreme court to decide. that would delay this whole investation for that much longer. it's really unclear what happens, what the ends, game and what could be brewing in this final battle between president trump and r mueller. jeremy: you asked earlier, bob, abou the audience. i think that trump's audience in a lot of these television exchanges and outbursts is his oase. he wants t remind them that he is under constant politic attack and persecution. that's what you saw today when he was speaking to the n.r.a. he whipped out that piece of paper and heead from "the wall street journal" article that quoted the judge saying essentially ueller wants to impeach the president. and right there, that was e aha moment for president trump. see? all the validation needed.

look, even "the wana street jo says, even a federal judge says they're out to get me. remember that every te you hear these phony, fake headlines about this witch hunt of an investigation they're out to get me and by extension out to get you and silence your voice. >> but let's be clear. a prosecur's job, judge ellis made very good points and was pressing ultimely for the public to know more information . his opinion will be known ultimately in his decision that isn't yet before us. but all prosecutors, what is their job? sque te everybody a low ranks to get higher and higher. what do you think is happening in theer soudistrict of new york right now? the investigation of michael cohen is while not bei run by mueller surely an effort, many sources say,eto michael cohen to cooperate in the ultimate, larger,ig enchilada of the probe. the same is true in manafort's case. robert: we learned earlier this week the mller tea has provided information to trump's lawyers about the kind of topics, the themes they may

want to ask about should the esident sit. what have we learned? >> so the list of estions the president's lawyers came up with is really interesting but it was bas on a tense, march 5 meeting, where bob mueller told john dow, the president's lawyer, you know, ian always subpoena your guy. and dowd's response was if youi wanto sit down, give us more information about what ask.e going to all of the questions ultimately that the lawyers extrapolate from those little bits of information and those topics, all ofhe questions the trump lawyers wrote down are things that everybody knows have been under investigation. you know, did manafort have interactions with the russians? did you, president trump, know about that durin the campaign? what did you and michael flynn talk about before and after you talked to the russian ambassador, a con lied about to the f.b.i.? these are all, why did you fire ou. comey? why did seem to want to

fire your attorney general? jeff sessions? ultimately, all of those questis go to two main categories. do you know about your campaign codinating with the state russia as they sought to interfere in the election? and did you, personally, try to thwart therobe or kno anything about it? robert: when you talk to people close to the president,do julie they see that list the "new york times" reported as too much? do they want to seroit nd down if the president ever agrees to do it? julie: i think part ofhat -- i mean, like carol said, there are two categories and i think there's the collusion category and there is the obstruction category. there are a lot of questions about potential obstruction and i think that's where they are -- they think they may be able to draw a line beyondth which don't think it's fair for oe special counsel to go. that's also tru the real estate transactions, private business transactions. there was a tim p whensident trump was talking to us and to others about a red line if he ever tried tetif mueller ever tried to start to investigate his own personal finances or the trump

organization. but, clearly, this is all wrapped up. and you can't investigate one thin without the other. and what thiss list of questi shows is the sheer scope of what mueller is looking at. we've known for sometime that this was the potential range of is but the fact that he is actively pursuing all of questions really does mean that he is beyond the territory that trum and his allies feel is appropriate for him to be in and we are going to hear i think a lot more i the coming weeks and months about how this is inappropriate. it's gone off the rails. it's run amok. and depending on peat h with these negotiations on the interview i think that could become a lot more forceful and they may start, the president may start to want to take more aggressivection which h has also been signaling. robert: speaking of the red line gliani told me thiseek in an interview that anything with stormy daniels, michael cohen off the table. he said we'll see about that. he is still negotiating with mueller. let's take a bigger picture, jeremy. you reported this week the conservative christian coalition that helped elect

president trump is planning its largest mid-term election mobilization ever and t vast majority of evangelical christians are digging in for mr. trump this week despite the accusations. even ins t political hurricane, of michael cohen and bob mueller, and rudy guiliani, you had the national prayer day at the white house and you have conservative republican voters rallying aroundtr president p. jeremy: exactly right. hiwill point out the stormy daniels news week, rudy guiliani's fox news appearance in which he disclosed trump was actually repayg michael cohen for the stormy daniels payments, that news broke hours fore the national prayer service began at the white house. an event at which there were dozens of evangelical christian leaders who support the president. not one of them to my knowledge expressed any misgivings about president trump,bout the recent disclosure. in fact, when a cnn reporter star ddng her stand up talking about the guiliani nterview and the trump payment to repay cohen for stormy

daniels, members of the crowd there at the prayer service started shouting her down telling her what a disgrace she was. if tnything, ink these accusations have only emboldened the evangelical right more, n saying, you're not coming after our guy. robert: that cnn reporter was just doing her job.ig jeremy:. robert: kim, when you think of of the big picture as well, this was the week unemployment went down to 3.9%. the president is trying to have an historic agreement with north korea. will the i russiaue really be a factor in the mid-term elections? is thisething the whole country is talking about when you are out there reporting? kimberly: apparently the president does because in his comments today at the n.r.a. it what he is w of going to bring to the campaign in the mid terms in which he plans to be a constant s on the stump for the mid terms. that's what he wants to talk about and what he feels like works up the crowd and where he got the big reaction. he got aigr reaction talking about the mueller probe

than when he was talking about the second amendment at the tr.a. rally. i think he thinkt is what resonates with the crowd. yeah he wants to say the job numbers are good.l heention that. he'll mention any progress made on north korea especially if that spurs a chavens nobel. but i think he thinks this isor good him politically. robert: amid all of this we have the battle between the department of justice, mark meadows the republican congressman wlose to president trump. president trump stepped into it this week rallying around meadows and his push for documents.im we don't have to get into the inside baseball fight over document production betwe the d.o.j. and house republicans. maybe we'll do that another time. to , we're trying understand that congress is really going after d.o.j. and it hason implicafor dispute attorney general rod rosen stein who oversees the mueller probe. mark that's right and meadows has been the leader, the holder of this baton, saying why aren't you producing uese documents that tel more about the f.b.i. probe?

in particular the hillary clinton probe which a lot of republicans are furious about. they don't feel it went deeply enough and don't feel the right crinal was charged. however, this is a fascinating moment, because republins are also accused of using their congressional power improperly to shield the president and to getnformation to sort leak to the white house. i'm not taking a position on what happening here but it a fascinating showdown. you've never seen anything like it. robert: rob rosenstein h been defiant. final thoughts, julie about the possible impeachment move. against h he went out in public and fought back this week. julie: it is carol said to see congress taking this kind of position between the j or the republicans in congress. that prompted a pretty extraordary statement by the dispute attorney general where he said we will not be extorted. people are attacking me publicly and privately and i think he is includhe president because we've heard president trump go after rosenstein somewhat in publ but definitely behind closed doors. ailing nstantly

against him and pondering whether he should get rid of hi rosenstein basically said i'm going to do my job. we won't be forced into any so this may end up being a showdown but you do have justice depart staking out its territory and saying come at us and it'll be interesting to see what the republicans end up doing. robert: showdown. in it is cer a showdown. and it will be a showdown i'm sure next week. stay tuned for that. stay tuned for "in principle" on most pbs stations. late night comedian bill marr dishes up a mid-term election warning for the democrats. >> um' wondering what do democrats need to ar mos right now going into the mid terms? >> well, i think they need to hear be afraid. be very afraid. robert: that's coming uonp next "in principle." rseck your local listings. our conation continues online on the washington week extra where we'll talk aboutte another wouse staffer who may be eyeing the exit soon. you never know. find that t lateright at

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