welcome to anticipam man po pbs, with women running for election in the united states, i speak to one of them. >> why democracy itself is at risk. good evening everyone, and welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour. in london. the united states is seeing a surge in diversity, at least

when it comes to candidates running for office in 2018. as pry marys are proving, it is a big year for fielding women and military and national security veterans. not only do they believe they bring unique experience to the table, because many of the candidates are democrats they hope to create a so-called blue wave in november's elections. my guest tonight, lieutenant-colonel amy mcgrath is three of those things, she's a democrat, a woman, and she's a vet. she was the first ever female to fly an f-18 in combat in aven afghanistan she was a novice to politics until she pulled off a stunner this month winning in kentucky this month. no stranger to politicians she'll run against a republican for house seat in one of the reddest states in america. this was the campaign ad that started it all. >> when i was 12 years old i

knew exactly what i wanted to do when i grew up. i wanted to fly fighter jets and land on aircraft carriers because that's the toughest flying you can do. when i was 13, my congressman told me i couldn't flying in combat. he said congress thought women ought to be protected and not allowed to serve in combat. i never got a letter back from my senator mitch mcconnell. some are telling me a democrat can't win that battle in kentucky. that we can't take back our country for my kids and yours. we'll see about that. >> and mcgrath joined me from louisville, kentucky. lieutenant-colonel, welcome to the program. >> it's great to be here. >> the last bit of the ad you put down a challenge. before we start i want you to comment on the incredible number of former military vets like yourself -- military vets, former members of the u.s.

national security and intelligence structure, former cia and others getting into this fight -- this political fight. what do you think you can bring to the table at our time right now? >> well, i think one of the reasons is, we have a lot of experience in national security and the wars that we have been fighting. the very complex nature of the wars we've been fighting and we're very concerned about our country. we're concerned about its leadership. and we are the types of people who have stood up in the past. we've been the ones who volunteered to be in the armed forces, for example. and we're not just going to sit by and watch our country go in the wrong direction. we feel that we have a voice, we feel that it's time, and i think this is all a part of that. i think that's why you're seeing so many veterans step up today. >> it is extraordinary, because clearly that resonates with people. granted, you are running a

democratic primary, so you were competing against a democratic opponent, who nonetheless was incredibly popular, the mayor, who you beat, he was very popular. and you started with, i believe, a 47 point deficit, and you managed to more than catch up. what do you put that down to? >> well, it's about the climate. i mean, people are looking for something different. it's about who do you want to elect who's going to be a change agent and really what we need right now. do we need more standard politicians? while the -- my opponent, who i ran against was very popular, this shows you that people are looking for folks who can cut through the partisan divide that we have. folks who don't necessarily have a background in one political party or another, but people who have served the country and who are going to put the country above politics. that is really resonating.

that i believe is what people want. and that's why i'm running. >> you talk about, especially in your ad, how from the very youngest of ages, 12 years old, 13 years old, you were writing to politicians, you were writing to the leadership in the political arena, you know, demanding the rights, i think, to go to combat and to flying in combat. what did that do for you? >> my experience in the military and my dream as a 12-year-old, as a 13-year-old and writing to members of congress asking them to open up the positions for women in combat and then subsequently going out and following that dream and making it happen. what has that taught me? it's taught me that -- step up. it's taught me that i can do it. i knew that i could fly fighter jets when i was 12 years old.

i just needed the opportunity. and once given that opportunity, i just worked very hard. anybody that knows me, knows that was the case. and as we look at this election, it's the same thing. >> how tough is it to fly an f-18 in combat? how tough is it to get on and off those aircraft carriers? >> you know, i get asked a lot, what's tougher, flying an f-18 or running for office, for congress? but i'll be honest with you, i have small children. i have three toddlers. and that's way harder than either one of those things. but flying an f-18 on a carrier or really anywhere, it's a matter of training. we get a lot of training going into it. it's years. you have to be intense, you have to be on, you have to be smart, and you have to perform.

and i -- it's a lot like -- i always say flying an f-18 is kind of like playing a soccer game but doing a math problem at the same time. you have to -- your mind has to be in it, and your body has to be in it. it is the ultimate job and i absolutely loved it and did it for a decade. >> now your main issue is health care and other social issues that are really, really important. you just talked about being a mom of toddlers. and one of your campaign videos was taking your kids to a doctor's appointment. so as we play that, it was kind of funny. i think he dropped his pants, your kid, and ran down the hallway. what are the issues, particularly in your state, around health care that you want to rectify? >> well -- and this is the most important issue for kentuckians, it's the most important issue for the people of the sixth district and the 19 counties that make up the sixth district.

kentucky was a beneficiary of the affordable care act. it did a lot of good for kentucky. we brought the uninsured rate down -- it was above 20% down to about 5%. and people are very concerned. they're concerned -- folks who have preexisting conditions, they're seeing premiums rise, folks who just can't afford health insurance. that's why it's the number one issue. that's the issue i started this campaign on. it's the one issue that i really want to work on and make better. and i think that's the big thing. we need to elect people that actually want to fix it and make health care better for folks in america, and make it better for kentuckians. that's what i want to do. >> it's a big challenge in kentucky, right? it's a very anti-obama state, it's a very pro-stump state? you have your work cut out for you and you haven't gone against your republican challenger.

just on that issue, of course, your opponent is not talking about you not being a local candidate, you have all this national attention because of your unique personal back story and you've got support from national leaders in your party. what do you say to those who say, you know, you know more about the rest of america than you do about your local district, about your state? >> well, i mean, i'm not shying away from the fact that i served my country for 24 years. i'm honest with people about that. but i am a kentuckian. i've come home. in the primary, i won 18 of the 19 counties in this district. and i won -- of those 18, they are essentially all the rural counties. so i feel very confident that i've been able to reach out and connect with people in rural kentucky. that is really going to be the key.

i mean, that's part of the reason why folks in kentucky went so much for president trump, is that whatever you think about him, i acknowledge the fact that he spoke to people who were feeling left behind. and, you know, i want to do the same thing. and in my campaign, i focus heavily on those areas where people feel like, hey, our government and our political parties on both sides are not listening to them. so, you know, it's about going out there and talking to people. >> so i wonder whether you think his voters, the people who came out for him and made him president in many of the areas that you're talking about, what are they going to feel like when, for instance, europe today is maybe threatening tariffs on bourbon, a huge kentucky export is bourbon, right? and today the president has announced tariffs on allied nations that export metals,

including to your state -- how is that going to affect all kentuckians, but particularly those who voted for president trump? >> that's right. and i think people are starting to see that the president really isn't following through with his promises. you know, candidate trump promised, you know, to work on health care, he promised infrastructure, he promised help with the economy. kentucky, the bourbon industry. you know, whenever you slap on -- you know this, whenever you slap on a tariff against any country, there's blowback. there's going to be some consequences. and we're going to feel it here in kentucky, and i think people start to get that. >> i want to go back to your own personal story. you took a lot of inspiration from your father who very tragically died suddenly during

your campaign but also from your mother and her professional choices and the hardships she had to overcome. tell me a little bit about what you got from your parents. >> well, tremendous strength. my mother was one of the first women to graduate from the university of kentucky medical school. and my father was always a rock of strength for me. but what i learned in this process and it really goes back to being 12 or 13 years old and wanting to do something that wasn't open to me, that people said girls couldn't do. i remember going to my mother and saying, hey, mom, i think i want to do this. and her response is, you know, you can do it. you can do it. just keep working on it. i looked at her and said well, the challenges i've got, they're nothing compared to what mom did, so i can do this. >> finally, your husband is a republican. or at least a republican voter. and he apparently famously didn't vote for you in the

primaries. what's that all about? how does that go down at home? >> well, you know, we decided that we were going to stay true to who we were. when i decided to run for office, we weren't going to change who we are, and eric's a republican. he's been a republican since he was 18. and, you know, while we -- we actually agree with 90% of the issues. and really that's america. that's america. most of the time we agree. and so, i think that we decided this is the right thing to do, for him to be him and me to be me, and, you know, here we are. >> do you think he'll vote for you in the general election? >> he better. >> lieutenant-colonel mcgrath, thank you for joining me. >> thank you. it's wonderful to be here. i appreciate it. >> now, even if she does get her husband's vote, she face face an

uphill battle in a district that was easily won by donald trump in 2016. but from pennsylvania to alabama we've seen in recent months that having the president on your side isn't enough to carry all republicans over the finish line. my next guest said what's at stake is more than partiship. my next guest is an author. he tells me the dangers are real, but there are also real solutions. welcome to the program. >> thank you so much. >> the people versus democracy and the line is how our freedoms are in danger. you started this before the trump wave. what is it that triggered your interest before these big winners? >> i started to look around the world and saw populist parties

were doing better and better in elections, and then i started to see that people could be unhappy with their local politics. that most governments had bad approval rating. >> you basically talked about democratic deconsolidation but importantly that democracy is no longer the only game in town. >> that's right. >> in democracy? >> so the idea for a long time was once you have a pretty stable system, you have the affluence, you change governments, the elections a few times, democracy has become the only game in town. and that's meant people understand the importance living in a democracy. so i did some research with a colleague, we tried to look at that. and what we found is that's not always true. >> what did you find in the united states? i ask because of the rise of donald trump. what did you find, you know, older voters? younger voters?

what did people tell you about the importance of democracy to them. >> in 2014 we found for example older americas, born in the 1930s, 1940s, over two thirds gave huge importance to living in a democracy. younger americans, born in the 1980s, less than one third. >> that's a dramatic shift. >> it is. so among all age group, the number of americans who think that rule is a good system of government increased from one in 16. >> army rule in the united states, one in six people think it's a good idea. >> i'm not sure they would cheer if it came out. but it shows how many americans say this system isn't working. we need to find something knew. i was talking to a young student a couple days ago, he told me i

don't trust these politicians, nobody cares about us anyway. perhaps we need to put it aside and start a new system. >> that's all well and good. let's say people are looking for something knew to get them out of this mess they feel they're in. but to make the leap to this populist wave, this lack of democracy, that takes something. that's a troubling turn. >> i think what it takes is many decades of political disappointment. what we have to ask is why was the democracy so stable in the past, in the post-war era for example and why less and less stable now? i think one of the reasons is democracies used to offer their citizens rapd improvement in living students. in the united states in the '40s it doubled. but since 1985, it's been flat. >> this is not just the u.s. you looked at eastern european,

there's a prime minister in hungary who termed the coin a liberal democracy. >> yes. >> like that's something to be proud of. >> if you remember church hill's famous speech, an iron curtain -- you can now travel from the baltic sea in the north of the continent down to the mediterranean sea in the south and never leave a country ruled by populists. as we're seeing in hungry, they'they attacking democratic institutions. hungary today is no longer a true democracy. going back to what i was saying earlier, the affluent countries had a change of governments for free and fair elections are consolidated. >> what i found interesting, you touched on one of the issues which was economic stagnation, the lack of growth. in the past when democracy was

flourishing, economic growth was rapid and strong enough to empower not just the rich but the middle class and indeed the working class, right? >> yep. >> now it's not. so you identify that stagnation. you identify fear of the foreigner, the migrants playing into that fear of stagnation. and then you add to this poison mix, social media. >> yep. >> and what people are being told and how they're being demigogged. >> most democracies have a mono ethnic conception of themselves. go back to 1960, ask someone in sweden, italy, even france, who makes a come patriot of yours, that's someone from the state ethnic stock. that's changing. but there are countries who resist that change saying i don't like this transformation,

i'm afraid i'm not going to have the same status in the future as i have in the past. you take the economic frustration and the fears about demographic transition and add to that social media with its ability to empower outside voices to make it easier to navigate. >> i know the pilgrims, et cetera, but america was built on immigration. why is it so acute, this anti-foreigner from the top there. >> the united states and canada are similar and different. you pointed out, they've always been multi-ethnic societies but, they're similar that those societies had a very strict racial hierarchy. >> there was a pecking order? even though it was multi-ethnic,

white christians were the top of the order. >> absolutely. not just white christians, even white protestants. so they have real advantaging to give up. that doesn't mean we should condone the anger but as a so believe scientists it means i'm not surprised by it. they are giving something up. they could say in the 1960s, perhaps i'm not the smartest, richest guys, but at least i'm one of the people who earn the country, i'm not a migrant, an immigrant. that gave us a status. now they're asked to give it up, it shouldn't surprise us they're fighting that. >> you also point out, whether it's putin or erdagon, you point out they're able to stay in power using elections but also being the beloved, benign

dictator. >> yes, how democracies go to die, some people are pushing the line and trying to shape people to attention but i think they're doing the opposite. >> it's not all black booted fascists. >> yes. democracy is in danger when people are walking around with the hitler steps. >> you quoted the amazing israeli novelist talking about his teaspoon and each one of us can hold a teaspoon, fill it with water and individually douse the flames. take that metaphor forward. >> it's a metaphor but the right one. there's a huge fire burning in the world and it can feel disempowering, what can i do to stop the fire? there's a ton of people watching the show if we each take our teaspoon with a drop of water, i

can promise you we're going to be able to make it go out, but there's a good chance we will. what does that mean? it means everybody doing something they can with their skills, in their local community. there's a few important things opinion first is normally when populists are up for reelection the first time, the opposition retains a decent shot at displacing them from power. once they are up for reelection the second or third time, the system is so rigged it gets harder. so make sure you fight for whatever candidate is sent up. >> so macron did a good job standing up to the populists? >> absolutely. that could have gone much worse. the second thing is politicians have to recognize the extent of the responsibility now. i think in america, the democratic party is a little

shaken out of their complacency. and a lot of european countries are thinking they can continue to go the way they have. this is the moment they can improve the standard of living, defend free trade, globalization and all of those things but also make sure people's lives are becoming better. that's a crucial thing. the other thing we have to do is fight for an multi-ethnic society. fight for a society that we all feel valued and accepted. and cross the lines rather than divide us. >> one of the things i was truck by, you know, many of us think you say -- and you talked about the difference between a populist moment and a populist era. a populist age. >> well, i think there are still hopes people have that 2016 was this year that everything went wrong, perhaps there was something in the water. we're going to move out of that

very quickly, this is not the new normal. i'm afraid it is the new normal. populist has been on the rise. it's going to stay with us for 20, 30 years. and beating it, concealing it is generational. when i was growing up, i thought that i wouldn't have to deal with those kind of potential questions, but it is also empowering because what we do politically really, really matters. and in a certain way that's a positive thing. >> i have to say i'm struck by the way people have risen up in the united states, women, black, students after the mass shootings in schools, the press. but i guess i have to ask you the final devil's advocate question, what's wrong with the populist era. >> you can see what's wrong when you look at venezuela today. look at what the economic

destruction it has brought. and look at russia and turkey where journalists are called terrorists and locked up. >> and economies are shaky in both of those countries. >> yes. . this is something by the way i'm struck by how little concern there is. look at the way in corporations paid off michael cohen, donald trump. look at the way because donald trump doesn't like cnn, "the washington post," tried to punish time warner. if you think that's good in the long run for economic growth, think again. >> that is it for our program tonight. thanks for watching "amanpour on pbs," and join us again tomorrow night. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

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