tonight on kqed newsroom, the opioid crisis. what bay area is doing to tackle dependency and overdoses. the iran nuclear deal, we get an expert's take n what this means for foreign elations. >>us, how three u.c. berkeley students are using their expertise tocombat terrorism. i'm th vu. we begin with the opioid crisis. marin county will sue a dozen companies forly addictive opioid medications. they're suing drug companies to recoup taxey dollars tpent responding to the drug crisis. they include prescription painkillers and illegal drugs like heroin. while opioid prescription rates

have declined, overdose deaths continue to rise nationally. in california more than2,000 people died from opioid overdoses in 2016 according to the state department of public health. joining me now to discuss different strategies ockle this crisis are dr. scott zieger, an associate professoran of medicine kqed laura ington.n and brian wa welcome to you all. >> thank you. >> dr. steiger, let's begin witt defns. what types of drugs are categorized as opioids? >> they'r divided into two main categories, opiates which arede ived from the poppy plant, so that includes things like morphine, codeine, heroin and the mone c synthetic like ycodone,fentanyl, hydromorphone, those are in the broader category of opoid. >> how do legal prescriptions

fuel this crisis? don't people need the drugs toi manage tpain? >> so in the mid '90s with the introduction of long acting oxycodone brand name oxycontin, the number of prescriptionsor opioids for pain increased dramatically, and that continuet about 2012 at which point there's -- since then thers been a decrease in the number of prescriptions. the problemas th too many people had too many opioids and too many brains being exposed to that addictive substan led to some problems, namely that people becameddicted to those things and needed to make sure that they were able to obtain that pioid, that chemical. the problem is that if the doctor no longer prescribes it or they no longer have access or the doctor is not available to give the prescription, the person still is physally

dependent upon the substance and needs to figure out a way to have that happen. >> andhat's what's led to the crisis we're seeing now nationally. i know, launa, you've b looking at this issue in the bay area. how big is the problem in the a area and in california a whole? >> as you mentioned, the number from 26, it was over 2000 deaths in california but when you look at the country, our rates of opioid deaths, they arh ngh -- not quite as high as the eastern states but then you look at californiaas a state and you break it down by county. our rates in the northern more rural counties, they are in the same s category asme places in west virginia. so they're quite -- it's quite bad. the san francisco bay area is not that. in 2016 j we hadt under 100 deaths in san francisco. >> i know that brian washington in marin county, you have now filed a suit against opioidn acturers and distributors accusing them efasentially of ely promoting the safety and efficacy of their painkillers.

this comes after 30 california cou ties decid join a similar but separate suit. what is your legal premin beall of this? >> thank you. the core legal premise is that the distributors and the manufacturers misled physicians and the public that prescribing opioids was safe for use for generalhronic pain. they indicated that people only became addicted at about a rate of 1%. turns out now current estimates are that addiction rate is about 50%. >> are you basically saying the companies knew about this, they saw the problem coming and they chose not to d anything about it? >> that's correct. they relied on false evidence in distributing and marketing these drugs widely. >> and so there are many lawsuits on tsss now ache country, right, involving hundreds of cities and counties nationally. what do you -- what is the scope of this? how large could it get? we saw, for example, in the 199 o 5 -- 1990s a lot of companies

were engaged inon litiga for tobacco company. could it reach that scale? >> we hope so. we hope that's a good comparison, the tobacco litigation. o we haver 400 cities and counties and states involved in the litigation and we think the public health problem is of a similar magnitude and it deserves a similar solution. >> and so, laura, california is alsole takingslative action on this. this week the state assembly passed a bill that basically mits doctors in most cases from prescribing more than fivep days worth oids to minors. that bill now goes to the senate. what's been the reaction on this om the california medical a soesh yags and otherct s? >> the california medical i associati opposed to it. doctors i've spoken to, one feels it's too little toolate. >> why is the cma opposed to it? why they rstandi would be opposed to it is because it is getting into the territory of what a i doct

doing in their doctor's office. the doctors i have spoken witfe the it's too little too late. regulation around prescription opioids, that's the first phase of the opioid epidemic. now pedle have mo on to heroin, fentanyl and those are deadly forms of opioids. so there's that view. an then also doctors who are prescribing opioids to kids, they have gotten aot of this education at this point and so they're doing it in really cases. so these might be kids who are in hoice, kids who are experiencing extreme amounts of pain. one doctor said f you limit what we can give folks, it could have a really negative effect simila to what dr. steiger was sayin they have a dependency, they need to fulfill it elsewhere. he's saying, let's get rid of prescribing in the way we do, but it needs to happen slowly. it can't be legislated out slowly. >> dr. steiger, do you agree

that legislation is not an effective way to address this? >> it depends on the legislation. in this particular piece i don't treat kids so i ca really speak with much authority about who needs pain relief through opioids or not in that -- in that particular clinical setting, but i can say it has not yet proven to put a curve on the number of overdose deaths on a national scale or in california and so it seems like maybe other ways of -- other kinds of legislative interventns are -- would be more important for curbing the tide of death. >> innmarin c aside from the lawsuit, it's been pretty active in stepping up and finding community-based solution to this. can you talk about that? >> that's correct. i can talk a little bit aout it. our public health department is leading an innovative program called rx marin working with the public, physicians, nonprofits

to make sure we're rachetting down the level of opioid prescriptions. that's been successful effort the past few years. >> pretty innovative. 's a whole collaboration between law enforcement groups, doctors, pharmacists, t.tervention specialists, right? >> that's corr it's a problem that spans many disciplines and everyone's got to get involved in solving it and that's what rx safe marin is about. >> laura, i know you've been following up on treatment prog oms. what typ treatments are available out there? >> there are a variety of oreatments available. the moston are methadone and bup prey morphine and methadone is something that has more regulation around it. if someone is gettingte tr that way they would go to a methadone clinic. b buprenorphine coulctbe more efe in rural counties for people that can't take that bus ride that's an hour ad a half methadone clinic that's

hard to reach. another thing i've been following is the efforts in san francisco which are really amazing around harm reduction. so this is something for folks who are not yet ready to maybe transitn to treatment but in san francisco these things mean you can go to a needle exchange and you can get clean needles, clean syringes, you can even ges little strhat test a drug to see if it has fentanyl in it. someone will s probablyill do that drug, but maybe if they know there's fentanyl iny it t will use less of it. they will use it with people around. anoter thing that we're doing in san francisco and other places around the state is wstributing narcan,hich is the opioid reversal drug. i went with one of these harm duction individuals and she trained bartenders and people who work in clubs. that is totally unique. so next to their first aid kit they are going to have a little nasal spray injector of narcan. >> interesting. dr. steiger, with all of these options out there, is there aul part treatment strategy

that works the best in your experience? >> well, i'm biased because i work at a methadone clinic so i tthink it's gold standard. it's been around for over 50 years. we know it works. it -- it is incredibly highly regulated, however. if you're trying to reach people wh don't have access to it, you're going to have other tricks up yur sleeve and that where buprenorphine is ve effective, almost as effective. i think the key thing to know is not being in treatment is extremely risky. youreave t to four times the rih, of de all cause mortality, mostly driven by overdose, but all cause mortality goes up if you're not in treatment for opioid use disorde we'd like t say that people can do really, really well without any medication, but that doesn't happen that >> you can't quit cold turkey nkts you can't quit cold turkey. >> mute of the aion has been focused on medical doctors

prescribing these drugs, but o what aboer medical professionals like dentists? are we looving those other specialties in the fight against opioids? >> at the end of the obama administration there was legislation that allowed nurse practitioners and physicians to prescribe buprenorphine. they should be able to talk people to reduce harm from their use. >> we will have to leave it ere. dr. scott steiger, laurakleiver and brian with marin county council. t on tuesday presirump announced he will withdraw the u.s. from the iran nuclear deal signed in 2015. this was one of president obama's key foign policy achievements. it requires that iran never builds nuclear weapons. in exchange, the u.s. would lift sanctions that havere se stifled iran's nuclear growth.

to discuss this i'm joined now by professor abas maladi from stafford university and a fellow at e hoover institution. professor malani, nice to have you here. >> nice to be here. >> on thtwsday tensions ben sran and israel escalated as israeli war pla attacked dozens of iranian war targets inside of what role would you say the u.s. pulling out of the iran nuclear deal played in that? >> i think it's what part of the same dance, a complicated dance that i think was coordinated between israel and the united states. it began with benjamin netanyahu's conference or show where he talked about all the new intelligence that they hadn found iran indicating that iran had lied about it military component, the nuclear program in the past, something that mr. trump quoted in his decision

talk and i think behind the scenes mr. trump has given israel the greenight to go iran in syria. >> but didn't iran, you fire first? you know, fire some missiles into golan hasghts? itt like -- and that happened before the u.s. announced its decision to withdraw from the nuclear deal. >> right. iran certainly has taken aggressive actions in syria, and it has taken aggressive actions against israel in lebanon. iran has now placed about 00 00 missiles right on the neighborhood, right on the border of israel. israel is clearly worried about all of this. the immediate action that seems to have begotten the israeli attack is the firing of some 20 missiles into the golan heights. they hurt nobody fortunately. they destroyed very little but israel decided to respond massively and make the point.

>> so the big question now is with t u.s. withdrawing from the iran nuclear deal, does this raise theikelihood of war? >> i think it does. i think ite raises likelihood of much more seriousnt confion between iran and israel and syria. i think it raises the likelihood of more serious confrontation between iran andbi saudi a and yemen or other places where they are engaged in a proxy war. what i think mitigates against the possibility of a war isin tt i that iranian regime doesn't really want a war right now. i think there are very few economic conditions. i think israel knows this, it nk the trump administration knows this, i think everybody else in the region knows this and when you haves much of the economy as iran has and you as much of a disgruntled population as the regime in iran

faces, the idea of picking a major battle with israel or the united states is not happy news. >> what do you make then of israel's -- iran's position, rather, its assertion that ready to restart its nuclear program if this deal falls apart following the u.s. pulling out of the death is just a scare tactic at this point? >> i think it was a scare wctic. trying to tell trump administration not to rock the boat. they said we will restart our nuclear program full we will do things you don't kno yet kind of clear language, but actually once trump pulled out, they said we're going to stay in the deal. we are now going to try to make it work with the europeans, with russia, with china, with the u.n., with the iea. all of these forces and institutions want the deal to continue, and this puts the united states as the odd person out. trump n't t administration though have a point when it says this deal is

flawed? for example, it did not address a number of issues, including iran's role in syria? >> i think the trump administration on that point is right. i was one of those people whot thouhat this deal is the least bad deal, but it was a - the least bad deal possible and the least bad deal possible was clearly better than no deal. and the way you fix a bad deal is not walking away from it.u uld have a lot more leverage, the united states would have had a lot more leverage if it had stayed in the deal and tried to g the europeans, tried to get russia, tried to get chi to bring some pressure on iran to make the concessions that the trum administration needed. to walk away from it essentially gives the iranian regime someone to bame for their economic failures. it gives the iranianadicals an excuse to clamp down on the people and they've already begun to do that.

it weakens the very people who are the only viable force who can make a regime change in iran. theiranian people are the only people who can make the change that we alleneed, m democratic iran. united states can't dictate that and to weaken the israeli forces by walking away from it so nd unilaterally so unreasonably, well, to me was the worst way to fix the flawed deal. >> we have about 30 seconds remaining. i have to ask you this though. n we haverth korea looming. we have the talks now. it's been announc that that meeting between the u.s. and north korea will take place in singapore next month. what impact could this withdrawal from the iran deal have on thoseh talks w north korea. >> one way for north korea to think that if the united states can walk away from a deal that everyone else says is working, why would i want to make aweal h them? why would i want to trust an

administration that walks away from such a good deal? the other option is for them to think, trump is not very -- >> notrt trust? >> trustworthy. trust is not very predictable, so the mad leader theory. play the mad, scare everybody intooing what you want them to something even more unexpected. >> we'll have to leave it there. professor abas malani, thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. turning now to tech. a group of u.c. berkeley students are using their tech skills to fight terrorism. they createdr, arc a nonprofit that builds tool to track connections between terror a organizationsnd sanctions violations among oththings. the inspiration behind their nonprofit is personal for these students. in 2016 two fellow u.c. berkeley lassmates died in terrorist attacks, one france and one in bangladesh. today nearlydo 2n u.c.

berkeley students donate their time. they're using data to fort worth human rights abuses, corruption and money laundering. joing me are the funders of archer, tyler hines is a junior and alice ma who graduated last year from u.c. berkeley welcome to you all. alice, let's begin with you. you founded archerth along w tyler and angelie. what is it and how does it work? >> archer builds data analysis software for investigators who look atcorruption, terror finance, war crimes and human rights. it's a subset amongst a larger set that we find systemic and criminal. we do this in a dual approach. the first is to our flagsh product architect which tyler will have some thoughts on andn the se is through the partnership's model where we talk to experts who generate insights from data that are trying to investigate these issues already. >> i think we choose our

partnerships really, really re lly. in particular we'll have the human rights center aty. bark they're holding bad actors accountable for the atrocities. >> how are you doing that? you're looking at a lot of data and putting it into a formatt' t easier for organizations to read and analyze? >> we do have a partnership like this but we have on major flagship product. we call it architect. this is a big data analysis platform and it organizes different critical public datasets into an intuitive network analysis vi so investigators can sort of explore connections between individuals and organizations bo acrossers and these are sort of just one big example of the type of tool that we build. >> and so, tyler and angelie, i know you were both in east france when the 2016 terrorist attack happens. tyler,ou describe that experience for us? >> i'd rather not talk too much

about nice itself but it was the first time i was exposed to a problem this real, this impactful and serious. it changed the way i look at the way i spend my time and ppeoritize what i my time on. there are much more important things that i should work for thake building apps or worrying about classes. tharcher is sog i should start and take forward. >> angelie, what was th l experiene for you? >> for me it was slightly different because the student who pass awayas one of my best friends so i was kind of alrcedy intro to what it would be like to experience something like this. but i think for me as well it just made it really clear that like i can no longer ignore issues of systemi security risks or human rights violations. it became urgent that i participate in combatting that, yeah. as you try to build these tools to help, you know, make the links between various terrorist organizations and who are the sanctions violators and how they're related to each

challenges dowhat you encounter? >>o i think the challenges that we encounter are twofold. there's one on the sidef -- there's literally just so much public data that's out there and the data h been exponentially growing in the last ten years. i think that's a broader context behind why archer exists and why it's impactful, because we discovered that the newsrooms or the analysts or the nonprofits that are working on these issues gere no l able to keep up with the information that's out there. so that's kind of how we a like making an intervention in the space, i guess. and that's extremelyg challeng because of just how much data is out there and how messy it can be. even with the shared manpower required to kind of gather it altogether and integrate it well, would saythat's one major challenge on a more thematic side for us. i guess it's something we've overcome thanks to like the ngenuity of the berkeley

students on oteam. besides ourselves, there's 19 other students that dedicate their time to this effort. and that actually brings me into a second challenge that i think is really important, which isli making an impact in this space when we're students. people always ask us, oh, you're ay student so d -- what do you do? like does it actually work? and, you know, how mu time do you spend on it? and i think we've overcome this as well with the help of our team and just being completely dedicated and building a product that speaks for >> you're all volunteering your time and you've in some wys devoted more than a full-time schedule to this. tyler, when you were developing these tools, what surprised you most? what did you learn from it? >> what really surprised mes that there are all these different atrocities happening te the world and there's so much information coll about them. however, there's so little work being done just because of the tools and the accessibility isn't out there for news rooms, journal lists, for people who

are involved in civil society. human rights organizations. >> human rights organizations. there's no way for people to analyze organizations in this way. we're trng to bring about tools to change that. >> i think what surprised us, too, is the fact that we were trying to do something about it is quite daunting. the three of us didn't really care but getting people -- we thought it was going to be hard to convince people to donate their time essentially. they were getting sixgure offers or whatever. it's been really easy. we have kids who are like taking their finals this week and also on client calls and also spending 40 plus hours so that was a nice surprise.ho >> and is using your tools right now? and have you been able to connect with any federal agencies? >> so -- so the product that we just launched a month ago is calleds tions explorer. it makes u.s. treasury data accessible and inciteinciteful. the users are urnalists, ople that work at academic

centers that work on nonproliferation issues. analysts that work on illicit finan or sanctions evasion to north korea. these are a subset of our users. i think we have reached out to the government, like the u.s. treasury regarding this particular tool many timha. we n't, you know, been actively engaged there honestly. we visited them before we started archer because we demoed several projects that we had builto the department of treasury, and they were very excited about it but i gue just kind of fell out of touch. >> so does that lack of contant changhing for you? are you still hopeful that this is an opportunity to bridgeap t between the bay area's tech epicenter, what you're doing, and policies being made in washington, d.c.? >> i think, yeah, the dayhat we launched i was sitting in class and our twitter was just i guess blowing up because of all the people -- like all the people who werecireally ed

that this existed for them. so it hasn't been like discouraging or anything. like we really understood in the immediate 24 hours after we launched sanction explorer like we canave a considerable impact. attending ou're rights con next week. in the meantime you're looking ahead, tyl, as you're volunteering on this. where would you like to take archer fsom here? >> over the next few months us three are going to be going full time. that's a big jumpor u going from students but we're going with the full commitment, going to this conference and our big focus is to get our products in theands of as many impactful users as possible and to lea about their problems andac imng that. >> scaling and making money? >> yeah. so a big focus for the next couple of months is also parchitect, our flags product, which integrates different

critical public datasets and makes them connected so that'sr what we focusing on. >> all right. good luck to all of you.a ce ma, tyler hines and angelie, thank you. that will do it for us as mways. you can finde of our coverage akqed.org. i'm thuy vu. thanks for joining us.

captioning sponsored by wnet >> sreenivasan: on this edition for sunday, may 13: the united states looks for her nations to exit the iran nuclear deal. in our signature segment, helping children who have parents in prison. and, looking ahead to next weekend's royal wedding. next on pbs newshour weekend. >> "pbs newshour weekend" is made possible by: bernard and irene scchartz. thyl and philip milstein family. sue and edgar wachenheim, iii. dr. p. roy vagelos and diana t. vagelos. the j.p.b. foundatio the anderson family fund. rosalind p. erwa barbara hope zuckerberg. corporate funding is provided by mutual of america-- designing customized individual and group retirement pro'sucts. thhy we're your retirement c