♪ ♪ welcome to amanpour on pbs. we are looking back at some of our favorite interviews this year. tonight the former tv anchor who started the whole me too ball rolling by blowing the whistle at fox news. my conversation with gretchen carlson on where the movement she started is headed now. plus, one of hollywood's biggest stars, cate blanchete warns about a race against time to protect the myanmar desperate refugees. ♪ ♪ welcome to the program.

the me too movement caught fire last year. but before me too, there was gretchen carlson. the former fox news anchor made headlines a full year earlier when she sued her boss, roger ailes for sexual harassment, the case was settled for $20 million. gretchen carlson is with me now. gretchen, welcome to the program. >> thank you for having me. you are most welcome because a massive conversation and movement that really is some say at a delicate stage right now. do you think that there is sort of a tipping point moment right now, sort of, sort of come to jesus moment about how this is going to go forward? >> i'm calling it a cultural revolution. i don't think we put the genie back in the bottle at this point. so many women and men have felt encouraged inspired to find the bravery and to come forward. that i really feel like we are going to continue down this path. my great hope is that it will trickle down to the women who work in all of these industries,

that are not hollywood, television or capitol hill. where they're not famous necessarily. but they're still enduring the same type of a harassment and abuse. >> obviously have been high profile, men have been forced to leave their jobs. it isn't just about the famous stars is it or ceos? this is a whole culture of enablement throughout many organizations. >> so, i was stunned to find out after i jumped off my cliff in july of 2016, that suddenly, so many women started to reach out to me. and i realized very soon after that it is a pervasive epidemic, that crosses all socioeconomic lines and all careers. so i'm talking about, teachers, members of our military, bankers, accountants, lawyers, sports executives, it is everywhere. and, they all said a similar thing to me. which was -- we never had a voice. we never had a voice but through

you we feel like we do now. so, that was the impetus for me to really put their stories into a book was to give their voice honor. they had never been heard. and there are so many reasons why we have been keeping this secret. which we will probably get into. >> yes, i presume one of the reasons is sheer terror, just fear of where the chips may fall. >> right. because if you do come forward, you are still labeled a troublemaker. you know there is something wrong that you just couldn't get along with the boys. right. and so, and you fear for your job. and if you are a single mom working two jobs. you have kids to feed. you are not going to come forward if you know you are going to be maligned. demoted and fired. so here's the stark reality of what happened to those thousands and maybe more, than that, of women across this country and around the world. they came forward. in most cases they were fired. they have never worked in their chosen profession again. that is criminal.

>> really so troubling. you mention women with families. you yourself, are married with two youngish children. what went through your mind when this was happening to you. and when you were sort of plotting your revenge and plotting how to take down this take down the criminal enterprise. >> i didn't share with my children at the time. they were too young. now they're 12 and 14. they understand it much more. but of course my husband, you know was aware. my parents. and, that was about it. for me, the, the final thing was when my career after, working so hard for more than 25 years in tv when it was going to be taken away from me, it was not my choice. that i decided if i don't do this, who will? and so i did it for my children, and your children, and everyone else's. and, look where we are today. i mean it is so heartening to me, to see where we are. even though the stories are horrific and the allegations and revelations are horrible. we're in this awakening. it is an historic moment.

>> were you troubled that -- that even after you came forward, and, you know, fox news, it has such a massive hold on such a huge segment of the country. such a powerful organization. i mean, shaping -- presidencies and the agenda in many, many instances, were you troubled that -- it didn't have the -- the sort of avalanche effect that what the harvey weinstein revelations had. why do you think that happened? >> because -- we were still operating -- under the old rules. >> which were? >> which were the fact that women were still not to be believed. and that -- it was just the fact that my show didn't have -- you know, high enough ratings. and, you know, the same old same old. it was a he said she said environment. but look what's changed now. the amazing thing, now, is that, if men are put in the positions and accused. they're being let go from their jobs. and they're issuing apologies right away. that was unheard of just 1 month

ago when my story broke. to me that is humongous progress. here's the reason why women and men feel like they can come forward. because they saw consequences. even in my case. they saw something happen and they thought to themselves, wow. maybe i should come forward. maybe i should say what really happened to me. because, finally, even in 2017, 18, they're going to do something positive for me. >> can you tell me what happened, obviously, you have certain restrictions, because you were paid a $20 million settlement which came with a nondisclosure agreement. i mean that's pernicious in and of itself. do you chafe under the silencing of your voice. >> no, look at what i am steg doing. i am enacting new legislation on capitol hill. i set up a fund to give grants to empower young girls and boys. i am working on a docuseries

that will soon be out. started gretchen carlson leadership coalition for underserved women. the list goes on and on for the jobs i have been able to do on solve these issues. two ways settlements where women can never tell you what happened. and arbitration clauses in employment contracts that also keep this issue silent. and that's what i have been work sowing hard on capitol hill to change. proud to say last month, i was able to introduce a bill, bipartisan, in the house and the senate, to get rid of arbitration clauses and employment contracts with regard to sexual harassment. the reason it is so imperative is because it is a secret chamber. so these women complain. they come forward. in many cases they're fired. they get sent to secrecy of arbitration. we never heard from them again. what about the men denying these things happened. and what about the sfpectrum of abuses and wrongdoing. big question, bit of a backlash that seems to suggest that a lot

of issues are conflated as a big no-no, a big crime. is there a moment we have to define what is unacceptable behavior, fireable offenses and what doesn't? >> right. it is an excellent point. we have seen horrific allegations of actual sexual assault and sexual crimes, right. and then on the other hand, inappropriate one comment or, inappropriate touching, one or two times. so, yes there has to be this balance of -- or horrible, horrible, and maybe a one-off situation. but i will fell you this, of all those thousands of women i heard from, there was no gray area in almost all of their stories. they were so awful. so i don't want to diminish -- the severity and pervasiveness of the issue. when you struggle how to keep that in mind. how do we do that.

those in journalism. people in hollywood. people in, all other different, professions. how do we sort of. obvious what a code of conduct is or know when it is being violated. there are rules. there are rules in all of our organizations. and laws. sexual harassment is quid pro quo, sleep with me you will get the job or you won't. pretty obvious, right. >> is that what happened to you? >> i can't say exactly what my particular case was. but for many people, that's what they face. or find out about that. but then there is a little more gray, subjective. for example, now people are saying, well, men can't even compliment you on what you are wearing. listen, that is not -- thaez ose not the cases people are coming forward about. the kind of stories i heard were so outrageous. a woman just wanted a promotion. and the boss asked her to get up on the desk and spread her legs. these are the kinds of stories that i was hearing. it wasn't like there was a gray or subjective area there.

>> i was speaking to historian mary beard, british academic wriflt written books, issues, back on into the millenia about patriarchy, engrained in our history. isn't one of the ways that this is going to be solved, actually equal pay for equal play, more women in the executive suites, just, more women at the table, in the room where it happens so to speak. >> of course, 120%. i interviewed international cosmetic company for my book. they had a progressive way of, you know hour, you could report sexual harassment which is why i want to them. here's what i ended up finding out. , yeah, you have 70% women.g. so as long as the majority of fortune 500 companies, 94% of them are still being run by men. first of all, we need those men to help us. right? we need them to hire us and

higher positions. we need them to pay us, equally, fairly. we need to give us a seat in the board room. we need all of that. and most importantly, we need them to come forward when nay seep it happening. >> stand by us. >> 100%. that to me, will be the final tipping point. >> do you see enough of that happening. do you see a movement towards that. men being involved in the solution. >> i do. the other surprise thing after my story broke was that i heard from so many men. in my unscientific study on the streets of new york city more men would stop me than women. shake my hand. say thank you for my daughters. >> that is great. >> it is. >> now what did your daughter and your son think when, eventually, obviously the news broke. they saw what their mother had done. what she had been subjected to. and that she won. >> uh-huh. well, it didn't have an immediate effect. i will share my daughter found bravery and courage to stand up for herself. she did it in a situation that was making her uncomfortable. she said mommy i did it because i saw you do it.

which -- meant it was all were it to me. my son, saw me on television, one night. asked me about a horrible statistic about once every 73 or 76 seconds when sexual abuse happens. mommy is it true. i said, yes. he said mommy i want to help fix that. >> that is really remarkable. it is. >> to ask you, their generation, pink singer. entertainer said, the behavior, the mind setd that a woman can be grabbed in any way, that mind set is dying. do you think for your daughters, your son's generation it will be a dead issue or are woe way far away from that? >> it is my hope. when i have been meeting with members of congress. i say do you want this for your kids. not one person raises their hand. so we, none of us want this for our children. so this is why it is bipartisan, and apolitical. we need to come together. to be able to solve this issue. >> well, well done, for take up the fight. gretchen carlson, you have been brave. thank you for continuing to speak out. >> thank you for having me.

>> thank you. >> vief lent persecution forced them to flee their homes and their country. since myanmar's military crackdown on muslims, almost 700,000 have fled across the border to squalid camps in neighboring bangladesh. the u.s. and u.n. accused myanmar of ethnic cleansing and the icon of democracy is herself villified by her most ardent supporters around the world for failing to stand up for the rights of these people. and now, the region's infamous monsoon season is bearing down. threating to wash away refugee shelters. into the emergency, crisis. steps oscar winning actress, cate blanchete, a good will ambassador for u.n. refugee agency and giving a firsthand eyewitness account of the horrors she witnessed there. welcome to program.

>> thank you. you've come back from this center of humanitarian crisis what was the most urgent need you are bringing back. i don't think anything could have prepared me for the precarious nature of the environment of the refugees. >> you are there with some of them in parts of the camp. >> as the the image suggests the thing that most struck me as i have never seen so many unaccompanied children. because over half the people in -- in the surrounding settlements, are children under the age of 18. >> what does that do to you, you are a mother of four children? >> yes. i met so many -- women who were, heads of households. so many children who didn't know where their parents were. it's, it its, deeply, deeply upsetting. i mean there, their lives are not only precarious because of of what they experienced in the oncoming monsoons but ripe for ex-ply tags. they don't have the family support in a patriarchal

society. >> you did manage to talk and see quite a few people. i've also think you saw, talk about monsoons. everybody is concerned. because, forget a refugee crisis. bangladesh is prone to the worst kinds of flooding and monsoons. >> yes, it is not only one of the weltest countries. on earth, but one of the poorest. and bangladesh government has kept the borders open. which is profoundly generous. and, and i saw, incredible generosity of the host communities. that are living cheek by jowl with, you know, upwards of a million people in the region. it is unsustainable without more support from the international community. >> you talk about them keeping the borders open. myanmar, the military, has in the last few days done exactly the opposite. it is apparently fortifying the borders. barbed wire. burns, brenches to try off to stop the rohingya going back many to their own homes. did you get a sense of them wanting to go back. feeling they could ever go back? >> well, i don't think i ever

experienced in my, time with unhcr, a level of terror about returning home. obviously, the rohingya have been generationally stateless. since the citizenship law changes in 1992, their situation -- has become worse and they hatch been able to, be sustainably educated or have access to, to, medical services. their movement has been curtailed. but, what has happened. with villages burning. and the mothers and the girls, that i spoke to, who have themselves experienced rape, was one girl in a community center, i melt. jazmine, who had, just, very matder of factually said, she rown into a fire.d brother elder brother being dismembered and shot in front of her. as a mother, i wouldn't want to return back to that. so of course, the solution does relight, it, it takes place in myanmar. and -- but the u.n. needs to be able to get unrestrict eaccess o

make sure the rohingya people can happen in a humane dignified way. >> they're not alug now. we read the myanmar government is making it really difficult for any humanitarian aid inside. any investigations by the u.n., inside their country. look, i just wanted -- wondered, it's so receive lentless, relentlessly sad. a child being thrown into a fire. we have heard that now, several times. there are many people talking about this. you know, you're corroborating stories we have heard from other refugees. and other people who have been there. and yet, you know, you went to visit a school. going to play a little bit of video. there is, still a little humanity and hope left in them. let's have a look.

>> you talked a little about the kids and terror day face on many occasions. sometimes they're happy. happy to see an outsider who brings a little distraction, and love. >> through uhncr, partner organizations, the children that you saw have been given access to, to -- the -- learning to read and write for the first time ever. because, a stateless rohingya refugees they have not had access to education at all. it was very distressing to hear them sing the protest song. they were singing in english. twinkle twinkle little star to a tune i had never heard before. but then they began to sing, i am not alone. deep in my heart. i know that i am not alone. i am not afraid. and you, you, you want to think, i want to make that true with the international, the support of the international community. >> what do you think they need most right now. in the very immediate term they need incredible support to shore themselves up against the oncoming monsoons. i mean they have shown incredible resilience.

they themselves are sandbagging, the steps, because of course, they're, the dwellings are in places where no dwelling should be. they're landslides waiting to happen. and the latrines are going to collapse. they need financial support. and the bangladesh government and host communities need to be supported by the international community to shore up against the monsoons. >> does really sound awful. how awful is what's become of ang sung su chee, i don't know as woman or human rights ambassador, this woman inspired the whole world. she was given human rights prizes. and now w. one by one they've been take any way from her. the holocaust museum in washington is the latest. nobel laureates have called on her just to, to, stand up and speak up for these people. >> it is bewildering, isn't it that someone who has, has been such a champion for, for establishing even a fragile democracy in, in myanmar, and who herself has suffered

privations does not acknowledge the atrocities that have absolutely taken place, they're very real. there is not a single ref jeef that i met who hadn't, experienced some -- refugee that i met who hadn't experienced profound trauma. for me that is a political solution that needs to take place. i am focussed on, you know the very real human need that these 670,000 refugees. >> she was in your country. australia. >> yes, recently. >> when you were in bangladesh. she was treated as visiting dignitary, as she should be. but she pulled out of a q & a in a speech and all that kind of stuff. again, i wonder as an australian what you think of your own country's record on refugees, on immigrants, you know, them being sort of -- shunted into, into detention centers and offshore and all the rest of it. a very difficult thing for you as a nonpolitical, actress,

goodwill ambassador to be in the middle of. it actually. a lot of politics that crosses. >> the respecting of basing human rights for the world's most vulnerable should not be a political decision. turning back boats, has not worked. the policy of off shore mandatory ongoing detention is inhumane and must be stopped. the australia i group in was one that was -- you know, colonial invasion, not with standing, it was incredibly supportive and welcoming of waves of refugees. which have had. those refugees have played an enormous, positive ben fit to us, economically and culturally and socially. so, i, i don't understand it at all. >> but you know australia has been incredibly generous in its financial support of, of -- you know, the rohingya crisis. it does have to deal with offshore processing. >> for whatever reason, right now, refugees are being demonized all over the world. whether it is australia, whether it its -- in, in, with the

rohingas, in the united states. whether here in england. there is an anti-sort of migrant feeling right now. and it comes up at the same time as there is this -- big me too movement, times up there. a lot of real movements that are happening right now. and you are one of the very prominent people who have signed up two times up. and in fact, fund raised. what is the fund-raising for? >> well, in answer to the first thing. i think there is a, a, a terrifying wave of nationalism and recidivism which i think is unhelpful. then leads to sort of, xenophobic level of misinformation about refugees and conflating the fact that these vulnerable people are related to terrorist activity. and every single person that i have seen, whether it be in lebanon or jordan, or recently in, in, the rohingya refugees in myanmar. they are fleeing from atrocities. they need our help. in relation to the fund-raising, you mean fund-raising. >> yep.

>> i think, i, i exist in a very high profile industry. very pointy ended industry. and i think that, that, there is many, many women in, in my position who feel that we have a platform, to not only examine, the dirty laundry that need to be washed in our own industry but be an exemplkpeexemplar for other industries need to do, you know, to examine the inequalities and the unexamine the abuse that have gone on for decades. >> are you proud it was hollywood that, actually -- opened the floodgates, to this -- to this injustice happening to women? >> i think -- as artists we deal in nuance, we deal in gray areas. weave deal in doubt. the job is, one's job is to be empathetic. there is a woman that, you know, in quite a male dominated industry that we, we sort of

tend to be compassion that. we welcome conversation. and we hatch been, perhaps hey little bit too patient. i think what, i am very proud of, is there is -- that in my industry. i think women have been siloed, competitors rather than collaborators. i feel there is a profound level of change happening in my industry. but, you know, look at the banking sector. look at farm workers. look at women in the automotive industry. it happens across industry. >> yes. yes. exactly. and if our industry can be used as an exemplar and positive changes that i think are really genuinely happening can be rolled out into other industries i think that's, you know that is something i'm proud of. >> i want to finish with a piece of video that you brought back. again, you know, an attempt to, to find the joy, in these, incredibly sad and dispoe social securitied places. and we are going to show you with some, with refugees actually turning any number of household objects into musical instruments. >> mohammad. professional singer in myanmar.

he has the, this is the thing. i experienced incredible, incredible resilience and invention and heart and generosity on behalf of the rohingya refugees helping each other. of course, waves of displacement. since the, you know the 80s and the 90s. so, he, he, sees his role as the a singer to, sing through the trauma. he is, he -- he sang for, for a group of us, song about the oncoming monsoon and terrifying fear that all of the houses are going to collapse. >> let's play it. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> necessity being the mother of invention. he is using what looks like a kitchen bowl as musical instrument? >> yes. he was the master of the

mandoline, one of, exactly sure what the instrument is called. we had to wait half an hour. he said i am waiting for one more instrument. then came out this, metal pot. that speaks of a level of ingenuity that refugees show. >> life. >> cate blanchete, thank you for shining the spot light on them. >> thank you. >> we hope you enjoyed looking back at the conversations on issues that are still important. that is it for this special edition of our program tonight. d join us again tomorrow manpour night. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ >> national presentation of "bbc world news" is made possible by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you.thank you.mike: a very warm welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to our viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is mike embley. our top stories -- the u.s. announces new sanctions on russia over the poisoning of former spy sergei skripal and his daughter in the u.k. will argentina vote to legalize abortion? the result of an historic vote in the