captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight... >> enthis is a trus setback for north korea and indeed a setback for the world >> woodruff: ...president trump cal tls o historic summit with north korea, accusing the regime of open hostility. then, top u.s. lawmakers are bried following president trump's claims that the f.b.i.pl nted a spy in his campaign. and the release of an n.b.a. pl'sayrrest video fuels the debate over excessive force bys police towardrican americans. algh that and more on tonis pbs newshour. >> mafunding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. olsupporting science, tecy, and improved economic performance and financial literacin the 21st century. arnegie corporation of n york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and individuals.

>> this program we made possi the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the singapore summit is canceled. putting an end, for now at least, to planning for president trump to meet with north korea's kim jong un in early june. today, the president sent a letter to kim, announcing he's pulling out and referring to the massive and powerful nuclear capabilities of the united states. foreign affairs correspondent nick schifrin begins our coverage. >> schifrin: president trump once said his summit with kim jong un cou safety for the world." today he said he had no choice but to cancel. >> based on the recent statement of north korea, i've decided to terminate the planned summit. i believe that this is a tremendous setback for north

korea and, indeed, a setback for the world. >> schifrin: the path from confidence to cancellation, took less than a month. >> i think we're looking at the libya model of 2003, 2004. >> schifrin: on april 29 national security advisor john bolton invoked libya its former leader muammar gadhafi, who in 2003 traded his nascent nuclear program for normalization, but in 2011 was overthrown and killed by u.s.-backed rebels. on may 16, north korean first vice minister of foreign affairs kim kye gwan called bolton "repugnant" and said "if the u.s. is trying to... force our unilateral nuclear abandonment, we will no longer be interested in such dialogue." on tuesday, vice president mike pence repeated the reference to libya. >> as the president me clear, this willnly end like the bya model ended if kim jong un

doesn't make a deal. >> some people saw that as a threat >> it's more of a fact. >> schifrin: last night, chief nor kean negotiator choe son hui called pence's remarks "ignorant" and "stupid" and added, "whether the u.s. will meet us at a meeting room or ounter us at nuclear-to- nuclear showdown is entirely dependent upon the decision and behavior of the united states." just hours later, trump cited those words to cancel the summit, and immediately mentioned the u.s. military was prepared. >and our military, which is by far the most powerful anywhere in the world, and has bee greatly enhanced recently, as you all know, is ready if necessary. >> schifrin: that's exactly the talk south korean president moon jae-in's been trying to prevent. he met president trump just two o ys d today expressed surprise. "i am very perplexed," he said in a statement, "and it is very rettable that the north korea-u.s. summit will not be held."s.

the ays north korea went back on its promise to invite experts, but journalists including associated press ease rafe were >> schifrin: but the nature of that denuclearization remains in dispute. north korea expresses interest in slow, step-by-step stdenuclearization, an-by- step american incentives. the u.s. would prefer all-in-one denuclearization. and administration officials say >> you can tell when something's coming together and people are getting back quickly, and the logistics are being worked out. it was yousense over the course of the last week or so, that that was diminishing, is that correct? >> we got a lot of dial tohe ine

community has long concluded kim would not negive up his nuclear weapons. but today, even after he cancelled, president trump repeated his faith in kim's intentions. >> they really want to do what's right, i really believe kim jong un wants to do what's right, and hopefully things will work out. >> schifrin: president trump >> schifrin: president trump he felt "very strongly" about canceling, but if the north koreans wanted to talk, he wo still open tit. for the pbs newshour, i'm nick schifrin. >> woodruff: for more now on why the president backed out of plans for the summit, i'm joined by our white house correspondent yamiche alcindor. so, yamiche, you have been working on the story all day. what have you learned about why? >> i learned the summit was nceled because white house officials believed north korea was engaged in a pattern ofbe vior that showed it wasn't serious about denuclearization. the senior white house official said and told me and the other reporters there s "radio silence" when it came to north korea. so they were trying to work out the logistics aoly issues

and at some point they stopped getting called back from their north korean counterparts and could gotten forward so this was bcancelause they didn't think they could be ready by june 12. >> woodruff: do you get a sense this is off permanently or could ome together again? >> two people i can at least quote on theeecord w kellyanne conway who is the white house counselor and rudy giuliani who is the president's personal attorney, both of them and several other people who can't be named all said they thought this was definitely going to happen, they thought president trump is very much i interesthaving many meeting happen. the problem is they're not sure whether or not north kea is really going to meet the conditions they want. rudy giuliani told me particular, i don't think it's necessarily totally canceled. kentyanne conway made ate p to say she thought t much that had been gained in the last few weeks, hostages were reeseed, north korean and south ko tan leaders haveir own

summit, and she thinks something could happen inur the f >> woodruff: interesting the president's attorney and political counselor are talking about foreign policy. >> yeah. >> woodruff: yamiche, what did yolearn about conditions or what the white house wants to have happen if anything's going to mov forward? >> that's the key here. i talked to people and asked them, okay, what needs to happen if the summit is going to happen, what can happen in the future? they said north korea cannot engage in mis testing, nuclear testing and they cannot publicly object to the u.s. and south korea military exercises. so that's kind of something 's pretty clear. but the things that the white house has been more cagey to confirm are there is reporting out there and at least one rson confirmed this to me that they want north korea to start dismantling its nuclear warheads, its nuclear material and interballistic missiles oversages and move them out of innorth korea wiix months. that was one person who told me that, but there were all the people at the white house i was tryi physically chase down

today and none would confirm that. so it's still up in the air what north korea has to do specifically for the united states to want to meet with them now. >> woodruff: sounds like a lot ioof discu underway internally. >> i think if north korea at least picks up the phone, they might be able to have a conversation. >> woodruff: yamiche alcindor, we thank you. >> woodruff: in the day's other news, senior justice, intelligence and f.b.i. officials briefed top members of the house and senate, on classified documents in the russia investigation. the briefings came as president trump claims the f.b.i. tried to infiltrate his 2016 campaign. the white house initiall arranged a republicans-only fing, before democrats objected. we'll have a full report, later in the proam. international investigators say there's no longer any doubt: the missile that destroyed a malaysian airlines pas unger plane ovaine in 2014, came from a russian military unit. they say the missile was trucked into ukraine from kursk, where a russian missile brigade is based. the findings were announced inth

netherlands, and prosecutors said the question now is: who fired the missile. >> we are entering the next phase of the investigation which is really now progressing towards the people who are responsible. now we are narrowingown and narrowing down to find the perpetrators. solee this as a confident c for the next phase. >> woodruff: investigators already concluded the missile was fired from ukrainian territory controlled by russian- backed rebels. 8 all ople on board the airliner were killed, and most were dutch. moscow denies any sponsibility. in syria, war monitors say air strikes killed 12 pro-government fighters overnight. they say those killed were foreigners, possibly organized by iran, and the air strikes likely came from u.s. coalition planes. the u.s. military said it has no information on the reports. there's word that u.s. airmen guarding nuclear missiles in wyoming used and sold l.s.d. for

months, before getting caught in 2016. the associated press reports tetrafficking in the mind-ng drug happened at f.e. warren air force base, ne cheyenne. 14 airmen were disciplined. the air force says none wa accused of using drugs while on duty. china, japan and europe are warning the u.s. not to raise tariffs on imported cars and auto parts. that's after president trump anorderexploration of the move, on national security grounds. edhe as trade talks with canada and mexico have stalled, over auto production. in beijing, china's foreign ministry warned of repercussions >): as everyone knows, china's stance is we oppose the abuse of national security clauses, which will seriously damage multilateral trade systems and disrupt normal international trade order. china will resolutely defend its own legitimate interests.

wdruff: the head of the united auto workers, dennis williams, voiced cautious support for the present's move. but some in mr. trump's own party, including texas republican congressman jeb ling, warned of touching off a global trade war. s.the enate voted today to overhaul rules for handling sexual harassment claims against lawmakers. ore bill eliminates a mand waiting period before accusers file aomplaint. it also requires legislators to repay the costs ofny settlements. the measure now goes to the house. oscar-winning actor morgan freeman apologized today aer eight women accused him of sexual harassment and other misconduct. cnn reported the allegations included touching, staring and suggestive comments. in a statement, freeman said, "i apologize to anyone who felt uncomfortable or disrespected-- that was never my intent."

and on wall street, the dow jones industrial average lost 75 points to close at 24,811. the nasdaq fell one point, and the s&p 500 slipped five. still to come on the newshour: briefing congress on why an f.b.i. informant was talking to the trump campaign. police release the video of a black professional basketball player arrested over a parking ticket, and much more. >> woodruff: for a select group of senior lawmakers, part of this day was spent meeting with top justice department and intelligence officials. e the topic was a sensite: the origins of the f.b.i.'s russia investigation, and a enconfal f.b.i. source's contacts with the trump campaign. esent trump, this week, has used this very issue to attack

the legitimacy othe probe, now led by special counsel robert mueller. own lisa desjardins has been following this story all day for us. lisa, what a drama dc. two separate briefings, top lle, department of justice officials going to the hill. take usthrough why there were two. >> they were on the exact same topic, what was known about an informant working with the f.b.i. as they looked into the trump thmpaign. first was with the department of justice. that was the first initiated by republicans in the house, devin noonunez, how intelligence chairman, wanted the questions answered in a classified segment. the white house convened and helped that meeting come together. trey gowdy was added to the t.invitation l who wasn't on it? democrats nor other senatell inence, ranking and chairman were not involved. that was the second meeting. the gang of aismght usually that

gis theup of top leaders responsible for looking into gedges matters like this that includes the top republican and ndemocratach chamber and on each intelligence committee. that's why there were two meetings. >> woodruff: this investigation, lisa, as we know, is about russia, whether there was a connection between the trump campai, the trump white house and russia. house of the white house involved in setting all this up? >> we ve now seen actually the investigate split. the mueller investigation is looking into any tiebetween russia and the trump campaign. but now there are questions ando investig all of that investigation, how the f.b.i. has handled things, toany, one eyebrow-raising moment, judy, i saw as i waite for the meeting at the senate with the see?of eight, who did i chief of staff john kelly, we knew he would be there, but the left of the photo, that is emmett flood, the white house attorney handling the elr investigation. when you think about this, judy,

you have a person representing the president and the white house, talking about classified information for annvtigation that may include the president as a target. even some republicns were concerned, including lindsey graham who told me he found it odd and wanted to know why that happened. the white house and democratic sources say the white housefi als did not get involved in the classified section of these briefings but instead ga remarks. still, if they were arguing the president's case here, is an exceptional circumstance, democrat mrnark , top democrat in the senate intelligence committee, sent out a ra strong statement from him saying the president, chief of staff and attorney have no business showing up to a classified intelligence briefing. there is real concern about lines being crossed here. >> woodruff: so after t briefing, democrats made a statement, a short one. tell us about that. >> that's right. the democrats ho how huddled foe some time after this meeting. they decided to send out one

representative, adam schiff, who read a 25 second statement saying we learned nothing new, feel there is no evidce saying the f.b.i. did anything wrong and left it at that. behi i the scenes, jud know democrats are concerned they do not want to be looked at a undermining any investigation or leaking any cssified information, but at the same time they believe this whole process is about undermining mueller. some republicans feel differently. >> woodruff: it's interesting republicans also said nothing. >> right. >> woodruff:ti potlyton fronting questions about whether they agree with the president's charge. >> we got statements fr ine in the first meeting. he basically said i was happy we got this information and h congre an oversight role. in the end, judy, i don't think weearned anything and it' not clear even our lawmakers learned >> woodruff: that's what i was going to ask. is there any sense any new information, arthey any clor

to understanding whether the president is right about whether the f.b.i. was spying on his campaign? >> if you listen to the statement from democrats, no. they say there was no new .evidence tod but republicans have not spoken, in general, about the stance ofs eeting. of course, it was classified. we as reporters, we as a nation, don't have any more information, and what we do have is a very difficult situation of teat is distraction and what is important debout the actions of our lawmakers. >> woodruff: further sign this investigation is taking over so much oit this >> we have to pay careful drtention. >> wf: lisa desjardins, thank you. >> woodruff: now, we examine the last few weeks of diplomacy with north korea and the decision by president trump to call off the summit with kim jong un. foreign affairs correspondent nick schifrin is back for that.

>> schifrin: thank you judy. christopher hill served as both the chief u.s. negotiator with north korea during the george w. bush administration and as u.s. ambassador to south korea. analytical policy journal on north korea. welcome to youveoth. thank yo much. jenny town, let me begin with you. in your opinion, why do you think this fell apart? >> i think the rea challenge started when john bolton made the comments starting to talk about the libya model. we all know how libya turned out. if you are north korea receiving those messages, you know, you've gotten the sense that the u.s. wants thisocess to be very quick. they want it to be, you know, the security guarantees on paper. and, younow, without changing the actual nature of our political relationship. so if you're north looking at this as sort of a veiled threat, and then the president following up afterwards by saying, oh, if you

don't make a dea you will end up like libya. oftentimes the north korsaeans before they're not going to negotiate with a gun to their head. soiohere is really the beh that they've shown in the past couple of days and past couple of weeks is really predictabvel, the way that they have been treated. >> ambassall, is this about the libya model and the administration's use of it or is there also a substantive disagreement about t nature of denuclearization? >> i think there's a substantive disagreement. i'm not sure the north koreans were really ready to give up their nuclear weapons programssp eially as the trump adnistration has been sayi in reese uppt weeks, we're not giving anything up, we're not going to beuy like the before, no sanctions relief, we're not going to do this until they've really given up all their programs. i think that probably worried them, and i think the trump administration got a little worried, especially when some of the north koreans took to the air waves to say that somehow

you certainly don't expect us to give u our nuclear weapons for just economic assistance, which is actually athey are expecting them to do. so i think both sides got very nervous. i must say i hope the trump administration takes this as an opportunity to revw its diplomatic traderaft, revie public messaging as they go toward a very difficult summit and, frankly, i think there's om for improvement there. >> jenny town, you were shaking your head during that. do you believe north korea is serious about the negotiation process? >> i think there serious about the denuclearization process. the u.s. only cares about north korea's nuclear weapons program and sort of project what they think the north korean want and have sort of discounted what the north koreans actually say obey want. the m is when the north koreans are approaching this, you know, they are looking at more of a holistic view of what that relationship actually means, so it'sou not just

to try and buy them off, but security guarantees mean nothing when you have no trust between your countries. so having something on pever, if it's signed, we've all seen agreements fall apart from administration to administration as, you know, far back as the framework as to now as recent a the iran deal and john bolton was there for bothta ies. this is one of the cases where, sure, you might notve bel but if you don't try, first of all, you will never know.ai but cey north korea is in a position right now where they were serious about negotiations, they were doing unilateral actions to try to create the momentum for it. but,e same time again, they're not going to do it unilaterally or with a gun to their head. >> in that sense, they're not going to do it unilaterally or with a gun to their head. the u.s. xpectations, wereu.s. expectations going into the summit perhaps too high? >> i think they're perhaps too high that somehow in juan-off

summit you could get the north koreans to sayre giving up all our weapons and giving them up now. that kaid the norreans do ask for broader concepts which is why when i was doing this the put to a peace treaty, we put together cross recognition of states, we talked about a lot of different things in that great, and it seems that whenan the north koask for these kind of broad things and you move heaven and earth in washington to get everyone to agree and you bring it back to the north koreans and vai, voila, look -- voila, look what we've done, they seem to be disinterested in it. i'm afraid it comes down to the question of denuclearization and whether they're prepared to do that. i hem with denuclearization everything is possible, i didn't go as far as president trump has gone in that regard, i said with itng everyts possible, but if you don't denuclearize, frankly, nothing is possible, and i think the stakes -- i think it's prty stark and i think the north koreans really do have some thinking to do because they need to decide whether heavy

nuclear weapons offers them a etter future and i don't think it does,and i think we ought to keep at it, and i do not agree with those who say weeed to accept somehow a nuclear north korea, kind of live with it and contain it something. i think we continue to need to do what the president has been saying, which is denuclearization. >> jenny town, this is a peninsula, we're talking about north korea, south korea, the u.s., south korean alliance. is there any threat to that alliance today? >> well, i mean, this is a rely bad way to have announced it. the way that donald trump did this was really theay worst possible and the worst timing mpossible especially win jae-in just leaving washington thinking everything was on track. so it goes to some of the antagonism the scenes have felt under the administracation, resung and manifesting, once again, in a very important issue and one moon has put so much personal capital in as well, so it's really bad for them. >> ambassador, quick quickly,

what's left? the u.s. say theall is in north korea's court. what's the lyle response and what are we expecting to see next? >> well, it was quite a remarkable letter that thethog evidently puther there. i do hope the parts in it which eaal with continuing the dialogue are i think it's very important for the trump administration to have a teamf people, doesn't have to be the secretary of state, it can be the assrstant secre, could be an office director, but they need to be able to keep sounding out the north koreans on what might be possible. look, if north korea can come to the understanding that we can cept a lot from them but we cannot accept nuclear stat, then i think things can be done, i think the president has tried in his own way to suggest that he's willing t with north korea and live with them ve g well if theye up their nuclear weapons. so i hope we can continue that and put away this my nuclear

arsenal is bigger than yours. >> we have to leave it there. ambassador christopher hill and jenny town, thank you very much. >> woodruff: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: why an economist says the people ldwho invest your money sh have "skin in the game." and the story of jack johnson, the boxing champion president potrump humously pardoned today. but first, a case of police force in milwaukee that city officials admit was excessive. n it is raising anger agout the treatment of african- americans by law enforcement. as amna nawaz reports, this case involved a professional basketball player, and included a lengthy body cam video from the police. >> do you have a driver's license? where's it at? back up? you don't see the issue here? >> don't touch me.

>> nawaz: the milwaukee police last night released body camera footage showing the arrest of n.b.a. player sterling brown. the officer confronted the milwaukee bucks player for a parking violation, in the middle of the night in late january. >> nawaz: brown was wrestled to the ground and then tased. >> taser! taser! taser! >> nawaz: brown was arrested, given a parking ticket and released with no criminal charges. his injuries, still visible ring his next game. news reports today said the milwaukee police department suspended and plans to retrain two sergeants and an officer a both the may the police chief apologized to brown. >> i'm sorry the incident escalated to this level. our department conducted an investigation into the incident, erwhich revealed that me

acted inappropriately and those members we're recently discipned. >> nawaz: in a statement, sterling brown said he plans to take leg milwaukee police department to "continue forcing change in our community." milwaukee mayor tom barrett also criticized the officers' use of force. >> this type of behavior has no place in our city. >> nawaz: let's get some reaction to the ca, how the police handled it and what should change going forward. deray mckesson is an organizer with project zero and the black lives matter movement. and david klinger is a criminal justice professor at the university of missouri, st. louis and a former los angeles police officer. we invited milwaukee's mayor, poece chief and representat of the police union. all declined opor didn't r to our offer. so thanks for bere to both of you. deray, i want to start with you.

we heard the polic the mayor all apologized for the actions taken by the officer there, but the police uni is defending the actions saying the use of force will never look pretty but is unfortunately a necessary component of policing. what's your response >> it's good the mayor came out f ying this was inappropriate, good the police chme out saying it's inappropriate. we have to be mindful they're saying the officers were disciplined but won't tell us what the discipline was. anything that allows these police officers to still police communities in washington is not a good solution. the police union has an aggressive statement and come down and say the force was justified which was clearly not the caseey asered him for no reason. none of that is okay. >>anet's talk about what so people have seen in the video. it's a 30-minute vid. it's been viewed more than a million times which is twice the population of the city of milwaukee. hodoes it go fromero to 60

so quickly? >> let me challenge one assertion your guest made said it's obvus the use of force was inappropriate. we don't know that. we can't see from the body cam exactly what happened. how it goes from zero to 60 is this, you had a situation where a police officer did not manage the confrontation that he got from mr. brown appropriately. as soon as you get resistance, as soon as someotarts to push back, you have to understand, huh, i'm dealing with something oer than a standard issue, in this case parking ticket stop, and go ahead and try to calmhings down. instead, what he did is he starts using lauage such as this is my space. i own this space. now, the police officer has every right to control that space but he doesn't need to explain it that way. he could say, sir, you need to step back, let me explain why, i can't let you g access to this motor vehicle, that's a legitimate reason to create space between himself and the

individual the officer called for an additional unit which is a good thing, andultiple units showed up. many times, when a large group of police officers ahow up to situation where it really isn't warranted, the emotions kick up. so the combination of not managing the verbal interaction initially in an appropriate faion, trying to deescalate is the term of art now, and havingf multiple policcers show up when there wasn't the need forte that many cra very tension-filled environment. >> you mentioned what we don't see in the video, we are relying on the one body cam here, what do you think could have happened? what would have jtified that level of use of force? >> well, you have a situation where a citizen refuses t comply with a lawful order and let's assume for a moment it was r a lawful or go ahead and keep your hands out of your pocket to mr. brown. mr. brown places his hands in the pockets. the ofcers get apprehensive, go ahead and grab mr. brown. the question is i he is struggling against that, take him to the ground.

i do not understand the use of hye taser. i don't know the officer who deployed the taser did so. mwhen you havetiple officers in that close proximity and you've got the individu on the ground, doesn't make a lot of sense why a taser uld be employed. but i want to read the police report and hear exactly from mr. brown's mouth what happened so i can get a better sense of whether the tasing was appropriate or inappropriate. >> let's talk about what we know based on the video, too. you hear them going back and forth, steing brown and the initial officer who confronts him about the parking violation. they eve get intot afterwards when he's been hand couched and is standing there, they go back and forth about who initiated everything. it you think there's a sharing of blame wheomes to the escalation? >> no. i'm reminded the police dont's get to willy-nilly come into people's lives or thite comms or any of their perm space and just say if you don't tgree with them in that mom that that is just a crime, that that's resisting arrest. we know a third of all the

people killed in this country killed by a stranger is actually killed by a police officer. we think of violence by policee that's pervasin a challenge like this incident, we see no real accountability. so with the police saying they have been disciplined, what does that mean? the fact they're being coy about what that means, i think t video, and i must disagree with the other guests, i think it's clear, it's not car to me at all why the officer stopped him in such an aggressive way. it can't be just because te police say take your hands out of your pocket and do this and that, the community just have to comply with anything the police have to say because they're the police. we don't live in a police state tand that is he standard. >> let me ask you about the accountability point derays raising. they're saying three members of the police force have been suspended as a result d this. 't know what else will happen. this is something milwaukee to stop and it's already cost taxpayers

$20 million in police misconduct since 2017, does that send a ssage that this behavior won't be tolerated? >> i don't believe it does because we don't know what they're disciplined before. my understanding is theree more officers involved. the officers are disciplined for a purpose which is a key question. if you're on the police side and say what are the gu disciplined for, we don't know and how can you alter the behavior. stepping back to the assertions, when a police officer has lawful ndrrant to stop somebody a clearly parking your motor vehicle in a handicaised zone a violation of a milwaukee ordinance or a wisconsin law, i n't know what thestory is there, but then once the officer has a lawful stop, he or she has the right to control where e you d what you do and to keep yourahands in plain view. i'm sorry, if you engage in behavior where a police officer has reasonable suspension to detain you or probable cause to arrest you, you have to do what he or she ss. >> we see video after video of

similar encounters a lot and a lot more tragically than this one, why is this so hard to crack? why can't this be fixed? >> it's so harbecause we continue to get the narratives that police have to comply wh anything the police officer says. >> that was the law. slavery was the l too. i don't accept that was a just thing and that people have to comply with unjust behaviors by police departments jt because you don't want them do. >> keep your hands in plain view, how is that unjust. >> the fact people can taser people, that's unjust. they tasered your son, it would be different. iit wasn your so or somebody who looks like you. one in eleven homicides in california is by a police officer. what about that? that is a problem. we should live in a world where we don't accept the violence from the police. w n people feel they're being asked to do something by a police officer that isn't just, do you still say they should comply request in that moment? >> absolutely. the courts ruled that the

case. you comply and you file the complaint. now with bod cams, so on and so forth, the evidence is there if the officeis doing something appropriate. if the detention is illegal and the officer is issuing illegal commands there is redress. >> hue do you file a police complaint from the grave, when you have been beaten and brutalized so badly you can't speak anymore, how do you do that? >> well, sir, this was not a situation. >> exactly, you don have an answer for that. that is because the police continue to harm people in communities and it can' be just that you comply willy-nilly. >> sir, whs you are doing you are creating a narrative for people to go ahead and refuseo comply with the police which is only going to exacerbate the what i am saying is that the you should comply with awful order to the police and the police need to learn how to do better job of structuring interactions. i agree that the police did not act in a fully appropriate way in this fashion, but to run from that to an argument tt people don't have to comply with the

ntlice, when the police have lawful warto detain them, is wrong. >> david klinger, what do you want to see happen in police departments ne? better training focusing on two things, one interpersonal communication skills and two the managementf space. so i we get police officers who know how to verbally cool people out and now ho tomanage space, we can reduce these acrosshe board. >> deray, i'll give you the last word. what do you ve to say about what should happen next. >> there are people who want it to be apl cated issues that we need ten thousand series about. the one thing it's about race. >> no, it's not. the other is as long as the police have no accountability d oversight they will continue to do these things. >> deray mckesson, david klinger, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you for hing me. >> woodruff: this year marks the tenth anniversary crash of 2008, which began with the demise of the investment bank bear stearns.

few people saw the crash coming but economics correspondent paul solman certainly approached the possibility, with, among others, investor nassim taleb. laul recently caught up with him again to hear hist concerns for our weekly series, making sense. >> reporter:in 2006, when he was a hedge fund owner, economic contrarian nassim tal warned of a coming financial crisis in his then soon-to-be- published book, the black swan. as i understand it, your central insight is that people underestimate the likelihood of rare events. >> exactly. and my idea is twofold, number one, that rare events happen more often, and, two, that, when they happen, they're far more devastating than we can imagine. >> reporter: more than a dece later, taleb believes there's a con going on, and that the

federal reserve's response to the 2008 crisis is part of it. so what's the point of the new book? >> unless a person owns his or her risk, the system will evally collapse. >> reporter: the whole system? >> the whole system. >> reporter: the book is skin in thme, which argues that a financial system works only if the people who are runt have a stake in the outcome. >> and you should build a sokeety in which people who decisionare eventually penalized if something goes wrong. >> reporter: teb's gripe with both big gernment and big business today: that decision makers pay no penalty. >> it's that rise of the class, the no-skin-in-the-game class in decision-making. people who intervene in iraq thinking, "hey, we're going to bring democracy," some abstract concept. the thing falls apart, and they walk away from it. in the financial world, we have

the same class, a lot of bankers, for example, has not been reduced by the crisis. as a matter of fact, they were compensated. >> reporter: what risk are they posing to us now? >> the sis loaded with debt that has benefited these bankers. the chairman of a certain bank now is making $23 million a year again in bonuses. >> reporter: that would be jamie dimon of jp morgan chase, and his 2017 bonus was actually $28 million, $5 million in cash and $23 million in restricted stock tied to performance. the c.e.o.s of the other megabanks weren't far behind. bankamerica's brian moynihan and citigroup's michael corbat each got $21 and a half million stock bonuses. and tim sloan, of scandal- plagued wells fargo, got a $15 million stock bo but the point is, says taleb, none of them had skin in the game, and continue to proceed risk-free. but if i'm a manager, c.e.o. of

a company and i have stock options, then i am punished d the stock gon. >> no, not really, because you still have upside, net you have upside. >> reporter: you mean i'm never going to have money taken away from me. >> exactly, whereas the taxpayer only has a downside. the taxpayer will never have the benefit of what's going on, but we pay the price as taxpayers, in case something goes wrong. >> reporter: because we're going to bail them out, you mean? >> of course, so we are really the people who are owning the risk. if people can make money transferring risk to others and aren't penalized, then the system will blow up. it's very dangerous, and it's unfair, it's immoral. >> repter: but wait a second. didn't the federal reserve-- the institution charged with savin the banking system-- in fact save it, by creating new money through so-called quantitative easing? >> the federal reserve tried to cure debt with debt, transferring debt from one to the other, from the private to the public. >> reporter: what you mean is

that that federal reserve has createral trillion dollars, and that's money th a eventually trican public, at least in coept, in theory, going to have pay back? >> exactly. those who caused the crisis are rich today. e>> reporter: but didn't federal reserve pour money into em and keep it going and prevent the very paralysis that you were worried about. >> no, that was novocaine. >> rorter: you told me in 2008, you said we could be back to barter. it could be worse, i could quote you, it could be worse than the great depresamon back to the ican revolution. >> let me tell you, in 2008, what it should have done at the time, first of all that we should have done, is immediately try to convert debt into equity, make sure those that caused the crisis were penalized, not gular people. i would like the federal reserve to understand that interest rates, very low interest rates, quantative easing, drove people into higher end assets and stocks. who benefited from it? people who owned a lot of stocks

and peop owned real estate. 00 haven't really remedied what caused 2 there's still a lot of debt in the system. >> reporter: so, how do we protect ourselves? >> i'm not telling yt to do, i'm going to tell you what i'm doing. >> reporter: yes, that's what i want to know. what a yourself against the black swan. >> what i'm doing is i have a shary money in currency. >> reporter: foreign currency, that is. >> maybe about 35%. plus i have some money that i spend to protect myself from crazy rise in interest rates. it may not happen, but i'm paying that to sleep at night. >> reporter: and where is that? >> it's technical, like derivatives. to protect myself from a rise in-- >> reporter: so, if interest rates rise, yo>>would-- ramatically. i don't think-- >> reporter: you would make money on these securities that you own. xactly. and then the rest is i own stoc, i own some real estate i own the usual things. >> reporter: i had one lt question. is the system today more fragile under president trump? were you in favor of donald

trump? >> i was not against. trump came in with very simplistic ideas, but anybody with that same mindset, in other words "i'm not part of that group of people" would have been welcome. and there's some optimism, so let's see. but we have to do things to clean up the system of-- >> reporter: or, what's going to happen? >> the system laden with debt and with pseudo experts will collapse eventually. now it may be that miraculously, under trump, we may have a second wind and america may rise again, a the debt. >> reporter: you mean huge economic growth? >> that's my hope. but nevertheless, i'm a skeptic. he got the disease right. now whether he's going to fix it, i don't know. >> reporter: and, of course, neither does anye else. for the pbs newshour, economics correspondent paul solman, reportfrom new york.

>> woodruff: today president trump granted a rare posthumous pardon to jack johnson, boxing's first african-american heavyweight chg pion. john ys more. >> yang: judy, in 1913 an all- white jury convicted johnson of violating the federal mann act, which made it illegal transport women across state lines for "immoral purposes. the woman in question was johnson's girlfriend, who was white. johnson was heavyweight champ from 1908 to 1915. outside the ring, he defied conventions by showing off his wealth, mocking white opponents and, perhaps most shocking for the times, dating and marrying white women. president trump signed the pardon in the oval office. >> i am taking this very righteous step, i believe, to correct a wrong that occurred in our history and to honor a truly

legendary boxing champion, legendary athlete, and a person that when people got to know hiy really liked him and they really thought he was treated unfairly. >> yang: the 2004 documentary "unforgivable blackness" tells the story of jack johnson and was di burns, who joins us now on skype. ken, thanks so much for being here. you are one of those who were advocating for this pardon. what's your reaction now that it's a fact? >> this is the right thing to do, and i'm just so happy that john mccain, who really led us through a decade and a half in this, is going to live to hear about it. so i'm very, very thrilled at this posthumous pardon and you have to understand it may be, i tink, the onlyrd posthumous pardon, all african-americans, which tells you a little bit about race in america.

mentioned john mccain. what about the man who actually signed the pardon, president trump? >> well, you know, to me, this is som we have been add vo advocating for an awfully long time. it's very interesting johnson's private life as you described was quite controversial and involved not just marrying and sleeping with whomever he wanted to, but also involved charges of violence, domestic violence. so there are some interesting things. the most important thing, i think, is it shines a light on the racism of that period but aso the racism of our period where code wornd racist remarks still sort of populate itr speech, ans very, very harmful to an african man back then, jack johnson, who was the undispughted heavy w champion of the world and arguably the greatest of all time mohamed ali in his camp thought they were, and when ali sparred, they said ghost in the house, ghost in the house, but almost for men of color today,

almost daily we hear of incidents of these things happenin b so the pardoins to remind us, i believe, of how much work we have the a do, the fact that it really begins with eaofh ons if we're really going to change this dynamic and live out, as dr. king said, the true meaning of our creed. >> help us understand more about d o jack johnson was, how he lis life in those times, and how that sort of fit i his times. >> you can't believe that he wasn't assassinated. his reign from the mid aughts to 1915 was a time when more african-americans were lynched for looking sideways at a white woman, more often than not. ive fact he sured in his lifestyle and the status he carried in his sport, the termgr tht white hope is when he won on boxing day in908, every

white contender went after him, he beat them all andn july 4 he beat the biggest, retired star jim jeffries who had never been defeateed, kno him out in reno, nv nevada, and there were white-on-black riots that killed a lot of african-americans thut the country with a white race terrified this had some larger symbolism other than a man who, all his life, just wanted to be a man, and wasn't might anybodys cause, didn't want to be a civil rights leader. >> talk more about that that he did not see himself as a leader of a movement and compare him to jackie robinson or mohamed ali. >> jackie robinson is the one who comes tond most frequently. jackie robinson did understand the larger role he was playing. jack johnson wanted to box, make money, he wanted to sleep with whomever he wanted, he wanted to live the way he wanted to. insome ways, h a perfect

american, but we also have added in our demands for heroism people tbe more than that and i think jackie robinson realized and assumed oe burdenf what his symbolic act of trotting out to first base on april 13, 1947, meant for civil rights. jack johnsted no such qualms. he wanted to live well and he did. >> filmmaker ken burns, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> woodruff: ken burns had a lot more to say about race relations then and now. oyou can find that and mo our website, pbs.org/newshour. >> woodruff: finally, we turn to another installment of our weekly brief but spectacular series. tonight, author and astrophysicist, neil degrasse tyson. for more than two decades, he has rved as director of the hayden planetarium in his home town of new york city. tyson's last book, "astrophysics for people in a hurry," is availle now.

>> what i think actually happened, was that the universe chose me. i know that's not a very scientific sentence, but that's what it felt like the universe said, "come, neil join us." and yeah, i never looked back, ck at earth. i kept looking up i was starstruck at age nine. a visit to my local planetarium,. having been born in the bronx, i thought i knew how many stars there were in the night sky, about a dozen. then you go into the dome of the planetarium and then thousands of stars come out. i just thought it was a hoax. by age 11 i had an answer to that annoying question adults always ask children, what do you want to be when you grow up? i said, astrophysicist. that usually just shut them up right nobody knew anybody who was an astrophysicist and then i'd get

back to the telescope. deniers are people who wish the world were a way tes not agree with the operations of nature, and that's a v believe what you want. i'.not going to even stop y i would st hope you don't rise to power over legislation and laws that then affect other people who do understand how science works. that's dgerous. skepticism is, "i will only believe what you believe what you tell me in proportion to the weight of idence you present." if you start speaking in way where no known law of physics supports it, then i'm going to be all over you with my skepticism i'm recognized basically several hundred times a day. i wish i could put on a mustache and not be noticed but of course, i have a mustache. they don't care about , tell me about that black hole you mentioned a program i saw the

other day. , will we ever travel through space? it's like, i'm just this, this smorgasbord of science food and i got them hungry from something i did beforend they're still hungry and they want more. most of my professional effort is trying to get adults scientifically literate. i think kids are born curious and if you fix the adult problem, the kids prgets fixed overnight. but part of my confidence is i see this generation who's been born since 1995, they're like teens, low 20s. that generation has only everet known the intes a source op access to knowledge. i have very highand expectationsor what world they will create when they actually assume the mantlesf power. it's the gap between when they do and what's going on now that concerns me. it's the adults that may have

once been curious and foot or there's a flame that has been tamped down and you want to fan that flame and reawaken a sense of wonder about this world that we so often take for granted. when i see eyes light up because that moment was reached, i'm done. i'm neil degrasse tyson, your personal astrophysicist, and this is my brief but spectacular take on bringing the universe down to earth. >> woodruff: and you can watch more brief but spectacular videos online at pbs.org/newshour/brief. on the newshour online right now, companies are racing to launch the country's first "smart gun" on the market, but there's a problem: gun shops aren't likely to sell it. read all about it and much more on our website,ne pbs.orhour. and that's the newshour for tonight. on friday, a hollywood duo, the duplas brothers, chronicle

their directing and acting careers in t new book. pl analysis of shields and brooks. i'm judy woodruff. erjoin us online and again tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and seyou soon. >> major funding f the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> knowledge, it's where innovation begins. it's what leads discovery and motivates us to succeed. it's why we ask the tough questions and what leads us to the answers. at leidos, we're standing behind working to improve the world's health, safety, and efficiency. leidos. >> kevin. kevin! >> kevin.

>> advice for life. life well-planned. learn more at raymondjames.com. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewersyoike you. than captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

(people talking) ♪ >> this is very deliciou (laughter) >> nigella: a table is more than a piece of furniture, just as food is more than mere fuel. wh i moved into my first home many years ago,re be did anything else, i bought a table-- and not just to eat at, but to live around. chin-chin, amici. (toasting) >> nigella: at my table, when i'm winding down at the end of a long day... they're ready for me, and i'm ready for them. ...celebrating friendship at weekend feasts, or making memories with family... (laughter) ...the food i eat is vibrant and varied, but always relaxed. old favorites...so ar, so good.