. ♪ ♪ welcome to amanpour on pbs. tonight, two stories put a spotlight on the racial tension in donald trump's america. first, while many immigrant families are now reunited, there are still hundreds more unaccompanied children trapped in government custody. will they ever see their parent again? john sandweg, the former acting head of the u.s. immigration and customs enforcement joins me from washington and then in florida, a black man is dead and his killer, a white man is free. does stand your ground mean a license to kill? i talk to benjamin crump, attorney in the trayvon martin case. ♪ ♪ ♪

welcome to the program, everyone. i'm christiane amanpour in london. we have good news to report on the status of migrant families separated under the trump administration. more than 1,400 of them are now reunited after a court-imposed deadline on july 26th. to give you a sense of how that feels to the families themselves, take a look at this story of juana, a mother who wrote to us after being separated from her 16-year-old daughter in june. [ speaking spanish ]

>> thankfully, for juana and her family there was a happy ending. take a look. [ crying ] [ speaking spanish ] [ speaking spanish ]

>> her daughter is 15, but so many are so much younger, for the more than 500 children still in government custody, there are no happy stories to tell and no plan in place for tracking down their missing parents. in fact, as my first guest says somberly, they may never be reunited at all. as acting head of immigration and customs enforcement or i.c.e. under president barack obama, john sandweg had to navigate the bureaucratic challenges facing immigrant families and he joins me now from washington. mr. sandweg, welcome to the program. >> thank you for having me. >> fresh out what i said it's truly awful for a parent to hear or any humane viewer to hear that these kids may never be reunited with their family. is that what you think? >> well, what worries me the most are the parents who have

actually been deported so during the months after this policy was announced by the president that he would reunify the family, the deportation of the parents continued without their children and we have at least 460 parents who are now in central america whose children are now in the united states, look at how hard it was for the administration to reunite the children in their custody that knew where their children was and you can see the difficulty that it's going to be. no one has any idea where they are and no one is tracking them ad no real ability to expect their efficiency as a parent. >> i want to read you the testimony by a senior u.c.e. official just today and get your reaction to it. >> so our i.c.e. officers coercing parentses to be deported to leave their children behind as politico suggested?

>> no. there is longstanding policy for an individual goinghrough an immigration process. a great many of these individuals do not wish to have their child return home with them. the reason most of these individuals have come here in the first place is to get their children to the united states. >> does that ring true to you that a great many of these parents just don't care. they don't want their kids to come home with them? >> no, i think -- listen, that does not ring true to me. certainly in the past and when working on these border issues for a long time, you see large numbers of unaccompanied minor children where the parents have sent the children dictated by the smuggling organizations that have coached the parents on the best strategy. families don't travel together if they want to abandon their children at the border. we have to recognize that these parents are in a difficult position. they're locked up in immigration detention. they don't know when they'll see their children again and they're powerless to do anything. i do think that some of these parents felt like the only possible way to get their children back was to get

themselves out of custody and the only way they can effectively do that or did that at all was to agree to be deported, but i do think it's misleading to suggest these parents were just escorting their children up to the u.s. border. i'm not sure matt who was speaking there, i'm not sure that's exactly what he was suggesting. >> it sounds very much like he was suggesting that and we've heard other reports of these parents who are barely literate and can't speak english and have no idea how to navigate the justice system or the immigration system and they are frantic in whether it's guatemala, honduras or wherever they've gone back to. i just to play another thing that matthew said just to ask you whether this is acceptable from an official as well in public. >> i think the best way to describe them is to be more like a summer camp. these individuals have access to 24/7 food and water.

they have educational opportunities. they have recreational opportunities both structured as well as unstructured. >> i mean, he's talking about the detention facilities obviously, especially those for the children. i mean, a summer camp? >> yeah. obviously, a poor choice of words there. look, i've been in many detention facilities and they're far from a summer camp. i.c.e. does go out of its way to comply with certain stringent requirement, but at the end of the day detention is detention and the bottom line is that's no place for family especially handling this humanitarian crieses at the border and that's utilizing detentions things like ankle bracelets and in every pilot program we had a 96% to 99% success rate. >> how did it get so bad? you were a senior official under the obama administration for

i.c.e. and he was famously called the deporter in chief. there were a huge number of people who were deported under president obama, but it seems like they went and you went after people who were known to be criminals or felons and now it's just a much bigger everyone, big net. >> that's exactly right, christiane. you have to understand that the maximum ability of i.c.e. is important. in 2012 the largest year of deportation is 2% of the undocumented population so there are 11.5 undocumented immigrants in the united states, but i've only deported about 200,000 of those in a given year and the philosophy of the obama administration was hey, listen, we can only deport 200,000. let's get the bad guys first and let's focus on the jails and the convicted criminals and the gang members and the people crossing the border intending to commit crimes and put the emphasis there and suggest that was soft on immigration and they were soft on border security and

they've adopted a one size fits all approach and there is a massive different and fact between an individual with a violent felon or a serious gang member and an individual that came here 20 years ago with their child to found a better life and has never committed a crime and now his u.s. citizen children, and you can't treat them equally and when you divert resources to focus on the gardener who has been here 15 years and now children, that means that some criminal or gang member is getting free. i worry that the president is selling the american people a bill of goods suggesting you can have your cake and eat it, too, and that's just not a fact. >> and talking about public safety because there is the heart of it. the president cites this as a national security issue and yet we talked to a republican mayor of el paso when all of this started in june and this is what he told us about the state of security and safety in his area. >> el paso is the safest city in

the united states by any fbi or other measurement that you have and we have been in the top three for many years. we are the safest city in the united states. we do not have the issues that are being talked about that you are referencing. we haven't had them. we don't have them. so i -- i'm in a quandary as to how they articulate or convey or portray from mexico what's going on. that's not our issue here. >> so again, mr. sandweg, this is a massive policy with huge security, huge resources and huge humanitarian consequences based on a premise that at least that mayor says frankly doesn't exist. >> christiane, the border has never been more secure along the u.s.-mexico border. today we have over 20,000 border patrol agents who made less than 400,000 arrests last year and 15

years ago you only had 5,000 border patrol agents making 1.2 million arrests and far fewer people are getting across that border and primarily the majority of which are now central american families and the central american families are not trying to, v evade capt and they're surrendering their asylum claim and there is a security risk around the border and the border patrol has never been better, quipped. you cannot conflate with the security crisis and they are different problems and when you have a security solution to a humanitarian crisis you weaken the border security. >> that's very interesting because you're saying that the country is being made less safe than more safe with this kind of policy. to that end, yes, am i right? >> you're absolutely right. border patrol agents are not trained and not supposed to be standing guard over little children who have been separated from their parents.

border patrol agents should be between the ports of entry getting bad guys and trying to smuggle drugs into the united states and individuals trying to commit crimes. we are draining and diverting the resources and we're giving the agency a black eye which hinders their ability to cooperate with law enforcement to be effective on the public safety mission. >> those are real, real, real-life consequences that you're articulating to the detriment of the united states, but i want to ask you because clearly, as a senior i.c.e. official you're aware of the controversy over i.c.e. itself calling for it to be disbanded and this is what senator kristen gillibrand told cnn just last month. >> i believe that it has become a deportation force, and i think you should separate the criminal justice from the immigration issues, and i think you should reimagine i.c.e. under a new agency with a very different

mission. we believe that we should protect those that need our help and that is not what i.c.e. is doing today and that's why i believe you should get rid of it. start over. reimagine it and build something that actually works. >> i mean, that's harsh criticism of your former organization. do you see where she's coming from, though? >> she says two different things and one was the idea of separating the criminal investigative mission of i.c.e. from the immigration enforcement. i do think there is merit to that simply because the politics around the immigration enforcement especially how this administration is using i.c.e. make it very hard for the criminal investigators to do their job, but the ultimate frustration with the current immigration enforcement in the u.s. lies with the administration itself and let's not forget the zero tolerance policy di policy designed by attorney general sessions. with the extent that i.c.e. was a different agency or re-branded i.c.e., i think the frustration will remain. that said, we do need to reform

immigration enforcement in this country. we rely far too expensively on detention. it simply is not an effective tool and an efficient tool and not even friendly to the taxpayer. >> certainly not a humane tool when talking about minors. i just want to play you this little excerpt of a woman talking about her child. listen to this. [ speaking spanish ] [ speaking spanish ]

>> i mean, again, you see so much pain and hear so much pain and we're hearing from family wos have got their kids back and one mother of a 5-year-old said that her kid doesn't play anymore. her kid blames her and the families for abandoning them and their fa of rid game at least this one game is packing down and shackling as they've seen the officials do to the other migrant kids. >> heartbreaking to watch, christiane. that video really hits home in the sense that it humanizes it. you can see what the individual families will go through and what's frustrating about this is this was not planned. they separated these families without any plan about reuniting them and all of the delays we're seeing is the absolute lack of planning. regardless of the policy itself which i don't think is an effective deterrent. i think far too often we're in the u.s. thinking how do we deter people from fleeing the murder capital of the world paying smugglers to go through a

horrific journey. they're so much worse than the united states. and the idea that they can determine is non-existent, but when you look at that scenario, if you will dot the policy like this you have a responsibility and an obligation to have a plan in place to reunite the family and it's clear that this administration did not take that responsibility seriously and it's heartbreaking to watch that video. >> it really is, and we thank you for your expert advice on all of this and we'll keep watch it. john sandweg. thank you very much for joining us. turning now to a story fraught with troubling racial overtones, florida's notorious stand your ground law is back in the news after a fateful shooting in a parking lot. the latest incident took place on july 19th in clearwater, florida, when a black man, marquez, pulled up outside a convenience store as he and his son headed into the store leaving his girlfriend and their two younger children behind, a

white man approached their car to complain that they were parked in a space reserved for the disabled. here is surveillance camera video of what happened next. first, mclaughlin confronts drechka pushing him to the ground away from the car. then drechka reaches for a gun and shoots mclaughlin once in the chest. marquise mclaughlin was pronounced dead at the hospital, drechka who has a permit to carry a concealed weapon claimed he believed the use of force was necessary to prevent grievous bodily harm and the pinellas county sheriff's office agreed. the killing of marquise mc mclaughlin, echoes the 2012 death of trayvon martin, a case that polarized america and is now the sub jekject of a new

documentary series produced by jay-z and attorney benjamin crump appears in the documentary and he's now representing brittany jason who is marquise mclaughlin's longtime partner and mother of his three children. benjamin crump joining me from new orleans, welcome to the program. >> mr. crump, what does this say for this stand your ground law. how is this possible that this is still being invoked in this particular case? >> christiane, it is very tragic as we think six years after trayvon martin's most unfortunate and timely killing and on the eve of the premiere of this docuseries where his parents sabrina and tracy tell the story of trayvon martin and his enduring legacy that we're now dealing in the state of florida again with another controversial stand your ground

killing because stand your ground is a discriminatory, racist law in its application. it allows the person to start a confrontation with an unarmed person of color and then claims self-defense after they shoot them and killing them as i was standing my ground and get to go home and sleep in my bed tonight there is no justice in this law for stand your ground for people of color. >> so what is your case against the shooter who said he felt grievous bodily harm and let me just play what the sheriff has said about this and then i'll ask you. >> yes, ma'am. >> sorry. apparently, it's a quote. he, the shooter, felt that after being slammed to the ground that he was going to be further attacked by mclaughlin. i don't make the law, but i will enforce the law and under these circumstances this fits within the framework that the florida

legislature has crossed it. so you sort of talked about the framework, but what are you claiming about drechka's state of mind and his habits? >> yes, ma'am. first, you have to look at the video for yourself. don't take the sheriff's merit -- look at the video for yourself. not only has marquise mclaughlin's family and as his attorneys and as well as the community rejected the narrative that the sheriff has said that this is stand your ground. even the nra and the republican legislators who drafted and passed stand your ground said this is a stand your ground because when you look at the video you have to understand that this wanna be cop, drejka, came up to the car with brandy jacobs who had her two infant,

age 3 years old and she didn't know who the whitman was and he knocked on the window and started cursing at her and pointing his finger at her and assaulting her. marquise is in the store with his 5-year-old son. somebody tells him your girlfriend is being assaulted. he comes out and goes to defend his family and defend his property. if anybody should have had stand your ground it should have been marquise mclaughlin and he didn't slam him on the ground. he just pushed him and he fell back and then this wanna be cop takes a gun out and he points it at marquise. four seconds pass. marquise mclaughlin takes four steps away. there is a white gentleman who comes up in the video. he also retreats. everybody is retreating. there is no need for him to use this deadly force. it is unjustified and certainly he did not have an objective

fear at the time he pulled the trigger killing marquise mclaughlin in front of his 5-year-old son and his 12-month-old daughter and his baby boy. >> mr. crump, you have written very powerfully and written it's a op-eds and wrote it's a die j dangerous time to be black in america and it's a license to kill young black people or black men. we operate now in a state of highly divisive tension in the united states of america. why is this stand your ground law so powerful and particularly in florida and is it the same case across the country? it is, christiane. remember, as we head into the midterm elections, this is going to be a critical issue especially to communities of color because these are our children who people are picking fights with, starting

confrontations and then they kill our children and they get to go home and sleep in their bed at night and just like with trayvon, benjamin martin just like in 2012 and zimmerman shot trayvon martin who was walking home and minding his business and all he had was a can of skittels and all he had was a can of iced tea and a bag of skittels and he was on the telephone and they profiled, pursued and shot this unarmed teenager in his heart. he got go home and sleep in his bed at night. >> mr. crump, let me play the clip you were referring to. rest in power, the series produced by jay-z has a clip and it is the trayvon martin ♪ ♪ >> there's a suspicious character at the gate of my neighborhood. >> describe the individuals. >> two african-american, ma'am. >> what's going on.

>> the gentleman was -- and i don't know what his deal is. >> white, black or hispanic? >> black. >> we've had break-s in in my neighborhood and there is a real suspicious guy. >> is he white, black or hispanic? >> he looks black. >> mr. crump, that was as clear as daylight and even president obama said to the parents of trayvon martin if i had a son he would look like trayvon and i want to ask you today about that case, do you believe that that case has energized communities? has energized the black community and the issue of social justice. has it made an impact or is the case of marquise just shown that it's same old same old? >> well, the answer is both. it energized community of color

across america and across the world. trayvon martin any time you said his name anywhere people knows that it stands for social justice and that black lives matter. that's a catalyst for black lives matter for michael brown and ferguson and so many other tragic killers of young men of color. with the killing of marquise mclaughlin last week it shows you that even though we have awakened to acknowledge to the world that black lives matter, we still have a very racist criminal justice system that targets black men for crime, but when we're the victims of crimes they don't hold anybody accountable for killing us and stand your ground is one of those laws that is very, very problematic because it encourages people to take the law into their own hands. shoot first and ask questions

later. black people don't get the benefit of stand your ground in america when we said we're standing our ground we're taken to jail no matter what, but when white people kill us then they're not taken to jail, they're given the benefit of the doubt. this is not the right message to say to society that violence is the solution. violence is never the solution. >> you have now some very high profile people who are in your corner. lebron james talked to cnn last night and said that it was that case that mobilized him to get behind the social justice movement in this case. benjamin crump, thank you so much, indeed, for joining us tonight. that's it for our program tonight. thanks for watching amanpour on pbs and join us again tomorrow night. ♪ ♪

>> national presentation of "bbc world news" is made possible by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you. thank you. mike:warm welcome to bbc news broadcasting to our viewers around the globe. our top stories, as facebook fights to fix its reputation, the company reveals foreign attempts to influence u.s. midterms. donald trump's former campaign manager on trial. the president insists the case has nothing to do with him. a passenger plane crashes in northern mexico but all