captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> nawaz: good evening, i'm amna nawaz. judy woodruff is away. on the newshour tonight, the supreme court decides in favor of a baker who refused to make a cake for a same-sex couple-- the court's major ruling explained. inen, judy sits down with turkey's foreignter mevlut cavusoglu as the u.s. and turkey discuss a roadmap for the way forward in syria. iod, an inside look into a key primary race: hoa's democratic battle for a congressional seat could be a defining moment for the party. >> a wave doesn't just happen on its own. we have a unique challenge as democrats to provide a path forward. az: all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

>> major funding forbs newshour has been provided by: >> consumer cellular believes wireless plans shou reflect the amount of talk, text and data that you use. we offer a variety of no- contract wireless plans for ytople who use their phone a little, a lot, or ng in between. to learn more, go to consumercellular.tv >> the william and flora hewlett foundation. for more than 50 years, advancing ideas and supporting institutions to promote a better world. at w .hewlett.org. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and individuals.

>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. rsd by contributions to your pbs station from vieike you. thank you. >> nawaz: a christian baker in colorado who turned away a same- sex couple should not be penalized. that was the judgment from the u.s. supreme court today, in one of the hhest-profile cases of this term. the 7-to-2 decision was a significant but narrowly tailored victory for advocates of religious freedom. the court ruled in favor of colorado baker jack phillips, who refused to design a wedding cake for a same-sex couple. advocates on both sides reacted to the news this morning: >> justice kennedy's opinion can be summed up as tolerance is a two-way street.

religious freedom is to be respected just as he's respect y rights decisions in many other contexts. >> we are saddened but we'rnot shocked about this, and really the case ia loss, but it's a narrow loss. it's a limited loss. >> nawaz: six years ago, when charlie craig and david mullins were planning their wedding, they visited phillips' cake shop. >> as soon as we sat down with the owner, he asked who the cake was for and we told him it was for us. >> so, i'm thinking how can i politely tell these guys that's an event can't participate in? i said we can make them a birthday cake, cookies, brownies, i'll sell you anything itin the shop. just an event i can't create a cake for. >> when we left the bakery we cried together, you know, it was really emotional. it was really sad. >> nawaz: last year, phillips told the newshour that designing the wedding ce would have violated his religious belief that marriage is between a manwo and n. >> all i'm trying to do is usee my art, craft to create cakes to help people celebrate special occasions in their life.

i never turn anybody away. just events that i turn away. >> nawaz: but the couple claimed the baker discriminated against them basedeir sexual orientation. use ofturned us away beca who we are and because of who we love. >> nawaz: mullins and craig brought their complaint tthe colorado civil rights commission, who sided with the couple. but today, justice anthony kennedy disagreed.om he ruled thession did not act as a neutral party, that it had been hostile to the cakemaker's religious beliefs. n the decision resolve the issue of whether a business may ever invoke religion to refuse service to gays and lesbians. we'll explore the significance of the decision following the news summary. in the day's other news, president trump argued he has an "absolute right to pardon" himself in the russia investigation. but, in a series of tweets, he then sd: "why would i do that when i have done nothing wrong?" later, white house press secretary sarah sanders was assd if the president belie that he is above the law.

>> certainly not. the president hasn't do anything wrong. ah-- >> the question wasn't it he's ne anything wrong. the question is did the framers envision a system where the president could pardself, where the president could be above the law? >> certainly the constitution lavery clearly lays out th and once again the president hasn't done anything wrong. and we feel very comfortable on that front. >> nawaz: mr. trump also tweeted the appointment of special counsel robert mueller to head the russia probe was "totally unconstitutional." he gave no reason. in guatemala, the official deat toll rose to 62, after the country's most violent volcanic eruption in more than four decades. today, rescue workers dug into several feet of ash and debris, searching for more victimstr apped by fast-moving mud and lava flows from the "volcan de fuego," or "volcano of fire." guatemala's disaster agency says more than 3200 people have beenv uated. survivors are at risk of inhaling toxic gases and ash.

the king of jordan named a new prime minister today in a bid to tamp down protests over a planned tax increase. thousands gathered in amman over the weekend to oppose the austerity measures pushed by the international moneasry fund. it whe largest uprising sincthe 2011 arab spring. today marked 29 years sincein s communist government crushed pro-democracy protests st tiananmen square in beijing. tanks assaulted thdent protesters on june 3rd and 4th of 1989, and hundreds, possbly thousandwere killed. china has never released a death toll. ofon sunday, u.s. secretar state mike pompeo called for "an full public acng of those killed, detained or missing." china rejected the demand today. >> ( translated ): china is strongly dissatisfied with this statement, and resolutely opposes it. we urge the uned states to cast aside prejudice, correct gtheir mistakes, stop mak irresponsible comments and interfering in china's internal

affairs. >> nawaz: also today, thousands of people rallied in the chinese-ruled city of hong kong, in memory of the victims at tiananmen. saudi arabia issued its first drivers licses to women today: 10, in all. it came ahead of the kingdom's lifting a formal ban on women driving, on june 24th. meanwhile, nine activists who campaigned for the right to drive remain under arrest. facebook is pushing back on a at"new york times" report t shared data with at least 60 device makers, including apple and amazon. the times said such third parties can access personal information without explicit consent. htfacebook says it keeps t control over such partnerships. the company began wind those associations after the scandal over cambridge analytica obtaining er data during the 2016 campaign. on wall street today, tech stocks helped push the broader market higher. the dojones industrial average gained 178 points to close at 24,813. the nasdaq rose 52 points, and

the s&p 500 added 12.me and, fpresident george h. w. bush was discharged todayaf r a week-long stay in a maine hospital. the 93-year-old was treated for low blood pressure and fatigue. it was the second time he's been hospalized since his wife, barbara, died in april. still to come on the newshour: the legal implications of the supreme court ruling on gay rights. one on one with turkey's foreign minister during a tensemoment in u.s./turkey relations inside the democrats' struggle to form a cohesive message before the midterm elections and much more. >> nawaz: as we reportedr, earlhe supreme court ruled in favor of a colorado baker who refused to make a cake for a gay couple. marcia coyle of "national law journal" is here to explain e decision.

we thought we were going to get a big decision today with bro implications right? the central question here was, can business owners actually discriminate? can they refuse services to yoon customerhe basis of religion? did we get that decision? >> no. in fact, it's important to know what the court did not do here. did not gave green light to business owners to discriminate on the basis of religion against members of the gay community or other protected individuals. instead, what the court did was it rt of dug deep into the record in this case, this particular case involving mr. phillips, the bake an found that, when the case went before the colorado civil rights commission on the cla discrimination claim brought against him, that one or two members of the commission mae statements that justice kennedy and the other members of the majority felt showed evidence of hostility towards region and mr. phillips' religious beliefs. and on that basis, based on

those facts, those circumstances, the court felt that it had to reverse thef rulinghe lower court in favor of the same-sex couple that brought the discrimination claim. >> nawazit was a 7-2 decion, just as ginsburg drafted the dissent. and in that, she made clear she felt it was a discrimination case. and she wrote, the fact that phillips, the cakemaker, might sell other cakes and cookies to d lesbian customers was irrelevant to the issue craig e,d mullins, the gay cou case presented. what matters is that phillips would not provide a gooder rvice to a se-sex couple that he would provide to a heterosexual couple. but to your earlier point,st e kennedy, who wrote the majority opinion here, basically said, we're going to have to take these on a case-by-case basis. he wrote, the outcome of ca like this in other sirbles must adark circumstances must await further -- must resolved with tolerance, without undue respect ga sincere religious beliefs without subjectin persons

to indignities when they seek goods and services. this was key part of justice kennedy's argument that the dignity of the person. >> it's a key part of his entirc jurisprudence he's on the supreme court. this case was sort of a tough case for him because it involved the intersection of two areas of the law where he's very strong, freedom of speech, freedom of al rights,and also e the dignity of each individual. and so he had to navigate between those two areas to finmd ing that he could at least form a majority around. and that's why this cision is narrow. it's also important that he reemphasize that there's a orneral rule that when a state has, as colo did, a public accommodations law, basically an antidiscrimination law, as long as it's a neutral law and it's plied generally to the public, business owners and others who are actors in the economy cannot use religious objections or

philosophical jections in order to deny services and goods to protectedclasses of people. >> nawaz: marcia coyle, thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. >> nawaz: over the past several years, relations betwe the u.s. and turkey have deteriorated amid deep divisions over which forces to support in syria's civil war, and the fight against isis. the u.s. backs a kurdish force there, known as the y.p.g. but turkey considers it a branch of the p.k.k., militant turkish kurds that both ankara and washington consider terrorists. right now the y.p.g. controls the city of manbij. another flashpoint: turkish plans to buy both anti-aircraft missiles from russia and the american f-35 stealth fighter jet. u.s. officials are afraid the f- 35's secret technology will be shared with the russians.

these were some of the items on the agenda wn turkish foreign minister mevlüt çavusoglu metni this m with secretary of state mike pompeo. right afterward, judy woodruff sat down with the foreign minister, and began by asking him about that sharp disagreement over america's backing of the syrian kurds. it was a big mistake that u.s. prefer to work with a terrorist organization, because u.s. admits that ypg is the offshoot of pkk in syria. turkey itself actually eliminated more than 3,000 daesh elements thrghperation euphrates shields. we could have easily done this togethers.ith our all we didn't need this terrorist organization. it has become so bigrouble for united states, and it also fected our bilateral relations very badly.

and also, it increased anti-american sentiments in turkey and elsewhere. >> woodruff: when whete ypg be gone from mam beech in months, i can say. in not in one year but in some >> woodruff: i don't know if you discussed it today but another issue between the u.s. and turkey recently has been the turkey's desire to buy the f-35 joint strike fighter jets. there's been, as you know, opposition in the congress for a number of reasons including the fact that turkey has said it wants to buy russian surface-to-air missile systems. did you discuss it withpo secretarpeii? >> yes, we discussed all these issues as well. first of all, it is not a desird it is a deal. it is an agreement. it is a mutiparty program. and we have been in that program including some joint production, production of the parts of

f-35s in turkey. so turkey ha been paying the installments on time, on due time. and turke have met all th requiremen, but you cannot cancel this deal because o s-400s that we are buying. it is totally different issue. that is the air deense system. we have had urgent needs. we had to buy air def system. in last ten years, we tried to buy from united states, which is our ally, but it didn'work. u.s. couldn't sell us but in this case, i have to protect my airspace and i had to buy from >> woodruff: but right now, the congress is saying, at this point, that the . will not sell the f-35 to turkey, that there are too many problems between the two countries.

so if turkey has to choose between working with the u.s., working with nato, or working with russia, which will it be? w do i have to choose between? i don't have to choose between two sdes oro countries. the countries like turkey in such a geopolitical situation and -- shouldn't actually ask to choose between this country or that couwentry. ave good relations with russia, but u.s. is our strategic ally. and my good relations or my cooperation with russi not an alternative. and we are member of nato. we are member of council of europe. and we have been balancing our foreign policy, but nobody have -- has the right to ask turkey to choose between any countries or any sies.

>> woodruff: does your government now consider russia as close as friendt does the united states? >> well, we have different relations, i can sa. i cannot make such apa comon. we have good relations with russia. we disagree with russia on many issues like crimeya and black sea and we ade nay allies as well. even though we are cooperating russi on syria, lke through astana pcess, which has been a very actually helpful process to consolidate the ceasefire and de-escalation zone even though there have been some violations, but we disagree with russia on certain issues like they support the rege and we don't. and u.s. is on strategic ally but u.s. supported ypgg-pkk terrorist organization which is a big let to us. >> woo the u.s. and turkey have been more strained since the coup attempt in 200 2016.

you and others in your government, including president erd wan have said western -- erd juan, is it your position today that the united states was backing the coup attempt against your president? >> we ver said that u.s. supported the atmptedup in turkey. yes, the -- there's a public opinion in turkey since this terrorist and there are many others that we requested from united stas to extradite them are still here and they have not been extradited. it's fueling the anti-american sentimendr. >> wf: mr. ghoulet? yes. and also we officially requested from the united states to extradite him. nothing happened. >> woodruff: you talked about the perceptions of the turkish people of the united stat and the west. on the other hand, the u.s. looks at turkey and sees over

100,000 arrests, thousands of people put in jail or in prison, journalists removed from their jobs and -- and the u.s. perception on the part of many in this country is that turkey is crcking down beyond what was truly thee ca the coup attempt and has -- and has basically locked up a lot of the civil servants inour country. i mentioned journalists and others. that you're moving more toward an authoritarian -- >> not at all. woodruff: with these elections coming, it will be even more so. >> we are committed to democracy. and turkish people cannot tolerate any antidemocratic policies. and it is airedgon, president erdogan and his party th have reformed turkey tremendously and this reform process has been defined in united states and in europe as silence revolution in turkey. okay? if you look at the legislations

and the reform that we made, there is no step-back. >> woodruff: do you still welcome criticism from journalists? >> what do you mean? you don't need -- d'tnou read media outlets in turkey? it's not only criticism. every day they are attacking me. they are attacking president. there are many media outlets and tv channels very, very strongly criticizing us. this is democracy. look, before we reform turkey, no journalist can criticize anybody, not journalists or anybody can attack each other. of course, if you are offended, if you think are yodeu off you can go to the judiciary. that is different. but there is freedom of seamly. freedom of expression. freedom of journalism in turkey, and we brought all these freedoms to turkey. >> woodruff: thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you.

>> nawaz: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: our politics monday team on what to expect as voters head to the polls in several key primaries; details on a new study about early stage breast cancer and chemotherapy; and an interview with british actress glenda jackson on her return to broadway. but first, a closer t the primary contest in iowa, one of eight states with elections tomorrow. for democrats, this is the latest critical test of how the party thinks it can win back thr house resentatives in november. andrew batt of iowa publicor television r on how this fight is playing out in one toss-up district. >> reporter: on an unseasonably wa spring afternoon with temp degrees, george ramsey is walking the streets of rural blairstown, iowa.

>> hi, i'm george ramsey and i'm running for united states congressional district. >> reporter: blastown is quintessential rural iowa, complete with surrounding farmland, a population hovering near 692, and a racial makeup of 98% white residents. >> democrat, huh?ea >>i am. >> reporter: ramsey, a veteran of desert storm is embarking on his first major litical campaign after a career spent in the u.s. military.i ie when think about the two main responsibilin the military: the accomplishment of our mission and the welfare of our soldiers, i think about serving in congress no different tht. >> reporter: but ramsey faces an uphill battle in a primary on the political front lines of rural trump country. iowa's 1st congressional district voted for president barack obama by nearly 14 d rcentage points in 2012. but in 2016, donump won the district by nearly four

points. the political winds of 2018 have sparked a fierce democratic primary in this sprawling northeast corner of iowa where four democrats are vying for their pnoarty's junnation, and define the soul of the party. >> and i'm married. my wife and i met how all lesbians meet their wives. at church. >> reporter: in the midsized eastern io city of waterloo, aeronautics engineer turned politician courtney rowe is eeting primary voting democrats with an openness to her l.g.b.t. background and a central theme of health care. >> evewhere i go people are talking about healthcare. i'm the only candidate in the primary who is supporting single payer and medicare for all. >> reporter: as rowe stakes out claim for the more liber wing of iowa democrats, another 1st district candidate is drilling down on rural economic issues key to some trump voters

in 2016. >> what i'veeard from people is they wanted change. they were frustrated with the status quo. and that's what we're still seeing. we need real change. we need to change thonomy to benefit everybody and not just people at the top. >> reporter: in the rural farming town of strawberry point, thomas heckroth is tching a different path forward for primary voters on trade and agricultural issues. >> make sure we have a farm bill that supports working families. that means making sure we haveam snap prothat are great benefits to local farmers. >> reporter: a former staffer to iowa democratic senator tom harkin, heckroth cautions against democratic party overconfidence in 2018. >> a wave doesn't just happen on it's own. democrats have a unique challenge to make sure we are providing a path forward. >> reporter: that path forward he primary day may rest in hands of 29-year-old abby finkenauer, a state representative with strong financial donor advantages,

national endorsements from the democratic congressional campaign committee, and a television ad blitz. >> this is my dad's shop. these burn hes are from the sparks of his welding torch. that's eastern iowa tough. all the candidates that have run here we're all very different. me in particular growing up in rural iowa or as i like to call it: the country. >> reporter: finkeneaur wears dubuque blue collar roots er sleeve, a telegraphed nod to potential general election appeal for trump democrats and independents. she often excludes the president from her stump speech. >> i got to be honest, i barely mention him. i don't really have to because we talk about the stuff that i'm going to do and how much work we have to do. >> reporter: in order to reach washington, finkenaeur or one of her three primary opponents will have to navigate june 5th andra rutrump country voters that await democrats on the campaign trail this fall. for the pbs newshour, i'm andrew batt in strawberry fields, iowa.

>> brangham: in addition to iowa, seven other states are holding primaries tomorrow. amy walter of the "cook political report, and susan page, of usa today are with me now. amy, first with you, we saw in this piece in iowa severalat different demo trying on different shades of blue, a little more liberal, a little more conservive. has the democratic party cohered around a unified message? or is it just state by state, race by race? >> yeah, i think a midterm election is not aout thearty having an identity. that is really about -- that's e presidential election, and we're literally the party is exemplified who their nominee is. in midterm elections, each reac has its own kind of candidate who represents -- is supposed to represent that specific district. i think whate're seeing are a couple things in the primaries that we've gone through thus far. about aember, we're onl third of the way through. june really does start us into most of our -- the primaries

through the rest of the summer. but we've seen one really big issue for democrats. it's not really ideological. it's about gender. and it's about women. and my colleue david wasserman crunched the numbers in these first few primary states and what he fod for deocratic women candidates, when we have a primary between a democratic l woman and ast one other man in a democratic primary, not an incumbent, women were winning 69% of the time. there were fewer republicann wonning and they're winning at a much lower rate, at about 20%. so it'less about ideology than it is about gender. >> so, susan, what do you see a the most sort of unifying ideaor to the domes? >> well, the most unifying iea for the dems is opposition to president traump. that is an isue onhich every democrat running agrees. although democrats i some districts are not necessarily talking about that because they need to appeal to some people rwho voted fo president trump last time around but either

aren't happy with him or have some othero cerns when it comes to trade or health-care or a makes them a possible democrat to appeal to. but trump is the unifying factor both sides. republicans unify behind trump in his favor and democrats unify in his opposition. >> and that unification against trump also helps democrats in that the party isn't really divided. i know we saw in this iowa caate here is an ideology spectrum, but when it really comes down tot, democrats' number one concern, i hear this from voters and i hear it from candidates, is simply to be thep the lican in november to come to washington to be thatr check on pesident trump. >> and in some ways, i guess, the president can -- as far as democrats are oncerned, you can sort of make an assumption that the voters on our side on theey blue side, te going to have opposition to the president. you don't necessarily have to be the that drum over and over. >> right. but let's talk a little bit about the gop. because it seems that even though there seem to bey initiasense that some canadadays would try to distance themselves from the president as

time has gone on what the president's message is becomesth gop's message. i mean you see this in so many ways. do you think that candidates across the country are running with the president? >> the president has made it easier by having a greaton y, by having a 3.8% unemployment rate released last friday, but having at least the prospect of some progress toward solving or at least beginning to address the siuation with north korea and its nuclear program. those are things that have made republican kaddays more comfortable signing on to the presidency. and even though if you want make a republican quiet, ask him about things like, does the president have the power to pardon himself? >> right. on that, republicans are less enthusstic about speaking up >> and when you look at the add ads that republicans are running, they're attaching themselves to the pren dent not justhe economy but on at love these issues that reany resonateepublican primaries but probably don't with independent and democratic voters which is immin, whether they're talking about building the wall or doing more

to stop illegal immigration, they are -- they're really close to the president's languag l there's of the talk about ms-13, things like this. that to me is rea interesting, because i'm curious to see how many of these candidates are going to talatk about nce we get to november -- >> right. -- versus democrats which almost all of them are talking about healthcare. they're lking about health-care more than they're talkintalking about trump. i assume that message is going to continue to go through the general electias. >>y, and this is probably something the democrats would never in a million years want to talk about but it's bill clinton. he's on a book tour right now trying to sell this new thriller has written with james p he was asked today on mbs in light ofhe -- msnbc in light of the me toz movement. >> look back -- looking back on what happened, through the lens of #metoo do you feel more

responsibility? >> no, i felt terrible then, and i came to grips wih it. >> did you ever apologize? yes, and nobody believes that i got out of that for free. i left the white house $16 million in debt. but you typically have ignored gaping facts in describing this and i bet you don't even know th wem. th litigated 30 years ago. >> susan what do you madef that? >> he said 20 years to think about his answer on mon aa lewins it is permexing to me how a politician with as many doills as bill clinton has not have a short fwective response to this perfectlyn appropriate obvious question to ask, which would be something along the lines of, i'm veryy sor what i did. i apologize. let's move on.re that would be effective

than the convoluted kind of response that he gave to craig melvin there on nbc thmois ing. and it is a kind of thing that makes democrats feel at bill clinton is not an asset that ctionsan use in many ele you can think a former president, served two terms, might be somebody y'd see out on the campaign trail. you really don't. >> it's interesti he seemed to be indicating -- and this is something we've actually heard from president trump as well, that votlos ed at this. they knew what they were getting, and they still sided with me. >> right. so then i wo. right? it was really -- >> and that that's the only measure. >> right. that the "me too movement is really about me. and really what it hould be about is what the -- how women have been dealt with by society, how men have treated women and, in this very specific case, here he had the opportunity and i thinsusan said iterfectly, he had the opportunity to really address just one on one, d a little bit of introspection, a

little bit of soul searching to say, gosh, you knw, now looking at it, not just 20 years in the past, but through thens of the #metoo move the, seeing a h all ths occurred this year, i really understand it in a different way. and his inability to do tht really speaks to everything that susan said about not only why it'sifficult for democrats to want to put him on the campaign trail, but the challenge for taking this movement and bringing it into u know, for it to become a bigger and more lasting moment, because it still needs to penetrate in a way that everybody gets it at the same level. >> right. it's not there yet. right. i mean, intlyerestihe's citing again these public opinion polls and i think on some level, he was right that a majority of the count looke at the impeachment that wasgh bragainst him as a partisan effort, but he seems complete unwilling to grapple with the under sling behavior that got him in trouble in the first place.

>> it's true. his ip impeachment was an act of the republicans and they made for it in the elections. but there's been a cultural shift just in the lat year, just very rehe sently that looks at questions of powetween -- in some of these -- in some oftu these sions and has caused a change for a lot of americans. i think a lotof americans look at this and are more likely to be women in these cases and more lio say men in power cannot abuse theirpower in cases that involve sexual harassment or sexual misconduct. and there was no acknowledgment of that in this exhange. >> democrats have made a tremendous shift. right? you have decrats coming out and saying, the president should have resigned. right? knowing what we know now you have the democratic establishment -- in fact, this is something else at's sort of fascinating. the clinton error wasn't that -- era wasn't that long ago but thinking about his policy achievements, whether it wasfo welfare , the crime bill,

nafta, those are being pushed aside by democrats saying that he was too moderate. and now on this issue where a lot of democrats didn't defend him personally but certainly defended the fct that that impeachment was not reasonable now are also saying he take a look and we as a party should take a look a how monica lewinsky the person was treated. >> amy walter, susan page, tha you very much. >> thank pun >> nawaz: new findings show women with early stage breast cancer can avoid chemotherapy. the question of whether to be treated with chemotherapy is a key question women face after surgery and hormone treatment. researchers now say most women with smaller tumors can safely skip chemo, and avoid its side effects suchs fatigue and nausea. the findings may change clinical practice for as many 70,000th women a year iu.s.

dr. larry norton is a leading breast-cancer speciand senior vice president of memorial sloan kettering cancepa center, whicicipated in the study. thank you for your time. can you just tell us, big picture, off the bat now, why is this such an iportant breakthrough? >> well, now we know that we cae identify ps who have a very good prognosis and don't need chemotherapy. so these patients will be spared chemotherapy. that's a wonderful, wonderful result. >> and you're able to know this now because of gene test. you can kind of assess people's brisks and you're talkingut women with what you call intermediate risk. explain to me what that mens. >> yeah, well, we do this test of 21 genes. it's called the dx test. and it tells us a scale from 0 to 100 which relates to the risk of the cancer spreading to another part of the body, very low scores, up t 10, it's a very low chance that these patients get hormone therapy and chemotherapy doesn't help them.e

e known that for a long time. high scores are at increased dirisk of the cancer spr and those patients have benefited a lot from chemotherapy and we've known that also. but the intermediate patients with scores of 11 to 25, we've not known what's best for them. should we give them? chemothera should we not give them chemotherapy? what is the best option for these individuals? we haven't had guidance. now we do. yhere's very large, ver important study is telling us that people with those intermediate scores have a very gooding pronosis and thating pronessis is not improved by chemotherapy. so they don't have to receive chemotherapy. and that's just a wonderful uhing to look somebody in the eye and say, yo've got a great prognosis. your odds of being cured are specific and you don't needot chrapy. you've got a great prognosis. the chemotherapy won't help. it's a wonderful thing to be able to look sobody in the eye and give them that information. >> dr. norton, help me understand, for l the women who have been following standard practice up until now and were receiving chemotherapy, whou now say wouldn't have needed it, was there a risk associated with ing overtreated? >> well, i mean, it depends on

the chemotherapy they received. with so chemotherapies, there is a slightly increased risk of some bad effects. with other chemotherapies, such as the one we've beeusing at memorial sloan-kettering which is the cmf creombination, the no evidence of long-term toxicity. so there's some variation in that regard. burisks are very small. the long-term risks are very small. ken the people that i've spo to who, in this trial, randomized to get chem are feeling good about these results because they had the chemotherapy. they're disease free. it hasn't hurt them. but they've helped thousands ano thousands her women, maybe 100,000 women per year, in the united states alone, are goingto enefit from these results. and people are very altruistic. they're real heroes. and they've made a massiveti contri to helping people with cancer throughout the world. >> dr. larry nrton. thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> nawaz: now, the return of onf

of the greatheater and film, after many years she spent in politics. two years agpo glenda made a rful acting comeback and now she's back on broadway with a third act to her remarkable career. as jeffrey brown reports, she is also a strong favorite forte tony award this week. >> rumble thy bellyfull. >> brown: it was quite a returny after rs away from the theater, glenda jackson took to the stage of london's old vic in 2016 in shakpeare's "king lear," as lear! >> well, that's one of the endearing things about the theater.o i can put it ikind of immediate context. you work with people, you may not see them for deca bs and then yp into them in the street and it's as though you've just walked out to the same coffee bar. you know, there's no time gap. >> brown: now 82, jackson is

back on broadway for the first time since 1988, starring with urie metcalf and alison pill in edward albee's "three talln. wom" it's a play about memory and aging that appealed to jackson because of its strong female roles, something she says is a rarity. we talked recently at the famed sardi's restaurant in times square. >> it has been my experience, ever since i first walkd onto a stage and got paid for it, that contemporary dramatists find women really, really boring. we are never, or hardly ever, the sort of dramatic engine of what they are writing. >> brown: why do you think that's been the case? >> you're a man, you tell me. why do men, who are in the main still the majority of contemporary drama find us so boring? iey just don't seem to think that being a womeither interesting or dramatic or challenging or dangerous. or any of the things that any woman in the world knows our lives can and not infrequently

are. >> brown: has this been a problem for you, in your career and finding roles? >> well of course it's been a em.bl and it's a problem that doesn't seem to have changed. that is bemusing to me because it hasn't shifted in all the years i was in the theater, and now i am back in it. >> brown: it's hard to imagine anyone finding glenda jackson boring. beginninnin the 1960s jack was a prominent presence on stage and screen on both sid of the atlantic. >> i could never love you. brown: she reached wide in the 1969 film, "women in love," for which she won her first academy awarfor best actrs. her performances, often playingo , dynamic women, continued to win acclaim and awards, including: two emmys for the 1971 bbc series, "elizabeth r," which aired on public television's masterpiece theater. she won a second oscarthe

1973 film "a touch of class." but in 1988, jackson, a lof time critice government of conservative british prime minister margaret thatcher, left icting for what uld become a decades-long pol career as a labor party member of the british parliament. >> brown: when you left acting ewas it because you had d enough or had enough? >> good heavens, no! my country was being destroyed! anything i could do that was legal to get margaret thatcher out, and her government out, i was prepared to have a go at.an because everything i had been taught to regard as vices, she told me were virtues. g greed wasned, it was

doughty independence. selfishness wasnit selfishness, as taking care of your immediate responsibilities. to feel: did you co that you accomplished something meaningful as a politici? >> not as an individual. because the idea that you have individual power in that sense is actually not true. you have clear responsibilities towards your own constituents and your own constituency. that was for me the mo interesting part of it. but yes we d make changes but then of course along came the iraq war and it all psh-kaboom, like that, so far as i was concerned. >> brown: one issue she championed: women's rights in the home and workplace. i asked if she was surprised by the force of the #metoo movement now. >> what surprises me is that people are surprised. i mean in my cntry for example two women die every week at the hands of their partner, not infrequently male, usually invariably male, every week.

now that's not on the front pages of newspapers every week.u so thien almost cataclysm of surprise, shock, horror, how could this have happened. i don't buy it. people are deluding thes.mseli an we fail to acknowledge it, we fail to really work to eradicate it and th it takes more than just being shocked to eradicate it. >> brown: so for you plly, do you have any regrets about having taken the time away from acting? i >> nean it is an inordinate privilege to be a member of parliament. i mean people give you their trust and they also give you what i regard as their most valuable right in this sense, their vote. and that is a very humbling and privileged experience to hav

>> brown: so now that you're ck do you plan to contin acting? >> well i would hope to. yeah i mean you know, yes. it's one of the things that have been and is at the moment ry central and essential in my life. to say here it is, yes, if the work is that exciting and riunting, because i've been privileged to exce this past couple of years. >> brown: "three tall women" runs through june 24th for the pbs newshour, i'mom jeffrey brown roadway in new york. >> nawaz: and we'll be back shortly with a view on whether science and religion can coexist. but first, take a moment to hear your local pbs station. it's a chance to offer your support, which helps keepms progra like ours on the air. >> nawaz: for those stations staying with us, we take nd

seook at a campaign to eradicate the polio virus, which remains endemic in parts of just three countries, nigeria,af anistan and pakistan. in partnership with the associated press, special correspondent fred de sam lazaro bring us this rert, which originally aired last r:ll. >> reporalman ahmad is one of pakistan's most recognizable public figures, a rock musician whose group, junoon, has sold millions of albums and filled large stadiumstn recen decades. today, ahmad has become known as the bono of pakistan. his cause? raising public awareness for t country's campaign to eradicate polio, which he reminded these students, is very close to its goal. >> do this! >> reporter: ahmad appears in tv spots and restricts his public

appearances to small groups, illustrating a key challenge for the polio campaign. >> we used to do concerts here where 100,000 people could come in these stadiums, like the national stadium in karachi. now everything has gonero undergd. we can't go and do public concerts, just because of the threat of violence and the extremist threat. >> reporter: that threatins the maeason pakistan is one of only three countries in the world where the crippling viral diseasremains endemic. the violence has specifically targeted polio campaigs. avral dozen vaccinators nd security personnele been killed by talibagunmen. >> when i arrived here, there was a t of confusion, a lot of chaos, because of the talin spreading this disinformation that there's sometng in the polio vaccine that is un-islamic >> reporter: not helping the cause, the c.i.a. conducted a fake vaccination campaign in the area where it suspected osama

bin laden was hiding, trying to collect d.n.a. matches from family members. that severely damaged public trust. despite all the challenges, pakist has seen an impressive drop in new cases, from more than 300 cases in 2014 to just five in 2017. >> we hope we are really at an advaed stage of the polio en game. on reporter: dr. zulfiqar bhutta is a leading exper the country's polio campaign. he says there's been a concerted effort to plug the gaps, led by rotary international and a number of partners, including pakistan's religious leaders and army. >> pakistan, thrgh a very particularly in the insecure areas of the country, has made tremendous inroads. >> reporter: violence an extremism have made many parts of pakistan inaccessible to the polio campaign, so vaccinators have fanned out to places where people are coming and going to these regions.

looking for small children in places like karachi's main railway statn. >> the real hero is the polio health workerswho are in the frontlin going and vaccinating children. >> reporter: they are campaignte vens, like saeeda banu. she and her colleagues look out for young children, coaxing the ops of oral vaccine into sometimes reluctant customers. for banu, the job is personal. >> ( translated ): i had two sons both developed polio, but the older one died. this happened to my children, and so i want to make sure it doesn't happen to other children. >> reporter: she worries about her surviving son, abdul wajid, who is 16 and severely disabled. >> ( translated ): he was completely normal at birth, then started to show some symptoms at eight months. his feet got twisted, he stopped playing. we've taken him for some operations and that's helped him to sit upright. before, he couldn't even do

that.ep >>ter: her husband is on a small pension, and with her own meager salary, this like physical therapy or a wheelchair for abdul wajid are beyond reach.e many peoplve in far worse poverty. and they are the prime target of e polio campaign's foot soldiers, most of them women. the vaccinators are trained icipate resistance from parents >> where is the vaccine medicine made? >> in indonesia. >> and indonesia i >> a muslim country. >> reporter: accompani by a policeman, the vaccinators, many from the same neighborhoods in which they work, go door todo or. security is only one concern e at can hinder their progress. conditions on thound are often ripe for polio: waste ofki nds, and flooding when it rains, a tests this year detected the prevalence of the polio viruin this karachi slum. only a small proportion of people exposed to the polio

virudevelop the disease, and small children are most vulnerable. the workers try to get asmany as they can, marking the but families here are mostly transient, moving and briefly for daily labor jobs to survive. their mobility increases the likelihood their children won't get the oral vaccine, or at least a full course-- ideally, at least three doses. another challenge is that polio is simply not a priority for many parents, says dr bhutia. >> i tnhink to an average per in a rural village who's lost his child due to diarrhea or lost his daughter-in-law dueo hemorrhage during childbirth, there is more to life and misery and health than polio. to place polio in the context of everything else. >> reporter: new infections are at an all-me low, but the virus is sllan iopreatts biggest fear is a combinof complacency and exhaustion, especially in certain regions.

ev with polio, you can' efford to have one or two cases. we have got to g this down to >> reporter: as long as there's a single case, he says, polio remains a global threat, not just a localized o. so the campaign, with salman ahmad and other celebrities, continues and hopes to keep polio front and center in public consciousness, in pursuit of the big zero. for the pbs newshour, this is fred de sam lazaro in karachi. >> nawaz: one conflict in the going culture wars seems tot suggat science and religion cannot coexist peacefully. if you are a true believer of

uialan lightman is a distied physicist and a novelist, who teaches at m.i.t. tonight he shares his humble opinion, on how to make space for both facts and sality. governed by a small number of laws and that everything in the world eventually disintegrates and passes away. and then one summer night, i was out in the ocean in a small boat. it was a dark, clear night, and the skvibrated with stars. i laid down in the boat and looked up. after a few minutes, i found mynglf falnto infinity. elf, andll track of mys the vast expansive time extending from the far distant past to the far distant future seemed compressed to a dot. i felt connected to something eternal and etheirial, something

beyond the material world. in recent years, some scientists have attempted to use scientific arguments to question the exicestf god. i think these people are missing the point. god is conceived by most religions lis outside time and space. you can't use scientifi arguments to either disprove or prove god. and for the same reason, you can't use scientific argumts to analyze or understand the feeling i had that summer night when i lay down in the boat and looked up and felt part of something far larger than myself. i'm still a scientist. i still believe that the world is made of atms and molecules and nothing more. but i also believe in the power and validity of the spiritume experience. is it possible to be committed to both without feeling a contradiction? i think so. we underd that everything in

the physical world is material faded to -- fated pass awy. yet we also long for the permanent, some grand and eternal unity where idealists d we're realists. we're dreamers and we're builders. experience and we do experiments. we long for rtainties, and yet we ourselves are full of the ambiguities of the mona lisa and the iching. we ourselves are part of the yin yang of the world. >> nawaz: and that's the newshour for tonight.m na nawaz. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by:

>> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. cupporting science, technology, and improved econo performance and financial literacy in the 21st century. >> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peacef world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was thde possible bcorporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org gwendolyn: this week on history detectives,

how did this fragment of fm sparrea moviemaking lution? you're a gentleman of brains, but you don't use them. wes: what role dide unusual drawings of giant gold nuggets play in one of the largest mass migrations in american history? so these are indescribably rare. kufu: and how did this twisted fragment of metal spark a communications revolution? it was the moon shot of the mid-19th century. elvis costello: ♪ watchin' the detectives ♪ i get so angry whenhe teardrops start ♪ ♪ but he can't be wounded 'cause he's got no heart ♪ ♪ watchin' the detectives ♪ it's just like watchin' the detectives ♪