welcome to amanpour on pbs. tonight, from the united states to europe, official immigration strategy causes chaos and confusion. legal expert, jeffrey toobin, joins me from new york, along with the german mep and ally, angela merkel joins me from brussels. plus, joy for women at the wheel in saudi arabia, as the country finally lifts its ban. and worry also about the long road ahead for full equal rights. the saudi princess joins me from los angeles.

>> good evening, everyone. welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour in london. stranded by politics, stranded by anti-migrant fervor in america and europe, those hoping for a better life are in limbo. at the u.s.-mexico border the trump administration's plan remains vague when it comes to reuniting migrant children with their parents. the president now says migrants should not be afforded due process. while in europe, two vessels carrying hundreds of migrants are adrift in the mediterranean, a graphic symbol of we don't want you and the power of populism threatening the leadership of the german chancellor, angela merkel and threatens rule of law and human rights in the united states. to drill down into these fraud issues, i'm joined by guests from both sides of the atlantic. from brussels, man fred weber, a

close ally of angela merkel and member of parliament and from new york, jeffrey toobin, cnn's legal analyst. jeffrey, let me first turn to you and ask you about the president's latest comments on the idea migrants do not deserve due process. let me read one of the tweets. we cannot allow all these people to invade our country. when somebody comes in we mutt immediately with no judges or court cases immediately send them back where they come from. our system is a mock country of the court cases and most children come without parents. how big a deal is this latest intervention? >> again, as is so often with president trump, it's hard to know exactly what he means. the current law in the united states does allow in certain circumstances for illegal migrants to be turned without a trial, to be returned immediately.

in many circumstances they do have certain rights to due process of law under our constitution and under our laws. how he would change the system remains mysterious, but everything moves in the direction of a more harsh policy towards migrants, faster return, less procedure, and of course more separation in reality between parents and children. >> just before i turn to manfred, in europe, people invest sells are being turned away. many americans say what's wrong with trump's logic, why not if we're keen to keep parents and children together, turn them around before they even get to the united states? >> that is certainly -- >> from the european perspective. >> sorry. i will let jeffrey answer the american part of this and then i'm coming to you. >> that is certainly.

>> that is what the supporters say. there are two categories of migrants, people who jump across the border illegally and other people come to immigration points and say we have a fear of violence, prosecution in our home country, we want asylum. those people traditionally have gotten due process of law, including when they bring children with them. the big clahange the president would bring, if he's successful would be turning away those people including those across the border. >> manfred weber, it is horrifying seeing several ships loaded to the busting point with migrants adrift essentially. we had that horrendous situation that led to spain being the only port of call for one of the ships and there are now two

more. how -- just describe to us the politics of not letting people dock at the moment. >> our problem is military sees we have the business model in practice. that is what we have to answer. that means for us that if we want to do the same, like we agreed already like between europe and turkey, in the area there, send immediately those back home who arrived on european soil, on the other hand, that's very important for europe to combine a strict and strong border protection, a strong and ambitious resettlement program. we promised to turkey and our friends in north africa we are ready as europeans to protect those really fleeing from civil wars, for example like syria. that is important for us, combine two things, stop the business model and still ready to receive those who are really

fleeing from civil war regions. >> let me put this to you. i said this is all threatening to topple angela merkel's government. you have her coalition partner basically disagreeing with her and her open door policy. you even have president trump all the way from his own problems at the u.s.-mexico border, tweeting against your chancellor saying your people are -- and crime is way up and allowing millions of people who have so strongly and violently changed their culture. he goes on to say crime is up 10%, et cetera, et cetera and government officials don't want to admit those figures. with friends like that, mr. weber, how are you going to devise a policy? >> well, it's an intensive discussion, absolutely, all over

the world. globalization has migration challenges ahead of us. one thing i want to clarify, there is no increase of any kind of crime in germany. at this point trump is wrong tweeting this. generally speaking again, what we tried to do in europe and what angela merkel is standing for is to combine two points, strict border control, ambitious approach and to be still ready to respect the humanitarian faith of this continent. we want to be ready as europeans, as an economically strong christian-based continent and migrants looking for a better life. i respect that. that is not refugee, not somebody fleeing from the civil war. that separation is needed. asylum seekers, refugees from

civil war and illegal migrants. for illegal migrants, there is only one way possible, to go back home to your people of origin. >> for people like yourself and for jeffrey of the united states, we can see that the polls show that president trump's popularity remains pretty much even. it's not dented or changed much due to this crisis. so, i want to ask you first and then manfred weber about the politics of these policies. jeffrey, what's at stake for president trump even though he's made a u-turn on this issue? >> i have to say i'm not sure we know fully what the politics are of this particular chapter. people in the news media have been predicting the fall of donald trump since the beginning of his presidential campaign and we've always been wrong. it is also true that this is a somewhat different situation than many of his other

controversies, because there are photographs, there is video of children. if you look at polls about this issue, it does seem like the president is very much in the minority in his view of how it should be handle. but it is also true that the president has kept the support of his base. it is not a majority of the united states, it's not a majority of voters, but approximately 40% of the american public remains steadfast in support of president trump, and that seems very likely to remain in tact e regardless how disturbing these images are from the border. >> from your perspective, manfred weber, you've been in brussels to try to find a worldwide solution and chancela merkel had to concede it's not possible. she had been trying for years to get the members of the eu to

share responsibility. she hasn't managed. now, she's under threat and you have populists in your country and populist leaders in italy, hungry, poland, slavenia, maybe others in the next population. >> the open conflict between the european members on this question on this challenge of the migration roots, if you can close it, it would be a great thing and fight against populists. last sunday, there were 16 european union members met, was a good starting point. angela merkel managed to come in agreement and be tough on border control, increase european strengths and capacity to protect the diagnose forces protect the additional forces on

the border, a good move and see where the european members meet in agreement on solidarity. italy for example feels alone in this scenario. they are on the borders, on the mediterranean sea. they don't feel protected or assisted by the other european colleagues. that's why one thing is border control and the other is solidarity in europe. we have a legislation law taking in place guaranteed uncompany minors compared to the american discussion, uncompanied minors, children cannot be sent back home because they have no place to go. that's why we want to protect children. that is again a signal of the humanitarian face of the european union. >> a signal of the humanitarian face of the eu, to you, i put to you, jeffrey, there seems to be mass confusion in different departments of the united states.

first separation of families, children in detention, outcry from the public, then that was reversed. there's all sorts of different -- we don't even know how they're going to resolve the idea of for instance, what the border control says. stop prosecuting parents who cross the border illegally with their children but attorney general jeff sessions said today the opposite. listen to him. >> we're going to continue to prosecute those adults who enter here illegally. we are going to do everything in our power, however, to avoid separating families. all federal agencies are working hard to accomplish this goal. >> so how do they -- they confused those different agencies. they seem to be two competing instructions, jeffrey. >> they are confused because it is confusing. there have been contradictory orders from the top.

the one thing we know for sure there are approximately 2,300 children, who have been separated from their parents, and they have not yet been reunited. they are, it appears, spread all over the country, and as you heard from attorney general sessions, that number may well rise even though the official policy of the united states, as announced by the president last week is there will be no more family separations. if you start arresting everyone at the border and some of these immigrants across the border are with children you have to decide what to do with the children and what to do with the adults. the law now is you can't hold children longer than 20 days with their parents. what happens after 20 days? that remain as complete mystery, as does the fate of the 2300 children separated already. >> honestly, it really is an object lesson in -- i don't know, i really don't know. what i do know is a lot of the

facts seem to be misused. a lot of fake facts used by the u.s. government, the trump administration, and also by the populists in europe. manfred weber, we already discussed the numbers, not as great as the leaders say. in fact, in europe, the numbers of migrants arriving have fallen sharply compared to previous years and the international organization for migration says many many less, 80% fewer arrivals between january and may this year than the same period of last year. is it a story of politics getting all messed up by the politics of it and unable to actually put the correct narrative forward, manfred. >> you're right. politics talk much more than they did in the past about our success stories. the numbers you mentioned are

correct. we reduced the number of migrants dramatically in the past two or three years but i have to say management is not operating in a proper way and we have the open question. it's not first about numbers, first, about clarity, whether somebody arriving in italy is really a refugee or whether he's a legal migrant. we have to implement the legal situation on our border in practical terms. if somebody is an illegal migrant, he has to be refused, has to be rejected, he has to go back home. if he is a refugee from syria, he can be accepted. i'm sure the people in europe, you can guarantee a state that those arriving here were really refugees and asylum seekers, fleeing from the bombs of syria, a lot of people are ready to

help those people. that is what is at stake in the european numbery not the numbers, the separation about the different criterias. >> there's a very similar dispute going on in the united states between the people who are economic migrants, just coming to try to improve themselves, who under united states law, should be returned to their country of origin and people refugees fleeing from prosecution, usually somewhere in central america. the problem is it's very hard to determine who's who. the system is not very well situated and very much underfunded and understaffed in the ability to determine who's who, which create as lot of the problems and delays that make everything about this story worse. >> indeed. also, the context in the united states is no immigration reform and no new policy. that's a story for another day.

jeffrey toobin and manfred weber, thank you for joining me from new york and brussels. now, this weekend, the women of saudi arabia were allowed to sit behind the wheel. that is right. adult women, who have now, in 2018, been finally granted the right to drive around their own country. this is for the very first time. many triumphantly did get into their cars at the stroke of midnight, too eager and excited to wait for daylight, just in case you're wondering how hard this was to achieve in the devoutly muslim kingdom, a prominent saudi preacher has been arguing women should not drive because their brains are half the size of men's, as, of course, we all know and some men said they would stay home to avoid women causing traffic accidents on sunday. as far as we know there weren't a spike in traffic accidents. the saudi crown prince salman made this one of his performance

agendas and princess al saud said the following at davos this year. >> we're not doing gender equality or neutrality or any other secondary word you'd like to put to that statement because the west wants it, it will target human rights, get them off or backs, amnesty international will say, great, good job, you. we're doing it, because a, it's the right thing to do. >> princess joins me now. welcome to the program. >> how are you? >> how excited are you and the friends in saudi arabia can do this now for the very first time? >> i'm wonderfully excited. i'm excited for everybody that actually stayed up and got in the car at midnight to take this drive. the symbolism is we're taking control but taking it collectively. that isn't an anomaly. this is our current state and

future state. this isn't something you go back from. >> you live in los angeles or at least you spend a lot of time there. you know you could get into a car at any time of the day or night for years and years. you must have had a sort of disconnect psychologically for years knowing you couldn't do that wen you got home? >> christiane, actually i live in saudi arabia and we're looking to expand the participation of our community in water sports. i actually live in riyab and have been there for years. to experience what i experienced in my home country to experience what i grew up in the states, movies, socializing, mobility, those are monumental shifts,

yes, obviously, we would have liked to seen sooner, the fact we're doing it today is wonderful because conversations are so old and so tired for us. we have so many things we as women would like to focus in the country to not talk about the women's driving and be active opponen opponents is a relief and onus is on us for the growth and inclusion of women in our community. >> let's talk about that. one step forward and everybody wants to make giant leaps, as you can imagine, that's the human nature. you get a freedom and want to take all your freedoms. obviously, women in saudi arabia have been longing for this for a long long time. first and foremost, how in the

run-up to the date, which was sunday to allow women to drive? >> regarding the politics behind it, to be honest, i have to defer you to the general prosecutor. from my understanding, my understanding is just what's publicly available because it's not within my wheelhouse. however, it was matter of national security, yes, several individuals were arrested, the majority were released. from my understanding, only four are under questioning currently. as to the details of that -- to be honest with you -- i know a lot of the families of the spect for them until somethingf early comes out, i'd rather not give a personal opinion or commentary on something i actually don't have the full information on. i respect their families too much. >> absolutely. > can see your point of view of a lot of people ask me, is this schizophrenic? are you really moving forward?

is this real? what i have to tell you is, i work in the sports authority. i've been there since 2016. the monumental leaps we have taken from 2016 until today, we went from a community saying, no, do not participate in sports to women entering the stadiums, to traveling the world with young female athletes. that's just in my small sector. that's sports. what you see as this constant change, i would tell you today, we're operating in agile, piloting and reiterating and reiterating. if the path we're going on does not seem to be the one to take us to a long term sustainable solution, we will shift and shift repeatedly. one of the things i appreciate about the crown prince, he will give the directive and say, go do. if you come back and say, i'm doing however, i will not get to where i need to go, may i please reiterate? can i shift to make this better? he will say if the numbers and plan makes sense, go do it. honestly, for me, that's a

relief to work in. >> i'm sure. nobody is minimizing this moment. it does put women hopefully on the path to even more gains. let me ask you because everybody has been asking about the fundamental status of women in saudi arabia, that is, they're considered minors for all intents and purposesy this guardianship law where they can barely put a foot in front of the other without some male authorizing them. let me summarize what i was told a while back from one of the early activists on the driving and she said the following. >> the government, until this day, did not name an age when i become an adult. i'm a minor from the time i'm born until the time i die. as i said, this men project ejue as women are looked at as objects and obedience and whatever rules they impose on us

and not question them. >> princess, do you think is there the band width, the political band width in saudi arabia to address that fundamental issue? then, of course, there's inheritance rights and all of the other? >> yes. honestly, it is a critical conversation to had and a conversation being had in the consultative council, almost daily, this is a topic of conversation. as a divorced mother of two, this is urgent for me. this is urgent because right now i actually do have a family that will allow me to be mobile and dynamic. that's not the reality of a lot of women. until it's the reality of a lot of women we need to keep pushing forward with that conversation. is it going to happen today? i couldn't tell you. would i like to see it in the near future? absolutely. as a woman in government, my role is to keep highlighting issues that help us move forward holistically, not just an elite community or small community, for national interests. part of the changes you see

happening today, everybody says, is there even a strategy? of course there's a strategy and the strategy is based on pure economics. the economics say you can't have 50% of your community not participating. the economics say when 50% of your community and specifically women are involved in business and in trade and in the economic values, you actually have a better economy. i need women working. you're looking at driving by the way, as the tip of an iceberg, issue of mobility. it's more than that, job creation, allowing the woman to behave as a professional and get to work on time and she can operate independently. and, yes, i would like to see changes in guardianship. however, today i read a lot of the press. a woman does not need a man's permission to drive, does not need a man's permission to go to work, does not need a man's permission to have a job. the last bastion of guardianship is travel and marriage, and even

marriage, if you look at islamic law, after a certain age, it's actually quite loose. i'm not minimizing this. this is a critical issue. what i can tell you is every woman i know is having this conversation. the women in government are having this conversation. the timeline of the changes i'm not in control of. the dialogue and narrative, it's there. >> we will look forward to continuing this conversation. this certainly is a great first step and we look forward to see more of it. princess, thank you so much for joining us from los angeles. one small step that women like the princess are looking for giant leaps ahead. thanks for watching. i'm christiane amanpour on pbs. join us for more tomorrow night.

♪ christian: you are watching "beyond 100 days." donald trump makes the case for illegally deporting illegal immigrants who invade his country without a court hearing. katty: despite the fact that it runs against international norms, but it goes against his party in congress which is legislating for more judges. christian: it is not clear what donald trump wants. what is clear is that a zero-tolerance approach is popular with republican voters. not so much with democrats. press secretary sarah huckabee sanders is the latest to be forced out of a restaurant because the owners