captioning sponsored by nehour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, in the hot seat-- secretary of state pompeo faces senators amid growing questions over the trump administration's relations wh russia and the u.s.' role in the world. then, a secret recording between the president and his personal lawyer surfaces: what it shows about the plan to pay off a former playboy model, and the larger questions raised about truth and falsehoods in the time of mr. trump. and, the leading edge of science: a look inside the discovery of a subterranean lake on mars. al'sthat and more on tonight pbs newshour.

>> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> babbel. a language app that teaches real-life conversations in a new language, like spanish, french, german, italiael and more. ba 10-15 minute lessons are available as an app, or online. .cre information on babbelom. >> supporting social entrepreneurs and their solutions to the worldt pressing problems-- skollfoundation.org. the lemelson foundation committed to improving lives through invention, in the u.s. and developing countries. on the web at lemelson.org.

>> supported by the john d. and catherine t. macarthur foundation. pemmitted to building a more just, verdant aneful world. more information at macfound.org >> and with the ongoing support of these institutions: s >> togram was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: secretary of state mike pompeo has spent feis afternoon ing the first trump-putin summit. but as u.s. senators turned up the heat ovehelsinki, word came that a second summit, in washington, this fall, will be delayed until next year. a statemenfrom national security adviser john bolton said, "the president believes that the next bilateral meetin with president putin should take

ace after the russia wit hunt is over." that's a reference to the special counsel's investigation. werl have a full report, af the news summary. president trump and the leader of the european commission say they've agreed to turn from tariffs to talks. they met at the white house today and afterward, jean-claude juncker said both sides will hold off further tariffs while negotiations continue. mr. trump said the e.u. agreed to buy "a lot of soybeans," and liquefied gas. >> we agreed today, first of all, to work together toward zero tariffs, zero non-tariff barriers, and zero subsidies on non-auto industrial goods. this will open markets for farmers and workers, increase investment and lead to greater prosperity in both thed states and the european union. >> woodruff: it's unclear whether the e.u. purchase ofl soybeans wme near making

up for lost sales to china. this month, beijing d tariffs on u.s. soybeans, responding to americanfs on steel and aluminum. yestday, the trump administration announced $12 billion in aid for farmers. republicans in georgia have chosen a candidate for governor, endorsed by president trump, over one endorsed by the current governor. brian kemp won a decisive victory in tuesday's runoff with lieutenant governor casey cagle. kemp campaigned on protecting gun rights and rounding up people in the country illegally. he'll face democratic nominee stacey abrams in november. the people of pakistan turned out today to elect a new parliament, and prime minister, but the voting was mby violence. in geissler of independe television news reports, from islamabad. >> reporter: pakistan's troubled election came to a bloody end

today, in the city of quetta30 more than ere killed by a suicide bomber as they queued to vote. so-called islac state claimed responsibility. just outside islamabad, bomb disposal teams checked the streets around imran khan's polling station.ed he arriv surrounded by anti terror squad officers, calm amid the chaos around him. famous former cricketer, with a privileged background and an oxford education,f e cast himselas a populist, a man of the people he's pledged to end corruption and ease poverty here. his country, he tolde, is seeing true democracy at last. has this electiobeen free and fair? >> it is one of the freest and fairest elections in pakistan. the 2013 election, all the parties said it was rigged, 22 parties said it was rigged, i was the only one who said there should be investigation.

so 2018 election, this election should be a free and fair. >> reporter: and everyone's conscience can be clear now? >> i'm clear. >> reporter: but not everyone is so sure. this campaign has been blighted by allegations of corruption. among the loudest, a claim that the military manipulated the vote in imran khan's favor. >> woodruff: that report from martin geiler of independent television news. a, healthrn sy officials say a wave of suicide bombings killed more than 200 peop. the islamic state group claimed responsibility. it happened in sweida province. that's east of where syria's military is engaged in a major offensive. one blast struck a vegetable ofmarket in the main city sweida. other coordinated attacks hit villages throughout the province. the death toll from monday's firestorm in greece rose to at least 79 today, with up to 100 missing. residents and rescue workers in chti, east of athens, sear

burned-out homes for loved ones. survivors told of watching the flames roar down on them. >> ( translated ): there was a great panic because the whole street was blocked by cars. shouting, hysteria, they could thsee the fire was coming he wind. it already smelled a lot. the sky was black. >> woodruff: flags across athens flew at half staff today to begin three days of national mourning. they're still looking foran survivorvictims from monday's dam collapse in laos. the local red cross said today workers haveound 24 bodies so far. today, survivors gathered in shters. they're among the more than 6,000 made homeless after walls of water smashed their villages. back in this country, extreme heat kept the southwest on the broil. power demand h new records around phoenix, arizona, and n mperatures headed into the triple digits agross several states.

just yesterday, deatrnvalley, cali hit a record high ofgr 12ees.tr and, on wallt, stocks rose on hopes for easing trade tensions. the dow jones industrial average gained 172 points to close at 25,414. the nasdaq rose 91 points, and the s&p 50added 25.l st come on the newshour: senators grill secretary of state mike pompeo about russia. the secret recording of president trump and a larger question of truttelling. a kind of liquid water lake found on mars, and much more. >> woodruff: the trump administration's foreign polery came uire today on capitol hill. for the first time since president trump met with leaders from north korea and russia,

secretary of state mike pompeo e s grilled at a senate foreign relations committearing. nick schifrin has the story. o> two months, two summits, mysteries-- what did the president promise in his meetings with russian presidentn vladimir put. >> it's great to beith you. >> ...and north korean leader kim jong-un. today, secretary of state mike pompeo defended the administration. but before he could even begin, republican chairmawh bob corker, is not running for re-election, unloaded on the t nationp diplomat. >> you come before a group of senators today who are filled with serious doubts about this white house and its conduct of american foren plicy. in the summit's aftermath, we saw an american president who appeared dismissive and deferential. from were we sit, it peers in a "ready, fire, aim," fashion, the ite house is waking up every

morning to making it up as they go. >> pompeo tried to reassure senators on thl russian icy, announce what he called the new crimea declaration. in 2014. after the u.s. mposed sanctions and refused to recognize crimea as part of russia. pompeo reiterated seo policies. >> i want to ensure this committee the united states does not and wil not recognize the annexation of crimea. >> both republican andcr demoatic senators expressed repeated concerns about last week's summit in helsinki, and what the president ddd and di not offer, led by ranking member new jersey democrat bob menend. >> did he tell putin i'll release or ultimately relax sanctions? >> senator, at you need to conduct your role, your appropriate role, i will provide you today. and i can confirm you that no commitment has been made to

change those policies in any way. >> the president was very clear with vladimir putin about u.s. positions. theatre u.s. positions that are the trump administration potions and he spoke about them very firmly and clearly when he met with vladimir putin. and he told you that. >> senator, i'm telling you what he had a conversation with vladimir putin about, and i'm telling you what u.s. policy is today. i understand-- senator, i understand the game that you're playing-- >>peith all due res, i don't appreciate you characterizing my questions. my questions is to get to the truth. we don't know what the truth is. let me ask youi ths: did the president say they were going to change our force structure in syria? >> senator, presidents are permitted to have conversations with their cinet members that aren't repeated in public. >> i don't know what happened in thataeeting. >>st week, director of national intelligence, dan coats, a cabinet member, admitted he hadn't gotten a read-out. toiny, pompesisted the president was communicating with his staff and being tough onru ia. >> there's a narrative that developed that somehow president trump is weak on russia, and

when in fact the-- >> well, let me just-- >> reporter: americans support the preside's outreach to russia. in a new pbs newshour/npr mar poll,59% of america think it's better to bond market a relationship with russia but they don't support thes presidenyle. 64% believe trump has not been tough enough on rusd a. 2% of americans believeel u.s. igence agencies' accusation that russia interfered in 206 over russia's denials, including 63% of republicans. pompeo insisted the president agreed with u.s. intagligence cies' assessment that russia launched an influence campaign in the 201elections. >> he has a complete and proper understanding of what happened. i know. i briefed him on it for over a year. this is perfectly clear to me personally. i am also certain he deeply respects the difficult andrk dangerous what our patriots

in the intelligence community do every single day. >> in cogress, there's momentum for a new russian sanctions package, and pompeo came out with a bill that uld trgger automatic sanctions if thete igence community-- >> so, it follows necessarily that putting on notice with essentially a fail safe, if you will, thi ngs that folls the likelihood of being successful in raising the cost in terms of how he calculates will risks associated with a wyatt range of actions. >> pompeo tred to convince kim jong-un to give up his nuclear weapons. s. intelligence believes north korea is dismantling a testingno site, buh korea has not made any other public ocncession. massachusetts det edward markey worried the u.s. wasn't getting enough. s> i am afraid that at at thi

point, the united states, the trump administration is being taken for a ride. >> fear not, senator. we have no inention of allowing the u.n. sanctions, the world sanctions, that we led the charge to have put in platoce allow those sanctions to either be lifted or not enforced. >> butven after two hours of testimony, chairman corker said he still had concerns, and he accused president trump of purposely sowing discourse in american foreign policy. >> i think you're a patriot, i tremendous fai mattis, but it's the president's actions that create tremendous distrust in our nation, among our allies. it's palpable. wewieet and talk th them. is there a strategy to this? i it-- what is it that causes the president to purposely, purposely create distrust in these institutions anwhat we're doing? >> so did secretary pompeo successfully address concerns about president trump's approach to russia and north korea?

for that we geto views from senators who were at today's hearing. we begin with senator james risch of idaho.rv he also s on the senate intelligence committee. senator, thank you very muce welcome to t program. a fellow republican, chairman bob corker, expressed very dep concerns about president trump's approach to both summits with president putin and chairman kim jong-un. and not only, that the white house's general foreign policy. do you share those concerns? >> well, first of all, bob corker is a really good fri of mine, and i have great respect for his opinion, but he and i do differ significantly on a number of these issues. i think that secretary pompeo really laid out an excellent case today about how tough president trump has been on russia, more so than any of hise predecessorst sanctions, be it money spent on helping

nato, being money spent on helping people in easternac ukraine, thet that they are absolutely refusing to acct russia's annexation of the crimea, and the list goes on and onnd on. i think he did really an excellent job ofu ptting to rest the national media's obsession with thiissue. >> as you know, a lot of people were concerned witidh prt trump's poldsicies tow russia acknowledge this administration's policies towards russia, as youd- mentiofor example sangzs with eastern ukraine-- has been tougherhan his predecessors. a lot of people are worried about the rhetoric, thef president himsnd his wavering on whether he trusts the intelligence communities' assessment othe election in 2016. >> well, look, everybody speenas diffy. certainly, i wouldn't say it the same way the president would, and nobody else would say it exactly the same way, either. but as you point out, even the--

en the prsident's enemies and his critics acknowledge that he has been tougher than anybody else. you've got to look at what a person does and not pay nearly on much atteno the rhetoric. ws far as his acknowledgment that the russiane involved in the 2016 election, secretary pompeo shot that right out of the-- right out of the chute when he started and said theen presis absolutely convinced that it happened. he trusts the intelligence agencies. i sit on the foreign-- i sit on not only the foreign relations committee, but also the intelligence commit. ai've looked at thousandd thousands of documents. everyone acknowledges that the russians were involved. i think one of the problems they have is when people try to tie that to e president saying that somehow he colluded. anere was no collusiond there's been no evidence of collusion. and i think the president, rightfully, takes exception with

people who claimat there was. >> let me switch the topic to north korea. the secretaryourse, was asked about north korea multiple tices. we've rely seen intelligence community say, yes, they are dismaniing an engine testte. but that is all that north korea has publicly done ter of denuclearization. is north korea doing enough, and is the u.s.en gettinugh, given what the secretary said, not to worry about nort north ks commitments? >> well, first of all, i've just been shocked at the national media's hunger for the president to fail on theorth korea issue. we are all americans. we should be pulling for the president to be successful in this regard. the president wasery successful in getting north koreans to reverse their position on nuclearization of the korean pbs. he should be given credit for zed fornstead of criti it. in addition to that, there have been a number of things that

have happens since they did reverse positions, not the least of which was the rhetoric stoppefrom the north koreans, and, number, two, they've quit testing. and number 3, we've seen a number of things on the ground, some of which i can talk here, most of which i can't talk about here, that indicates they are heading towards denuclearization. secretary pompeo was questioned about that. and gave some outline of it but conced that he was going to have to, in a closed session, disclosehore of wat he knows, although, those of us who have been through those closed sessions already know. i suect we're going to hae a closed session in the very near future where we have discussions of that.th but, lookis thing-- this thing is moving forward well. i've just-- i'm amazed when i turn on the tv and see the talking heads tell us oh, the president's failing on north korea. look at the years that it too barack obama to get to a very bad agreement in iran. the president wats a good agreement. let's be a little patient with

him, and give him credit for what he's been able to achieve so far. >> senator james risch of idaho. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> now for a perspective from the other side of the aisle, democratic senator jeff merkley of oregon. senator, thank you very much for joining us. secretary pompeo, is the pompeoa said that thinistration's been tough on russia, tougher than its predecessor, and that the president has th prerogative to have private conversations with his own canet, and with other leaders. were those answers sufficient? olutely not what we have seen is a president who refused to critique russia on their annexation of crimea. they're holding the eastern edge of ukraine he hasn't criticized them over the attacks on individuals in weapons.with chemica he hasn't criticized them for cozying up and supporting thet syrian governm it dropped barrel bomb on people, and h certainly hasn't criticized them for cyber attacking our and we heard nothing today to

contravene that. in fact the one thing we did hear is that there is not yet any type of agreement with north korea not even over creating an inventory of its ballistic missile and nuclear sa ieties. ant to get to north korea in a second. but the president's defenders on russia say, you are criticizing some of the president's rhetoric or lack of criticism, as you put it, but the policy ha been aggressive on russia in eastern ukraine, and, also, that the president has actually pushed forward in terms of getting rid of russian intelligence officials and closed cons laits in the u.s., something his predecessor did do. >> well, as was noted in the hearing today, the president has failed to implement of the cuts, provisions forct sanns on russia. we basically-- democrats,s republicl came together and said, "you must do this," which is just unprecedented. and the president still was ve slow to implement, very slow to

act. he's had to have been drugged into taking any type of firm stand in >>at regard. the president's defenders also say that, you know, russia and the united stes have 90% of the world's nuclear weapons. the two leaders should be talkinl don't you ve that the two leaders should be talking? >> oh, absolutely. i agree with that.s but it he to have a-- the president actually learn something about the topics before he meets with a former spy chief who is extraordinarily capable. the president came aay essentially spouting all of the sitions of the russian government instead of fighting g for the united states. we need a watchdog for the united states. we need a fierce effort to take on the cyber at united states, which really are acts of war. we need the president to say, "get those additional sanctions done. i'm going to implement them and pass th 'deter act' which would say if russia meddles in another election there will be

conseqnces." we neea tough president, not weak repetitions of talking points from our chander in chief. >> reporter: secretary pompeo said he would support a further bill that would actually impose automatic sanctions on russia or any other country that is deemed to impede in u.s. elections. do you trust and belve that the u.s. administration will actually protect this election and elections moving forward? >> well, i am pleased to hear that tneday. but we the president to actually come to capitol hill, make the case, say to the senate, "get it pad." say to the house, "get it passed. at this point on my desk." we need the president to show some leadership on this. >> on north korea, we've seen eeze in missile and nuclear tests. we've seen the closing of this engine testing site. are those signs as secretary pompeo suggested today that the u.s. and north korea are in a better place today than they were under the previous two administrations? >> you know, we've had under

previous presidenth korea do the same dance. they've put in a temporary freeze. they say they support complete denuclearization. we've even got gunn furitherth detailed agreements. this administration hasn't gotten to the detrade agreements. in fact today it was confirmed by the secretary that north korea at this very moent is continuing to enrich and createe uclear materials. >> stk pompeo, quickly, senator, in the 30 seconds we have left, secretary pompeo insisted there are other issues that have been discussed between the u.s. od north a that he couldn't talk about in open session. do you have faith that there are other issues that north korea has pledged to that will lead to denuclearization? >> no, i don't have much faith. i'm in a "show me"od we have security clarance so he could come and briefous that. isbut at thoint, there's very throitle show, other than the same dance we've seen undprer ious efforts. in fact, even less now now

because our president, up frnt, agreed not as a reward for advancing but justaise concession, tore down our joint exercises with south crazy. >> senator jeff merkley of oregon, thank you very much. >> you're welcome. thank you. al >> woodruff: theut continued today from a secret recording of then candidate trump discussing hush money to a former "playboy" model. yamiche alcindor begins our coverage >> well, thank you very much. >> alcindor: the big topic at the white house today was supposed to be trade, but when president trump and european commission predent jean-claude juncker ended the public portion of the meeting, they were sprayed with queions about something entirely different: >> did michael cohenetyo >> thank you very much. >> alcindor: this new talk about thlpresident's former perso lawyer, michael cohen, comes as a new recording has been made

public: c a september 20versation between cohen and then-candidate donald trump. cnn, the first news outlet to obtain the tape, reported that it got the recording from cohen's legal team. in the recording, cohen seems to be discussing a possible way to send payments to "david"-- davir pechairman of american media inc., which owns the "national enquirer" tabloid. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david, yoi'know, so that. going to do that right away. when it comes time for the financing, which will be-- >> what financing? >> we'll have to pay -- >> we won't >>y with cash? o, no, no. i got -- no, no, no. >> check. >> a 2016 election, the "wall street journal" reported that american media agreed to pay $150,000 to former "playboy" model karen mcdougal for her story alleging that she had an affairmr. trump a decade ago, a story that americ media never ran.

in the report, the company disputed the characterization of the payment. and then-spokeswoman hcks responded on behalof the trump campaign: "we have no knowledge of any of this." today, the dispute between lawyers for the two men, was over what was actually said in the recording about how the payment to pecker could be made. lanny davis, an attorney for cohen, told abc this: >> the word is "cash." everybody should listen to the tape to see if i'm right or not. >> alcindor: while rudy giuliani, a personalttorney for mr. trump, wrote: "why are (cohen) and lanny davis misrepresenting the language from president trump "do not pay by cash... check.'" the apparent break between president trump and his long- time associate comes despite cohen's past statements of loyalty. he told "vanity fair" magazine for an article last year-- "i'm the guy who would take a bullet for the president."si bue then, it has become public that federal authorities in new york are investigating cohen.e'

>>now dedicated to telling the truth to everyone and we'll see what happens. >> as toe twhy behind cohen's apparent break with mr. trump, davi sdenied he waill seeking a pardon for the president. for e pbs newshour, i'm yamiche alcindor. the reporter who we heard just ask the president if he betrayed him was barred from the white house from attending an open press event in the rose garden. kaitlyn colin was told by the chief of staff and the secretary that her questions were "inappropriate." we take a closer look now at what we know about he president's former weather and his legal troubles with attorne. renato mario he's a former federal prosecutor. he currently works in private practice in chicago. renato mariotti, thank you forg join. what do you hear in that recording that's significant? >> well, one thing thy hear,

judy, is asc dsion that makes it clear that the president is familiar wh this transaction, that heenes the circumstances of it. he does not seem surprised by the subject at all.ou that make it very difficult for the president or his legal team to say lat that e president had no knowledge of this matter. also, you know, the fact that he talks in the plural suggests that this isn't the first time that he's dealt with a situation like this. you know, if i had asked you, in i demanded pafrom you for information, i'm sure you'd hale of questions about it. wiewd want to know how you could be sure thathe story wouldn't get published, and you'd have a lot of questions about the details. you know, there's really not a lot of quee.ions her this seems almost like a standard transaction. the esident sugsts a number-- 150-- very quickly. and then there's, obv,ious this whole, as you played a moment ago, this whole discussion of cash. and regardless of how you read

the conversation, whether you accept mr.i' guiliversion or the version that mr. cohen's lawyer put forward, the fact that a lawyer was discussing whether or not to pay in cash for a large financial transaction is very unusual. >> woodruff: so what does this mean iterms of legal jeopardy, either from michael cohen, who we belie to be under investigation-- or for president trump? do you hear anything that crosses he line? >> well, certainly, this is-- this is a problem for-- in terms of campaign finance violations. what's been reported is that mr. cohen is under investigation for both campaign fi violations and for fraud. and as to thepa camn finance violations, there's discussion on this tape of another sort of related matter that the president suggests could be pushed off until after the election. there's a-- there's an issue of timing there. and i think that's important

because what the legsalsue is regarding campaign finance is whether or not these payments to women would be considered an expense that is relate to themp gn. typically, the president would have, i think, a very strong defense that anyone would want to hide their-- you know, their personal affairs from the public or from others and to protect their spouse and their family, regardless of wh the middle of a campaign. the fact, though, that during hethe same conversation, president is talking about timing and it appears to be related to pushing something off after the election, suggests that the purpose of this conversation and of the payment was related to the election. and i think that in particular would be problematic. and like i said earlier, the mere fact that the presidenth knows aboupayment and knows the specifics also could potentially create problems for him when combined with other evidence. >> woodruff: now, we know that this recording was-- they-- the-- they waived right of

privilege here in making it public. i think there are some-- i think i don't and many others who don't know the law-- wnt understand why would that be? why would they wai the privilege of the president, the client speaking to hisawyer? well, judy, you and the viewers at home aren't the onhoy onesant to know that. many lawyers have asked me that question over last week because-- or over the last 24 hours. because typically, lawyers are very reluctant to waive privilege. you can'ts it becau take that waimp back once you'va ed it, but sometimes waiving privilege over one recording or one docume opens up the privilege as to other documents or recordings because courts don't want to let-- d't want you to use privilege as a way of unmasking only certain things, to, you know, waive privilege over the documents, or the recordinpf that are hel to you and maintain privileges to others. so often, that could mean thatwa

privilege isved as to a number of documents or a number of recordings. so typically, attorneys are very reluctant to waive privilege. there really is no legal strategy to explain why they waived privilege here. it must be a p.r. or press alrategy unrelated to leg strategy. >> woodruff: quickly, renato mariotti, what questions do you have after this that are not answered? the question is, the questions i have relate to the fraud charges thatre supposedly under investigation by federal prosecutors. we still don't know what the looking at or what those charges are cend.tered aro >> woodruff: well, this and a number of other things areeration questions. s to. all seeking answ renato mariotti, thank you very much. >> thank you, judy. >> woodruff: as we heard,ae micohen's recording contradicts what the trump campaign said they knew about model karen mcdougal at the time. it is one of a number of false statements that, over time, have comerom president trump or a member of his team.

at the newshour, we do not report on all of them. tonight we want to step back and look broadly at president eump's relationship with truth and what it means for our democracy. let's start wi some background. >> we're putting america first again and we're seeing the incredible results. >> woodruff: when weighing what's true and what isn't, one of the president's favorite targets is the news media, and the many news organization he attacks. that was the case last night when he spoke to the veterans of foreign wars in kansas city and stirred up the crowd. >> just stick with us.t dolieve the crap you see from these people, the fake news. (applause) just remember: what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening.oo >>uff: but in just the last few weeks alone, the president has made a number of misleading or inaccurate statements on subjects ranging from russian interference in

u.s. politics to farmers and trade to how much member nato countries spend on defense. mr. trump's statements on russih have gottemost attention, particularly after his news conference with president putin in helsinki where he seemed to agree with putin instead of u.s. intelligence. >> i will tell you thatpr ident putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. >> woodruff: that brought condemnation from both political partie including republican senator jeff flake of arizona, a frequent critic. de we have indulged myths and fabrications, pretthat it wasn't so bad, and our indulgence gots the cpitulation in helsinki. we in the senate who have been elected to represent our constituents cannot be enablers of falsehoods. >> woodruff: the next day, mr. trump said he stood with u.s.. agenci but even then he put in a caveat: >> i accept our intelligenceco

unity's conclusion that russia's meddling in the 2016 election took place. could be other people also. a lot of people out there. >> woodruff: but a declassified intelligence report shared with mr. trump before he became president concluded that putin personally "ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at thes. residential election." u.s. agencies have not suggested y other country intended to disrupt the election.ie eathis month in a tweet thout the impact of foreign tariffs on farmers president wrote that "farmers have been on a downward trend foso15 years" and "a big rea is bad terrible trade deals." but that statement is not accurate farmers have earned less in the past few years, but that's not been the case for years. in fact, net income adjusted for

ination reached a record i 2013.ny and xperts say the problem has not been trade deals, but commodity prices. the "washington post," a news organization the president s regularly criticizes, kes own list.re it found thedent has made more than 3,200 false or misleading claims while in office. and that was before the start of summer. it also analyzed a speech mr. trump gave in montana earlier this month and found, 76% of the claims the president made in that speech alone were false, misleading or unsupported by evidence. the latest newshour/npr/marist poll asked whether voters think the president generally tells the truth. 58% said only some of the time or hardly ever. or most of the time.of the time republicans believed the president by a large margin.

lle poll also sked whether president trump the truth more often or less than priornt u.s. presi 56% said less often, 32% said more often. for a closer look at president trump and the matter of truth, we turn to peter wehner, a senior fellow at the ethics and public policy nter in washington. he served in the last three republican administrations, presidents reagan and both bushes. lara brown, director of the graduate school of political management at the george washington university. she's also the author of several books on presidents, including "jockeying for the american presidency." and domenico montanaro, the lead political editor for npr. and we welcome all of you back to the newshour. domenico, i'm going to start with you upon.t we were jusaring with the auence some of these poll numbers. 58% of those polled say they think the president tellshe truth some of the time or hardly

ever. how does that break down among the electorate? who are we talking aout here? >> well, and if you add "never" into there, you get to 61%. so you have a full 60-something percent of the american people who think that this presiernt eiever, hardly ever, or only some of the time tells the trh. you knownd when you look, particularly in the suburbs, where there are going to be all hoese key e races, you wind op with seeing that, you know, three-quarters of who live in the suburbs, including, especially, suburban women whe are going to key to this election, really not having a lot of faith in thiresident or his ability to tell the truth. >> woodruff: peter wehner, the fact that we're even hving ths conversation tells us that something different is going on. as we sai you have worked in the bush white house 41, 43,ou worked for president reagan. what is different? >> what's different is we don't have a run-of-the-milliar in th.

white ho we have a pathological liar. this is a man who lies on personal matters, political matters, domestic, international. he lies morning, noon, and night. and it just is never-- never-ending. so thawes one thing. ave never had a president who is so pathologically-- lies so pathologically, andalize needlessly, often. that's one. the other thing is the number of people in this country who lieve in the lies, who have accept them. this has tremendous damaging effects in the polical and civic culture of the tri. a self-governing nation can't run if you can'ohave a cmmon set of facts. if you can't agree on common realities. what you've got is a man in the white house who is engaged i not just an assault on truth but an effort to annihate truth. >> woodruff: "annihilate truth." >> yeah. >> woodruff: that's an incredible statement. >> it's true. it's not just the lies. it's that he's trying to destroy the categories of truth an falsity. and that's really why he goes

after the media, right, because the media has alwaysbeen the institution in american life that has kept president's accountable when it comes ton what's truewhat's not. and he knew from the outside of his residency that he ha to delegitimize the media, so he could get away with this kind of-- kind of thing. pagethis has an enormous se effect in the life of a country. >> woodruff: laura brown, we all know-- we talked about this before-- politicians exaggerate. presidents exaggerate. t they streuth. sometimes they have been found to be lying. why- awhat is differeout right now? what-- we hear petewehner saying this is an assault on the truth. how do you see it. >> well, i wtuld acually agree with that. i think one of the things that you with this president, especially across the administration, is a deire to lie on everything. i mean, there is such a volume of lies that it actually becom

difficult to catalog. and it creates confusion amongan the publicas a result, many people end up trying to understand what is true, what is not, and that whole conversation aboutat is truth is precisely what allows his be to continue to support him and to believe his ersion of reality and not the news media'sc atual version of reality. >> woodruff: and, yet, domenico, you watch these polls over time, going back to the caaign, among th people who support president trump, they have been willing t pretty much embrace everything he's done and said. >> absolutely. and when, you know, lara talks about being tiebl categorize untruths or scharacterizations, "the washington post" has tried to do that and has found some 3200 misleading statements or false claims by the president.

that isn't something, as you note, that's really had any effect on hi base, obviously. in this poll, the npr/newshour-- pbs newshour/maris poll, 85% of rehiblicans still support president. now, when it comes to independence, which is a really key group, they sort of turned on this president a year ago, and two-thirds of them say that they are not-- they do not approve of the job that he's doing, and they don't believe him. you know, and a lot of this also has to do with a lot of his personal attributes, his prsonal characteristics. you have 60% eople in this poll also saying that they're embarrasrd by the pesident's conduct. now, there are a couple of caveats i wanto put in he because i went back and looks at the 2016 exit polls.gh and you miremember some 60% said that president trump didn't have the tmperament to be president. they said that he wasn't qualified to serve as president. and that they would be concerned or scared if he won, and yet, he

won. and here we are. >> woodruff: pete wehner, as we look back over thet lasar and a half of the president in office, are there moments, are there statements of-- where something wasn't borne out by evidence that you think in particular stand out? >> yeah, there are several. i mean, there are so many it's hard to-- i would say the charlevoix event was very important, that there good people on both sides. i think the attacks on the mueller investigation are auextremely important be this is an investigation trying to discern truth, and he's trying to disoi it. the one where he said hillary clinton won because three million illegal votes were cast. i'll tell you one that might strike people as trivial but in retrospect is important, that was the original lie at the dawf he presidency of donald trump, and that was the crowd size, when he insisted and sent tos press secretary out insist that this was larger than barack obama's. in one sense, peoe say this is a trivial matter. who cares?

the reason it mattered is this was righout of the box-- not just a lie but it was an assault empirical, demonstrable facts. that is, there were pictures that showed the difference, and that was the a tel they a in poker that said that this guys mething different. he was going to go after truth in a way, and it's been a sustained, relentless assault on truth. >> would like to, just for a o moment, ki put some of this into historical context. when you look back at other presidents who have lie- because most presidents have in some at least minor ways, sometimes justifiable ones, and sometimes categorically wrong ones, ones that were morally problematic. you still don't see anythshg like ther kind of volume that president trump is doing. i mean, what we have when we look back at f.d.r., he even admitted that he would be perfectly willing to mislead and

tell lies if it wto win the war. and, of course, he was talkingr about world . when you look at richard nixon with watergate. that was, obviously, an obstruction of justice, and thaa becaroblem for the presidency, and it created a great deal of cynicism among the public. when you look at lynjodohnson, or you look to the "pentagon t there was know tha lying. but, again, most of these things were limited by topic or limited in damage. this is not that kind of a situation. >> woodruff: pete wehner, finally, what does ths mean for our democracy? people talk about a democracy is built on a foundation of send truths, reality. what is this doing? >> it's hurting democracy.ni it's wea the foundations. and that's why people have to stand up and speak out. democracy is about persuasion, right, not coercion. andou can't persuade people if

you can't agree on facts.g you can't evenree on common problems. beyond that, when you enter this realm, it deepens polarization. it deepens a sense of political tribalism. all of the ranr, all of th divisions are made worse. but i would say a couple of things. viruses create their own antibo do something about this. you can do it in your individual people can do it in social media. they can maket a commitmt to put party loyalties ahead of the truth when they're in conflict. they can vote against-- >> woodruff: and you think that is happening now? >> i think you are starting to get a reactioe- i'm sure you getting a reaction against it because people undd erstth the disorienting effect of this-- that's one thng but there's something else going on as well. everybody knows in yourdi dual life you can't live if you don't have a common understanding of truth, and that's true a national life as well. i think donald trump, the effect of all of this is exhausting on

the public. think they're embarrassed, as was said early, and i think they're ashamed of what's happening. and i think there will be, in 2020, and maybe in 2018, a reaction against this. this is not as if america has a terminalisease and nothing can be done. individual lives matter. if o person does something, it may not. but if a lot of people actin act together, you can change a political and civic culture. that's happened before and it can hapn peain. >> woodruff: pete wehner, lara brown, domenico montanaro, le thank you >> thank you. >> thank you. >> woodruff: finally, some tantalizing new findings aut water on mars. naturally, it raises me questions about the possibility of some kind of extraterrestrial life there. it's a perfect fit for our miles

o'brien and our weekly segment on the "leading edge" of science. amna naw caught up with him. >> nawaz: they may have long suspected it, but scientists have finally found for the first time a large watery reservoir, possibly a lake, beneath the southern ice cap of mars. radar suggests the reservoir is more than 12 miles wide and similar in some ways to lakes found beneath the greenland and antarctic ice sheets on earth.ty it's snd buried nearly a mile below the three-billion- year-oldnyce cap. for it's a huge moment. teat includes miles, who's long been covering the on the owd planet and he joins me miles, for those of us who haven't been following the red planet all these years, why is this such ag deal? >> well, amna, i guess scientists, myself, and anyone who watches this closely, would have been surprised if they didn't find liquid water beneath the surface. but it's not an easy thing to do. you know, really, when you think ab tt this, this ishe culmination benefit 150 years of

work that began witan italian astronomer by the name of chiparly, who trained his telescope on mars and sawhat he called canali, which translated should mean channels but got misotranslated int canals and started off a trend which led us to the war of thnde were really martians. this has gone on recently with nasa missions, including the path finder, curiosity, spirit, and opportunity missions, whel there were ands of inferences of past water, minda logica, that kind of thing. finally the discovery of water ice at the poles. think about it for a momenve you ll this evidence ofn distant, acient water. you've got water ice at the poles. you know you hava hot core in the middle. so if there's a hot core in the middle, ice at the poles, somewhere along wait there has to be water. that's whatheyscovered. the significance of that is on ahis planet wherever we find liquid water-- noer where

it is, the bottom of the ocean, in a hot acidic bath in yellow stoarng underneath a gacier in antarctica, wherever that may be, you find life >> it's a huge moment. let's talk about how we got here in thersiplace. what have they been looking at. what do we use, how do they know the water there. >> it's a european orbit ter, mars express. it has been in orbit for 89 faen years anhas a long-wave radar, a ground-penetrating radar that has been looking, analyzing beneath the surfafs mars for all this time. the data goes back reautlly abo a decade, and the scientists have just been trying very cahfully to make sure wat they thought they saw is what they thought. and in fact, after all these years of going through all the possibilities of what it mig or might not be, they've come to the conclusion s to be water. scientists i've talked to today say it's a very elegant piece of ecience. there's a radar rn about a

mile and a half below the surface of the south pole ice that is clear-cut signs of liquid water. >> okay, so let's hear from one of the ss cientiho is actually the lead on this research. he's a planetary scientist. this is him talking about exactly what with they did find ther take a listen. >> the radar data tell us that this water must contain a large amount of salts. this is because the ice above it is very transparent. and this would not be posble if the ice was too warm, too close to the melting point. so we have to conclude that the water in contact wh the ice must be at least minus 10, minus 20, maybe minus 30 celsius. >> so, miles, very salty water, very cold water. you mentioned lie where there is water. what can actually live in these conditions? >> well, tiny, microscopic things, t that might be the

extent of what we ultimately find, and it won't be easto do, but maybe downtown road, in the way of martians. it's important to unerstand that, you know, at that temperature, you would think it would be solid. but if it's a briny solution, if it's a seattle solution, and under pressure-- which is what you'd have in this case-- it cal stay aquid form at much lower temperatures. and that part of mars is a very cold place, indeed. the question is how would you ever verify if ere were microbes there? that would require some drilling. en i say that, some significant drilling, more than a mile and a half deep at the south pole.is >> sohat what's next? we're going to possibly see missions to drill on m >> well, the devil is in the details on that one for sure, amna, because if you think about what it takes to do,ou know, armageddon-style drilling with bruce willis on mars, it involves a lot of very heavy machinery and drill bits which is very exensive and way beyond our capabilities right now to

get to mars. one of the scientists i was talking to today, principal svestigator on spirit and opportunity, steyres, said, you know, if there's water there, it's very likely it is in the midlatitude regionsbewhich woul better place for humans to go anyway. and it might be at a shallower depth because it's warmer there. so maybe, just maybe they could do some drilling midlatitude and it would be not as deep. but either way, it's not an easy mission. so it will be-- we'll hve to sort of stay tuned as to whether there are microbes in this underwater lake on mars. >> we will be staying tuned indeed. we know you will as well. miles o'brien, always great to talk to you. >> amna, it's a e >> woodruff: on wshour online right now, a new study shows a very tiny amount of radiation from the 2011 disaster at japan's fukushima nuclear

plant has made its wo california grapes, and it could help in the hunt for fraudulent wine learn more on our web site, pbs.org/newshour. and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruf join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs ur, thank you and see yo soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> consumer cellular believes that wireless plans should reflect the amount of talk, text and we offer a variety of no- contract wireless plans for people who use their phone a little, a lot, or anything in between. to learn more,o to consumercellular.tv >> babbel. a language app that teaches real-life conversations in a new language.

>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions and individuals. >> this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcatring. and by cutions to your pbs station from viewers like you.yo than or captioning spo by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

election 2016 on pbs - one. - what's wrong with my running for president of this country? - i almost resent vice president bush your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy. - ahh! - i'm doing this because i love you. - tomorrow nigname will go on nomination for presidency. i will beat al gore like a drum. [cheers and applause] - i want my country back. [cheers and applause] - mr. president, you were elected to lead. you to follow. and now it's time for you to get out of the way. female aer: "the contenders: 16 for '16" is made possible in part by the ford foundation, working wiisionaries on the front lines