captioni sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> nawaz: good evening, i'm amna nawaz. judy woodruff is away. on the newshour tonight, the swing vote steps down: supreme court justice anthony kennedy announces his retirement.s what tuld mean for the future of the court. then, the clock starts ticking-- a federal judge orders the white house to reunite immigrant families within 30 days. k what's stiping children and their parents apart. and, ancient manuscr saved from al qaeda's grasp. can timbuktu's literary treasures now be preserved for generations to come? >> ( translated ): the occupation took us by surprise, so people started to fd ways of hiding their manuscripts, before leaving. when everyone returned then it was time to find them. >> nawaz: l that and more on tonight's pbs newshour.

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more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing suppt of these institutions: s >> togram was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> nawaz: shakeup at the u.s. supreme court. justice anthony kennedy announced today that he's calli it a career. he's spent 30 years on the court, and long been a swing vote that decided key cases. now, his retirement could trigger an all-out, election- year war over a successor. the news came hourafter the court wrapped up its latest term. justice keedy wrote to president trump that it had been "the greatest honor and privilege" to serve. the president reacted almost immediately, during a meing with the president of portugal. >> he will be retiring, we will

begin our search for a new justice of the united states supreme court, that will begin immediately. >> nawaz: anthony kennedy was a federal appeals judge when president reagan nominated him to the supreme court in 1987. the senate had rejected the president's first pick, robert bork, in a famously bruising confirmation fight. the second choice, douglas ginsberg, withdrew after admittin a younger man.uana as kennedy had a relatively easy confirmation process. >> the whole lesson of our constitutial experience has been that a people can riseab e its own injustice, the people can rise about the inequities that prevailed at particular time. >> nawaz: in the end, he sailed worough the senate by a vote of 97 to 0, and was in on february 18th, 1988.

conservatives often counted on his vote. he was in the 5 to 4 majority that gave the 2000 presidential election to george w. bush. in "citizens united" from 2010, he supported loosening campaign spending restrictions on corporations. later, he voted to strike down key provisions of the voting rights act. and just yesterday, he sided with the majority upholding president trump's travel ban. but kennedy also shifted sides at times. in 1992, he voted to uphold the right to abortion. he backed affirmative action in a case from texas in 2016. and in the landmark 2015 case obergefell vs. hodges, kennedy authored a sweeping majority opinion in favor of same-sex couples' right to mar y: "they ask ual dignity in the eyes of the law," he wrote. "the cstitution grants them that right." idf the bench, kennedy's passion

for the law was t. in 2007 he staged a trial for shakespeare's hamlet at thece kenneder. >> we, the members of the jury, in the above entitled cause, are t unanimous. >> nawaz: he spoke to newshour's jeffrey brown, and, shed some light on his own dec making. >> humans are fallible. we tend to err. but law and literature both show us ways in whichane can progress mend our ways. >> nawaz: now, justice kennedy's retirement gives the president a chance to nominate another conservative, having already placed neil gorsuch on the bench. and, that sets the state for a senate battle royale. majority leader mitch mcconnell today promised speedy action. >> senate stands ready to fulfill constitutional role by offering advice and consent for trumps nominee. will vote and confirm this fall. >> nawaz: minority leader chuck

schumer demanded that any nomination wait until after mie term elections in november. >> our repubshcan colleagues ld follow the rule they set in 2016 not to consider a risupreme court justice dung election year. anything but that would be the syabsolute height of hypoc >> nawaz: the president says he willick a nominee from a lis of 25 conservative jleges. marcia cf the "national law journal" has covered the high court ever since justice kennedy joined the bench, and joins me now.ei thanks for here, marcia. t >> hape here. >> nawaz: just off the bad, your reaction to today's news. >> the retirement of justice kennedy has been rumored since a year ago, and i think there was a sense that, if do it, it would be this year. he gave, as a reason, he wants w more tih his family. he is a republican appointee, and perhaps he wanted it to be

under a republican president. so i think many of us -- but not me -- many of us relaxed after the chief justice gaveled in the morning session and there were no announcements from the bench of a justice retiring, bu i did remember that thurgood marshalli d from the court about mid afternoon on the last day of the term, so i was not relaxing yet. nawaz: and not very htrprised, sounds like. >> r >> nawaz: you knew it might come. he was known as a centrist conservafave. is that assessment? and what does that mean? >> i think so, especially on a court that had conservatives that were very staunch conservatives. he hated being called the swing justice. he often said, i just enupd where i end up. he was a conservative, a solid conservative, but he has a libertarian streak, and if you look at his decisions overth years, especially in the mostia

controveones that he moved left in terms of a victory there, his jurisprudence is really animated by two things, his strong belief in the dignity of the individual, as well as in the concept of liberty that the 14th amendments due process clause guaranteesish and you see that, i think, most dramatically si the de he wrote, allowing or upholding the right of same-sex couples to marry. >> you mentioned the same-sex marriage decision there. he has weighed in and made a difference on some of the most heated issues and cases of our time. >> that's right, we could go down the list -- abortion, affirmative action, civil rights, gay d lesbian equality, the death penalty, he wrote decisions that ended thena death y for minors under age 18, and, when there is t intersection of government and

tligion, he also was key, and many ofose votes, when the h,ctory went to the left side of the behey were 5-4 decisions. nawaz: with his departure, now, is there someone else you see on the bench who miht become that next sort of influential swing vote? >> well, don't think there is a swing vote. i think, in terms of perhaps a median justice, someone in the center, th most likely possibility would be the chief justice. she probably a stronger conservative than justice kennedy, but there are certain areas he feels very strongly about, the structure of the constitution in terms of who has the power to do what, and there you can see him, perhaps, moving a little to the left.so look at the court right now and have seen sort of a core number for justices who try harder, i think, than the other justices in order to find common

ground and avoid the 5-4 decisions that show the court ideologically divided, but in the minds of citizens a parcotin t, and those four justices are kennedy, roberts, kagan andr br so i think, now, with justice kennedy leaving, the search for common ground may be harder. >> nawaz: you have ent hours in the courtroom watching the justices work. what stands out to you the way justice kennedy did his job? >> he's not as activa questioner as the more recent justices, but when he asks a question, everybody leans forward to listen because he is, so often, the key to how some of these more diffilt cases are decided. he has professorial air ab him. he's been teaching for years as an adjunct professor in california and a university in is alsoberg, austria, he goes there every summer.

he's not a warm and cozy guy or very eusive, but he h a very professional demeanor on the bench. >> nawaz: marciaoyle, "national law journal," good to >> nawaz: and with that supreme court vacancy comes a new round of politics. white house correspondent yamiche alcindor and congssional correspondent li desjardins joins me now for more on the battle ahead. it promises to be a real battle. yamiche, let's start with you. tell me a bit now about where the white house is. it's going to be up to president trump to put forward a new name. he had a new list he was working off they accomplished last year. >> the most important thing about president trump is the next be someone who young, pro-life and very conservative. president trump put out this list of nominees when he stwas l a candidate before he won the presidency. it was a bold move that was very unusual anhe did that because he wanted to signal to conservatives who were wavering whoher or not they wanted elect this businessman without a lot of political experience, he

wantedo signal i have yor back, i want to do something very critical for conloservativ. of the people on the list came from the federalist society, an orgofanization conservatives that is are looking at retooling the american legal system. tothe other thing i wanpoint out is who these people are because i think that'she big question. there are six women and 19 men. it's really important becauseen prestrump has been known for nominate ago lot of white men to the federal courts soea it'sy important to say that. from my count there's one black person, one judge that's the first south asian jue to be n a federal court. that's important and there is some diversity there. one judge mocked the president on twitter, making fun of him, so i don't think he's high on nhe list, a judge in texas. mike lee, seator in utah, is considered. the sources in the white house say the number one ting is the person be conservative, but they have to make it not as conservative, i'm sure lisa will

tell us about. >> nawaz: what will the republicans have to get through a senate confirmation, what doee they want ton a nominee? >> abortion remains a number one issue in talking about courts at all levels, especially the supreme court, but there's a real tricky strateglaat py here because, right now, with senator mccai home in arizona, still sick, now we have a senate where the republicans can only lose one of their members to maintain their majority. technically, 50 republicans, 49 democrats. among the 50 republicans you have suanan collind lisa murkowski, two women who have said they support roe vs. wade and have also supported planned parenthood. they both voted for kneel gorsuch. why? susan collins said at the time she believed he would not rule based on his personal beliefs which we understood to be

anti-abortion. o for this canted to make it, may have tthread a needle, be considered conservative on life issues and somewhat anti-abortion but not too much because these two women need support them. >> there's a careful consideration that needs to be made here. yamiche, do we ow that white house from the folks you've talked to want to takesi their time, cr the options and feel out where the rest of the world is or rush full steam ahead? >> the president is leading thar on this getting done as soon as possible. the white house wants this done, because the president alreadys has his t, he's said he's going to choose someonefrom this list. today i talked to mark short, the legislative director. he wl be one of the people shepherding through who the nominee is. he said we want it to be done fairly quickly. he said, obviously, the senate will decide what that is. but because ty're meeting over the sum here's saying they hope because congress will be in session that they will take the issue up.h other thingat's important,

trump is heading to fargo, north dakota today, and i want to mention tt because, the president, while he hasn't said utch about how he feels abo this, we know once he gets in front of the crowds, he's going to be screaming that's why this election mattered because it'sim gration, won the travel ban, campaign finance, his voters ar fired up about the support and republicans often care about the supreme court and his voters will care about this. and it will mid-term issue. the white house says even if we get a nominee before midterm, make go on the campaign trail and say president trump got two conservatives for supreme court. >> lisa de ardins, thanks for being here.

>> nawaz: in the day'sther ws, the u.s. house of representatives overwhelmingly voted down a republican immigration bill today, despite president trump's appeal to save it. hie measure, in part, called for a path to citizefor young immigrants, and barring separations of children from oprents. omocrats uniformlsed it. so did nearly halff the republicans. a this bill is anything b compromise it's anything but fair and it's certainly not pro- family. >> i think it's important to recognize that it's going to take an bipartisan bill that both address bder security as ll as a permanent fix for dreamers. >> nawaz: it's unclear ifag republicans cae on a bill focused just on banning family separations. last night, a federal judge in san diego ordered the government to reunite immigrant families within 30 days. for children younger than five, it's 14 days. we'll explore the effects of the court ruling after the news summary. the island nation of malta allowed a rescue ship to dock today, with more than 200 african migrants on board.

they'd been stranded in the mediterranean sea for six days as italy and maltanitially refused to take em. it's the latest spat in the european union over miation. an e.u. summit convenes tomorrow to focus on a long-term policy for ha in south sudan, warring parties agreed on a cease-fire, after five years of fighting that's created millions of refugees. the agreement takes affect in 72 f urs. ten of thousandsople have been killed in the south sudanese war. the last cease-fire broke down within hours. president trump says he will likely meet with russian tesident vladimir putin n month. he said today the summit could come in helsinki, finland or vienna, austria. earlier, in moscow, the u.s. national security adviser john bolton said mr. trump will not be deterred by the russia investigation. >> i think the president determined that, despite the political noise in the united states, that direct communication between him and president putin wain the

interest of united states, in the interest of russia, and in the interest of peace anty securound the world. >> nawaz: a formal announcement on the time and place of that trump-putin meeting is expected tomorrow. back in this country, a man who allegedly drove into protesters at a white nationalist in charlottesville, virginia, will face federal hate crime charges. ear-old james alex field was indicted today. he already faces state charges of murder and other crimes. one person was killed and dozens injured in the attack last year. they'd been demonstrating against the white nationalists. a white policeman in aynnsylvania was charged t with criminal homicide in the killing of antwon rose, an unarmed black teenager.sa officialeast pittsburgh officer michael rosfeld shot rose three times, as the 17- year-old ran from a car wanted in a shooting.e strict attorney says video corroborates witness accounts that rose held out empty hands to show he had no gun. w >> the no weapon that would have created a risk to officer rosfeld.

based on that evidence, i find that rosfeld actions were intentional and they certainly brought about the result he was looking to accomplish. ot acting to prevent death or serious injury. you do not shoot someone in the back if they are not a threat to you. >> nawaz: rosfeld initially said he thought he saw a gun in rose's hand, but he later recanted. the nominee for secretary of veteran affairs, robert wilkie, promised today he'll try his best to improve veterans' health oncare. at hisrmation hearing, robert wilkie said he does not support privatizing th system. he also said he will stand up to president trump, if that's required. on wall street today, trade tensions with china undercut s tecks, and dragged the broader market lower. the dow jones industrial average lost 165 pointso close at 24,117. the nasdaq fell 116 points, 1.5%, and the s&p 50ped 23.

suddenly, there's a marijuanoi blowout sale on in california. legal dispensaries have slashed prices up to 50 percent before new testing rules sunday.ct after that, shops will be forced destroy pot that wasn't properly tested or packaged. the state legalized recreational marijuana in january. and, joe jackson, patriarch of the musical jackson family, died early today, of cancer, in las vegas. he was known as a fearsome figure who shaped his into the jackson 5 in 1969. ychael grew into a legend solo performer, and sister janet so became a star. joe jackson later denied claims e physically abused his children. he was 89 years old. still to come on the newshour: can the white house meet a tight deadline treunite immigrant families? what a major upset in new york's primary says about the democratic party. preserving timbuktu's ancient

manuscripts that al qaeda nearly destroyed, and much more. >> nawaz: there are still many quesons about the trump administration's immigration flicy and what it means for the children separatm their families. john yang reports how a federal judge has ordered that all kids affected be reunited with their parents within 30 days >> yang: amna, the judge'sde strongly wruling raises the stakes for the trump administration on this issue.mo to tal about it, we are joined by john sandweg, who spent five years in the department of homeland security during the obama administration, including serving as acting director of immigration and customs enforcement.

john sandweg, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> yang: the judge set a tight time frame on this. ell children under five have to be reunited in f days, all older children 30 days and all children have to be able to talk to their parents in ten days. will they be able to do this? >> provide they did release ther ch in custody on an expedited basis, shouldn't be a problem. the key is to release the 2,000 children being held to release them as quics possible. >> taking them out of the aiiminal process and taking the charges t them? >> believe it or not, because the criminal process is pretty short ration, the charges are misdemeanor charges. in my experience, the judges who do the streamline prosecution, the misdemeanor illegal entry prosecutions gerally will give time served. so by the time you see the judge and plead guilty, your sentence will be complete, they will give you time served for time in custody. >> the judge in his decisiont, said thn a conference with the government lawyers as

recently as last week, they said they had no plans in place for reconciliation for reuniting these families.>> think the administration was trying to have their cake and eat it, too. they wanted to continue to dstain the parents, but once the are put in the foster system, there was no way they could have brought the kids bace toarents and continued the detention. so i think what you' seeing is the administration didn't have a plan to continue the detention of the president and pstill k the president's promise of reuniting the kids. that's why'sthe judrder is important, to force the administration to recognize realities and force them to let the parents reunify with the children. >> the judge said the a system in place for communication with the children. if that's the case, why are parents saying they are having en much difficulty finding out where their chilre and talking to them? >> because, john,his was neer done before. never before have we intentionally separated families in immigration, only in a circumstance of a dangerous felon and you had no choice for

public safety but to doit. but when you implement a massive change like this when you'rem ripping ilies apart, there was no government agency whose job it was to tracthe movement of the parents and children, so i think almost all of the logistical problems we're seeing are a function of the fact we never had need to provide communications between kids and parents before because wnever separated them before. >> to that point, the judge said that the government tracks the property of these parents better than they're tracking the children of these parents. >> yeah. well with, again, you safeguardy the propof individuals you detain and that's been a function the government has done for decades, of course, long than that. but, again, what we did here, what's frustrating to me, i understand the frustrations of the people who say we have to end catch and release, there is a simple way of doing that through hiring of immigration judges. but to implement a massive chge without policies and

procedures without identifying who's going to track children, the parents, what's the reunification plan, do we ve the budget to do this, all of those questions could have and should have been answered before you implement the policy change. >> and help me understand, also, this process and how this system works. the judge said parents can no longer be deported without their children. how common is that, that parents are sent back totheir home countries, yet their children remain in detention in the united states? >> prior to the implementation of this policy, it was generally very, very rare. the policy in place before was not to let these peopole permanently. it would be just to keep the family unit in tact. so they stay ineportation proceedings, have an immigration hearing where they will be ordered deported eventually but do it as a family gro together. the administration said if we split the kids from the parents becausthey're detned, they will be fast tracked in the immigration court. detained cases move more quickly

than non-detained cases. because the kids are not traditionally detaineand are in a foster facility, they go at a much slower pace. so we're starting to see that in the beginning of the process, but had this gone on, i think you would have sen almost all the parents would have been deported while the kids are going through t separate legal process that moves much slower. >> eventually would they be reunited witenparents and back to the home country as well? >> thankfully we won't have to swer the question. it's must have more difficult than people realized because it could be three or four yeahe beforehild has a hearing to be deported. some kids would be eligible because they would have been deemed to have been abandoned by parents and would have been eligible for green cards in the united states. we would have seen, had is polledy continued, we would have aren large number of the kids and ents permanently separated. >> as someone who's spent time in the federal government and was an variety of the federal government, what's your reaction to this? the judge in this order called

the circumstances chaotic. he said they belie measured and ordered governments which is central to the concept odf process enshrined in our constitution. wh do you make of thias someone who's worked in the government? >> it's bad government is what this wain seaside your views on should we be tougher at the border or even separate parents, i thinevery single taxpayer would agree agree that we need a vernment that's run competently. the problem is you implement a radical policy shift without consulting career folks working on border security issues and know the lawtheogistical hurdles and the budgetary constraints and get their input and devise a plan to deal with the potential chao you're shorting the taxpayers here. so regardless of what you think of the policy, i think everybody should agree this was incompetently managed and -- look, i spef nt hundreds ohours in meetings at the white house where we were g budgeting and logistics whenever we were going to implement a

major policy, with all the other agencies impacted, the white house brhegs them tog none of that appeared to happen in this case. >> john sandweg, director of immigration custom ms enforcement, thank you much. >> thank you. >> nawaz: voters in seven states went to the polls yesterday in the latest test for both parties ahead of november's midterms. lisa desjardins isack with this look at a major upset for one of the highest-ranking democrats in t house of representatives. >> i cannot put this into words. >> desjardins: alexandria ocacio-cortez was speechless after toppling congressman joecr ley, the number four democrat in the house, in the new york primary in queens and the bronx.-y the 28ear-old democratic socialist, who could become them youngest ever elected to congress, was a former organizer for bernie sanders' presentialmp

cagn and ran on a progressive platform of medicare omr all and shutting down ice - immigration and cus enforcement. >> our campaign was focused on just a laser focus message of economic, social and racial dignity for working class americanyo even iu've never voted before, we are talking to you. >> desjardins: 10-term incumbenw crowley, w considering a run for speaker of the house,en immediately rsed his opponent. >> at the end of the day this district will be represeed by a democrat. and it's the democratic party that's going to lead this nation forward. >> desjardn capitol hill, minority leader nancy pelosi dismissed any questions of bigger troubles or battles inside the democratic party. >> nobody's district is representative of so else's district. it's just a sign of the vitality of our party. we're not a rubber stamp. um desjardins: but president said crowley's loss is a victory for him. writing on twitter: "that is a big one that nobody sawen

hag. perhaps he should have been nicer, and more respectful, to his president!" it was a very good night for mr. trump and his candidates all around. south carolina governor henry mcmaster, who campaigned with the president monday, won a runoff for the republican nomination. >> as president trumeesays, we willon winning, winning, winning in south carolina! >> desjardins: the president'snd ate on staten island, incumbent dan donovan, easily fended off a comeback bid by former congressman michael grimm who resigned his seat 015 fafter pleading guilty toelony tax fraud. and president trum congratulated former adversary mitt romney, who won his party's nomination for utah's senate seat. the former g.o. presidential nominee and massachusetts governor delivered aofter message on one of the president's hardline issues. >> we also welcome immigrantsd fugees who come here legally. they add to the vitality of our great country. >> desjardins: the nation is now

more than halfway through the midterm primary season, just four monthuntil november's ections. for the pbs newshour, i'm lisa desjardins. >> nawaz: we return to our lead story. justice kennedy leaves a powerful legacy on the court, best told by people who served as his clerks, argued before him, or closely followed his jurisprudence. miceael dorf clerked for jus kennedy. he teaches law at cornell. orin kerr is a law professor at the university of southern california and another former clerk to justice kennedy. ilya shapiro is a longtime observer of kennedy's and the court, and editor-in-chief of the cato institute's supremeew court re and walter dellinger is a former acting solicitor general who argued more than 20 cases before sstice kennedy. he's now at duke lool. ngntlemen, thank you for b here.

walter dellinger, let me start with you. you'd estimated moe than 20 cases you argued before justice kennedy. what do you remember about making those arguments before him? >> well, one of the great qualities of justice kennedy was that, in many important cases, you kneheas open to be persended by cogent arg so that, i think often, advocate felt he was someone who could be persuaded. i think he wasn as sharp a questioner as some of his colleagues, but i think that was offset by a quality of open-mindedness. >> nawaz: orin kerr, you perhaps got to see him in a way the rest of us did not. tell me a lilt biabout this man who, for so many, played such a pivotal role in some of the biggest issues of our time. did those issues weigh on him? >> he certainly thought bout they and deeply issues that the court was considering and, as walter dellinger just noted, i think h had more open mind towards

the direction that the law should go te n somother justices. something that frustrated people on both sides, he was not a reliable vote for one side or another, but rather a justice who had come and considered eaco case on it and reached his own view about what the constitution should mean. >> nawaz: ilya shavepiro, you een watching the court, would you consider him a moderate voter, largely conservative over the course of his career. how will that change ahead? >> kennedy's been called the libertarian justice, probably a low bar, but the way he sees cases coherent within, i guess, his own issue areas but in conventional terms about religionism or progressism or how you want to call it. so whoever repces him won't be like that. it's going to be from trump's listall are originalists and tex chiewlists, what some might call conservative or libertarian

some extent but a more conventional style of rubric. so this will move the court what conventionally is called to the right on many issue areas which means john roberts, the chief justice, would also be the man in the middle and, so, john roberts will be ever more powerful. >> nawaz: michael dorf, you also knew him as a former clerk. this issue opllegacy, for peo who serve on the highest court in the land, it comes up often. i wonder if you think thas something justice kennedy considered as he was making some to have the biggest decisns and how his departure would affect that leg >> i think he considered the long-term implications of all his decisions. he was thinking about considering the cases before him. unli sandra o'connor who was sort of awing justice, i don't think he thought just in terms of the case before him and

decide on narrow grounds so he thought a his biggest legacy was in the e arerights area, but th all sorts of cases he will be known for. for instance, the decision that extended the right of habeas corpus to non-citizens outside the technical jurisdicon of the united states. he was fundamentally a justice ko didn't want to get st on technicalities, and whether that spirit survives willy rea depend on where the court goes and as ilya says on whether chief justice roberts goes in e near tm. >> nawaz: ilya, some of the votes that potentially surprised a lot of people from justice kennedy, like the 2015 same-sex marriage vote, he was the deciding vote there aswell, he also voted to uphold abortion rights precedent, which was not necessarily a conservative position. it's likely and fair to assume that the nexnominee will be more conservative, perhaps. so could some of justice kennedy's legacy in those decisions be undone?

>> ie depends on sue area. on affirmative action, racial preferences, only once, the most recentvsase fishe. u.t. austin, did he vote to uphold a use of racial preference in admissions. even though he voted against other programs, he refused to slam the door on doing that. presumab the next ninee will be more in line we have been john roberts who said the way to stop racial discrimination is to stop discriminating based ora . on abortion i'm not certain it takes just replacing kennedy top overturn plannenthood vs. casey and rowe. john roberts ir a moe fundamentalist. you have to look ate issue by issue. there will be more transformations, but doesn't mean every case in the last five en years where kennedy joined with liberals that it now is all of a sudden in play or be overturned. >> nawaz: let's look at the issue of abortion, been comings up in convions since

justice kennedy announced his departure. what do you make of that? is there a policy it could come up with a more consertive nominee moving forward that justice kennedy's previous desions could be undone? >> well, if president trump succeeded in nominating and confirming a justice like justice gorsuch, i think itul be an enormous change in the consequence of the cour to start wit abortion, there are only four justices on the cot that, i think, would isn't roe v.ade or even planned parenthood vs. casey. justice kennedy was theey ve to strike down regulations that, in his viewvi and in the ew of the majority, had no metical basis that would have closed virtually every clinic in the state of texas. so i think a justice who agreed with justice gorsuch, a new justice would be the firth vot

not necessarily to say the words row vs. isde overruled, but to allow regulations that many think would price and reg abortion out of the reach of many women. on the iue of gay marriage, i don't see them ovngrturhe vote, but i think they could delegitimize marriage by decisions adverse to gay interest on spousal benefits or parental rigr other areas. then i think we're looking at a possible court that would invalidate any kind of progressive economic legislation, so i think that it is truly profound -- i think i disagree a little bit with tone of my friends and colleagues. i think it's a rlly -- sets the stage for profound change.ri >> kerr, do you think there is profound change ahead in the wake of justice kennedy's departur >> i agree wh walter dellinger, i think there's

likely to be major changes in american law in a way we haven't seen in a long time. it's important to realize justice kennedy has been on the court for 32 years and a center vote pretty much tntire time. so even though individual cases might be seen to bring the law in a particular direction, that stability of having that same person be the deciding ve or one of the deciding votes is actually relatively staslity. i ct we're about to enter a time of things being much more in flux than we've seen in decades. >> michael dorf, let me ask you about some of your more personal remembrances as well with. this is a man who presented himself in a very professional manner on the bench as all the justices do. it was hard to read where he wam coming from on of the issues. what do you know about how he considered some of the big cases, the ones that will now only be really judged by history? >> he prepared very strenuously for all of the cases the courtd. fa he would read all of the briefs.

it actually was a bit frustrating to me as a law clerk because, on the court of apals, typically judge want bench memos, which is a law clerk summarizing thbriefs, and justice kennedy liked us to prepare in my day audiotapes where they would have been mp3s in my daywe, ould have talked about the cases or summarize them as he listened on his way to and from the court, and he would do that in addition to all e reading. as a questioner, i think i know mat walter means when he said he wasn't that sharp, didn't mean he wasn't sharp. he wouldn't try to trick lawyers, he would ask questions of genuine concern, and likely tip his hand as to how he wasvo likely tte, though not always. in the earlier segment you hadia maoyle saying he wasn't sort of warm and cuddly, and i'm sure that's tr in his professional manner to lawyers

and in the courtroom. i wouldn't say cuddly, but h was certainly extremely friendly and he has a great sense of humo kind of mischievous sense of humor, in fact. >> something we don't hear often about. ilya shapiro, for his place or the influence for all the years on the bench, what the legacy of justice kennedy? >> it's mixed. he's not going to be universally loved by rsboth or unively hated by anyone, i don't think. ortant supremeimp court justice. >> michael dorf, orin kerr, ilya shapiro and walter dellinger, thanks forour time. >> thank you. e >> nawaz: now, to rican nation of mali and the ongoing efforts to preserve priceless records of the past, from the fbrary of the fabled city timbuktu. the city was overrun in 2012 by al qaeda, who destroyed manuscripts dating back

centuries. the militants are now gone, but the turml remains. and time may be running out to save these irreplaceable documents. from timbuktu, specialmo correspondent nica villamizar reports. >> reporter: these people are saving a world of knowledge, a world nearly lost forever. they are digitizing tens of thousands of ancient manuscripts rescued from near destruction during the al qaeda occupation of timbuktu five years ago. al qaeda destroyed monuments and braries that were seven centuries old. the militants implemented islamic sharia law, and banned anything considered "sinful," like the manuscriptsenwhich were s pagan writings' many were burnt. despite the deadly conflict, abdel kader haidara managed to save around 200,000 books. >> ( translated ): we smuggled

the manuscripts out very slowly, little by little, little by little, over a pentod of six . we took them out of timbuktu in four by fours. we brought them to bamako, we also stockpiled them in small boats, about five miles outside of timbuktu and took the375 miles away. >> reporter: abdel kader haidara, whose family also owns an important collection of manuscripts, has digitized 20% 0,000 documents the originals are kept in this room, classified by family name and year. they deal with myriad subjects: subjects such as astronomy and physics, politics and...e agic. thntlemen are reading page by page of each book, and they are making notes, like a summary, on what it says in each page. but time is running out. the books survived for centuries thanks to the dry desert of timbuktu, but now live in the heavy,ropical climate of mali: bamako, mali's capital.

timbuktu and northern mali, still plagued by conflict remains a no-go area. >> ( translated ): there is an urgency because we have used 20% of the funds already, it's a lot but keep in e have hundreds of thousands of manuscripts. >> reporter: these books are relics, some date back to the 13th century, and have survived for more than 700 years. this one was a bit damaged by water. the fabled city of timbuktu is an oasis of culture in the middle of the desert. for centuries it served as the main transit point of the trans saharan caravans here it can feel like time has s. the "noble houses" of timbuktu have been lding book readings for decades, a sort of ancient version of "bo clubs."pl

the mee books on their forehead, symbolizing the transfer of knowledge. and an imam or other spiritual authority explains the meaningy- of the mosligious texts. ben essayouti, timbuktu's minister of culture, says the books should return to tir city of origin. >> ( translated ): it was the base to spread aisb culture and m to black africa. people came from south africa to study here, and others came from maghreb to bring manuscripts and books, especially to print them, becausafrica didn't have printers, so everything was copied by hand here. >> reporter: but timbuktu is not safe to return. the only way to get there is to fly with the united nations, roads are too dangerous. buis city at night, looks like any normal, city, if you look right behind me, there is a heavy security presence. these soldiers are bhelmets, the u.n. peacekeeping forces and they have been attacked manys tifore. the soldiers are not the only targets.ai riccardo the head of the

u.n. mission in timbuktu, hadke his office attby gunmen eight months ago. a bullet went through here? >> yes it was supposed to go through my head, insteadt went through the map. well i was lucky enough to survive that attack, actually i had stepped out of my office seven minutes before the attack occurred, which i never did at that time, so somehow i was protected, the malians say by god. >> reporter: the u.n. has a rare mandate to ptect the city's cultural heritage, including the manuscripts.e >> they portant because they are a testimony of what has been going on here, that we see today as a remote outpost in the sahara, nine centuries ago when th was a major cultural center. where there was a large universi with, teachers and scholars coming from the arab peninsula. >> reporter: some of the families who owned ancient manuscripts refused muggle

them out of the city during the al qaeda occupation of timbuktu. we managed to track one of them and we are going to ask why they wanted to hold on to the books. haoua toure owns a private library. she fled when al qaeda took over timbuktu, but hid her precious books before she left. >> ( translated ): we couldn't take the manuscripts with us, the occupation took b by surpri people had to decide what to do. so people started to find ways of hiding their manuscripts, before leaving. when everyone returned then it was time to find them. >> reporter: most of her manuscripts are inside coffers still hidden in an undisclosed location because she is not convinced that the city is safe yet. but she has unearthed one on the many chests to start organizing her private collection. >> ( translated ): we know the exact coordinates of every one of o manuscripts, but we can't unearth many of them because it's still dangerous herearso we can't organizing them yet, they will remain in hiding.

it's really a problem and it's much better that that it remains a secret for the security of all of us. >> reporter: moustapha cisee, an archivist and family friend, has started to classify the manuscripts. the writings contain personal records of toure's family, their finances, illness even love affairs, so his b is to keep the secret's safe while making the other portions available to the public. timbuktu, a city on the edge of the sahara, is harder to access today than it was centuries ago. and much of its knowledge remains a secret, buried under the sand dunes. for the pbs newshour, i'm monica villamizar in timbuktu. >> nawaz: and finally tonight, we close out with our monthly segment "now read this."

that's our special book club in partnership with the "new york times" that many of you have joined. jeffrey brown talks with this month's author and announces our pick f july. arthur less is a minor novel is about to turn 50 and about to see his younger lover marry someone else. tit's a vain and very com attempt to escape everything, told in the new novel callewi "less,ner of this year's pulitzer prize and our june book club pick, arthur andrew sean greer joins me to answer questions from you, our readers. welcome and congratulations on the pulitzer. >> thank y, thank you for having me. >> brown: must be a nice terprise. >> q surprise. >> brown: it's also funny to think about a novel about a novelist who can't accplish much overanything wins a pulitzer prize. >> it's the irony of the whole ing. ite last thing arthur would have expected for sure. >> brown: and andrew?

and me, for sure. >> brown: we've got questions from readers. t's look at the first one. >> my name is rhonda brewer, live in d.c. one of the many things i adoumie this book are all the travels of arthur less. mr. greer, could you sha with us how you got familiar with all these cultures and languagwr in order tote about them so convincingly and avoid stereotypes? >> brown: so your character is traveling the world, right? >> yeah. >> brown: do you know these places? >> i knew some of them from myt time as vel writer, one of my husband also to make a living as a write juror really? >> yeah. >> brown: before turning t novels or -- >> well, while turning to novels. >> brown: yeah. ke ends meet. so i had been to a lot of the places and began to put them in the book bmaause i took sony notes as a travel writer, and one of my rules for the book was i could only put in details i had written down in my notebooks because i didn't want it to be about stereotypes. i wanted it to be about what iac ally saw, even if it was

unexpected. >> brown: second question. this is mike pilgrim from chicago. i read somewhere you decided to changehe tone of the book while swimming. i'm curious, how long did it take to change the tone from serious to comic?wn >> bhelp those who haven't read it, was it did originally serious? because it is very funny now. >> the funny thing is a comedy is usually from a sad story tha you jucide to tell a different way. i spent about a year on it as a so ofoignant novel. >> brown: a poison nent novel of aging, of -- an not about travel, and it just felt likeother middle-aged guy novel and i just thought it was absurd and i realized it was absurd and i could write about it that way and while swimming i decided to change it, and from there it happened very fast because that was the way into the book. >> really? once you knew that it was a sort of a funny -- >> that it wa funny novel about someone in pain.

>> yeah. okay, let's go to our next question. >> my name is david kessler from oakland, california. since you published you first book some 20 years ago, socieeey has a change in its attitude between homosexuality and gay marriage. less is written with grace, ease an openness. do you think it would have been possible for you to write a book with those characteristics 20 years ago when you first started writing? >> brown: we didn't say but he's a gay character. >> he is a gay character. >> brown: yeah. rii tried 20 years ago tote a book about a contemporary gay life, and i just couldn't do it, couldn't figure out how to write the story, and, somehow, thist' time, maybe the society that's changed. it certainly shocks me to see so many people reading this book about a gay man traveling around the world and they never talk ab they talk about him as a character, and that really movee >> brown: it shocks you just that people are reading it about that subject witut --

>> yeah, 20 years ago, i think this would have been in a certain part of the book store, annow it's for everybody, and that really -- it's touching. >> brown: well, so, i mean, to go to this question, though, a little bit more, he's asking how much you see society having changed. >> it's changed in some ways and, of course, there's a backlash. so it's people come to me at every reading in tears because the book was a sort ofision for them of a way to be happy and be gay or to struggle with your happiness and not struggle with trauma. because being gay isn't a trauma, it's a way of life. >> brown: okay.st one more qn or last question for our first section here. let's take a look. >> my name is elizabeth and i'm from hopewell, new jersey. your book touches on love inso in guises from transient passion to long-term comfo, and you seem to believe in the importance of love, but, in the end, most of the relaonips

seem to lead to heartache. so i was wondering whether there was a message you wanted to convey about romantic love and the love between friends. >> oh, my gosh. >> brown: yeah. (laughter) >> i've got to say, i write books because i don't have answers to some thi these are the questions that plague me. so, in this book, i tried ievn y chapter to have a different kind of love. i would say in every book, i d, tho, so i'm clearly not the guy with the ansiwers. buertainly think the relationships, every one of them is worth it, even if they end. and there's one character in morocco who iasking what is love, and i'm not sure i answer that, but i try to give one possible answer at the end. >> brown: all right, we're going to continue with morepo questions ant our complete conversation online later. for now, andrewthean greer, k you for joining us for this and, again, congratulations on the pulbzer. anore we go, let me

announce our book club pick for july, "pachinko," a family novel perfect for long days at the beach with ties to current subjects immigration and korea. author min jin lee wiln us at the end of the month. we hope you will join us in coming weeksn our now read will facebook page. >> nawaz: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm amna nawaz. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you d good night. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> consumer cellular believes that wireless plans should reflect the amount of talk, text and data that au use. we offariety of no- contract wireless plans for learn more, go tocohing in umercellular.tv

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♪ >> by last count, there are more than 30,000 hot pot restaurants in chengdu, 30,000. there are only 24,000 restaurants in total ab entire new york city. so are we talkint an addiction or obssion? just how much do the people l in chengdue their hot pot, and why? pull up a chair. stick around, and you'll find out next on "yan can cook." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪