♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ good evening, everyone. welcome to the program. at a time of incredible tension between the presidency and the press, a new movie, the post, is incredibly well timed. it features two giants of hollywood, tom hanks and meryl streep, playing two giants of journalism, ben bradley, the legendary editor of "the washington post" and katherine graham, publisher and owner. it was back in 1971, at a similarly tense time between the nixon administration and the

press. when the pentagon papers were leaked by daniel elsberg. they showed the administration had continued to send soldiers into the slaughterhouse in ve t slaughterhouse in veelt name knowing for years the war was unwinnable. bradley and graham became one of the greatest partnerships in journalism in the united states. but their relationship wasn't always easy. >> so, can i ask you a hypothetical question. >> oh, dear, i don't like hypothetical questions. >> don't think you will like the real one either. >> do you have the papers? >> not yet. >> meryl streep, tom hanks, welcome to the program. >> nice to be here. >> incredible film. really what incredible timing. i understand it was rushed into production. its that trie is that right? >> yes, it was. i believe that steven got the script in march. >> yeah. >> we started shooting in may.

he finished at the end of july. and two weeks later here, had it cut. nobody makes a film that fast. >> actually this film is even more relevant because of who was elected don't you think? >> uh-huh. i would say that's true. >> explain. >> well the assault on the press. i mean there are parallels with nixon trying to preemptive tee shut down a story before it was written. shuttle down "the new york times," after three days of publishing the pentagon papers. and it came to "the washington post." numb fwer ter two paper in wash. >> steven spielberg called it a patriotic film. would you agree? >> oh, absolutely. i mean i think thaeng that gets done to the bottom of an assault on the first amendment and proves that -- that a free press is one of the pillars of our democracy, a pretty patriotic message to put out. this, this, original script i read was really about the week

katherine graham we came katherine graham. and, the fold in of all of the -- you know, a president that was frying to thwart the truth. an attack, delegitimizing the press, supreme court making its decisions as well as the the reality aof what a woman faced n the board room when things are supposed to be ameritocracy. put tight geogether. and, it ends up being a caldron for 201 n8 now. go back, study history see. how it relates to now? you realize this ongo, fight to form a more perfect union is as american as apple pie. >> i am struck, the week that katherine graham became katherine graham. sunny was brave. sunny went against her own tribe. so friendly with robert mcnamara

and cabinet secretaries. when you fry to internalize it. you do a great job of looking and sound like her. what were you aiming for? >> i was aiming, really, to, to portray a woman of, of my mother's generation. who -- confronted a moment in the 70s. when everything changed for women. it was sort of of a breakout moment. at the time this film takes place. 1971. just a week and a half in, in that time. ken kent state was happening. social upupheavals. on the fulcrom of a change there were no female cs of any industry. companies at that time. very, very hair. she was in the position she inherited it. her father owned the paper.

passed tight her husband. she was basically 45 years old. her husband died. the mantel of "the post" and 3,000 employees and everything. fell to her. the clip we will play. katherine graham at breakfast with you. tom hangs. benjamin bradley. the editor of "the washington post". are you sure we are striking the right tone here, ben. oh, we are going to do this a again. stiletto party coverage. you are losing female leadership, you know. i think you might want to focus more on what women. >> katherine, keep your finger out of my eye.

you can see he was pushing her to this decision. >> the only way that ben was katherine's equal was in his desire to do great journal its m. he was not the man who made the call. he was the man who pursued it, got it. had to present it in the manner of so, what are you going to do? he knew what the stakes were. i think ben was confounded by having the greatest job in the world. he loved what he did. he was a pie ralt and a beast and a, you know, he was just a cad, in so many ways. he loved his job. he filled a room in a big way. everybody knew when ben bradley was walking in. because of his joy and expertise he exuded hoochlt was second place behind the washington star in washington, d.c. had the number two, three paper depending on what the week was.

for "the new york times." to get the biggest story in the world. he, he, he was -- he, salivate the. in order to play, in that same game. he wanted to catch up. when the moment came. he had the papers that told the truth. and to, publish them, would be to run afoul of the justice department of the united states of america. well, unfortunately that was below his pay grade. and, fortunately, it was -- in hers. >> yes. >> it was my decision, yeah. >> it was your decision. >> yeah, you, katherine gram. meryl, all of the president's men. barely mention. barely registered, katherine graham. like somebody, air brushed out. the history.

is it about giving her her due. >> people looked up, recognized. they're more aware of who is not at the table. who is left out of history. often the more colorful personalities like ben bradley. commandeer the attention. the only reason that, that, woodward and bernstein were able to carry through with the watergate investigation. they had the confidence they would be supported. the success of the pentagon papers. where they in a moment of crisis they beat down the bad guys. they won. >> you were, at the golden globes. you were all there.

wearing black. oprah winfrey on sunday night, decided to give a stem winding speech that everybody including yourself, said that was her, her launching her presidential bid. do you think she is? that's the, the gossip and conversation around the water cooler. >> she certainly is raising the bar for who, whomever decides to run. because they had better burn the barn in the same way. we realize how thirsy we are f a return passionate adherence to values, principles, as a country, people. men and women. you can really pull a big army. behind you. with that kind of rhetoric. real feeling and smarts. i think she is amazing. >> some people said you should be running for president. >> well i have told her that often. >> i will take, as vp. i hope, president winfrey gives me occasional rides on air force one, the helicopter she gets to

go around. great thing said about our country. any body can grow up and become president of the united states. and our current has proven literally that anybody can become president of the united states. the possibility of someone. incredibly smart. incredibly passionate. who is, has always putting forward a message of inclusion, and cooperation, and, with the authenticity of someone says i want to wake up every day and make the world and country and your city and your neighborhood better than it is. i think that person is a type of president the united states, ought to have. >> you think it is a legitimate bid you. would support that? would you support it? let's face it. she also is inexperienced in the matters of running a country.

>> she's run a major corporation, that didn't go bankrupt, three, or four, or however many times. intellectually she qualified. energy, stam narks passion. she is more than qualified. as for everybody growing up and thinking they can become president, for half of the population that's been true for our entire history i you notice t it hasn't been troupe. let me womansplain this to you. >> thank you for enlightening me. i became enlightened by what you had to say. i cannot argue with the empirical frootruth. there is a number of ways for history to be made here. i think the first woman chief executive of the united states would need to have, oprah winfrey's qualities. whether or not she, she sees, look, people joke around with me

all the time. hey why don't you, you make a good speech. you look good on tv. why don't you do it. that's not the same thing. as some one that may need to step in. say, boy there is heavy lifting that has to go on here. and if, i might have to do it. >> huh. huh. >> it is a fascinating moment. there is a sense that well, any body can dupe it. let me ask you about the triumph of truth. in the era of fake news, alternative facts. at the golden globes what you started there a year ago. supported the free press. the hollywood press association, announced a $1 million grant and donation probably because of you to the cpj. how important is that. the press is under siege

globally. we have seen so many journalists, jail the. in exponentially greater numbers now. part of that feels like, some sort of permission issued, tacitally by the united states that says, you know, might makes right. if you want to shut it down. shut it down. and, we have had -- journalists killed. the woman who brought out the panama papers. i've mean -- >> in malta. >> the woman cutting her neck in russia. you know. the bad guys will want to shut us down. you knew ben bradley. you played a journalist in her play on broadway. what does it mean to you, the,

the sanctity, ability of a press to operate unhindered. >> what was said. you are entitled to your opinions you. are not entitled to your facts. there are emperical truths out there. it is very cold outside. say, it is 42 degrees outside right now. 42 degrees is a number that, you can not argue with. two times 12 is 24. that's physics along with a truth you have to accept. what tyrants do, i study history. read it for pleasure. what tyrants have -- have done, back to the point where they were -- imprinting clay tablets with hieroglyphics to manipulate the truth. to denigrate the, the, in this case, move it up to fast forward. tyrants number one. want to denigrate the people that go out. the fourth estate. the journalists who go out and try to deter min whmine what th

is in the united states of america, by large, have the functionality to make sure you don't print it until it is confirmed. tyrants, first of all want to delegitimize any effort to do that. say, no, no, no. we have -- truth. so we have to believe us. the next thing they do is, just try to put those, those, those truth tellers. out of business. they do everything they can. in some cultures they take sledge hammers to printing presses and slice the necks of women journalists who go out and get the truth. the end result, is you have a state run. here's what our king did today. isn't he a wonderful man. next thing you know. you are living in romania. and that's the way it works. to be the true first amendment. they could have maybe given up after they had written. once they wrote that. they can't tell you who not to associate with. not allowed to scream fire in a crowded theater unless there is a fire.

and, finally, a freedom of oppressive journalists to go forward and put the record straight. this is what has made america, america. and to have -- any sort of -- guerrilla war being plaguesed against feel who, whose job is to go off and find a truth is a threat to us all. >> one of the great closing scenes of the film, is when the journalist meg greenfield is taking a call from the supreme court, and, tells the newsroom, that, actually, we have won. the press has won. >> it is fantastic. there is a cheer that goes up. in screenings, and elsewhere. so i want to ask you -- why you decided not to go to a white house screening for the -- for the -- for the show. or were you -- >> there was no invitation to do the show. >> wasn't invited. >> what an omission. >> the question is, a hypothetical one that was put to me. if you were invited to the white house, would you go? and i said i probably would not.

because it's, i don't want to put forward such a false front. as to disagree as passionately as i do. with -- with the -- what's the word? >> current in come benlt. >> well, yes. >> i think there are -- bad, we now have neo-nazis in torch light parades. jokes about it. there is a disconnect with the, the system of governments that i could not in good faith go and take part in. >> do you feel the same way? >> no. >> i would go. >> i would go. i think you have off to speak truth to power. i would go right up into his face. say what i thought. there is no way we are going to emerge from anything if we don't talk to each other.

and -- and newton minnow, first director of the fcc, basically, wrote, about, tom hanks said he would not participate in the screening of the film in the white house. tom with respect to you, favorite actor. trump more than any one else who needs to learn the lessons of the film. >> well i hope he sees it. >> we heard he asked for it. yes.y. >> for a copy for the white house. and camp david, in case. >> i, i -- >> can't get through the whole thing. >> hope he sees it. and, and, takes the first amendment and the lessons from let's say the nixon administration. to heart. >> it is a thrilling movie. so you will, like it. >> likes the movie. >> yes it is. >> he will dig it. >> can tell you that right now. also we have not been in vielted to anything. so -- this is all, this is all a hypothetical, what if? >> we still got you on the record about the hypothetical. of course for his, history buffs it is incredible that nixon's voice is nixon's voice.

>> it is. >> the recordings of his voice. it is just, really transports you back. he is the best one in the movie. >> wear's good. >> yeah, yeah. nixon. scored big. >> so, let's go to another major battle. that we are all face right now. me too battle. started with grechb carlstchen fox news. ousting the pinnacle of power there. coming to hollywood with harvey weinstein. said sunday night. about everybody was wearing black in protest of what is going on. are we teetering on an abyss. is there a direction. is there a second wave. other than a few trophy scalps. >> will i think someone said, we are building the airplane, we are taking off. you know. at the same time. we are taking off.

the me too movement started ten years ago in response to abuse of young women of color in the south. she worked. and continues to work on the issues. i mean, in oprah's speech, she mentions, reecie taylor. who was raped. refused to shut up about it. and she was warned. and rosa park's part in that. i did not know that story. we all screamed it at the table. this is a very old battle. a battle of dominance. same with, with freedom of the prechlts who is going to get, to be top dog. weird thing is, we -- we elected the -- the silverback. because people want that

clarity. some times an outmoded way of governing. >> where do men come into the fight. i know you talked abumt this before. where do men come in to support women. as the feminist writer, has the written in "the new york times." sexism, miss oj kna male proble. you have to fix it. you have to fix it. she said what if, what if. >> ready to meet this challenge. >> what about matt damon saying i will not take the role unless my co-star is paid the same as i am. >> this is what has to happen. >> would you say that? >> absolutely. not only, look, i have an office. we actively are always seeking out. because earlier in the, here, the airplane is made of canvas and wire. what you if you honestly want to make the lasting difference to say it is not just about a pen and, a preaching to the choir. you then have to stay, let's find the women that will take these jobs. let's put women in, the parity

that is necessary. the great thing this woman said if 50% of the board of say weinstein pictures had been women. somebody would have said what is going on here. it its parity that is going to make it. >> it's congress. a slush fund. shocking. shocking there is a slush fund that will pay off sexual harassment and nondisclosure agreemen agreements. >> you can deduct your sexual harassment settlement off your taxes. but you can't -- you know, there is a cap on your real estate. i mean, this isn't, this is a problem of an if balance of power. and a dominant -- culture, and the, the dominant voice. has been -- has distorted justice. >> and what's the next sort of, set of dominoes to fall. i mean people talk about, i don't know the assistants, agents. all people who help people like harvey weinstein lure, people to their bedrooms.

the next one is -- in the military. it's in the hospital industry. it's in -- at goldman sachs, it is not just hollywood. hollywood is where, why we pay attention. because they're bold faced names. and, that, that stands out. but, it's everywhere. i think that the fix -- is in. people are not -- women's -- women are not going to turn around and go back to the told way. >> i have to ask you. all over the place. and you rebutted it. very movingly. what is it, with rose mcgowan accused of you, of tacitly knowing and not saying. and all of these years that you worked, in some respect for harvey weinstein. >> i'm sure. i'm sure in many ways she wished, i knew. what happened to rose -- is unbearable.

stick is a knife in everyone's heart. this man was allowed to continue the way he worked on people. over the bodies of women. he made a business over the bodies of women. and -- going forward, we have to support the, the survivors. figure out solutions. why, why, legislatively, it will never happen again. really we should have the era, the era will protect, all women, will make it, illegal. i've mean there is so many imbalances. but -- for rose i think i have, nothing but -- embassy. and, and -- hope that she finds a way -- to heal. i ral do. i think she and so many women that stepped forward.

we owe them a debt of gratitude. because they have changed the 21st century. they really have. and on the record you said that you were you were too big for him to try anything on that on you. the assumption is i needed him for my career. but i mean, the iron lady was, i was paid $1 million to make the iron lady. by bbc films and passe. harvey picked up the film. oh, and i also gave my, my entire salary away to the, effort to build a national women any history museum. i didn't need harvey. harvey needed me. and he, i guess, hired spies so people would not note information so it would be suppressed. what happened to rose will never

hatch pen again. there is a net work of women now that is pretty formidable. we all talk to each other. our business has benefited from the fact that we didn't. d this is making -- people in the corporate suites shake in their boots. the agents shake in their boots. it's going to change the face of our industry. because for so many years, we hatch been, undervalued. underpaid, and ex-ployeded. so, that's over. >> do you think i am going to follow that? >> no. i've don't thi i don't think you should. that was great. tom hanks, meryl streep. >> thank you. >> an extraordinary film. that's it for ammanoour on pbs. see you again tomorrow.

♪ >> national presentation of "bbc world news" is made possible by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you.thank you. amy: very warm welcome to bbc news broadcasting to our viewers in north america and around the world. my name is mike embley. with the u.s. out of the nuclear deal with iran, president trump is reimposing sanctions. at the trial of donald trump toss former campaign manager, rick gates claimed he helped paul