♪ tonight on kqed newsroom, president trump agreed to end the practice that separated thousands of immigrant children from their families at the border. but big questions and legal challenges remain. we get reaction from san jose congresswoman zoe lofgren. she's co-authored a bi protect immigrant families. plus a new documentary reveals the toll factory farming takesnm on the envit and human health. hello and welcome to "kqed newsroom." i'm thuy vu. we begin with immigration. on wednesday president trump signedec an eive order ending the practice of separating immigrant children from thesr famit the border. the new order would allow families to be detained together. in april attorney general jeff sessions announced a, quote, zeroolerance policy to criminally prosecute all illegal ose er crossings even for

traveling with children and claiming asiel ing ing asielum. since then more than 2300 immigrant children have been separated from their parents and held in government-run shelters. backlash to the practice has been intense among both republicans and democrats. on monday during a press briefing department of homeland security chief kirstjen nielsen pushed back. she blamed congress for the separation and said that et nted children were well taken care . joining me now is discuss this is san jose congresswoman zoe lofgren. she joins me via skype from washington, d.c. congresswoman, nice to have you with us. >> good to be here. >> the pentagon is n saying it's preparing to house as many as 20,000 migrantn children four american military bases in texas and in arkansas. are you getting any detailsw on would be housed there, for ofxample, would the parent the children also be there? >> no, they've shared no information with me, which is alarming since i am the senior democrat on the immigration subcommittee and we have

jurisdiction over this issue. >> what do you think, though, about that prospect, of having these migrant family camps housingeots ofle on military bases? >> i think it's a terrible idea and it's completely if someone comes to the united states and seeks asylum that's permitted under americanlaw, you need to administer the law inn orderlyfashion. u'll need you don't need to lock people up in order to have them show up at their immigration hecting. in f we had a program in existence during the obama administration called the family case management program where 100% of e families in the case management program showed up to their hearing. and then when they do they either prevai in which case they get asylum, or they don't prevail, in which case they have to leave. >> what have you you been feeling personally as you look at the ima as of childr

centerss in detention krer have you had a chance to see the audio tape of children crying? >> it's just so upsetting. you can't look at this an lis this and not think abt how your own children were that age. and i have grandchildren. how i -- i just identifytith wwould happen to them. it's so -- i've had members tell me they're having a hard time sleeping and living with really thisrauma has be inflicted on thousands of children. this is not the american way. this is not the count that i aow and love. i am soamed of what our government is doing. >> what do you think is the intent of the trump io administr then, by separating these families in the first place by having this so-called zero tolerance policy on prosecuting people who cross the border? >> i take them at their work.

john kelly, the chief of staff, indicated that the intent was to deter others from coming to the united states to seek asylum, which is the right under american immigration law andls their right under treaties that we have ratified. so that's an impermissible reason, but it is apparently the reason. >> and congresswoman lofgren, there are also conflibing reportst whether the border patrol will stop sending immigration cases to the justice department for prosecution in order to comply with the presint's latest executive order. can you clarify any of that? is there indeed a halt to criprnal ecutions? >> well, i wish i cowed. received the same press reports you did, that the prosecutions would be halted. then the administration stepped forward to say that was incorrect. but we are getting reports from courtrooms across the united states tha dtheartment of justice is cadismissings en

masse. so i don't know the answers. i do ink it's unprecedented to prosecute a misdemeanor in each and ery case. it's never happened with any president. republican or democrat. and it will overwhelm the system comepletely. >> shave argued, though, including president trump, that as heartbreaking as these scenes re of families being separated, the u.s. is a nation of laws and th t there should be consequences for those who break the law by entering this country illegally. what would you say to people who feel that way? >> we are a nation of laws. anstwe ought to skrin admi them in an orderly fashion. if you enter the united states, make a plea for asylum a the law provides, th should be reviewed and a judge will make a decision, and if you prevail you'll get asylum. if you don't, you'll have to leave. if you don't make a claim for asylum and merely enter without

permission, you're going to be sent back across the border. that's nothing new. so what is new ishe president trying to terrorize small children and create chaos at the border. that is unfortunate. >> have you asked will you ask to visit the detention centers where the childrenb are ng held or where the mothers are being held? >> absolutely. a number of members of congress are going on monday. other members went last weekend. unfortunately, i think this trump-created crisis is going to be with us for a while, and i intend and many other members of congress intend to go and see with our own eyes how the children are being treated. >> house republican leaders have delayed untilxt week a vote on a bill that would not only fund a border wall, provide a pathor to citizenship dreamers, but also keep migrant families together. where do you stand on that bill?

>> well, the bill is really much worse than you just described. it would repeal existing areas of law that allow families to -- american families to be reunited with their sons and daughters. it would create long-term detentions for immgrant families. and i don't think the solution s to the crisio throw the mother in the cage with the toddler and to throw away the key. and for the dreamers it provides such an attenuated process. if you were 27 years old and a dreamer, you'd be 55 years old before you were able to get your u.s. citizenship. think that's absurd. >> congresswoman zoe lofgren, thank you for joining us from washington, d.c. >> you bet. >> as you just heard congress mom lofgren say, many questions remain about the president's executive order to stop separating families at the border. itses unclear if t separated

will be reunited and if so when. the president's order also c ls findefinite detention. but that contradicts a 1997 federal court settlement barring children from being detaedfor more than 40 days. meanwhile, advocates have been raising concerns about the damaging effects of forced separation on children. the president of the american academy of pediatrics said conditions in detention facilities are, quote, traumatizing and that detention exist. and joining me now for a deeper look at these sues a julian aguilar, immigration and border security reporter with the "texas tribune." he joins us via skype from xas. also attorney spencer ander with the aclu immigrant rprhts ject. and chandra gauche ippin, child psychologist and director of the child trauma research program at ucsf. welcome to all of you. chandra, i'd like to begin with you. chologist, what are your concerns about separating children from their parents in this manner? >> so i want to take us all to that moment when that child is crying on the tape and think

about how hard it is -- >> the propublica tape you're talking about. >> mm-hmm. and how hard it is for us t listen tot. then take those sounds and imagine that they continue. they continue for way longer than seven minutes. and they're inside this child. and you'll feel that child's sense of alarm ander deion. and you'll see that there is nobody who is able to comfort this child. and let's all think about the long-term damage that does to that child. there's the short-term damage and then there's the long-term damagein terms of fears that other people will leave them .ven after they're reunited with their loved on in terms of symptoms of ptsd, depression, asanxiety. hey grow older, even as they're parents worrying that their ow children might be separated from them. this is long-term damage, and this is something that we've we did work with one child who was separated at the border because when he arrived at theo er he had spiked a high fever. and so immigration wouldn't let. he was sent -- and this is one of the best possible things.hi grandmother came to lovingly take care of him. he experienced symptoms for years after that.y, actuahat's why his parents

ended up coming. because he didn't understand why would you leave me? so i this moment when you're so stressed out you most want your parent there. and if you're very little you don't understand why they can't be there. also, if you've seen scenes of people like border police saying no, you can't be there, then they've really kind of showed you in some ways that your parent is not worthy of respect, that your maybe you've seen something even worse. and you're left alone stranded all by themselves deal with those memories. >> and do those memories and the trnma cause regress later on? do they stop speaking, for example? >> it can. ithink really depends what follows. so what you would really want is for the child to have loving adults.? rig because children can recover with the help of loving adults who help them make meaning. if, however, the grown-ups are traumatized, if there are no grown-ups, if nobodyeally sits with the child and says it makes sense that you're scared, that you've been throu this. d what we see is like children communicate through play. p they'll jusy scenes out where they'll put a child out all by themselves, stranded and

they're sort of saying why did this happen, why did you leave me alone? and to the degree that a grownup can heln them torstand then they can recover. but otherwise, it would be really normal forhem to have sleep problems, for them to have difficulty concentrating. saand they often would oh, this child can't focus. but what we'd say really is o they're focusi danger. right? they're focusing on the fact that this could happen. they're worried that you could leave them at any moment. so we'd seeen heig separation anxiety. and the long term without help we'd see depression, we would see continued symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, recurrent fears. and we could seen ee we could imagine as they're aging, as they're growing, and one day they become parents, loving parents tie child. well, it would make sense that even as parents they would worry bad things could happen. they would think wow, when i was this child's age i was not with my parents. >> spencer, take us through what happens at these ports of entry at the border. what ie process that kids go through when they're separated fromntheir pa

>> yeah. so when kids have been separated over the last f weeks and months they're typically shipped across the country veryquickly. so we're seeing parents who come in. they sit in r detention cen for a day, two days, three days with their child. and then border guards come in sometimes in the middle of the night. sometimes they'll tell the parent i'm just going to take your kid to get a bath, they'll be rightback. and then only hours later does it become clear that theild actually isn't coming back. they've left. and so children are being taken, you know, to chicago, to washington ostate, new york state, and they're put in detentcan centers specifly for children. >> and the parents have no idea where they are. are they told where they're going? >> t we're hearing that there are hundreds and hundreds of parents who have no idea where their childaen . i think that's really important to emphasize now that we're in a place where we have these 2,000

children to reunite with their parents is that the trump administrationra sed these children so carelessly that the parents have no idea where they are but sometimes the government doesn't even have any idea where the kid is and who their parent is. >> julian, iant to bring you in at this point. you've interviewed families who have been separated. are there some commonalities you're seeing as to why they're leaviir home countries and their experiences once they're separated? >> the majority of them tell us that they' leaving because of violence, whether they're from michoacan in mexico, whether from honduras or el salvador. that's the common theme, that kingss were too horrible, they didn't feel like police were able to protect them, so they came to the united states. >> we're now getting into this legal realm where president ump is trying to get a judge to modify an order that says basically children who are kept in detention cannot be kept for more than 20 days. the obama admialstration enged that, tried to get it

modified, 2016. hae judge said no. what are thees the judge would take a different stand this time around? >> i think what's important to underscore first ofis that there's no law that actually compels family separation. so even when this was litigated under the obama administration parents weren't being routinely separated from their kids. and that's because there's a very easy way to comply with thisrt pre-existing c order when a family comes together, which is to let them apply for asylum from the outside. they don't have to be detained while they pursue their asylum applications. and in fact, it perfectly legal to come here and apply for asylum. so that's one thing to say.hi the other to say is thatg nothout the court's order forces the government to inflict this terrible trauma on children. the whe point of the flores settlement is to potect children from bad conditions of

confinement and to make sure that they can be with tir families and they can be safe. and so in a situation where for whatever reason they absolutely can't be released or they can't be released yet nothing about the flores settlement compels family separation. >> and so chandra, i'm also curious. there have been reports that as these families are detained, children are detained border patrol agents and other personnel aei apparentlyng told not to try to consolehe children. why would that be the case? >> i think what they can think about ised people are worf being accused perhaps of molesting the children. and that unfortunately what we all know is what children need, especially young children, is physi in particular from their loved ones. so hang a stranger comfort y may actually not be comforting. but if you do gain the trust of the cildren and you cabe in a place where you're in public, where it makes sense, being able to just touch someone simply being age to say that we're looking for your parent, to

provide some reassurance, vocal tone, a little 'shug, th really what's going to help the children to feel like we care, to feel safe again. and also to help them neurobiological level. what we're hearing is some children are being medicated. and to think about is that an alternative to human touch? which one is really more damaging? and again, though, what we would say is really the number one intervention would be to connect them to their >> and julian, i'm also curious, on the texas border towns that you've been visiting what has been the reaction? is there sympathy for the migrant families? or arey people simaying you know, what they broke the law and this is what needs to happen? you bring up a question that i think has been passed around for years, and i th ak it's not even split. you have a lot of folks that say hey, there's a legalss and i'm sorry but look at what central americans and they use examples of what happens in other countries when immigration laws, even if they're just civil infractions,

are violated. but i think in this case there's been just a temendous outpouring of support that sort of overwhelmed the negative. we set uptt story that had links to where people can go and donate whatever it is that they can. legaservices. anhat's been the most viewed or clicked on site for the last three or four days. you have people e-mailing reporters, calling reporters saying i read thiant to help, i'll get down to texas as soon as i can. so i think that is, for the peoplebehat have really affected by this in a negative way, that's sort of the glass half full situation there. and spencer, know the aclu has filed a lawsuit asking a judge to bar the trump administration from separating families. how does this new executive order affect your lawsuit? >> so the lawsuit is still going forward because there are now over 2,000 childrenho are stranded in detention centers bs themselaway from their

parents. so what we've asked the judge to do is to expand the lawsu to a nationwide class action and to order the government to reunify all these parents with their children. the judge hasn't ruled on that request yet. but he did rule about two weeks ago that to separate children from their parents in the circumstances of our clients i sea said it tears at the sacred nd between parent andchild. he made clear this is legal and we actually have a conference with him later today in which we're going to discuss wh the next stage in the case is now that the executive order has come down.a, >> chan i know you have written books for kids to help traumatic ith disasters such as earthquakes, wildfires. if you were now torite another children's book for these children in theseigrant detention centers, what would

you say to the >>children? have started a book. it's called "we have one world." and it would be a free coloring book for kids. and it's really the ideaur of world and countries, what's a border, why people cross it, kind of the beauty of their story. and really helping parents and children to connect. think the challengat i'm having is when i've written the other disaster books i've been able to say things like the ctown-ups are there, the grown-ups are proe, the grown-ups are coming together, we're all pulling for you, that we be the children are the most important special thing, that it's our responsibility. and right now i haven't been able to write the ending becayse i can't that. and that's the hardest thing-s that in a natural disasr we pull together and we support all the children. and this is a manmade disaster. and we haven't done that yet. and that's what i think we're all here fighting for. >> okay. i see the heartbreak on your face as you talk about this. i wanted to thank you all for your time. julian aguilar with the "texas tribune,thank you for joining us. and also spencer ander with the

aclu and chandra ghosh-ippin, chi psychologist. it's been nice to have all of you here. thank you. >> thank you. a new documentary offers a sobering look at factory er farming, animals live in cramped conditions and are gumped with antibiotics to grow quiley and uniformly. a group of farmers is fighting this trend to raise livestock nor sustainably and humanely. reviving so-called herltage breeds of chickenand pigs. joining me now are director and producer christopher quinn and the founder of good chef or foultry ranch. good to have youboth. >> thank you. >> do you have a problem with weating meat or is it jure that meat comes from and how the animals are raised? >> well, one of the things i learned making this fi is that commodity birds, or birds that come from factory farming are hybridized in such a way that their growth is so acceleted that they ultimately, you know,

are ready to go to marketshn 30 t days or so. so they're o-engineered from the time they are born to the time they go to market, it's just 30 days? >> yeah. sought issue i have is also tt these animals from the waking moment that they're born, they're suffering mightily because they've been hibernized to grow at such an accelerated rate.fr >> k, what are are your thoughts on that? >> this is the real welfare iss to me to me 90% of all suffering, turkeys, chickens, hs, whatever, has to do with not so much how they're raised, that is important, but it's what we have done tohe animals to increase productivity. we have increased their rate of growth so much that we have changed their skeletal structure, thve we changed their muscle structure, to the point when you select for ese certain characteristics it affects other things. and so i just can't s type of farming. >> what are your thoughts on how the meat and poultry industry

have changed over the past several decades in this country? >> well, i'm old enough to have seen it happen. i've watched it move from being an independent farm situation in which hundreds and thousands of individual farmers raise hickens and turkeys and sold sxegz sold pigs and brought them to their local o'market wheret now j two companies in the whole world control it all. >> your documentary spends quite a bit of time talking about the environment.e can you talk about that? >> sure. yeah, raising our food, it's one the leading causes of greenhouse gases and you know, the methane that comes from raising cattle and it's enormo o and it's o the top two contributors to global warming. that's another reason i've scaled back on t eating meato. is when you start to see the impact on the environment, which is enormouy significant, and in 50 years we'll be up to 9

billion people on planet, and if we continue to consume meet on the level and if south asia and east asia start to adopt the so-called western diet we're going to find ourselves in real trouble. >> how are your practicere dif from factory farming? >> i actually own all my own genetics. i own the parents, the grandparents. i collect the eggs. i set the eggs. and i hatch the eggs. and i raisehe turkeys. same way withhe hickens. so this is very different than the industrial model. >> and do they taste different from the mass produced turkey? >> yes. i'vheard this from everybody. even some of the food scientists from the university of arkansas or from kansas university that have done research who have actually said there's ateirect tadifference. and it's a combination of thebi gest thing to me of course is the genetics and how that meat is laid down genetically and slowly in a natural animal. the other is the environment. my birds can run, jum.

and fly and are free to doso. >> so given the system isithat it is, iealistic to expect that a lot of people can give up the cheaper meats that are factory farmed? because you will get into this issue of poorer communities can't afford to pay more for their food. >> you know, when you actuly look at burger, for instance, a so-called inexpensive meat a thybody can afford, that 99-cent burger actually whenou externalize the cost with subsidies and health care because this is a diet that's not very go for you, thatla burger justs south of $100. in a way we're all paying for it. >>he reason it costs more is i don't own the whole system. i don't own the processing plant. i don't own the he'd companies. i don't own the shipping and the trucking andrefrigeration. that's where all the cost is. >> and ristopher, early in your film you focus a lot on colonel sanders and kentucky fried chicken.

what role din kfs pla transforming the meat industry in this country? >> this is really the beginning of us wanting cheap a efficient food. and that really took hold in the 's and really took shape in the '70s. and that came with a price. and we slowly changed our food system to a place where we have mass-produced chicken that might be inexpensive but in a lot of llys it's really a costly endeavor forf us. >> so why do you think this film is needed now? what has chanked that you th is critical for this film to be out now? >> people are donating the western diet. fast food is becoming more readily available in india and . chi and this is a big concern when you think of the billions of people that live there. and this is going to have a real effect on our environment. it's really up to us to make the de gsion of how we'ring to eat and how we're going to make our way into the future.

and scaling back on cheap co aodity meat seems to b solution that we all have to start to address. >> and frank, what wou p you likple to know about the meat and poultry that they do consume? >> you know, it'sd eally har for me because i hate to tell anybody what they can do or can't do. about certaincare things and you wish to try to buy withoutry tha higher in nutrition or that is betternv f theronment or better for the animal, then seek out the best you can. y eferably that which has been certifiede american poultry association as being trulyta he or standard bred poultry. then you'll know you're getting the best of all of these things. but this -- you know, i's so new and it's just getting started and we're hing to grow at it's not available for a lot of places. >> all right. thank you very much for that. frank reese with good shepherd turkey ranch in kansas and also filmmaker christopher quinn. nice to have you both here. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. eating animals opens in bay

area theaters this weekend. and that will do it for as always, you can find more of our coverage at kqed.org/newsroom. i'm thuy vu. thank you f joining us. ♪ ♪

>> a crisis at the border and in washington. i'm robertos. we discuss president trump's zero tolerance immigtion policy and its cost both political and human. tonight on "washington week." president trump: we're going to keep families together but the border is going to be just as tough as it's been.e] [app >> president trump insists the administration's hard line immigration stance remains but does an about face on his policy of separating children from parents who enter the country illegally. amid the firestorm, the president blames democrats. president trump: democrats don't care about the impact of uncontrolled migration on your counities, your schools, your hospitals, your jobs, or y