captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc od >> nawaz: vening, i'm amna nawaz. judy woodruff is away. on the newshour tonight, the supreme court decides in favorof baker who refused to make a cake for a same-sex couple-- the court's major ruling explained. then, judy sits down with turkey's foreign minister mevlut cavusoglu as the u.s. and turkey discuss a roadmap for the way forward in syria. and, an inside look into a key primary race: how iowa'sat democratice for a congressional seat could be a defining moment for the party. >> a wave doesn't just happen on its own. we have a unique challenge as democrats to provide a path forward. e >> nawaz: all that and m tonight's pbs newshour. or

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>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> nawaz: a christian bakner colorado who turned away a same- sex couple should not be penalized. that was the judgment from the u.s. supreme court today, in one offhe highest-profile cases this term. the 7-to-2 decision was a significant but narrowly tailored victory for advoces of religious freedom. the court ruled in favor of colorado baker jack phillips, who refused to design a wedding cake for a same-sex couple. advocates on both sides reacted tohe news this morning: >> justice kennedy's opinion can be summed up as tolerance is a two-way street.

religious freedom is to be respected just as he's respect gay rights decisions in many other contexts. >> we are saddened but we're not shocked about this, and really the case is a loss, but it's a narrow loss. it's a limited loss. >> nawaz: six years ago, when charlie craig and david mullins were planning their wedding, they visited phillips' cake shop. >> as soon as we sat down with the owner, he asked who the cake was for and we told him it was for us. >> so, i'm thinking how can i politely tell these guys that's i event i can't participa i said we can make them a birthday cake, cookies, brownies, i'll sell you anything it's just an event i can't create a cake for. >> when we left the bakery we cried together, you know, it was really emotional. it was really sad. >> nawaz: last year, phiips told the newshour that designing the wedding cake would have violated his religious beliefwe that marriage en a man d a woman. >> all i'm trying to do is use a , use my craft to create cakes to help people celebrate special occasions in their life.

i never turn anybody away. just events that i turn away. >> nawaz: but the couple claimed the baker discriminated againstb thed on their sexual orientation. >> he turned us away because who we are and because of who we love. >> nawaz: mullins and craig brought their comaint to the colorado civil rights commission, who sided with the couple. but today, justice anthony kennedy disagreed.ed he rhe commission did not act as a neutral party, that it had been hostile to the cakemaker's religious beliefs.si the deci did not resolve the issue of whether a business may ever invoke religion to refusese ice to gays and lesbians. we'll explore the significance d of tision following the news summary. in the day's otht news, presidump argued he has an "absolute right to pardon" himself in theigussia investion. but, in a series of tweets, he dothen said: "why would i hat when i have done nothing wrong?" later, white house press secretary sarah sanders was asked if the president believes that his above the law.

>> certainly not. the president hasn't done anything wrong. ah-- >> the question wasn't it he's done anything wrong. the question is did the framers envisi a system where the president could pardon himself, where the president could be above the law? >> certainly the constitutions very clearly lt the law and once again the president hasn't done anything wrong. and we feel very comfortable on that front. >> nawaz: mr. trump also tweeted the appointment of special counsel robert mueller to ad the russia probe was "totally unconstitutional." he gave no reason. in guatemala, the official death toll rose to 62, after the country's most violent volcanic eruption in more than four decades. today, rescue workers dug ito several feet of ash and debris, searching for more victims trapped by fast-moving mud and lava flows from the "volcan de fuego," or "volcano of fire." guatemala's disaster agency says more than 3200 people have been evacuated.at survivors are isk of inhaling toxic gases and ash.

the king of jordan named a newim minister today in a bid to tamp down protests over a planned tax increase. thousands gathered in amman over the weekend to oppose the austerity measures pushed by the internatiol monetary fund. it was the largest uprising since the 2011 arab sp. today marked 29 years since china's communist government d pro-democracy protests at tiananmen square in beijing. tanks assaulted the student protesters on june 3rd and 4th of 1989, and hundrths, possibly sands, were killed. china has never released a death etll. on sunday, u.s. sey of state mike pompeo called forc a full pubcounting of those killed, detained or missing." china rejected the demand today. >> ( translated ): china is strongly dissatisfied with this statement, and resolutely opposes it. we urge the united states to cast aside prejudice, correct their mistakes, stop making irresponsible comments and interfering in china's internal

affairs. >> nawaz: also today, thousands of people rallied in the chinese-ruled city of hong kong, in memory of the victims at tiananmen. saudi arabia issued its first drivers licenses to women today 10, in all. it came ahead of the kingdom's lifting a formal ban on women driving, on june 24th. iganwhile, nine activists who campaigned for the to drive remain under arrest. facebook is pushing back on a "new york times" report that it shared data with at least 60ak devices, including apple and amazon. the times said such third parties can access persoal information without explicit psnsent. facebook says it kight control over such partnerships. the company began winding down those associations after theda scover cambridge analytica obtaining user data during then. 2016 campa on wall street today, techpu stocks helped the broader market higher. the dow jones industrial average gained 178 points to close at 24,813. the nasdaq rose 52 points, and

the s&p 500 added 12. and, former president george h. w. bush was discharged today after a week-long stay in a maine hospital.r- the 93-yd was treated for low blood pressure and fatigue. it was the second time he's been hospitalized since his wife, barbara, died in april. still to come on the newshour: the legal implications of the supreme urt ruling on gay rights. one on one with turkey's foreign minister during a nse moment in u.s./turkey relations inside the democrats' struggle to form a cohesive message before the midterm elections and much more. >> nawaz: as we reportedea ier, the supreme court ruled in favor of a colorado baker who refused to make a cake for a ga. coup marcia coyle of "national law journal" is here to explain the decision.

we thought we were going to get a big decision today with broad implications. right? the central question here was, can businey owners actua discriminate? can they refuse services to you customers on the basis of religio did we get that decision? >> no. in fact, it's important to know what the court did not do h it did not gave green light to business owners to discrimina on the basis of religion against members of the gay community or other protected individuals. instead, what the court did was it sort of dug deep into the record in this case, this particular casev inolving mr. phillips, the baker, and found that, when the case went before the colorado civil rights commission on the claim discrimination claim brought against him, that one or two members of the commission made statements that justice kennedy and the other members of the majority felt showed evidence of hostility towards religion and mr. phfslips' religious bel and on that basis, based on

those facts, those rcumstances, the court felt that it had to reverse theli of the lower court in favor of the same-sex couplehe that brought t discrimination claim. >> nawaz: it was a 7-2 decision, just as ginsburg drafted t dissent. and in that, she made clear she felt it was a discrimination case. and she wrote, the fact that, phillie cakemaker, might sell other cakes and cookies to gay and lesbian customers was irlevant to the issue crig and mullins, the gay couple, case presented. what matterss that phillips would not provide a gooder service to a same-sex couple that he would prode to a heterosexual couple. but to your earlier point, justice kennedy, who wrote the majority opinion here, basical said, we're going to have to take these on a case-by-case basis. he wrote, the outcome of cases like this in other sirbles must adark circumstances must await further -- must be resolved with tolerance, without undue respect to sincere religious beliefs without subjecting gay persons

to indignities whn they seek goods and services. this was key part of justi kennedy's argument that the dignity of the person. >> it's a key part of his entire jurisprudence since he's on the supreme court. this caswas sort of tough case for him because it involved the intersection of two areas of the law where hes very strong, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, antsd also equal ri the dignity of each individual. and so he had to nav between those two areas to find something that he could at least form a maj around. and that's why this decision isa ow. it's also important that he reemphasize that therel a genele that when a state has, as colorado did, a public accommodations law, basicly an antidiscrimination law, as long to it's a neutral law and it's applied generallhe public, business owners and others who are actors in the economy cannot use religious objections or

philosophical objections in order to deny servic and goods to protected classes of people. >> nawaz: marcia coyle, thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. >> nawaz: over the past several years, relations between the u.s. and turkey have deteriored amid deep divisions over which forces to support in' sycivil war, and the fight against isis.ks the u.s. b kurdish force there, known as the y.p.g. but turkey considers it a branch of the p.k.k., militant turkish kurds that both ankara and washington consider terrorists. right now thy.p.g. controls e city of manbij. another flashpoint: turkish pls to buy both anti-aircraft missiles from russia and the american f-35 stealth fighter jet. u.s. officials are afraid the fe 35's stechnology will be shared with the russians.

these were some of the items on the enda when turkish foreig minister mevlüt çavusoglu metth morning with secretary of state mike pompeo. right afterward, judy woodruff sat down with the foreign minister, and began by asking him about that sharp disagreement over america's backing of the syrian kurds. it was a big mistake that u.s. prefer to work with a terrorist organization, because u.s. admits that ypg is the offshoot of pkk in syria. turkey itself actually eliminated more than 3,000 daesh elements through operation euphrates shields. we could have easily done this together with our allies. we didn't need this terrorist organization it has become also big troublete for united s and it also affected our bilateral relations

very badly. and also, it increased anti-american sntiments in turkey and elsewhere. >> woodruff: when whether the ypg be gone from mam beech? >> in months, i can say. in not in one year but in somnt . >> woodruff: i don't know if you discussed it today but another issue between the u.s. and turkey recently has been the turkey's desire to buy the f-35 u int strike fighter jets. there's been, as yow, opposition in the congress for a mber of reasons including the fact that turkey has said it wants to buy rusan surface-to-air missile systems. did you discuss it with secretary pompeii? >> yes, we discussed all thsue as well. desire. all, it is not a desirs it is a deal. it is an agreement. it is a multiparty program. d we have been in that program including some joint production, production of the parts ofu

f-35s inrkey. so turkey has been paying the installments on time, on due time. andurkey have met alle requements, but you cannot cancel this deal because of s-400s that we are buying. it is totally dfferent issue. that is the air defense system.h e had urgent needs. we had to buy r defense system. in last ten years, we tried to buy from united states, which is our ally, but it didn't work. u.s. couldn'tin sell us bu this case, i have to protect my airspace and i had b touy from somebody. >> woodruff: but right now, the ngress is saying, at this point, that the u.s. will not sell the f-35 to turkey, that there are too many problems between the two countries.

oosef turkey has to c between working with the u.s., working with nato, or workingth russia, which will it be? >> why do i have to choos i don't have to choose between two sides or two countriesco thntries like turkey in such aop gitical situation and -- shouldn't actually as to choose between this country or that cou we have good relations with russia, but u.s. is our strategic ally. anmy good reations or my cooperation with russia is nott an anative. and we are member of nato. we areember of council of europe. and we hve been balancing our foreign policy, but nobody have -- has the right to ask turkey to choose between any countries or any sides.

>> woodruff: does your governnt now consider russia as close a friend as it does the united states? >> well, we have different relations, i can say. i cannot make such a comparion. we have goorelations with russia. we disagree with russia on many issues like crimeya and black sea and we are nady allies as eell. even though we a cooperating russia on syria, like through astana process, which has been a very actlually hepful process to consolidate the ceasefire and de-escalation zone even though there have been some violations, but we disagree with russia on certain issues like they support thregime and we don't. and u.s. is on strategic ally but u.s. supported ypgg-pkk terroris a big let to us.ch is >> woodruff: relations between the u.s. and turkey have been more strained since the up attempt in 200 2016.

you and others in your luvernment, incng president erd wan have said western -- erd juan, is it your position today that the united states was backing the coup attempt against your president? >> we never said that u.s. supported the attempted coup in yes, the -- there's a public opinion in turkey since this terrorist and there areany others that we requested from unitedtates to extradite them are still here and they have not been extradited. it's fueling thn ati-american sentiments. >> woodruff: mr. ghoulet? yes. and also we offreicialluested from the united states to extradite him. nothing happened. >> woodruff: you talked about the perceptions of the turkish people of the unitestates an the west. on the other hand, the u.s. looks at turkey and sees over

100,000 arrests, thousands of people put in jail or in prison, journalists removed from their jobs and -- and the u.s. perception on the part of many in this country ishat turkey is cracking down beyond what was truly the cause of the coup attempt and has -- and has basically locked up a lot of the civil servts in your contry. i mentioned journalists and others. that you're moving more toward an authoritarian -- >> not at all. woodruff: with these elections coming, it will be even more so. >> we are committed to democracy. and turkish people cannot tolerate any antidemocratic policies. and it is airedgon, president erdogan and his pty that have reformed turkey tremendously and this reform process has been defined in united states and in europe as silence revolution in turkey. okay? if you look athe legislations

and the reform that we made, n there step-back. >> woodruff: do you still welcome criticism from journalists? >> what do you mean? you don't ned -- don't you read media outlets in turkey? it's not onlm.y critic every day they are attacking me. they are attacking president. there are many media outlets and tv channels very, very strongly criticizing us. this is democcy. look, before we reform turkey, no journalist can criticize anybody, not journalists or anybody can attack each oth. of course, if you are offended, if you think aryou offended, you can go to the judiciary. that is different. but there is freedom of seamly. freedom of expression. freedom of journalism in turkey, and we brought all these freedoms to turkey. >> woodruff: thank you very much for talking with us. >> thank you.

>> nawaz: stay with us, coming up on the newshour: our politics monday team on what to expect as voters head to the polls in several key primaries; details on a new study about early stage breast cancer and chemotherapy; and an interview with british actress glenda jackson on her return to broadway. but first, a closer look at the primary contest in iowa, o oef eight states with elections tomorrow. for democrats, this is the latest critical test of how the party thinks it can win back ths of representatives in november. andrew batt of iowa publicon televieports on how this fight is playing out in one toss-up district. >> reporter: on an unssonably warm spring afternoon with temperatures cresting at 99 degrees, george rngsey is walki the streets of rural blairstowniowa.

>> hi, i'm george ramsey and i'm 1nning for united states congress here in t congressional district. >> reporr: blairstown is quintessential rural iowa, complete with surrounding farmland, a population hovering near 692, and a racial meup of 98% white residents. >> democrat, huh? yeah i am. >> reporter: ramsey, a veteran of desert storm is embarking on his first jor political campaign after a career spent in the u.s. military. >> when i think about the two main responsibilities in the military: the accomplishment of our mission and the welfare of our soldiers, i think about serving in congress no different than that. >> reporter: but ramsey faces an uphill battle in a primary on the political front lines of rural trump country. iowa's 1st congressional district voted for president barack obama by nearly 14 percentage points in 2012. but in 2016, donald trump won the district by nearly four

points. e political winds of 2018 have raarked a fierce democratic primary in this ing northeast corner of iowa where four democrats are vying fr their party's june nomination, and define the soul of the party. >> and i'm married. my wife and i met how all lesbians meet their wives. at church. >> reporter: in the midsized eastern iowa city of waterloo, aeronautics engineer turned politician courtney rowe is greeting primary voting democrats with an openness to her l.g.b.t. background and a central theme of healtcare. >> everywhere i go people are talking about healthcare. i'm the only candidate in the primary who is supporting sine payer and medicare for all. >> reporter: as rowe stakes out a claim for the more liberal wir of iowa democrats, anot 1st district candidate is drilling down on rural economic issues key to some trump voters

in 2016. >> wt i've heard from people is they wanted change. they were frustrated with the status quo. and that's what we're still seeing. we need real changng we need to cthis economy to benefit everybody and not just people at the top. >> reporter: in the rural farming town of strawberry point, thomas heckroth is pitching a different path forward for primary voters on trade and agricultural issues. >> make sure we have a farm bi that supports working families. that means making sure we havesn programs that are great benefits to local farmers. >> reporter: a former stafferrao iowa democtic senator tom harkin, heckroth cautionsat against demo party overconfidence in 2018. >> a wave doesn't just happen on it's own. we as democrats have ae challenge to make sure we are providing a path forward. >> reporter: that path forward on primary day may rest in the hands of9-year-old abby nkenauer, a state representative with strong financial donor advantages,

national endorsements from the democratic congressional campaign committee, and a >> this is my dad's shop. these bu holes are from the sparks of his welding torch. that's eastern iowa tough. all the candidates that have run here we're all very different. me in particular growing up in rural iowa or as i like to call it: the untry. >> reporter: finkeneaur wears dubuque blue collar ros on her sleeve, a telegraphed nod to potential general election appeal for trump democrats and independents. she often excludes the president from her stump speech. >> i got to be honest, i barelyi mentio i don't really have to because we talk about the stuff that i'm going to do and homuch work we have to do. >> reporter: in order to reach washington, finkenaeur or one of her three primary opponents will have to navigate june 5th and rural trump country voters that paawait democrats on the cn trail this fall. for the pbs newshour, i'm andr ditt in strawberry fields, iowa.

>> brangham: in on to iowa, seven other states are holding primaries tomorrow.e amy walter of ook political report, and susan page, of usa today are with me now. amy, first with you, we saw in this piece in iowa severt differmocrats trying on different shades of blue, a little more liberal, a little more cnservative. has the democratic party cohered around a unified message?t or is it jate by state, race by race? >> yeah, i think a midterm election is not about the party having an ide that is really about -- that's the presidential election, and we'rliterally the party is exemplified by who their nominee is. in midterm elections, each race has its own kind of candidate who represents -- is supposed to represent that specific district. i thinawhat we're seeing ar couple things in the primaries that we've gone through thus far. and remember, we're only about a third of the way through. june really does s us into most of our -- the primaries

through the st of the summer. but we've seen one really big issue for democrats. it's not really ideological. it's about gender. and it's abouwomen. and my colleague david wassermau crunched thebers in these first few primary states and what he found for dmocratic women candidates, when we have a primary between a democratic woman and at least one other man in a dimocratic ry, not an incumbent, women were winning t 69% time. there were fewer republican women running and they're winning at a much lower rate, at about 20%. so it's less about ideology than it gs abonder. s> so, susan, what do you see a the most sort of unifying ideaor to the domes? >> well, the most unifng idea for the dems is opposition to president traump. that is an issue on which every democrat runninggrees. although democrats in some districts are not necessarily talking about tht because the need to appeal to some people who voted for president trump lastime around but either

aren't happy with him or have some other concerns when it comes to trade or health-care that makes them a poible for a democrat to appeal to. but trump is the unifying factor on both sides. republicans unify behind trump in his favor and. democrats unify in his >> and that unification against trump also helps democrats in that the party ist really divided. i know we saw in this iowa case that there is an ideology spectrum, but when it really i mes down to it, democrats' number one concernear this from voters and i hear it from candidates, is simply to be theh republican in november to come to washington to be that check on president trump. >> and in some ways, iuess, the president can -- as far as democrats are concerned, you can sort of make an assumption that the voters on oude on the blue side, they're going to have opposition t you don't necessarily have to be the that drum over and over. >> right. but let's talk aittle bit about the gop. because it seems that even though there seem to beit lly a sense that some canadadays would try to distance themselves from the president as

time has gone on what the president's message is becomes the gop's message. i meanou see this in so many ways. do you think that candidates across the country are running with the president? >> the preside has made it easier by having a great economy, by having a 3.8%em oyment rate released last friday, but having at least the prospect of some progress toward solving or at least beginning to address e situation with north korea and its nuclear program. those are things that have made republican kanddays more comfortable signing on to te presidency. and even though if you want to make a republican quiet, ask him about things like, does the president have the power to pardon himself? >> right. on that, republicans are less enthusiastic about sp up. >> and when you look at the add hes that republicans are running, tre attaching themselves to the president not just on the economy but on at love tse issues that really resonate in republican primaries butrobably don't h independent and democratic voters which is immigration, whether they're talking about building t wall o doing more

to stop illeg immigration, they are -- they're really close to the president's language. there's a lot of the talk about ms-13, tngs like this. that to me is really interesting, because i'm curious to see how many ofhese candidates are going to talk about that once we get to november -- >> right. -- versus democrats which almost all of them are talking about healthcare. they're talking about health-care more than they're talkintalking about trump. i assume that message is goinu to conto go through the general election. >> lastly, and this is probably something e democrats would never in a million years want to talk about but it's bill clinton. he's on a book tour right nong tro sell this new thriller paterson.n with james he was asked today on mbs in light of the -- msnbc i light of the me toz movement. >> look back -- looking back on what happened, through the les of #metoo do you feel more

responsility? >> no, i felt terrible then, and i came to gri with it. >> did you ever apologize? yes, and nobody believes that i got out of that for free. i left the white house $16 million in debt. but you typically have ignored gaping facts i describing this and i bet you don't even know them. this was litigated 30 years ago. u made ofwhat do that? >> he said 20 years to think about his answer on monleica nsky and it is permexing to to how a politician with as many skills as bill clhas does not have a short fwective response to this perfectlyri appre and obvious question to ask, which would be something along the lines of, i'm very sorry for what i did. i apologize. let'oumove on. that be more effective

than the convoluted kind of response tt he gave to craig melvin there on nbc this morning. and it is a kind of thing that makes democrats feel that bill clinton is not an asset that u they ce in many elections. you can think a former esident, served two terms, might be somebody you'd see out on the campaign trail. you really don't. >> it's tteresting, amy, tha he seemed to be indicating -- and this is something we've actually heard from president trump as well, that voters looked at this. they knew what they were tting, and they still sided with me. >> right. so then i won. right? >> and that that's the only measure. >> right. that the "me too movement is really about me. and really what it should be about is what the -- how women have been dealt with by society, how men ve treated women and, in this very specific case, here he had the opportunity and i think susan said it perfectly, he had the opportunity to rally address just one on one, do a little bit of int

little bit of soul searching to say, gosh, you know, now looking at it, not juhst 20 years in past, but through the lens of the #metoo move the, seeing l that has occurred this year, i really understand it in a different way. and his inability to t dohat really speaks to everything that susan sad about not only why it's difficult for democrats to want to put him on the cam trail, but the challenge for taking this movement and bringing it into -- you know, for it to become a bigger and more lasting moment, because it still needs to penetrate in a way that everybody gets it at the same level. >> right. ot there yet. right. i mean, interestingly, he's citing again these public opiniopolls and i think on some level, he was right that a majority of e country looked at the impeachment that was brought against him as a partisan effort, but he seems completely unwilling to grapple with the under sling behavior that got him in trouble the first place.

>> it's true. his ip impeachment was an act of the republicans and they made for it in the el but there's been a cultural shift just in the last year, just very rehe sently that look at questions of power between -- in some ofhese -- in some o sedse situations and has cau a change for a lot of americans. i think a lot of americans look at this and are more likely to be women in these cases and mo likely to say men in power cannot abu their power in cases that involve sexual harassment or sexual misconduct and there acknowledgment of that in this exchange. >> democrats have made a tremendous shift. right? you have democrats coming out and saying, the president should have reigned. right? knowing what we know now so you have the democratic establishment -- in fact, this is something else that's sort of fascinating. the clinton error wasn't that -- era wasn't that long ago but thinking about his policy achievements, whether it was welfare reform, the crime bill,

nafta,hose are being pushed aside by democrats saying that he was too moderate. and now onis thie where a lot of democrats didn't defend him personay but certainly defended the fact that that impeachment was not reasonable now are also saying he should take a look and we as a party should take a look at how monica lewinsky the person was treated. >> amy walter, susan page, thank you very much. >> thank pun >> nawaz: new findings show women with early sta breast cancer can avoid chemotherapy. tion of whether to be treated with chemotherapy is a key question women face after surgery and hormone treatment. researchers now say most women with smaller tumors can safely skip chemo, and avoid its side efcts such as fatigue and nausea. the findings may change clinical practice for as many0,000 women a year in the u.s.

dr. larry norton is a leading breast-cancer specialist andid senior vice prt of memorial sloan kettering cancer center, which participated in the study. thank you for your time. can you just tell us, big picture, off the bat now, why is thisuch an imptant breakthrough? >> well, now we know that we can fy patients who have a very good prognosis and don'ty. need chemother so these patients will be spared chemotherapy. that's a wonwoderfulerful result. >> and you're able to know this now because of a gene test. you can kind of assess people's risks and you're talking about women with what you call intermediate risk. explain to me what that means. >> yeah, well, we do this test of 21 gen. it's called the dx test. and it tells us a scale from 0 to 100 which relates to the risk of the cancer spreading to another pat of the body, very low scores, up to 10, it's a very low chanc that these patients get hormone therapynd chemotherapy doesn't help them.

we've known that for a long time. high scores are at increased risk of the cancer spreading and those patients have benefited a lot from chemotherapy and we've known that also. but the intermediate patients with scores of 11 to 25, we've not known what'sest forem. should we give them chemotherapy? should we not give them what is the best option for these individuals? we haven't had guidance. now we do. there's very large, very important study is telling us thateeople with th intermediate scores have a very gooding pronosis and thating pronessis is not improved byhe chempy. so they don't have to receive chemotherapy. and that's just a wonderful thing to look somebodsain the eye an, you've got a great prognosis. your odds of being cure specific and you don't need chemotherapy. you've got a great proosis. the chemotherapy won't help. it's a wonderful thing to be able to look somebody in the eye and give them thatnformation. >> dr. norton, help me understand, for all the women who have been following standar practice up unw and were receiving chemotherapy, who you now say wouldn't have neededt, was there a risk associated with being ovetreated? >> well, i mean, it depends on

the chemotherapy they received.h ome chemotherapies, there is a slightly increased risk of some bad effects. with other chemotherapies, such as the one wee been using at memorial sloan-kettering which is the cmf, combinatiere's no evidence of long-term toxicity. so there's some variation in that regard. but the risks are very small. the long-term risks are very small. and the people that i've spkeo to who, in this trial, randomized to gethemotherapy, are feeling good about these results because they had the chemotherapy. they're disease free. it hasn't hurt them. but they've helped thousands sad ths of other women, maybe 100,000 women per year, in the united states alone, are going to benefit from these results. and people are ver altruistic. they're real heroes. and they've made a masscoive ribution to helping people with cancer throughout the world. >> dr.arry norton. thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> nawaz: now, the return of one

ofreats of theater and film, after many years she spenn olitics. two years ago, glenda made a powerful acting comeback and now she's back on broadway with a third act to her remarkable career. as jeffrey brown repore is also a strong favorite for a tony award later this week. >> rumble thy bellyfull. >> brown: it was quite a returnf r 23 years away from the theater, glenda jackson took to the stage of london's old vic in 2016n shakespeare's "ki lear," as lear! >> well, that's one of the endearing things about the theater.t i can into a kind of immediate context. you work with people, you may not see them thr decades and you bump into them in the street and it's as though you've just walked out to the same coffee bar. you know, there's no time gap. >> brown: now 82, jackson isba

on broadway for the first time since 1988, starring with laurie metcalf and alison pill in edward albee's "three tall women." it's a play about memory and aging that appealed to jackson because of its strg female roles, something she says is a rarity. we talked recently at the famed sardi's restaurant in times exuare. >> it has been mrience, ever since i first walked onto std got paid for it, that contemporary dramatists find women really, really boring. we are never, or hardly ever, the sort of dramatic engine of what they are writing. >> brown: why do you think that's been the case? >> you're a man, you telme. why do men, who are in the main still the majority of d contemporamatists, find us so boring? they just don't seem to ahink that beioman is either interesting or dramatic or challenging or dangerous. or any of the things that any woman in the world knows our lives can and not infrequently

are. >> brown: has this been a problem for you, in your career and finding roles? >> well of course it's been a probl. and it's a problem that doesn't seem to have changed. that is bemusing to me because it hasn't shifted in all the years i was in the theater, and now i am back in it. >> brown: it's hard to imagine anyone finding glenda jackson boring. benning in the 1960s jason was a prominent presence on stage and screen on both sidesti of the atl >> i could never love you. f brown: she reached wideame in the 1969 film, "women in love," for which she won her first acady award for best tress. her performances, often playing strong, dynamic women, continued to win acclaim and awards, including: two emmys for the 1971 bbc series, "elizabeth r," whh aired on public television's masterpiece sceater. she won a second oar for the

1973 film "a touch of class." but in 1988, jackscr, a longtime ic of the government of conservative british prime minister margaret thatcher, left acting f what would become ang decades-olitical career as a labor party member of the british parliament. h brown: when you left acting was it because y done enough or had enough? >> good heavens, no! my country was being destroyed! anything i could do that was legal to get margaret thatcher out, and her government out, i was prepared to have a go at. and because everything i had been taught to regard as vices, she told me were virtues.d grsn't greed, it was

doughty independence. selfishn it was taking care of your immediate responsibilities. >> brown: diyou come to feel that you accomplished something meaningful as a litician? >> not as an individual. because the idea that you have individual power in that sense is actually not true. you have clear responsibilities towards your own constituents and your own constituency.th that was for mmost interesting part of it. but s we did make changes bu then of course along came the iraq war and it all psh-kaboom, like that, so far as i was concerned. >> brown: one issue she championed: women's rights in the home and workplace. i asked if she was surprised by the force of the #metoo movement now. >> what surprises me is that people are surprised. i meann my country for example two women die every week at the hands of their partner, not infrequently male, usually invariably male, every week.

now that's not on the front pages of newspapers every week.o his sudden almost cataclysm of surprise, shock, horror, how could this have happened. i don't buy it. people are deluding theelves. i mean we fail to acknowledge it, we fail to really work to eraancate ithat it takes more than just being shocked to eradicate it. y >> brown: so f personally, do you have any regrets about having taken the time away from acting? no, i mean it is an inordinate privilege to be a member of parliament. i mean people give you their trust and they also give you what i regard as their most valuable right in thisense, their vote. and that is a very humbling and privileged experiencto have.

co brown: so now that you're back do you plan tinue acting? >> well i would hope to. yeah i mean you know, yes. it's one of the things that have oment verys at the central and essential in my life. to say here it is, yes, if the work is that exciting and daunting, because i've been t privilegexperience this past couple of years. >> brown: "three tall women" runs through june 24th for the pbs newshour, i'mbr jeffren from broadway in new york. >> nawaz: and we'll be back shortly with a view on whether science and religion can coexist. but first, take a moment to hear from your local pbs station. it's a chance to offer your support, which helps keep progra

>> nawaz: one conflict in the ongoing culture wars seems toes suthat science and religion cannot coexist peacefully. a if you arue believer of alan lightman is a distinguished physicist and a novelist, who teaches at m.i.t. ght he shares his humble opinion, on how to make space

for both facts and spirituality. governed by a small number of laws and that everything in the world eventually disintegrates and passes away. and then one summer night, i was out in the ocean in a small boat.da it was rk, clear night, and the sky vibrated with stars. i laid down in the boat an looked up. after a few minutes, i found liself fal into infinity. elf, andll track of mys the vast expansive time extending from the far distant past to the far distant future seemed compressed to a dot. i felt connected to something eternal and etheirial, something beyond the material r. in recent years, some

scientists have attempted to use scientific arguments to question the existence of god. i think these peoplere missi the point. god is conceived by most religions lies outside time and space. cou can't use scienti arguments to either disprove or prove god. and for the same reason, yo can't use scientific arguments to analyze or understand the feeling i had tha summer night when i lay down in the boat and looked up and felt pat of something far larger than myself. i'm still a scientist. i still believe that the world is made of atms and molecules and nothing more. but i also believe in the power and validity of the spiritume experience. is it possible to be comtted to both without feeling a contradiction? i think so. wo understand that everything in the physicarld is material

faded to -- fated pass awy. yet we also long for the permanent, some grand and eternal unity where idealists d we're realists. we're dreamers and we're builders. we experience and we do experiments. we long for certainties, and yet we ourselves are full of the ambiguities of the mona lisa and the iching. we ourselves are part of the yin yang of the world. >> nawaz: and that's the newshour for tonight.m na nawaz. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you and see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> and by the alfred p. sloan foundation. cupporting science, technology, and improved econo performance and financial

literacy in the 21st century. >> supported by cae john d. and erine t. macarthur foundation. committed to building a more just, verdant and peaceful world. more information at macfnd.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ ♪ ♪ -today on "america's test kitchen," bre get and julia share crets to a simple stovetop macaroni and cheese, dan revealskthe science behind wg, adam revear his top pick folarge saucepans, lisa tests lid holders, and becky makes julia foolproof turkey meatloaf. it's all coming up on "america's test kitchen." "america's test kitchen" is brought to you by the following... always been a big believer