welcome to "amanpower" on pbs. night as a growing chorus of religiousde l speak out against separating parents and children at the border, i ask about the administration ng invo scripture to justify this policy. plus, children gripped by a thoroughly modern curse. cach addiction. the children-wideaign, this should be a public health issue, and she's joining me here in the studio to discuss. good evening, everyone. welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour in

london. immigration seems to be occupying the world stage. it is roiling europe right now and heartbreaking images of traumatized children at the u.s./mexico border are being beamedos athe globe. protests against zero tolerance, the trump administration's policy of forcibly separating migrant children from their parents are now rolling i an unexpected cor evangelicals an essential building block of trump's loyal base. they're weighing in, calling the policy disgraceful, immoral, and even devastating. clergy from jeff sessions' own chump, the attorney general, the united methodist ofin bri church law charges against him saying tearing children away from parents is unnecessarily cruel and the presbyterian church which is donald trump's denomination calls out in the name of god of abraham, isaac and jacob, in the name of our lo jesus christ, stop,nd even today, president trump

doubled down saying the united states needs security, whether it's politically correct or not. the reverend samuel rodriguez is also speaking out against this practice. he isde pre of the national hispanic christian leadership ndnference, an ally and adviser to donald trump one of the few clergy chosen to speak at the president's inauguration 18 months ago. take a listen. >> god blesses those who are omor and realize their need for him, for the kinf heaven is theirs. god blesses those who mourn, for comforted.be >> so a little of the beatitudes from reverend rodriguez who joins me from sacramento, california. reverend t welcomeo the program. i want to first before we play you some of the devditating that's come out from the border, what in generalak you of what's happening there right now. >> this policy, the separation of families can best be

described as morally reprehensible, anti-christian, and anti-american. it is cometely unnecessary, without a doubt. it is egregious, and we must find that expedited solution as expeditiouslyles poss we're calling upon congress to act this week. ted cruz and fefeinstein, john to bring an end to this trag horrific policy. >> reverend, one of the other senior senators, lindsey graham has said the president himself could end this with a phone call. it's not federal law. he could end it with a phone call. thave you advised him do so? have you been in contact with him atall? >> i haven't been in contact with him on this matter. in fullsu disc, again, it's not a trump bill that he signed. this is the convergence of a 1997 settlement with the clinton administtion, subsequently the convergence of george w. bush's wilbur force act. we've h greatintentions, by

the way, against human trafficking and then the u.s. circui court of appeals in 2016 expanding the fenres settl and the wilbur flores act so it's the trump administration implementing policy already in place with zero sort of grace. again, it's wrong. it's morally reprehensible, anti-christian. i'm calling upon congresenand the presto act as soon as possible. we can't separate families. there's nothing christian about it, there's nothing redempive about it. i agree with the president. we have torotect our border. i agree with the president, we have to stop illegal immigration, for many rpes, even for a moral imperative to end sex trafficking and human slavery and the coyotes exploiting people on the border, without a doubt,ut this is not the best way to get the message atacross. as ar of fact, i find it to be reprehensible to use children as tools of political expedienc expediency. >> so reverend, i want to play

u this audio that has really been shocking people, come from pro-publica, a non-profite investigatournalist operation, and it's audio that was taped of these childn at the border in severe stress and distress. let's just listen. >> mommy. >> reverend, i saw you shaking your head there. >> you know at's ironic, i'm moved by this, let me tell you why for those w don't

understand the spanish vernacul vernacular, the borderalgent is ac saying, well, look what we have here. we have an orchestra playing, what w need is a conductor. my god, these are children crying out forelp, crying out r dad, crying out for parents. this is so wrong. what we're hearing right now by the way, what we're hearing right now is the crescendo of as voices from a that supports, by the way, strongly supports its president on religiouliberty, life issues on so many issues that expand our ability to preach the gospel of love, grace, truth and hope so we support esident on this matter, but that same base -- listen, we've reached the tipping point, when franklin graham, one of the most conservative evangelical leaders not in america but on the planet, when franklin graham comes out and says this is completely wrong,here's nothing right about this er whatsoso we've reached that crescendo where the evangelical supportingalhe base isng out for the president

and cgress to act immediately. >> talking about people who support the president it's important they have the credibility with the base, but also we have the conservative right wing media for instance on fox news. do you think they also need to change their tone? this is what ann coulter, a miry, very pnt supporter f the president on this harsh immigration policy what she said on fox news about this tape and ab t the heartbreak of the kids.te just l >> these child actors weeping and c/7ing rightfa now do not for it, mr. president. >> i mean, that's brutal. >> child actors, child actors. child actors. listen, i have in full disclosure, i have friends on the fox news network and i can

assure you that ann does not speak on behalf of the fox network or on behalf of many of the correspondents or pundits whatsoever. without a doubt. child actors? that's just lly. intellectual not -- emotional brutal and silly, absolutely wrong. there are midterms coming up. there are midterms coming up and that same % evangelical supportive base that does support the president and commends him and applauds him on so many issues that same base may not turn out this november if this policy is in place. i can assureyou. there is great angst and consternation on behalf of evangelicals around this issue of separating families. christian 's nothing about it. it's actually anti-christian fin there's any jesus advocated for was protecting children. let the children come unto mimi because theirs is the kingdom of heaven. christ is the quintessential

child advocate in all of the universe and this policy runs counter to the spirit and the ethost of ch >> you know, you said it doesn't represent fox, but actuallya la ingraham, another very, very prominent fox commentatan contributor said that, you know, these cages the kids are being put in, she called it summer camp, this detention area for t kids. the thing is, it may not represent the whole of fox, but it's a very very loud voice for trump supporters, and i just want to ask you, because the facts are here, cnn did a poll, and basically it shows that the overwhelming majority of amicans, 67% disapprove the separational policy, but when it comes to republicans, 58% approve. they're getting, i don't know where they're getting their info from and why they whprove. would you say to that? >> i would say to all republicans and all

conservatives, that advocate this idea and notion, since 1980 the republican party has been the champion of what, pro-life, pro-family platform, right, the pro-family platform. you can't be both pro-famibe and in favor of separating families. there's a lack of a cognitive continuum there, and even a moral continuum, so if you are pro-family,rtou can't sup separating familyies again, thi dichotomy we create i am in favor of border prottion, of stopping illegal immigration but i'm equly opposed to separating families. why do we have to be either slb somer on the left and on or? the right, they suffer from myopia, they have a tunnel vision and they lack some sort of a comprehensive naeeative. we to stop this and conservatives need to realize there are midterms coming up, and they need to mobilize the base. 80% of evangelicals supported

donald trump as a strong base that turns out to vote, midterm and every four years. this base right now is consternation, angst and becoming very upset. there is righteous indignation, righteous indignation rising up right now, in the evangelical mmunity around the issue of immigration and the separation of families. i agree with president trump. when he stated the onus falls upon congress if they want to chge thelaw, let congress change it. i'm calling upon my friends in congress, th democrats and republicans, nancy pelosi, and paul ryan, who i know personally, i'm calling upon them right now to act, and mitch ecconnell and chuck schumer to act in the sen in the next seven, eight days and find a solution to this immigration melee. >> i wonder what your own flock, your own churchgoers are telling you. you respondedategorically to the religious imperative and the moral imperative. wonder if i could play the

sound bites over the last we f we've hearm the attorney general and white house podium, sah huckabee sanders which invoke the bible and the ef scriptures tod this policy. i want to you listen. i know'r y exorcised about this. you can tell me about it at the other side. >> i would say to the apostle paul and his clear and wise command inomans 13, to obey the laws of the gove gment, becaus is ordained the government for his purposes orderly and lawful processes are good inthemselves. >> i can say that it is very biblical to enforce the law, that is actually repeated a number ofimes throughout the bible. >> reverend, biblical scholars have pushed back very heavily and i can see you are, too. they remember that way bac en, these very, very same scriptures were justified, used to justify slavery, and all

sorts of other nlhorrors. cert slavery, so what do you make of today's politicians, leaders of the country, making these invocations? >> let me just give a word tf advi all politicians. if you have not graduated wit a demin or a doctorate in theolog seminary that preaches the biblical truth, don't cite the bible. don'e the bible especially don't cite the bible to justify actions that are so controversial and run counter to the meta narrative of scripture of truth, g love,ce and hope. do not. dear mr. attorney general, with grea due deference, please do not cite romans 13 to justify a policy that runs counter to genesis toon revela do not use one scripture, one usripture tofy an action that runs against every other

scripture in the bible. please, stick to your attorney general mandate and assignment with greaterue dce and do not -- let the preachers preach, let the attorney general do his job, but again, it's wrong. it's inappropriate, and we're not accepting it and we're not embracing it. t are w we tolerate and we won't complacent. as you can tell, i'm passionate about this. silence is not an option. we won't be silent. agai i agree with the president. i agree with my president. congress needs to act now. by the way, i did hear the president this past friday state explicitly that he is opposed to separating families, that it is wrong, andhen i heard his wife, the first lady say the same thing, so i gree with them. now that it's wrong, and we have former first ladies making statement, my friend jeb bush and others, let's come together. let's get congress to act immediately in the next week. >> reverend, i think listening to you, you're absolutely right,

congress has punted this ove and over again. it's a real shame,no and it' reaching its terrible human cost and crescendo on the border, but many also say the president is punting as well, because he could stois. it is not part of any mandated policy, it's h own administration's policy, but what i want to ask you this, is i wonder whether you can look at is graph that we're putting up, which basically shows that the whole premise is america isr being n with illegal immigrants, what president trump said again, but in fact, arrests of migrants are down fro president trump, half of what we saw under president obama so it undermines the premise that sohow there a terrible danger afoot and a great threat to the republic. >> we got to balance this out. hesten, i'm in california, and i have seen egregious impact of what iall theinfillation

of nefarious activity being the conduit of certain sectors of the undocumented community, primarily t primaril highlighted in los angeles and throughout the state of california and new york and country.ions of the so i do agree with the president. we have to stop illegal gr imion. there are people that want to do us harm but i'm still committed f the people 98.7% o that are here undocumented are amazing pellle, they r are. created in the image of god, and ommitted to doing good for themselves, and for their families. now i want them to come here legall but we need to find a way to integrate them. no, i don't think america is being taken over by undocumentdu indis. i do not. i do believe we have to stop illegal immigration. so we have t find a happy medium as expeditiously as possible but again, we have to redeem the narrative. this nation is blessed by immigran, historically. i believe immigrants are a great

blessing to america indeed. sten, they're god fearing, hard working and they have an amazing,omazing commitment t family. god, family and hard work. are these anti-american values? not.lutely so immigrants may actually enrich the collective of the american experienc >> a really important message and certainly from your perspective, reverd samuel rodriguez, thank you so much for joining us, from california, tonight. >> thank you for having me. now the mental health stress on those children and the families at the border is incalculable but mental health isue an i troubling much of our world, including our youth, in all sorts of different ways. here in the e, pri william has just opened britain's first er crisis center for suicidal n in liverpool. the recent high-profile suicides of the designer kate spade and our colleague anthony brdain have made us reflect on the deeper understanding of the rying and complex triggers of

deterioration. big area of concern is social media, not least the pressures of a perfect instagram d.wo new report says that tech addiction should be a public heale, is and baroness kidrom whose foundation who wrote the report says children urgently need a better deal and e now.g welcome to the program. >> thank you, good to be here. >> we've taught before. you have been folwing this issue of tech addiction, and mental health in children very, very closelyor the last several years and i just want to read one of the hhlightsf your report about the creation of the internet. your report basically says the internet i an extraordinary force for good but it was not designed with childn inmind. despite this, it is now part of every aspect of children's lives, used to socialize, play, create and learn. you can't get away from it if you're a kid. >> absolutely it's not optional. i think that's the first thing

we have to think about. it wasn't designed for children to be est, and then they're there using the adult services and it's not just about content. it's about how it's designed, and that's what the report gathers together all the a thinkiut the design, is this appropriate for childhood. >> we've been doing alot. we followed a lot of the design of the dternet, we follo a ot along the facebook and algorithms and apps. what specifically in regard t children is in your view the design flaw? >> well if you think about things lik default settings, if you have auto play, you automacally have the nex piece and then you get a tech tantrum. it's not a oice. we're saying we have to redesign it, so it's a choice to carry on, not a choice to get off, and everything is like that.

period of their life where their attention can be grabbedery easily, and what we find is that if you get into a series of habit it'set hard to them out. >> the world health organization has come out and aually sai that, computer games and video games i think are a major mental health issue, right? >> absolutely, and the nhs has iction is that game a an issue for them in the health survey. >> you talk about tech addiction and it should be a public healts issue and l just take some of these stats from your report and onstally they're blind blowing. 86% of 3 to 4-year-olds have access to a tablet. 83% of 12 to 15-year-ol own a

smartphone. that's almost -- are we talking about great britain, the united kingt.m? >> we're it is a global problem and our report does look at t uk. if you think about america, one of the stats that i thought w extraordinary was a 70% of american teenagers are saying they have family conflict over technology and 30% are saying e it'sry single day. it's not just them, they're watching their parents fail to watch eithem. parents are on their tovices. nobody is attendinnybody else. we are all attending to our devices. so we are seeing social anxiety, if you use yourhone before bedtime you're more likely to have interrupted sleep, that's half of all children. we're seeing educational im

cts. really interesting piece of work they say actually low achacvers eve lower if they use the phone too much, when they take away the phone, those are the people who benefit most. it's imprinting more equality into children. >> they are putting bans on phones at night and thought there would be backlash. personal anxiety, social ggression, denuded relationships, impact on education and children seem to be crying for help. one of them scrolling forer ves me a sick feeling in my stomach. i'm aware of how littli control ave and the feeling of needing to be online and always consuming. this is like an instagram always consuming addictive world. what advice do you give to the parents? >> well i think it's really difficult fo we do give advice.

we say detoxify what you can, help your kid switch off, put your own phones dow but i think it's wrong to point at parents d parent blaming, is sort of we can't say parents and children have to adapt to a commercial needs ofy technol companies. we have to say look we understand you've done this incredible thing, you brought us this incredible technology. you did not anticipate it. third of all of the 3 billion users are under 18. that's a third of all users this is not a marginal problem we are saying they are there so think again. look at your astronomical share. pr don't tell me you'll fall over if you get a better deal to the kids. >> with apple for instance is a good example, tim cook has been saying certain things. two of apple's major initive stors appealed to the company this year saying there

is a developing conis enious around the world including in si con valley that the potential long-term consequences of new technologs need to be factorred in the outset. no company can outsource that responsibility. what should companies . you quote another teenager. it makes me angry thatbu nesses use specific designs to keep young people on their apps or websites. they're exploiting unknowing young people this is an ongoing debate. i know you talked about the high share price and everything. is tre a tipping point? >> i think there say tipping point coming but a biggerhi question is, what other company would we say it was okay to do your business and harm children? to harm children t get your revenue is not a business model it's not acceptable. the thing is, actually there's

quite a lot they can do without daging themselvesnd it starts with time-out, time off, defat off, save buttons, make it frictionless to get off as well as on, all of thengs. you know, technology is concentrated as if it was mountains but it's not. it's all designed. it's rebooted, it's very regularly, and the designs are made tontrap kids, and we're saying new >>deal. the other way. let them free. >> let them free. >> just seconds left, governments, are governments to legislate this or does it have to be volunteered by the sectors the business? >> i'md disappoin voluntary. i think self-regulation has been terrible, they haven't ste.ed we've seen a lot of deals that really haven't been very meaningful, and we are going to regulate, this will be regulated, but i think that on this particular issue, it would

be really helpful if governments all over the globe recognize this as a harm, and had all the policy and all the education and all the things that flow from that, and say this is a public health issue, we want our kids with their heads to the sky full of imagination, not just >> baroness, thank you so much. really important report. and we've had two really important conversations tonight. this about the tech addiction, earlier about the humanity or the inhumanity of theolicies that have been taken out at the u.s./mexico border right now. that is it for our program thanks for watching "amanpour" on pbs and join us again morrow night.

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100 days" on p. maybe the sound of a child crying in texas will change the minds of adults in washington.st chn: a secret recording from an immigrant detentionse center is ling politicians on capitol hill. [chiren crying] katty: these desperate cries do not help the president, heading to congress to defend his policy of separating kids from parent who try to enter the country illegally. even some top republicans now ocesshe controversial must stop, but mr. trump stands firm. >> we want a country with heart, but when people comehey have to know they can't get in. otherwise it is never going to stop. chriian: also on the program a senior british politician calls for cannabis to be legalized for recreational as