welcome to pbs. tonight from atlanta georgia, my conversation with a democratic who could become america's first black female governor. stacey abrams on what her historic candidacy means for the american south and democratic party. plus, my conversation -- with jackson about a stellar to broadway and why they need to hang up acting shoes je s just . .

good evening, everyone. welcome to the program. the week is open with american allies from the eu to canada and mexico and politicians inside the united states trying to figure out how to fight back against the trump affect. overseas, allies are figuring out how to retaliate trade tariff. while inside america, gearing up to fight back at the ballot box next november and some signs the base is fired up. hundreds more women running this electi election cycle and the one getting attention is stacey abrams. rallying women, minorities, and never before voters and she's now on the cusp of history. potentially becoming america's first ever black woman governor. >> we are riwriting the next chapter of georgia's future

where no one is unseen, no one is unheard, and no one is uninspired. >> of course she would also become georgia's first ever female governor. abram's history making moment is remarkable and personal satisfactory is extraordinary as well. just a snipsnippet, she has wri many romance novels. she joined me from atlanta. >> thank you for having me. >> do you mind me starting out saying you are the successful suspense romance novelist you are. >> i'm happy people know i write. i will add i'm the author of minority leader how to lead from outside and creating real change which was published in april. >> you are the minority leader in georgia. what would you say writing has done for you as you reach this incredible moment at the -- you've won the primary and you're facing the general in november. what of your books whether

they're novels or political memoir done for you. >> my romance novels really help me think about the different lives that people lead and how important it is to tell stories so you can bring poem eople to table and they understand why issues matter with them. what i was able to do as minority leader is talk about my journey to this space, but in a way i hope is more accessible and less about me and how other people can own their power and find their path to leadership. >> so here you are in atlanta. i mean, you're running for office in georgia. you didn't grow up there. a lot of your childhood was in gulf port and you describe your childhood to an extent as one of gentle poverty. at least that's what your mom said. when you didn't have running water and a lot of poverty. you nonetheless red and went to the library. tell me how your childhood shaped you. >> i'm the daughter of two extraordinary people who grew up

in mississippi. i grew up in gulf port. my mom was a librarian. my dad was a shipyard worker. they struggled to make ends meek. i'm the second of six children. it was entirely likely my parents could have said we did what we were supposed to do. it didn't work. let's give up hope. instead, my parents raised us to believe that education, faith, and that service were really going to be the recipe for us to move forward and they told us all our lives that where we began was never going to dictate where we ended up. economic privity was not going to be a reason that we couldn't be successful. and i want to give that to everyone else. i had two parents who made sure we read. made sure we had full experiences who guarantee that all six of their kids went to college. because of that, we grew up with a broader perspective, not only of what we were capable of, but of what our responsibility was to serve others so they believe

they can have the same chance. >> of course you went on to college. yale university. deputy city attorney at 30. you really sort of raced up that career ladder. what did -- what do you want? what is your main issue for people if you are elected governor in november. >> at the core of my mission is i think poverty is immoral. i think it's economically inefficient and i think that we need a leader who believes everyone should have the freedom and opportunity to thrive. that means focusing on education, on economic development, economic security, and focusing on making sure that leadership works for everyone and not just the privileged. >> so obviously you're doing this in a pretty republican state. you're doing this in the south of the united states where you know not to put too fine a word on it, it's hard to be a black woman. it's hard to be black in america today and get to where you want to get to and you're vying to

become the first ever black governor in the united states. is this your moment? do you feel there is an opening right now and if so, why? >> i think there's an opening because america and the south is changing. it's not just the demographic changes that i think have certainly come to georgia and made this possible, but it's also a change in ethoughs. we saw in november of 2016 that voting matters, that your voice matters. and it does indeed make a difference who gets elected. and so i think my opportunity is to harness that energy and also harness the urgency of this moment. every single day we wake up to news about a new atrocity and a new quiet bigotry and what i want folks to understand in my company campaign is this about them. it's about their voices and their opportunity to change the direction of the south. it's going to be hard, but it's absolutely possible. we saw in the primary people turned out who had not voted

before. if we do this right with people at the core of our campaign, we will win in november. >> give me the strategy then. obviously we read and we sort of observe sk observe a lot of these races and obviously a lot of democrats feel they should go off to this sort of voters who voted for trump. try to peel them back or peel this away. i think you are going after a different demographic, right? explain us the strategy and who is numbers are. >> sure. traditionally there's been a tendency to spend more money on republicans who disagree with us than though invest with those who share values and believes. my goal is to go after democratic leaning voters and any independent thinker who wants their voice to matter. that can sound sort of naive, but here's the reality. we need that people want children to be educated. they want good jobs that pay

well. they want government that works for everyone, including expansion of medicaid. something we just saw happen in virginia. the numbers in georgia say that i need 250,000 people who didn't vote in the last election to turn out and lift up their voices. we know that we have more than a million voters who shares these believes, but have not had a candidate who is willing to invest in their voices. my campaign from the very beginning has been about investing in voter engagement and voter turnout because we know that's the path way to success. >> how do you convince people and let's look at the 2016 election. a lot of people in the black community didn't come vote. is that right? >> here's the thing, registering voters is a critical part of building our electorate, but it's up to candidates to give voters a reason to exercise their right to vote. what we have seen happen too nauc often in the south is you do not have candidates that invest an amount in the voters who stay

home. they don't stay home because they don't want to vote. they stay home because they don't see a reason to vote. my campaign has been grounded from the beginning. it's going godoor to door. having conversations. if the governor can make sure they have money and access to transit. that they have access to health care. there's someone willing to talk to them about real issues. i have a younger brother who is an expolanfelon. i talk about the difficult transition to community. how hard it is to have a loved one incarcerated. for african-american voters and every voter at large, you want something to vote for. not just something to vote against. you have to have candidates who are willing to invest in your voice and say your issues matter too.

and that's what i've been doing and i will continue to do. >> you obviously very open talking about your own experiences and connecting with voters through your own human family professional experiences. so tell me what it's like to be an african-american woman in a, you know, white society. or at least a white sort of dominant society trying to get ahead. do you feel where you are now you get equal respect or is it more difficult than if you're a white man. >> that issue is the beginning of the conversation. of course there's not equality. there's challenges embedded in difference. the issue is do you allow the challenges to hold you down and paralyze you or do you use them at a catapult and i grew up believing that my differences are part of what make me capable of doing what i need to do. and we all experience this in

different ways. my mission is to create space 6789 there's a woman who wants to start a daycare program. doesn't think anyone would invest in her. she's the cashier at pigly wiggly grocery store. she needs to believe her capacity and opportunity is as great as any ceo. i want to be the governor who says no matter what your difference is, we believe in your capacity and potential that everyone should have the freedom and opportunity to thrive. >> you know, stacey, you have knocked down one door after the next. i still can't believe it. i'm literally having to read it in black and white, when you were a high school valedictorian and invited to the governor's mansion, you actually weren't allowed in. >> at first, the governor invited all valedictorians to come. my parents and i got on the public transit to get to the governor's mansion because my parents couldn't afford a car.

the security gate looked at us. looked at us and told us it with a private event and we didn't belong there. luckily my parents are very aggressive and they argued with them and he agreed to check checklist and let us inside. i don't remember meeting the governor. the governor had nothing to do with my denial. and i don't remember meeting my fellow valedictorians. what stuck with me was someone looking at me and looking at my circumstances and deciding i didn't belong in this most powerful place in georgia and i want to be the person who says those gates are open for everyone because no one should be denied access because of circumstances. you also speak about the power of education. that is the filler for anyone trying to make it. you're very open about the debt you've gotten into since being in your education. i mean, this is a terrible burden many, many americans have to shoulder as they try to come out into the world. >> parking lot t of the reason

hope, i try to be as honests and transparent as possible. we can't elect people for perfection. we have to elect people who understand real lives. who know what it means to navigate education debt. i'm also navigating the fact i'm financially responsible for my parents and for my niece who they're raising because my younger brother couldn't take care of her. my parents are taking care of my grandmother. she's now part of our generational home. we need people in leadership who understand how complicated life can be and that are willing to not only own their responsibility and help think about solutions for everyone. that's why i want this job. >> well, you certainly relate and you certainly understand. thank you so much for joining us tonight. if all the world's is stage as shakespeare said, then glenda jackson is one of the greatest actors to ever storm across it. bold and talented, earned two os kors for the drama women laugh

and another for a touch of class which is a comedy. >> in the past two days, picked up in the rain, given me tea. you ordered me to hide away with the intention of getting me into bed for what you so charmly call a quickie. is that a fair way to. >> why do women always think the worst. why does sex always have to be the first thing -- yes. >> in 1992, pivoted to politics and she was elected member of parliament here only to pivot back to acting again in 2015. no easy feet for a woman at the ripe old age of 80 and no easy co comeback. she played king leer to rave reviews and now at 82, she's taking broadway by storm. playing a sour 92-year-old on the verge of death in edward's masterpiece, three tall women. earned her a tony nomination.

glenda jackson discussed this with me as she joined m ed me f new york earlier in the week. >> glenda jackson, welcome to the program. >> thank you. i don't want to be indelicate, but you are a woman of a certain age. you are over 80 if i'm not mistaken and you're having resurgence of acting career. how do you feel doing this? >> well, i still concur with what you have just said. usually is only if there is one woman's part in certain as far as contemporary is concerned it seems to me. that has stayed the same in my experience ever since i first walked on to a stage and got paid for it. what is remarkable about this particular production is not only it's a great play, but there are three really good

women. three women's parts in it. one of the things attracted me most to doing it was the opportunity to work with actresses of the caliber of the two actresses i'm privileged to work with. >> she's a deck yade older thanu in the play. did you feel a bond with her. >> no, i felt a bond with what the author was trying to do, i think. which is to be almost -- well, not almost. painfully honest. a tragic relationship between himself and his adopted mother. he's absolutely up front about that, but the picks up into reven revenge. the last part of it, he says that during her lifetime, he never met anyone who liked her.

he's talking about his adopted mother. he never met anyone who had seen the play who disliked her. what have i done? it's all in that, isn't it. >> it really is. it sort of made me laugh a little bit. it is extraordinary if it's true that what he says about his adopted mother, she bought him from adoption agency for about $133 or something like that. >> $110 and she wanted the money back. >> and then apparently, he feels that she always wanted to give him back. is that right? >> there was clearly this endlessly dividing divisive truly i think in many instances cruel attempts to make a relationship which failed. i think clearly on both sides. i think she at some point clearly gave up on it. >> what does it mean for you to be back. you put your career willingly on hiatus for 20 years when you became a politician in england.

you were an mp -- >> there are people who regard being a member of parliament as a career. >> yes, yes, but -- i didn't. i meant acting career. you put your acting career on hiatus to take up another career. did you ever think when you decided not to run again you put politics aside that. three tall women. huge monumental plays and roles. >> it didn't occur to me. i remember saying to my girls in the office when i said i wouldn't stand at the 2015 election. to discover when you don't have work, your responsibility

increases. who gets you out of bed in the morning if you not. the bbc asked me to do a series on the radio. i was happy to do. they were great scripts. i did that. i was then asked by the old victor vic to do a play. leah came after that. i did it and now i'm doing three tall women. i'm very, very luckiy indeed. >> is it incredible you did it as a woman. >> you know one of the really interesting things about doing that incredible play, no one ever mentioned it. in a curious may, no one who commented on it made anything of that. there were forerunners in london of the gender bender ratio. marvelous productions. all women productions for

example are shakespeare's history. what i found interesting over and above the greatness of the play was when i was a member of parliame parliament, i would visit old people ho people's homes. day centers, things of that nature. one of the things that struck me most is how as we get older, as we get higher and higher up the age scale, the gender barriers start to fray. they become fractured. they're sort of foggy. the absolutes aren't there anymore. and that i found very useful when i was playing leer. it was interesting. >> actually that's very encouraging thought for us. coming up in those footstep of age. that's great. tell me about being a politician. did you employ your acting abilities, credentials, performing abilities in parliament? i mean, how much did that help you? was it unconscious?

>> it was never at forefront of my mind. what was not infrequently at the forefront of my mine was that years ago, there was a scientific exploration of what we as human beings fear most and apparently what we fear most is death. number two on the list is public speaking. i have that one covered. except when i rose to make my maiden speech in parliament, i had never been so frightened in my life. >> are you also took part in a tribute to margaret thatcher. yours was -- could i call it an anti-tribute. >> i hope i told the truth. i certainly told the truth as i had experienced it, as i had seen my constituents experience it. when i was first elected, she had long been evaluated to the other place. we call the house of lord. everything i had been taught to regard as advice she told me was

a virtue. selfness wasn't a vice. ensuring you can't feel self in your family. there was no such thing as society. >> can i just play it actually? i mean you -- of yours, we'll see you. >> okay. fine. >> we were told that everything i had been taught to regard as a vice and i still regard them as vices, under thatcherism was in fact a virtue. greed, selfishness, no care for the weaker. sharp elbows, sharp leads. they were the way forward. >> so a pretty bold and obviously you were true to yourself and true to your politics. how were you received in the chamber and did they know what you were going to say? did you have to sort of warn people what you were going to say. >> good heavens no. i was there. i wasn't guaranteed to be called. no one is guaranteed to be

called in that sense. certainly, i remember when i kicked off with what i was saying. there was a certain amount of barrac bar racking from the conservative benches. that died down. >> we're in the focus of so much women. many too, women running for office. women trying to really finally try to change the scales of inequity. would you call yourself a feminist. >> i think i would. in the sense of it being more than demonstrating your a feminist by burning your bra. i never burned a bra in my life because i don't wear them. if i could just cut to the bottom line about all of this as far as i'm concerned. i just say in the united kingdom. two women die every week at the hands of their partner. usually the male. we are deluding ourself ifs we think this movement that has arisen is going to transform the

lives for all women around the world overnight because it isn't. and we have to accept that the steps forward we are moving forward, but there are small steps at the moment. not giant strides, but we have to keep pushing for it. >> i want to go back to one of your earlier films. play a little clip of women in love. >> i don't know what you mean. >> yes, you do. you know very well that you have never loved me. have you, do you think? no. >> oh, that's so dramatic and so sad. does it take you back at all? i don't watch it. i don't like watching myself. i'm completely subjective about

seeing myself on film. i only look at myself really and think oh, my god, why did you choose to do that. all too late. there ain't nothing you can do to change it. >> you are quite known for being a it irascible and you did not accept any of your oscars, you got two oscars. one for that film and you didn't go to hollywood to pick them up. >> well, i was working. i couldn't go. i was extremely fortunate. i was employed and that is still a very fortunate position to be in if you're an actress. so no, i didn't. >> are you glad you got them? are you glad you get all the plau applauds and are you happy with the reviews and playing these amazing roles. >> i'm very happy we're playing two full houses. i'm very happy to be working with two remarkable actresses. i'm very happy with the way the audience listens and laughs and how we are clearly delivering. what is really remarkable play.

winners of the people who vote for you. that's nice for them and i've always very nice to have a present, but it doesn't make you any better. >> on that note, glenda jackson, thank you so much for joining us. >> pleasure talking to you. that's it for our program tonight. thanks for watching amanpour on pbs and join us again next time.

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