welcome to amanpour on pbs. tonight it would have been nelson mandela's anniversary and nothing has been felt more acutely. i hope -- look back on his unity over division. joining me is andrew who was jailed alongside of him for a quarter of a century and the activist who became a high level british cabinet in a stir. can president trump mend the damage done to national security at the summit with putin? my conversation with ryan costello.

welcome to the program, i am christiane amanpour in london.>> nelson and ella provides us with release -- relief to reflect on a great leader. he embodied the end i -- i days we can aspire to. forgiveness, dignity, passion, truth, reconciliation and so much more. even in the face of unbearable sacrifice and humiliation. even at his lowest separated from his family, languishing in prison for nearly 28 years, he always insisted that hope is the most powerful weapon. in the spirit of that hope, we take this opportunity to reflect and maybe group as the democracy come under threat in

the political and social discourse is infected with so much poison. when south africa's white minority government set mandela free , he for gave and united nation. speaking the day of his release in 1990, he spoke the same words upon being sentenced in 1964. laying down his vision for blacks and whites living in a democratic and free society. >> i hope to live for and to achieve. but if need be, it is for which i am prepared to die. >> in his first major speech since leaving office, america's

first black president, barack obama brought this message to south africa and the world. >> i believe and nelson mandela's vision. i believe in a vision shared by gandhi and king's and abraham lincoln. i believe in a vision of equality and justice and freedom and multiracial democracy built on the premises -- premise that all people are created equal and they have certain inalienable rights. i believe that a world governed by such principles as possible. >> to reflect on that possibility and on his unique legacy, i spoke to andrew mlangeni , the activist who stood trial and was in prison with . he is 93. also good things for south

africa.

we get there freedom. .>> peter, you were born in south africa. your parents were prominent anti-apartheid activists. you head to flea. you have written this amazing book. if andrew was there on trial by the white institutions, you are part of the white family of south africa and your family was fighting for justice. how did you feel then and how to feel today? >> by then, at the time of the trial in 1964, my parents were band and not allowed to attend the trial because of the orders of previously being jailed. i was only 14 and strongly in support of nelson mandela and andrew and the other comrades on trial but i parents were one

of a tiny, tiny minority of the white community who took action and solidarity. alone amongst the relatives and friends and there was other people like them but they were a tiny minority. i am proud of that. >> i want to read something that you said at the trial. in ravinia you are convicted alongside mandela and they accused you of conspiracy and sabotage. the judge likened this to high crimes and treason. you said that at the time, i thought of life imprisonment and what it meant. did it mean that i would spend the rest of my life in prison to be released as a corpse? was there a chance i might be released sooner. would i serve 15 years? these were the thoughts of a young andrew, andrew mlangeni.

how did you feel when you are convicted and you knew you were going to an island to spend who knew how many years there? >> i was sent -- happy to be sentenced to life imprisonment because we escaped the death penalty. we all felt very happy. we said well, life imprisonment we can save it. we don't know anyone who has been sentenced to life in prison but people do 15, 20 years, etc. etc. people come out. we are very excited and happy that we were not sentenced to death.>> let me play what nelson mandela played -- said

as he was released in 1990. i want to see a little bit of him. he was at desmond tutu's house.>> i must confess i am able to describe my emotion. i was completely overwhelmed by the enthusiasm. it is something i did not expect.>> i want to ask you peter, he was very humble and he said he had no idea he would be remembered as that and also the incredible emotions that poured out. one of the most remarkable things about mandela, you say, was his ability to let go of resentment. as he walked out of prison, you say, he said, yes, i was angry. i was not free for so long. when i felt the anger i realized if i hated them outside of the gate, they would still have me. i wanted to be free so i let it

go.>> that is remarkable.>> is a deep insight. a remarkable one that he came out determined not to show vengeance, not to show hatred because as he says in that quote, the very revealing quote that if he did he would be trapped. after all, the white minority was a very privileged minority. the most privileged in the world in recent times and it was preceded -- persuaded to give up its power and place in government by negotiation.>> andrew, do you remember that moment when the whole world was watching? the release, what emotion did you feel? >> well, i was quite happy. to see him come out, i said to myself that the government at last has kept their promise. after a few months, it will

follow. the release of christiane amanpour -- mandela to see how the people were going to behave. if you release mandela , the country will go up in flames. that is what they were saying. the country will go up in flames. we knew we would have to see how people behaved. >> i didn't know that. that is a great story. he gave up the anger and he decided to forgive and move on. were you angry when you came out? where you resentful of the injustice of all those years being in prison? >> all of us, all of us decided

already that we cannot honor our own at that time. we did not have the knowledge of governing the country. we were denied all the other things that the white people, white children had. we did not have that. the whites in south africa live together and we have to work together with them. try to bring peace in the country.>> said there is a wonderful picture of you together. if i'm not mistaken, is that rama pose a? that is the current president that i spoke to in january about his legacy and there has been so much disappointment in the last several years that the corruption and the increasing inequality between the haves and haves not. the blacks and the whites.

i want to play you what today's president told me about his determination to follow through.>> nelson mandela is our lone star the one who led us out of the depression. he is the one who gave us freedom and we are going to make sure that we do not soil this freedom that nelson mandela gave us and i wanted to take nelson mandela's dream forward and i am determined to do so.>> i -- it is no secret that the dream has been betrayed.>> that is said but that's largest -- largely true. just think about this, the economy is controlled by whites entirely. i haven't made this point.

if the anc had driven the whites away, there was be an exodus.>> i wonder how you feel, andrew. you are an elder statesman and a senior citizen and have been through all of this. it said many young south african blacks felt or feel somewhat betrayed by the white elite still holding the reins of the majority of economic power. as peter has said, there were reasons for that. do you think it will come full circle? will the young black population be better to get -- able to get a look in on the economic ladder? >> the youth of today feels like the anc has sorted them out. we don't agree with them. they are of the view that they

should make immediate changes in the first five years. take over everything. black people and everything which is not possible at all. first of all, the army of south africa was still under control of whites -- what commanders. they immediately organized a coup and overthrew the anc government. to go through the extremes would have been dangerous.>> i would like to take -- play another soundbite from way back when when anello was released. he gave an interview to cnn and he's -- talked about that.>>

people talk about the years you have wasted. your life. the greatest thing for a politician is whether the ideas to which you have committed your life are still alive. whether these ideas are likely to triumph in the end. everything that happened showed that we have not sacrificed in vain. >> a remarkable thing to hear today. particularly, i want to ask you both to put mandela and his vision and his nature as a politician in context. the leadership struggles we see today all over the world where we have poison in our bloodstreams today. how do you feel when you listen to this kind of thing given

what is happening in our own parliament and congresses and governments around the world, peter? >> first of all, to deal with the inpatient of the young. there is 400,000 extra black students and universities since the anc came into power. it was not as quick as we would have liked but there has been big change. i think the world is crying for nelson mandela's prison. you compare him with president trump and the rest of them. they are in that for themselves. he was in it for others. ruling with absolute integrity. social justice, equality, human rights, democracy. i think we can do with strong leadership but compassionate leadership for everybody and not just a select few.>> it is

missing mandela's leadership.>> i appreciate that.>> andrew mlangeni, you are about to receive the freedom of london and well-deserved. 93 years old and after all your struggles and thank you for being with us. peter, thank you very much.>> pleasure. a vision of unity from mandela but trump has a divisive style. his power rest on deeply loyal voters representing 45 % of all americans but after the president's controversial comments along vladimir putin in helsinki and after his assertion today that russia is no longer targeting the united states elections which directly contravenes his direct -- dan coats, this issues -- issue dampened the enthusiasm of his supporters. a republican congressman for pennsylvania russels with the

politics every day. he has chosen to withdraw from reelection. reaction and part two today's toxic politics. welcome to the program from washington.>> please to be with you.>> tell me how you are digesting the whiplash that never stops with blessing. yesterday the president did -- he said he does not believe that the russians are in fact, hacking into current election processes which goes against what his the and i says.>> it is like charlottesville in that respect. he issued an apology and he walked it back. in this case i think the initial damage was done and is irreparable for purposes of the russians thing able to use the press conference as propaganda moving forward to say that no, we don't interfere with elections, that is silly. it is true and true in the

united states of america and true across the globe. what happened today in terms of feeling they are not interfering really goes back to reinforcing the press conference. i don't look at his mea culpa yesterday as having any effect other than allowing some members to accept it so they don't have to deal with the issue.>> i am going to get to what you say but i want to ask you, you said damaging. is this dangerous for america's national security and is there is serious move from what came out of the meeting? >> i don't know what kind of movement is afoot in order to have that happen. i doubt we will get a verbatim transcript. i expect we will get an

official or two where the president to briefly summarize what was said behind closed doors. the problem with that is that russia, on their television is already representing what deals were and what was agreed to. who knows if there is a conflict there? the other question relates to the national security. what is unsettling here is what can happen within the borders of our country relative to russia and as much as it is a country like montenegro and countries in nato seeking to enter into nato and when you have russian interference in those countries in order to get proxy candidates elected so that more countries don't join nato, that has the impact of

potentially destabilizing nato aligned countries. as i say, that is the danger.>> let me ask you that. the president is doing whiplash because he denigrated nato and then he said they were strong. in an interview with fox news, he said the following about nato and monta green tow. >> wash of my son go to montenegro to defend him from attack? >> i asked the same question. montenegro is a tiny, tiny country with strong people.>> they are very strong people with very aggressive people.>> congressman, you get it. you raised it. does the president not get that that was nato and a real power play vacuuming up montenegro so russia could not get it and russia is busy putting bases in montenegro trying to extend

influence.>> you are totally correct. added to that russia and bosnia nationalists sought to a coup d'tat a few years ago and were opposed to montenegro joining nato and appoint him -- upon him joining, russian leaders were critical. the whole purpose is to allow the small countries entry so we don't have world war. he can gobble up small companies -- countries of 600,000 people and all of the sudden they own more territory with more ports and natural resources and more strategic geographic locations. that is the whole point of what nato is. when he says that, it is a total miss reading of what the point of nato is. it makes me shake my head in

disbelief.>> congressman, you accurately say there is no way to get a verbatim from that meeting but you all need to know what was said in the meeting. we know that vladimir putin wants to have its own influence and try to get trump to agree to that. don't you need to know what was said in the meeting? what deals were made if any? >> listen, i want to know. i think the american congress should know and the american people should know. i don't mean to sidestep the directness of your question but i have to be candid when i say i don't think there is anything that compels the presidet to disclose it if he doesn't want to. i believe the secretary of state and other officials will glean some understanding as to what was agreed to. maybe nothing was agreed to. that is the other thing. the president said russia will help north korea. he has not indicated how. we don't know what kind of discussion if any was oriented

around syria. we don't know. the other thing to note is. look at the president relative to russian interference. one thing one day and the next day he repeats what he said the first day with a variation. it is difficult and this is why you don't set up summits or meetings with foreign leaders and go into back rooms without officials because you don't know. it allows for propaganda to ensue by a state actor that wishes to do so and that is what russian -- russia is doing.>> arising lack of accountability. you are retiring and not seeking reelection and others are saying the same thing. people.to the toxicity around trump. strategist said this about opposing president's trump --

trump. they say trump is a disgrace. i give fiery press conferences saying that. nothing changes. a not beats me in the next primary. how does my political suicide help? >> a couple of things. i want to remind the audience that we have passed a defense appropriation bill that does increase defense spending. we are doing things in congress and we have put more sanctions on russia in the past year have that many previous congresses have done. military aid to the ukraine and on a whole number of issues we are still at the forefront demonstrating leadership but the president's words matter and i think the other piece of the question that i want to focus on is when the president speaks in that manner, what is the impact internationally and what is the impact politically?

here in the united states when the president speaks out and sis says things controversial or not active, it becomes a political dicey situation for a lot of republicans because the president has extremely high favorability ratings with republican voters across the country. speaking against the president will earn the ire of one's republican voters. that is the times that we live in. i don't think that showed prevent a member of congress from speaking out when they feel they need to speak out . >> on that note, thank you so much for joining us. that is it for our program. thank you for watching and join us again tomorrow night.

katty: you're watching show on pbs. the british prime minister insists there is still time to get a deal with the european union. christian: but the plan is expressed by buries johnson as hatch brexit. katty: the former foreign secretary slams the government's new idea. was this resignation speech a pitch for a new job, as leader perhaps? >> it is not too late to save brexit. we have changed tack once and we can change again. katty: and continued trump says he's been harder on russia than any other american president. president trump: i think president putin knows that