captioning sponsored newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening. i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight: missing the deadline.e ump administration asks for more time to reunite separated immigrant families, struggling to match children to parents. then, a trade war begins between the world's two larges economies. the trump administration imposes riffs on $34 billion of chinese imports, and beijing retaliates. it's friday. david brooks and ezra klein are here to tackle the president's short list of possible supreme court nominees. plus: ( newshour theme song ) >> woodruff: comic timin dave chappelle opens up about making people laugh in a nstantly changing cultur >> sometimes i think that we're

painfully desensitized because we're bombarded by so much information. and then other times i think it's just a lot to be mad at, especially when you know so much. woodruff: all that and more, on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> consumer cellular believesan that wireless should reflect the amount of talk, text and data that you use. we offer a varty of no- contract wireless plans forse people who u their phones a little, a lot, or anything in between. to learn more, go to consumercellular.tv >> financial services firm raymond james. >> leidos. >> babbel. a language app that teaches real-life conversations in a new

language. >> the ford foundation.th working wi visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: and friends of the newshour. >> this program was made fossible by the corporatio public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs yostation from viewers lik thank you. >> woodruff: the trumpni adration says it needs more time to meet a deadline set by a federal judge to reunite immigrant families. today's move highlights the diffult task of connecting

children with their parents. our lisa desjardins has been trying to trk the nearly 3,000 minors still in the government's care and joins me now to map the roadblocks ahead. you have been paying attention to a court hearing where this is being heard. >> that's right. nhe court hearing ended in the last hour or so chicago. the judge has not decided whether he will actually move e deadlines for the trump administration or not and maybe we'll hear that decision next week. we heard from the trump administration's department of justice some new details, specifically about the kid under five years old. s ey said there are 101 of those children, and thll us something about the reunification issues. they said 46 of the smallest kids, their parenis in detention right now, i.c.e. there are 19 kids who is parents have been deported, and 16 of the children under five years old in u.s. custody, parentlo unknowation.

so this speaks to the greater problems. d.h.s. and d.o.j. are saying they can't locate parents in some casses, they are mising data. we can talk about that laterno but fothe deadline stands and perhaps a decision next eeek. >> woodruff: now wnow more about how difficult the reyiewive case process is. the administration says they want them reunified but making it happen ism coplicated. >> this is the issue -- when the families cross the border,am d.h.s.in and separated parents and children. the parents went into i.c.e. detention into one system, t children went into health and human services, completely different syste those agencies are supposed to talk to each other. in many and perhaps most cases, they did not. we have reports from the "new york times" that some of this important data has been deleted or lost, and now what we're seeing over this weekend a frantic effort, in fact call for volunteers, to trto go through case-by-case to try and connect

these kids with their parents. in some cases we're seeing dna tests may be the quickest way to establish parenthood, that's if a parent name is known. , for some to have the kihey don't know exactly where the parent is. >> woodruff: so, lisa, this group of separated families we're talking about, do we know how many, what percentage, portion ofem are people who came here to the u.s. seeking legal asylum? >> we don't know thercetage yet. the trump administration, in some instances, has de have separated asylum-seeking egmilies. however, in those documents we talked about yesterday, this is the lawsuit on behalf of 17 states and the district of columbia, there were numerous, numeral legafilings under oath by asylum seekers who said they had been separated wom their children. t to read to you from just one. this is an asylum seeker who entered at a leal court of entry. elizabeth wrote, i was put in chains on my hands and feet and waist like a criminal. the authities told me that they were not going to give me

asylum and that i would not see son until he was 18 years old because they were going to put him up for adoption. at scared me a lot. this speaks to two things, this is an asym eker, legal port of entry, not the only one inth e filings who was separated, detained, shackled. another such asseluer said he was shackled, along with other men who wee stumbling, not given bathroom privilegeso and urinatinn themselves because of it, the these were pe who had not committed a crime, were seeking asylum. we see many elements of intimidation for asyrslum see at least claimed. >> woodruff: lisa, you have iticalalking to people of this process, who have a very different view of whether people should be allowed to come into the country. >> i think if you speak to trump supporters, they think the problem is the way the legal system has been laid out, that the president was choosing to

enforce the laws at hed not want to separate these families, but, if he didn't separate them, he would, in fact, be encouraging more people to cross the border and, of course, liberals disagree with that. the bottom line, juthese people in u.s. custody, the u.s. has responsibility for theirre now. >> woodruff: lisa desjardins, more excellent reporting. thank you very much. >> you're welcome. >> woodruff: ithe day's other news, the late u.s. jobs report shows a resilient economy, despite fears of a trade war with china. the labor department said that 213,000 new jobs were ded in june, exceeding projections. but the unemployment rate jumped slightly to 4%, up from 3.8%n may. the report comes as punitive tariffs on $34 billion worth of chinese imports go into effect today. beijing hit back quickly, in what it called, "the biggest trade war in economic history." we will examine the consequenc of a tit-for-tat with china

after the news summary. secretary of state mike pompeo arrivein north korea today for more high level talks aimed at dismantling the country's nuclear weapons program. president trump left a historic summit last month with a broad commitment from north korean lead kim jong-un to nuclearize, but pompeo said he hopes to, "filin the details." the secretary of state will stay overnight in pyongyang.s it iknown whether he will meet with kim himself.go challenging ations also played out in vienna, where the remaining memb the 2015 iran nuclear deal tried to keep iran from walking away from the agreement. the countries' foreign ministers described a broad package of measures to boost iran's economy, but they acknowledged it was hard to counteract u.s. sanctions remposed on iran after president trump pulled out of the deal in may. >> ( translated ): we will not be able to compensate for everything that arises fro

companies pulling out of iran,el which heir american business threatened by sanctions. t due u.s. sanctions, the situation has become difficult, but we try to make clear to iran that completely abandoning the deal would cause even more harm also to iran's economy. >> woodruff: iran's present hassan rouhani said yesterday that the proposed economic measures do not go far enough, to ensure oil revenues and foreign investment for tehran. in northern thailand, the effort to save 12 boys and their soccer coach trapped in a cave appears even more perilous after a rescue diver died overnight. the team is located about 2.5 miles into the partially flooded cave complex, a 12-hour journey from the entrance. officials say the diver, samarn kunan, succumbed to dropping oxygen levels inside the cave. >> ( translated ): thee conditions in ve are tough. samarn fell unconscious on hism way back fere the boys are. his buddy tried to administer

first aid, but he d not respon i can guarantee that we will not panic, we will not stop our miion, we won't let his li be in vain. >> woodruff: rising water levels are also threatening the operation, with heavy expected this weekend. foin southwest syria, rebees agreed to surrender daraa province after a punishing government offensive backed by russian airstrikes. the syrian military took ctrol of the naseeb border crossing with jorda which the opposition had held for three years. meanwhile, the international rescue committee warned of a worsening refugee cris. 330,000 people have fled their homes since the offensive began in june. u.s. representative jim jordan is facing a rising tide ofcu tions that he turned a blind eye to sexual abuse at ohio state university.es five former ers at the school have now come forward to say that congressman jordan knew

about a team doctor's abuse when he was a coach there in the 1990s. the republican lawmaker denies any knowledge of the incidents, and the president said yesterday he "believes him 100%." in indiana, p republicans are calling on attorney general curtis hill to resign after four wen accused him of sexual harassment. the women, including a stateve representasay hill groped them at an indianapolis bar in march. yesterday, indiana's governor and two g.o.p. statehouse leaders said the republican attorney general should step down. hill has denied the allegations and refused to resign. across the weste u.s., bone-dry heat and strong winds are fueling some 60 wildfires. authorities said that one rson died in a fire in hornbrook, california, near the oregon border. in southwest colorado, the third-largest fire in state history is now 35% contained, but another near aspen continued to spread, forcing more

evacuations. governor john hickenlooper toured the affected areas today. >> when you get this many fires at one time, you obviously stretch your resources, and i think what we've been doing, i think what we saw here in the last couple of days, was prioritizing those places where we have the greatest risk. we have more resources active in this, in this state right now than i think-- that we've ever had in history. on wall street today, the dow jones industrial average gained 99 points to close at 24,456. the nasdaq rose 102 points, and the s&p 500 gained 23. for the week, the dow gained less than 1% the nasdaq rose 2.5%.50 the s&p rose 1.5%. still to come on the newshour: consequences of the u.s. trade r with china. tmigrants who have joined military, in limbo. president trump makes light of the "me too" movemen and, much more.

>> woodruff: the world's two largest economies have moved beyond rhetoric and threats to a trade war. both the u.s. and china launch w tarrifs against each other today. the trump administration impose w fees on chinese goods at midnight. china retaliated iediately. amna nawaz looks at the strategies of both sides, and the potential consequences. >> nawaz: president trump set into motion 25% tariffs on more than 800 chinese imported goods, including aircraft engines, industrial machinery and parts for electronics, to name just a few. now, china hit back with tariffs of its own on more than 500 u.s.-made goods, some of which target areas of the country that voted heavily for mrp. that includes exports like soybeans, pork and corn. let's break down how both sides

are positioning themselves, andh wherimpact of the tariffs will be felt first. david honig is an attorney who teaches negotiations at indiana university.an and yasheng is a professor who studies the chinese economy and global business at the m.i.t. sloan school of management. david honig, i want to start with you. talk to me about the negotiating style that we have seen so far with president trump. you break them down into a couple of categories. one is called distributive bargaining, that's what we're seeing here. what does that mean? >> distributive bargaining is really exactly what it sounds like. the peoplin the negotiation are simply deciding how they're going to distribute a limited pool, and, otherwise, they have no interests in common.ry they're justg to figure out who gets more slices of the pie or how much a cabinet-makert is goi get paid off his invoice for the person who pt cabinets in a casino.

>> integrated batering, how are the two different? ting bargaining is everything else. integrated bargaining exists when there is not a complete lackf interest between the two, where they may be able to help each other, where there may be a future relationship, where they may be able to hurt each other or back at the negotiation tae another tme. >> make it real in the context we're talking about. in arade war wit china, what if we seen from president trump that speaks to you about distributive bargaining? >> what i've seen from the president is treating st about every negotiation as something that is distributive. it's complete win-lose. is take it or leave it, without the appearance, at least, cof a reognition that we're going to come back to the table another time and that we m haual interests. >> professor huang, let's talkou the flip side of this. we see where president trump seems to be comining fro negotiating style and tactics. from china's reaction and response, whateems to be their strategy to the trade war?

>> i think their strategy is the integrated bargaining, as mr. honig described. they signaled they wanted to reach an agreement with the trump administration. first they talked about making ooncessions on the trade front, buying more goods the united states to narrow the trade imbalances between the two countries. then they actually took the step of lowering tariffs o goods critical to amen rimpanies, automobiles, trucks and the whole range of products. they also at least signaled that they were willing to talk about i.p. isselues, intctual property rights issues, the entry by the foreign fir in the chinese maralket, finan sector, other issue areas. but they didn't get a positive response from the trump administration precisely because the strategy rsued by the

trump administration is kind of a take it or leave it. that doesn't really leave the chinese with much room to maneuver. >> david honig, now that we are where we are in the tit for tat with tariffs, talk about the ripple effect. the u.s. imposes tariffs, at least the chinese tariffs, soybeans forks example, china canceled the soybean orders, they are nearly a thirdov the entire soybean crop purchasing power there. that's a big hit to the u.s. economy. what's next? where does the ripple effect go from there? >> it is a big hit and it shows the danger of treating something at's distributive that truly isn't. so what we see is not only damage tomerican farmers because they're not able to sell their soybeans, but what happened next i s chinaught their soybeans from russia, they tripled their purchases from russia. the ripple effect beyond that is not only is russia now buying -- selling soybeans and american farmers are losing them, but russia is now getting hard currency.

so if you grao outside and look at america's ability to project its power, now sanctio will be less effective because our sanctions addressed at russia go to limiting their availability for hard yurns and we put them in a situation whero they can gee of that from china. >> professor huang, you're saying the two sides areoming agent it from different approaches, but trump says he's doing what he said he would and applying hi tough bargaining, when it comes to the u.s. and china trade alance. if nothing worked to etch it out before, maybe could this work now? >> well, i disagree that the trade imbalance in and of itself is about uneven relationship between the tw countries. the trade imbalance is driven by deep structural economic factors within these two cou one country has a very high savings rate, the other country has a loweraavingse.

but i do want to make it clear that there are objective problems between china an the united states. i will view ip as an issue, entry of foreign firms into a chinese market as another legitimate issues. the problem i have with the trump administration is not so much that they invoke ade war as a tactic to get the chinese to come to the negotiating table. the problem i have is they are now presumed as an end in and of itself, and that's very rekless to escalate the trade war. it's going to be bad for the chinese economy for sure, but 's also going to be bad for the u.s. economy because much o thnsumption in this country is produced by chineseot companies, af the components source by u.s.

companies are produd by chinese companies, is going to have a huge ripple effect on the u.s. enomy asll. so it's okay to threaten china with a trade war, but to actually usit is reckless. >> david honig, now that they are actlly using it, where is the off ramp in how does this end? >> i don't kow. i'm nosure they've anticipated an off ramp. the same thing happened when they shut down the ageement with iran and told everybody, okay, stop buying oil as of november first and all of the countries said we can't, we can't replace it yet. this week, the u.s. state department said, okay, well, go ahead and keep bu, ying oil they didn't anticipate an off ramp. so tt's why some of us who observe negotiations andpr essor huang whose expertise is much deeper in china and trade are concerned. >> professors honig and huang, thank u for your tie. >> thank you.

>> woodruff: we turn back now to immigration and the issue of undocumented immigrains serving edhe u.s. military. for that, i'm joy our white house correspondent, yamiche alcindor. so, yamiche, we learnebolate thursday a decision by the u.s. military to discharge some of their recruits.at tell us about well, what we know is that the united states army has been secret by discharging or quietly discharging a number of immigrant recruits according tor recent r by the associated press in our own "newshour". the associated press isth reportine are immigrants who joined the army reserves or army and told they could have a path to citizenship if theliy ed. they tid that, now they are being told they have to go. out 40 people are impacted by this. an immigration attorney we talked to at "newshour" said she heard from dozens people who are impacted by this. these immigrants are being told either nothing about why this ip

ing or they're being told they are security risks because they have family abroad or because th the department of defense could notmplete their background check. we talked to a dtepartm of defense person who said the government wants to fast track these people and wants to take a quick pathers and if given enough time they could do that. the army isn't commenting. in the meantime, i traveled to salinakansas, to report about another group of young immigrants: recruits in limbo. john candido proudlyears his army t-shirt, a gift from military recruiters who hope he might one day join their ranks. >> i've always wante enlist in the military. it's just always been a dream. ea>> alcindor: but, his drhas been delayed for three years and counng. john is a so-called reamer" and a recipient of daca. that's the obama-era effort to protect young undocumented

immigrants brought t country as children.s that program icaught in political limbo. from 2014 to 2016, daca recipients could earn a path to citizenship by enlisng in the military and completing basic training through a program called mavni. that stands fo"military accessions vital to national interehe but by 2016, tilitary had identified security threats within the program. in response, they stopped accepting new recruits, and those already enlisted, like john, were subjected increased, lengthy vetting. the result: he might be waitinge indefi. >> my whole life is just limbo. it's just kind of, you're on an island by yourself waiting whi the rest of the world is just going on. >> that's my big concern, is that we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. >> alcindor: army veteran todd weiler oversaw troop recruitment for the department of defense during the obama and clinton administrations. >> there are some legitimate security concerns that need to be addressed, but to lump theca ecipients in with folks

from iran or iraq that you may have concerns about, it justke doesn't ense to me. >> alcindor: mavni started undee president geor. bush as awa to recruit immigrants with much-needed foreign language or medical skills. in 2014, president obama opened the program up to daca recipients, promising them a path to citizenship. do youhink the country is now breaking a promise it made to you? >> oh, absolutely. a i know if i maontract with the government and then i backed out, or i kept giving them infinite deadlines, probably wouldn't go very well. you know, i swore in; i d the paperwork. i did everything. i signed on the dotted line. .held up my end of the de but the government's just like void. >> alcindor: about 900 daca recipients are currently serving , the military or have signed contracts to servecording to the pentagon. immigration lawyers told the newshour, around 300 are still waiting to ship off to basic training.

weiler fears that these men and women are now vulnerable. ow they came out of the sh they signed up for the military. if we're not going to honor that contract, then we need to figure out how we're going to separate with these folks. and in a way that doesn't flag them for deportation. >> our military is very depleted, but it's rapidlyin gebetter. and in a short period of time, it will be stronger than it hase ever >> alcindor: another frustration for john? reports of top shortages across the military. >> they're like, oh, we're having crazy sho, ages for pilodics, and they're issuing out waivers, because... more waivers where people have smoked marijuana bef ce... they haminal records. i'm like, i have none of those things. can i please just enlist >> alcindor: john's family came to thenited states from brazil on a tourist visa when he was eight. that visa eventuly expired, but his family never left. john, who is 28 now, only learned he was uocumented eight years ago, when he married

his wife jordan. >> you thought you were home your whole le. and then, like, somebody turned the light on and you're not in your hou. >> alcindor: he had hoped that by promising to serve, he could finally make up for being the country illegally. the day he enlisted was emotional. >> i swore i i cried there. i didn't even cry on my daughter's birth, which is bad, but you know, it was rolling down my face. >> alcindor: john, who currently installs phone lines, sees the military as a way to a better life. but congressman steve russell, a republican from oklahoma and a l retired arutenant colonel, says military service should not be used to resolve immigration problems. >> i don't have any issue with serving alongside immigrants. my goodness, if thatthe case in the military, then i probably never could have served a day. but nevertheless, we don't need to change what the good policies are to accommodate somebody's agenda or somebody's scenario. >> alcindor: russell thinks daca recipients should have to become permanent residents prior to m serving in theitary.

he supports a proposal byre president trume an eventual path to citizenship for dreamers, in exchange for funding a wall on the southern border and curbing other types of legal immigration. >> we see a lot of unfortunate stors with those in a daca status. that is why i think we need to resolve it i think president trump honestly had probably the best deal laid on the tle early on. >> alcindor: john also backs the president. he blames congress, not mr. trump, for his uncertain status. >> i honestly feel like trum is doing his best, the administration is doing its best. >> alcindor: he is desperate for a final decision, ev if it means returning to brazil. i so deportatibetter than limbo for you? >> yeah. at least it's an answer.t' at leasta no, instead of a maybe. i would prefer no deportation. i would prefer to enlist and go to basic and show how american i am, and you know, i really want to be here. but it's just, at least, at ast it's an answer. >> alcindor: for now, john candido continues to wait, untia

a policye from washington or a go-ahead from the military decides his fate. for the pbs newshour, i'm yamiche alcindor in salina, kansas. >> woodruff: now, presidentou trump's rarally in montana. as william brangham reports, , was a campaign-style speech from the presidelled with now-familiar attacks on political targets and some , notable false statementsl in an effort to rev up his base. >> brangham: the president was in great falls, montana, to support the senate bid of republican matt rosendale. rosendale is trying to unseat incumbent democratic senator, jon tester. >> a vote for jon tester is a vote for chuck schumer, nancy ( audience reacts ) and the new leader of the

democrat party, maxine waters. >> brangham: in the hour-long speech, the president ran through many of his favorite topics, celebrating his moves on immigration, tax cuts and jobs, and continuing to attack obamacare and hillary clinton. but there were also the president'now-regular exaggerations and falsehoods. he misstated his electoral win, u.s. energy exports, how he'd been cleared of collusion with russia by congress. in attacking democrats on immigration, he again falsely implied that immigrants commitri high levels of and are an economic drain on america. studies show immigrants commit less crimes, compared to native- born americans, but that's not how the president frames it: >> the democrats want openhi borders, means lots of crime. we want tough, strong, protected borders. and we want no crime.

a vote for the democrats in msnovember is a vote to le3 run wild in our communities. toet drugs pour into our cities and to take jobs and benefits away from our hard- working americs. and we are not letting it happen. >> brangham: the presidentlso mocked the slogan for geor h.w. bush's effort to boost volunteerism, "a thousand points of light." >> thousand points of light. what the hell was that? >> brangham: and he again went after massachusetts democratic senator elizabetwarren, a woman he repeatedly calls "pochohantas" because she's said she has native american. ancest >> let's say i'm debating pocahontas. i promise i'll do this-- you know those kits they sell on television for $2? learn your heritage? we will take that little kit-- d but we have toit gently. we are in the "me too"ge ration. we will take it, very gently, and slowly toss it.

>> brangham: rosendale'sai ca hopes the president's visit will boost his chances in november. he's currently polling severalte points behiner. for the pbs newshour, i'm william brangham. >> woodruff: and late today,ge jenna bush defended her grandfather's "thousand points of light" phrase to highlight community volunteer pr. she tweeted, "a point of light was a vision about servingot rs, one that lit up our country, one i hope our country hasn't lost." umat the rally, president also briefly mentioned his n search for tion's next supreme court justice. his pick could end up shifting the court's ideological tilt for years to come. the starting point was a short list with the names 25 potential nominees. most news reports of late have focused on these three: 53-year-old brett kavanaugh, a federal appeals urt judge in washington. 51-year-old raymond kethledge, from the appeals court based in

cincinnati. and 46-year-old amy coney barrett, from the appeals court in chicago. some conservatives have taken sides-- like in these opinion columns-- lining up behind their favorite finalists. some social conservatives, in boosting barrett, have raised doubts about kavanaugh's commitment to their cause, spurring others to defend kavanaugh's conservative judicial record. >> i have dedicated my career to public service. >> woodruff: kavanaugh's lengthy shington resume includes a stint working in presidentor w. bush's white house. mr. bush nominated kavanaugh to his current judgeship more thane a dego, and it was justice kennedy-- a former boss of kavanaugh's-- who did the swearing-in. "kennedy clerk," "bush nominee," and "experienced judge"-- those are all kebels that fit ledge as well. buasmost of his legal career been in michigan, and at the appeals court in ohio. barrett clked for a different

justice-- the conservative icon antonin scalia. she was a notre dame law professor up until last year, when president trump nominated her to the federal bench. at her confirmation hearing, t catholic barrett was sharply questioned by senar dianne feinstein about her views on religion: >> i think whatever a religion is, it has its own dogma. the law is totally different. when you read your speeches, the conclusion one draws is that the dogma lives loudly within you. >> as i said to the committee, i would faithfully apply all supreme court precedent. >> woodruff: social conservatives rallied behind barrett after that exchange, as they are now, while the president coiders his options. and that brings us to the analysis of brooks and klein. that is "new york times" columnist david brooks, and ezr kl vox.com.

mark shields is off this week. welcome to both of yal. so much to about, but we're going to start, david, with where we just lefoff, the supreme court vacancy. ng course, we don't know what the president is go do, but if it's down to these three, what does that tell us about what he wants the supreme court to be, abs out hithinking about replacing justice kennedy? >> well, it's like we got our old republican party back because these three are not trumpy people, they are pretty elite, pretty established, and it's a testimony to the federalist society, which is conservative legal society that started in the 1980s designed geships,talent into jud and they've done a fantastic job over the last several decades of producing just this funnel of talent that goes up to all the courts but especiallthe supreme court, and, so, whoever the republican president is, there is just this whole series of theme who are well called, pretty temperate, well connected with each other and they're just ready made.

so it's made to order. it's not a trumpy set of peoite, a very establishment set of jurists. woodruff: establishment set, eds ezra? >> i think it's right. donald trumpade a deal wit the republican establishment, you don't like me, i definitely ido not like you, butf you unit behind me, you get your supreme court picks. he brought out a document and said these are the people i will make good at. there are a lot of place where ise's been an unusual president, but these are not different picks than what we would ha expected from a president ted cruz. where we think is a bit of betrayal, donald trump is also making a deal wito vters and saying i care about medicare, medicaid, social security, i won't let anybody hurt these programs and some of these picks, particularly cavaugh, they're very pro business, very anti-safety net, ani-government action pick. by the same token by which ted cruz could be making the picks, a lot of republicans like donald

trump ecause he wasn't lie ted cruz because he was supposed to be more of a populist and that islso absent from this process. >> woodruff: what about this what appears to be open squabbling among social conservatives who would prefer amy barrette to cavanaugh. >> this would definitelye in the bottom five%. most social conservatives are more for bar bared, some for optical reasons as roe vade is going to be a big issue, a woman on the court, they would like to get out of the e'svard-yale group and s slightly outside that group. cavanaugh is more brugd in to the conservative establishment here. as ezra said, he has a muc bigger record on economic and regulatory issues than e does. she's more cloicial conservativa and a lightning rod whenin dianne feinstarted to question her catholic dogma and

that became a rallying cry foral soonservatives. the cavanaugh people are not against barrette, vice versa. >> woodruff: we're maybe making too much of this? >> we'll see. it depends on who he picks. i agree it's not a huge feud inside the republican party right now. >> woodruff: and we don't know. we have to keep stressing dont's know what he's going to do till the announcement >> that's going to be the name of my memoir for the trump administration, "of course we don't know wehat the prsident will do." >> woodruff: we'll remember that. another personnel move this. we this one is on the way out, ezra, scott pruitt, the head of the environmental protection agency, a lot of news stories about him over the last year or so about alleged ethical lapses, some of them have been born out, others are still being investigated. does this tell us something about the preside hanging on to him so far, or is it he's done and we move on to the next chapter? >> i think, if we just let this be a move on, we will have made a big mistake.

yes, this tell us a lot about president trump, about their management style. scott pruitt's level of corruption was a magnificent eing, something i'v almost never seen. the thing i think showed about the trump administration, i think we've seen this in other places, too, is they've become so used to outrage, they have this whole idea about triggering the libs, doing things their opponents don't like, and there is such eep tbalism that it begins to destroy their own immune system for seeing when someone is a detriment to them, their administration. it was powerful in 2016 for donald trmp to run as a guy who will drain the swamp, and against the perks like hillary clinton took when they left office. he will get tagpeged witople using the public dime take first class flights and building fancy

telephone booths. the fact this guy was deeply corrupt, its says a lot about our maggot style and what their -- their management style and what their bli spots are. >> it's like the normal person, do i get a sweetheart wife deal connected to loa byist. normal red flags, i could get in rrouble, but he did this ove and over again where the red flags weren't going off. to me, the bigr problem within the e.p.a., it did became vipers attacking each other. there was no camaraderie, no sense of we're part of this together, and people have been fling agency, trump appointees have been fleeing ior months because the atmosphere was so poisonous. and so the core issue here is character and he seems to lack character, have a vicious or violent character, at the same time he's trying to maneuver tok get jobs lsecretary of state and attorney general. so, you know, character is

destiny, i guess except in the oval office it doesn't matter. >> woodruff: i want to get to immigrasion. i want t you both about the president's spee last night, some of the things he said. we've heard him, ezra, go after elizabeth warren. there was, of course, the points of light comment, which you could interpret it as a criticism of president george h.w. bush, but there were moe comments, maxine waters, the congresswoman from cnia, then getting it wrong about ronald reagan and the elctoral college and wisconsin and you could say we're making too much of. this is this more to have the same of trump? does it stick or lan?d anywhe the crowd seemed very enthusiastic. >> we are making too much of. this this is on a night when donald trump's unbelievably corrupt e.p.a. chief resigns, on a night they name billchine ousted as depieuty of staff,

and on any other night he can mount the stage and launch insults and the media will sort of rush to cover it and he's back on ground that's firm, i'm against them, they're against me, my enemies are your enemies. there's no lot of new information encoded in these rallies. at some point, i wonder when web stop letting h our assignment editor this easily. i mean, you will remember when barack obama or george w. buwosh d go to an ohio steelworking factory and they would get no coverage for a carefully worded speech compared to what donald trump gets for these off the cuff monologues. i think it says something bad about us. >> woodruff: he's not our e assignmeitor but we do spend a few minutes on it. we fell into that. >> i think you're right, we don't want the guy to conr trol ain, and yet it's like the end of the roman empire and he'r

a mat that. one has to say, well, we have to keep objecting, andhere are tidbits that are psychologically interesting, the fact he doeknst what the thousand points of light is, what's it about,e beca involves empathy. that's characteristically interesting. but i think breaking free from the entertainment zone he creates is probably on the balance. ezra hapersuaded me to go against my earlier -- >> ha ha. >>oodruff: let's talk abut something that's been in the news every day this week and for weeks is the immigration, the really, some of them horrific, stories of children, after being separated from their children. lisa desjardins reporting about this lawsuit tt a number of democratic attorneys general have filed, the trump administration saying you've got to stopin trechildren this way. we've heard more of it tonight. is this something that is rubbing off on the pre?side are people separating it?

are his supporters simply looking at that and saying, oh, it's just the left and the press going after him aain? >> i remember when cay trifa na happened. the first night mark shields and i saw it on livwee tv, wre appalled. when we see what's happening with the kids that literally reminds me of katrina, and it niouldn't be hap in this country, it's abhorrent. but with katrina, we've seen a big lift in the president's approval rating. there's slight decline in the president's approval lating last week. to me the tribal warfare h become so rigid it's almost as if nothing can movye anthing. while we see images which should be horrific of anybody of any political persuasion, it doesn't seem to move politics. i think that's right. the place where i want to push i this -- and it's not about the politics, b's about the false choice we are being offered. what the trump adminion

said is we have two choices, one is we can treat families c unimaginabuelly by separating them from their children or detaining the whole familynor as long as they t to, or we cannot enforce our laws. both to have the fir options are illegal. courts ruled against the indefinite detention of the family and separating children from the family, at ths point. they're doing something we know is not allowed by the courts. they're saying, on the other hand, we have to enforce the law. we could give ank bracelets which we've done before. folks who have already passed an interview, if they have a credible threat back home, ifan they hav ankle bracelet, 90% of the time -- >> woodruff: they stay. cruelty is not the only choice. we can be a better country while still following the laws reand still make eople show up and making sure we're secure

and we should be.sa >> i would jus democrats seem to be walking into the trarntion ateast some the by saying let's get rid of i.c.e., which strikes me as purnee mad on the other side because this is an actual agency that does good things like fight trafficking, so democrats walking to the other extreme are making a polilcally and aso immoral calculation. >> woodruff: but is this y,family separation poloes it say something, david, about the president, about hils vaues, or is it just -- >> well, i would put it in a global context. a lot of countries are disturbed by a number of people crossing their borders. to keep those people out, it takes cruelty, and, so, you cod either ways to do it in the least cruel possible we're or you can say going to show some real cruelty and that will deter people from coming here, anruthe administration has clearly made that choice and they're mormfe

table with the levels of cruelty than i think most of us would be. >> woodruff: we're going to ledae it there. d brooks, ezra klein. thank you both. >> thank you. >> woodruff: finally tonight, a sit with comedian dave chappelle, and how he's returned in a major way this past year. jeffrey brown has a look at how chappelle's standup shows on netflix are getting lots of attention, but are also the subject of criticism in a way that is different from the past. >> brown: ask dave chappelleth abou"job" of being a comedian, he says this: >> i don't think people pay money to see a guy speak precisely and carefully.th i don'k they want to pay to see somebody worried about the repercussions ofthey say.

iney just want to see someone try to get at somehonest, or maybe something relatable, or have some fun with sometthng. don't yok it suspicious, just a little bit suspious, that every dd black person police find has crack sprinkled on them? i mean, come on. >> brown: beginning in the mid- '90s, in tv specials.. >> good evening and welcome to the first, and maybe only, racial draft in new yorkity. >> brown: ...and his brilliant comedy ce"al "chappelle show," dave chappelle made a name for himself as one of the smartest and sharpest comedia around. always unpredictable, but alive to the craziness and contradictions of american culture, especially the way it deals with race. >> for shizzle. >> brown: he walked away from the limelight for nearly anl decade, makingoccasional appearances. >> this is the age of spin. >> brown: but starting last fall, he returned in way, releasing four netflix specials, winning a grammy for bes album, and touring the country

with his standup. we talked recently before a shos at francisco's historic fillmore auditorium. >> i started really young, so you've got to think, liksh this relati i have with an audience is one of the most tent relationships that have in my life, at my age. this idea of talking to people this way and them listening. it means a lot for people, to be le to stand up somewhere and say, this is what i think or this is how i feel. i'm black, but i'm also dave chappelle. >> brown: there's still plenty of side-splitting humor, and chappelle's continued to push buttons, but now many are pushing back, critical of s jokes involving transgender pele, for example, and par of his routine that focus on sexual misconduct charges against prominent men, including fellow comedian louis c.k.hi >>is, like, where it's hard to be a man. s one lad, "louis c.k. masturbated in front of me,

ruined my comedy dreams." word? ( laughs ) well, then, i dare say, madam, you may have never had a dream. ( laughs ) come on, man. that's a brittle spirit. ( laughs ) >> brown: a regular theme for chappelle now: that americans today are overly sensitive about what can and cannot be sd in public. i asked if he felt that way. >> yes and no. sometimes i think that we're painfully desensitized becausear we're bod by so much information. and then othpe times i think le who are outraged by it, it's just a lot to be mad at, especially whechyou know so so i think it's a challenging me, i think in a time li that, i for one find solace in the arts. i don't have to agree with all the art consume, but it helps me understand how i actually feel about it. >> brown: are you surprised by the criticism that's come your way?

>> no. and i don't mind that people get upt. i think that, you know, some of this criticism is helpfu i get educated by it. i don't necessarily agree withut all of it, learn about a lot of things just from my critics. >> brown: one recent special, titled "bird revelation," began with chappelle thinking aloud about hur's boundaries. >> i say a lot of mean things, but you guys got to remember, i'm not saying it to be mean. i'm saying it because it's funny. ( laughter ) and everything's funny till it happens to you. >> brown: if bad things happen s eone else, that's not necessarily funny.th >> look at i way. i grew up in the crack epidemics i tell jbout it, in the crack epidemic, and now there's the opioid epidemic. are they treating the opioid epidemic the way they d the crack epidemic?

no, this is a "national health emergency." naen we were coming up, we were policed by the natguard. addicts were criminals. now, they're saying addicts are "sick" people, and mt's because thdemographic of the opioid epidemic is not the same demographic of the crack wnidemic. >> bracially. you're talking about race. >> right. so now that your community is getting destroyed, it's a whole other ball game. it's a huge window of empathy. oh my god, we can see each oth we both went through similar pain. i'm just saying, "everhing's funny until it happens to you" is more about empathy. there but for the grace of god. scary being a white dude now, isn't it? a little bit, no? well, you're not going to get" me too-ed." you know what i mean. it's funny for a black dude to see white people go through this, because this is how it always is for us. all my heroes were either

murdered by the government or are registered sex offenders. ( laughter ) >> brown: in the "me too" moment, does that change the line for you of what you feel you can say or not say? >> honestly speaking? i have no idea. i don't know. 're all figuring this out i think at the same time together. as a comedian, that can be ave very difficult thing not to talk about. as a human, it's a very difficult thing not to feel, to be indifferent to.er here you look in america, everyone's pushing the line, ith one way or a. we got this president because people was like "we've got to push the line." and we have this movement becauspeople were like, "we've got to push the line." so this is a really bu time. i don't know what the line is. but there's a lot of change,

obviously, bill cosby was a hero to me... >> brown: chappelle often talks of bill cosby in his routines. >> ...it'd be as if you ard that chocolate ice cream itself had raped 54 people. you'd say to yourself, "oh, man, but i like chocolate ice cream. i don't want it to rape." b wn: our conversation took place soon after cosby's conviction, and chappelle spoke of watching one of thems outside the court. >> i remember seeing her sobbing. and the emotional content of her crying-- i can't, only she known what that to her. but justice was meted out for this woman. and it didn't look gleeful. you know what i mean?

like, it's tough to see your heroes fall, let alone be a viain. i was explaining to some of my younger family members, like, who he was at one point, juxtaposed to what's happened now. it's astounding. and it's sad for everybody. it's very, very-- very, very, it felt like this is importt. >> brown: dave chappelle says that while he walked away from all this once, he continues to enjoy getting up on stage." sometimes", he told me, "i have things to say." for the pbs newshour, i'm jeffrey brown at the fillmore auditorium in san francisco. >> woodruff: and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. have a great weekend. thank you and good night.

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♪ -next, a "kqed newsroom" special on the arts. -♪ his love -sometimes it takes more than a 90-minute, intermissionless play to kick somebody outekf their 40-hour work -an entertainer's take on american history and a world-renownedrtist tapping the global refugee crisis. -you know, they all have families, have children, and we cannot pretend we are naive on ose issues. -plus the joy served up by the coolest museum in town focused on something sweet. -when you senethe power of human cion in such a simplified form, i think it can be a great example of how we should move forward as a country. -hello. i'm thuy vu. welcome ed a special edition of "ewsroom" about arts and culture. on this program, we're revisiting stories from our archives with innovative and influential figures in film, the performing arts, and visual culture. we begin with the role of comedy in today's political climate.