welcome to amanpour on pbs. tonight the first lady shows up at the border as president trump's executive order reversing family separation raises even more questions. the mayor of el paso texas tells me he's horrified by the inhumanity of it all. also ahead, as turkey gives up for potentially game changing election, i ask the main opposition leader why he thinks he can give the powerful president a run for his money. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening, everyone, and

welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour in london. first lady melania trump made a surprise visit to the meks conborder today. she toured a child detention center in mcallen texas. president trump's wife played a major role behind the scene convincing her husband to stop enforcing his own policy of separating migrant children and their parents. he ended that under pressure yesterday, but it only further deferred the crisis. local officials have no instructions on reuniting the more than 2000 children who have already been separated. while the u.s. border agency says they won't be reunited with their parents until after they're prosecuted, but will they be prosecuted? to see the crisis firsthand, the bipartisan group of mayors from across the country travel to the border near el paso, calling for an end to what they called a moral crisis. their host was el paso mayor dean margot. he's a republican, and i caught up with him at the border in

tornillo. mayor margot, welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> what have you been seeing, what is your message today? >> well, i'm joining the u.s. conference of mayors, a group of us, to state publicly, to provide -- to apply as much pressure as we can on the administration to stop the incarceration of children, which he announced yesterday, president announced he wasn't going to do. but at the same time we want to remind people that this is only a symptom of the root cause and that's the lack of immigration reform out of congress because apparently over the last 30 to -- plus years, they haven't had the intestinal fortitude to take action properly on immigration reform. >> let me just take both of those issues. the executive order that the president signed does say that they're going to keep families together. but do you have any idea what's going to happen to the more than

2000 who authorities say have already been separated from their parents over the last weeks or so? and how are they ever going to get back to their parents? >> that's a question we've been asking as a conference of mayors and we haven't been given any answers. the city of el paso is doing a resolution next week at our city council on the same issue. we want immediate -- the children to be placed back with their parents immediately. as i say, this is symptomatic of a bigger problem, and el paso is the largest u.s. city on the u.s./mexico border. we're one region of over 400 years. we're a region with a total population of 2.7 million. we are the border. we understand it binationally, biculturally and bilingually. so, any time anybody wants to talk about immigration, they shouldn't be doing it in washington. they ought to be down here in el

paso. >> so, i'm going to get to the big picture in a moment, but what i do want to ask you, is there even a database -- these children have been separated from their families already. does anybody even know who belongs to who? have they taken the requisite names, dates, i don't know, fingerprints, whatever you need to be able to reunite families in these chaotic conditions? >> we have been -- christiane, we have been given no information regarding the children, where they are. all we know is they are being distributed throughout the united states which was a surprise to some of us. we heard about them being placed in michigan. we heard about them being placed in new york. rhode island, elsewhere. that's the reads we came together as a group of mayors to say enough is enough. this is ridiculous. this is not what we're about as a nation. we need rational immigration reform. we do need to protect our borders, but we need rational immigration reform. >> what about people having access to these children? none of the press has been able

to see them. we don't really know what's going on. even congress people are told that they have to give the authorities two weeks' notice to be able to see these children. >> we were told the same thing, christiane. we were told that we needed to -- we threw this meeting together in about 48 hours. we thought it was imperative that we speak immediately because of the incarceration of the children, but secondly, knowing that immigration reform is supposed to be voted on this week in the house of representatives -- in fact, i think today. so, we wanted to have a voice representing cities from both sides of the united states, east and west coast, and central america -- in the central part of our country as well as the border. but we've been given no information. we've been told we had to make a two-week petition to see, and we know as much as the media knows and other congressional

delegation members. >> which is pretty little. i hear your distress, mayor. i see you distressed. and it just sounds inhumane even in the way you're describing it. do you think that's inhumane? >> it is inhumane. you had four living first ladies say the first thing this weekend. it's not what we're about. and the very idea, if i understand the authorities for being instructed not to pick the children up, that's ridiculous. i have a 6-year-old, 4-year-old and 2 week old grandson. it's ridiculous. it's not what we're about and we need to take action in washington. >> so, i mean, look. we have heard this dilemma, this cry, this complaint for years about lack of rational policy in washington, that the two sides can't get together, that there's no solution. but, in fact, there are solutions. there are rational immigration

policies and the politicians simply haven't organized them. do you think from your experience and what you are seeing now in this amazing tragic heated moment that they can knock their heads together? do you think that these politicians sitting in washington will finally come up with a rational solution to an immigration issue? >> well, i think from a standpoint of our nation, i hope and pray we do. people -- most of the time, congressional leaders and even many state legislators do not understand the border. they've rarely been to the border. we're a community of 400 -- for over 400 years. you cannot tell the difference between el paso and mexico. you literally cannot tell the difference. it's been over 400 years. we have family on both sides, commerce on both sides. we've been traversing back and forth 400 years. people just don't understand how it works. >> so, you are a fourth generation el pasoan if i can

put it that way. your family came from mexico. just explain to people who may not understand what you're just saying about the border, the incredible intertwining of lives and cultures and economies. what should people who are not near the border think about it? >> well, i think what they think is a bunch of criminals or illegal immigrants are coming across and that's not what we have. we have commerce. we have people living on both sides. we have an outlet mall in el paso with 9 million visitors on an annual basis. 47% of those visitors are from mexico. they're coming over, they're buying goods and services from el paso and going back. el paso is the 10th largest trading export with latin america and mexico. texas has a $97 billion worth of trade with mexico. we have a trade surplus. it's both nafta, it's immigration, it's all of the above. we're really one region.

we are international. >> mr. mayor, you know, just tick off these two points for us. the president and his supporters say there are -- in fact, in his words, infestation. they're coming over to infest the country. that's the word he used in a tweet implying there are a lot of illegals, a lot of criminals, drug smugglers and the like. we've seen graphs that show actual arrests have been going down over the last several years. so give us, please, the facts about the level of crime. >> all right. el paso is the safest city in the united states by any fbi or other measurement that you have, and we have been in the top three for many years. we are the safest city in the united states. we do not have the issues that are being talked about that you're referencing. we haven't had them. we don't have them. so, i'm at a quandary as to the -- how they articulate or

convey or portray from mexico what's going on. that's not our issue here. we have four jobs in juarez, mexico and one in el paso texas. we have 50,000 tied to the manufacturing in juarez. it's not fair. we have a fence that was put in during the bush administration. the fence was primarily for criminal activity. it wasn't so much immigration or illegal immigration issues. it had to do with car thefts and things like that. it was done years ago. it's fine. i am against the terminology of a wall that conjures up to me the berlin wall. i don't think it's conducive to our relationship with mexico or what we're about, again, as a nation. and of course we shouldn't be incarcerating children. >> mr. mayor, the wall is really important because many people say it is a large part of what got donald trump elected. there have been periodic surges of people coming across,

particularly when the relationship with mexico breaks down, coming across from central america and all the rest of it. i've heard law enforcement, fbi, engineers, i've heard homeland security, former homeland security officials say it is just dream-o-vision to think there will ever be a successful wall, that this concept will not ever be 100% or close to it effective. >> first of all, from a geographical standpoint you can't do it. it won't fit all the way across. most of the land hand me is all private land on the border. it just won't work. now, i can see fences in certain areas, like we have here through downtown el paso and on our west side and parts of it, but, you know, we do need to protect our borders. i won't deny that. but the idea of a multi-billion dollar structure makes no real

sense economically or from an efficiency outcome. >> you know, i think every single nation knows that borders need to be protected and that is not an issue. >> right. >> but i want to ask you as a republican mayor, what do you feel -- how do you feel? do you support your president, do you support your administration on this particular issue? and where do you want to see the deck fall when it comes to immigration reform in washington? what do you expect congress to do? >> well, you know, i've said before in other interviews i understand what i think the president is trying to do to send a message. incarceration, separation of children from the parents is not the way to do it. he may be trying to apply pressure on congress to do what they need to do. we need to deal with daca. we need to deal with the immigrants that are the undocumented immigrants that are already in the united states who are actually probably productive citizens under false social security numbers and other

things. we need to come with that. but daca for sure, those kids didn't ask for it, especially those that have served in the military. if you served in the military as a dreamer, you ought to be automatically given citizenship. there are a number of things that ought to occur. i just think the rhetoric has gotten out of hand and in most cases the people who are espousing that incorrect rhetoric have never been to the border and don't understand the border and that's my point in talking about el paso and our community of over 400 years. >> mayor of el paso, thank you for joining us. really, please, your rational conversation and solution to this is coming across loud and clear. thank you so much. >> thank you, christiane. >> and now we turn to turkey. over the last several years, turkey has taken in hundreds of thousands of immigrants and refugees from syria and elsewhere in order to stop them coming into europe. it is also a major u.s. ally and it is also a nato ally. it is also a country that for

many years was very much on the way to a democracy. but now there are fears that it is turning more into one-man rule under one man, and that is president erdogan. he's been in power for more than 15 years, but sunday brings the first real challenge to erdogan's rule. arguably it is the most important one in history. if erdogan and his ruling wins sweeping powers revert to the president and parliament threatens to be marginalized. but erdogan's opponents are stronger and more emboldened this year. the face of this new movement is a man who surprisingly seems to be resonating with voters. and i spoke to him during a stop on his whirlwind campaign trail. welcome to the program. >> translator: thank you very much. >> a lot of people are saying

it's going to be really tough to stop erdogan. what makes you think that your candidacy can be successful against this president who has been in power for 15 years and he has a real, you know, he's really good at the polls when it comes to elections. >> translator: i believe in the power of the street. i believe in the will of our people for change. our people are suffocated. turkey is suffocated. our institutions are conquered. democracy has disappeared. one man is running the country. turkey needs to find a way out of this. >> what is it like running this kind of campaign under a state of emergency? the country is still in that state since the attempted coup a couple years ago. >> translator: erdogan is using the resources of the state. using the airplane and helicopter of the state, using the money of the state. i campaign by using the money donated by the volunteers, but i set my heart on this.

erdogan campaigns with the money of the state. i campaign with the heart of the people. donations collected by the volunteers and the position of the people will beat the money of the state. >> when you said you will all be able to tweet freely if i'm elected, what do you mean? why did you say that? it sounds like a weird campaign promise. >> translator: university students of this country may not like some of the practices of the president. they should be able to criticize the president. but at the moment, if you tweet against erdogan at 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning, police come to your home and put them in prison. this is not going to happen when i am president. i will appear on tv channels, not with partisan press, but with the young people to have discussions with them on the issues. this is what i mean. >> if you do win, will you

revert turkey back to a parliamentary system? because if erdogan wins, he wants to solidify a very, very powerful presidential system. >> translator: my first task will be to lift the state of emergency within 48 hours. we will review the judicial system and we will create an independent judiciary. the management of the central bank and its chairman will be made independent. we will clear the path of investors and there will be a transparent government. the appointments in the public sector will be based on objective criteria. whatever is available in the west we will have the same system. our education will be secular, scientific, and free. whatever industries are available in germany, for example, we will have the same industries. this is what our aim will be. our aim is also to be in the european union. we will start the negotiations

with the e.u. again. we want a free turkey where the young can speak. at the moment, 210,000 people are in detention and 70,000 of them are students. turkey doesn't deserve this. we will soon make reforms and restorations to resolve these issues and we will soon go back to a parliamentary regime in turkey. >> the turkish people have always depended and trusted mr. erdogan to take care of the economy, and for many years it's been a very, very rapidly growing economy. how much trouble is the slowing economy and the devaluation of the lyra, how much trouble is that for mr. erdogan right now? >> translator: during erdogan's era, turkish debt has increased by $333 billion. this is to say at the moment turkish debt is $453 billion. erdogan has indebted turkey. the current deficit is $55

billion. inflation in the kitchen is about 30%. one in every four educated young people are unemployed. turkey is holding elections under such circumstances. the recession is at our doorstep. erdogan didn't run turkey well. the growth is an artificial growth. erdogan buried the money in concrete. he didn't invest in factories, production and investments. i am going to work on agriculture-based industries. stagnant industries will be reinvigorated. i'm going to use the labor force in a correct manner. we will not allow turkey to be robbed. there will be no corruption. we will develop turkey in a short time. >> all right. thank you. >> translator: i thank you. >> and with that, ripping off his mic, taking out his ear piece, he was dashing off to another campaign stop. so i caught up with him earlier this week. as we just heard, of course, turkey's he can no, ma'am ilk woes are dominating the mood ahead of sunday's vote. joining me now to put that and the other big elections into

perspective is the leading analyst on turkey and he's joining me now from washington. welcome to the program. >> it's a pleasure. >> so, first and foremost, on the hope of this sort of anyone but erdogan style coalition or group of opposition that mr. enjay we just talked to is counting on, do you think they have a better chance this time than in previous elections? >> in fact, they do. i think erdogan's main challenge is this time he faces a couple of competent opposition leaders who have been able to rally the base. both of these leaders are pious like erdogan so it's easy for him to target them for being not religious or irreligious in the past. as he lhas done in the past. they are both formidable candidates so he'll have a difficult time crossing 50% to become president. >> i sort of asked him -- you mean erdogan is going to have a hard time with the 50%? >> that's correct. >> so, do you expect, therefore,

there to be a runoff? >> that is yet to be seen because he also has a pretty solid base that worships him. erdogan's bright side is that he has delivered economic growth in the last 15 years and lifted many people out of poverty: so he has a very loyal base composed of mostly conservative turks, many of which he has lifted out of poverty that adores him. that's half of turkey. the dark side is come poedsedpo people he has cracked down on. that's the dark side. which is bigger, they seem to be equally large in the sense that turkey is split nearly down the middle 50/50. and this is why i think elections still matter in turkey. if turkey is like russia and mr. erdogan wants to be put -- whether he wants to be put in turkey, not russia, where putin wins majority with 60, 70% support, in turkey, erdogan can

still win barely 50% support. although he has tight grip on the country's institution and media. that means despite everything, turkey is a democracy, hopeful for the future. the country is still very pluralistic and i believe in turkey's democratic traditions going forward. >> that's really interesting because you have said a lot of the things people are worried about, the number of journalists in jail, the fact that the vast majority of the media is beholden to him. the fact that he gets the lion's share of air time on, you know, the state media and uses, presumably has the services of facilities like transport and all the rest of it for his campaign. what do you make of mr. enjay saying as part of his promise, if i'm elected, you will all be able to tweet freely again? >> and that's probably true. because when mr. erdogan came to power nearly 16 years ago, his promise was to give more freedom to all turks and that's what

made him appealing. of course in the matter of two decades he has now become the establishment. the establishment against which he was f f f fg once upon a time. he's no more identified with freedom. rather with limitations and curbs on freedoms and liberties. that's why i think mr. enjay's campaign is refreshing because he has now become the antiestablishment candidate. he is offering freedoms. i think maybe the blush is off the rose for mr. erdogan this time. even if he wins, it looks like he not only has a competent opposition leader that will challenge him, also he's no more shaping the narrative of making turkey more free and more equal. that baton is passing off to the hands of his opposition. >> why is this important for the west, for the united states, for western europe? as i said, the major western ally, nato ally, and he did bring immense democratic and economic, judicial and all sorts of reforms when he first came to power. but the west sees him not as a arrive 58, but as increasingly

nondemocratic now and almost obstructionist in many policies. why is this election important for the west and for the region, in fact? -- >> well, it's important. if he wins the election mr. erdogan will be the most powerful leader since 100 years ago. the new power erdogan gained as a result of the referendum, if he wins the election that will make him head of state, head of government, head of the military, head of the police which is a national force, and head of ruling party. he will become the most powerful turk in recent memory. the problem with that of course is while half of the country loves him and adores him, the conservative half, that includes many people he has lifted out of poverty. the other half mostly composed of leftist and seculars dee spies him. if he wins, turkey's crisis which is a direct result of his trajectory is not going to end. it's going to be exacerbated. i feel unless mr. erdogan

becomes a politician and unites the country again, his victory does not promise stability for turkey. it actually might be a threat to make turkey more unstable. >> so, we were just seeing some banners and they were for the main kurdish party leader. and he is actually in jail and he was allowed to make a speech from jail. but people have described the election as sort of, you know, you can't really have a free proper election under a state of emergency where one of the main leaders is in 1y5i8 and all the rest of it. do you think it will be a credible election? >> i think that so far the campaign has not been fair and that's unfortunate. turkey has been having free and fair elections longer than as has spain. turkey goes back to 1950. the campaign has not been fair. mr. erdogan has stacked all odds in his favor. pro government controls 90% of the media. the government controls and

censors online content. it is held under a emergency put in place after 2016 which mr. erdogan has extended seven times so it's hard to speak of a fair campaign. but i hope the vote will be free and that's because turks have been doing elections for nearly 70 years. they know the value of their vote. really fascinating.race as a thank you for joining us with that analysis. turkey again is a major u.s. ally and what happens there will be really interesting, particularly in this era of the strong man authoritarian leader. that is it for our program tonight. thanks for watching amanpour on pbs and join us again tomorrow night. ♪ ♪

katty: you are watching "beyond 100 days." the president backs down on separating immigrant families but not on his hard-line approach. christian: he complains that democrats have let aliens of kids into the united states illegally. katty: mr. trump has changed his policy but is not happy about it, complaining about how much is administration has to say to look after these children. for the softer image, melania trump makes a surprise visit to the texas border. >> they are here without their families. i want to thank you for all your heart, your compassion, and your kindness. katty: europeans living in britain get an answer to their post b