welcome to "amanpour on pbs. tonight, donald trump welcomes the european commission president to washington. will they avert a transatlantic trade war? the former u.s. treasury secretary larry summers joins me from new york. the rapid rise of french teenage football sensation, from the urban ghettos of paris to winning the world cup. welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. the white house says it will hand out $12 billion in cash to

american farmers hurt by the tit for tat tariffs. the announcement came hours after the president tweeted, quote, "tariffs are the greatest." as he sits down with europe's top official, who famously responded to trump's tariffs by saying "we can do stupid, too." now the two will see whether they can negotiate a way out of this trump made crisis. few people have more experience in making economic policy than larry summers. he served under president clinton and he's been president of the harvard university in between. he's joining me now from new york. secretary summers, welcome to the program. >> good to be with you, christiane. >> first and for most, am i right, is it a trump-made crisis? and what do you make of handing out these billions in subsidies to make up for the hurt that he seems to be causing?

>> this is a $12 billion band aid on a self-inflicted wound. there was nothing to be said for launch thing tariff war. now as many predicted americans including farmers have been the losers and now americans are going to pay to compensate the losers. the whole thing is about self-inflicted wounds and self-inflicted wounds because of higher prices for american producers are going to be less competitive because the input like steel for a car are going to be more expensive and self-inflicted wounds because obviously if we put tariffs on them, other countries are going to put tariffs on us, and that's going to make it harder for us to export and it's going to slightly difficult moment, take

the steam out of the global economy. there are real legitimate trade issues. you have to address them with a strategy, not don't stop and i'm going to shoot myself in the foot any way. >> let me pick up on that because president trump has tweeted that tariffs are the greatest and the u.s. agricultural said the following. >> this is a temporary measure and hopefully to show china and other countries they can't bully the u.s. into caving in on unfair practices and that's what president trump's tragedy is and i think it will work. >> okay, so sunny purdue there, secretary summers, is there a strategy? >> not one that i can discern. look, tariffs are taxes. they are taxes on -- that raise the price of things people buy.

they're particularly bad taxes because they are aggressive and it falls more on more on middle class and poor people and the taxes support monopolies by american firms by insulated them from competition. so the prices go up for the imports and also for the american goods that compete with the imports. so this is a tax first on middle class people strategy in a way that maximizes the burden that's placed on them. other countries are importing much less from the united states because of what we have done and not much more than what we have done. should one surgically use threats where other docountries

are behaving abusively? yes. we have taken our natural allies like canada and mexico and europe and alienated them completely. so others are all drawn together to respond against the united states. first rule of diplomacy is form a group of allies if you have an adversary. we've got some very legitimate concerns about china. but the strategy of going after the whole world of saying somehow our national security is threatened by the importation of canadian steel. strategies like saying that it is somehow going to make us richer to make it much more expensive to import car parts, which in fact will make the u.s. a much less competitive place to produce cars.

this isn't strategy, this is blundering about in anger. >> let's take the last point you just made about the car imports. jamie diamond, the ceo of jp morgan told cnn the following about the idea of the threat of tariffs on european cars. let's play this. >> if you do another $200 billion of tariffs, you are getting closer to reversing some of the benefits that we have seen in the economy. >> so bmw is the biggest exporter of american made cars. they have huge plant manufacturing in south carolina. so is it, as some have said, sort of an economic illiteracy in the white house, or is it important because it's rhetoric, it's his base, it's politics? >> i think it's a combination of

illiteracy economically, coupled with the most cravenly political approach to foreign policy that we've seen in the united states since the second world war. of pandering to the raw prejudices of people who are in the president's base. i think the advisers who are giving him this advice should be embarrassed. in all honesty, i don't understand how many people that work for this administration are able to face their children. >> you put it very bluntly and you have tweeted about that. you have questioned why there hasn't been mass resignations from the white house. you talked about the fallout from the helsinki summit and you

were tweeting after that. you are a former cabinet secretary. really, is that even likely as there ever been such a thing. president george bush took the country to war and there were not mass resignations. >> this is entirely -- the iraq war was and we now know of aagree jous poll -- egregious policy errors. even a sharp critic would not say it was an illiteracy based on pandering for politics at the time. yes, there is a tradition of honorable resignation in american politics so people in the clinton administration who i served with, who objected very strongly to president clinton's signing of the welfare reform bill and resigned. there were people in the bush administration who resigned because they felt that the united states needed to do more to stop the slaughter in bosnia.

famous hi, secretary of state cyrus vance resigned because of his opposition to the desert one invasion of iran during the hostage crisis of president carter. there is a tradition of honorable resignation in american politics, and in all honesty when we have a president who gives aid and comfort to racist, as the president did a year ago in charlottesville. when we have a president who treats president putin as a closer friend and ally than the leaders of our long-time nato partners, when we have a

president who produces the most concept of economics, i don't understand why people are so eager to hold onto their jobs that they don't resign in principles. >> going back to the base and trade and economics, the farmers have said that these $12 billion in subsidies will not make up for the amount they're losing because of the tariffs. and yesterday, president trump, you know, there's a huge controversy of don't believe your eyes, and he said the following about tariffs, and i want to ask you about what he said when we have heard it. >> other countries have tariffs on us. so when i say i'm going to put tariffs on them, they all scream, he's using tariffs. china charges us when we make a

car 25% tariff. we chart them 2.5%. other than that, it's a fair deal. similar things with other countries. like the european union. but it's all working out. and just remember what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. >> so that last phrase is what caused a huge amount of backlash. you know, the president basically saying that what's being reported is not the truth. and what i'm doing is actually working. >> is it working? do we see more american exports so far? no. do we see higher american wages, american wage growth has actually slowed. do we see more purchasing power for american workers? no. do we see american businesses

feeling that they're more competitive as they operate around the world? no. what we see is somebody who stuck a knife in your shoulder and then put an inadequate band-aid over it and says everything is okay now. this is the least well conceived international economic policy that the united states has pursued since the periods before the great depression. >> wow. >> and i suspect it will have quite serious consequences over time. >> that's what i was going to ask you. obviously the stimulus of the tax reform and all of these de-regulations, people are wondering whether these issues that you're talking about, the cumulative issues that you're talking about, are going to have a serious blowback when it comes

to global economic growth, which includes american economic growth. what's your prediction? >> you know the one thing we know that's always very hard for people to relate to is that policies affect the economy with substantial lags. this will, over time, have real consequences both economically and geopolitically. >> there was a period of the summit where the u.s. president looked weak next to a russian premier. when john kennedy wheent to his first summit in vienna early in his first presidency, he allowed himself to be bullied of khrushchev. he was terribly fearful of what the consequences would be with an emboldened russia, and he

turned out to be right with the berlin crisis a few months later and a cuban missile crisis a year and a half after that summit, two of the most dangerous moments in human history in terms of threat of nuclear war. i don't think we are not at that point but the kind of weakness our president displayed with president putin and the kind of breaking off of relations of trust and alliance that he has shown with germany and other countries in europe, over time he had no idea whether it's going to happen in a week, a month, or a year, but over time, history suggests that those things have profound, profound consequences. christiane, i was in rome about a month ago. and maybe this is too dramatic a thing to say, but all i can think of is i saw rome and i saw the coliseums, saw all of that,

was that it was a terrible reminder that pre-eminence and great strength and leadership were not forever. >> wow. on that note -- >> when they rotted away, it was from within. that's what i worry about with this president. >> we appreciate your perspective. thank you so much. of course, at heart tariffs are driven by economic anxiety. imports take our jobs. the same with migration, and the fear that immigrants take our jobs. that's what people think. president trump tends to stir up these fears both at home and abroad. remember when he said about immigrants during his visit to europe this month. just take a listen. >> i think it is changing the culture and it is a negative thing for europe. i think it is very negative. >> that's why this year's world cup and the victory of the french national team was an eye opener. 15 of the french team's 22

players, seen here with president macron, are of african descent. and mbappe is the prize of his home country. it seems that all of france poured into celebrate mostly black and arab heroes. celebrate, not demonizing them. but germany's star player pulled out of his national team after the defending champion's loss to south korea. he said, and he posted, i am german when we win, but i'm an immigrant when we lose. my next guest, a friend and a neighbor of mbappe, and he's a municipal counselor, and i spoke to him about all of this from paris earlier this evening. welcome to the program. >> thank you. >> let's talk about your friend

killian mbappe. were you surprised or were you kind of expecting him to be this successful? >> so i'm not really surprised of what he became right now, because i know his family are really good. his father and mother were my neighbors and he lives not far from my house. i can see before that the education they give to the children were really nice. big values, you know? he kept that and when we saw him playing football when he was a little children, we could see that he has some gift, like a gift in football. i am not really surprised of what mbappe became. >> you called him a child of bonde. tell our viewers in america and around the world, what is the significance of bonde, what is

life like in those suburbs? >> s >> it is a really nice place. but the reputation is not good. when we hear about bondi, we hear of bad things. we hear it is no good. it is a fake news, you know? bondi is a nice place but indeed, it is a poor area. we can find bonde, its religion, every mix of people, there is people from all around the world living together. and that is a strength, not a weakness. that strength is the bonde. >> i want to read to you what one of the other players said after the win. he said cli said now there is no color.

black, yellow and everything, we are all united. now you are all proud of us forever. is that something you feel? do you believe that the immigrant born french who made up the majority of your national team, are really accepted as french? >> of course. he's right. he said we are all french, we are all together. there is no color. but on the reality, we can take for example of what trevor said on tv. he said something very nice. he said that unfortunately when you do something good, you can be seen as a french here in france. when you do something bad, you are from the origin, you are like african. unfortunately, that's a reality in france. so i can understand what he

said. >> nabil, you know he said the same thing, when i win, i am german and when i lose i am an immigrant. i would like to play for you what trevor said on his program, and then we'll talk about it. >> yes! yes, i'm so excited. africa won the world cup! africa won the world cup! africa won the world cup! [ applause ] i get it, i get it. they have to say it is the french team but look at those guys, huh? look at those guys. you don't get that tan by hanging out in the south of france, my friends. >> what did you feel when he said that because you know your government responded very sharply, for instance, the french ambassador, by calling them an african team, it seems that you are denying their frenchness. this, even in jest, legitimizes the ideology which claims

whiteness as the only definition of being french. >> first of all, concerning trevor, the first interview from me is a little blurred line when he spoke from the tv. the second one was really clear and nice for me. he explains the things very good. he said the frenchness of the people in front of the media when they do something good. they win the world cup so they are french. sometimes when they do something bad or something that is not really nice for france or something less, they are seen as foreign people. they're seen as african people. i can understand what he said. >> so nabil, you know killian did not come out of nowhere. he came out of some important french training camp and these football camps and he got the academy. he was really trained and there

was a big effort to train, you know, people like kilian and many other foreign born and descendent in france. but as you say, that's that. and then you have this study that was done in france not so long ago, which shows that a huge proportion of people who look for jobs. if it's seen on their application that they have a nigerian name or a foreign-sounding name, they won't get the job. what can make it more equal in just the recruiting? >> what you said is a reality. kilian himself has a foreign name. he's from a nigerian mother and cameroon father. he managed to do something because of the education of he is parents and the values. that's not only that.

because of what the city of bondi tried to do, the policy of bondi to do something good for the young people, for them to play football, to train and so on. now the policy has to be more strong with the people. i think that's what happened with mbappe on the french team, can put the spotlight in france. we hope it is not a shooting stars. but to put the spotlight on bonde, to show that we can do something. people that see mbappe say we can be somebody now. >> do you think mbappe, and the

success of athe team, do you believe that they can show these anti-immigration policies, like the national front, like le pen and others, that they need to change their policies? do you think it will have about impact on the politics today? >> definitely yes, i think so. because now under contrary of 1988, when we won the first world cup, now with the social networks and so on, people can talk about it. >> do you think times have changed? will this bring a change, even though it didn't in 1998? >> i'm not so sure i agree with you. because some things change in 1998 when we won. but unfortunately, 2001 came and al-qaida attack in america happened.

so only three years after that. everything that happens good. and now of 2001 and 2005, riots in france and everything were going to be bad, you know. now it's better. this victory can -- i am sure, it can bring something really good for all the people in france, you know? >> nabi, as a descendant of nigerian families, what did you feel personally when your people won? >> when i see french playing, i feel very proud, you know. because it is like my team won. i am very proud and i am behind them. and when the nigerian team plays, i am the same. i support their team and the french team in the same step. because i see both, like trevor said, we can see both, not only

french or algerian. i am french and algerian. and i hope that everybody can be proud of what he is and not hiding our origins, our french origins. we have to be proud of what we are. this is france now. french team show the world, we don't have to be ashamed on that. >> nabil, thank you so much for joining us from paris on this beautiful summer evening. >> that is it for our program tonight. thanks for watching "amanpour" on pbs. join us again tomorrow night. >> you're watching pbs.

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